Gentle Mental
Junior Member
Posts โข 2,798
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May 2007
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Big transactions how are they done on forum?, by Gentle Mental on Dec 19, 2017 4:35:50 GMT 1, Been seeing quite a bit of sales over 5000 pounds on the forum. How was it done? Seller couldโve taken the cash and run or buyers couldโve taken the art and claim empty tube - stopping paypal payment. Just want to know what is the best way forward? Donโt think itโs any safer on the bay, though.
Any tips from experienced buyer sellers? Or links to similar thread? Thanks.
G
Been seeing quite a bit of sales over 5000 pounds on the forum. How was it done? Seller couldโve taken the cash and run or buyers couldโve taken the art and claim empty tube - stopping paypal payment. Just want to know what is the best way forward? Donโt think itโs any safer on the bay, though.
Any tips from experienced buyer sellers? Or links to similar thread? Thanks.
G
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andyroo0312
Junior Member
Posts โข 2,174
Likes โข 1,675
July 2011
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Big transactions how are they done on forum?, by andyroo0312 on Dec 19, 2017 4:57:28 GMT 1, I have sold some big ticket items from down here in Sydney and have always just gone the paypal road of money gets sent and once i can transfer it out of PayPal and into my bank i send the item. To be fair a lot of sales are done with a little bit of trust involved that is why i have only ever felt with long standing members or folk i have done hassle free transactions with in the past... These days due to data matching software the taxman has i would much prefer a face to face cash transaction which i would do in a Bank or somewhere similar just incase someone decides to do a Usain Bolt, plus always a good idea if you do a face to face have a friend act as a watcher out on the st or near were you are doing the deed...
I have sold some big ticket items from down here in Sydney and have always just gone the paypal road of money gets sent and once i can transfer it out of PayPal and into my bank i send the item. To be fair a lot of sales are done with a little bit of trust involved that is why i have only ever felt with long standing members or folk i have done hassle free transactions with in the past... These days due to data matching software the taxman has i would much prefer a face to face cash transaction which i would do in a Bank or somewhere similar just incase someone decides to do a Usain Bolt, plus always a good idea if you do a face to face have a friend act as a watcher out on the st or near were you are doing the deed...
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saintred88
New Member
Posts โข 217
Likes โข 87
October 2017
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Big transactions how are they done on forum?, by saintred88 on Dec 19, 2017 5:05:58 GMT 1, due diligence is a must.
due diligence is a must.
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Gentle Mental
Junior Member
Posts โข 2,798
Likes โข 834
May 2007
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Big transactions how are they done on forum?, by Gentle Mental on Dec 19, 2017 5:39:49 GMT 1, Sad there is still isnโt a โsafeโ way to transact internationally.
Sad there is still isnโt a โsafeโ way to transact internationally.
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Hubble Bubble
Junior Member
Posts โข 4,098
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December 2010
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Big transactions how are they done on forum?, by Hubble Bubble on Dec 19, 2017 6:27:39 GMT 1, References.
References.
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Dungle
Junior Member
Posts โข 3,994
Likes โข 5,127
June 2011
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Big transactions how are they done on forum?, by Dungle on Dec 19, 2017 9:13:16 GMT 1, 1) face to face
Or
2) item held at intermediary gallery till payment completed and inspection done.
1) face to face
Or
2) item held at intermediary gallery till payment completed and inspection done.
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moron
Junior Member
Posts โข 2,711
Likes โข 1,050
September 2017
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Big transactions how are they done on forum?, by moron on Dec 19, 2017 9:26:24 GMT 1, If I was selling something for big money. I would never accept Paypal. I would ask for a wire transfer if selling to someone abroad, cash if local and tell the buyer take it or leave it. Then send the artwork with a company like DHL, Fedex etc very properly packed and insured. If selling local, arrange a meeting somewhere neutral.
If I was selling something for big money. I would never accept Paypal. I would ask for a wire transfer if selling to someone abroad, cash if local and tell the buyer take it or leave it. Then send the artwork with a company like DHL, Fedex etc very properly packed and insured. If selling local, arrange a meeting somewhere neutral.
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J0NNY
Junior Member
Posts โข 1,029
Likes โข 695
December 2014
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Big transactions how are they done on forum?, by J0NNY on Dec 19, 2017 10:01:16 GMT 1, Sad there is still isnโt a โsafeโ way to transact internationally.
I don't think that there ever will be a 100% safe to deal with anything that converts to monetary value, locally or internationally. Face to face deals could potentially be a lot more damaging than losing some art/money. Sadly there are always people who will eithier be evil enough or desperate enough to take advantage, that goes from dealing in art worth tens of thousands right down to selling an old board game on gumtree for a fiver.
Sad there is still isnโt a โsafeโ way to transact internationally. I don't think that there ever will be a 100% safe to deal with anything that converts to monetary value, locally or internationally. Face to face deals could potentially be a lot more damaging than losing some art/money. Sadly there are always people who will eithier be evil enough or desperate enough to take advantage, that goes from dealing in art worth tens of thousands right down to selling an old board game on gumtree for a fiver.
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blerd
Junior Member
Posts โข 1,345
Likes โข 1,195
November 2016
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Big transactions how are they done on forum?, by blerd on Dec 19, 2017 10:30:40 GMT 1, Face to face has always worked for me. Its been a pleasure to meet some interesting characters along the way too.
Face to face has always worked for me. Its been a pleasure to meet some interesting characters along the way too.
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artmonster
New Member
Posts โข 311
Likes โข 270
January 2014
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Big transactions how are they done on forum?, by artmonster on Dec 19, 2017 15:00:49 GMT 1, Just out of interest, why not PayPal? I do big items face-to-face with BACS transfer while I am there. As soon as the recipient/artist received it, I take the item. I have done smaller items with PayPal, hence my question. I would usually pay the fees plus the cost or the item...I never had any issue there before either...
Just out of interest, why not PayPal? I do big items face-to-face with BACS transfer while I am there. As soon as the recipient/artist received it, I take the item. I have done smaller items with PayPal, hence my question. I would usually pay the fees plus the cost or the item...I never had any issue there before either...
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Warm Gun
Junior Member
Posts โข 4,646
Likes โข 1,130
August 2009
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Big transactions how are they done on forum?, by Warm Gun on Dec 19, 2017 15:48:51 GMT 1, Just out of interest, why not PayPal? I do big items face-to-face with BACS transfer while I am there. As soon as the recipient/artist received it, I take the item. I have done smaller items with PayPal, hence my question. I would usually pay the fees plus the cost or the item...I never had any issue there before either... I also do a BACS transfer whilst I'm there.
Just out of interest, why not PayPal? I do big items face-to-face with BACS transfer while I am there. As soon as the recipient/artist received it, I take the item. I have done smaller items with PayPal, hence my question. I would usually pay the fees plus the cost or the item...I never had any issue there before either... I also do a BACS transfer whilst I'm there.
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Faile 313
New Member
Posts โข 231
Likes โข 179
January 2017
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Big transactions how are they done on forum?, by Faile 313 on Dec 19, 2017 16:30:54 GMT 1, Regarding shipping insurance:
Its important to understand what carrier provided insurance actually entitles you to. I have rarely seen anyone successfully receive a claim payout for a art print that was damaged while in the tube or crate. On the other hand, they will payout for a damaged or lost package. So DONT sign for insured tube that appears to be damaged.
Shipping insurance is for the sellers benefit, so that the transaction can be refunded if the art is lost or the package is destroyed because of gross negligence by the carrier.
Due dilligence via pictures/video/Skype or a third party inspections plus proper packaging are the key to a happy large transaction imo.
Regarding shipping insurance:
Its important to understand what carrier provided insurance actually entitles you to. I have rarely seen anyone successfully receive a claim payout for a art print that was damaged while in the tube or crate. On the other hand, they will payout for a damaged or lost package. So DONT sign for insured tube that appears to be damaged.
Shipping insurance is for the sellers benefit, so that the transaction can be refunded if the art is lost or the package is destroyed because of gross negligence by the carrier.
Due dilligence via pictures/video/Skype or a third party inspections plus proper packaging are the key to a happy large transaction imo.
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Art!
New Member
Posts โข 423
Likes โข 299
October 2016
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Big transactions how are they done on forum?, by Art! on Dec 19, 2017 16:31:22 GMT 1, This is it really. Talk to them on the phone, ask for lots of photos, make sure they actually have the artwork, get a paper trail, etc. There's always some risk but your job is to minimize the amount, and decide what you're willing to lose to get the piece. I've never been scammed (fingers crossed), but have also walked away from plenty of deals I wanted to happen because things didn't seem right. Good luck!
This is it really. Talk to them on the phone, ask for lots of photos, make sure they actually have the artwork, get a paper trail, etc. There's always some risk but your job is to minimize the amount, and decide what you're willing to lose to get the piece. I've never been scammed (fingers crossed), but have also walked away from plenty of deals I wanted to happen because things didn't seem right. Good luck!
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tommh
New Member
Posts โข 35
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January 2017
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Big transactions how are they done on forum?, by tommh on Dec 19, 2017 16:40:56 GMT 1, You can use what's called an an escrow agreement. There are companies out there that offer this service (for a small fee of course). Basically one party deposits an asset with a third person (called an escrow agent), who, in turn, makes a delivery to another party if and when the specified conditions of the contract are met. You should find an escrow agent who's regulated by the FCA, so that you know they're not dodgy and not going to scam you.
You can use what's called an an escrow agreement. There are companies out there that offer this service (for a small fee of course). Basically one party deposits an asset with a third person (called an escrow agent), who, in turn, makes a delivery to another party if and when the specified conditions of the contract are met. You should find an escrow agent who's regulated by the FCA, so that you know they're not dodgy and not going to scam you.
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Deleted
Posts โข 0
Likes โข
January 1970
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Big transactions how are they done on forum?, by Deleted on Dec 19, 2017 17:47:14 GMT 1, If I was selling something for big money. I would never accept Paypal. I would ask for a wire transfer if selling to someone abroad, cash if local and tell the buyer take it or leave it. Then send the artwork with a company like DHL, Fedex etc very properly packed and insured. If selling local, arrange a meeting somewhere neutral. Can I ask why? I would only wire money if the buyer had 1k+ posts here and multiple references.
If I was selling something for big money. I would never accept Paypal. I would ask for a wire transfer if selling to someone abroad, cash if local and tell the buyer take it or leave it. Then send the artwork with a company like DHL, Fedex etc very properly packed and insured. If selling local, arrange a meeting somewhere neutral. Can I ask why? I would only wire money if the buyer had 1k+ posts here and multiple references.
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moron
Junior Member
Posts โข 2,711
Likes โข 1,050
September 2017
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Big transactions how are they done on forum?, by moron on Dec 19, 2017 18:01:11 GMT 1, If I was selling something for big money. I would never accept Paypal. I would ask for a wire transfer if selling to someone abroad, cash if local and tell the buyer take it or leave it. Then send the artwork with a company like DHL, Fedex etc very properly packed and insured. If selling local, arrange a meeting somewhere neutral. Can I ask why? I would only wire money if the buyer had 1k+ posts here and multiple references. IK posts on here and multiple references mean nothing in reality. If you are buying just make sure you know who the seller is and get their phone number, real landline and address and make some conversations with them should give you a feel of who they are.
As a buyer you can insist on paying by Paypal and insist on it not being a gift payment, plus it's up to the seller to eat the Paypal fees not the buyer.
I was posting purely if I was selling a high dollar item not using Paypal because if the buyer makes a claim it means one could lose the item and money depending on if the buyer is honest or not or just downright fussy who makes a claim if an atomic particle is out of place. Plus second reason is, I know someone sold artwork for 6K, to a buyer abroadd. The buyer was perfect got the art and very happy with it. The seller a confirmed long term Paypal user got the 6K in their Paypal account. Decided to transfer the 6K in one go into their bank account after three days. Paypal decided to put a hold on his account and froze his money and had him jumping through all sorts of hoops and held his money for weeks before releasing it to him. That's the problem with Paypal for sellers, one just doesn't know when they decide to freeze someones money.
If I was selling something for big money. I would never accept Paypal. I would ask for a wire transfer if selling to someone abroad, cash if local and tell the buyer take it or leave it. Then send the artwork with a company like DHL, Fedex etc very properly packed and insured. If selling local, arrange a meeting somewhere neutral. Can I ask why? I would only wire money if the buyer had 1k+ posts here and multiple references. IK posts on here and multiple references mean nothing in reality. If you are buying just make sure you know who the seller is and get their phone number, real landline and address and make some conversations with them should give you a feel of who they are. As a buyer you can insist on paying by Paypal and insist on it not being a gift payment, plus it's up to the seller to eat the Paypal fees not the buyer. I was posting purely if I was selling a high dollar item not using Paypal because if the buyer makes a claim it means one could lose the item and money depending on if the buyer is honest or not or just downright fussy who makes a claim if an atomic particle is out of place. Plus second reason is, I know someone sold artwork for 6K, to a buyer abroadd. The buyer was perfect got the art and very happy with it. The seller a confirmed long term Paypal user got the 6K in their Paypal account. Decided to transfer the 6K in one go into their bank account after three days. P aypal decided to put a hold on his account and froze his money and had him jumping through all sorts of hoops and held his money for weeks before releasing it to him. That's the problem with Paypal for sellers, one just doesn't know when they decide to freeze someones money.
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moron
Junior Member
Posts โข 2,711
Likes โข 1,050
September 2017
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Big transactions how are they done on forum?, by moron on Dec 19, 2017 18:02:28 GMT 1, I bought a painting once for cash and met the seller on a crowded subway platform late at night. I think the seller was a bit paranoid.
I bought a painting once for cash and met the seller on a crowded subway platform late at night. I think the seller was a bit paranoid.
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J0NNY
Junior Member
Posts โข 1,029
Likes โข 695
December 2014
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Big transactions how are they done on forum?, by J0NNY on Dec 19, 2017 18:53:53 GMT 1, If I was selling something for big money. I would never accept Paypal. I would ask for a wire transfer if selling to someone abroad, cash if local and tell the buyer take it or leave it. Then send the artwork with a company like DHL, Fedex etc very properly packed and insured. If selling local, arrange a meeting somewhere neutral. Can I ask why? I would only wire money if the buyer had 1k+ posts here and multiple references.
What to someone like RRR?
If I was selling something for big money. I would never accept Paypal. I would ask for a wire transfer if selling to someone abroad, cash if local and tell the buyer take it or leave it. Then send the artwork with a company like DHL, Fedex etc very properly packed and insured. If selling local, arrange a meeting somewhere neutral. Can I ask why? I would only wire money if the buyer had 1k+ posts here and multiple references. What to someone like RRR?
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moron
Junior Member
Posts โข 2,711
Likes โข 1,050
September 2017
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Big transactions how are they done on forum?, by moron on Dec 19, 2017 18:58:22 GMT 1, Just out of interest, why not PayPal? I do big items face-to-face with BACS transfer while I am there. As soon as the recipient/artist received it, I take the item. I have done smaller items with PayPal, hence my question. I would usually pay the fees plus the cost or the item...I never had any issue there before either... I think Paypal is perfect for small items.
Just out of interest, why not PayPal? I do big items face-to-face with BACS transfer while I am there. As soon as the recipient/artist received it, I take the item. I have done smaller items with PayPal, hence my question. I would usually pay the fees plus the cost or the item...I never had any issue there before either... I think Paypal is perfect for small items.
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Pistol
Artist
Junior Member
Posts โข 2,091
Likes โข 1,757
February 2008
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Big transactions how are they done on forum?, by Pistol on Dec 19, 2017 20:33:56 GMT 1, Personally I would only do large transactions with people I know and trust. No exceptions.
Personally I would only do large transactions with people I know and trust. No exceptions.
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ToonKiller
New Member
Posts โข 218
Likes โข 141
November 2013
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Big transactions how are they done on forum?, by ToonKiller on Dec 19, 2017 20:52:36 GMT 1, Just out of interest, why not PayPal? I do big items face-to-face with BACS transfer while I am there. As soon as the recipient/artist received it, I take the item. I have done smaller items with PayPal, hence my question. I would usually pay the fees plus the cost or the item...I never had any issue there before either... PayPal has a 180 day return policy, no bueno.
That now gives the buyer 180 days to regret their large purchase. I'd personally want to do a wire transfer and if they buyer so chooses they can use their PayPal debit card to pay, which I believe offers the same protection to the buyer minus the ridiculous 180 day return policy. I could be wrong though....
Just out of interest, why not PayPal? I do big items face-to-face with BACS transfer while I am there. As soon as the recipient/artist received it, I take the item. I have done smaller items with PayPal, hence my question. I would usually pay the fees plus the cost or the item...I never had any issue there before either... PayPal has a 180 day return policy, no bueno. That now gives the buyer 180 days to regret their large purchase. I'd personally want to do a wire transfer and if they buyer so chooses they can use their PayPal debit card to pay, which I believe offers the same protection to the buyer minus the ridiculous 180 day return policy. I could be wrong though....
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nex
Junior Member
Posts โข 2,573
Likes โข 1,819
February 2009
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Big transactions how are they done on forum?, by nex on Dec 19, 2017 21:31:20 GMT 1, References, reasonableness and trust.
References, reasonableness and trust.
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artmonster
New Member
Posts โข 311
Likes โข 270
January 2014
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Big transactions how are they done on forum?, by artmonster on Dec 19, 2017 21:41:11 GMT 1, Just out of interest, why not PayPal? I do big items face-to-face with BACS transfer while I am there. As soon as the recipient/artist received it, I take the item. I have done smaller items with PayPal, hence my question. I would usually pay the fees plus the cost or the item...I never had any issue there before either... PayPal has a 180 day return policy, no bueno. That now gives the buyer 180 days to regret their large purchase. I'd personally want to do a wire transfer and if they buyer so chooses they can use their PayPal debit card to pay, which I believe offers the same protection to the buyer minus the ridiculous 180 day return policy. I could be wrong though....
I thought the payment method/source did not matter on PayPal, you would always have (at least) a 30 day return option? I might be wrong...
Just out of interest, why not PayPal? I do big items face-to-face with BACS transfer while I am there. As soon as the recipient/artist received it, I take the item. I have done smaller items with PayPal, hence my question. I would usually pay the fees plus the cost or the item...I never had any issue there before either... PayPal has a 180 day return policy, no bueno. That now gives the buyer 180 days to regret their large purchase. I'd personally want to do a wire transfer and if they buyer so chooses they can use their PayPal debit card to pay, which I believe offers the same protection to the buyer minus the ridiculous 180 day return policy. I could be wrong though.... I thought the payment method/source did not matter on PayPal, you would always have (at least) a 30 day return option? I might be wrong...
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mint
New Member
Posts โข 611
Likes โข 729
August 2007
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Big transactions how are they done on forum?, by mint on Dec 19, 2017 21:42:43 GMT 1, Trust your gut. If it feels weird, it usually is. I have been so close to finishing transactions, but felt something was off right before paying. Ultimately pulled out of the deals and my suspicions were usually confirmed.
That said, I have paid over 5K via paypal gift and venmo to complete strangers on numerous occasions. No coverage. All worked out. Life is about risks and all that....
Trust your gut. If it feels weird, it usually is. I have been so close to finishing transactions, but felt something was off right before paying. Ultimately pulled out of the deals and my suspicions were usually confirmed.
That said, I have paid over 5K via paypal gift and venmo to complete strangers on numerous occasions. No coverage. All worked out. Life is about risks and all that....
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artmonster
New Member
Posts โข 311
Likes โข 270
January 2014
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Big transactions how are they done on forum?, by artmonster on Dec 19, 2017 21:46:23 GMT 1, Also, on the plus point...doing face to face with artists is magical. I have been in some workshops I absolutely loved (and where I bought a lot more than firstly intended-itโs the aerosol gas I am sure)....
Also, on the plus point...doing face to face with artists is magical. I have been in some workshops I absolutely loved (and where I bought a lot more than firstly intended-itโs the aerosol gas I am sure)....
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.dappy
Full Member
Posts โข 9,835
Likes โข 9,443
December 2010
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Big transactions how are they done on forum?, by .dappy on Dec 20, 2017 1:39:17 GMT 1, ... I have done deals with people the other side of the world literally ... on large amounts, I usually ask for approx 60-75% of the agreed price before shipment ...
... that way if I do get stiffed while I won't have all of the value, I will not be completely empty handed ... and the buyer feels that they have not paid all of the money without anything in hand ...
... before the deal happens, I also do my own due diligence on the person to make sure they are 'real' ... if I am not happy I will walk away ...
I do appreciate the being Guardian does give some comfort (however small ) to anyone transacting with me ... but I could always give good references before that anyway ...
... If it is in the UK ... face to face is always my preference ...
... I have done deals with people the other side of the world literally ... on large amounts, I usually ask for approx 60-75% of the agreed price before shipment ... ... that way if I do get stiffed while I won't have all of the value, I will not be completely empty handed ... and the buyer feels that they have not paid all of the money without anything in hand ... ... before the deal happens, I also do my own due diligence on the person to make sure they are 'real' ... if I am not happy I will walk away ... I do appreciate the being Guardian does give some comfort (however small ) to anyone transacting with me ... but I could always give good references before that anyway ... ... If it is in the UK ... face to face is always my preference ...
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darkarts
New Member
Posts โข 14
Likes โข 15
July 2017
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Big transactions how are they done on forum?, by darkarts on Dec 20, 2017 14:59:43 GMT 1, I used escrow for an international sale before with a complete stranger found on reddit, worked well! it's like a digital handshake where the funds are held until the item is received as agreed, and you can see that the funds are there before posting.
I used escrow for an international sale before with a complete stranger found on reddit, worked well! it's like a digital handshake where the funds are held until the item is received as agreed, and you can see that the funds are there before posting.
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Gentle Mental
Junior Member
Posts โข 2,798
Likes โข 834
May 2007
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Big transactions how are they done on forum?, by Gentle Mental on Dec 20, 2017 15:09:32 GMT 1, I used escrow for an international sale before with a complete stranger found on reddit, worked well! it's like a digital handshake where the funds are held until the item is received as agreed, and you can see that the funds are there before posting.
Wouldnโt a scamming buyer claim empty tube and freeze payment? Things like that would keep me sleepless....
I used escrow for an international sale before with a complete stranger found on reddit, worked well! it's like a digital handshake where the funds are held until the item is received as agreed, and you can see that the funds are there before posting. Wouldnโt a scamming buyer claim empty tube and freeze payment? Things like that would keep me sleepless....
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artmonster
New Member
Posts โข 311
Likes โข 270
January 2014
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Big transactions how are they done on forum?, by artmonster on Dec 20, 2017 15:35:05 GMT 1, I once received (not art related) a parcel from the Netherlands. As I was at work, I got an automated message to say it was delivered. When I arrived home, no parcel. I walked up and down the road to see whether it ended up elsewhere. I found it 5 houses down, ripped to shreds, nothing in it. When I looked at the rip marks it was obvious it got stuck in a machine (postage selection?) somewhere and pulled out with contents spilling out. Why someone would then still deliver an obvious damaged empty carton box is the mystery. I am not sure whether the seller thought I was honest or not when I told her, but she did refund. When I investigated more, I found out that the parcel was delivered to the courier with a recorded 0.0kg weight....
I once received (not art related) a parcel from the Netherlands. As I was at work, I got an automated message to say it was delivered. When I arrived home, no parcel. I walked up and down the road to see whether it ended up elsewhere. I found it 5 houses down, ripped to shreds, nothing in it. When I looked at the rip marks it was obvious it got stuck in a machine (postage selection?) somewhere and pulled out with contents spilling out. Why someone would then still deliver an obvious damaged empty carton box is the mystery. I am not sure whether the seller thought I was honest or not when I told her, but she did refund. When I investigated more, I found out that the parcel was delivered to the courier with a recorded 0.0kg weight....
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artmonster
New Member
Posts โข 311
Likes โข 270
January 2014
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Big transactions how are they done on forum?, by artmonster on Dec 20, 2017 15:39:16 GMT 1, So what I am trying to say is, even if it goes well regarding the exchange of money/hoods, there are still quite a few variables you cannot control (courier etc). Face to face gives assurance in that aspect...
So what I am trying to say is, even if it goes well regarding the exchange of money/hoods, there are still quite a few variables you cannot control (courier etc). Face to face gives assurance in that aspect...
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