scottd007
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Posts โข 103
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October 2007
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Santas Ghetto = Bethlehem, by scottd007 on Dec 9, 2007 20:44:37 GMT 1, Craig - one of our mates travelling with us to the Ghetto had his Israeli arrival visa stamp right next to his Dubai stamp. No problem. I think the worst that would happen is a bit of questioning about the purpose of your visit to the UAE etc..
Craig - one of our mates travelling with us to the Ghetto had his Israeli arrival visa stamp right next to his Dubai stamp. No problem. I think the worst that would happen is a bit of questioning about the purpose of your visit to the UAE etc..
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Hoops
New Member
Posts โข 214
Likes โข 68
June 2006
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Santas Ghetto = Bethlehem, by Hoops on Dec 9, 2007 20:47:03 GMT 1, Got back last night and what a bunch of c&** the security at the airport are.....2.5 hours odd to clear customs 1 part strip search and loads of intimidating questions and posturing.
1st the good bits.
Some friends arrived Saturday morning so they met me at the hotel at 6.30am ( f.all sleep again ) and we went once again to Bethlehem, Saturday mornings the roads are empty due to the Sabbath etc so got there at around 8am, now this is the really weird bit:
The day before my taxi driver took me to the checkpoint and waited for me the israeli side whilst I went through a maze of walkways fences scanners and turnstiles .to cross into Palestine....Not really a problem as you just wave your majic burgundy passport and they wave you through.
Saturday however our taxi driver did a different route passing the checkpoint above a hill , did a U turn and then we all drove into Palestine up a back route , No checkpoints .......This still confuses me as what is the point of the major crossing if you can just come in the back route .
Anyway got through and then changed cabs into his friends whose a palestinain taxi driver.
We toured most of the wall getting out and taking photos etc, Went to the shepherds Inn and then had a falafal breakfast right by here......Highly recommended.
Did the Church again and then the Ghetto ( made a few more bids )
We then met up with a girl who took us to one of the refugue camps ...totally not what i had expected as they are all brick houses and not tents ( how ignorant of me) and then took us around some of the bits most tourists dont see ie the house that was bombed by an F16 and is just rubble etc we then eat at a smarmer/ kebab place across the road from where the soldier was shot the other day and didnt feel threatened at all. ...Alll quite sad and moving as they are so persecuted .
We then left through the main checkpoint (on foot) and met up with our israeli taxi driver again who took us to the airport.
On Entering the Airport the fun and games began....Pulled over and given a grilling about where we had come from etc As we didnt really give a fuck as we where leaving we told them we had come from Bethlehem and Santas Ghetto ,after numerous questions etc then let us through into the Airport grounds.
Went to check in more grilling.
Why where you there Why is your stay so short Did you visit any houses do you know anyone Did you drop off any bags
!5 minutes later I was allowed to go to check in ....Checked in and went to customs ( I only had Hand Luggage.0
CUSTOMS ARE A FUCKING NIGHTMARE .
As soon as you get through the metal detector and your bag comes through the scanner they then interview u again asking the same questions , they swab EVERYTHING for explosives In every nook and cranny and then let me through ....My 2 friends where right behind me so I waited why they got the same grilling .....for some reason they decided to call me back out again and marched us all back into the check in area where they tipped absolutely everything out of all the bags and swipe it all again they then go over it with a metal detector ...and then take the empty bag away and test it again...Now More questions:
Why did you buy a print how can you afford it how much do you earn how long have you know your friends whose house did you go to where is your other bag
BE AWARE THEY ARE ASKING YOUR FRIENDS THE SAME QUSTIONS ABOUT YOU AND THEN CHECKING THE ANSWERS .
They then took us all away to another room where we had to drop our trosers as the metal in the buttons on the fly was setting of the metal detector so that they could check for metal .
2.5 Hours later they marched us to the plane where everyone had boarded , took my phone charger from me and made me put my hand luggage in the hold.
THEY ARE A FUCKING NIGHTMARE ...BE PREPARED
Got back last night and what a bunch of c&** the security at the airport are.....2.5 hours odd to clear customs 1 part strip search and loads of intimidating questions and posturing. 1st the good bits. Some friends arrived Saturday morning so they met me at the hotel at 6.30am ( f.all sleep again ) and we went once again to Bethlehem, Saturday mornings the roads are empty due to the Sabbath etc so got there at around 8am, now this is the really weird bit: The day before my taxi driver took me to the checkpoint and waited for me the israeli side whilst I went through a maze of walkways fences scanners and turnstiles .to cross into Palestine....Not really a problem as you just wave your majic burgundy passport and they wave you through. Saturday however our taxi driver did a different route passing the checkpoint above a hill , did a U turn and then we all drove into Palestine up a back route , No checkpoints .......This still confuses me as what is the point of the major crossing if you can just come in the back route . Anyway got through and then changed cabs into his friends whose a palestinain taxi driver. We toured most of the wall getting out and taking photos etc, Went to the shepherds Inn and then had a falafal breakfast right by here......Highly recommended. Did the Church again and then the Ghetto ( made a few more bids ) We then met up with a girl who took us to one of the refugue camps ...totally not what i had expected as they are all brick houses and not tents ( how ignorant of me) and then took us around some of the bits most tourists dont see ie the house that was bombed by an F16 and is just rubble etc we then eat at a smarmer/ kebab place across the road from where the soldier was shot the other day and didnt feel threatened at all. ...Alll quite sad and moving as they are so persecuted . We then left through the main checkpoint (on foot) and met up with our israeli taxi driver again who took us to the airport. On Entering the Airport the fun and games began....Pulled over and given a grilling about where we had come from etc As we didnt really give a fuck as we where leaving we told them we had come from Bethlehem and Santas Ghetto ,after numerous questions etc then let us through into the Airport grounds. Went to check in more grilling. Why where you there Why is your stay so short Did you visit any houses do you know anyone Did you drop off any bags !5 minutes later I was allowed to go to check in ....Checked in and went to customs ( I only had Hand Luggage.0 CUSTOMS ARE A FUCKING NIGHTMARE . As soon as you get through the metal detector and your bag comes through the scanner they then interview u again asking the same questions , they swab EVERYTHING for explosives In every nook and cranny and then let me through ....My 2 friends where right behind me so I waited why they got the same grilling .....for some reason they decided to call me back out again and marched us all back into the check in area where they tipped absolutely everything out of all the bags and swipe it all again they then go over it with a metal detector ...and then take the empty bag away and test it again...Now More questions: Why did you buy a print how can you afford it how much do you earn how long have you know your friends whose house did you go to where is your other bag BE AWARE THEY ARE ASKING YOUR FRIENDS THE SAME QUSTIONS ABOUT YOU AND THEN CHECKING THE ANSWERS . They then took us all away to another room where we had to drop our trosers as the metal in the buttons on the fly was setting of the metal detector so that they could check for metal . 2.5 Hours later they marched us to the plane where everyone had boarded , took my phone charger from me and made me put my hand luggage in the hold. THEY ARE A FUCKING NIGHTMARE ...BE PREPARED
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Hoops
New Member
Posts โข 214
Likes โข 68
June 2006
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Santas Ghetto = Bethlehem, by Hoops on Dec 9, 2007 20:48:23 GMT 1, Oi
Als and scott I am watching U !!! and ED stop Lurking
Oi
Als and scott I am watching U !!! and ED stop Lurking
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Santas Ghetto = Bethlehem, by craigmccluskey on Dec 9, 2007 21:03:08 GMT 1, Thanks for the advice feel a wee bit more confident now although the wife is not to happy +1 to you all Cheers Craig
Thanks for the advice feel a wee bit more confident now although the wife is not to happy +1 to you all Cheers Craig
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Santas Ghetto = Bethlehem, by alsbabar on Dec 9, 2007 21:03:59 GMT 1, but Hoops, , and the laughs we had as mates and with the locals and the excitement of the adventure - totally worth going and of course getting a Trolley each!!
but Hoops, , and the laughs we had as mates and with the locals and the excitement of the adventure - totally worth going and of course getting a Trolley each!!
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Santas Ghetto = Bethlehem, by alsbabar on Dec 9, 2007 21:04:55 GMT 1, craigmc - you know whats in front of you now, so just go with a smile and come back with an adventure and one that you wont forget for along long time
craigmc - you know whats in front of you now, so just go with a smile and come back with an adventure and one that you wont forget for along long time
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twigboy
New Member
Posts โข 85
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March 2006
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Santas Ghetto = Bethlehem, by twigboy on Dec 9, 2007 21:07:50 GMT 1, As I said in an earlier post...
I was out there a few months ago, and this is how it works...
When you leave Bethlehem, you will go through a check point... they will want to see you passport, and will ask a few questions. Yeah... the Church of Nativity was great thanks... Short answers. That is the only thing the israel's would want you to see.
Then the next checkpoint you will go through is outside of the Airport... At this point you say you were staying in Telaviv on Holiday. the Girls were great, the beach was nice and I love your country... Yuck!... If you say you were staying in Jeruselum, then they will sticker your passport..., try and get an israel taxi driver, if not and you are with a palasinian driver, then make sure you both have your stories sorted, but you have never met the driver before, and your hotel booked the taxi for you... (never say you stayed in Bethlehem) then once in the airport, you will be questioned again... Once again, say Telaviv, Holiday, Beach was nice, clubs were great (Yuck!) and all should be good... its one of the most stringent security checks you will go though, but this is all part of the experience...
They do not want people to see what they are doing to the people of Bethlehem and palestine...
Israel's themselves can not even enter Bethlehem... and the people of Bethlehem and palestine are not allowed into Israel unless they have been given permisson by the Israel's
SO - Just don't mention at all you have been to Bethlehem, and you should have no problems. This will save you being stripped searched... and detained... all they want is to hassle you... and for you not to meet any palastinian people.
Good luck...
As I said in an earlier post...
I was out there a few months ago, and this is how it works...
When you leave Bethlehem, you will go through a check point... they will want to see you passport, and will ask a few questions. Yeah... the Church of Nativity was great thanks... Short answers. That is the only thing the israel's would want you to see.
Then the next checkpoint you will go through is outside of the Airport... At this point you say you were staying in Telaviv on Holiday. the Girls were great, the beach was nice and I love your country... Yuck!... If you say you were staying in Jeruselum, then they will sticker your passport..., try and get an israel taxi driver, if not and you are with a palasinian driver, then make sure you both have your stories sorted, but you have never met the driver before, and your hotel booked the taxi for you... (never say you stayed in Bethlehem) then once in the airport, you will be questioned again... Once again, say Telaviv, Holiday, Beach was nice, clubs were great (Yuck!) and all should be good... its one of the most stringent security checks you will go though, but this is all part of the experience...
They do not want people to see what they are doing to the people of Bethlehem and palestine...
Israel's themselves can not even enter Bethlehem... and the people of Bethlehem and palestine are not allowed into Israel unless they have been given permisson by the Israel's
SO - Just don't mention at all you have been to Bethlehem, and you should have no problems. This will save you being stripped searched... and detained... all they want is to hassle you... and for you not to meet any palastinian people.
Good luck...
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Santas Ghetto = Bethlehem, by ejvaze on Dec 9, 2007 21:29:36 GMT 1, I too find it shocking that they do not want people to see what they are doing to the people of Bethlehem and Palestine...
At our hotel in Tel Aviv they just laughed at us when I said I wanted to go to Bethlehem and said we should not bother as we would never get in. They told us the story that there were problems at the boarder and no one was being allowed in.
These were the ordinary Israelis telling us this, nothing to do with security. It seems there is a conspiracy to keep tourists away from Palestine and Bethlehem.
We did meet a few tourists in Bethlehem A group of Christian tourists from India, a very nice German who was wandering around on his own and when I told him about the ghetto he said he'd take a look. Some Chinese and some Arabs. All very interesting.
At the actual opening of the show I did hear a couple of American voices. I don't know who they were but they seemed not to know anything about the art and were just inquisitive to know what it was all about.
I met lot of locals and apart from the Exuberant Hamas celebrations with loud music flag waving and live gunfire being fired into the air the square was paritty deserted and quiet.
Whats really sad is it seems the Israeli's plan of in imprisonment and separation is working when it comes to tourism.
I too find it shocking that they do not want people to see what they are doing to the people of Bethlehem and Palestine...
At our hotel in Tel Aviv they just laughed at us when I said I wanted to go to Bethlehem and said we should not bother as we would never get in. They told us the story that there were problems at the boarder and no one was being allowed in.
These were the ordinary Israelis telling us this, nothing to do with security. It seems there is a conspiracy to keep tourists away from Palestine and Bethlehem.
We did meet a few tourists in Bethlehem A group of Christian tourists from India, a very nice German who was wandering around on his own and when I told him about the ghetto he said he'd take a look. Some Chinese and some Arabs. All very interesting.
At the actual opening of the show I did hear a couple of American voices. I don't know who they were but they seemed not to know anything about the art and were just inquisitive to know what it was all about.
I met lot of locals and apart from the Exuberant Hamas celebrations with loud music flag waving and live gunfire being fired into the air the square was paritty deserted and quiet.
Whats really sad is it seems the Israeli's plan of in imprisonment and separation is working when it comes to tourism.
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Santas Ghetto = Bethlehem, by finsburyparkranger on Dec 9, 2007 21:45:49 GMT 1,
Its amazing how the behavior of the Israel authorities are criminalising its forum visitors so quickly. Imagine living there and having to lie and get searched and being made to wait 3 hours everyday. Then imagine the Israel bulldozers coming to knock down your house to build a new Israel settlement on your land. If it was us, I wonder how long it would be until we started to organise a resistance?
Its amazing how the behavior of the Israel authorities are criminalising its forum visitors so quickly. Imagine living there and having to lie and get searched and being made to wait 3 hours everyday. Then imagine the Israel bulldozers coming to knock down your house to build a new Israel settlement on your land. If it was us, I wonder how long it would be until we started to organise a resistance?
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monstris
New Member
Posts โข 424
Likes โข 2
September 2006
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Santas Ghetto = Bethlehem, by monstris on Dec 9, 2007 21:48:53 GMT 1, I too find it shocking that they do not want people to see what they are doing to the people of Bethlehem and Palestine... At our hotel in Tel Aviv they just laughed at us when I said I wanted to go to Bethlehem and said we should not bother as we would never get in. They told us the story that there were problems at the boarder and no one was being allowed in. These were the ordinary Israelis telling us this, nothing to do with security. It seems there is a conspiracy to keep tourists away from Palestine and Bethlehem. We did meet a few tourists in Bethlehem A group of Christian tourists from India, a very nice German who was wandering around on his own and when I told him about the ghetto he said he'd take a look. Some Chinese and some Arabs. All very interesting. At the actual opening of the show I did hear a couple of American voices. I don't know who they were but they seemed not to know anything about the art and were just inquisitive to know what it was all about. I met lot of locals and apart from the Exuberant Hamas celebrations with loud music flag waving and live gunfire being fired into the air the square was paritty deserted and quiet. Whats really sad is it seems the Israeli's plan of in imprisonment and separation is working when it comes to tourism.
Your average Israeli couldn't give a toss about the conflict and knows what he's spoonfed through whatever media he chooses to read. If he's a Ha'aretz reader, he'll be a bit more aware of the world. Ynet...not so much.... The difference, to use an American analogy, between someone who watches Fox News and CBS News. There's not much in it, the view of the world is fairly insular unless it involves countries that "want to push Israel into the sea".
Fortunately, all my Israeli friends have excellent bullshit detectors and are cynical about both sides of the argument. Then again, all my Israeli friends are either journalists, aid workers, or psychiatrists.
Israelis love a good argument. Although you feel you have a point to make and really think you can win someone over thru the power of persuasion...don't try. You'll be on a flight back to London soon. They will have the rest of their lives to deal with living in what is effectively a military state. As an Israeli, you not only have to do national service at 18, you have to dedicate time every year of your life to the army. It's a country filled with army reserves. Refusing to go back will land you in jail. Look up the Refuseniks. You also get into a fair bit of shit if you lose your firearm...which is why you see a lot of young men in clubs with rifles strapped to their backs. You're brought up thinking and believing you are at war and that the whole world is plotting against you and your religion. So...if you feel like shooting your mouth off at an Israeli soldier, please think twice.
Oh...and the ones wearing yarmulkes (skull caps) are probably zealots and come from settlements and really like shooting people. Ladies...flirt with the boy guards. Boys...don't flirt with the boy guards...unless you're in Tel Aviv and in which case, you may get lucky.
You may bump into some black Israelis...they're likely to be Ethiopian. It's a sad fact that they're seen as beneath the Ashkenazi -- the ones from Eastern Europe -- by some Ashkenazi (namely the ones who made Aliyah from the United States). It's kind of a sub caste within a caste. Another is the Arab-Israeli minority. There's a lot of prejudice in that beautiful country. There's a lot of fire and a lot of passion too. Like seeing the beauty of workmanship in the gun that's about to shoot you.
I too find it shocking that they do not want people to see what they are doing to the people of Bethlehem and Palestine... At our hotel in Tel Aviv they just laughed at us when I said I wanted to go to Bethlehem and said we should not bother as we would never get in. They told us the story that there were problems at the boarder and no one was being allowed in. These were the ordinary Israelis telling us this, nothing to do with security. It seems there is a conspiracy to keep tourists away from Palestine and Bethlehem. We did meet a few tourists in Bethlehem A group of Christian tourists from India, a very nice German who was wandering around on his own and when I told him about the ghetto he said he'd take a look. Some Chinese and some Arabs. All very interesting. At the actual opening of the show I did hear a couple of American voices. I don't know who they were but they seemed not to know anything about the art and were just inquisitive to know what it was all about. I met lot of locals and apart from the Exuberant Hamas celebrations with loud music flag waving and live gunfire being fired into the air the square was paritty deserted and quiet. Whats really sad is it seems the Israeli's plan of in imprisonment and separation is working when it comes to tourism. Your average Israeli couldn't give a toss about the conflict and knows what he's spoonfed through whatever media he chooses to read. If he's a Ha'aretz reader, he'll be a bit more aware of the world. Ynet...not so much.... The difference, to use an American analogy, between someone who watches Fox News and CBS News. There's not much in it, the view of the world is fairly insular unless it involves countries that "want to push Israel into the sea". Fortunately, all my Israeli friends have excellent bullshit detectors and are cynical about both sides of the argument. Then again, all my Israeli friends are either journalists, aid workers, or psychiatrists. Israelis love a good argument. Although you feel you have a point to make and really think you can win someone over thru the power of persuasion...don't try. You'll be on a flight back to London soon. They will have the rest of their lives to deal with living in what is effectively a military state. As an Israeli, you not only have to do national service at 18, you have to dedicate time every year of your life to the army. It's a country filled with army reserves. Refusing to go back will land you in jail. Look up the Refuseniks. You also get into a fair bit of shit if you lose your firearm...which is why you see a lot of young men in clubs with rifles strapped to their backs. You're brought up thinking and believing you are at war and that the whole world is plotting against you and your religion. So...if you feel like shooting your mouth off at an Israeli soldier, please think twice. Oh...and the ones wearing yarmulkes (skull caps) are probably zealots and come from settlements and really like shooting people. Ladies...flirt with the boy guards. Boys...don't flirt with the boy guards...unless you're in Tel Aviv and in which case, you may get lucky. You may bump into some black Israelis...they're likely to be Ethiopian. It's a sad fact that they're seen as beneath the Ashkenazi -- the ones from Eastern Europe -- by some Ashkenazi (namely the ones who made Aliyah from the United States). It's kind of a sub caste within a caste. Another is the Arab-Israeli minority. There's a lot of prejudice in that beautiful country. There's a lot of fire and a lot of passion too. Like seeing the beauty of workmanship in the gun that's about to shoot you.
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twigboy
New Member
Posts โข 85
Likes โข 0
March 2006
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Santas Ghetto = Bethlehem, by twigboy on Dec 9, 2007 21:50:18 GMT 1, Rocks and stones are no match for F16's and an American funded, as they call it Security Wall...
Rocks and stones are no match for F16's and an American funded, as they call it Security Wall...
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Hoops
New Member
Posts โข 214
Likes โข 68
June 2006
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Santas Ghetto = Bethlehem, by Hoops on Dec 9, 2007 21:59:16 GMT 1, CNN VIDEO OF THE SHOW:
GGo to :
cnn.com and then search for "The art of graffit"
CNN VIDEO OF THE SHOW:
GGo to :
cnn.com and then search for "The art of graffit"
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Santas Ghetto = Bethlehem, by alsbabar on Dec 9, 2007 22:01:02 GMT 1, Whats really sad is it seems the Israeli's plan of in imprisonment and separation is working when it comes to tourism. in that statement you now know the purpose of having the SG in Bethlehem. This is not just an attempt by Israel to imprison a race of people, but also to imprison their minds and spirits and to crush hopes and dreams.
By giving us the opportunity to go out there and support POW's campaign, it is allowing us to have this conversation and to pass on the message of the Palestinian suffering.
Here are some interesting facts that you probably didnt know about the people of Bethlehem...... 70% of the population are under 18 years of age, 65% of the population are unemployed. When you look at in that context, then you know, what hope is there? When you see them smiling and still believing and taking the crap that Israel gives them each day......... you know there is still plenty of hope for a better life.
Whats really sad is it seems the Israeli's plan of in imprisonment and separation is working when it comes to tourism. in that statement you now know the purpose of having the SG in Bethlehem. This is not just an attempt by Israel to imprison a race of people, but also to imprison their minds and spirits and to crush hopes and dreams. By giving us the opportunity to go out there and support POW's campaign, it is allowing us to have this conversation and to pass on the message of the Palestinian suffering. Here are some interesting facts that you probably didnt know about the people of Bethlehem...... 70% of the population are under 18 years of age, 65% of the population are unemployed. When you look at in that context, then you know, what hope is there? When you see them smiling and still believing and taking the crap that Israel gives them each day......... you know there is still plenty of hope for a better life.
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monstris
New Member
Posts โข 424
Likes โข 2
September 2006
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Santas Ghetto = Bethlehem, by monstris on Dec 9, 2007 22:09:11 GMT 1, Ah and here's something you probably didn't know.... There was an outfit of black Jews who formed the Israeli Black Panthers. Blanket term for black Jews is Sephardim...though it's not technically correct. I can go into that later. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_Black_Panthers
But point is, welcome to a country with a bugger load of prejudice, fear, propaganda. Yet it still produces transvestite Eurovision stars. There's a lot of culture and a love of culture/religion/community around.
But what really gets me is the similarities between Jews and Arabs. They're both extremely passionate peoples...and the men who pull the strings on both sides are stubbornly convinced that they are right. Who gets screwed? Joe Bloggs.
It's my land...no it's my land...no it's my land...it's enough to make you pick up a black and red flag and adopt a dog on a string.
Ah and here's something you probably didn't know.... There was an outfit of black Jews who formed the Israeli Black Panthers. Blanket term for black Jews is Sephardim...though it's not technically correct. I can go into that later. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_Black_PanthersBut point is, welcome to a country with a bugger load of prejudice, fear, propaganda. Yet it still produces transvestite Eurovision stars. There's a lot of culture and a love of culture/religion/community around. But what really gets me is the similarities between Jews and Arabs. They're both extremely passionate peoples...and the men who pull the strings on both sides are stubbornly convinced that they are right. Who gets screwed? Joe Bloggs. It's my land...no it's my land...no it's my land...it's enough to make you pick up a black and red flag and adopt a dog on a string.
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stuey09
New Member
Posts โข 49
Likes โข 1
August 2008
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Santas Ghetto = Bethlehem, by stuey09 on Dec 9, 2007 22:16:44 GMT 1, That situation isn't confined to just Israel and Palestine though is it Monstris. It's world politics all over. However, putting a token positive slant on it, it has generated some fantastic art which has been created through protest as often as not.
That situation isn't confined to just Israel and Palestine though is it Monstris. It's world politics all over. However, putting a token positive slant on it, it has generated some fantastic art which has been created through protest as often as not.
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monstris
New Member
Posts โข 424
Likes โข 2
September 2006
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Santas Ghetto = Bethlehem, by monstris on Dec 9, 2007 22:24:45 GMT 1, Whats really sad is it seems the Israeli's plan of in imprisonment and separation is working when it comes to tourism. in that statement you now know the purpose of having the SG in Bethlehem. This is not just an attempt by Israel to imprison a race of people, but also to imprison their minds and spirits and to crush hopes and dreams. By giving us the opportunity to go out there and support POW's campaign, it is allowing us to have this conversation and to pass on the message of the Palestinian suffering. Here are some interesting facts that you probably didnt know about the people of Bethlehem...... 70% of the population are under 18 years of age, 65% of the population are unemployed. When you look at in that context, then you know, what hope is there? When you see them smiling and still believing and taking the crap that Israel gives them each day......... you know there is still plenty of hope for a better life.
If you really want to get pissed off, head straight from Bethlehem.... Don't go to the King David in J'lem. Drive around the Occupied Territories and look out for settlement towns. Go north of Ramallah. Ariel is one of the biggest settlement towns. Then head back to a Palestinian town. You get more than you ask for in the anger stakes that way.
Check this: go.ariel.muni.il/ariel/en/
And compare with this: www.nablus.org/default.asp
(note the ticker)
So...Israeli/Palestinian graff off anyone?
Note: If you go to the top of the Mount of Olives in J'lem a man will ask you to pay for a picture with his camel. If you say no, he will try to sell you hash. Never fails.
Whats really sad is it seems the Israeli's plan of in imprisonment and separation is working when it comes to tourism. in that statement you now know the purpose of having the SG in Bethlehem. This is not just an attempt by Israel to imprison a race of people, but also to imprison their minds and spirits and to crush hopes and dreams. By giving us the opportunity to go out there and support POW's campaign, it is allowing us to have this conversation and to pass on the message of the Palestinian suffering. Here are some interesting facts that you probably didnt know about the people of Bethlehem...... 70% of the population are under 18 years of age, 65% of the population are unemployed. When you look at in that context, then you know, what hope is there? When you see them smiling and still believing and taking the crap that Israel gives them each day......... you know there is still plenty of hope for a better life. If you really want to get pissed off, head straight from Bethlehem.... Don't go to the King David in J'lem. Drive around the Occupied Territories and look out for settlement towns. Go north of Ramallah. Ariel is one of the biggest settlement towns. Then head back to a Palestinian town. You get more than you ask for in the anger stakes that way. Check this: go.ariel.muni.il/ariel/en/And compare with this: www.nablus.org/default.asp(note the ticker) So...Israeli/Palestinian graff off anyone? Note: If you go to the top of the Mount of Olives in J'lem a man will ask you to pay for a picture with his camel. If you say no, he will try to sell you hash. Never fails.
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Santas Ghetto = Bethlehem, by craigmccluskey on Dec 9, 2007 22:34:33 GMT 1, great thanks all !!
great thanks all !!
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monstris
New Member
Posts โข 424
Likes โข 2
September 2006
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Santas Ghetto = Bethlehem, by monstris on Dec 9, 2007 22:44:04 GMT 1, Oh...and bring a packet or two of Dioralyte...in the event you get the runs.
Oh...and bring a packet or two of Dioralyte...in the event you get the runs.
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'bric
New Member
Posts โข 197
Likes โข 50
May 2006
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Santas Ghetto = Bethlehem, by 'bric on Dec 9, 2007 22:53:35 GMT 1, Can someone let me know when the Ghetto gallery closes please.
Can someone let me know when the Ghetto gallery closes please.
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ray
New Member
Posts โข 388
Likes โข 0
June 2007
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Santas Ghetto = Bethlehem, by ray on Dec 9, 2007 22:56:11 GMT 1, While not defending any one person or country I think it's important to remember that there are good and bad people in all countries. I'm an American and while I'm certainly aware of my country's role and reputation in international politics, I always find it refreshing when traveling that 99% of people understand the difference between a country's politics and the people that live there.
I'd hate to see this turn into an Israeli (as in the average joe that lives there) bashing thread.
While not defending any one person or country I think it's important to remember that there are good and bad people in all countries. I'm an American and while I'm certainly aware of my country's role and reputation in international politics, I always find it refreshing when traveling that 99% of people understand the difference between a country's politics and the people that live there.
I'd hate to see this turn into an Israeli (as in the average joe that lives there) bashing thread.
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Santas Ghetto = Bethlehem, by finsburyparkranger on Dec 9, 2007 23:22:49 GMT 1, While not defending any one person or country I think it's important to remember that there are good and bad people in all countries. I'm an American and while I'm certainly aware of my country's role and reputation in international politics, I always find it refreshing when traveling that 99% of people understand the difference between a country's politics and the people that live there. I'd hate to see this turn into an Israeli (as in the average joe that lives there) bashing thread.
I appreciate your call for measured and respectful debate. Its only people with cool heads that will help resolve the conflict and fair play to you for your post ... however rarely have people used the word 'Israeli' when being critical of the political situation. All I heard was people condemning the actions of 'Israel' or the 'authorities'. Furthermore when criticism has been levied towards the other way it has been the 'Arabs' that were supposedly to blame not 'Palestine' or the 'authorities'.
While not defending any one person or country I think it's important to remember that there are good and bad people in all countries. I'm an American and while I'm certainly aware of my country's role and reputation in international politics, I always find it refreshing when traveling that 99% of people understand the difference between a country's politics and the people that live there. I'd hate to see this turn into an Israeli (as in the average joe that lives there) bashing thread. I appreciate your call for measured and respectful debate. Its only people with cool heads that will help resolve the conflict and fair play to you for your post ... however rarely have people used the word 'Israeli' when being critical of the political situation. All I heard was people condemning the actions of 'Israel' or the 'authorities'. Furthermore when criticism has been levied towards the other way it has been the 'Arabs' that were supposedly to blame not 'Palestine' or the 'authorities'.
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Santas Ghetto = Bethlehem, by alsbabar on Dec 9, 2007 23:38:54 GMT 1, however rarely have people used the word 'Israeli' when being critical of the political situation. All I heard was people condemning the actions of 'Israel' or the 'authorities'. Furthermore when criticism has been levied towards the other way it has been the 'Arabs' that were supposedly to blame not 'Palestine' or the 'authorities'. [/quote totally agree here with you FPR, no one is "Israeli" bashing, as I dont believe everyone agrees with the action of the authorities, however when it goes the other way, it is "Arab" bashing. One of the most disturbing images I recall of my visit, was when going through the Checkpoint at Bethlehem. You have a process of being shuffled through a barriered pathway, all the time being watched on CCTV, then you get to a turnstile, where you have to wait for the light to go Green so you can go through. Once through you then have to place all your belongings through a metal detector, once through, Palestinians then have to BIOMETRICALLY have their hands read, prior to that, they have to show permission papers to an 18 year old solider, who sits behind bullet proof glass, who doesnt give a shit about them. If that isnt disturbing enough, if its not the CCTV's that doesnt make you feel awkward, its the stations above you, where army personell stand with guns monitoring you!!
however rarely have people used the word 'Israeli' when being critical of the political situation. All I heard was people condemning the actions of 'Israel' or the 'authorities'. Furthermore when criticism has been levied towards the other way it has been the 'Arabs' that were supposedly to blame not 'Palestine' or the 'authorities'. [/quote totally agree here with you FPR, no one is "Israeli" bashing, as I dont believe everyone agrees with the action of the authorities, however when it goes the other way, it is "Arab" bashing. One of the most disturbing images I recall of my visit, was when going through the Checkpoint at Bethlehem. You have a process of being shuffled through a barriered pathway, all the time being watched on CCTV, then you get to a turnstile, where you have to wait for the light to go Green so you can go through. Once through you then have to place all your belongings through a metal detector, once through, Palestinians then have to BIOMETRICALLY have their hands read, prior to that, they have to show permission papers to an 18 year old solider, who sits behind bullet proof glass, who doesnt give a shit about them. If that isnt disturbing enough, if its not the CCTV's that doesnt make you feel awkward, its the stations above you, where army personell stand with guns monitoring you!!
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Santas Ghetto = Bethlehem, by valeha on Dec 9, 2007 23:41:07 GMT 1, ray you're right, debate should be focused around politics not people, but I think FPR is right, as far as I'm aware no one has been 'Israeli bashing'. If I'm wrong then I'm sorry about that - it is wrong simple as that.
I know I made a comment about crazy gun toting 16 year olds, but I think that kids and guns don't go together in any country...in Israel there area hell of a lot of them! It was not a dig at Israelis merely stating that some of those kids seem a little trigger happy.
V
ray you're right, debate should be focused around politics not people, but I think FPR is right, as far as I'm aware no one has been 'Israeli bashing'. If I'm wrong then I'm sorry about that - it is wrong simple as that.
I know I made a comment about crazy gun toting 16 year olds, but I think that kids and guns don't go together in any country...in Israel there area hell of a lot of them! It was not a dig at Israelis merely stating that some of those kids seem a little trigger happy.
V
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Santas Ghetto = Bethlehem, by shogun on Dec 10, 2007 0:41:00 GMT 1, Hey alsbabar cant quite get the link to your pics working. Can you put it up again please
Hey alsbabar cant quite get the link to your pics working. Can you put it up again please
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Santas Ghetto = Bethlehem, by valeha on Dec 10, 2007 0:44:20 GMT 1, hey shogun, cut and paste the link, it should work.
hey shogun, cut and paste the link, it should work.
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Santas Ghetto = Bethlehem, by shogun on Dec 10, 2007 11:52:21 GMT 1, hey shogun, cut and paste the link, it should work.
Thanks for that - sometimes the simplest solutions work
hey shogun, cut and paste the link, it should work. Thanks for that - sometimes the simplest solutions work
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kiy
New Member
Posts โข 240
Likes โข 0
August 2007
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Santas Ghetto = Bethlehem, by kiy on Dec 10, 2007 14:50:05 GMT 1, While not defending any one person or country I think it's important to remember that there are good and bad people in all countries. I'm an American and while I'm certainly aware of my country's role and reputation in international politics, I always find it refreshing when traveling that 99% of people understand the difference between a country's politics and the people that live there. I'd hate to see this turn into an Israeli (as in the average joe that lives there) bashing thread.
People from every country are not the same.....some intresting reading from the BBc News wesite today...
news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/7136068.stm
While not defending any one person or country I think it's important to remember that there are good and bad people in all countries. I'm an American and while I'm certainly aware of my country's role and reputation in international politics, I always find it refreshing when traveling that 99% of people understand the difference between a country's politics and the people that live there. I'd hate to see this turn into an Israeli (as in the average joe that lives there) bashing thread. People from every country are not the same.....some intresting reading from the BBc News wesite today... news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/7136068.stm
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Santas Ghetto = Bethlehem, by valeha on Dec 10, 2007 18:20:27 GMT 1, ok call me slow, but you know the banksy dove, is there hard to make out arabic writing on the left wing? I can read basic arabic, ie when it's not all nice and arty, but I can't make out any words, but can see some vague letters.
Has this already been pointed out?
(oh and if is, cam someone tell me what it says)
Thanks
V
ok call me slow, but you know the banksy dove, is there hard to make out arabic writing on the left wing? I can read basic arabic, ie when it's not all nice and arty, but I can't make out any words, but can see some vague letters.
Has this already been pointed out?
(oh and if is, cam someone tell me what it says)
Thanks
V
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Santas Ghetto = Bethlehem, by corblimeylimey on Dec 10, 2007 19:05:14 GMT 1, While not defending any one person or country I think it's important to remember that there are good and bad people in all countries. I'm an American and while I'm certainly aware of my country's role and reputation in international politics, I always find it refreshing when traveling that 99% of people understand the difference between a country's politics and the people that live there. I'd hate to see this turn into an Israeli (as in the average joe that lives there) bashing thread.
Nearly always the case isn't it, I'm sure Cubans are really nice people, but America (not Americans) won't do business with them. I'm sure your average Iraqi, or Iranian is fine too, the world over humans are much of a muchness, some good, some bad/criminal it's government decisions that cause the most trouble. You must bear in mind that in most countries it's the population that chooses the government, but often this isn't a real free choice, the political systems don't always work, take the US as an example, it seems you only have two political parties (right wing & slightly less right wing ;D), that it also seems that to be in politics in the U.S you need to be very very wealthy, all the presidents are millionaires.
As I said before this thread and peoples opinions aren't a racist view about Jews, it's more concerning The Israeli authorities and possibly certain Israeli's who think they have a right or should occupy Palestinian land with their settlements.
While not defending any one person or country I think it's important to remember that there are good and bad people in all countries. I'm an American and while I'm certainly aware of my country's role and reputation in international politics, I always find it refreshing when traveling that 99% of people understand the difference between a country's politics and the people that live there. I'd hate to see this turn into an Israeli (as in the average joe that lives there) bashing thread. Nearly always the case isn't it, I'm sure Cubans are really nice people, but America (not Americans) won't do business with them. I'm sure your average Iraqi, or Iranian is fine too, the world over humans are much of a muchness, some good, some bad/criminal it's government decisions that cause the most trouble. You must bear in mind that in most countries it's the population that chooses the government, but often this isn't a real free choice, the political systems don't always work, take the US as an example, it seems you only have two political parties (right wing & slightly less right wing ;D), that it also seems that to be in politics in the U.S you need to be very very wealthy, all the presidents are millionaires. As I said before this thread and peoples opinions aren't a racist view about Jews, it's more concerning The Israeli authorities and possibly certain Israeli's who think they have a right or should occupy Palestinian land with their settlements.
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BONGO
Junior Member
Posts โข 1,004
Likes โข 11
February 2007
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Santas Ghetto = Bethlehem, by BONGO on Dec 10, 2007 20:43:54 GMT 1, ISRAEL HAS WEIGHTED DEMOCRATIC MODEL TO AVOID DOMINEERING TENDANCIES, HENCE THE UBUIQUITY OF HUNG KNESSET AND ENDLESS CHANGES OF RULING PARTIES.
WITHIN ISRAEL, THERE ARE A GAMUT OF POLITICAL PARTIES FROM LEFT TO EXTREME RIGHT.
MEDIA ALSO RANGES FROM RIGHT THRO TO HAA'RETZ LEFT/ LIBERAL PUBLICATION
BONGO THINK THAT ISRAEL HAS A FAR WIDER RANGE WITHIN ITS POLITCAL SPECTRUM THAN USA.
BONGO ALSO KNOW THAT NOT EVERYONE IN ISRAEL SUPPORTS HARD LINE TACTICS AND POLICES
ISRAEL HAS WEIGHTED DEMOCRATIC MODEL TO AVOID DOMINEERING TENDANCIES, HENCE THE UBUIQUITY OF HUNG KNESSET AND ENDLESS CHANGES OF RULING PARTIES.
WITHIN ISRAEL, THERE ARE A GAMUT OF POLITICAL PARTIES FROM LEFT TO EXTREME RIGHT.
MEDIA ALSO RANGES FROM RIGHT THRO TO HAA'RETZ LEFT/ LIBERAL PUBLICATION
BONGO THINK THAT ISRAEL HAS A FAR WIDER RANGE WITHIN ITS POLITCAL SPECTRUM THAN USA.
BONGO ALSO KNOW THAT NOT EVERYONE IN ISRAEL SUPPORTS HARD LINE TACTICS AND POLICES
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