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The history makers, by blackbeltjones on Apr 16, 2008 12:00:14 GMT 1, i don't see how you can leave Blek out, he has been a pioneer to this style of art and the inspiration to many of the stencil artists today.. The tate couldn't possibly do a retrospective of this movement without mentioning him..
i don't see how you can leave Blek out, he has been a pioneer to this style of art and the inspiration to many of the stencil artists today.. The tate couldn't possibly do a retrospective of this movement without mentioning him..
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faute
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The history makers, by faute on Apr 16, 2008 12:05:42 GMT 1, I think Basquait and Haring probably belong to a different movement - maybe street art part 1 It is probably too early to say and probably too early to categorise as we are living through it. But the art world does like to categorise and I am sure this body of artists producing works this century will be categorised and labelled and described as a movement in the future. And yes the defining characteristics won't necessary be about putting work on the street. It will also be about the sale of work on the internet, the democratisation in the ownership of work etc etc. But ultimately I hope that most of these artists will be remembered long term for the work done on the street.
I agree. Thus, I would say Banksy because he is the first and driving force into driving money into this. With internet, it could have been a lot of others, but it was Banksy.
Then, I believe also one piece or one achievement by many artists could be remembered. It could be like Spazmat or more precisely Skullphone, it could be Invader. In other words, Invader could be well be remembered for his achievement around the world (or he could also push further inside stuff).
Revs could be remembered. It certainly won't be. But, I hope he will. An individual who put stuff on a long-term basis, which is known and appreciated, and choose to show it, but never sell it. That's new to me.
Then, I believe some artists could be remembered as trademarks. You know Nike, Louis Vuitton, Rolex...The Louis Vuitton Murakami canvas? It could be become the other way around. Who will take that road? Do you think a Faile print or canvas could be produced in 20 years, without the two Patrick? I am crazy, but I would say it's possible. And the one to push further and blur further the lines and succeed will be to me (it's not simply putting your images on products).
Summary. Yes, it's way too early too me. I would not look in a too conservative manner regarding a movement, that should not be (not regarding the art in itself, which is by definition).
Purely as artist, I don't know shit about art, but the most creative to me is BAST.
I think Basquait and Haring probably belong to a different movement - maybe street art part 1 It is probably too early to say and probably too early to categorise as we are living through it. But the art world does like to categorise and I am sure this body of artists producing works this century will be categorised and labelled and described as a movement in the future. And yes the defining characteristics won't necessary be about putting work on the street. It will also be about the sale of work on the internet, the democratisation in the ownership of work etc etc. But ultimately I hope that most of these artists will be remembered long term for the work done on the street. I agree. Thus, I would say Banksy because he is the first and driving force into driving money into this. With internet, it could have been a lot of others, but it was Banksy. Then, I believe also one piece or one achievement by many artists could be remembered. It could be like Spazmat or more precisely Skullphone, it could be Invader. In other words, Invader could be well be remembered for his achievement around the world (or he could also push further inside stuff). Revs could be remembered. It certainly won't be. But, I hope he will. An individual who put stuff on a long-term basis, which is known and appreciated, and choose to show it, but never sell it. That's new to me. Then, I believe some artists could be remembered as trademarks. You know Nike, Louis Vuitton, Rolex...The Louis Vuitton Murakami canvas? It could be become the other way around. Who will take that road? Do you think a Faile print or canvas could be produced in 20 years, without the two Patrick? I am crazy, but I would say it's possible. And the one to push further and blur further the lines and succeed will be to me (it's not simply putting your images on products). Summary. Yes, it's way too early too me. I would not look in a too conservative manner regarding a movement, that should not be (not regarding the art in itself, which is by definition). Purely as artist, I don't know shit about art, but the most creative to me is BAST.
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wimpy
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The history makers, by wimpy on Apr 16, 2008 12:13:03 GMT 1, Just because someone did something "first" doesn't mean they get the marquee placement.
For example, I'd think history will remember Faile more than Bast and Banksy more than Blek.
The "originators" often become footnotes to the people who have greater success in the public eye (as Silky said earlier).
Banksy will eventually be mentioned in college art classes for sure. Faile will, especially in printmaking classes. Shep will be in an opening paragraph somewhere. Other than that, I really can't see anyone who stands out enough to be worth a dedicated page in an art history book.
Just because someone did something "first" doesn't mean they get the marquee placement.
For example, I'd think history will remember Faile more than Bast and Banksy more than Blek.
The "originators" often become footnotes to the people who have greater success in the public eye (as Silky said earlier).
Banksy will eventually be mentioned in college art classes for sure. Faile will, especially in printmaking classes. Shep will be in an opening paragraph somewhere. Other than that, I really can't see anyone who stands out enough to be worth a dedicated page in an art history book.
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The history makers, by blackbeltjones on Apr 16, 2008 12:17:47 GMT 1, so if you were to write a book about the history of stencil graffitti you wouldn't mention Blek?!
so if you were to write a book about the history of stencil graffitti you wouldn't mention Blek?!
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wimpy
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The history makers, by wimpy on Apr 16, 2008 12:24:08 GMT 1, A whole book about stencil graffiti? Then, yes. But I'd also mention suburban stay-at-home mothers who stencil flower patterns in their kitchen, too.
A whole book about stencil graffiti? Then, yes. But I'd also mention suburban stay-at-home mothers who stencil flower patterns in their kitchen, too.
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The history makers, by blackbeltjones on Apr 16, 2008 12:28:19 GMT 1, mothers... flowers.... kitchens?? sounds like a blinding book!
mothers... flowers.... kitchens?? sounds like a blinding book!
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GD303uk
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The history makers, by GD303uk on Apr 16, 2008 12:29:10 GMT 1, Banksy, Bleck Shep, would be in the main hall, and in the surrounding rooms Micallef, Denning, Parla, Neat, Faile, Eine, Dface etc
although i could see Micallef and Denning in other galleries like the National, ;D
Banksy, Bleck Shep, would be in the main hall, and in the surrounding rooms Micallef, Denning, Parla, Neat, Faile, Eine, Dface etc
although i could see Micallef and Denning in other galleries like the National, ;D
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The history makers, by dave313perry on Apr 16, 2008 12:32:21 GMT 1, Banksy - Banksy and errrm Banksy - no need for any other input, oh ok then, Parla and Neate too
Banksy - Banksy and errrm Banksy - no need for any other input, oh ok then, Parla and Neate too
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barry cilit
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The history makers, by barry cilit on Apr 16, 2008 12:48:32 GMT 1, If we are talking in the long run then: Banksy, Neate, Os Gemeos, Mcgee, Kaws, Parla or Phil Frost maybe
If we are talking in the long run then: Banksy, Neate, Os Gemeos, Mcgee, Kaws, Parla or Phil Frost maybe
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holden
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The history makers, by holden on Apr 16, 2008 13:04:46 GMT 1, Yeah it makes you think. Def Banksy, agreed Blek unlikely despite his pioneering ways and Faile cos they've crossed a few definite boundaries with their work from wheat pasters to stencils and from pop art to street art. As for another(s) I think it depends on who works outside the box or gets the worlds media attention by pulling stunts, pickling fish/christs or using their artwork to highlight current affairs a la santas ghetto this year. The art most definitely first, but the cunning courting of the media with Banksy-esque style and in his case with anonymity is a must that will seal the later places. At this point for me it would be Neate, for placing great artwork free on the streets. That is altruistic and v cool
Yeah it makes you think. Def Banksy, agreed Blek unlikely despite his pioneering ways and Faile cos they've crossed a few definite boundaries with their work from wheat pasters to stencils and from pop art to street art. As for another(s) I think it depends on who works outside the box or gets the worlds media attention by pulling stunts, pickling fish/christs or using their artwork to highlight current affairs a la santas ghetto this year. The art most definitely first, but the cunning courting of the media with Banksy-esque style and in his case with anonymity is a must that will seal the later places. At this point for me it would be Neate, for placing great artwork free on the streets. That is altruistic and v cool
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sham69
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The history makers, by sham69 on Apr 16, 2008 13:09:16 GMT 1, Banksy (dependable) and Bast (creativity)
Banksy (dependable) and Bast (creativity)
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The history makers, by manchestermike on Apr 16, 2008 13:14:50 GMT 1, Very good point about KAWS - I think he'll definitely be in, although he's possibly even more commercial than Shep
Very good point about KAWS - I think he'll definitely be in, although he's possibly even more commercial than Shep
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becksaboo
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The history makers, by becksaboo on Apr 16, 2008 14:03:53 GMT 1, Ah love this thread- nice to talk about the future of this scene and not mention money! (and surely the price is sold at auction for is dictated in the long term by the quality of the work rather than hype).
So (and i think everyone agrees with this) banksy and then the other two i would go for micallef and neate (although i know the boundaries over them being street is a bit blurred)
otherwise... i think invader stands out and i don't think anyone rivals what mark jenkins has done.
Ah love this thread- nice to talk about the future of this scene and not mention money! (and surely the price is sold at auction for is dictated in the long term by the quality of the work rather than hype).
So (and i think everyone agrees with this) banksy and then the other two i would go for micallef and neate (although i know the boundaries over them being street is a bit blurred)
otherwise... i think invader stands out and i don't think anyone rivals what mark jenkins has done.
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killerkellah
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The history makers, by killerkellah on Apr 16, 2008 14:06:34 GMT 1, Invader will be around forever, the only way to remove them is by knocking the building down!!!
Invader will be around forever, the only way to remove them is by knocking the building down!!!
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The history makers, by buffin on Apr 16, 2008 14:16:42 GMT 1, Banksy, Shep, Neate end of. Still time for others to step up though.
Banksy, Shep, Neate end of. Still time for others to step up though.
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spirit
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The history makers, by spirit on Apr 16, 2008 14:20:15 GMT 1, For me the top 3 history makers would be...
Banksy Faile Parla
possible contenders: Neate, Shep
I am afraid I have never really seen the attraction of Micallef and I'm not sure I ever will
For me the top 3 history makers would be...
Banksy Faile Parla
possible contenders: Neate, Shep
I am afraid I have never really seen the attraction of Micallef and I'm not sure I ever will
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Bram
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The history makers, by Bram on Apr 16, 2008 15:28:29 GMT 1, good thread Pez.
Hasn't Micallef already got some interest from the British Museum? and the crew that is doing the outside of the Tate is interesting.
If you look back at the old masters, some are remembered for as little as 2 or 3 pieces albeit have a large body of work. So it could well be the "one hit wonders"
good thread Pez.
Hasn't Micallef already got some interest from the British Museum? and the crew that is doing the outside of the Tate is interesting.
If you look back at the old masters, some are remembered for as little as 2 or 3 pieces albeit have a large body of work. So it could well be the "one hit wonders"
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faroutman
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The history makers, by faroutman on Apr 16, 2008 15:38:10 GMT 1, And coming up on the inside it's James Cauty.
And coming up on the inside it's James Cauty.
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faroutman
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The history makers, by faroutman on Apr 16, 2008 15:41:48 GMT 1, With STOT21STCPLANB just behind.
With STOT21STCPLANB just behind.
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Heavyconsumer
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The history makers, by Heavyconsumer on Apr 16, 2008 16:00:53 GMT 1, buffin..... Please don't state your opinion, followed by "end of". It's quite narrow-minded of you to imply that you're right while anyone who's opinion differs is wrong. I think you're wrong, but it doesn't matter what I think, because that's your opinion and you're entitled to it!
Sorry for ruining this excellent thread peeps, but that is something I find soooo annoying!
buffin..... Please don't state your opinion, followed by "end of". It's quite narrow-minded of you to imply that you're right while anyone who's opinion differs is wrong. I think you're wrong, but it doesn't matter what I think, because that's your opinion and you're entitled to it!
Sorry for ruining this excellent thread peeps, but that is something I find soooo annoying!
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Heavyconsumer
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The history makers, by Heavyconsumer on Apr 16, 2008 16:11:59 GMT 1, Personally I think that putting Shep's name with the likes of Neate and Micallef is sacreligious! He's pumped out more rubbish than anyone I can think of!
I am a big fan of Micallef's work, but I can't put him in this "genre" especially not historically, unless the movement is defined by dates more than context or content. To an extent that applies to Neate too, although he's done plenty of street work. I say that of Neate, as I think he'll be considered amongst the other modern greats. I think he's that good that he transends genre. Banksy is a given! I think that Micallef will be remembered well also, as will the likes of Basquiat, Denning and Small.
As for this "movement" I think it's very difficult to define as the lines blur so heavily I can't see who to include or exclude. It will only be in time that people can make that distinction, right now, being in the middle of it, I'm happy to sit back, pick out the pieces and artists that matter to me and let the rest of you decide what the movement is and who belongs! Maybe that's just a cop-out as I'm not up to the job!
Personally I think that putting Shep's name with the likes of Neate and Micallef is sacreligious! He's pumped out more rubbish than anyone I can think of!
I am a big fan of Micallef's work, but I can't put him in this "genre" especially not historically, unless the movement is defined by dates more than context or content. To an extent that applies to Neate too, although he's done plenty of street work. I say that of Neate, as I think he'll be considered amongst the other modern greats. I think he's that good that he transends genre. Banksy is a given! I think that Micallef will be remembered well also, as will the likes of Basquiat, Denning and Small.
As for this "movement" I think it's very difficult to define as the lines blur so heavily I can't see who to include or exclude. It will only be in time that people can make that distinction, right now, being in the middle of it, I'm happy to sit back, pick out the pieces and artists that matter to me and let the rest of you decide what the movement is and who belongs! Maybe that's just a cop-out as I'm not up to the job!
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The history makers, by Ron Goldsurfer on Apr 16, 2008 16:34:19 GMT 1, what about CARTRAIN?! He did at least make some headlines the last time I read about him...
Ok, sorry that was low, I take my coat and are on my way...
what about CARTRAIN?! He did at least make some headlines the last time I read about him...
Ok, sorry that was low, I take my coat and are on my way...
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Heavyconsumer
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The history makers, by Heavyconsumer on Apr 16, 2008 16:36:41 GMT 1, Cartrain too, when he grows some pubes!
And starts shaving!
Cartrain too, when he grows some pubes!
And starts shaving!
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saltandiron
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The history makers, by saltandiron on Apr 16, 2008 17:29:59 GMT 1, Personally I think that putting Shep's name with the likes of Neate and Micallef is sacreligious! He's pumped out more rubbish than anyone I can think of!
I was one of those that put forward Shep. I didn't mention him because I think he's a genius but because I think it'd be fair to say that he's influenced a lot of artists and the 'movement' (however that's defined) a great deal. Being influential doesn't necessarily mean that you're good. Conversely, being a great artist doesn't necessarily mean that you going to be remembered.
Personally I think that putting Shep's name with the likes of Neate and Micallef is sacreligious! He's pumped out more rubbish than anyone I can think of! I was one of those that put forward Shep. I didn't mention him because I think he's a genius but because I think it'd be fair to say that he's influenced a lot of artists and the 'movement' (however that's defined) a great deal. Being influential doesn't necessarily mean that you're good. Conversely, being a great artist doesn't necessarily mean that you going to be remembered.
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Heavyconsumer
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The history makers, by Heavyconsumer on Apr 16, 2008 18:41:09 GMT 1, Interesting points, well taken saltandiron. Some food for thought there! I agree that Shep is possibly the most "prolific" artist of the day (or at least a candidate for that title). In no way was I suggesting he was unmemorable, but as you rightly imply, that there is a considerable void in class between him and some of the other artists mentioned in my opinion.
I think that when we discuss now, what may be remembered in the future, there are so many uncertainties, that encompass not only the art itself but the culture providing a context/backdrop to it, which will be remembered for many reasons/events over and above the art it offered in most cases. Today's art is a reflection of today's society, so the factors contributing to who is and isn't remembered are numerous and range far beyond the art itself.
I would suggest that Banksy will be one of the 1st, prominent names after Warhol in art history, but whether any others listed in this thread will be remembered popularly or only by scholars of art is very much open to debate.
Interesting points, well taken saltandiron. Some food for thought there! I agree that Shep is possibly the most "prolific" artist of the day (or at least a candidate for that title). In no way was I suggesting he was unmemorable, but as you rightly imply, that there is a considerable void in class between him and some of the other artists mentioned in my opinion.
I think that when we discuss now, what may be remembered in the future, there are so many uncertainties, that encompass not only the art itself but the culture providing a context/backdrop to it, which will be remembered for many reasons/events over and above the art it offered in most cases. Today's art is a reflection of today's society, so the factors contributing to who is and isn't remembered are numerous and range far beyond the art itself.
I would suggest that Banksy will be one of the 1st, prominent names after Warhol in art history, but whether any others listed in this thread will be remembered popularly or only by scholars of art is very much open to debate.
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otomi
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The history makers, by otomi on Apr 16, 2008 18:42:49 GMT 1, Banksy ... Faile (did a lot - several artist copy their style now - they kinda created a sub-movement in the street art scene) Swoon (unique style - great art - a true street artist - art world loves her) Space Invader (several books - allover the world - well documented - sells well - comes up with new materials), Obey (he is just everywhere) Paul Insect (great artist - touches all kinds of topics but you can always recognise his style) Ben Eine (pumps out a lot of work - does still a lot of street art - hangs out with all the right people)
Banksy ... Faile (did a lot - several artist copy their style now - they kinda created a sub-movement in the street art scene) Swoon (unique style - great art - a true street artist - art world loves her) Space Invader (several books - allover the world - well documented - sells well - comes up with new materials), Obey (he is just everywhere) Paul Insect (great artist - touches all kinds of topics but you can always recognise his style) Ben Eine (pumps out a lot of work - does still a lot of street art - hangs out with all the right people)
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mcster
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The history makers, by mcster on Apr 16, 2008 18:47:35 GMT 1, Banksy ... Faile (did a lot - several artist copy their style now - they kinda created a sub-movement in the street art scene) Swoon (unique style - great art - a true street artist - art world loves her) Space Invader (several books - allover the world - well documented - sells well - comes up with new materials), Obey (he is just everywhere) Paul Insect (great artist - touches all kinds of topics but you can always recognise his style) Ben Eine (pumps out a lot of work - does still a lot of street art - hangs out with all the right people)
I was about to add Ben Eine when I saw your post; years of street work (ongoing), lots of work with Banksy, does the screenprinting for POW. I'd be very surprised if he wasn't included, both for his own work and the part he has played on the scene since the 80's.
Banksy ... Faile (did a lot - several artist copy their style now - they kinda created a sub-movement in the street art scene) Swoon (unique style - great art - a true street artist - art world loves her) Space Invader (several books - allover the world - well documented - sells well - comes up with new materials), Obey (he is just everywhere) Paul Insect (great artist - touches all kinds of topics but you can always recognise his style) Ben Eine (pumps out a lot of work - does still a lot of street art - hangs out with all the right people) I was about to add Ben Eine when I saw your post; years of street work (ongoing), lots of work with Banksy, does the screenprinting for POW. I'd be very surprised if he wasn't included, both for his own work and the part he has played on the scene since the 80's.
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The history makers, by dave313perry on Apr 16, 2008 18:51:19 GMT 1, Banksy ... Faile (did a lot - several artist copy their style now - they kinda created a sub-movement in the street art scene) Swoon (unique style - great art - a true street artist - art world loves her) Space Invader (several books - allover the world - well documented - sells well - comes up with new materials), Obey (he is just everywhere) Paul Insect (great artist - touches all kinds of topics but you can always recognise his style) Ben Eine (pumps out a lot of work - does still a lot of street art - hangs out with all the right people)
sorry I'm not questioning your choices, just your reasons!...
Space invader - sells well and comes up with new material? Faile created a sub-movement? you mean wannabes try and copy? Swoon - a true street artist? whats a true street artist?
hope this doesn't read bad and I'm not attacking you, just curious to a little more explanation, and maybe i might learn a thing or two!
Banksy ... Faile (did a lot - several artist copy their style now - they kinda created a sub-movement in the street art scene) Swoon (unique style - great art - a true street artist - art world loves her) Space Invader (several books - allover the world - well documented - sells well - comes up with new materials), Obey (he is just everywhere) Paul Insect (great artist - touches all kinds of topics but you can always recognise his style) Ben Eine (pumps out a lot of work - does still a lot of street art - hangs out with all the right people) sorry I'm not questioning your choices, just your reasons!... Space invader - sells well and comes up with new material? Faile created a sub-movement? you mean wannabes try and copy? Swoon - a true street artist? whats a true street artist? hope this doesn't read bad and I'm not attacking you, just curious to a little more explanation, and maybe i might learn a thing or two!
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funyoung
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The history makers, by funyoung on Apr 16, 2008 18:51:41 GMT 1, Is it just me or is Shepard Faireys work more a commentary about what is going on rather than 'poking fun' or asking questions (that you get with Banksy)? ie. Retrospective rather than prospective. As a commentary the sheer prolific nature of his opus is undeniable but it just doesn't seem to sit so neatly in a category with some of the others mentioned here.
Is it just me or is Shepard Faireys work more a commentary about what is going on rather than 'poking fun' or asking questions (that you get with Banksy)? ie. Retrospective rather than prospective. As a commentary the sheer prolific nature of his opus is undeniable but it just doesn't seem to sit so neatly in a category with some of the others mentioned here.
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Cocteau 101
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The history makers, by Cocteau 101 on Apr 16, 2008 18:54:20 GMT 1, Banksy, Blek, Faile - from a pure street perspective Parla, Neate, Micallef - from a brilliant painting perspective, I think Parla will be hailed as THE American painter of the next 20 years.
But maybe we will be talking about a Bristol school and a Shoreditch school in 50 years who knows. Whatever, it's fuckin brilliant!
Banksy, Blek, Faile - from a pure street perspective Parla, Neate, Micallef - from a brilliant painting perspective, I think Parla will be hailed as THE American painter of the next 20 years.
But maybe we will be talking about a Bristol school and a Shoreditch school in 50 years who knows. Whatever, it's fuckin brilliant!
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