NYart
Junior Member
Posts โข 1,221
Likes โข 843
January 2016
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I THINK THE STREET ART MARKET IS DEAD. DO YOU?, by NYart on Jul 25, 2018 16:11:00 GMT 1, Didnโt want to quote you to avoid a ridiculously long post.. I definitely agree with several of your points, might just be our perceptions on the matter differ.
Education and mastering a craft certainly can go a long way. I was just arguing that it wouldnโt make sense to rule anyone out based on a lack of formal education. Because some do make it without, while others can have the best background but have a hard time just getting by even with their credentials.
As far as the musical comparison I was more so thinking the likes of Jimi Hendrix, Bowie, Clapton, who have stood the time despite the lack of formal education. But the whole SoundCloud rapper scene does show that it isnโt hard to get noticed and blow up this day in age. Talented and worthy of it or not, and however unlikely to last.
Definitely a fair point with the old masters having assistants, I guess that one especially comes down to perception of it. Along with the necessity to scale up to meet the demand for some of the big names today. However I almost feel at that point they begin to transition more into designers than artists. I actually recall reading Kostabi admitting being unable to paint his own pieces -which sure heโs an outcast but thatโs not because his production is unlike Koons etc-. I suppose it all is fine if your still into that, but it takes away from the work for me.
I would tend to agree that several artists who have been around the urban art scene have peaked but thatโs not to say their careers are over or the market as a whole is dead. Just to play devils advocate - imagine if Banksy posted about Faile or Bast? Thatโs how Mr Brainwash got started and he certainly wasnโt educated or talented, yet the mainstream art world holds him among highest regards in urban art. But anyway, there are plenty of up and coming artists to fill the void, and while it may seem there are less collectors joining in, Iโm only 26 myself. None of my friends are into art like me but everyone appreciates mine, so it could stand to be reasoned that urban art is a easy stepping stone into the world.
Didnโt want to quote you to avoid a ridiculously long post.. I definitely agree with several of your points, might just be our perceptions on the matter differ.
Education and mastering a craft certainly can go a long way. I was just arguing that it wouldnโt make sense to rule anyone out based on a lack of formal education. Because some do make it without, while others can have the best background but have a hard time just getting by even with their credentials.
As far as the musical comparison I was more so thinking the likes of Jimi Hendrix, Bowie, Clapton, who have stood the time despite the lack of formal education. But the whole SoundCloud rapper scene does show that it isnโt hard to get noticed and blow up this day in age. Talented and worthy of it or not, and however unlikely to last.
Definitely a fair point with the old masters having assistants, I guess that one especially comes down to perception of it. Along with the necessity to scale up to meet the demand for some of the big names today. However I almost feel at that point they begin to transition more into designers than artists. I actually recall reading Kostabi admitting being unable to paint his own pieces -which sure heโs an outcast but thatโs not because his production is unlike Koons etc-. I suppose it all is fine if your still into that, but it takes away from the work for me.
I would tend to agree that several artists who have been around the urban art scene have peaked but thatโs not to say their careers are over or the market as a whole is dead. Just to play devils advocate - imagine if Banksy posted about Faile or Bast? Thatโs how Mr Brainwash got started and he certainly wasnโt educated or talented, yet the mainstream art world holds him among highest regards in urban art. But anyway, there are plenty of up and coming artists to fill the void, and while it may seem there are less collectors joining in, Iโm only 26 myself. None of my friends are into art like me but everyone appreciates mine, so it could stand to be reasoned that urban art is a easy stepping stone into the world.
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Simococo
Junior Member
Posts โข 3,146
Likes โข 369
April 2007
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I THINK THE STREET ART MARKET IS DEAD. DO YOU?, by Simococo on Jul 25, 2018 17:16:09 GMT 1, If anyone has any affordable originals for sale (now the market is dead) by Nick Walker, Faile, Anthony Lister, Adam Neate, D*Face, Delta, Bast, Paul Insect, Eine, Blek Le Rat, The London Police or Sickboy then please get in touch.
If anyone has any affordable originals for sale (now the market is dead) by Nick Walker, Faile, Anthony Lister, Adam Neate, D*Face, Delta, Bast, Paul Insect, Eine, Blek Le Rat, The London Police or Sickboy then please get in touch.
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moron
Junior Member
Posts โข 2,711
Likes โข 1,050
September 2017
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I THINK THE STREET ART MARKET IS DEAD. DO YOU?, by moron on Jul 25, 2018 18:02:35 GMT 1, But is it โallโ subjective? I appreciate fully that what I like may not be to your taste and vice versa. And to that extent there is an element of subjectivity. But is it not possible to conclude also that some art is simply bad? I have in mind, as an example, a wall that Mr Brainwash painted a while ago. It was shocking. Can I not say that that wall is awful art? Do I have to say itโs simply not to my taste? Having access to art supplies does not make one an artist. shame Rothko, Twombly and Chagall didn't get the memo
But is it โallโ subjective? I appreciate fully that what I like may not be to your taste and vice versa. And to that extent there is an element of subjectivity. But is it not possible to conclude also that some art is simply bad? I have in mind, as an example, a wall that Mr Brainwash painted a while ago. It was shocking. Can I not say that that wall is awful art? Do I have to say itโs simply not to my taste? Having access to art supplies does not make one an artist. shame Rothko, Twombly and Chagall didn't get the memo
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moron
Junior Member
Posts โข 2,711
Likes โข 1,050
September 2017
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I THINK THE STREET ART MARKET IS DEAD. DO YOU?, by moron on Jul 25, 2018 18:10:13 GMT 1, I think some are putting too much weight in how just a handful of artists careers have gone. Several of which still can quickly sell out an edition. Along with that I think the necessity of an artists education/technical ability is also being over stated. A few reasons behind this belief; first is many of the biggest artists donโt/didnโt even produce their own work (Hirst, Koons). So whatโs the need for technical ability? Sure they have the education but why does that give them a pass from producing their own work? Both my examples also donโt exactly overwhelm with their creativity or originality. There are only so many ways you can paint dots or animals to make balloons of. Which is one of the biggest complaints here about some artists, yet no one knocks them for it. Seems once artists reach a certain point in their career, standards others are held to go out the window. As far as education is concerned, what about it is so important? Creativity and inspiration isnโt exactly something that can be taught. Sure you can learn about styles, time periods, artists to come before. But if anything I feel that promotes borrowing from others, as opposed to being uninflunced and original. Is there any advantage in learning how to master oils when you arenโt going to create anything that hasnโt been done better before? Educatation and technical ability certainly will contribute to a career but in the world today I think it is irrelevant in who blows up and who doesnโt. Look at other fields of โartโ, how many famous musicians in the news, on the radio, have a music background? If you have the talent, right people behind you, and maybe a lucky break thatโs all it takes. Basquiat is a fairly recent example - all it took is meeting Warhol to make it - not education or technical ability. If Banksy has any education or technical training itโd be hard to argue that contributed to his success. The support of a few celebrities did more for his career than any art critics or supporting galleries. When theyโre all slinging Mr Brainwash and Alec Monopoly, who would trust their opinion anyway? People today are more inclined to check out an artist mentioned by Kim Kardashian than Jerry Saltz. If 1% of her followers looked into an artist, and of that 1%, 1% went on to buy a piece youโd be looking at 11,400 sales. Thatโd do more for an artist than a decade of exhibitions. Maybe in 100 years people will look back and say the entire time period was crap and produced nothing note worthy (urban, contemporary, pop art all included). The jump between levels of talent and technical ability between Van Gogh and Warhol is greater than that of Warhol and Whatson in my opinion (maybe Banksy would be a better example, but to emphasize my point I believe whatson also fits here). But more has changed in technology and society as a whole in the past 30 years -about the entire existence of urban art- than ever in history. The criteria necessary to โsucceedโ has changed and I believe the only thing that is really on its way out is the Ponzi scheme of the elite, galleries, and auction houses. Thereโs less and less need for artists and collectors to buy into it. I think Warhol worked for an ad agency and was a fairly competent artist plus he had the right mindset at the time and saw the opportunity to promote his name via controversial but safe art which made good little news stories on TV and in papers. Dali learned that trick too when he smashed the window in the department store by accident when he decided to adjust the placement of his window display in New York and journos twisted the event around as to Dali was walking past and angrily smashed the window.
Banksy has done the same basically, it's more about the Banksy than the art he makes, publicity and hype and networking in the right circles sells anything.
I think some are putting too much weight in how just a handful of artists careers have gone. Several of which still can quickly sell out an edition. Along with that I think the necessity of an artists education/technical ability is also being over stated. A few reasons behind this belief; first is many of the biggest artists donโt/didnโt even produce their own work (Hirst, Koons). So whatโs the need for technical ability? Sure they have the education but why does that give them a pass from producing their own work? Both my examples also donโt exactly overwhelm with their creativity or originality. There are only so many ways you can paint dots or animals to make balloons of. Which is one of the biggest complaints here about some artists, yet no one knocks them for it. Seems once artists reach a certain point in their career, standards others are held to go out the window. As far as education is concerned, what about it is so important? Creativity and inspiration isnโt exactly something that can be taught. Sure you can learn about styles, time periods, artists to come before. But if anything I feel that promotes borrowing from others, as opposed to being uninflunced and original. Is there any advantage in learning how to master oils when you arenโt going to create anything that hasnโt been done better before? Educatation and technical ability certainly will contribute to a career but in the world today I think it is irrelevant in who blows up and who doesnโt. Look at other fields of โartโ, how many famous musicians in the news, on the radio, have a music background? If you have the talent, right people behind you, and maybe a lucky break thatโs all it takes. Basquiat is a fairly recent example - all it took is meeting Warhol to make it - not education or technical ability. If Banksy has any education or technical training itโd be hard to argue that contributed to his success. The support of a few celebrities did more for his career than any art critics or supporting galleries. When theyโre all slinging Mr Brainwash and Alec Monopoly, who would trust their opinion anyway? People today are more inclined to check out an artist mentioned by Kim Kardashian than Jerry Saltz. If 1% of her followers looked into an artist, and of that 1%, 1% went on to buy a piece youโd be looking at 11,400 sales. Thatโd do more for an artist than a decade of exhibitions. Maybe in 100 years people will look back and say the entire time period was crap and produced nothing note worthy (urban, contemporary, pop art all included). The jump between levels of talent and technical ability between Van Gogh and Warhol is greater than that of Warhol and Whatson in my opinion (maybe Banksy would be a better example, but to emphasize my point I believe whatson also fits here). But more has changed in technology and society as a whole in the past 30 years -about the entire existence of urban art- than ever in history. The criteria necessary to โsucceedโ has changed and I believe the only thing that is really on its way out is the Ponzi scheme of the elite, galleries, and auction houses. Thereโs less and less need for artists and collectors to buy into it. I think Warhol worked for an ad agency and was a fairly competent artist plus he had the right mindset at the time and saw the opportunity to promote his name via controversial but safe art which made good little news stories on TV and in papers. Dali learned that trick too when he smashed the window in the department store by accident when he decided to adjust the placement of his window display in New York and journos twisted the event around as to Dali was walking past and angrily smashed the window. Banksy has done the same basically, it's more about the Banksy than the art he makes, publicity and hype and networking in the right circles sells anything.
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moron
Junior Member
Posts โข 2,711
Likes โข 1,050
September 2017
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I THINK THE STREET ART MARKET IS DEAD. DO YOU?, by moron on Jul 25, 2018 18:14:55 GMT 1, Please don't compare Impressionism with Urban Art. Back then, they went to school and were classically trained. They could paint, regardless. But instead of painting religious or allegorical images, they painted real life. They shunned the brush strokes and went full impression mode. Today, the spraycan and stencils has allowed a lot more individuals to make pictures. That means folks with no experience can start putting out pictures into the world. And a lot of that is tat. That being said, I can't wait to see an Apish Angel or a Vandal in the Tate Modern or Pompidou permanent collections. And yet I will. Impressionism was not well received at the time, it was deemed ugly, profane, name it, it has been said about impressionism. Yet some found beauty there and embraced a new way of expression, which was breaking with the codes of romanticism (when naturalism wasn't). Today it is accepted as one of the most important art movement in history, alongside all cited previously and many others. I could mention dadaism and so on. My point is: urban art will find its place in the main 'accepted' art movements of history and will have its place in museums that are not currently exhibiting it. It is only a matter of time. This is regardless of skills by the way, some painters exhibited in museums today were copiously destroyed by critics of their time, the same will happen the urban and any other art movement after that. "Impressionism was not well received at the time"
I think that's a bit of a myth in some ways. Some critics panned impressionism but the public loved it, hence the large amount of money people like Renoir and Monet etc made from their art.
Van Gogh was ostracised because he was unpredictable and his brother dealt in art by other artists and did everything to keep a distance between himself and prevent Van Gogh visiting him in Paris.
Please don't compare Impressionism with Urban Art. Back then, they went to school and were classically trained. They could paint, regardless. But instead of painting religious or allegorical images, they painted real life. They shunned the brush strokes and went full impression mode. Today, the spraycan and stencils has allowed a lot more individuals to make pictures. That means folks with no experience can start putting out pictures into the world. And a lot of that is tat. That being said, I can't wait to see an Apish Angel or a Vandal in the Tate Modern or Pompidou permanent collections. And yet I will. Impressionism was not well received at the time, it was deemed ugly, profane, name it, it has been said about impressionism. Yet some found beauty there and embraced a new way of expression, which was breaking with the codes of romanticism (when naturalism wasn't). Today it is accepted as one of the most important art movement in history, alongside all cited previously and many others. I could mention dadaism and so on. My point is: urban art will find its place in the main 'accepted' art movements of history and will have its place in museums that are not currently exhibiting it. It is only a matter of time. This is regardless of skills by the way, some painters exhibited in museums today were copiously destroyed by critics of their time, the same will happen the urban and any other art movement after that. "Impressionism was not well received at the time"
I think that's a bit of a myth in some ways. Some critics panned impressionism but the public loved it, hence the large amount of money people like Renoir and Monet etc made from their art. Van Gogh was ostracised because he was unpredictable and his brother dealt in art by other artists and did everything to keep a distance between himself and prevent Van Gogh visiting him in Paris.
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NYart
Junior Member
Posts โข 1,221
Likes โข 843
January 2016
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I THINK THE STREET ART MARKET IS DEAD. DO YOU?, by NYart on Jul 25, 2018 18:38:49 GMT 1, 'The jump between levels of talent and technical ability between Van Gogh and Warhol is greater than that of Warhol and Whatson..' NYart. Whaaaaaaa? You have to be kidding, a giant of the 19th century, a giant of the 20th century....and ..someone else
I figured Iโd get a reaction from using Whatson there. Banksy may have been a more reasonable one to use, but Iโd stand behind either being true. The argument I was making using that example is that if urban art comes and goes leaving no lasting impact on art history, that I believe contemporary and pop art would suffer the same fate. Whatson (or banksy if you prefer -although banksy at least has depth to his work they lack) and Warhol have more in common than Warhol and Van Gogh. Both were successful at churning out and selling works in their identifiable style. Took creativity but not necessarily technical artistic skill unlike Van Gogh or any other master of their craft.
'The jump between levels of talent and technical ability between Van Gogh and Warhol is greater than that of Warhol and Whatson..' NYart. Whaaaaaaa? You have to be kidding, a giant of the 19th century, a giant of the 20th century....and ..someone else I figured Iโd get a reaction from using Whatson there. Banksy may have been a more reasonable one to use, but Iโd stand behind either being true. The argument I was making using that example is that if urban art comes and goes leaving no lasting impact on art history, that I believe contemporary and pop art would suffer the same fate. Whatson (or banksy if you prefer -although banksy at least has depth to his work they lack) and Warhol have more in common than Warhol and Van Gogh. Both were successful at churning out and selling works in their identifiable style. Took creativity but not necessarily technical artistic skill unlike Van Gogh or any other master of their craft.
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I THINK THE STREET ART MARKET IS DEAD. DO YOU?, by Lroy on Jul 25, 2018 18:42:28 GMT 1, Itโs a very serious and hard to understand for a guy like me ! I applause anyway ! Clap clap ๐ฌ ๐
Itโs a very serious and hard to understand for a guy like me ! I applause anyway ! Clap clap ๐ฌ ๐
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moron
Junior Member
Posts โข 2,711
Likes โข 1,050
September 2017
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I THINK THE STREET ART MARKET IS DEAD. DO YOU?, by moron on Jul 25, 2018 19:05:35 GMT 1, Nothing really has changed in the art game for a hundred years now. Just the trendy names created to sell art under a certain badge.
Altho in these last decade or two years I think there are probably more people working as artists who are motivated by making money and less about the actual art they create. Kaws is one example for me anyway and I'm sure there are others like Invader etc for others. It's easy for anyone to knock up some stencils these days and throw some paint on top. Or to make images of Hollywood etc icons chewing bubbly gum or added photoshop tats because they know it's effortless and they can make good money from this type of tactic. They play the game and they network and these days art critics tend to avoid negatively critiquing artists plus I would say that a lot of journos etc writing for urban art mags blogs and sites work together pushing some as in Gonefellow etc.
It's easy for people to take Disney and Marvel art and very well known to the masses and slightly alter them and re package the fnished result as a work of art under their own name.
I think this type of art is probably going out of fashion.
Artists like Bast to me are the equivelant of Miro from years past and I mean that in a positive way. Bast is a sort of modern Miro and if viewed seriously the way Miro was then his art has longevity and worth buying. Faile to me is the modern day version of Chagall. Not in technique and style although their recent paintings could compare with Chagalls in some way and Faile will keeep going and be blue chip eventually.
It's not about a quick profit but buying selectively and knowing art and to some degree the evolution of modern art from the turn of the last century till today. Also visiting museums and looking at old art is not to be avoided, it's a good thing to visit museums get the feel of art and also visit galleries and shows and be self critical in the reason for spending a chunk of money on what some gallerist tells you is a good investment.
Look at Pollock and his drips and look at Brainwash and his drips one is about the man and his place in the art world and the other is just an opportunist.
Pollock has a similarity to the graffiti artists that emerged in the 70's etc in that his dripping paint on canvas is similar to tagging by graffers etc and later spray cannistas in that if one was Freud one could say, ah yes Pollock massively repressed sexual urges and his drips a metaphor for ejaculation. Graffer taggers, the cans are a substitute man sausage and all the shaking and vibrating finish with an ejaculation of paint on a building and the result of some form of repressed urges. Plus of course we all know that Dali was obsessed with ejaculation too.
What I just wrote is of course a load of bollokks but bad art is the best art to intellectualise and sell to people wit more money than sense. Good art speaks for itself.
Regarding Dada and Duchamp.
which I thought everyone knew anyway.
"Where did this idea that anything could be a work of art come from? It's generally believed to have come from Marcel Duchamp. In 1917, a urinal was sent to an art exhibition in New York, supposedly by Duchamp. But recent research has shown that the urinal was actually submitted by Baroness Elsa von Freytag-Loringhoven. Her gesture was an early feminist attack on a male society. She didn't claim the urinal was a work of art. She was taking the piss."
www.independent.co.uk/voices/commentators/julian-spalding-damien-hirsts-are-the-sub-prime-of-the-art-world-7586386.html
Nothing really has changed in the art game for a hundred years now. Just the trendy names created to sell art under a certain badge. Altho in these last decade or two years I think there are probably more people working as artists who are motivated by making money and less about the actual art they create. Kaws is one example for me anyway and I'm sure there are others like Invader etc for others. It's easy for anyone to knock up some stencils these days and throw some paint on top. Or to make images of Hollywood etc icons chewing bubbly gum or added photoshop tats because they know it's effortless and they can make good money from this type of tactic. They play the game and they network and these days art critics tend to avoid negatively critiquing artists plus I would say that a lot of journos etc writing for urban art mags blogs and sites work together pushing some as in Gonefellow etc. It's easy for people to take Disney and Marvel art and very well known to the masses and slightly alter them and re package the fnished result as a work of art under their own name. I think this type of art is probably going out of fashion. Artists like Bast to me are the equivelant of Miro from years past and I mean that in a positive way. Bast is a sort of modern Miro and if viewed seriously the way Miro was then his art has longevity and worth buying. Faile to me is the modern day version of Chagall. Not in technique and style although their recent paintings could compare with Chagalls in some way and Faile will keeep going and be blue chip eventually. It's not about a quick profit but buying selectively and knowing art and to some degree the evolution of modern art from the turn of the last century till today. Also visiting museums and looking at old art is not to be avoided, it's a good thing to visit museums get the feel of art and also visit galleries and shows and be self critical in the reason for spending a chunk of money on what some gallerist tells you is a good investment. Look at Pollock and his drips and look at Brainwash and his drips one is about the man and his place in the art world and the other is just an opportunist. Pollock has a similarity to the graffiti artists that emerged in the 70's etc in that his dripping paint on canvas is similar to tagging by graffers etc and later spray cannistas in that if one was Freud one could say, ah yes Pollock massively repressed sexual urges and his drips a metaphor for ejaculation. Graffer taggers, the cans are a substitute man sausage and all the shaking and vibrating finish with an ejaculation of paint on a building and the result of some form of repressed urges. Plus of course we all know that Dali was obsessed with ejaculation too. What I just wrote is of course a load of bollokks but bad art is the best art to intellectualise and sell to people wit more money than sense. Good art speaks for itself. Regarding Dada and Duchamp. which I thought everyone knew anyway. "Where did this idea that anything could be a work of art come from? It's generally believed to have come from Marcel Duchamp. In 1917, a urinal was sent to an art exhibition in New York, supposedly by Duchamp. But recent research has shown that the urinal was actually submitted by Baroness Elsa von Freytag-Loringhoven. Her gesture was an early feminist attack on a male society. She didn't claim the urinal was a work of art. She was taking the piss."www.independent.co.uk/voices/commentators/julian-spalding-damien-hirsts-are-the-sub-prime-of-the-art-world-7586386.html
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moron
Junior Member
Posts โข 2,711
Likes โข 1,050
September 2017
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I THINK THE STREET ART MARKET IS DEAD. DO YOU?, by moron on Jul 25, 2018 19:38:09 GMT 1, Personally if I was thinking of investing in for example prints, I would be looking at early ltd editions by Peter Blake which are very affordable (compared with prints by quite young artists that are knocking out prints on a regular basis) and it wouldn't matter if they were screen prints or lithos. For the simple reason that Blake is very old and his prices will definately go up when he pops his clogs. It's a bit ruthless to think that way I know but flippers don't care about people only the art that people make and they can make a profit on
Other Urban type pop artists of the 50's 60's 70's even 80's too are very affordable too in some bricks and mortar sale rooms.
Paolozzi is one of my favourites too for prints. Plus other artists that pop up un sale rooms that one can buy a signed ltd edition for anything from a couple of hundred to a thousand. They probably wont rise fast but if they have a surge in interest and auction prices shoot up, the prints could be a good long term thing.
My tip, (not to be taken as investment advice) for people starting out is check out auctions like this one and do some research.
auctions.roseberys.co.uk/m/view-auctions/catalog/id/283/
Very affordable and as with any auction, get as much info regarding provenance as possible.
Personally if I was thinking of investing in for example prints, I would be looking at early ltd editions by Peter Blake which are very affordable (compared with prints by quite young artists that are knocking out prints on a regular basis) and it wouldn't matter if they were screen prints or lithos. For the simple reason that Blake is very old and his prices will definately go up when he pops his clogs. It's a bit ruthless to think that way I know but flippers don't care about people only the art that people make and they can make a profit on Other Urban type pop artists of the 50's 60's 70's even 80's too are very affordable too in some bricks and mortar sale rooms. Paolozzi is one of my favourites too for prints. Plus other artists that pop up un sale rooms that one can buy a signed ltd edition for anything from a couple of hundred to a thousand. They probably wont rise fast but if they have a surge in interest and auction prices shoot up, the prints could be a good long term thing. My tip, (not to be taken as investment advice) for people starting out is check out auctions like this one and do some research. auctions.roseberys.co.uk/m/view-auctions/catalog/id/283/ Very affordable and as with any auction, get as much info regarding provenance as possible.
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jimbofatz
New Member
Posts โข 705
Likes โข 362
June 2017
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I THINK THE STREET ART MARKET IS DEAD. DO YOU?, by jimbofatz on Jul 25, 2018 22:33:35 GMT 1, My art "investment" strategy was always to buy whoever the band Sonic Youth used for their band artwork. I figured they were four at the time well connected people in the New York art scene and would be on the cusp of anything happening/about to break or with staying power. Through them I was introduced to the art of Raymond Pettibon (Goo), Gerhard Richter (Daydream Nation), Mike Kelley (Dirty), Richard Prince (Sonic Nurse), Richard Kern (Sister) etc.
Today my strategy has changed....banksy and those who influenced him/are attached to him etc. I've found the best strategy is to follow someone you know is ahead of the curve.
My art "investment" strategy was always to buy whoever the band Sonic Youth used for their band artwork. I figured they were four at the time well connected people in the New York art scene and would be on the cusp of anything happening/about to break or with staying power. Through them I was introduced to the art of Raymond Pettibon (Goo), Gerhard Richter (Daydream Nation), Mike Kelley (Dirty), Richard Prince (Sonic Nurse), Richard Kern (Sister) etc.
Today my strategy has changed....banksy and those who influenced him/are attached to him etc. I've found the best strategy is to follow someone you know is ahead of the curve.
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butterknife
New Member
Posts โข 78
Likes โข 49
March 2018
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I THINK THE STREET ART MARKET IS DEAD. DO YOU?, by butterknife on Jul 25, 2018 22:57:22 GMT 1, Washing Machine was my favourite Sonic Youth cover. Not my favorite album unfortunately.
Washing Machine was my favourite Sonic Youth cover. Not my favorite album unfortunately.
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jimbofatz
New Member
Posts โข 705
Likes โข 362
June 2017
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I THINK THE STREET ART MARKET IS DEAD. DO YOU?, by jimbofatz on Jul 25, 2018 23:14:05 GMT 1, Washing Machine was my favourite Sonic Youth cover. Not my favorite album unfortunately. That was Mike Mills I have a bunch of his pieces he's also gone on to great things. Diamond Sea is great.
Washing Machine was my favourite Sonic Youth cover. Not my favorite album unfortunately. That was Mike Mills I have a bunch of his pieces he's also gone on to great things. Diamond Sea is great.
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moron
Junior Member
Posts โข 2,711
Likes โข 1,050
September 2017
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I THINK THE STREET ART MARKET IS DEAD. DO YOU?, by moron on Jul 25, 2018 23:32:13 GMT 1, My art "investment" strategy was always to buy whoever the band Sonic Youth used for their band artwork. I figured they were four at the time well connected people in the New York art scene and would be on the cusp of anything happening/about to break or with staying power. Through them I was introduced to the art of Raymond Pettibon (Goo), Gerhard Richter (Daydream Nation), Mike Kelley (Dirty), Richard Prince (Sonic Nurse), Richard Kern (Sister) etc. Today my strategy has changed....banksy and those who influenced him/are attached to him etc. I've found the best strategy is to follow someone you know is ahead of the curve. Brilliant strategy.
You could probably answer this. When was the last time Del Naja made art on a wall or building, that is attributed to him not Banksy?
My art "investment" strategy was always to buy whoever the band Sonic Youth used for their band artwork. I figured they were four at the time well connected people in the New York art scene and would be on the cusp of anything happening/about to break or with staying power. Through them I was introduced to the art of Raymond Pettibon (Goo), Gerhard Richter (Daydream Nation), Mike Kelley (Dirty), Richard Prince (Sonic Nurse), Richard Kern (Sister) etc. Today my strategy has changed....banksy and those who influenced him/are attached to him etc. I've found the best strategy is to follow someone you know is ahead of the curve. Brilliant strategy. You could probably answer this. When was the last time Del Naja made art on a wall or building, that is attributed to him not Banksy?
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butterknife
New Member
Posts โข 78
Likes โข 49
March 2018
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I THINK THE STREET ART MARKET IS DEAD. DO YOU?, by butterknife on Jul 26, 2018 0:53:26 GMT 1, Washing Machine was my favourite Sonic Youth cover. Not my favorite album unfortunately. That was Mike Mills I have a bunch of his pieces he's also gone on to great things. Diamond Sea is great. Diamond Sea is the stand-out.
Washing Machine was my favourite Sonic Youth cover. Not my favorite album unfortunately. That was Mike Mills I have a bunch of his pieces he's also gone on to great things. Diamond Sea is great. Diamond Sea is the stand-out.
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Whitefish
Artist
Junior Member
Posts โข 2,248
Likes โข 2,442
February 2015
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I THINK THE STREET ART MARKET IS DEAD. DO YOU?, by Whitefish on Jul 26, 2018 0:57:54 GMT 1, Banksy website updated with Paris rat drawing
Banksy website updated with Paris rat drawing
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avec art
Junior Member
Posts โข 3,726
Likes โข 3,061
March 2014
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I THINK THE STREET ART MARKET IS DEAD. DO YOU?, by avec art on Jul 26, 2018 1:26:40 GMT 1,
I just cant see prices to continue going up. Unless you start doing ultra-high quality prints like Paul Insect through Avante Arte, the days of POW type printing of street artists are just finished. not so fast Batman. It was the non glossy down to earth printing methods of the old POW which was my original inspiration into screen printing. The way they effortlessly seemed to capture and echo the graffiti on walls. Then their progression into the capture of the spray effect was super cool at the time, before others were doing it.
Well, I've never been very trendy I don't think, so perhaps not a great example. But personally for me it was never about the trend but the ideas and what was happening. I can say that as long as there are still people doing it, and I know I am, that I don't think we can say the fat lady has sung her last note.
I admire the pioneering methods by places like Avante Arte, but I'm also still into the good solid screen printing using quality materials, as in some circumstances the old ways are still the best ways.
I just cant see prices to continue going up. Unless you start doing ultra-high quality prints like Paul Insect through Avante Arte, the days of POW type printing of street artists are just finished. not so fast Batman. It was the non glossy down to earth printing methods of the old POW which was my original inspiration into screen printing. The way they effortlessly seemed to capture and echo the graffiti on walls. Then their progression into the capture of the spray effect was super cool at the time, before others were doing it.
Well, I've never been very trendy I don't think, so perhaps not a great example. But personally for me it was never about the trend but the ideas and what was happening. I can say that as long as there are still people doing it, and I know I am, that I don't think we can say the fat lady has sung her last note.
I admire the pioneering methods by places like Avante Arte, but I'm also still into the good solid screen printing using quality materials, as in some circumstances the old ways are still the best ways.
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Cardiff
Junior Member
Posts โข 1,700
Likes โข 1,472
January 2009
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I THINK THE STREET ART MARKET IS DEAD. DO YOU?, by Cardiff on Jul 26, 2018 1:37:52 GMT 1, Having access to art supplies does not make one an artist. shame Rothko, Twombly and Chagall didn't get the memo I haven't really kept up with this thread, but I have to respectfully disagree on Rothko...sitting in front of his work is the only time I've ever sensed a work of art "breathing" or felt such strong emotions from a canvas.
Having access to art supplies does not make one an artist. shame Rothko, Twombly and Chagall didn't get the memo I haven't really kept up with this thread, but I have to respectfully disagree on Rothko...sitting in front of his work is the only time I've ever sensed a work of art "breathing" or felt such strong emotions from a canvas.
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stevec
New Member
Posts โข 109
Likes โข 167
January 2017
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I THINK THE STREET ART MARKET IS DEAD. DO YOU?, by stevec on Jul 26, 2018 2:01:56 GMT 1, agreed, it's over. now, what do you have to sell?
agreed, it's over. now, what do you have to sell?
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thomasmer
Junior Member
Posts โข 1,107
Likes โข 565
July 2014
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I THINK THE STREET ART MARKET IS DEAD. DO YOU?, by thomasmer on Jul 26, 2018 3:21:38 GMT 1, Urban art was like a cancer to street art, its now at stage 4, and some serious Chemo is needed.
Urban art was like a cancer to street art, its now at stage 4, and some serious Chemo is needed.
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kwatis
New Member
Posts โข 974
Likes โข 691
April 2007
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I THINK THE STREET ART MARKET IS DEAD. DO YOU?, by kwatis on Jul 26, 2018 3:23:05 GMT 1, My thoughts are as follows: The art market, like everything, is cyclical. What once was the craze, reaches a saturation point and new/old combos resurface until some of them inevitably become the new craze. Some artists will stay true to their voice and not adapt or feel the need to. Others will respond and work new ideals/modes of working into their practice. Not say those are the only options for artists or that one is bad or good. Lastly, if you are even remotely interested in contemporary art, take a contemporsry art history class, learn/read more about the movements of the early 1900s (especially Dada) and appreciate the art genius of Marcel Duchamp.
My thoughts are as follows: The art market, like everything, is cyclical. What once was the craze, reaches a saturation point and new/old combos resurface until some of them inevitably become the new craze. Some artists will stay true to their voice and not adapt or feel the need to. Others will respond and work new ideals/modes of working into their practice. Not say those are the only options for artists or that one is bad or good. Lastly, if you are even remotely interested in contemporary art, take a contemporsry art history class, learn/read more about the movements of the early 1900s (especially Dada) and appreciate the art genius of Marcel Duchamp.
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Simococo
Junior Member
Posts โข 3,146
Likes โข 369
April 2007
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I THINK THE STREET ART MARKET IS DEAD. DO YOU?, by Simococo on Jul 26, 2018 9:28:37 GMT 1, If anyone has any affordable originals for sale (now the market is dead) by Nick Walker, Faile, Anthony Lister, Adam Neate, D*Face, Delta, Bast, Paul Insect, Eine, Blek Le Rat, The London Police or Sickboy then please get in touch. The market is alive!. I was offered nothing.....
If anyone has any affordable originals for sale (now the market is dead) by Nick Walker, Faile, Anthony Lister, Adam Neate, D*Face, Delta, Bast, Paul Insect, Eine, Blek Le Rat, The London Police or Sickboy then please get in touch. The market is alive!. I was offered nothing.....
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yorkie
New Member
Posts โข 867
Likes โข 708
June 2016
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I THINK THE STREET ART MARKET IS DEAD. DO YOU?, by yorkie on Jul 26, 2018 9:36:37 GMT 1, You think the street art market is dead - do i?
Easy...... NO.
You think the street art market is dead - do i?
Easy...... NO.
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Express Post
Junior Member
Posts โข 3,330
Likes โข 2,479
January 2008
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I THINK THE STREET ART MARKET IS DEAD. DO YOU?, by Express Post on Jul 26, 2018 9:58:08 GMT 1, No one wants to set themselves up for a spanking with major capital losses.
Market is definitely dead for those artists you listed...just people hodling onto them hoping to claw back cost.
If anyone has any affordable originals for sale (now the market is dead) by Nick Walker, Faile, Anthony Lister, Adam Neate, D*Face, Delta, Bast, Paul Insect, Eine, Blek Le Rat, The London Police or Sickboy then please get in touch. The market is alive!. I was offered nothing.....
No one wants to set themselves up for a spanking with major capital losses. Market is definitely dead for those artists you listed...just people hodling onto them hoping to claw back cost. If anyone has any affordable originals for sale (now the market is dead) by Nick Walker, Faile, Anthony Lister, Adam Neate, D*Face, Delta, Bast, Paul Insect, Eine, Blek Le Rat, The London Police or Sickboy then please get in touch. The market is alive!. I was offered nothing.....
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Pawel
Junior Member
Posts โข 3,736
Likes โข 3,223
June 2015
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I THINK THE STREET ART MARKET IS DEAD. DO YOU?, by Pawel on Jul 26, 2018 10:12:42 GMT 1,
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cyberkid
Junior Member
Posts โข 2,374
Likes โข 2,443
January 2015
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I THINK THE STREET ART MARKET IS DEAD. DO YOU?, by cyberkid on Jul 26, 2018 10:27:38 GMT 1, the first question would be the definition of "street art"....anyway.
the "contemporary urban art" market is not dead. its just the beginning. the "blue chips" are making the market - like jmb, haring, banksy, invader, kaws, shepard etc.
insignificant artists (like mr brainwash) will dissapear. its the same like during the pop art movement (and before surrealism, dada, cubism etc.)
the first question would be the definition of "street art"....anyway. the "contemporary urban art" market is not dead. its just the beginning. the "blue chips" are making the market - like jmb, haring, banksy, invader, kaws, shepard etc.
insignificant artists (like mr brainwash) will dissapear. its the same like during the pop art movement (and before surrealism, dada, cubism etc.)
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mope
New Member
Posts โข 17
Likes โข 8
May 2018
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I THINK THE STREET ART MARKET IS DEAD. DO YOU?, by mope on Jul 26, 2018 16:02:18 GMT 1, I HOPE IT IS FUCKING DEAD AND ROTTING
MARKETS ARE FOR CATTLE
TIME TO CULL MOST OF THE HERD
WHEN THE GOING GETS TOUGH THE TOUGH GET MALTHUSIAN
DEATH TO SHIT ART
I HOPE IT IS FUCKING DEAD AND ROTTING
MARKETS ARE FOR CATTLE
TIME TO CULL MOST OF THE HERD
WHEN THE GOING GETS TOUGH THE TOUGH GET MALTHUSIAN
DEATH TO SHIT ART
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Deleted
Posts โข 0
Likes โข
January 1970
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I THINK THE STREET ART MARKET IS DEAD. DO YOU?, by Deleted on Jul 26, 2018 17:49:03 GMT 1, I HOPE IT IS f**kingDEAD AND ROTTING MARKETS ARE FOR CATTLE TIME TO CULL MOST OF THE HERD WHEN THE GOING GETS TOUGH THE TOUGH GET MALTHUSIAN DEATH TOs**t ART Wow...
I HOPE IT IS f**kingDEAD AND ROTTING MARKETS ARE FOR CATTLE TIME TO CULL MOST OF THE HERD WHEN THE GOING GETS TOUGH THE TOUGH GET MALTHUSIAN DEATH TOs**t ART Wow...
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Simococo
Junior Member
Posts โข 3,146
Likes โข 369
April 2007
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I THINK THE STREET ART MARKET IS DEAD. DO YOU?, by Simococo on Jul 27, 2018 7:15:04 GMT 1, No one wants to set themselves up for a spanking with major capital losses. Market is definitely dead for those artists you listed...just people hodling onto them hoping to claw back cost. The market is alive!. I was offered nothing..... Clawing back cost is a very different position to the market is dead Very different I am also not trying to spank anyone
No one wants to set themselves up for a spanking with major capital losses. Market is definitely dead for those artists you listed...just people hodling onto them hoping to claw back cost. The market is alive!. I was offered nothing..... Clawing back cost is a very different position to the market is dead Very different I am also not trying to spank anyone
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Express Post
Junior Member
Posts โข 3,330
Likes โข 2,479
January 2008
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I THINK THE STREET ART MARKET IS DEAD. DO YOU?, by Express Post on Jul 27, 2018 7:56:20 GMT 1, Fair enough distinguishing dead market as opposed to weak market.
Then it would be fair to say that the reason no one has responded was because no one wanted to take an L.
No one wants to set themselves up for a spanking with major capital losses. Market is definitely dead for those artists you listed...just people hodling onto them hoping to claw back cost. Clawing back cost is a very different position to the market is deadย Very different I am also not trying to spank anyoneย
Fair enough distinguishing dead market as opposed to weak market. Then it would be fair to say that the reason no one has responded was because no one wanted to take an L. No one wants to set themselves up for a spanking with major capital losses. Market is definitely dead for those artists you listed...just people hodling onto them hoping to claw back cost. Clawing back cost is a very different position to the market is deadย Very different I am also not trying to spank anyoneย
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moron
Junior Member
Posts โข 2,711
Likes โข 1,050
September 2017
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I THINK THE STREET ART MARKET IS DEAD. DO YOU?, by moron on Jul 27, 2018 9:10:27 GMT 1, If the street art market is dead it's forums like this that have contributed to it's demise. The market is dead or in other words if one cannot make a quick large easy profit from yet another over priced samey print release on the flip forum then the market must be dead.
Rather than promoting street artists who work hard and particulary the ones who make those free hand words and names that are very abstract expressionist and virtually unreadable. People play safe and go for the names like Hirst, Miller,etc etc because they are gallery artists with their art sold to investors.
Greed and too many formulaic prints has taken street art market down a dark alley.
Even Banksy is not now a street artist plus despite what he said about galleries and museums etc he made sure that he produced enough prints and canvases etc to be sold in galleries and auction houses.
Invest in magic beans and with the profit buy original street art instead.
If the street art market is dead it's forums like this that have contributed to it's demise. The market is dead or in other words if one cannot make a quick large easy profit from yet another over priced samey print release on the flip forum then the market must be dead.
Rather than promoting street artists who work hard and particulary the ones who make those free hand words and names that are very abstract expressionist and virtually unreadable. People play safe and go for the names like Hirst, Miller,etc etc because they are gallery artists with their art sold to investors.
Greed and too many formulaic prints has taken street art market down a dark alley.
Even Banksy is not now a street artist plus despite what he said about galleries and museums etc he made sure that he produced enough prints and canvases etc to be sold in galleries and auction houses.
Invest in magic beans and with the profit buy original street art instead.
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