funyoung
Junior Member
Posts โข 1,040
Likes โข 20
February 2008
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VERMIN CONTROL Statement, by funyoung on Sept 14, 2008 18:44:21 GMT 1, All this talk of PestControl is largely irrelevant to the case in point. Precisely because they choose not to operate in this area. If I had the money and inclination (I have neither) to buy one of these 'street' pieces then the 'expert opinion' of Vermin would be something I would look for. They have set themselves up cleverly. They are not (visibly at least) offering work for sale themselves and claim to be offering their opinion for free. In the example above of Banksy painting the side of your house - most of us are not rich enough to not consider cashing in. If you say you would not then you are probably delusional. I think Smudger is bang on with his attempts at being realistic. Surely debate should be allowed here. Don't take it personally.
A lot of people here seem to be very upset by Vermin. Maybe part of your anger should be directed towards PestControl rather than Smudger?
Tell me smudger, do you have any streetpieces that you lifted or own and not sure what to do with them?
Personally I don't care if he does or doesn't. This 'name-calling' isn't really designed to stimulate mature debate now is it?
All this talk of PestControl is largely irrelevant to the case in point. Precisely because they choose not to operate in this area. If I had the money and inclination (I have neither) to buy one of these 'street' pieces then the 'expert opinion' of Vermin would be something I would look for. They have set themselves up cleverly. They are not (visibly at least) offering work for sale themselves and claim to be offering their opinion for free. In the example above of Banksy painting the side of your house - most of us are not rich enough to not consider cashing in. If you say you would not then you are probably delusional. I think Smudger is bang on with his attempts at being realistic. Surely debate should be allowed here. Don't take it personally. A lot of people here seem to be very upset by Vermin. Maybe part of your anger should be directed towards PestControl rather than Smudger? Tell me smudger, do you have any streetpieces that you lifted or own and not sure what to do with them? Personally I don't care if he does or doesn't. This 'name-calling' isn't really designed to stimulate mature debate now is it?
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VERMIN CONTROL Statement, by stender on Sept 14, 2008 19:47:46 GMT 1, Buyer Beware. If your stupid enough to buy non pest control authenticated banksys then you deserve all you get imho.
Buyer Beware. If your stupid enough to buy non pest control authenticated banksys then you deserve all you get imho.
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Deleted
Posts โข 0
Likes โข
January 1970
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VERMIN CONTROL Statement, by Deleted on Sept 14, 2008 21:03:29 GMT 1, Have you got a flak jacket handy Tenminutesfromnow?.
Have you got a flak jacket handy Tenminutesfromnow?.
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VERMIN CONTROL Statement, by mammal2 on Sept 14, 2008 21:14:44 GMT 1, I don't know much- but given the many issues being raised on this site I have been in contact with one of the members of the Vermin Committee whose name I won't reveal because it is not my concern. I thought I would share a couple of points with you that might help some people. What I do know, is that they passionate about Banksy's work and whole-heartedly believe they are serving collectors of Banksy's street art everywhere-purely because Pest Control refuse to do so. They are the most formidable committee of Banksy specialists that could ever be assembled. If or when they reveal themselves I don't think there can be one person on this forum of any intelligence who could dispute their experience. They will gladly accept ALL street art for authentication. Vermin was not created for their own vested interests. Apart from their own collective extensive knowledge, they also have an unrivalled database of Banksy's work. They will also subject items for digital testing as part of the authentication process where neccersary. Furthermore they actively encourage contributions from others- ie yourselves-which I'm sure is welcome by many experts on this forum-and any knowledge that would help to verify or cast doubt on any submitted item. The Vermin Certification therefore will be the highest authentication possible in the absence of the artist's own and if Pest Control were to reconsider their street art authentication service Vermin I'm sure would welcome that development. My own feelings on this are- why has everyone been perfectly happy up until now, that every auction house specialist in this very new growth area called Urban Art has been accepting and selling Banksy's work, but now an expert committee using rigorous cross testing and being democratic and wise to enough to involve the knowledge patently within this forum should be such a bad thing?
As simple as this the only person who knows who did it is the artist and his closest friends who may have helped. Even Holly cannot be 100% sure. Everything else is redundant. Hence, unless Vermin has Banksy in the office looking at jpegs like PC has then they are f**ked, and their "authentication" is worthless. Banksy in the early years of this decade gave AWAY alot of art. FACT. Plus he sprayed s**te load of stencils. EVERYWHERE. There are offices in london with 8ft by 8ft murals. FACT. Many have never been seen. There are many. Its a beautiful gift. In 05 there were still loads of rats and street pieces around. Most removable quite easily. Think of how many were sprayed indoors. I also wouldn't place much hope with Banksy as I think he likes his drink and I doubt can remember 1000's of stencils he sprayed. Vermin are a money making outfit through and through. Their opinion is WORTHLESS. FACT!
I don't know much- but given the many issues being raised on this site I have been in contact with one of the members of the Vermin Committee whose name I won't reveal because it is not my concern. I thought I would share a couple of points with you that might help some people. What I do know, is that they passionate about Banksy's work and whole-heartedly believe they are serving collectors of Banksy's street art everywhere-purely because Pest Control refuse to do so. They are the most formidable committee of Banksy specialists that could ever be assembled. If or when they reveal themselves I don't think there can be one person on this forum of any intelligence who could dispute their experience. They will gladly accept ALL street art for authentication. Vermin was not created for their own vested interests. Apart from their own collective extensive knowledge, they also have an unrivalled database of Banksy's work. They will also subject items for digital testing as part of the authentication process where neccersary. Furthermore they actively encourage contributions from others- ie yourselves-which I'm sure is welcome by many experts on this forum-and any knowledge that would help to verify or cast doubt on any submitted item. The Vermin Certification therefore will be the highest authentication possible in the absence of the artist's own and if Pest Control were to reconsider their street art authentication service Vermin I'm sure would welcome that development. My own feelings on this are- why has everyone been perfectly happy up until now, that every auction house specialist in this very new growth area called Urban Art has been accepting and selling Banksy's work, but now an expert committee using rigorous cross testing and being democratic and wise to enough to involve the knowledge patently within this forum should be such a bad thing? As simple as this the only person who knows who did it is the artist and his closest friends who may have helped. Even Holly cannot be 100% sure. Everything else is redundant. Hence, unless Vermin has Banksy in the office looking at jpegs like PC has then they are f**ked, and their "authentication" is worthless. Banksy in the early years of this decade gave AWAY alot of art. FACT. Plus he sprayed s**te load of stencils. EVERYWHERE. There are offices in london with 8ft by 8ft murals. FACT. Many have never been seen. There are many. Its a beautiful gift. In 05 there were still loads of rats and street pieces around. Most removable quite easily. Think of how many were sprayed indoors. I also wouldn't place much hope with Banksy as I think he likes his drink and I doubt can remember 1000's of stencils he sprayed. Vermin are a money making outfit through and through. Their opinion is WORTHLESS. FACT!
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Junior Member
Posts โข 2,486
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November 2007
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VERMIN CONTROL Statement, by top on Sept 14, 2008 21:20:58 GMT 1, Suffice to say, that vermin will always be despised here..
scammin' bollox for sure..they will disappear up their own arse soon enough
Suffice to say, that vermin will always be despised here..
scammin' bollox for sure..they will disappear up their own arse soon enough
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VERMIN CONTROL Statement, by alsbabar on Sept 14, 2008 21:24:13 GMT 1, I don't know much- but given the many issues being raised on this site I have been in contact with one of the members of the Vermin Committee whose name I won't reveal because it is not my concern. I thought I would share a couple of points with you that might help some people. So basically you spoke with Robin Barton - aka owner of Bankrobber
What I do know, is that they passionate about Banksy's work and whole-heartedly believe they are serving collectors of Banksy's street art everywhere-purely because Pest Control refuse to do so. We are all passionate about Banksy's work but we dont go out of our way to insult him and his works
They are the most formidable committee of Banksy specialists that could ever be assembled. If or when they reveal themselves I don't think there can be one person on this forum of any intelligence who could dispute their experience. Banksy himself is the most formidable specialists when it comes to his work, and that is why we have Pest Control. I also think that this forum has spoken about what they think of vermin and its "panel of greedy experts"They will gladly accept ALL street art for authentication. Vermin was not created for their own vested interests. How much are they charging for this process?Apart from their own collective extensive knowledge, they also have an unrivalled database of Banksy's work. They will also subject items for digital testing as part of the authentication process where neccersary. Furthermore they actively encourage contributions from others- ie yourselves-which I'm sure is welcome by many experts on this forum-and any knowledge that would help to verify or cast doubt on any submitted item. Basically they are using Banksys books and trawling this site for their source of information. Digital testing - meaning superimpose via photoshop? I have a much better suggestion for subjecting items for authentication......... get Banksy him via Pest Control to authenticate i!!!!
The Vermin Certification therefore will be the highest authentication possible in the absence of the artist's own and if Pest Control were to reconsider their street art authentication service Vermin I'm sure would welcome that development. I dare say vermin wont be around long enough to see this happen
My own feelings on this are- why has everyone been perfectly happy up until now, that every auction house specialist in this very new growth area called Urban Art has been accepting and selling Banksy's work, but now an expert committee using rigorous cross testing and being democratic and wise to enough to involve the knowledge patently within this forum should be such a bad thing? Every auction house has and will continue to use Pest Control for authentication of all Banksy pieces, therefore there has never been any need to question any piece placed in to auction. And please stop calling them "expert committee", they do not have any authority on Banksys' art. As for involving this forum, well they have made a rather positive start already havent they?
thanks for posting Robin Bankrobber
I don't know much- but given the many issues being raised on this site I have been in contact with one of the members of the Vermin Committee whose name I won't reveal because it is not my concern. I thought I would share a couple of points with you that might help some people. So basically you spoke with Robin Barton - aka owner of Bankrobber
What I do know, is that they passionate about Banksy's work and whole-heartedly believe they are serving collectors of Banksy's street art everywhere-purely because Pest Control refuse to do so. We are all passionate about Banksy's work but we dont go out of our way to insult him and his works
They are the most formidable committee of Banksy specialists that could ever be assembled. If or when they reveal themselves I don't think there can be one person on this forum of any intelligence who could dispute their experience. Banksy himself is the most formidable specialists when it comes to his work, and that is why we have Pest Control. I also think that this forum has spoken about what they think of vermin and its "panel of greedy experts"They will gladly accept ALL street art for authentication. Vermin was not created for their own vested interests. How much are they charging for this process?Apart from their own collective extensive knowledge, they also have an unrivalled database of Banksy's work. They will also subject items for digital testing as part of the authentication process where neccersary. Furthermore they actively encourage contributions from others- ie yourselves-which I'm sure is welcome by many experts on this forum-and any knowledge that would help to verify or cast doubt on any submitted item. Basically they are using Banksys books and trawling this site for their source of information. Digital testing - meaning superimpose via photoshop? I have a much better suggestion for subjecting items for authentication......... get Banksy him via Pest Control to authenticate i!!!!
The Vermin Certification therefore will be the highest authentication possible in the absence of the artist's own and if Pest Control were to reconsider their street art authentication service Vermin I'm sure would welcome that development. I dare say vermin wont be around long enough to see this happen
My own feelings on this are- why has everyone been perfectly happy up until now, that every auction house specialist in this very new growth area called Urban Art has been accepting and selling Banksy's work, but now an expert committee using rigorous cross testing and being democratic and wise to enough to involve the knowledge patently within this forum should be such a bad thing? Every auction house has and will continue to use Pest Control for authentication of all Banksy pieces, therefore there has never been any need to question any piece placed in to auction. And please stop calling them "expert committee", they do not have any authority on Banksys' art. As for involving this forum, well they have made a rather positive start already havent they? thanks for posting Robin Bankrobber
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Junior Member
Posts โข 2,486
Likes โข 4
November 2007
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VERMIN CONTROL Statement, by top on Sept 14, 2008 21:24:51 GMT 1, They are the most formidable committee of Banksy specialists that could ever be assembled. Now you're just being silly. Indeed
They are the most formidable committee of Banksy specialists that could ever be assembled. Now you're just being silly. Indeed
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VERMIN CONTROL Statement, by mammal2 on Sept 14, 2008 21:30:36 GMT 1, They are the most formidable committee of Banksy specialists that could ever be assembled. Now you're just being silly.
Surely that would be Banksy and Pest Control. Him being the bloke that knocked it up!
They are the most formidable committee of Banksy specialists that could ever be assembled. Now you're just being silly. Surely that would be Banksy and Pest Control. Him being the bloke that knocked it up!
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VERMIN CONTROL Statement, by buffin on Sept 14, 2008 21:56:09 GMT 1, My own feelings on this are- why has everyone been perfectly happy up until now, that every auction house specialist in this very new growth area called Urban Art has been accepting and selling Banksy's work, but now an expert committee using rigorous cross testing and being democratic and wise to enough to involve the knowledge patently within this forum should be such a bad thing?
Banksy has made it plain that he is opposed to this and therefore that should be the end of the matter imo.
My own feelings on this are- why has everyone been perfectly happy up until now, that every auction house specialist in this very new growth area called Urban Art has been accepting and selling Banksy's work, but now an expert committee using rigorous cross testing and being democratic and wise to enough to involve the knowledge patently within this forum should be such a bad thing? Banksy has made it plain that he is opposed to this and therefore that should be the end of the matter imo.
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VERMIN CONTROL Statement, by ejvaze on Sept 14, 2008 22:03:05 GMT 1, Quote]What I do know, is that they passionate about Banksy's work and whole-heartedly believe they are serving collectors of Banksy's street art everywhere-purely because Pest Control refuse to do so.[unquote
GOD give me Strength
WHAT a LOAD OF RUBBISH!!!!
I am a LADY so I will restrain from what I have just SHOUTED at my nearest and dearest after reading this RUBBISH!!!!
It is interesting to me that VERMIN have continued to fight their corner on this 'Little Forum' as thought REALLY it mattered that they were taken seriously here. Maybe that's because a lot of Lurkers here and on WK use the information to gain knowledge of the market.
Quote]What I do know, is that they passionate about Banksy's work and whole-heartedly believe they are serving collectors of Banksy's street art everywhere-purely because Pest Control refuse to do so.[unquote
GOD give me Strength
WHAT a LOAD OF RUBBISH!!!!
I am a LADY so I will restrain from what I have just SHOUTED at my nearest and dearest after reading this RUBBISH!!!!
It is interesting to me that VERMIN have continued to fight their corner on this 'Little Forum' as thought REALLY it mattered that they were taken seriously here. Maybe that's because a lot of Lurkers here and on WK use the information to gain knowledge of the market.
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aginghippie
New Member
Posts โข 211
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December 2007
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VERMIN CONTROL Statement, by aginghippie on Sept 14, 2008 22:03:19 GMT 1, I'm incredulous that this is even being debated. As Lee3's post clearly explains this is not how the art market operates and wishing isn't going to make it so. I had a quick phone around some art dealers I work with in NYC and not one of them would handle a Banksy work with a Vermin COA unless it was also supported by Pest Control.
Personally I'm not against Vermin because I believe a fool and his money should be parted and anyone who buys an artists work (talking about $100k+ here) without ensuring that the work is properly catalogued by the artist is definitely a fool.
I'm incredulous that this is even being debated. As Lee3's post clearly explains this is not how the art market operates and wishing isn't going to make it so. I had a quick phone around some art dealers I work with in NYC and not one of them would handle a Banksy work with a Vermin COA unless it was also supported by Pest Control.
Personally I'm not against Vermin because I believe a fool and his money should be parted and anyone who buys an artists work (talking about $100k+ here) without ensuring that the work is properly catalogued by the artist is definitely a fool.
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savilerogue
New Member
Posts โข 326
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August 2007
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VERMIN CONTROL Statement, by savilerogue on Sept 14, 2008 22:17:39 GMT 1, What I do know, is that they passionate about Banksy's work and whole-heartedly believe they are serving collectors of Banksy's street art everywhere-purely because Pest Control refuse to do so.
Pest Control quite rightly refuse to authenticate street pieces that were designed for the street for the benefit of the general population, this helps to prevent pieces being chiseled off walls by greedy f**kers like those behind Vermin. To paint Vermin as the good guys against Pest Control is total sophistry.
They are the most formidable committee of Banksy specialists that could ever be assembled. If or when they reveal themselves I don't think there can be one person on this forum of any intelligence who could dispute their experience.
Seeing as the panel will not include Banksy himself, anyone from POW or Lazarides, forgive me for saying so but this claim is absolute bollocks.
They will gladly accept ALL street art for authentication. Vermin was not created for their own vested interests.
That's not how they've marketed themselves though, is it?
Apart from their own collective extensive knowledge, they also have an unrivalled database of Banksy's work.
Erm, I think it will probably be rivalled and indeed surpassed by Pest Control's so again we are greeted with total bulls**t.
They will also subject items for digital testing as part of the authentication process where neccersary. Furthermore they actively encourage contributions from others- ie yourselves-which I'm sure is welcome by many experts on this forum-and any knowledge that would help to verify or cast doubt on any submitted item.
Somehow I doubt that much help will be forthcoming.
The Vermin Certification therefore will be the highest authentication possible in the absence of the artist's own and if Pest Control were to reconsider their street art authentication service Vermin I'm sure would welcome that development.
It's not authentication. It's opinion and should be marketed as such. Furthermore, if it is marketed as expert opinion then those behind Vermin should publish the supposed experts' credentials for scrutiny.
My own feelings on this are- why has everyone been perfectly happy up until now, that every auction house specialist in this very new growth area called Urban Art has been accepting and selling Banksy's work, but now an expert committee using rigorous cross testing and being democratic and wise to enough to involve the knowledge patently within this forum should be such a bad thing?
Democratic my arse. Those who have founded Vermin have done so to inflate the value of works owned by themselves by trying to lend them credibility. I hope Pest Control tear them a new arsehole, and I hope that the art buying public shun this and treat it like the grubby scam that it actually is.
Let's see how democratic they are - let's have a forum poll to see who supports and who opposes this venture. I know which way I'd vote.
What I do know, is that they passionate about Banksy's work and whole-heartedly believe they are serving collectors of Banksy's street art everywhere-purely because Pest Control refuse to do so. Pest Control quite rightly refuse to authenticate street pieces that were designed for the street for the benefit of the general population, this helps to prevent pieces being chiseled off walls by greedy f**kers like those behind Vermin. To paint Vermin as the good guys against Pest Control is total sophistry. They are the most formidable committee of Banksy specialists that could ever be assembled. If or when they reveal themselves I don't think there can be one person on this forum of any intelligence who could dispute their experience. Seeing as the panel will not include Banksy himself, anyone from POW or Lazarides, forgive me for saying so but this claim is absolute bollocks. They will gladly accept ALL street art for authentication. Vermin was not created for their own vested interests. That's not how they've marketed themselves though, is it? Apart from their own collective extensive knowledge, they also have an unrivalled database of Banksy's work. Erm, I think it will probably be rivalled and indeed surpassed by Pest Control's so again we are greeted with total bulls**t. They will also subject items for digital testing as part of the authentication process where neccersary. Furthermore they actively encourage contributions from others- ie yourselves-which I'm sure is welcome by many experts on this forum-and any knowledge that would help to verify or cast doubt on any submitted item. Somehow I doubt that much help will be forthcoming. The Vermin Certification therefore will be the highest authentication possible in the absence of the artist's own and if Pest Control were to reconsider their street art authentication service Vermin I'm sure would welcome that development. It's not authentication. It's opinion and should be marketed as such. Furthermore, if it is marketed as expert opinion then those behind Vermin should publish the supposed experts' credentials for scrutiny. My own feelings on this are- why has everyone been perfectly happy up until now, that every auction house specialist in this very new growth area called Urban Art has been accepting and selling Banksy's work, but now an expert committee using rigorous cross testing and being democratic and wise to enough to involve the knowledge patently within this forum should be such a bad thing? Democratic my arse. Those who have founded Vermin have done so to inflate the value of works owned by themselves by trying to lend them credibility. I hope Pest Control tear them a new arsehole, and I hope that the art buying public shun this and treat it like the grubby scam that it actually is. Let's see how democratic they are - let's have a forum poll to see who supports and who opposes this venture. I know which way I'd vote.
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VERMIN CONTROL Statement, by ejvaze on Sept 14, 2008 22:19:12 GMT 1, Do you think we and the Artist are STUPID
NO
VERMIN wants us all to drop this argument and forget it so they can go about there underhanded business conning the wealthy out of vast sums . Who says there's not a factory somewhere copying these street works of Banksys. IT IS SO EASY AS A LITTLE BIRD HAS POINTED OUT TO PRODUCE AND CON SOMEONE INTO BUYING A FAKE WITH SO MUCH DOCUMENTED EVIDENCE
It has only been a few years since Banksys work has been going through the auction houses mostly secondary market. Most of the auction houses have very little idea and knowledge when it comes to Banksys work. Auction companies such as Sotheby's and Bonhams have worked hard to catch up on the knowledge. Sotheby's have spent time in building and showing respect for the artist and his work Bonhams have quickly stepped into line and have looked to PC for authentication of the Banksy work they sell.
This sort of provincial auction company setting up this auction in London is degrading the artist and his reputation allowing VERMIN to authenticate works they have for sale in their auction.
To quote lee3 Quote] Vermin (nice choice of name) is an amateur hour organization for the lesser auction houses to fall back upon in the hopes that they can realize larger revenues for works that others simply refuse to sell. Personally, I don't anticipate that we'll have Vermin around for very long.[ Unquote
just because an auction house have a nice corporate website and established 1826 under their name it does not so it seems mean people can be trusted They like VERMIN have no respect for the artist accepting consigned work authenticate by a gang like this into their sale.
I would think if VERMIN approached Sotheby's or Bonhams they would be uncloaked and found out for what they truly are.
Will this or any auction house take this Damien Hirst SPIN here which I am authenticating.?
Do you think we and the Artist are STUPID
NO
VERMIN wants us all to drop this argument and forget it so they can go about there underhanded business conning the wealthy out of vast sums . Who says there's not a factory somewhere copying these street works of Banksys. IT IS SO EASY AS A LITTLE BIRD HAS POINTED OUT TO PRODUCE AND CON SOMEONE INTO BUYING A FAKE WITH SO MUCH DOCUMENTED EVIDENCE
It has only been a few years since Banksys work has been going through the auction houses mostly secondary market. Most of the auction houses have very little idea and knowledge when it comes to Banksys work. Auction companies such as Sotheby's and Bonhams have worked hard to catch up on the knowledge. Sotheby's have spent time in building and showing respect for the artist and his work Bonhams have quickly stepped into line and have looked to PC for authentication of the Banksy work they sell.
This sort of provincial auction company setting up this auction in London is degrading the artist and his reputation allowing VERMIN to authenticate works they have for sale in their auction.
To quote lee3 Quote] Vermin (nice choice of name) is an amateur hour organization for the lesser auction houses to fall back upon in the hopes that they can realize larger revenues for works that others simply refuse to sell. Personally, I don't anticipate that we'll have Vermin around for very long.[ Unquote
just because an auction house have a nice corporate website and established 1826 under their name it does not so it seems mean people can be trusted They like VERMIN have no respect for the artist accepting consigned work authenticate by a gang like this into their sale.
I would think if VERMIN approached Sotheby's or Bonhams they would be uncloaked and found out for what they truly are.
Will this or any auction house take this Damien Hirst SPIN here which I am authenticating.?
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VERMIN CONTROL Statement, by mammal2 on Sept 14, 2008 22:35:15 GMT 1, Will this or any auction house take this Damien Hirst SPIN here which I am authenticating.?
I will take it!
Will this or any auction house take this Damien Hirst SPIN here which I am authenticating.?
I will take it!
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Junior Member
Posts โข 2,486
Likes โข 4
November 2007
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VERMIN CONTROL Statement, by top on Sept 14, 2008 22:36:45 GMT 1, Will this or any auction house take this Damien Hirst SPIN here which I am authenticating.? I will take it!
..that's about the size of it ..for a small fee.. ahem ;D
Will this or any auction house take this Damien Hirst SPIN here which I am authenticating.? I will take it! ..that's about the size of it ..for a small fee.. ahem ;D
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funyoung
Junior Member
Posts โข 1,040
Likes โข 20
February 2008
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VERMIN CONTROL Statement, by funyoung on Sept 14, 2008 23:13:18 GMT 1, I don't know much- but given the many issues being raised on this site I have been in contact with one of the members of the Vermin Committee whose name I won't reveal because it is not my concern. I thought I would share a couple of points with you that might help some people. So basically you spoke with Robin Barton - aka owner of Bankrobber
What I do know, is that they passionate about Banksy's work and whole-heartedly believe they are serving collectors of Banksy's street art everywhere-purely because Pest Control refuse to do so. We are all passionate about Banksy's work but we dont go out of our way to insult him and his works How have they insulted Banksy? By trying to authenticate pieces he won't? They are the most formidable committee of Banksy specialists that could ever be assembled. If or when they reveal themselves I don't think there can be one person on this forum of any intelligence who could dispute their experience. Banksy himself is the most formidable specialists when it comes to his work, and that is why we have Pest Control. I also think that this forum has spoken about what they think of vermin and its "panel of greedy experts"Banksy (and pest control) won't authenticate. Hence the void now being filled. They will gladly accept ALL street art for authentication. Vermin was not created for their own vested interests. How much are they charging for this process? Free usually means nothing.Apart from their own collective extensive knowledge, they also have an unrivalled database of Banksy's work. They will also subject items for digital testing as part of the authentication process where neccersary. Furthermore they actively encourage contributions from others- ie yourselves-which I'm sure is welcome by many experts on this forum-and any knowledge that would help to verify or cast doubt on any submitted item. Basically they are using Banksys books and trawling this site for their source of information. Digital testing - meaning superimpose via photoshop? I have a much better suggestion for subjecting items for authentication......... get Banksy him via Pest Control to authenticate i!!!! Pest control / Banksy won't authenticate. Gap in market. Now being filled. Am I repeating myself or is it you? The Vermin Certification therefore will be the highest authentication possible in the absence of the artist's own and if Pest Control were to reconsider their street art authentication service Vermin I'm sure would welcome that development. I dare say vermin wont be around long enough to see this happen Time will answer that one. My own feelings on this are- why has everyone been perfectly happy up until now, that every auction house specialist in this very new growth area called Urban Art has been accepting and selling Banksy's work, but now an expert committee using rigorous cross testing and being democratic and wise to enough to involve the knowledge patently within this forum should be such a bad thing? Every auction house has and will continue to use Pest Control for authentication of all Banksy pieces, therefore there has never been any need to question any piece placed in to auction. And please stop calling them "expert committee", they do not have any authority on Banksys' art. As for involving this forum, well they have made a rather positive start already havent they? Not part of remit for Pest Control. Will you stop banging on about how good they are? This is a different kettle of fish entirely. (Prints v. Street). thanks for posting Robin Bankrobber Alsbabar you seem to set yourself up as an expert. Were you not invited to be on their 'committee'?
Vermin may be bad. They may be in it for the money. They may exist because no one else is 'authenticating' these street pieces.
I don't know much- but given the many issues being raised on this site I have been in contact with one of the members of the Vermin Committee whose name I won't reveal because it is not my concern. I thought I would share a couple of points with you that might help some people. So basically you spoke with Robin Barton - aka owner of Bankrobber
What I do know, is that they passionate about Banksy's work and whole-heartedly believe they are serving collectors of Banksy's street art everywhere-purely because Pest Control refuse to do so. We are all passionate about Banksy's work but we dont go out of our way to insult him and his works How have they insulted Banksy? By trying to authenticate pieces he won't? They are the most formidable committee of Banksy specialists that could ever be assembled. If or when they reveal themselves I don't think there can be one person on this forum of any intelligence who could dispute their experience. Banksy himself is the most formidable specialists when it comes to his work, and that is why we have Pest Control. I also think that this forum has spoken about what they think of vermin and its "panel of greedy experts"Banksy (and pest control) won't authenticate. Hence the void now being filled. They will gladly accept ALL street art for authentication. Vermin was not created for their own vested interests. How much are they charging for this process? Free usually means nothing.Apart from their own collective extensive knowledge, they also have an unrivalled database of Banksy's work. They will also subject items for digital testing as part of the authentication process where neccersary. Furthermore they actively encourage contributions from others- ie yourselves-which I'm sure is welcome by many experts on this forum-and any knowledge that would help to verify or cast doubt on any submitted item. Basically they are using Banksys books and trawling this site for their source of information. Digital testing - meaning superimpose via photoshop? I have a much better suggestion for subjecting items for authentication......... get Banksy him via Pest Control to authenticate i!!!! Pest control / Banksy won't authenticate. Gap in market. Now being filled. Am I repeating myself or is it you? The Vermin Certification therefore will be the highest authentication possible in the absence of the artist's own and if Pest Control were to reconsider their street art authentication service Vermin I'm sure would welcome that development. I dare say vermin wont be around long enough to see this happen Time will answer that one. My own feelings on this are- why has everyone been perfectly happy up until now, that every auction house specialist in this very new growth area called Urban Art has been accepting and selling Banksy's work, but now an expert committee using rigorous cross testing and being democratic and wise to enough to involve the knowledge patently within this forum should be such a bad thing? Every auction house has and will continue to use Pest Control for authentication of all Banksy pieces, therefore there has never been any need to question any piece placed in to auction. And please stop calling them "expert committee", they do not have any authority on Banksys' art. As for involving this forum, well they have made a rather positive start already havent they? Not part of remit for Pest Control. Will you stop banging on about how good they are? This is a different kettle of fish entirely. (Prints v. Street). thanks for posting Robin Bankrobber Alsbabar you seem to set yourself up as an expert. Were you not invited to be on their 'committee'? Vermin may be bad. They may be in it for the money. They may exist because no one else is 'authenticating' these street pieces.
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VERMIN CONTROL Statement, by alsbabar on Sept 14, 2008 23:34:11 GMT 1, funyoung, let me respond to your comments
They insult the artist by going against his wishes - he wants his street art left on the streets - not for some opportunists to rip them off, not to save them for others to enjoy for years to come, but to cash in on them
What the likes of bankrobber or anyone who has lifted a streetpiece dont like, is how Pest Control have devalued the whole streetpiece market, a streetpiece with authentication from Banksy/Pest Control could be worth hundreds of thousands of pounds, without it, it isnt worth jacks**t, and this would go some way to explaining why Bankrobber, Artificial and Punk Daisy, have gone out of their way in setting up vermin - because what they saw as a easy cashcow, is now slipping from them fast, as no other auction house would touch them. So before you or anyone goes about defending them or say there is a "void that needs to be filled" think of the legal implications for those who sell fake pieces via auction and those who buy.
I will continue to support and defend Pest Control, like most on this forum and Banksy fans would.
funyoung, let me respond to your comments
They insult the artist by going against his wishes - he wants his street art left on the streets - not for some opportunists to rip them off, not to save them for others to enjoy for years to come, but to cash in on them
What the likes of bankrobber or anyone who has lifted a streetpiece dont like, is how Pest Control have devalued the whole streetpiece market, a streetpiece with authentication from Banksy/Pest Control could be worth hundreds of thousands of pounds, without it, it isnt worth jacks**t, and this would go some way to explaining why Bankrobber, Artificial and Punk Daisy, have gone out of their way in setting up vermin - because what they saw as a easy cashcow, is now slipping from them fast, as no other auction house would touch them. So before you or anyone goes about defending them or say there is a "void that needs to be filled" think of the legal implications for those who sell fake pieces via auction and those who buy.
I will continue to support and defend Pest Control, like most on this forum and Banksy fans would.
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VERMIN CONTROL Statement, by ejvaze on Sept 15, 2008 0:27:08 GMT 1,
I think enough has been said on this matter and I think VERMIN would love to have the last word but I think there is no point in all this going around the houses. I am sure by now VERMIN have got the idea that we will not have the wool pulled over our eyes re their phony authentication process and no matter how much they spout on about the gap in the market.... like commodities in a supermarket it does not make it morally right what they are doing. And WE ALL KNOW THAT
as alababar states
I will continue to support and defend Pest Control, like most on this forum and Banksy fans would.
I think the majority of this forum would agree with alababar.
I for one do.
Actually I SUPPORT BANKSY AND HIS ETHOS.
I think enough has been said on this matter and I think VERMIN would love to have the last word but I think there is no point in all this going around the houses. I am sure by now VERMIN have got the idea that we will not have the wool pulled over our eyes re their phony authentication process and no matter how much they spout on about the gap in the market.... like commodities in a supermarket it does not make it morally right what they are doing. And WE ALL KNOW THAT
as alababar states
I will continue to support and defend Pest Control, like most on this forum and Banksy fans would.
I think the majority of this forum would agree with alababar.
I for one do.
Actually I SUPPORT BANKSY AND HIS ETHOS.
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goffy
Junior Member
Posts โข 1,401
Likes โข 0
November 2006
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VERMIN CONTROL Statement, by goffy on Sept 15, 2008 0:33:40 GMT 1,
They are the most formidable committee of Banksy specialists that could ever be assembled.
[/quote]
They sound like The Justice League.
They are the most formidable committee of Banksy specialists that could ever be assembled.
[/quote]
They sound like The Justice League.
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VERMIN CONTROL Statement, by weaver on Sept 15, 2008 4:37:41 GMT 1, I'd like to see them set up their site, and invite opinion and relevant comment as stated, only for pest control, laz, or another authorised individual, to basically claim each one to be a fake, wether it is or it isnt. They state they will show each piece put forward for scrutiny, and anyones opinion is as valid as this so called committee. Its a game we can all play, just denounce each piece as its posted. simple as,...... a month later, no more vermin, no more overinflated pieces that shouldnt be for sale fetching the type of value they should and alot bad PR for their service. Obviously I'm not advocating this type of outright scuppering, only putting forward an idea that could impact their service if they run it they way they have said. But then again I am guessing that they will have access rights to delete comments they dont like.
I'd like to see them set up their site, and invite opinion and relevant comment as stated, only for pest control, laz, or another authorised individual, to basically claim each one to be a fake, wether it is or it isnt. They state they will show each piece put forward for scrutiny, and anyones opinion is as valid as this so called committee. Its a game we can all play, just denounce each piece as its posted. simple as,...... a month later, no more vermin, no more overinflated pieces that shouldnt be for sale fetching the type of value they should and alot bad PR for their service. Obviously I'm not advocating this type of outright scuppering, only putting forward an idea that could impact their service if they run it they way they have said. But then again I am guessing that they will have access rights to delete comments they dont like.
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VERMIN CONTROL Statement, by onemandown72 on Sept 15, 2008 7:52:14 GMT 1, There is a moral issue and a legal issue here. It seems that the vast majority of comment is regarding the moral issue as to whether the creation of Vermin and what they are offering to do is right a lot of outrage and a sense of disgust. The real issue here is whether they can legally do what they want or not, and therefore how seriously they will be taken. I would imagine that the people who have set Vermin up have looked into this in great detail, and in turn, I also imagine that Banksy will be doing exactly the same to undermine Vermin. As Lee says I very much doubt that the top auction houses will ever accept any work without a Pest Control certificate, they will be too nervous about potential claims against them, and when you have a body of self appointed experts Vs Authentication body as set up by the artist there will always be one winner.
There is a moral issue and a legal issue here. It seems that the vast majority of comment is regarding the moral issue as to whether the creation of Vermin and what they are offering to do is right a lot of outrage and a sense of disgust. The real issue here is whether they can legally do what they want or not, and therefore how seriously they will be taken. I would imagine that the people who have set Vermin up have looked into this in great detail, and in turn, I also imagine that Banksy will be doing exactly the same to undermine Vermin. As Lee says I very much doubt that the top auction houses will ever accept any work without a Pest Control certificate, they will be too nervous about potential claims against them, and when you have a body of self appointed experts Vs Authentication body as set up by the artist there will always be one winner.
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motor
Junior Member
Posts โข 1,836
Likes โข 409
December 2006
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VERMIN CONTROL Statement, by motor on Sept 15, 2008 9:19:09 GMT 1, I think enough has been said on this matter and I think VERMIN would love to have the last word but I think there is no point in all this going around the houses.
I disagree here - never enough in this case. 100% behind the rest of the post though
I am sure by now VERMIN have got the idea that we will not have the wool pulled over our eyes re their phony authentication process and no matter how much they spout on about the gap in the market.... like commodities in a supermarket it does not make it morally right what they are doing. And WE ALL KNOW THAT as alababar states I will continue to support and defend Pest Control, like most on this forum and Banksy fans would. I think the majority of this forum would agree with alababar. I for one do. Actually I SUPPORT BANKSY AND HIS ETHOS.
I think enough has been said on this matter and I think VERMIN would love to have the last word but I think there is no point in all this going around the houses. I disagree here - never enough in this case. 100% behind the rest of the post though I am sure by now VERMIN have got the idea that we will not have the wool pulled over our eyes re their phony authentication process and no matter how much they spout on about the gap in the market.... like commodities in a supermarket it does not make it morally right what they are doing. And WE ALL KNOW THAT as alababar states I will continue to support and defend Pest Control, like most on this forum and Banksy fans would. I think the majority of this forum would agree with alababar. I for one do. Actually I SUPPORT BANKSY AND HIS ETHOS.
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VERMIN CONTROL Statement, by Daniel Silk on Sept 15, 2008 18:55:48 GMT 1, Just had this PM -
NO information was revealed by me to anyone about this person and I was never asked by anyone. If they had looked at their own account profile on this forum they would realize that anyone can see their email address as they did not select the option to hide it
Just had this PM - NO information was revealed by me to anyone about this person and I was never asked by anyone. If they had looked at their own account profile on this forum they would realize that anyone can see their email address as they did not select the option to hide it
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aginghippie
New Member
Posts โข 211
Likes โข 0
December 2007
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VERMIN CONTROL Statement, by aginghippie on Sept 15, 2008 19:02:33 GMT 1, As Lee says I very much doubt that the top auction houses will ever accept any work without a Pest Control certificate, they will be too nervous about potential claims against them, and when you have a body of self appointed experts Vs Authentication body as set up by the artist there will always be one winner. Legally this is a non-issue. Any liability lies between Vermin the person they issue the certificate to unless Vermin specifically indemnify the holder in subsequent sales. I doubt they do that because it represents an unquantifiable risk so it couldn't be underwritten. The nett result is that the auction house has no liability but the seller does (auction house contracts back off the risk).
The reason reputable auction house won't touch these is because there is an official body and Vermin isn't it. If Pest Control won't authenticate a certain type of work that's tough luck but in the art world their opinion is the only one that counts and Vermin aren't going to change that.
As Lee says I very much doubt that the top auction houses will ever accept any work without a Pest Control certificate, they will be too nervous about potential claims against them, and when you have a body of self appointed experts Vs Authentication body as set up by the artist there will always be one winner. Legally this is a non-issue. Any liability lies between Vermin the person they issue the certificate to unless Vermin specifically indemnify the holder in subsequent sales. I doubt they do that because it represents an unquantifiable risk so it couldn't be underwritten. The nett result is that the auction house has no liability but the seller does (auction house contracts back off the risk). The reason reputable auction house won't touch these is because there is an official body and Vermin isn't it. If Pest Control won't authenticate a certain type of work that's tough luck but in the art world their opinion is the only one that counts and Vermin aren't going to change that.
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top
Junior Member
Posts โข 2,486
Likes โข 4
November 2007
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VERMIN CONTROL Statement, by top on Sept 16, 2008 0:09:46 GMT 1, Love Rats V's Dirty Rats
Love Rats V's Dirty Rats
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bullet
Blank Rank
Posts โข 0
Likes โข 16
January 2013
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VERMIN CONTROL Statement, by bullet on Sept 16, 2008 0:12:29 GMT 1, just supporting silky here, from using pro-boards myself - the admin person does not know of any personal details, these are held by pro-boards in america somewhere.
All silky would know is the email address that the person signed up with
just supporting silky here, from using pro-boards myself - the admin person does not know of any personal details, these are held by pro-boards in america somewhere.
All silky would know is the email address that the person signed up with
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VERMIN CONTROL Statement, by graeme501 on Sept 16, 2008 1:33:27 GMT 1, is this true, or are u speculating?
is this true, or are u speculating?
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VERMIN CONTROL Statement, by alsbabar on Sept 16, 2008 10:44:04 GMT 1, graeme there is more to vermin that meets the eye. Anyone who thinks that Vermin has been set up to "fill a void", is deluded. Up till 8 months ago, there was no authority in place to authenticate any of banksys works. It was carte blanche for certain people to rip pieces of walls and sell them for 100's of thousands of pounds, create fakes and sell them on ebay or via galleries and get away with it. What has happened is Pest Control have pissed on their parade and as a result they have been rumbled, and any piece bought from these people have been put into doubt, as some have been found not to be the real deal.
This is just the tip of the iceberg, I am sure more will be revealed over time.
graeme there is more to vermin that meets the eye. Anyone who thinks that Vermin has been set up to "fill a void", is deluded. Up till 8 months ago, there was no authority in place to authenticate any of banksys works. It was carte blanche for certain people to rip pieces of walls and sell them for 100's of thousands of pounds, create fakes and sell them on ebay or via galleries and get away with it. What has happened is Pest Control have pissed on their parade and as a result they have been rumbled, and any piece bought from these people have been put into doubt, as some have been found not to be the real deal.
This is just the tip of the iceberg, I am sure more will be revealed over time.
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VERMIN CONTROL Statement, by manty on Sept 16, 2008 11:47:32 GMT 1, Maybe this is all a big plan to humiliate the money guys by setting this business up, They sell loads of monies worth, someone declares they are fakes, they close the business down, and laugh at the guys that dropped the money and in turn wipe out any value of street peices, which in turn means the artist can stencil away and everyone will happily enjoy the work and leave it where it is.
Or maybe not :-)
Maybe this is all a big plan to humiliate the money guys by setting this business up, They sell loads of monies worth, someone declares they are fakes, they close the business down, and laugh at the guys that dropped the money and in turn wipe out any value of street peices, which in turn means the artist can stencil away and everyone will happily enjoy the work and leave it where it is.
Or maybe not :-)
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