achtungbono
Junior Member
Posts โข 1,093
Likes โข 156
May 2008
|
So where did it all go wrong?, by achtungbono on Dec 16, 2008 11:04:25 GMT 1, One upon a time, this forum was a cheery place, with a core of ( dare I say it ) Art enthusiasts, discussing, swapping and trading niche art
Ive just been through the past 24 hours new posts and quite frankly, it makes grim reading on the whole
A few posts talking about art aside, the entire subtext of greed & aquisition has finally come out into the open - slaggings/ bitterness/ ebay auctions sabotaging / smugness...A very festive place to be
I didnt get any of the latest Banksy output, but life goes on & I can live without them if I were to be straight - Im sure people will defend the latest batch to the death now that they are worth 3-4x on the open market, but are they good images ?
Im not so sure about that. Of course, its all personal taste & there isnt any right or wrong when it comes to taste, but is it possible to detach financial worth from artistic merit ? It would seem to be a very grey area for many, judging by the opinions expressed by some.
The bearded proto hippy that stuck up the A4 poster at the POW open day ,emblazoned with the legend" Im SO glad I put all my money in a Bank..sy" seems to have hit the nail square on the head
Its a piece of paper people, thats it. Many contributors have escaped to other pastures or just stopped posting at all.
I saw a woman going into a Gift Shoppe in SE22 a few weeks back , spending ยฃ60 and emerging with a couple of A4 printed canvases of Iconic Banksy for the walls. I have a sneaking respect for this woman in some ways, more so than the victims that spend sleepless nights refreshing a site for the opportunity to buy a weak image for several hundred pounds
Is it about the image any longer, or is a Banksy on the wall now just an obese ยฃ sign in a frame ?
Its about the image, not the object and I feel many have forgotten this crucial point
Feel free to slag if you wish, Im thick skinned enough to accomodate virtual abuse. On the other hand, lets be adults & discuss...
One upon a time, this forum was a cheery place, with a core of ( dare I say it ) Art enthusiasts, discussing, swapping and trading niche art
Ive just been through the past 24 hours new posts and quite frankly, it makes grim reading on the whole
A few posts talking about art aside, the entire subtext of greed & aquisition has finally come out into the open - slaggings/ bitterness/ ebay auctions sabotaging / smugness...A very festive place to be
I didnt get any of the latest Banksy output, but life goes on & I can live without them if I were to be straight - Im sure people will defend the latest batch to the death now that they are worth 3-4x on the open market, but are they good images ?
Im not so sure about that. Of course, its all personal taste & there isnt any right or wrong when it comes to taste, but is it possible to detach financial worth from artistic merit ? It would seem to be a very grey area for many, judging by the opinions expressed by some.
The bearded proto hippy that stuck up the A4 poster at the POW open day ,emblazoned with the legend" Im SO glad I put all my money in a Bank..sy" seems to have hit the nail square on the head
Its a piece of paper people, thats it. Many contributors have escaped to other pastures or just stopped posting at all.
I saw a woman going into a Gift Shoppe in SE22 a few weeks back , spending ยฃ60 and emerging with a couple of A4 printed canvases of Iconic Banksy for the walls. I have a sneaking respect for this woman in some ways, more so than the victims that spend sleepless nights refreshing a site for the opportunity to buy a weak image for several hundred pounds
Is it about the image any longer, or is a Banksy on the wall now just an obese ยฃ sign in a frame ?
Its about the image, not the object and I feel many have forgotten this crucial point
Feel free to slag if you wish, Im thick skinned enough to accomodate virtual abuse. On the other hand, lets be adults & discuss...
|
|
|
|
So where did it all go wrong?, by illy on Dec 16, 2008 11:06:30 GMT 1, I'll second that... lots of sad, immature, selfish people on here!
I'll second that... lots of sad, immature, selfish people on here!
|
|
romanywg
Junior Member
Posts โข 4,093
Likes โข 36
October 2006
|
So where did it all go wrong?, by romanywg on Dec 16, 2008 11:11:19 GMT 1, If we still had the respect system I would give you one...... Respect that is, nail hit firmly on head.
If we still had the respect system I would give you one...... Respect that is, nail hit firmly on head.
|
|
Karl Read
Artist
Junior Member
Posts โข 3,555
Likes โข 628
April 2008
|
So where did it all go wrong?, by Karl Read on Dec 16, 2008 11:13:02 GMT 1, I'll second that... lots of sad, immature, selfish people on here!
I'll second that... lots of sad, immature, selfish people on here! |
|
|
|
So where did it all go wrong?, by Guest on Dec 16, 2008 11:14:18 GMT 1, very well said.
a forum is only as good as its members, and we seem to be losing too many of the good ones.
very well said.
a forum is only as good as its members, and we seem to be losing too many of the good ones.
|
|
|
|
So where did it all go wrong?, by hero on Dec 16, 2008 11:14:40 GMT 1, i have not been on the forum long, but i would say that people do still trade art and sell it at cost- i myself picked up some art work at cost
i would say that I do have respect for the people who are nice and treat me with the the same respect
H
i have not been on the forum long, but i would say that people do still trade art and sell it at cost- i myself picked up some art work at cost
i would say that I do have respect for the people who are nice and treat me with the the same respect
H
|
|
|
|
howlinjack
New Member
Posts โข 615
Likes โข 55
July 2006
|
So where did it all go wrong?, by howlinjack on Dec 16, 2008 11:15:54 GMT 1, 10% art, 30% moaning 60% greed.
10% art, 30% moaning 60% greed.
|
|
darrenrapley
Junior Member
Posts โข 1,858
Likes โข 229
June 2008
|
So where did it all go wrong?, by darrenrapley on Dec 16, 2008 11:16:12 GMT 1, I am relatively new here and so didn't know when it was any different.
It can get pretty venomous in here which makes me think very carefully about any posting and sometimes not ask the questions that I actually want to ask for fear of sarcastic replies.
But - I have also been in contact with some very decent folk who have lots of knowledge (check banksyforum.proboards82.com/index.cgi?board=general&action=display&thread=6070 as an example) and also loads of framing ideas which have saved me a fortune in framing mistakes.
I am relatively new here and so didn't know when it was any different. It can get pretty venomous in here which makes me think very carefully about any posting and sometimes not ask the questions that I actually want to ask for fear of sarcastic replies. But - I have also been in contact with some very decent folk who have lots of knowledge (check banksyforum.proboards82.com/index.cgi?board=general&action=display&thread=6070 as an example) and also loads of framing ideas which have saved me a fortune in framing mistakes. |
|
origo
Junior Member
Posts โข 1,973
Likes โข 512
April 2008
|
So where did it all go wrong?, by origo on Dec 16, 2008 11:17:26 GMT 1, I donยดt wanna get in a big discussion about this, but it not a new phenomenon this.
Where there is money there are people trying to score a quick buck, and when supply is so small and demand is so big you get this result no matter what the product may be.
Instead I think it would be much more interesting discussing idealisms like capitalism, and how it fits very well with human nature and that is probably also the reason why it has won, for now...
When people sell at cost itยดs because they canยดt get more than that or because of personal relations.
I donยดt wanna get in a big discussion about this, but it not a new phenomenon this.
Where there is money there are people trying to score a quick buck, and when supply is so small and demand is so big you get this result no matter what the product may be.
Instead I think it would be much more interesting discussing idealisms like capitalism, and how it fits very well with human nature and that is probably also the reason why it has won, for now...
When people sell at cost itยดs because they canยดt get more than that or because of personal relations.
|
|
BME
New Member
Posts โข 799
Likes โข 74
December 2006
|
So where did it all go wrong?, by BME on Dec 16, 2008 11:19:48 GMT 1, I know how you feel but there are plenty of decent people... Don't give up 
I know how you feel but there are plenty of decent people... Don't give up |
|
|
|
So where did it all go wrong?, by alsbabar on Dec 16, 2008 11:19:50 GMT 1, it went wrong around 2 months ago, when people started speculating about Santas Ghetto, where is it going to be, whats going to be released - the money side comes out. Nola release case in example - the lurkers and leeches coming out of the woodwork - the instant flippers. However this isnt the norm on this site - it is the norm around Banksy releases. There have been some fantastic discussions and points of view and some great art put on display - once the Banksy furore dies down, conversations about art will resurface. Its the evolution of this site, its an unpleasant part of it, but the maturer, more level headed people, need to stick around, and let it run its course.
Thats my tuppence worth
it went wrong around 2 months ago, when people started speculating about Santas Ghetto, where is it going to be, whats going to be released - the money side comes out. Nola release case in example - the lurkers and leeches coming out of the woodwork - the instant flippers. However this isnt the norm on this site - it is the norm around Banksy releases. There have been some fantastic discussions and points of view and some great art put on display - once the Banksy furore dies down, conversations about art will resurface. Its the evolution of this site, its an unpleasant part of it, but the maturer, more level headed people, need to stick around, and let it run its course.
Thats my tuppence worth
|
|
anthoz
New Member
Posts โข 34
Likes โข 0
December 2010
|
So where did it all go wrong?, by anthoz on Dec 16, 2008 11:20:47 GMT 1, It used to be about art discussions and having fun with people who shared the same interests.
This place is now a trading post, gallery frontage and artists soapbox.
This forum hasnt made me laugh for many months, I cant say more than that really.
It used to be about art discussions and having fun with people who shared the same interests.
This place is now a trading post, gallery frontage and artists soapbox.
This forum hasnt made me laugh for many months, I cant say more than that really.
|
|
|
|
So where did it all go wrong?, by hero on Dec 16, 2008 11:21:45 GMT 1, i would say that when there are serious threads like framing advice etc you get propper responses....but when your trying to flip a print or similar then people get stupid
H
i would say that when there are serious threads like framing advice etc you get propper responses....but when your trying to flip a print or similar then people get stupid
H
|
|
BME
New Member
Posts โข 799
Likes โข 74
December 2006
|
So where did it all go wrong?, by BME on Dec 16, 2008 11:26:53 GMT 1, it went wrong around 2 months ago, when people started speculating about Santas Ghetto, where is it going to be, whats going to be released - the money side comes out. Nola release case in example - the lurkers and leeches coming out of the woodwork - the instant flippers. However this isnt the norm on this site - it is the norm around Banksy releases. There have been some fantastic discussions and points of view and some great art put on display - once the Banksy furore dies down, conversations about art will resurface. Its the evolution of this site, its an unpleasant part of it, but the maturer, more level headed people, need to stick around, and let it run its course. Thats my tuppence worth
Beautifully put. Thank you.
it went wrong around 2 months ago, when people started speculating about Santas Ghetto, where is it going to be, whats going to be released - the money side comes out. Nola release case in example - the lurkers and leeches coming out of the woodwork - the instant flippers. However this isnt the norm on this site - it is the norm around Banksy releases. There have been some fantastic discussions and points of view and some great art put on display - once the Banksy furore dies down, conversations about art will resurface. Its the evolution of this site, its an unpleasant part of it, but the maturer, more level headed people, need to stick around, and let it run its course. Thats my tuppence worth Beautifully put. Thank you. |
|
|
|
dynamixx
New Member
Posts โข 650
Likes โข 1
August 2006
|
So where did it all go wrong?, by dynamixx on Dec 16, 2008 11:27:12 GMT 1, You're not alone
banksyforum.proboards82.com/index.cgi?board=general&action=display&thread=29895
Speculation and greed and selling and profiteering has made things pretty barren, financial worth for too many is blinding out the images themselves.
"Some people know the price of everything but the value of nothing" is worth requoting
|
|
robinbanks
Junior Member
Posts โข 1,319
Likes โข 2
October 2007
|
So where did it all go wrong?, by robinbanks on Dec 16, 2008 11:28:09 GMT 1, This place definitely isn't the same as it was when I first joined little over a year ago, and if I had to give an honest answer I'd say it had changed for the worse. But such is life. Nothing stays the same, and if it does or it did we'd probably only just get bored of it, fickle as we are.
There's plenty of good to be found on this forum though - it just takes a little more sifting through to get to. If you ever find yourself getting depressed about the flipping and the bitching just go and have a look through the get your art out for the lads section - that's what it's all about. Or, dig up and rekindle an old thread, as people have been doing of late, and try and strike up a bit of good old fashioned conversation with some fellow art enthusiasts (some of us/them still pop in to say hello from time to time).
Starting threads about how it wasn't like this when I were a lad isn't going to change anything though I'm afraid. 
This place definitely isn't the same as it was when I first joined little over a year ago, and if I had to give an honest answer I'd say it had changed for the worse. But such is life. Nothing stays the same, and if it does or it did we'd probably only just get bored of it, fickle as we are. There's plenty of good to be found on this forum though - it just takes a little more sifting through to get to. If you ever find yourself getting depressed about the flipping and the bitching just go and have a look through the get your art out for the lads section - that's what it's all about. Or, dig up and rekindle an old thread, as people have been doing of late, and try and strike up a bit of good old fashioned conversation with some fellow art enthusiasts (some of us/them still pop in to say hello from time to time). Starting threads about how it wasn't like this when I were a lad isn't going to change anything though I'm afraid. |
|
funster
Junior Member
Posts โข 2,256
Likes โข 0
October 2006
|
So where did it all go wrong?, by funster on Dec 16, 2008 11:29:28 GMT 1, Good post achtungbono
Good post achtungbono
|
|
Cocteau 101
Junior Member
Posts โข 3,483
Likes โข 1,202
January 2007
|
So where did it all go wrong?, by Cocteau 101 on Dec 16, 2008 11:42:59 GMT 1, achtungbono - good points.
Primarily it should be about the image and I have argued before that if it purely was about the image then why buy prints when you can get the image put on a canvas as you say for ยฃ30. But to me that leaves a mass of contradictions, we know the artist does not endorse rip off copies of his work.
If it is purely about the image then the image belongs to the street and nowhere else, if an artist then chooses to release prints of these images then a whole new ballgame starts. At the start the whole point was for many it was collecting Banksys at source when the people interested were relatively small, there was no money in it and you could own an image that you had seen on the street that you thought funny ironic etc. Now it's just become a mess. I was going to write more but am rambling and to be honest bored of the whole thing.
achtungbono - good points.
Primarily it should be about the image and I have argued before that if it purely was about the image then why buy prints when you can get the image put on a canvas as you say for ยฃ30. But to me that leaves a mass of contradictions, we know the artist does not endorse rip off copies of his work.
If it is purely about the image then the image belongs to the street and nowhere else, if an artist then chooses to release prints of these images then a whole new ballgame starts. At the start the whole point was for many it was collecting Banksys at source when the people interested were relatively small, there was no money in it and you could own an image that you had seen on the street that you thought funny ironic etc. Now it's just become a mess. I was going to write more but am rambling and to be honest bored of the whole thing.
|
|
pezlow
Junior Member
Posts โข 5,388
Likes โข 254
January 2007
|
So where did it all go wrong?, by pezlow on Dec 16, 2008 11:45:15 GMT 1, I agree with most of what you say about the forum but not about the images. VLH is in my opinion classic Banksy. Firstly it is a print reproduction of a street piece (and it is nice to see this happening) and secondly it is an irreverent Banksy take on an important topic. Something that can make you smile but at the same time make you think.
That being said I think there have been about 3 posts discussing what the print is actually saying and about 10,000 moaning and b**ching about POW. It's all quite sad.
Honestly I think POW could sell out a banksy print 10 times over without ever actually releasing a picture of the image first.
I agree with most of what you say about the forum but not about the images. VLH is in my opinion classic Banksy. Firstly it is a print reproduction of a street piece (and it is nice to see this happening) and secondly it is an irreverent Banksy take on an important topic. Something that can make you smile but at the same time make you think.
That being said I think there have been about 3 posts discussing what the print is actually saying and about 10,000 moaning and b**ching about POW. It's all quite sad.
Honestly I think POW could sell out a banksy print 10 times over without ever actually releasing a picture of the image first.
|
|
shower
Junior Member
Posts โข 1,543
Likes โข 23
September 2007
|
So where did it all go wrong?, by shower on Dec 16, 2008 12:00:02 GMT 1, good posts all round! as i said in another thread, im suprised at the stick pow gets, i missed out on the last 5 banksy released i think it is now and i dont blame pow. why would i blame them, bitch about them and just act like a gready tosser. they sell prints and i would say they do a pretty good job, simple! im also suprised at the amount of people posting around a release who never seem to post at any other times, how can you trust, share info, make friends with people who are only in it for a banksy and the money it seems! i know many old members are good friends on here, on wk and in the outside world, shame that trend seems to be dying out a bit on here now!
good posts all round! as i said in another thread, im suprised at the stick pow gets, i missed out on the last 5 banksy released i think it is now and i dont blame pow. why would i blame them, bitch about them and just act like a gready tosser. they sell prints and i would say they do a pretty good job, simple! im also suprised at the amount of people posting around a release who never seem to post at any other times, how can you trust, share info, make friends with people who are only in it for a banksy and the money it seems! i know many old members are good friends on here, on wk and in the outside world, shame that trend seems to be dying out a bit on here now!
|
|
G-Man
Junior Member
Posts โข 3,529
Likes โข 33
November 2007
|
So where did it all go wrong?, by G-Man on Dec 16, 2008 12:01:03 GMT 1, This happened to a lesser extent last year too in the run up to Xmas with SG hype and flipper talk
There are still a good few really good guys on the forum and come January when the Xmas bubble has burst hopefully the forum will get back to discussing the art
The place has changed but everything changes sometime
This happened to a lesser extent last year too in the run up to Xmas with SG hype and flipper talk
There are still a good few really good guys on the forum and come January when the Xmas bubble has burst hopefully the forum will get back to discussing the art
The place has changed but everything changes sometime
|
|
|
|
So where did it all go wrong?, by onemandown72 on Dec 16, 2008 12:01:04 GMT 1, The forum is the sum of it's parts, and the large amount of posts that centre on self interest reflect that. There are still some valued members who create intelligent and well thought through threads, I've learnt a lot on my time on the board, shared some funny conversations, and also read a load of old toss.
I read somewhere else a very funny description of here, that the forum was like an ugly shag you couldn't resist going back to - and there is also a voyeuristic attraction of all the playground sniping. I don't see this changing hugely.
One reason for this is Banksy's name is on the forum & Banksy's works sell for thousands of pounds. Thus it attracts more who are looking to make cash as opposed to discuss the merits of art.
The forum is the sum of it's parts, and the large amount of posts that centre on self interest reflect that. There are still some valued members who create intelligent and well thought through threads, I've learnt a lot on my time on the board, shared some funny conversations, and also read a load of old toss.
I read somewhere else a very funny description of here, that the forum was like an ugly shag you couldn't resist going back to - and there is also a voyeuristic attraction of all the playground sniping. I don't see this changing hugely.
One reason for this is Banksy's name is on the forum & Banksy's works sell for thousands of pounds. Thus it attracts more who are looking to make cash as opposed to discuss the merits of art.
|
|
|
|
twist65
Junior Member
Posts โข 2,289
Likes โข 582
November 2008
|
So where did it all go wrong?, by twist65 on Dec 16, 2008 12:13:31 GMT 1, As someone who wasn't around on this forum 'back in the day' i would have to agree there is sooo much greed-orientated posting/b!tching POW if someone missed a print/desperation to get the latest Banksy without actually discussing the art itself... Fingers crossed it is just a bi-product of a couple of Banksy releases that brings these type of threads out, as someone above suggested. At the same time there's a lot of great stuff which is priceless to me as a non-London resident art enthusiast; the ยฃ50 thread is the best thing ever and has pointed me to numerous purchases, helpful VAT advice on imported prints etc, getting up-front images of current shows (I got to find out about the Herakut show and was blown away).... I hope the true forumistas don't all disappear as if you sift through the avarice and hidden agendas then there's some fantastic stuff here and i'm hooked!
As someone who wasn't around on this forum 'back in the day' i would have to agree there is sooo much greed-orientated posting/b!tching POW if someone missed a print/desperation to get the latest Banksy without actually discussing the art itself... Fingers crossed it is just a bi-product of a couple of Banksy releases that brings these type of threads out, as someone above suggested. At the same time there's a lot of great stuff which is priceless to me as a non-London resident art enthusiast; the ยฃ50 thread is the best thing ever and has pointed me to numerous purchases, helpful VAT advice on imported prints etc, getting up-front images of current shows (I got to find out about the Herakut show and was blown away).... I hope the true forumistas don't all disappear as if you sift through the avarice and hidden agendas then there's some fantastic stuff here and i'm hooked!
|
|
|
|
So where did it all go wrong?, by hero on Dec 16, 2008 12:15:20 GMT 1, i think it was a sign that something had changed when miss bugs did not offer a print on here like they always had before....
H
i think it was a sign that something had changed when miss bugs did not offer a print on here like they always had before....
H
|
|
|
|
So where did it all go wrong?, by Guest on Dec 16, 2008 12:18:43 GMT 1, i think it was a sign that something had changed when miss bugs did not offer a print on here like they always had before.... H
i thought prints were sold through their mailing list?
i think it was a sign that something had changed when miss bugs did not offer a print on here like they always had before.... H i thought prints were sold through their mailing list? |
|
|
|
So where did it all go wrong?, by hero on Dec 16, 2008 12:21:05 GMT 1, every print before this one they offered one or two for the first people who could PM them...its a really nice thing which I will try and take up
i think that everyone should cool it-the forum is what you make it, so if we all try and do what we think will make it a better place-that what will happen ;D
H
every print before this one they offered one or two for the first people who could PM them...its a really nice thing which I will try and take up
i think that everyone should cool it-the forum is what you make it, so if we all try and do what we think will make it a better place-that what will happen ;D
H
|
|
|
|
So where did it all go wrong?, by Guest on Dec 16, 2008 12:25:23 GMT 1, every print before this one they offered one or two for the first people who could PM them...its a really nice thing which I will try and take up i think that everyone should cool it-the forum is what you make it, so if we all try and do what we think will make it a better place-that what will happen ;D H
Miss Bugs is a member of this forum? never knew that.
every print before this one they offered one or two for the first people who could PM them...its a really nice thing which I will try and take up i think that everyone should cool it-the forum is what you make it, so if we all try and do what we think will make it a better place-that what will happen ;D H Miss Bugs is a member of this forum? never knew that. |
|
|
|
So where did it all go wrong?, by onemandown72 on Dec 16, 2008 12:30:28 GMT 1, I would add that if you want decent conversation, start a thread!
I would add that if you want decent conversation, start a thread!
|
|
|
|
So where did it all go wrong?, by hero on Dec 16, 2008 12:31:31 GMT 1, every print before this one they offered one or two for the first people who could PM them...its a really nice thing which I will try and take up i think that everyone should cool it-the forum is what you make it, so if we all try and do what we think will make it a better place-that what will happen ;D H Miss Bugs is a member of this forum? never knew that.
carrot=bugs
H
every print before this one they offered one or two for the first people who could PM them...its a really nice thing which I will try and take up i think that everyone should cool it-the forum is what you make it, so if we all try and do what we think will make it a better place-that what will happen ;D H Miss Bugs is a member of this forum? never knew that. carrot=bugs H |
|
|
|
So where did it all go wrong?, by Guest on Dec 16, 2008 12:37:51 GMT 1, I would add that if you want decent conversation, start a thread!
 If you want a decent conversation, get out more!
I would add that if you want decent conversation, start a thread! If you want a decent conversation, get out more! |
|
If you want a decent conversation, get out more!
