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January 1970
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I THINK THE STREET ART MARKET IS DEAD. DO YOU?, by Deleted on Jul 23, 2018 21:38:41 GMT 1, Fortunately, for people that really care, street art can never die as long as there are walls and cans of montana laying around. But as for an investors market, street/urban art is OVER.
In my humble opinion, street/urbanpop art collecting is currently dying, and the king wont lose his head, but he'll end up in a bad jousting accident, at least in terms of investment and sales. There will be a few noblemen that don't end up dead, and escape to another kingdom. But most of the citizens of Artsteros are surely in trouble.
I'm sure people will disagree, but prices have been falling, old classics like Bast and Rae have shown up in droves for sale with no buyers, and generally nobody wants graffiti anymore. The guys that are surviving are the ones that are not really street art at all, and although they have potentially produced art on the street, they are the ones producing true fine art. Look at canvas sales of Etam Cru, Connor Harringon, Harland Miller, Mehdi, these types of guys are the ones that will have a chance of living on.
But like many other art genres in the past, every fad has to eventually die. To me, the time has come.
I just cant see prices to continue going up. Unless you start doing ultra-high quality prints like Paul Insect through Avante Arte, the days of POW type printing of street artists are just finished. And all those old prints may hold some value, but not much in the long run. Maybe Banksy and Retna prices will continue to increase if current hedge-fund backed collectors keep adding to their collections. But say goodbye to all the average players, or just enjoy their work on your walls, as long as your not worried about your wallets. In another 10 years the bubble will just be a puddle on the floor, it started bursting already....
Of course, if you really love your art for the sake of art... none of this should matter anyway $-)
So.. am I dead wrong ? Are Martin Whatson, Ludo, and Sandra the future ?
Fortunately, for people that really care, street art can never die as long as there are walls and cans of montana laying around. But as for an investors market, street/urban art is OVER.
In my humble opinion, street/urbanpop art collecting is currently dying, and the king wont lose his head, but he'll end up in a bad jousting accident, at least in terms of investment and sales. There will be a few noblemen that don't end up dead, and escape to another kingdom. But most of the citizens of Artsteros are surely in trouble.
I'm sure people will disagree, but prices have been falling, old classics like Bast and Rae have shown up in droves for sale with no buyers, and generally nobody wants graffiti anymore. The guys that are surviving are the ones that are not really street art at all, and although they have potentially produced art on the street, they are the ones producing true fine art. Look at canvas sales of Etam Cru, Connor Harringon, Harland Miller, Mehdi, these types of guys are the ones that will have a chance of living on.
But like many other art genres in the past, every fad has to eventually die. To me, the time has come.
I just cant see prices to continue going up. Unless you start doing ultra-high quality prints like Paul Insect through Avante Arte, the days of POW type printing of street artists are just finished. And all those old prints may hold some value, but not much in the long run. Maybe Banksy and Retna prices will continue to increase if current hedge-fund backed collectors keep adding to their collections. But say goodbye to all the average players, or just enjoy their work on your walls, as long as your not worried about your wallets. In another 10 years the bubble will just be a puddle on the floor, it started bursting already....
Of course, if you really love your art for the sake of art... none of this should matter anyway $-)
So.. am I dead wrong ? Are Martin Whatson, Ludo, and Sandra the future ?
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I THINK THE STREET ART MARKET IS DEAD. DO YOU?, by Howard Johnson on Jul 23, 2018 21:53:53 GMT 1, This should be titled "the street art market is dead." IMO it's cancerous but not dead yet! What's happening is fairly commonplace, at the end of a movement (the movement has pretty much ran out of stream and transitioned to commissioned murals) the market will narrow significantly.
When I say "pop art" who do you think of? I'm guessing warhol, basquiat, Lichtenstein, and haring. Those 4 artists are only a small sliver of the artists in the pop movement but they were the front runners and their work continues to appreciate in value. The Patrick Negals of that movement were left in the dust.
Currently it looks like banksy, kaws, shepard Fairey, and potentially retna and invader are sure fire front runner investments. For the basts and dfaces it's tough to say whether they will continue to hold value. There have been some weird spikes recently, first invader and now insect, but not enough time has passed to see if those prices will hold. It's a gamble aside from those artists mentioned above, and I would not consider anything else a "solid investment."
In sum, by blue chip if you want a low risk investment, but that's not why we love this hobby....
This should be titled "the street art market is dead." IMO it's cancerous but not dead yet! What's happening is fairly commonplace, at the end of a movement (the movement has pretty much ran out of stream and transitioned to commissioned murals) the market will narrow significantly.
When I say "pop art" who do you think of? I'm guessing warhol, basquiat, Lichtenstein, and haring. Those 4 artists are only a small sliver of the artists in the pop movement but they were the front runners and their work continues to appreciate in value. The Patrick Negals of that movement were left in the dust.
Currently it looks like banksy, kaws, shepard Fairey, and potentially retna and invader are sure fire front runner investments. For the basts and dfaces it's tough to say whether they will continue to hold value. There have been some weird spikes recently, first invader and now insect, but not enough time has passed to see if those prices will hold. It's a gamble aside from those artists mentioned above, and I would not consider anything else a "solid investment."
In sum, by blue chip if you want a low risk investment, but that's not why we love this hobby....
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I THINK THE STREET ART MARKET IS DEAD. DO YOU?, by Coach on Jul 23, 2018 21:54:16 GMT 1, I thought from the tittle that this would be a thread about street art.
About whether there are still artists creating great street pieces. If so, who. That could have been an interesting discussion. Perhaps some pictures would have been shared of artists that we think are doing some great work at the moment. About areas where street art is emerging or growing. Where else it seems to be stagnating.
But it’s a thread about money and investing/bubbles bursting. Maybe the tittle needs changing?
In answer to the specific question asked, it has been happening for years that artists see a rise in their fame and it diminishes, whilst a few big names remain as popular as ever.
And, of course, any decline in confidence in the economy will temporarily effect art value.
Edit - the tittle of the thread was changed since I posted this.
I thought from the tittle that this would be a thread about street art.
About whether there are still artists creating great street pieces. If so, who. That could have been an interesting discussion. Perhaps some pictures would have been shared of artists that we think are doing some great work at the moment. About areas where street art is emerging or growing. Where else it seems to be stagnating.
But it’s a thread about money and investing/bubbles bursting. Maybe the tittle needs changing?
In answer to the specific question asked, it has been happening for years that artists see a rise in their fame and it diminishes, whilst a few big names remain as popular as ever.
And, of course, any decline in confidence in the economy will temporarily effect art value.
Edit - the tittle of the thread was changed since I posted this.
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Deleted
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January 1970
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I THINK THE STREET ART MARKET IS DEAD. DO YOU?, by Deleted on Jul 23, 2018 21:58:25 GMT 1, I thought from the tittle that this would be a thread about street art. About whether there are still artists creating great street pieces. If so, who. That could have been an interesting discussion. Perhaps some pictures would have been shared of artists that we think are doing some great work at the moment. About areas where street art is emerging or growing. Where else it seems to be stagnating. But it’s a thread about money and investing/bubbles bursting. Maybe the tittle needs changing? In answer to the specific question asked, it has been happening for years that artists see a rise in their fame and it diminishes, whilst a few big names remain as popular as ever. And, of course, any decline in confidence in the economy will temporarily effect art value.
I thought from the tittle that this would be a thread about street art. About whether there are still artists creating great street pieces. If so, who. That could have been an interesting discussion. Perhaps some pictures would have been shared of artists that we think are doing some great work at the moment. About areas where street art is emerging or growing. Where else it seems to be stagnating. But it’s a thread about money and investing/bubbles bursting. Maybe the tittle needs changing? In answer to the specific question asked, it has been happening for years that artists see a rise in their fame and it diminishes, whilst a few big names remain as popular as ever. And, of course, any decline in confidence in the economy will temporarily effect art value. I also don't get what street art has to do with investing, weird title is weird. Think it should read 'urban art'. |
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irl1
Full Member
Posts • 9,274
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December 2017
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I THINK THE STREET ART MARKET IS DEAD. DO YOU?, by irl1 on Jul 23, 2018 22:06:30 GMT 1, People starting painting/drawing in public places over 40,000 years ago  , so really you could say this was the street art of the time.
People starting painting/drawing in public places over 40,000 years ago , so really you could say this was the street art of the time. |
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whob1
New Member
Posts • 154
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October 2016
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I THINK THE STREET ART MARKET IS DEAD. DO YOU?, by whob1 on Jul 23, 2018 22:09:25 GMT 1, Agree will other comments. You have two conclusions: 1. Street art is dead. 2. Street art value will decline.
In the first sentence, you are claming that "1" is wrong No logic in that, but then we are left with "2". Last year: Pejac have gone up, Invader down..and so on so on with other artists
Agree will other comments. You have two conclusions: 1. Street art is dead. 2. Street art value will decline. In the first sentence, you are claming that "1" is wrong No logic in that, but then we are left with "2". Last year: Pejac have gone up, Invader down..and so on so on with other artists |
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Deleted
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January 1970
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I THINK THE STREET ART MARKET IS DEAD. DO YOU?, by Deleted on Jul 23, 2018 22:10:36 GMT 1, This should be titled "the street art market is dead." IMO it's cancerous but not dead yet! What's happening is fairly commonplace, at the end of a movement (the movement has pretty much ran out of stream and transitioned to commissioned murals) the market will narrow significantly. When I say "pop art" who do you think of? I'm guessing warhol, basquiat, Lichtenstein, and haring. Those 4 artists are only a small sliver of the artists in the pop movement but they were the front runners and their work continues to appreciate in value. The Patrick Negals of that movement were left in the dust. Currently it looks like banksy, kaws, shepard Fairey, and potentially retna and invader are sure fire front runner investments. For the basts and dfaces it's tough to say whether they will continue to hold value. There have been some weird spikes recently, first invader and now insect, but not enough time has passed to see if those prices will hold. It's a gamble aside from those artists mentioned above, and I would not consider anything else a "solid investment." In sum, by blue chip if you want a low risk investment, but that's not why we love this hobby....
and I FULLY agree with this, unless you don't care at all about the financial portion of buying something... "In sum, by blue chip if you want a low risk investment, but that's not why we love this hobby...."
This should be titled "the street art market is dead." IMO it's cancerous but not dead yet! What's happening is fairly commonplace, at the end of a movement (the movement has pretty much ran out of stream and transitioned to commissioned murals) the market will narrow significantly. When I say "pop art" who do you think of? I'm guessing warhol, basquiat, Lichtenstein, and haring. Those 4 artists are only a small sliver of the artists in the pop movement but they were the front runners and their work continues to appreciate in value. The Patrick Negals of that movement were left in the dust. Currently it looks like banksy, kaws, shepard Fairey, and potentially retna and invader are sure fire front runner investments. For the basts and dfaces it's tough to say whether they will continue to hold value. There have been some weird spikes recently, first invader and now insect, but not enough time has passed to see if those prices will hold. It's a gamble aside from those artists mentioned above, and I would not consider anything else a "solid investment." In sum, by blue chip if you want a low risk investment, but that's not why we love this hobby.... I agree, so much so that I changed the title - and I FULLY agree with this, unless you don't care at all about the financial portion of buying something... "In sum, by blue chip if you want a low risk investment, but that's not why we love this hobby...." |
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moron
Junior Member
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September 2017
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I THINK THE STREET ART MARKET IS DEAD. DO YOU?, by moron on Jul 23, 2018 22:14:48 GMT 1, I get the OP's point. Basically people are only interested in street art if it's flippable or bought as an investment. If prices take a downward turn and buyers move towards more traditional artists who make art for galleries and collectors and in another direction, then less interest from the public too could mean that painting on walls to sell prints etc becomes yesterdays thing. Like clackers and space hoppers.
I get the OP's point. Basically people are only interested in street art if it's flippable or bought as an investment. If prices take a downward turn and buyers move towards more traditional artists who make art for galleries and collectors and in another direction, then less interest from the public too could mean that painting on walls to sell prints etc becomes yesterdays thing. Like clackers and space hoppers.
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I THINK THE STREET ART MARKET IS DEAD. DO YOU?, by Howard Johnson on Jul 23, 2018 22:26:59 GMT 1, Question for those educated in economics:
Ithe price falls on urban works in general, say banksy stays strong but everything else drops like 40%, is there a possibility for a second wave of collectors and another wave of appreciation in value? It would seem that more people would like to collect but cant afford it, and with lower prices across the board it would seem that the natural result would be a new lower-income collector base. Or maybe people just move on to the current flavor of the month (i.e. Pejac, sorry to his fans, and his work is very very strong, but I see a hayak type decline once he's not the new kid on the block)
Question for those educated in economics:
Ithe price falls on urban works in general, say banksy stays strong but everything else drops like 40%, is there a possibility for a second wave of collectors and another wave of appreciation in value? It would seem that more people would like to collect but cant afford it, and with lower prices across the board it would seem that the natural result would be a new lower-income collector base. Or maybe people just move on to the current flavor of the month (i.e. Pejac, sorry to his fans, and his work is very very strong, but I see a hayak type decline once he's not the new kid on the block)
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gd79
Junior Member
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September 2015
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I THINK THE STREET ART MARKET IS DEAD. DO YOU?, by gd79 on Jul 23, 2018 22:57:27 GMT 1, All economics can tell you is that none of this stuff has any intrinsic value. No dividend flows, no break up value, nothing. It's expensive to own, maintain and insure. But it brings us joy and therefore has an implied value. Furthermore, for most of the art discussed here, there is a speculative value as well.
Now, if prices fall 40%, the whole concept of a speculative value crashes and burns. That sorts out the difference between art that is decorative (and brings us pleasure) and that which has true investment value, and is in some way important.
This is where substitutes becomes important. True investment art is exceedingly rare. There is no substitute for a banksy. You can't recreate the investment potential by buying a couple of a.n.other street artist.
Decorative art is everywhere. You can make it yourself, you can buy prints at every price point, you can commission a local student. The job of a gallery/promotor/forum member is to convince the world that something is more than just decorative. They invent back stories, lotteries, hype, buy clicks etc. Sometimes it is self fulfilling.
In economics terms, you also have an assymetry of information. No-one can actually pin point what separates the decorative from the important. There is nothing ex-ante that tells you banksy would become banksy, while (hypothetically) some smart graffiti artist somewhere else stayed unknown. Buyers don't know, and sellers don't know. So everyone looks for signals. In the art world, this is called branding.
Brands are the big 2-3 auction houses, a few collectors, museums etc.
But no brand wants to be associated with a loser. If prices tanked, they'd move on. The signals vanished. Indeed, prices rarely fall by 40%. They go up as a brand is built, or go to zero.
Take away the signal that an artist has value, and immediately it no longer does (other than decorative). Even banksy... Let's say, again hypothetically, that a run of 4-5 prints and a couple of originals really tanked at auction. Got passed it went for way below reserve. This forum would be swimming with prints for sale, the auction houses wouldn't bother, galleries would starve. Banksy prints would be worth what they once were - the price you'd pay to have something great on your wall.
All economics can tell you is that none of this stuff has any intrinsic value. No dividend flows, no break up value, nothing. It's expensive to own, maintain and insure. But it brings us joy and therefore has an implied value. Furthermore, for most of the art discussed here, there is a speculative value as well.
Now, if prices fall 40%, the whole concept of a speculative value crashes and burns. That sorts out the difference between art that is decorative (and brings us pleasure) and that which has true investment value, and is in some way important.
This is where substitutes becomes important. True investment art is exceedingly rare. There is no substitute for a banksy. You can't recreate the investment potential by buying a couple of a.n.other street artist.
Decorative art is everywhere. You can make it yourself, you can buy prints at every price point, you can commission a local student. The job of a gallery/promotor/forum member is to convince the world that something is more than just decorative. They invent back stories, lotteries, hype, buy clicks etc. Sometimes it is self fulfilling.
In economics terms, you also have an assymetry of information. No-one can actually pin point what separates the decorative from the important. There is nothing ex-ante that tells you banksy would become banksy, while (hypothetically) some smart graffiti artist somewhere else stayed unknown. Buyers don't know, and sellers don't know. So everyone looks for signals. In the art world, this is called branding.
Brands are the big 2-3 auction houses, a few collectors, museums etc.
But no brand wants to be associated with a loser. If prices tanked, they'd move on. The signals vanished. Indeed, prices rarely fall by 40%. They go up as a brand is built, or go to zero.
Take away the signal that an artist has value, and immediately it no longer does (other than decorative). Even banksy... Let's say, again hypothetically, that a run of 4-5 prints and a couple of originals really tanked at auction. Got passed it went for way below reserve. This forum would be swimming with prints for sale, the auction houses wouldn't bother, galleries would starve. Banksy prints would be worth what they once were - the price you'd pay to have something great on your wall.
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Deleted
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January 1970
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I THINK THE STREET ART MARKET IS DEAD. DO YOU?, by Deleted on Jul 23, 2018 23:02:57 GMT 1, gd79
Great post, good job
I was going to say the same ;-)
gd79Great post, good job I was going to say the same ;-)
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moron
Junior Member
Posts • 2,711
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September 2017
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I THINK THE STREET ART MARKET IS DEAD. DO YOU?, by moron on Jul 23, 2018 23:06:45 GMT 1, Question for those educated in economics: Ithe price falls on urban works in general, say banksy stays strong but everything else drops like 40%, is there a possibility for a second wave of collectors and another wave of appreciation in value? It would seem that more people would like to collect but cant afford it, and with lower prices across the board it would seem that the natural result would be a new lower-income collector base. Or maybe people just move on to the current flavor of the month (i.e. Pejac, sorry to his fans, and his work is very very strong, but I see a hayak type decline once he's not the new kid on the block)
Maybe artists will decide to issue less prints per year rather than lowering prices.
Pejac is talented, he can paint and sculpt and has a long way to go.
Question for those educated in economics: Ithe price falls on urban works in general, say banksy stays strong but everything else drops like 40%, is there a possibility for a second wave of collectors and another wave of appreciation in value? It would seem that more people would like to collect but cant afford it, and with lower prices across the board it would seem that the natural result would be a new lower-income collector base. Or maybe people just move on to the current flavor of the month (i.e. Pejac, sorry to his fans, and his work is very very strong, but I see a hayak type decline once he's not the new kid on the block) I think there will always be collectors or buyers. I think also that some people will lose confidence in this market as it could be seen as a bubble. Maybe artists will decide to issue less prints per year rather than lowering prices. Pejac is talented, he can paint and sculpt and has a long way to go. |
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hui
New Member
Posts • 289
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October 2017
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I THINK THE STREET ART MARKET IS DEAD. DO YOU?, by hui on Jul 23, 2018 23:15:37 GMT 1, Is there a difference between it being a fad or it being dead?
And the market doesn't die...it just re-adjusted, correct? Let's face it, somes**t which is view as grails are just plain terrible. I don't mind. Investors are use to losing money, I imagine. Lovers can purchase at a cheaper price.
And even then, there's a difference between originals and prints, no? I purchase prints, but I also seek original art as well. Purchasing prints feels like I'm collecting cards or something at times - a feeling I hate.
Is there a difference between it being a fad or it being dead?
And the market doesn't die...it just re-adjusted, correct? Let's face it, somes**t which is view as grails are just plain terrible. I don't mind. Investors are use to losing money, I imagine. Lovers can purchase at a cheaper price.
And even then, there's a difference between originals and prints, no? I purchase prints, but I also seek original art as well. Purchasing prints feels like I'm collecting cards or something at times - a feeling I hate.
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chevyav53
Junior Member
Posts • 1,356
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August 2017
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I THINK THE STREET ART MARKET IS DEAD. DO YOU?, by chevyav53 on Jul 23, 2018 23:48:30 GMT 1, Talking about street art being dead or declining here is like going to a muscle car forum to talk about how muscle cars are in decline.
Unless talking about prices with data you can't have an objective discussion in a specific forum with so much passion and emotion for that particular subject.
Talking about street art being dead or declining here is like going to a muscle car forum to talk about how muscle cars are in decline.
Unless talking about prices with data you can't have an objective discussion in a specific forum with so much passion and emotion for that particular subject.
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martin0098
New Member
Posts • 102
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June 2018
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I THINK THE STREET ART MARKET IS DEAD. DO YOU?, by martin0098 on Jul 24, 2018 0:14:52 GMT 1, Very interesting thread for which everyone can hold different opinion.
No matter what angle each of us is taking in the urban art world, it's actually not bad to take a moment to look back and look down.
Very interesting thread for which everyone can hold different opinion.
No matter what angle each of us is taking in the urban art world, it's actually not bad to take a moment to look back and look down.
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Angel O
Artist
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Posts • 9
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July 2016
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I THINK THE STREET ART MARKET IS DEAD. DO YOU?, by Angel O on Jul 24, 2018 0:15:02 GMT 1, when you walk through the Tate's exploration of artworks from 1545 to the present day you can clearly see a decline OR changes in art works. luckily when you get to the end it starts all over again. evolution is great 
when you walk through the Tate's exploration of artworks from 1545 to the present day you can clearly see a decline OR changes in art works. luckily when you get to the end it starts all over again. evolution is great |
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butterknife
New Member
Posts • 78
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March 2018
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I THINK THE STREET ART MARKET IS DEAD. DO YOU?, by butterknife on Jul 24, 2018 0:34:40 GMT 1, Banksy birthed it, Banksy killed it. C'est la vie.
The rest was just always a hobby.
Banksy birthed it, Banksy killed it. C'est la vie.
The rest was just always a hobby.
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laguy34
New Member
Posts • 70
Likes • 93
August 2013
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I THINK THE STREET ART MARKET IS DEAD. DO YOU?, by laguy34 on Jul 24, 2018 1:46:31 GMT 1, The street art market isn't even close to being dead.
The street art market isn't even close to being dead.
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I THINK THE STREET ART MARKET IS DEAD. DO YOU?, by Yeah Yeah Yeah Round2 on Jul 24, 2018 6:31:31 GMT 1, Its dead as a dodo whether you like it or not. For example, this forum is a shadow of its former self. Will the last person to leave turn off the lights.
All forums are pretty much dead (apart from Posterbob’s weekly review) and while some would say that social media have killed them, I think it’s more the fact that a lot of forums consist of the same people saying the same things (sometimes good things) and trying to sell off overpriced prints.
The markets not dead, it’s just moved up quite a few levels and out of reach of my wallet. The €£$100 print has now become the 1000 quid print. The more zeros added the more hype it gets. When the hype dies down, people move, but then you get a few people (I hate the terms collectors, fans etc), that hang on and discuss street art for what it is and don’t turn light off. (Next week this forum will most probably be shut down and gone lol).
Its dead as a dodo whether you like it or not. For example, this forum is a shadow of its former self. Will the last person to leave turn off the lights. All forums are pretty much dead (apart from Posterbob’s weekly review) and while some would say that social media have killed them, I think it’s more the fact that a lot of forums consist of the same people saying the same things (sometimes good things) and trying to sell off overpriced prints. The markets not dead, it’s just moved up quite a few levels and out of reach of my wallet. The €£$100 print has now become the 1000 quid print. The more zeros added the more hype it gets. When the hype dies down, people move, but then you get a few people (I hate the terms collectors, fans etc), that hang on and discuss street art for what it is and don’t turn light off. (Next week this forum will most probably be shut down and gone lol). |
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J0NNY
Junior Member
Posts • 1,027
Likes • 692
December 2014
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I THINK THE STREET ART MARKET IS DEAD. DO YOU?, by J0NNY on Jul 24, 2018 6:42:24 GMT 1, Collectors are still buying lots of Art and Arists are still doing well. it's peoples ability to make semi instant profit on the work that may have slowed down. People buying it for the wrong reason doesn't help, work rarely ends up with people that want to enjoy it for years. For example More people are purchasing £1200 Paul Insect prints and expecting to double there money like the do flipping Nike's.
This.
The sneaker & supreme resellers have ran the short term gains in those markets into the ground, it seems like the same thing is happening in the urban art market too.
It’s almost like there is more demand to buy to resell immediately than there is to buy to keep for a longer term.
It comes with good points, as esp in the sneaker game people quickly panic when their shoes don’t sell within 15 minutes of having purchased them, a lot of the time you can purchase very near cost - without the effort of having to try for the drop.
Collectors are still buying lots of Art and Arists are still doing well. it's peoples ability to make semi instant profit on the work that may have slowed down. People buying it for the wrong reason doesn't help, work rarely ends up with people that want to enjoy it for years. For example More people are purchasing £1200 Paul Insect prints and expecting to double there money like the do flipping Nike's. This. The sneaker & supreme resellers have ran the short term gains in those markets into the ground, it seems like the same thing is happening in the urban art market too. It’s almost like there is more demand to buy to resell immediately than there is to buy to keep for a longer term. It comes with good points, as esp in the sneaker game people quickly panic when their shoes don’t sell within 15 minutes of having purchased them, a lot of the time you can purchase very near cost - without the effort of having to try for the drop. |
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Carl Cashman
Artist
Junior Member
Posts • 1,775
Likes • 3,147
August 2017
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I THINK THE STREET ART MARKET IS DEAD. DO YOU?, by Carl Cashman on Jul 24, 2018 6:49:55 GMT 1, I accidentally deleted my post:
Collectors are still buying lots of Art and Arists are still doing well. it's peoples ability to make semi instant profit on the work that may have slowed down.
People buying it for the wrong reason doesn't help, work rarely ends up with people that want to enjoy it for years. For example More people are purchasing £1200 Paul Insect prints and expecting to double there money like the do flipping Nike's.
I accidentally deleted my post:
Collectors are still buying lots of Art and Arists are still doing well. it's peoples ability to make semi instant profit on the work that may have slowed down.
People buying it for the wrong reason doesn't help, work rarely ends up with people that want to enjoy it for years. For example More people are purchasing £1200 Paul Insect prints and expecting to double there money like the do flipping Nike's.
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Carl Cashman
Artist
Junior Member
Posts • 1,775
Likes • 3,147
August 2017
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I THINK THE STREET ART MARKET IS DEAD. DO YOU?, by Carl Cashman on Jul 24, 2018 6:52:43 GMT 1, Collectors are still buying lots of Art and Arists are still doing well. it's peoples ability to make semi instant profit on the work that may have slowed down. People buying it for the wrong reason doesn't help, work rarely ends up with people that want to enjoy it for years. For example More people are purchasing £1200 Paul Insect prints and expecting to double there money like the do flipping Nike's. This. The sneaker & supreme resellers have ran the short term gains in those markets into the ground, it seems like the same thing is happening in the urban art market too. It’s almost like there is more demand to buy to resell immediately than there is to buy to keep for a longer term. It comes with good points, as esp in the sneaker game people quickly panic when their shoes don’t sell within 15 minutes of having purchased them, a lot of the time you can purchase very near cost - without the effort of having to try for the drop.
When collectors can no longer afford to collect, the arse drops out of the market. It would be interesting to know how long the average collector keeps a work now before it gets moved on.
Collectors are still buying lots of Art and Arists are still doing well. it's peoples ability to make semi instant profit on the work that may have slowed down. People buying it for the wrong reason doesn't help, work rarely ends up with people that want to enjoy it for years. For example More people are purchasing £1200 Paul Insect prints and expecting to double there money like the do flipping Nike's. This. The sneaker & supreme resellers have ran the short term gains in those markets into the ground, it seems like the same thing is happening in the urban art market too. It’s almost like there is more demand to buy to resell immediately than there is to buy to keep for a longer term. It comes with good points, as esp in the sneaker game people quickly panic when their shoes don’t sell within 15 minutes of having purchased them, a lot of the time you can purchase very near cost - without the effort of having to try for the drop. When collectors can no longer afford to collect, the arse drops out of the market. It would be interesting to know how long the average collector keeps a work now before it gets moved on. |
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thomasmer
Junior Member
Posts • 1,107
Likes • 565
July 2014
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I THINK THE STREET ART MARKET IS DEAD. DO YOU?, by thomasmer on Jul 24, 2018 7:02:23 GMT 1, Sounds like a Daily Mail Headline.
Sounds like a Daily Mail Headline.
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I THINK THE STREET ART MARKET IS DEAD. DO YOU?, by Yeah Yeah Yeah Round2 on Jul 24, 2018 7:14:50 GMT 1, This. The sneaker & supreme resellers have ran the short term gains in those markets into the ground, it seems like the same thing is happening in the urban art market too. It’s almost like there is more demand to buy to resell immediately than there is to buy to keep for a longer term. It comes with good points, as esp in the sneaker game people quickly panic when their shoes don’t sell within 15 minutes of having purchased them, a lot of the time you can purchase very near cost - without the effort of having to try for the drop. When collectors can no longer afford to collect, the arse drops out of the market. It would be interesting to know how long the average collector keeps a work now before it gets moved on.
I do wonder if there’s a panic sale, once the price starts dipping.
This. The sneaker & supreme resellers have ran the short term gains in those markets into the ground, it seems like the same thing is happening in the urban art market too. It’s almost like there is more demand to buy to resell immediately than there is to buy to keep for a longer term. It comes with good points, as esp in the sneaker game people quickly panic when their shoes don’t sell within 15 minutes of having purchased them, a lot of the time you can purchase very near cost - without the effort of having to try for the drop. When collectors can no longer afford to collect, the arse drops out of the market. It would be interesting to know how long the average collector keeps a work now before it gets moved on. I do wonder if there’s a panic sale, once the price starts dipping. |
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iamzero
Full Member
Posts • 9,190
Likes • 8,542
May 2011
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I THINK THE STREET ART MARKET IS DEAD. DO YOU?, by iamzero on Jul 24, 2018 7:18:39 GMT 1, I think Seen has done a great thing of resurrecting his market by creating affordable originals rather than those expensive elitist canvases galleries sell and also artists like Sweet Toof that prices things for the average collectors pocket.
I think Seen has done a great thing of resurrecting his market by creating affordable originals rather than those expensive elitist canvases galleries sell and also artists like Sweet Toof that prices things for the average collectors pocket.
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Unica
Junior Member
Posts • 2,058
Likes • 1,220
November 2013
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I THINK THE STREET ART MARKET IS DEAD. DO YOU?, by Unica on Jul 24, 2018 7:28:42 GMT 1, Looking 20 years down the road, I'd think the likes of Banksy, KAWS, Invader will be household names and their work coveted. The others well, I'm not so confident and I don't buy them for investment, but because I like them.
Looking 20 years down the road, I'd think the likes of Banksy, KAWS, Invader will be household names and their work coveted. The others well, I'm not so confident and I don't buy them for investment, but because I like them.
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Jaylove
Junior Member
Posts • 1,596
Likes • 1,073
November 2016
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I THINK THE STREET ART MARKET IS DEAD. DO YOU?, by Jaylove on Jul 24, 2018 8:01:58 GMT 1, I have always said the market reminds me of the sneaker market. Once it exploded and everyone became a flipper it went tos**t. Shoe companies started coming out with exclusive releases in limited numbers to generate hype. All of a sudden releases had lineups. Those lineups turned to raffles. I got sick of that crap and sold all my sneakers. Every artist now wants a piece of the pie by making a big production of every release, every gallery same thing and buyers assigning value based on what they can flip it for.
I’ve slowed down a lot. 1 print this year. I love this stuff but I simply can’t pay flipper prices ina bubble. Was buying so much art I didn’t realize my living room furniture was starting to look likes**t. So I’m more focussed on that. No flipper prices to deal with. Also went on a trip to Barbados for the price of a Paul Insect. Going to Chicago next month. Puts things in perspective.
I’ll still collect the odd print but I’m not dealing with hyped releases bougie galleries or mindless flippers. Has never been about investment for me. But the less hyped artists are charging more and I’m not made of money. $50 prints going for $300. I’m a regular dude. The game isn’t for me. What really had me thinking is I bought an overpriced print by a hyped artist. Took months for it to arrive and when it did, damaged. Gallery mailed a new one a month later, damaged. Gallery spent the next 2 months ignoring me brushing me off and excusing their lack of response because they were all over the world doing shows. That really stuck with me. Got my money back and have not had any desire to buy anything since.
PS when the bubble bursts I will be ready to buy.
I have always said the market reminds me of the sneaker market. Once it exploded and everyone became a flipper it went tos**t. Shoe companies started coming out with exclusive releases in limited numbers to generate hype. All of a sudden releases had lineups. Those lineups turned to raffles. I got sick of that crap and sold all my sneakers. Every artist now wants a piece of the pie by making a big production of every release, every gallery same thing and buyers assigning value based on what they can flip it for.
I’ve slowed down a lot. 1 print this year. I love this stuff but I simply can’t pay flipper prices ina bubble. Was buying so much art I didn’t realize my living room furniture was starting to look likes**t. So I’m more focussed on that. No flipper prices to deal with. Also went on a trip to Barbados for the price of a Paul Insect. Going to Chicago next month. Puts things in perspective.
I’ll still collect the odd print but I’m not dealing with hyped releases bougie galleries or mindless flippers. Has never been about investment for me. But the less hyped artists are charging more and I’m not made of money. $50 prints going for $300. I’m a regular dude. The game isn’t for me. What really had me thinking is I bought an overpriced print by a hyped artist. Took months for it to arrive and when it did, damaged. Gallery mailed a new one a month later, damaged. Gallery spent the next 2 months ignoring me brushing me off and excusing their lack of response because they were all over the world doing shows. That really stuck with me. Got my money back and have not had any desire to buy anything since.
PS when the bubble bursts I will be ready to buy.
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Express Post
Junior Member
Posts • 3,330
Likes • 2,479
January 2008
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I THINK THE STREET ART MARKET IS DEAD. DO YOU?, by Express Post on Jul 24, 2018 8:17:28 GMT 1, Street Art Market is broad and nebulous.
Some artists want to be associated, others don't.
Probably best to discuss each artist as their own market.
Artists that used to be hyped here at the same time as Banksy were Adam Neate, Micallef, Faile, Bäst, Nick Walker.
You had some really fat heads that were proud as punch when they purchased a piece by those artists not Banksy and the secondary prices went up.
Now look at em. Mugs and plums.
The technical painting skills for Faile and Bäst are crap, but the vocal minority at the time were getting boners over the lashings of thick paint that were silkscreened over. If you looked at the masters, and learned anything from art school, this did nothing for art and Rauschenburg already did it.
I think artist careers die, and some are born, and the Street Art Market is definitely the former given the number of street artist's markets who have tanked.
Street Art Market is broad and nebulous.
Some artists want to be associated, others don't.
Probably best to discuss each artist as their own market.
Artists that used to be hyped here at the same time as Banksy were Adam Neate, Micallef, Faile, Bäst, Nick Walker.
You had some really fat heads that were proud as punch when they purchased a piece by those artists not Banksy and the secondary prices went up.
Now look at em. Mugs and plums.
The technical painting skills for Faile and Bäst are crap, but the vocal minority at the time were getting boners over the lashings of thick paint that were silkscreened over. If you looked at the masters, and learned anything from art school, this did nothing for art and Rauschenburg already did it.
I think artist careers die, and some are born, and the Street Art Market is definitely the former given the number of street artist's markets who have tanked.
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I THINK THE STREET ART MARKET IS DEAD. DO YOU?, by Schrödinger's Chat on Jul 24, 2018 8:26:51 GMT 1, The market definitely seems to move in a cycle of boom and then bust for some artists, whilst others carry on steadily selling with more of a dedicated fan base (presumably) or at least not such a strong flippers/secondary market appeal.
When I first joined 4 years ago their was a lot of hype around Dolk. Now I can't remember the last time anyone posted about him.
The market definitely seems to move in a cycle of boom and then bust for some artists, whilst others carry on steadily selling with more of a dedicated fan base (presumably) or at least not such a strong flippers/secondary market appeal.
When I first joined 4 years ago their was a lot of hype around Dolk. Now I can't remember the last time anyone posted about him.
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I THINK THE STREET ART MARKET IS DEAD. DO YOU?, by Yeah Yeah Yeah Round2 on Jul 24, 2018 8:30:06 GMT 1, I think Seen has done a great thing of resurrecting his market by creating affordable originals rather than those expensive elitist canvases galleries sell and also artists like Sweet Toof that prices things for the average collectors pocket.
Seen prices were always affordable through blackmarket in France. Thankfully, buying direct keeps his prices down.
I think Seen has done a great thing of resurrecting his market by creating affordable originals rather than those expensive elitist canvases galleries sell and also artists like Sweet Toof that prices things for the average collectors pocket. Seen prices were always affordable through blackmarket in France. Thankfully, buying direct keeps his prices down. |
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, so really you could say this was the street art of the time.
