iamzero
Full Member
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May 2011
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Should we accept flipping on this forum , by iamzero on Dec 20, 2016 1:24:32 GMT 1, This happens quite a lot if you search posters recent threads. At least one member frequently deleted his posts and changed his name so the trail wouldn't show and finally admitted to being a trader.
This happens quite a lot if you search posters recent threads. At least one member frequently deleted his posts and changed his name so the trail wouldn't show and finally admitted to being a trader.
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eskay
New Member
Posts โข 392
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May 2012
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Should we accept flipping on this forum , by eskay on Dec 20, 2016 10:00:08 GMT 1, Doesn't really bother me to be fair. Supply & demand.
Doesn't really bother me to be fair. Supply & demand.
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pcant
Junior Member
Posts โข 1,669
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July 2010
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Should we accept flipping on this forum , by pcant on Dec 21, 2016 23:05:20 GMT 1, My two cents: If you don't want flippers to proliferate on this board, don't do business with them. I admit to being frustrated as well when people use technology to corner the market, drive up prices and then realize a massive profit on someone else's actual work. That having been said, you'll never be able to stop that with technology or shame. Greed will always win out. However, nothing is better than going to a concert and seeing scalpers out front getting rogered because no one is buying their inflated tickets and they have to dump them for a loss. With that in mind: If you don't pay flippers, they'll stop flipping. And remember: It's just a bit of ink on paper.
<endrant>
My two cents: If you don't want flippers to proliferate on this board, don't do business with them. I admit to being frustrated as well when people use technology to corner the market, drive up prices and then realize a massive profit on someone else's actual work. That having been said, you'll never be able to stop that with technology or shame. Greed will always win out. However, nothing is better than going to a concert and seeing scalpers out front getting rogered because no one is buying their inflated tickets and they have to dump them for a loss. With that in mind: If you don't pay flippers, they'll stop flipping. And remember: It's just a bit of ink on paper.
<endrant>
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Deleted
Posts โข 0
Likes โข
January 1970
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Should we accept flipping on this forum , by Deleted on Dec 21, 2016 23:37:35 GMT 1, It makes no difference to me if people flip on here.
I didn't get the animosity towards FR and the Harrington piccy for sale.
It makes no difference to me if people flip on here.
I didn't get the animosity towards FR and the Harrington piccy for sale.
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anodyne13
New Member
Posts โข 432
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April 2008
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Should we accept flipping on this forum , by anodyne13 on Dec 22, 2016 2:15:47 GMT 1, Here's my take on flipping:
1. The only reason flipping exists is because a product is sold for less than market value. So the easiest way to eliminate flipping of art would be for producers to sell it all at market value (They could do this through a treasury type auction). So ask yourself if you would be happy paying true market prices for all art that is released. Maybe you would, I anticipate a lot of belly aching.
2. If there was no flipping of art releases, you would never be able to buy one if you missed out, or you would have to wait a period of time before you do and maybe demand and thus the price has increased even more during that time.
3. Most people are narcissistic and believe that if the flipper did not buy the art they wanted, they would have been able to purchase it. With underpriced goods, there would most likely have still been a lot of competition with many people who desired the item even if they did not want to flip it.
4. The more flippers that buy an item the lower the price will be for people that want to purchase it in the secondary market. Imagine the next Banksy release of a 500 print run with 100 flippers purchasing and wanting to sell vs. 1 flipper purchasing and wanting to sell.
5. The flippers provide a service to those that do not want to travel, wait in line, F5 etc. I know I've purchased some prints from flippers that in order to obtain would have required me to pay for a trip overseas, hotel, wait in line for hours etc..
6. Ultimately flippers are a very good thing to have for art buyers and thus this marketplace. People just get upset because they have to pay more for a product that was priced under the market and they wrongfully think that a particular flipper took a product that would have been theirs.
Here's my take on flipping:
1. The only reason flipping exists is because a product is sold for less than market value. So the easiest way to eliminate flipping of art would be for producers to sell it all at market value (They could do this through a treasury type auction). So ask yourself if you would be happy paying true market prices for all art that is released. Maybe you would, I anticipate a lot of belly aching.
2. If there was no flipping of art releases, you would never be able to buy one if you missed out, or you would have to wait a period of time before you do and maybe demand and thus the price has increased even more during that time.
3. Most people are narcissistic and believe that if the flipper did not buy the art they wanted, they would have been able to purchase it. With underpriced goods, there would most likely have still been a lot of competition with many people who desired the item even if they did not want to flip it.
4. The more flippers that buy an item the lower the price will be for people that want to purchase it in the secondary market. Imagine the next Banksy release of a 500 print run with 100 flippers purchasing and wanting to sell vs. 1 flipper purchasing and wanting to sell.
5. The flippers provide a service to those that do not want to travel, wait in line, F5 etc. I know I've purchased some prints from flippers that in order to obtain would have required me to pay for a trip overseas, hotel, wait in line for hours etc..
6. Ultimately flippers are a very good thing to have for art buyers and thus this marketplace. People just get upset because they have to pay more for a product that was priced under the market and they wrongfully think that a particular flipper took a product that would have been theirs.
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Whitefish
Artist
Junior Member
Posts โข 2,248
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February 2015
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Should we accept flipping on this forum , by Whitefish on Dec 22, 2016 3:01:51 GMT 1, Shepard Fairey addressed this today on his latest IG post
http://instagram.com/p/BOSjdlahffT The link in his bio reads as follows
EBAY POLICY
EBAY'ers and EBAY Flippers are not welcomed. If suspected and caught of Ebaying prints your order will be automatically refunded and you will no longer be permitted to purchase from OBEY GIANT.
Shepard and the rest of us at OBEY are overwhelmed by the stories we hear about how much people are paying for prints on EBAY the same day as they are released on our site. We are, like most people, are disheartened and disgusted with the situation. We are taking responsibility for the Ebay situation and have taken action against those who simply purchase prints to instantly auction on Ebay for the highest price. There is a difference between a print collector who purchases a print, archives it for months, years even, then decides to barter or sell a piece with the intention of getting more cherished artwork THAN a "collector" who purchases a print then has it posted on Ebay before the print is actually received in hand or the moment they receive it the mail. We do believe such action is wrong and unjust AND we stand by what we believe and are proud of our mission to keep OBEY accessible to all.
A Message from Shepard to Ebay Flippers:
Dear Ebayer,
I think it is great that you are speaking your mind, but you are misplacing your frustration about the Obey Ebay policy. You fail to understand that my Ebay policy exists precisely to protect my valued supporters from having to pay high secondary market prices for my prints. My prints are priced well below market value because I want them to be affordable to true fans of my art. I have no problem with people collecting my prints and selling older prints to free up funds to purchase newer prints they prefer. However, some people buy the prints just to re-sell them on Ebay immediately. I call these people "flippers" and they keep a true fan of the piece from being able to purchase it at a low price. YOU are displacing people who want to keep, and not re-sell the art. For every letter like yours, I receive five that are complaints that people really loved and wanted a particular print, but it sold out too quickly. YOU force those people to buy on Ebay at a higher price. My goal is to make my work affordable to people who intend to keep the art. I am sacrificing a huge amount of money I could be making by selling the prints below market value. I do that for the people. I was broke throughout my twenties but I wanted to collect art, so I'm trying to provide that for people now. There are a lot of other supporters I'm trying to take into consideration as well. Your perspective is very selfish. Your thoughts about your "hard earned" money is very interesting. Is flipping a print on Ebay for triple, quadruple, or more of what you spent on it "hard earned"? Where were you with a financial subsidy for me in the 90's when I slept in my car in Boston or went literally without food or heat in Providence R.I. because I was pursuing my art, but failing to make enough money? I snuck free copies to make posters at Kinko's, but do you think if I got caught I would have said "but I'm entitled to free shit because I'm an artist who has it tough"? So you work 60 hours a week... so do I, if not more. I built what I have from a $4.25 an hour skate shop job. I treat everyone fairly. I checked into your Ebay record to make sure you were not banned unfairly, and you have flipped multiple prints the week after their release before the print has even been shipped to you. For each one of those, YOU made someone else suffer. Basically, you are sensitive to your own suffering, but not to the suffering of others. Oh, and the ban policy is not based on anything other than someone being a flipper. Yes, I do believe in freedom. You are free to buy and sell whatever you want, and I am free to choose not to sell MY creations to you. Of course, you are still free to buy my work on the secondary market like you have forced others to do. There are people who will cherish a reasonably priced piece of my art and they are my priority.
Sincerely, Shepard Fairey
Shepard Fairey addressed this today on his latest IG post http://instagram.com/p/BOSjdlahffT The link in his bio reads as follows EBAY POLICY EBAY'ers and EBAY Flippers are not welcomed. If suspected and caught of Ebaying prints your order will be automatically refunded and you will no longer be permitted to purchase from OBEY GIANT. Shepard and the rest of us at OBEY are overwhelmed by the stories we hear about how much people are paying for prints on EBAY the same day as they are released on our site. We are, like most people, are disheartened and disgusted with the situation. We are taking responsibility for the Ebay situation and have taken action against those who simply purchase prints to instantly auction on Ebay for the highest price. There is a difference between a print collector who purchases a print, archives it for months, years even, then decides to barter or sell a piece with the intention of getting more cherished artwork THAN a "collector" who purchases a print then has it posted on Ebay before the print is actually received in hand or the moment they receive it the mail. We do believe such action is wrong and unjust AND we stand by what we believe and are proud of our mission to keep OBEY accessible to all. A Message from Shepard to Ebay Flippers: Dear Ebayer, I think it is great that you are speaking your mind, but you are misplacing your frustration about the Obey Ebay policy. You fail to understand that my Ebay policy exists precisely to protect my valued supporters from having to pay high secondary market prices for my prints. My prints are priced well below market value because I want them to be affordable to true fans of my art. I have no problem with people collecting my prints and selling older prints to free up funds to purchase newer prints they prefer. However, some people buy the prints just to re-sell them on Ebay immediately. I call these people "flippers" and they keep a true fan of the piece from being able to purchase it at a low price. YOU are displacing people who want to keep, and not re-sell the art. For every letter like yours, I receive five that are complaints that people really loved and wanted a particular print, but it sold out too quickly. YOU force those people to buy on Ebay at a higher price. My goal is to make my work affordable to people who intend to keep the art. I am sacrificing a huge amount of money I could be making by selling the prints below market value. I do that for the people. I was broke throughout my twenties but I wanted to collect art, so I'm trying to provide that for people now. There are a lot of other supporters I'm trying to take into consideration as well. Your perspective is very selfish. Your thoughts about your "hard earned" money is very interesting. Is flipping a print on Ebay for triple, quadruple, or more of what you spent on it "hard earned"? Where were you with a financial subsidy for me in the 90's when I slept in my car in Boston or went literally without food or heat in Providence R.I. because I was pursuing my art, but failing to make enough money? I snuck free copies to make posters at Kinko's, but do you think if I got caught I would have said "but I'm entitled to free shit because I'm an artist who has it tough"? So you work 60 hours a week... so do I, if not more. I built what I have from a $4.25 an hour skate shop job. I treat everyone fairly. I checked into your Ebay record to make sure you were not banned unfairly, and you have flipped multiple prints the week after their release before the print has even been shipped to you. For each one of those, YOU made someone else suffer. Basically, you are sensitive to your own suffering, but not to the suffering of others. Oh, and the ban policy is not based on anything other than someone being a flipper. Yes, I do believe in freedom. You are free to buy and sell whatever you want, and I am free to choose not to sell MY creations to you. Of course, you are still free to buy my work on the secondary market like you have forced others to do. There are people who will cherish a reasonably priced piece of my art and they are my priority. Sincerely, Shepard Fairey
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bentheartfan
New Member
Posts โข 595
Likes โข 500
June 2016
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Should we accept flipping on this forum , by bentheartfan on Dec 22, 2016 3:26:32 GMT 1, Gotta love Shep !
Gotta love Shep !
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iamzero
Full Member
Posts โข 9,190
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May 2011
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Should we accept flipping on this forum , by iamzero on Dec 22, 2016 10:11:49 GMT 1, I managed to get one of the latest letterpress ones. Never managed to before.
I managed to get one of the latest letterpress ones. Never managed to before.
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gambas
New Member
Posts โข 44
Likes โข 40
February 2013
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Should we accept flipping on this forum , by gambas on Dec 22, 2016 11:22:50 GMT 1, investment or flipping, just a time question....I really love this forum cause all people share their love for art. If UAA accept flipping, for me is like legitim it and so perhaps i will flipp (but I wish not). I have never sell a piece of my collection and when i bought thinking of money (LSD invader print for example) I told me never do that again and buy only what I really like. I know art is link to money but Art have to be the main. I think it's a really really bad thing accept flippers, this bring discords to the forum. Flippers can create their own forum perhaps or find a sneaker forum and buy bot...
investment or flipping, just a time question....I really love this forum cause all people share their love for art. If UAA accept flipping, for me is like legitim it and so perhaps i will flipp (but I wish not). I have never sell a piece of my collection and when i bought thinking of money (LSD invader print for example) I told me never do that again and buy only what I really like. I know art is link to money but Art have to be the main. I think it's a really really bad thing accept flippers, this bring discords to the forum. Flippers can create their own forum perhaps or find a sneaker forum and buy bot...
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agu
New Member
Posts โข 317
Likes โข 332
February 2016
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Should we accept flipping on this forum , by agu on Dec 22, 2016 17:38:07 GMT 1, Ok A compromise. Allow flipping but flippers are expected to donate 20% of profits to a charity, and show a screen grab of the donation.
Alternatively the guardians could report them to to HMRC, I am sure the sales would attract capital gains taxes...
Ok A compromise. Allow flipping but flippers are expected to donate 20% of profits to a charity, and show a screen grab of the donation.
Alternatively the guardians could report them to to HMRC, I am sure the sales would attract capital gains taxes...
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sugar72
Junior Member
Posts โข 2,379
Likes โข 1,817
August 2016
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Should we accept flipping on this forum , by sugar72 on Dec 22, 2016 19:31:54 GMT 1, CGT a difficult area! Would affect more serious buyers of high value Banksy like pieces, and so would serve not much purpose for flippers who are generally selling under what I believe is a threshold
CGT a difficult area! Would affect more serious buyers of high value Banksy like pieces, and so would serve not much purpose for flippers who are generally selling under what I believe is a threshold
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Should we accept flipping on this forum , by thuglifecrunk187 on Dec 23, 2016 7:43:46 GMT 1, you've lost the war! there is no world with non flipping involved.
you've lost the war! there is no world with non flipping involved.
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agu
New Member
Posts โข 317
Likes โข 332
February 2016
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Should we accept flipping on this forum , by agu on Dec 23, 2016 12:09:53 GMT 1, you've lost the war! there is no world with non flipping involved. You are right. Sadly. But the same is true of crime and simple rudeness. Just because they exist it doesn't mean it's OK, nice or we should do it.
At the end of the day it befalls to those who care to set the example and hope others will follow. I have never flipped and never will. If I buy a new print that the art police then rejects, I will offer at cost or will donate the profit to charity.
Peace love and unicorns.
you've lost the war! there is no world with non flipping involved. You are right. Sadly. But the same is true of crime and simple rudeness. Just because they exist it doesn't mean it's OK, nice or we should do it. At the end of the day it befalls to those who care to set the example and hope others will follow. I have never flipped and never will. If I buy a new print that the art police then rejects, I will offer at cost or will donate the profit to charity. Peace love and unicorns.
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