met
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June 2009
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CONFIRMED NOT GENUINE Cut and run pin badge , by met on Aug 12, 2023 21:21:14 GMT 1, Sounds like a remarkable coincidence. I'd be curious to hear the thoughts of Postal Pirate. I just replied above the one on eB ay is me just didnt want these two sites linked we only have two
Cheers for this. I appreciate your candour regarding your own dishonesty.
You mentioned your niece and nephew were given 2 badges.
And your brother seems to have expropriated both badges from his kids, asking you to sell them here.
But 2 badges have already been sold on your jadavie_47* eBay account. As shown below.
So how many of these badges do you really have?
www.ebay.co.uk/itm/266368802726
Sounds like a remarkable coincidence. I'd be curious to hear the thoughts of Postal Pirate. I just replied above the one on eB ay is me just didnt want these two sites linked we only have two Cheers for this. I appreciate your candour regarding your own dishonesty. You mentioned your niece and nephew were given 2 badges. And your brother seems to have expropriated both badges from his kids, asking you to sell them here. But 2 badges have already been sold on your jadavie_47 * eB ay account. As shown below. So how many of these badges do you really have? www.ebay.co.uk/itm/266368802726
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met
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June 2009
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CONFIRMED NOT GENUINE Cut and run pin badge , by met on Aug 12, 2023 20:39:35 GMT 1, The OP appears to be from near Cardiff, based on acquiring the Phl egm street piece from their local council in Cardiff. The two different eB ay sellers โjadavie_47โ and โthisthatstuffsโ who have tried to sell the 2 x pin badges are both from Cwmbran Torfaen, which is near Cardiff. Both eB ay sellers have tried to sell 2 x pin badges. The OP also had 2 x pin badges. No one else has tried to sell these badges. The OP listed an XXL size Ban ksy Colston Statue T-shirt for ยฃ600 on the forum, then around the same time, the eB ay seller โjadavie_47โ (see previous above) sold exactly the same size XXL t-shirt for ยฃ650. The first name of the eB ay seller โthisthatstuffsโ is Kyle (according to the eBay business account). The first name of the OP is Kyle (as they said on the Phl egm thread - urbanartassociation.com/post/2144767/thread). I wonder what met would establish from this coincidence? ๐ค
Sounds like a remarkable coincidence.
I'd be curious to hear the thoughts of Postal Pirate.
The OP appears to be from near Cardiff, based on acquiring the Phl egm street piece from their local council in Cardiff. The two different eB ay sellers โjadavie_47โ and โthisthatstuffsโ who have tried to sell the 2 x pin badges are both from Cwmbran Torfaen, which is near Cardiff. Both eB ay sellers have tried to sell 2 x pin badges. The OP also had 2 x pin badges. No one else has tried to sell these badges. The OP listed an XXL size Ban ksy Colston Statue T-shirt for ยฃ600 on the forum, then around the same time, the eB ay seller โjadavie_47โ (see previous above) sold exactly the same size XXL t-shirt for ยฃ650. The first name of the eB ay seller โthisthatstuffsโ is Kyle (according to the eBay business account). The first name of the OP is Kyle (as they said on the Phl egm thread - urbanartassociation.com/post/2144767/thread). I wonder what met would establish from this coincidence? ๐ค Sounds like a remarkable coincidence. I'd be curious to hear the thoughts of Postal Pirate.
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met
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CONFIRMED NOT GENUINE Cut and run pin badge , by met on Aug 12, 2023 20:29:06 GMT 1, My brother niece & nephew received 2 badges today at the cut and run show in Glasgow He doesnโt use the forums an has asked me to list them for sale after seeing another on eB ay for ยฃ175 Iโm going again on the final day so hopefully will get another then he is looking for offers around ยฃ130 Is your brother the one selling some on eBay?
No he saw the ones on eBay & asked me to list them here
Postal Pirate
Noted regarding your brother.
But would you yourself have a connection (direct or indirect) with any of the eBay accounts that (a) have already sold or (b) are currently selling these badges/pins?
My brother niece & nephew received 2 badges today at the cut and run show in Glasgow He doesnโt use the forums an has asked me to list them for sale after seeing another on eB ay for ยฃ175 Iโm going again on the final day so hopefully will get another then he is looking for offers around ยฃ130 Is your brother the one selling some on eBay?No he saw the ones on eBay & asked me to list them here Postal PirateNoted regarding your brother. But would you yourself have a connection (direct or indirect) with any of the eB ay accounts that (a) have already sold or (b) are currently selling these badges/pins?
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met
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CONFIRMED NOT GENUINE Cut and run pin badge , by met on Aug 12, 2023 19:33:41 GMT 1, Has anyone other than the OP seen or been handed any of these at the show?
That is the first question I would also ask.
Has anyone other than the OP seen or been handed any of these at the show? That is the first question I would also ask.
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met
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What Music are you listening to at the moment ?, by met on Aug 10, 2023 17:38:00 GMT 1, Best track of the year so far. Fact. you canโt ban a coat can you?
While there was never an outright ban, I do recall the days of yesteryear when my dear mother would try to discourage me from buying used trenchcoats, overcoats and suits.
Unsurprisingly given the generational divide, our respective notions of "cool" were often at variance. If not incompatible.
In fairness, this was also before the rebranding took place:
Back then, used garments were still just "secondโhand". Only much later, having undergone a sudden magical transformation, did they begin being referred to as "vintage", "antique" or "preloved".
My mother had always been highly sensitive to odours.
[As a child, I'd have to keep reโlearning that the hard way, every time she caught me playing with matches. This, despite my repeated certainty about having left the windows open long enough to fool her.]
In relation to secondโhand garments, the chemical smell of mothballs made her especially uneasy.
More to the point, she disliked the idea โ both of "deadโpeople's clothes" being brought into her home, and one of her offspring actually wearing them.
__________
Thank you for posting.
Catchy song, fun video.
The look of Daisy Smith has a separate nostalgic appeal for me:
Good dancer, crazy eyes, severe fringe, and Breton shirt.
What's not to like?
Best track of the year so far. Fact. you canโt ban a coat can you?While there was never an outright ban, I do recall the days of yesteryear when my dear mother would try to discourage me from buying used trenchcoats, overcoats and suits. Unsurprisingly given the generational divide, our respective notions of "cool" were often at variance. If not incompatible. In fairness, this was also before the rebranding took place: Back then, used garments were still just "secondโhand". Only much later, having undergone a sudden magical transformation, did they begin being referred to as "vintage", "antique" or "preloved". My mother had always been highly sensitive to odours. [As a child, I'd have to keep reโlearning that the hard way, every time she caught me playing with matches. This, despite my repeated certainty about having left the windows open long enough to fool her.]In relation to secondโhand garments, the chemical smell of mothballs made her especially uneasy. More to the point, she disliked the idea โ both of "deadโpeople's clothes" being brought into her home, and one of her offspring actually wearing them. __________ Thank you for posting. Catchy song, fun video. The look of Daisy Smith has a separate nostalgic appeal for me: Good dancer, crazy eyes, severe fringe, and Breton shirt. What's not to like?
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met
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Adam Neate Print, Canvas, WANTED, by met on Aug 9, 2023 21:11:57 GMT 1, And the deal has been done! Thanks to everyone who offered a piece and especially to Johnny Sarcasm for a really smooth transaction, completely trustworthy guy with an epic collection. 9 hours after setting off this morning I'm finally home with it hung on the wall...I think you will all agree...I've got a good 'un. The photos really don't do the piece or the frame justice...it's absolutely stunning. Oh...and it's MASSIVE. The monitor is a 34inch... That is quite a statement pieceโฆ no doubt it will cause a stir in the home office with plenty of discussion stimulated. Well done on going bold.
The Believers (2007)
Perhaps both in the home office and at the Home Office.
[Cheers for the assist.]
That said, polygamy/polyamory sometimes feels a bit overrated.
And the deal has been done! Thanks to everyone who offered a piece and especially to Johnny Sarcasm for a really smooth transaction, completely trustworthy guy with an epic collection. 9 hours after setting off this morning I'm finally home with it hung on the wall...I think you will all agree...I've got a good 'un. The photos really don't do the piece or the frame justice...it's absolutely stunning. Oh...and it's MASSIVE. The monitor is a 34inch... That is quite a statement pieceโฆ no doubt it will cause a stir in the home office with plenty of discussion stimulated. Well done on going bold. The Believers (2007)Perhaps both in the home office and at the Home Office. [Cheers for the assist.]That said, polygamy/polyamory sometimes feels a bit overrated.
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met
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Banksy Print, Canvas, WANTED, by met on Aug 8, 2023 17:25:01 GMT 1, Looking for a Very Little Helps - unframed, excellent condition and realistically priced please. What is "realistically priced"?
Excellent question, even if facetious.
__________
As is also the case with "reasonably priced" and "fairly priced", the meaning of these terms often varies according to the individuals using them:
1. When used by buyers, some are just alluding to current market value, pure and simple. This is the all‑inclusive price an artwork is known to typically sell for at auction, in galleries, and/or via private sales by dealers or individual collectors.
2. Other buyers are referring to a certain middle‑ground price point โ for example, the average hammer price an artwork has achieved in recent auction sales (unless deemed to be outliers).
Financially, this is mutually beneficial for both buyer and seller, since it is about midway between:
(a) what the buyer would have had to pay at auction, including buyer's premium and applicable VAT or import duties; and
(b) what the auction seller/consignor would presumably have received, net of their seller's fees (assuming such fees were incurred).
3. Yet other buyers are referring instead to the net‑proceeds amount that sellers/consignors will have received in recent auction sales, i.e. after deduction of their seller's fees.
4. Lastly, one senses a substantial number of buyers view the terms "realistically priced", "reasonably priced" and "fairly priced" in a very fluid manner and euphemistically, unconcerned about definitional precision.
They sometimes appear to use this wording synonymously with, "suitably‑priced for a fire sale".
Or "priced sufficiently below market value to make the purchase worth my while".
__________
Transparency, and even relative transparency, can certainly be nerve‑racking. Nobody really likes to show their hand.
But if we wish to demonstrate integrity, reduce confusion, and minimise the risk of wasting other people's time, it seems preferable to be clear and avoid using expressions that are open to conflicting interpretations.
When buyers are less than forthright about what they really mean, that is not especially comforting to potential sellers. It does little to encourage the making of initial contacts between the parties, let alone further engagement.
Because, rightly or wrongly, an apparent lack of candour can easily be interpreted as suspicious.
It might even suggest the buyer is of bad faith โ a chancer or opportunist hoping to come across some dupe who's willing to sell their artwork for substantially less than what it's really worth.
Looking for a Very Little Helps - unframed, excellent condition and realistically priced please. What is "realistically priced"?Excellent question, even if facetious. __________ As is also the case with "reasonably priced" and "fairly priced", the meaning of these terms often varies according to the individuals using them: 1. When used by buyers, some are just alluding to current market value, pure and simple. This is the all‑inclusive price an artwork is known to typically sell for at auction, in galleries, and/or via private sales by dealers or individual collectors. 2. Other buyers are referring to a certain middle‑ground price point โ for example, the average hammer price an artwork has achieved in recent auction sales (unless deemed to be outliers). Financially, this is mutually beneficial for both buyer and seller, since it is about midway between: (a) what the buyer would have had to pay at auction, including buyer's premium and applicable VAT or import duties; and (b) what the auction seller/consignor would presumably have received, net of their seller's fees (assuming such fees were incurred). 3. Yet other buyers are referring instead to the net‑proceeds amount that sellers/consignors will have received in recent auction sales, i.e. after deduction of their seller's fees. 4. Lastly, one senses a substantial number of buyers view the terms "realistically priced", "reasonably priced" and "fairly priced" in a very fluid manner and euphemistically, unconcerned about definitional precision. They sometimes appear to use this wording synonymously with, "suitably‑priced for a fire sale". Or "priced sufficiently below market value to make the purchase worth my while". __________ Transparency, and even relative transparency, can certainly be nerve‑racking. Nobody really likes to show their hand. But if we wish to demonstrate integrity, reduce confusion, and minimise the risk of wasting other people's time, it seems preferable to be clear and avoid using expressions that are open to conflicting interpretations. When buyers are less than forthright about what they really mean, that is not especially comforting to potential sellers. It does little to encourage the making of initial contacts between the parties, let alone further engagement. Because, rightly or wrongly, an apparent lack of candour can easily be interpreted as suspicious. It might even suggest the buyer is of bad faith โ a chancer or opportunist hoping to come across some dupe who's willing to sell their artwork for substantially less than what it's really worth.
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met
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WANTED โข What Art are you Searching for?, by met on Aug 7, 2023 18:52:15 GMT 1, Looking for works by Alfie Caine. Please get in touch if you have something for sale.
Over the past few months, I've been tempted to torpedo the Charlotte Keates thread* on this message board.
To be clear, Keates is not a bad artist.
But she is terribly average in my view, and unworthy of the level of enthusiasm she often receives here.
Her shtick โ heavily influenced by the interiors of David Hockney and, more recently, the likes of Jonas Wood โ is a style that has also been aped, borrowed and appropriated by so many other artists who still wear their influences so visibly on their sleeves.
When viewed, not simply in isolation, but among this broader pool of young Hockney acolytes, the singular features of Charlotte Keates' work become less evident, less notable. Worse still, they start to feel clichรฉd.
However, I really cannot say the same about Alfie Caine.
For years now, I've kept a distant yet keen eye on his architecture and interiors-themed paintings.
His art had been the example I planned to use by way of comparison, to put the limitations of Keates' talent more clearly into perspective. To my mind, Caine blows her (and most of their contemporaries) out of the water.
For the benefit of other members unfamilar with Caine's art, note his distinctive palette, the dreamlike or semi‑surreal tone of his work, its composition, the general calibre of execution, and some of the subtle details that aren't always noticed at first glance โ like the silhouette shadow in the first piece below:
Looking for works by Alfie Caine. Please get in touch if you have something for sale. Over the past few months, I've been tempted to torpedo the Charlotte Keates thread * on this message board. To be clear, Kea tes is not a bad artist. But she is terribly average in my view, and unworthy of the level of enthusiasm she often receives here. Her shtick โ heavily influenced by the interiors of David Hockney and, more recently, the likes of Jonas Wood โ is a style that has also been aped, borrowed and appropriated by so many other artists who still wear their influences so visibly on their sleeves. When viewed, not simply in isolation, but among this broader pool of young Ho ckney acolytes, the singular features of Charlotte Kea tes' work become less evident, less notable. Worse still, they start to feel clichรฉd. However, I really cannot say the same about Alfie Caine. For years now, I've kept a distant yet keen eye on his architecture and interiors-themed paintings. His art had been the example I planned to use by way of comparison, to put the limitations of Keates' talent more clearly into perspective. To my mind, Ca ine blows her (and most of their contemporaries) out of the water. For the benefit of other members unfamilar with Ca ine's art, note his distinctive palette, the dreamlike or semi‑surreal tone of his work, its composition, the general calibre of execution, and some of the subtle details that aren't always noticed at first glance โ like the silhouette shadow in the first piece below:
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met
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Ai Weiwei Avant Art Releases 2023, by met on Aug 6, 2023 16:58:04 GMT 1, Priming is the idea that exposure to one stimulus may influence a response to a subsequent stimulus, without conscious guidance or intention. The priming effect refers to the positive or negative effect of a rapidly presented stimulus on the processing of a second stimulus that appears shortly after. Does anyone know what sort of prices the private sales are doing for these? Iโm aware of a Mayfair gallery placing one of these with a collector for ยฃ12k
That is a helpful explanation of the priming effect.
And a fitting caveat, especially on this message board.
A complementary psychological term would be the anchoring effect:
www.pon.harvard.edu/daily/negotiation-skills-daily/the-drawbacks-of-goals/
The anchoring effect is a cognitive bias that describes the common human tendency to rely too heavily on the first piece of information offered (the โanchorโ) when making decisions.
During decision making, anchoring occurs when individuals use an initial piece of information to make subsequent judgments. Once an anchor is set, other judgments are made by adjusting away from that anchor, and there is a bias toward interpreting other information around the anchor.
For example, the initial price offered for a used car sets the standard for the rest of the negotiations, so that prices lower than the initial price seem more reasonable even if they are still higher than what the car is really worth.
Priming is the idea that exposure to one stimulus may influence a response to a subsequent stimulus, without conscious guidance or intention. The priming effect refers to the positive or negative effect of a rapidly presented stimulus on the processing of a second stimulus that appears shortly after. Does anyone know what sort of prices the private sales are doing for these? Iโm aware of a Mayfair gallery placing one of these with a collector for ยฃ12k That is a helpful explanation of the priming effect. And a fitting caveat, especially on this message board. A complementary psychological term would be the anchoring effect: www.pon.harvard.edu/daily/negotiation-skills-daily/the-drawbacks-of-goals/The anchoring effect is a cognitive bias that describes the common human tendency to rely too heavily on the first piece of information offered (the โanchorโ) when making decisions.
During decision making, anchoring occurs when individuals use an initial piece of information to make subsequent judgments. Once an anchor is set, other judgments are made by adjusting away from that anchor, and there is a bias toward interpreting other information around the anchor.
For example, the initial price offered for a used car sets the standard for the rest of the negotiations, so that prices lower than the initial price seem more reasonable even if they are still higher than what the car is really worth.
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met
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Damien Hirst โข Where the Land Meets the Sea, by met on Aug 6, 2023 15:40:57 GMT 1, Doldrums is the only one worth buying
Got to be Blizzard for me
Although envy is a terribly unattractive emotion, I must admit feeling envious about your respective levels of certainty.
Just like at the supermarket, when faced with 25 brands of olive oil, Damien Hirst and HENI are leaving me somewhat paralysed by the options they have on offer with Where the Land Meets the Sea:
heni.com/primary/collection/where-the-land-meets-the-sea
In this respect, abundance of choice, which should at least in theory confer freedom and vivication to members of society, can in practice have the very opposite effect.
__________
After hours of anxious dithering, I finally got my purchase shortlist down to three Hirst pieces, each of them being a definite maybe:
(i) Ha-ha! ;
(ii) What on Earth Were You Thinking? ; and
(iii) You Made Your Bed, Now Lie In It .
By tomorrow evening, I hope to have selected the perfect print to spend thousands of dollars on ("+ shipping and any applicable taxes").
Doldrums is the only one worth buying Got to be Blizzard for me Although envy is a terribly unattractive emotion, I must admit feeling envious about your respective levels of certainty. Just like at the supermarket, when fa ced with 25 brands of olive oil, Damien Hirst and HENI are leaving me somewhat paralysed by the options they have on offer with Where the Land Meets the Sea: heni.com/primary/collection/where-the-land-meets-the-seaIn this respect, abundance of choice, which should at least in theory confer freedom and vivication to members of society, can in practice have the very opposite effect. __________ After hours of anxious dithering, I finally got my purchase shortlist down to three Hi rst pieces, each of them being a definite maybe: (i) Ha-ha! ; (ii) What on Earth Were You Thinking? ; and (iii) You Made Your Bed, Now Lie In It . By tomorrow evening, I hope to have selected the perfect print to spend thousands of dollars on ( "+ shipping and any applicable taxes").
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met
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Damien Hirst H10 โข The Empresses, by met on Aug 5, 2023 19:10:45 GMT 1, Has anyone already had experience with the Empresses, more specifically the glitter on the surface and dust, and can report back? If you do a keyword search for "fluff", I think the original Empresses thread had some comments about glitter coming off, dust, fluff, etc.
Although not specific to any particular artworks, an informative general article about unframed (or framed without glazing) diamond-dust and glitter-covered pieces can be found on the website, DustMagnetsRUs.co.uk.
__________
Specifically regarding Damien Hirst's laminated inkjet and glitter prints, The Empresses, there used to be two other threads with posts on the issue of fluff and dust.
However, I sadly can no longer find these threads with the forum's Search facility. It's possible they have since been merged or moved elsewhere.
One was headed, Liberace's Wallpaper.
The other had a 'Recommendations Wanted'-style title. If memory serves, it was something like, Looking for home decor resembling the inside of my kaleidoscope.
Has anyone already had experience with the Empresses, more specifically the glitter on the surface and dust, and can report back? If you do a keyword search for "fluff", I think the original Empresses thread had some comments about glitter coming off, dust, fluff, etc. Although not specific to any particular artworks, an informative general article about unframed (or framed without glazing) diamond-dust and glitter-covered pieces can be found on the website, DustMagnetsRUs.co.uk. __________ Specifically regarding Damien Hirst's laminated inkjet and glitter prints, The Empresses, there used to be two other threads with posts on the issue of fluff and dust. However, I sadly can no longer find these threads with the fo rum's Search facility. It's possible they have since been merged or moved elsewhere. One was headed, Liberace's Wallpaper. The other had a 'Recommendations Wanted'-style title. If memory serves, it was something like, Looking for home decor resembling the inside of my kaleidoscope.
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met
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Banksy Show โข Cut & Run โข Glasgow , by met on Aug 4, 2023 14:55:07 GMT 1, Interesting addition to the Duke of Wellington statue....
A criterion like conceptual freshness is always pertinent when judging the artistic value of a new piece. It helps to separate the innovative from the hackneyed. The wheat from the chaff.
My own assessment of the above intervention would be in line with that of the pigeon's.
Interesting addition to the Duke of Wellington statue.... A criterion like conceptual freshness is always pertinent when judging the artistic value of a new piece. It helps to separate the innovative from the hackneyed. The wheat from the chaff. My own assessment of the above intervention would be in line with that of the pigeon's.
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met
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Cleon Peterson โข Tote Bag, by met on Aug 4, 2023 11:54:06 GMT 1,
Those additional steps are perhaps overly-complicated, even fussy.
In its current, original state, the stiffened-canvas Cleon Peterson was already made to be ready‑to‑hang.
No framing even needed, let alone separate D‑rings with cord or wire.
Just stick a nail in a wall, hang the piece by its handle, and that's you sorted.
Those additional steps are perhaps overly-complicated, even fussy. In its current, original state, the stiffened-canvas Cl eon Pet erson was already made to be ready‑to‑hang. No framing even needed, let alone separate D‑rings with cord or wire. Just stick a nail in a wall, hang the piece by its handle, and that's you sorted.
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What Music are you listening to at the moment ?, by met on Aug 3, 2023 22:13:43 GMT 1, There is some magic happening here
Query whether the moments of magic you're referring to could perhaps in part be a gentle nod (even a subconscious one) to Burt Bacharach and Perry Como:
There is some magic happening here Query whether the moments of magic you're referring to could perhaps in part be a gentle nod (even a subconscious one) to Burt Bacharach and Perry Como:
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met
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CharityStars โข Genuine or Fake?, by met on Aug 3, 2023 21:55:16 GMT 1,
Regrettably, that print is not by Andy Warhol.
If you bring it into any credible auction house (e.g. Christie's, Sotheby's or Phillips), or any credible specialist dealer of Warhol artworks, they will immediately confirm the same.
I would now focus your efforts on trying to get a refund from CharityStars.com. They are rather notorious scammers.
If you wisely paid using a debit or credit card, then contact your card issuer in the first instance and request they iniate a chargeback.
Going forward, please beware of giving any entity the benefit of the doubt simply because they cynically included the words "charity", "auctions" or "gallery" in their business names.
A couple of forum threads for additional reference:
urbanartassociation.com/thread/183829/banksy-fakes-on-charitystars
urbanartassociation.com/thread/183566/charitystars
Regrettably, that print is not by Andy War hol. If you bring it into any credible auction house (e.g. Ch ristie's, So theby's or Phi llips), or any credible specialist dealer of War hol artworks, they will immediately confirm the same. I would now focus your efforts on trying to get a refund from CharityStars.com. They are rather notorious scammers. If you wisely paid using a debit or credit card, then contact your card issuer in the first instance and request they iniate a chargeback. Going forward, please beware of giving any entity the benefit of the doubt simply because they cynically included the words "charity", "auctions" or "gallery" in their business names. A couple of fo rum threads for additional reference: urbanartassociation.com/thread/183829/banksy-fakes-on-charitystarsurbanartassociation.com/thread/183566/charitystars
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met
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TOX ๐ฌ๐ง Graffiti โข Street Art โข Art For Sale, by met on Aug 3, 2023 20:44:03 GMT 1, I love this one, just released this year
The original at Beyond the Streets. ๐๐ป๐๐ป
Obvious to many, but perhaps not to everyone โ especially if they have never visited London, or if they shy away from public transportation:
The Tox pieces are based on the London Underground map, originally created in the early 1930s by Henry Beck*:
Beck's design was arguably revolutionary. It foregoed geographical accuracy in favour of user‑friendliness:
(i) colour‑coded Tube lines;
(ii) Tube lines often laid out horizontally or vertically; and
(iii) stations more‑equally‑spaced on the map, regardless of the actual distances between them in situ.
__________
Tox's imagery is of course self‑referencing.
In graffiti parlance, the writer is confirming that he is all‑city as far as London is concerned.
And for the benefit of anyone who is unaware, DDS (a.k.a. Diabolical Dubstars, or other stylised variants of that name) is a prolific, old‑school crew that has been around for 3+ decades.
__________
By way of aside, it felt a little surprising to discover Tox and 10 Foot had taken part in the corporate-sponsored, commercial extravaganza that was Beyond the Streets.
Unlike a few other DDS crew members who have happily collaborated with the likes of Palace and Maharishi, Tox and 10 Foot always came across as particularly uncompromising to me.
Moreover, to see their work at a venue like Saatchi Gallery also jarred.
The Continental and North American artist and writer participants at the show could be forgiven for their ignorance. But any Brit would or should have known that Charles Saatchi was a key figure who helped bring Margaret Thatcher into power in 1979, with the admittedly-inspired campaign, Labour Isn't Working*.
Perhaps legacy considerations took precedence over how comfortably a Thatcher‑crony venue sat with the cultures of graffiti and street art.
I'll leave that issue for other forum members to consider.
__________
Over the course of three series between 2003โ2006, ITV London aired a documentary programme called The Tube, which was broadcast as well by Sky.
The following clip focuses largely on Tox and is worth a watch. It's an amusing extract from Episode 1 of Series 2 (Underground Crime) from 2004:
The Tube - Tox Graffiti Special - uploaded by Graffwarsdotcom
This Financial Times profile on 10 Foot, dated 3 February 2023, is also a good read:
www.ft.com/content/45a184ee-b7d9-4c16-b1c2-71def32ccf98
I love this one, just released this year The original at Beyond the Streets. ๐๐ป๐๐ป Obvious to many, but perhaps not to everyone โ especially if they have never visited Lon don, or if they shy away from public transportation: The Tox pieces are based on the London Underground map, originally created in the early 1930s by Henry Beck*: Beck's design was arguably revolutionary. It foregoed geographical accuracy in favour of user‑friendliness: (i) colour‑coded Tube lines; (ii) Tube lines often laid out horizontally or vertically; and (iii) stations more‑equally‑spaced on the map, regardless of the actual distances between them in situ. __________ Tox's imagery is of course self‑referencing. In graffiti parlance, the writer is confirming that he is all‑city as far as Lon don is concerned. And for the benefit of anyone who is unaware, DDS (a.k.a. Diabolical Dubstars, or other stylised variants of that name) is a prolific, old‑school crew that has been around for 3+ decades. __________ By way of aside, it felt a little surprising to discover Tox and 10 Foot had taken part in the corporate-sponsored, commercial extravaganza that was Beyond the Streets. Unlike a few other DDS crew members who have happily collaborated with the likes of Palace and Maharishi, Tox and 10 Foot always came across as particularly uncompromising to me. Moreover, to see their work at a venue like Saatchi Gallery also jarred. The Continental and North American artist and writer participants at the show could be forgiven for their ignorance. But any Brit would or should have known that Charles Saatchi was a key figure who helped bring Margaret Thatcher into power in 1979, with the admittedly-inspired campaign, Labour Isn't Working*. Perhaps legacy considerations took precedence over how comfortably a Thatcher‑crony venue sat with the cultures of gra ffiti and str eet art. I'll leave that issue for other fo rum members to consider. __________ Over the course of three series between 2003โ2006, ITV Lon don aired a documentary programme called The Tube, which was broadcast as well by Sky. The following clip focuses largely on Tox and is worth a watch. It's an amusing extract from Episode 1 of Series 2 ( Underground Crime) from 2004: The Tube - Tox Graffiti Special- uploaded by GraffwarsdotcomThis Financial Times profile on 10 Foot, dated 3 February 2023, is also a good read: www.ft.com/content/45a184ee-b7d9-4c16-b1c2-71def32ccf98
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met
Junior Member
Posts โข 2,688
Likes โข 6,320
June 2009
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Mason Storm ๐ฌ๐ง New Print Release โข Who is Mason Storm?, by met on Aug 3, 2023 17:51:46 GMT 1, Is this based off a notable original work? Not familiar with it...
The Bullingdon Club*, group photo, 1987:
Unsurprisingly, the new Mason Storm is another tired rehash of the underlying idea for Banksy's artwork, Question Time / Devolved Parliament:
Is this based off a notable original work? Not familiar with it... The Bullingdon Club*, group photo, 1987: Unsurprisingly, the new Mason Storm is another tired rehash of the underlying idea for Ban ksy's artwork, Question Time / Devolved Parliament:
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met
Junior Member
Posts โข 2,688
Likes โข 6,320
June 2009
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Gagosian Art Galleries, by met on Aug 3, 2023 17:28:48 GMT 1, The merging of multiple posts/threads seems forced in this instance. It has created a thread that is now disjointed. And wanting in coherence, since only the last post dated 28 July (with attached link) is actually relevant to the title. __________ Cheers for recommending the Larry Gagosian profile. Engaging and informative. I was unable to read the article because I've already used up my free allocation with The New Yorker. However, after accessing the site again, I did have about eight seconds to click the start icon for Listen to this story (just beneath the article's banner image and title) before I got the message, "Youโve read your last free article."And fortunately, once started, the audio continued even after the paywall had popped up. That also turned what would otherwise have been a long read into an easy-listening podcast โ albeit one whose duration was close to two hours. Among the snippets of info I was previously ignorant about was the extent of the influence that Gagosian's backing had on the career of Cy Twombly in his later years. More anecdotally, I had no idea that Kim Gordon of Sonic Youth was once an employee of Gagosian. Thanks again for the tip. met you can use this site 12ft.io/ to get around most paywalls, it's how I was able to read the article.
Duly noted.
Curiously, viewing the Gagosian article from The New Yorker via that site excludes the audio/podcast option and some of the photos.
Yet just being aware this kind of paywall bypass actually exists was an eye‑opener for me.
I also tried 12ft.io to access Artnet News Pro โ which often features articles with interesting‑sounding titles (especially by the Art Business Editor, Tim Schneider). But sadly no joy on that front.
Thank you for the recommendation. Looking forward to making good use of this site in the future.
The merging of multiple posts/threads seems forced in this instance. It has created a thread that is now disjointed. And wanting in coherence, since only the last post dated 28 July (with attached link) is actually relevant to the title. __________ Cheers for recommending the Larry Gagosian profile. Engaging and informative. I was unable to read the article because I've already used up my free allocation with The New Yorker. However, after accessing the site again, I did have about eight seconds to click the start icon for Listen to this story (just beneath the article's banner image and title) before I got the message, "Youโve read your last free article."And fortunately, once started, the audio continued even after the paywall had popped up. That also turned what would otherwise have been a long read into an easy-listening podcast โ albeit one whose duration was close to two hours. Among the snippets of info I was previously ignorant about was the extent of the influence that Gagosian's backing had on the career of Cy Twombly in his later years. More anecdotally, I had no idea that Kim Gordon of Sonic Youth was once an employee of Gagosian. Thanks again for the tip. met you can use this site 12ft.io/ to get around most paywalls, it's how I was able to read the article. Duly noted. Curiously, viewing the Gagosian article from The New Yorker via that site excludes the audio/podcast option and some of the photos. Yet just being aware this kind of paywall bypass actually exists was an eye‑opener for me. I also tried 12ft.io to access Artnet News Pro โ which often features articles with interesting‑sounding titles (especially by the Art Business Editor, Tim Schneider). But sadly no joy on that front. Thank you for the recommendation. Looking forward to making good use of this site in the future.
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met
Junior Member
Posts โข 2,688
Likes โข 6,320
June 2009
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Gagosian Art Galleries, by met on Jul 31, 2023 22:55:13 GMT 1,
The merging of multiple posts/threads seems forced in this instance.
It has created a thread that is now disjointed. And wanting in coherence, since only the last post dated 28 July (with attached link) is actually relevant to the title.
__________
Cheers for recommending the Larry Gagosian profile. Engaging and informative.
I was unable to read the article because I've already used up my free allocation with The New Yorker.
However, after accessing the site again, I did have about eight seconds to click the start icon for Listen to this story (just beneath the article's banner image and title) before I got the message, "Youโve read your last free article."
And fortunately, once started, the audio continued even after the paywall had popped up.
That also turned what would otherwise have been a long read into an easy-listening podcast โ albeit one whose duration was close to two hours.
Among the snippets of info I was previously ignorant about was the extent of the influence that Gagosian's backing had on the career of Cy Twombly in his later years. More anecdotally, I had no idea that Kim Gordon of Sonic Youth was once an employee of Gagosian.
Thanks again for the tip.
The merging of multiple posts/threads seems forced in this instance. It has created a thread that is now disjointed. And wanting in coherence, since only the last post dated 28 July (with attached link) is actually relevant to the title. __________ Cheers for recommending the Larry Gagosian profile. Engaging and informative. I was unable to read the article because I've already used up my free allocation with The New Yorker. However, after accessing the site again, I did have about eight seconds to click the start icon for Listen to this story (just beneath the article's banner image and title) before I got the message, "Youโve read your last free article."And fortunately, once started, the audio continued even after the paywall had popped up. That also turned what would otherwise have been a long read into an easy-listening podcast โ albeit one whose duration was close to two hours. Among the snippets of info I was previously ignorant about was the extent of the influence that Gagosian's backing had on the career of Cy Twombly in his later years. More anecdotally, I had no idea that Kim Gordon of Sonic Youth was once an employee of Gagosian. Thanks again for the tip.
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met
Junior Member
Posts โข 2,688
Likes โข 6,320
June 2009
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For Sale: Alec Monopoly / Kai art / WRDSMTH, by met on Jul 27, 2023 13:59:08 GMT 1, I am open to proposal. You can DM me Thanks David
Although the advice below may sound old‑fashioned, it is based on human psychology and therefore retains a modern‑day relevance:
Being seen to rush into these things unfortunately suggests desperation. And that alone will be an immediate turnoff for many.
You will likely receive far greater interest just by playing it cool instead. Let people get to know you first. Keep things light and pressure‑free. At least initially, until they become emotionally invested.
An invitation for coffee, or even to an art show, might be a good start.
That would let you meet potential candidates beforehand. Conveniently, it would thereby also allow you to exclude any suitors with, for example, personal hygiene issues. Or those who no longer have their own teeth.
I am open to proposal. You can DM me Thanks David Although the advice below may sound old‑fashioned, it is based on human psychology and therefore retains a modern‑day relevance: Being seen to rush into these things unfortunately suggests desperation. And that alone will be an immediate turnoff for many. You will likely receive far greater interest just by playing it cool instead. Let people get to know you first. Keep things light and pressure‑free. At least initially, until they become emotionally invested. An invitation for coffee, or even to an art show, might be a good start. That would let you meet potential candidates beforehand. Conveniently, it would thereby also allow you to exclude any suitors with, for example, personal hygiene issues. Or those who no longer have their own teeth.
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met
Junior Member
Posts โข 2,688
Likes โข 6,320
June 2009
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Collecting Pottery & Ceramics, by met on Jul 21, 2023 6:49:00 GMT 1, Its all got so confusing. where would I find 'post Your new art' and all the cool other stuff. The index has all gone. Its now 'new posts' or 'new threads'. Don't they know we are all old people and do not embrace change.
Don't know about 'post Your new art', I'm afraid.
But all the cool other stuff is easy to locate.
If having difficulties, could there be an issue with your web browser?
Maybe try shutting down your computer and then restarting it again.
__________
In case it makes any difference, I'm using Firefox, and the Search options are working fine on my laptop.
These step-by-step instructions may also assist:
1. From the UAA homepage, just beneath the advertising banners and rows headed New Posts and New Threads, you should be able to spot the following four rows / subsection headings:
- Urban Art โข Street Art - Art For Sale - Urban Art Auctions - Framing โข Art Restoration
2. Click any of the four subsection headings (it doesn't matter which one, because the end result is conveniently always the same).
This will take you to a new page.
3. Now, make sure you've scrolled all the way up the screen.
4. Can you see the very first thread, which has been helpfully prioritised?
Its title includes a reference to "TOP 10".
That is where all the cool stuff is found on the forum.
Its all got so confusing. where would I find 'post Your new art' and all the cool other stuff. The index has all gone. Its now 'new posts' or 'new threads'. Don't they know we are all old people and do not embrace change. Don't know about 'post Your new art', I'm afraid. But all the cool other stuff is easy to locate. If having difficulties, could there be an issue with your web browser? Maybe try shutting down your computer and then restarting it again. __________ In case it makes any difference, I'm using Firefox, and the Search options are working fine on my laptop. These step-by-step instructions may also assist: 1. From the UAA homepage, just beneath the advertising banners and rows headed New Posts and New Threads, you should be able to spot the following four rows / subsection headings: - Urban Art โข Street Art - Art For Sale - Urban Art Auctions - Framing โข Art Restoration2. Click any of the four subsection headings (it doesn't matter which one, because the end result is conveniently always the same). This will take you to a new page. 3. Now, make sure you've scrolled all the way up the screen. 4. Can you see the very first thread, which has been helpfully prioritised? Its title includes a reference to "TOP 10". That is where all the cool stuff is found on the fo rum.
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met
Junior Member
Posts โข 2,688
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June 2009
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met and co's critique on MBW, by met on Jul 19, 2023 12:53:19 GMT 1, met is undoubtedly one of the most helpful and valuable contributors on this fo rum, especially when it comes to calling out misleading, dubious or deceiving posts However this sales thread is none of those things Quite the contrary : it is forthcoming, legible, detailed, illustrated, with a price guide, and invitation for discussion. Commenting on the art is probably best reserved to the dedicated sections
Thank you for this.
And apologies in advance. Because debate‑wise, the wall of text that follows may be a little dull, with so little appearing to separate our respective positions.
__________
There are some resellers who wish to use this forum as their personal selling platform, but without the bothersome eBay or auction‑house fees. And without the inconvenience of negative quips by other members.
We see this rather often. A misplaced entitlement by resellers is immediately exposed each time one of them refers to "my thread". Such wording almost suggests they believe a thread they initiated on a public message board should be treated by others as their private property. In other words, something they (in their own minds) feel they have the right to be territorial over.
And when that sense of entitlement is somehow threatened, a number of these resellers quickly pivot to shrill mode: defensive, passive‑aggressive, and/or hysterical.
For an adult, one who should normally possess an adult‑level of resilience, that sort of behaviour seems unbecoming.
__________
Thankfully, yet also unsurprisingly given your posting history, I sense no general desire by you to stifle discussion or commentary.
The appropriate location for comments may well be the sole point on which we diverge.
And actually, the scope of our disagreement is possibly even more limited:
Perhaps you aren't referring to all comments โ but only those that could be perceived as criticisms, whether in substance or tone.
Please correct me if this speculation on my part is wrong.
I mention the point because I've never witnessed a reseller throw a hissy fit when the works they were offloading received any comments of praise. You know the type:
"Stunning print, mate. GLWTS"
"Awesome!!! This will be gone in a flash!!!"
"If I didn't already own one of these prints, I would bite your hand off at that price."
etc., etc.
Such remarks can quickly lead to the kind of thread‑post asymmetry that is loved by resellers who want it both ways. Their thoughts easily summarised:
"Commentary is most welcome in my sales thread, but please respect the fact that only positive comments are acceptable."
__________
Cheers again for your kind words on the contributions I try to make regarding dubious or deceptive posts.
There is though another broad area I frequently allocate my time to. Eschewing false modesty, this is where I believe I can occasionally also bring something fresh to table, and hopefully add value to the forum. Predictably, however, my posts on these matters are more contentious (whether or not due to vested interests that might be affected).
For me as a long‑term art enthusiast, the target audience here is especially fellow members who may be less informed, less experienced, less discerning, or simply less demanding.
Such posts are never intended to tell anybody what to think, but rather to encourage more thinking. In a clearheaded manner.
"Question everything" (including everything I write) would be the highly‑unoriginal advice I find myself repeating, either earnestly or through attempts at humour.
Obvious basic questions exist, that each of us must consider when weighing up a possible purchase.
But with newer, younger or overly‑enthusiastic collectors, I often sense they aren't actually asking themselves these questions, let alone answering them. It may be that they're sometimes under the undue influence of sales patter, hype, the fear of missing out, or a sense of false urgency.
And so, one of my duties (which others have every right to knock, should they so wish) is to encourage those collectors to step back, pause, and reflect a little further. With a more critical and discriminating mindset. To reduce their likelihood of making what they might later deem to be purchase mistakes.
I've cited them before*, but here is a handful of these questions:
(i) Why exactly do I like this piece?
Or, if the reasons are different, Why do I want to own this piece?
(ii) What are the artwork's strengths, and what are its weaknesses?
(iii) Is the art / artist actually any good?
(iv) Am I perhaps buying with my ears rather than my eyes, and therefore behaving like a lemming? To what extent is my desire to acquire this piece being influenced by what other people are buying, or appearing to buy?
To potential purchasers, I believe that direct or indirect reminders of these basic questions are opportune and most helpfully relevant when posted within actual sale threads. If only for balance.
In addition, such reminders arguably become pressing, if not urgent, for works with sale prices in the four+ figures.
And all the more so when, individual tastes and preferences aside*, and according instead to standards/criteria broadly accepted by the art world, those works can without unfairness be dismissed as objectively poor โ for example, due to their patently derivative, trite, formulaic, incoherent or vacuous nature.
__________
While I don't expect to sway many members, especially resellers, as to the merits of my stance, I do hope the above will assist in showing that my occasional pisstaking is motivated neither by pettiness nor by malice.
Of course, some of the thinner‑skinned resellers among us will always take issue with a bit of cheerful ribbing.
But I suspect that is also offset by the casual offensiveness of their own actions โ particularly when they cynically target naive or less‑informed members with bad art at exhorbitant prices. And then expect everyone else to shut up.
Thus, rather fortuitously, mutual grievances on the forum tend to balance each other out. What we end up with collectively is a harmonious‑dissonance.
And I myself am reasonably comfortable with that.
met is undoubtedly one of the most helpful and valuable contributors on this fo rum, especially when it comes to calling out misleading, dubious or deceiving posts However this sales thread is none of those things Quite the contrary : it is forthcoming, legible, detailed, illustrated, with a price guide, and invitation for discussion. Commenting on the art is probably best reserved to the dedicated sections Thank you for this. And apologies in advance. Because debate‑wise, the wall of text that follows may be a little dull, with so little appearing to separate our respective positions. __________ There are some resellers who wish to use this fo rum as their personal selling platform, but without the bothersome eB ay or auction‑house fees. And without the inconvenience of negative quips by other members. We see this rather often. A misplaced entitlement by resellers is immediately exposed each time one of them refers to "my thread". Such wording almost suggests they believe a thread they initiated on a public message board should be treated by others as their private property. In other words, something they (in their own minds) feel they have the right to be territorial over. And when that sense of entitlement is somehow threatened, a number of these resellers quickly pivot to shrill mode: defensive, passive‑aggressive, and/or hysterical. For an adult, one who should normally possess an adult‑level of resilience, that sort of behaviour seems unbecoming. __________ Thankfully, yet also unsurprisingly given your posting history, I sense no general desire by you to stifle discussion or commentary. The appropriate location for comments may well be the sole point on which we diverge. And actually, the scope of our disagreement is possibly even more limited: Perhaps you aren't referring to all comments โ but only those that could be perceived as criticisms, whether in substance or tone. Please correct me if this speculation on my part is wrong. I mention the point because I've never witnessed a reseller throw a hissy fit when the works they were offloading received any comments of praise. You know the type: "Stunning print, mate. GLWTS""Awesome!!! This will be gone in a flash!!!""If I didn't already own one of these prints, I would bite your hand off at that price."etc., etc. Such remarks can quickly lead to the kind of thread‑post asymmetry that is loved by resellers who want it both ways. Their thoughts easily summarised: "Commentary is most welcome in my sales thread, but please respect the fact that only positive comments are acceptable."__________ Cheers again for your kind words on the contributions I try to make regarding dubious or deceptive posts. There is though another broad area I frequently allocate my time to. Eschewing false modesty, this is where I believe I can occasionally also bring something fresh to table, and hopefully add value to the for um. Predictably, however, my posts on these matters are more contentious (whether or not due to vested interests that might be affected). For me as a long‑term art enthusiast, the target audience here is especially fellow members who may be less informed, less experienced, less discerning, or simply less demanding. Such posts are never intended to tell anybody what to think, but rather to encourage more thinking. In a clearheaded manner. "Question everything" (including everything I write) would be the highly‑unoriginal advice I find myself repeating, either earnestly or through attempts at humour. Obvious basic questions exist, that each of us must consider when weighing up a possible purchase. But with newer, younger or overly‑enthusiastic collectors, I often sense they aren't actually asking themselves these questions, let alone answering them. It may be that they're sometimes under the undue influence of sales patter, hype, the fear of missing out, or a sense of false urgency. And so, one of my duties (which others have every right to knock, should they so wish) is to encourage those collectors to step back, pause, and reflect a little further. With a more critical and discriminating mindset. To reduce their likelihood of making what they might later deem to be purchase mistakes. I've cited them before *, but here is a handful of these questions: (i) Why exactly do I like this piece?Or, if the reasons are different, Why do I want to own this piece?(ii) What are the artwork's strengths, and what are its weaknesses?(iii) Is the art / artist actually any good?(iv) Am I perhaps buying with my ears rather than my eyes, and therefore behaving like a lemming? To what extent is my desire to acquire this piece being influenced by what other people are buying, or appearing to buy?To potential purchasers, I believe that direct or indirect reminders of these basic questions are opportune and most helpfully relevant when posted within actual sale threads. If only for balance. In addition, such reminders arguably become pressing, if not urgent, for works with sale prices in the four+ figures. And all the more so when, individual tastes and preferences aside*, and according instead to standards/criteria broadly accepted by the art world, those works can without unfairness be dismissed as objectively poor โ for example, due to their patently derivative, trite, formulaic, incoherent or vacuous nature. __________ While I don't expect to sway many members, especially resellers, as to the merits of my stance, I do hope the above will assist in showing that my occasional pisstaking is motivated neither by pettiness nor by malice. Of course, some of the thinner‑skinned resellers among us will always take issue with a bit of cheerful ribbing. But I suspect that is also offset by the casual offensiveness of their own actions โ particularly when they cynically target naive or less‑informed members with bad art at exhorbitant prices. And then expect everyone else to shut up. Thus, rather fortuitously, mutual grievances on the fo rum tend to balance each other out. What we end up with collectively is a harmonious‑dissonance. And I myself am reasonably comfortable with that.
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met
Junior Member
Posts โข 2,688
Likes โข 6,320
June 2009
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met and co's critique on MBW, by met on Jul 17, 2023 6:42:58 GMT 1, Love me my MBW.
Moi non plus.
Love me my MBW. Moi non plus.
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met
Junior Member
Posts โข 2,688
Likes โข 6,320
June 2009
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Gonefellow ๐ฌ๐ง Print Release โข Street Art โข Art For Sale, by met on Jul 15, 2023 3:11:01 GMT 1, I donโt know how do you find threads, my friends, I never have the luck or the intelligence ( who knows ? ) to find one ! Anyway, before Covid some years ago, at the autumn if my memory is good, an exhibition of Gonefellow was envisaged in Lon don. Today, GF made an update on Insta ! I really need a passport quickly ( not before autumn ) .. Listen, there is music ... ๐ถ www.instagram.com/reel/CurlcPdJI2R/?igshid=Y2IzZGU1MTFhOQ==
I've always viewed Gonefellow as a non‑talent. Or, if being generous, a middling talent.
That said, he does have a knack for selecting which associations to force, and what coattails to ride.
In this instance, I applaud the choice of music accompanying his latest Instagram post (even if merely the result of Googling songs with the word "fragile" in the lyrics):
https://www.instagram.com/reel/CurlcPdJI2R
__________
Although a rarely mentioned bit of trivia, on the evening of 13 November 2015, the Eagles of Death Metal weren't actually the scheduled main event at the Bataclan in Paris.
The final performance was reserved for Karen Carpenter, who had then recently been brought back from the dead. Moreover, she had successfully recovered from her long‑term anorexia.
Notwithstanding the unexpected, significant obstacles at the venue that night, Carpenter remained ever the professional.
Instinctively she just knew. Since her teenage years, it had always been drummed into her:
The show must go on.
Weyes Blood - It's Not Just Me, It's Everybody (2022)
I donโt know how do you find threads, my friends, I never have the luck or the intelligence ( who knows ? ) to find one ! Anyway, before Covid some years ago, at the autumn if my memory is good, an exhibition of Gonefellow was envisaged in Lon don. Today, GF made an update on Insta ! I really need a passport quickly ( not before autumn ) .. Listen, there is music ... ๐ถ www.instagram.com/reel/CurlcPdJI2R/?igshid=Y2IzZGU1MTFhOQ==I've always viewed Gonefellow as a non‑talent. Or, if being generous, a middling talent. That said, he does have a knack for selecting which associations to force, and what coattails to ride. In this instance, I applaud the choice of music accompanying his latest Ins tagram post (even if merely the result of Googling songs with the word "fragile" in the lyrics): https://www.instagram.com/reel/CurlcPdJI2R __________ Although a rarely mentioned bit of trivia, on the evening of 13 November 2015, the Eagles of Death Metal weren't actually the scheduled main event at the Bataclan in Paris. The final performance was reserved for Karen Carpenter, who had then recently been brought back from the dead. Moreover, she had successfully recovered from her long‑term anorexia. Notwithstanding the unexpected, significant obstacles at the venue that night, Carpenter remained ever the professional. Instinctively she just knew. Since her teenage years, it had always been drummed into her: The show must go on.Weyes Blood - It's Not Just Me, It's Everybody (2022)
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met
Junior Member
Posts โข 2,688
Likes โข 6,320
June 2009
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met and co's critique on MBW, by met on Jul 15, 2023 1:35:26 GMT 1, Mr. Brainwash Anarchy Soldier, 2012 Screenprint and stencil in colors on paper 30 ร 22 3/8 in | 76.2 ร 56.8 cm Edition/250 signed and thumb print there are 2 on eb ay @ ยฃ5000 fa ir art have 1 for ยฃ4000 looking for offers around ยฃ3k if im off with price please correct me located Lon don
A fitting tribute by Mr Brainwash.
The individual depicted quite rightly deserves wider recognition.
Easily missed at first glace, but behold the levels of skill and dexterity on display:
This particular foot guard was able to apply acrylic or oil to a wall with a large paint roller โ and yet still make the finished work look like it was spraypainted.
To my eyes, that is as impressive as the aerosol x‑ray art by SHOK‑1.
Mr. Brainwash Anarchy Soldier, 2012 Screenprint and stencil in colors on paper 30 ร 22 3/8 in | 76.2 ร 56.8 cm Edition/250 signed and thumb print there are 2 on eb ay @ ยฃ5000 fa ir art have 1 for ยฃ4000 looking for offers around ยฃ3k if im off with price please correct me located Lon don A fitting tribute by Mr Brainwash. The individual depicted quite rightly deserves wider recognition. Easily missed at first glace, but behold the levels of skill and dexterity on display: This particular foot guard was able to apply acrylic or oil to a wall with a large paint roller โ and yet still make the finished work look like it was spraypainted. To my eyes, that is as impressive as the aerosol x‑ray art by SHOK‑1.
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met
Junior Member
Posts โข 2,688
Likes โข 6,320
June 2009
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DRAN Print, Canvas, WANTED, by met on Jul 15, 2023 0:02:29 GMT 1, This is random but came across this photo of Jason Statham and couldn't help but notice the Dran pieces behind them
Forgive my indulgence, but I will prolong the pleasure of veering off course for a moment.
Given his delightfully idiosyncratic CV, I cannot help but cheer on Jason Statham for his successes:
1990 - Commonwealth Games, Auckland, NZ Ozzy Man Reviews: Jason Statham Diving โ uploaded by Ozzy Man Reviews
1994 - Erasure music video Erasure - Run to the Sun โ uploaded by erasureinfo
2015 - Spy Spy jason statham scene 2 โ uploaded by Keepintouch Kumariung
This is random but came across this photo of Jason Statham and couldn't help but notice the Dran pieces behind them Forgive my indulgence, but I will prolong the pleasure of veering off course for a moment. Given his delightfully idiosyncratic CV, I cannot help but cheer on Jason Statham for his successes: 1990 - Commonwealth Games, Auckland, NZOzzy Man Reviews: Jason Statham Diving โ uploaded by Ozzy Man Reviews1994 - Erasure music videoErasure - Run to the Sun โ uploaded by erasureinfo2015 - SpySpy jason statham scene 2 โ uploaded by Keepintouch Kumariung
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met
Junior Member
Posts โข 2,688
Likes โข 6,320
June 2009
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DRAN Print, Canvas, WANTED, by met on Jul 13, 2023 22:22:02 GMT 1, This is random but came across this photo of Jason Statham and couldn't help but notice the Dran pieces behind them Nice photo. I had the pleasure of meeting RHW once - surprisingly down to earth and generous. I'm no authority on Dran, (there are some members on here who are), but to my eye I do not think the paintings in this photo are by Dran. Did you see other photos from a different angle which shows the pieces more clearly?
You know what, you could be right. It looked like Dran at first but now I'm having second thoughts...
You'll be familiar with his film work, but it's also worth checking out the photography and fine art of David Lynch.
With this couple, I suspect it's Huntington-Whiteley who's taking the lead on the home‑decor front. She has a strong eye.
This is random but came across this photo of Jason Statham and couldn't help but notice the Dran pieces behind them Nice photo. I had the pleasure of meeting RHW once - surprisingly down to earth and generous. I'm no authority on Dran, (there are some members on here who are), but to my eye I do not think the paintings in this photo are by Dran. Did you see other photos from a different angle which shows the pieces more clearly? You know what, you could be right. It looked like Dran at first but now I'm having second thoughts... You'll be familiar with his film work, but it's also worth checking out the photography and fine art of David Lynch. With this couple, I suspect it's Huntington-Whiteley who's taking the lead on the home‑decor front. She has a strong eye.
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met
Junior Member
Posts โข 2,688
Likes โข 6,320
June 2009
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Orange Order Rat - Fake or Real Banksy?, by met on Jun 28, 2023 0:40:47 GMT 1, I share some of the comments posted above. I personally feel uncomfortable that some people are making money out of the fact that someone else posted an opinion that later proved to be incorrect. Nobody should be penalised for expressing their opinion. I think those that were to benefit from this bet should publicly declare that they do not want and will not accept the money. lol he's not getting fined, it was a bet that he suggested! ๐ I like Met but he suggested crazy odds to prove a point and it backfired!
Impressively, you managed to be about 100 times more concise than I was at expressing my own thoughts.
Except maybe for the "lol".
And I would perhaps also have used "difficult-to-resist odds" instead of "crazy odds".
But that's just my pedantic side coming to the fore.
I share some of the comments posted above. I personally feel uncomfortable that some people are making money out of the fact that someone else posted an opinion that later proved to be incorrect. Nobody should be penalised for expressing their opinion. I think those that were to benefit from this bet should publicly declare that they do not want and will not accept the money. lol he's not getting fined, it was a bet that he suggested! ๐ I like Met but he suggested crazy odds to prove a point and it backfired! Impressively, you managed to be about 100 times more concise than I was at expressing my own thoughts. Except maybe for the "lol". And I would perhaps also have used "difficult-to-resist odds" instead of "crazy odds". But that's just my pedantic side coming to the fore.
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met
Junior Member
Posts โข 2,688
Likes โข 6,320
June 2009
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Orange Order Rat - Fake or Real Banksy?, by met on Jun 28, 2023 0:20:16 GMT 1, It shows courage of conviction to express your thoughts early on. Up until only recently the poll showed that the majority involved (in the poll at least) thought the rat was genuine. Yet only one person was brave enough to stake their position. As an incentive to free speech I believe the bet should be annulled.
While appreciating the underlying sentiment, my own stance is the polar opposite.
1. The bets were fair
Both bets were entered into by the parties with open eyes. Nobody was deceived or misled.
I, the loser on these occasions, initiated the bets. And the calculated 100‑to‑1 odds offered were an accurate reflection of how confident I was that the Orange Order rat was a Banksy. I didn't believe I'd lose.
[To be clear, this belief wasn't down to blind hubris. It was based on the available evidence, with me trying to make some use of my eyes and brain.
Factored into my assessment were a variety of details (previously mentioned or referred to) pointing straight to Banksy.
Moreover, there were elements suggesting the piece was also unlikely to have been the creation of a mimic.
They included the theme of the artwork:
Copycat Banksys are for the most part innocuous, typically covering subjects that are lighthearted or relatively safe. It therefore came as a real surprise to me that anyone creating a faux Banksy would go near the hot potato of mocking participants of the Orange Marches. Along with "Down with the monarchy!", that is comparable to saying, "Unchain the Unicorn!". Or even "Reunify Ireland!" โ being the kind of thing that can potentially get somebody stabbed.
The elements indicating the Orange Order rat was perhaps not by Banksy were weighed up as well, but they weren't sufficient to tip the scale for me.
Such evidence included a certain lack of wit and clear message (at least for a standalone piece that wasn't part of a series of multiple works); facial expression similarities with a 2020 lockdown Tube rat; an atypical placement for the artist; the incoherence with how the trap was set off; and questions regarding the actual point of the trap (even if the rat had been interested in the newspaper used as bait, its hands were never free to make a grab for it in the first place).
Admittedly, my guard was slightly let down by far-less-credible-yet-still-decent fakes over the years, such as the 2012 rat in Taunton, Somerset. That piece was accompanied by bad freehand additions in red: the ladder and the cringeworthy text, "PAINT TO ESCAPE", in the most non‑Banksy of writing styles.]
As soon as I made each bet, the necessary funds on my side were ring‑fenced. These bets were serious, not the hollow words of some flake.
What I also (incorrectly) assumed is that, if I was going to lose, it would most likely be due to Banksy not laying claim to his own work by 28 August, possibly because of the sectarian subject matter. That was a separate exposure I was willing to accept.
2. Wagers are absurd if they are not followed through
When there is nothing really at stake, we risk becoming less inclined to reflect carefully before speaking. It's easier to fall back on initial impressions and bravado.
I remain convinced that one thing this forum requires less of is windbaggery. We need fewer buffoons who spout misinformation and ill‑considered views with absolute conviction. And who then double down when challenged, or slink off into the shadows and go silent, never acknowledging a mistake.
Hence, when people like me opine on relatively serious matters like attribution and authenticity, let them put their money where their mouths are.
If they are giving others the impression they know what they're talking about, then make it a little painful for them each time they get things wrong. There should be consequences. There should be accountability โ whether that be momentary embarrassment, a loss of standing, a public slap, or a financial hit.
With any luck, this will encourage a few others to think a bit harder and longer prior to posting. And to consider whether their positions should perhaps be tempered, more nuanced or qualified.
As far as I'm concerned, that can only be a good thing. Arrogant certitude is the enemy of civilised discourse.
[My bets were intended as well to get members to look closer at the Orange Order rat, weigh up the evidence, and reach their own conclusions about whether it was real.
In the same way I repeatedly nudge fellow collectors to "Buy with your eyes, not with your ears", authenticity should be judged more according to what we can see, rather than what other people assure us.
Everyone has the capacity to inform themselves and to offer evenhanded, considered opinions. It's just a case of putting in the time and effort. And for all the art enthusiasts here, I would argue that such an investment in time and effort is very much worth our while.]
3. Duality of rights and duties
I enjoyed your reference to free speech.
What it brought to mind was a 2006 debate at the University of Toronto's Hart House Debating Club, Be It Resolved: Freedom of Speech Includes the Freedom to Hate. See the second video in this post* of 2 May 2021.
Christopher Hitchens was a participant, arguing in favour of the motion.
Early on, Hitchens ambitiously tried to summarise the main ideas covered by John Milton in Areopagitica; Thomas Paine in The Age of Reason; and John Stuart Mill in On Liberty:
It's not just the right of the person who speaks to be heard, it is the right of everyone in the audience to listen and to hear.
And every time you silence somebody, you make yourself a prisoner of your own action, because you deny yourself the right to hear something.
In other words, your own right to hear and be exposed is as much involved in all these cases as the right of the other to voice his or her view.
The above notion of duality is very appealing to me.
In a similar manner, with any bet, dualities of duties and rights enter into play:
1. There is the duty of the bet loser to pay up, which complements the corresponding right of the winner to receive their winnings.
2. Conversely, however, there is also the duty of the bet winner to graciously accept their winnings, which complements the corresponding right of the loser to honour their debt.
Waiving the bets would rob me of my right to make good on my commitments. Such an act would be undermining, depriving me of the opportunity to stay true to my word.
Now, that would be unacceptable. And against the spirit of the agreements made with my gambling counterparties. Regardless of the well‑meaning intent, I would see this less as magnanimous than as a misguided, patronising gesture.
Integrity is meaningless unless embracing it occasionally leads us to discomfort.
We cannot for example say, "This person is honourable", unless we've actually witnessed them acting in a manner that is both principled and inconvenient or disadvantageous to them.
__________
So, annulling the bets?
Fuck that.
Keeping one's word is just normal. It is worth more than a lump of cash. And the moment that behaving normally becomes surprising, let alone deemed worthy of praise, is the very moment for us to realise that a societal/cultural shift is badly needed โ along with a recalibration of our expectations of one another.
My commitments to minibear and slevin have now been fulfilled. I am grateful to both for their engagement. For having stepped up to the plate.
And rest assured that, if the positions had been reversed and I had come out on top, out of principle I would have enforced the two debts owed to me. Without mercy.
To very-loosely paraphrase Geddy Lee*, "10 quid is 10 quid."
It shows courage of conviction to express your thoughts early on. Up until only recently the poll showed that the majority involved (in the poll at least) thought the rat was genuine. Yet only one person was brave enough to stake their position. As an incentive to free speech I believe the bet should be annulled. While appreciating the underlying sentiment, my own stance is the polar opposite. 1. The bets were fairBoth bets were entered into by the parties with open eyes. Nobody was deceived or misled. I, the loser on these occasions, initiated the bets. And the calculated 100‑to‑1 odds offered were an accurate reflection of how confident I was that the Orange Order rat was a Ban ksy. I didn't believe I'd lose. [To be clear, this belief wasn't down to blind hubris. It was based on the available evidence, with me trying to make some use of my eyes and brain.
Factored into my assessment were a variety of details (previously mentioned or referred to) pointing straight to Banksy.
Moreover, there were elements suggesting the piece was also unlikely to have been the creation of a mimic.
They included the theme of the artwork:
Copycat Banksys are for the most part innocuous, typically covering subjects that are lighthearted or relatively safe. It therefore came as a real surprise to me that anyone creating a faux Banksy would go near the hot potato of mocking participants of the Orange Marches. Along with "Down with the monarchy!", that is comparable to saying, "Unchain the Unicorn!". Or even "Reunify Ireland!" โ being the kind of thing that can potentially get somebody stabbed.
The elements indicating the Orange Order rat was perhaps not by Banksy were weighed up as well, but they weren't sufficient to tip the scale for me.
Such evidence included a certain lack of wit and clear message (at least for a standalone piece that wasn't part of a series of multiple works); facial expression similarities with a 2020 lockdown Tube rat; an atypical placement for the artist; the incoherence with how the trap was set off; and questions regarding the actual point of the trap (even if the rat had been interested in the newspaper used as bait, its hands were never free to make a grab for it in the first place).
Admittedly, my guard was slightly let down by far-less-credible-yet-still-decent fakes over the years, such as the 2012 rat in Taunton, Somerset. That piece was accompanied by bad freehand additions in red: the ladder and the cringeworthy text, "PAINT TO ESCAPE", in the most non‑Banksy of writing styles.]As soon as I made each bet, the necessary funds on my side were ring‑fenced. These bets were serious, not the hollow words of some flake. What I also (incorrectly) assumed is that, if I was going to lose, it would most likely be due to Ban ksy not laying claim to his own work by 28 August, possibly because of the sectarian subject matter. That was a separate exposure I was willing to accept. 2. Wagers are absurd if they are not followed throughWhen there is nothing really at stake, we risk becoming less inclined to reflect carefully before speaking. It's easier to fall back on initial impressions and bravado. I remain convinced that one thing this fo rum requires less of is windbaggery. We need fewer buffoons who spout misinformation and ill‑considered views with absolute conviction. And who then double down when challenged, or slink off into the shadows and go silent, never acknowledging a mistake. Hence, when people like me opine on relatively serious matters like attribution and authenticity, let them put their money where their mouths are. If they are giving others the impression they know what they're talking about, then make it a little painful for them each time they get things wrong. There should be consequences. There should be accountability โ whether that be momentary embarrassment, a loss of standing, a public slap, or a financial hit. With any luck, this will encourage a few others to think a bit harder and longer prior to posting. And to consider whether their positions should perhaps be tempered, more nuanced or qualified. As far as I'm concerned, that can only be a good thing. Arrogant certitude is the enemy of civilised discourse. [My bets were intended as well to get members to look closer at the Orange Order rat, weigh up the evidence, and reach their own conclusions about whether it was real.
In the same way I repeatedly nudge fellow collectors to "Buy with your eyes, not with your ears", authenticity should be judged more according to what we can see, rather than what other people assure us.
Everyone has the capacity to inform themselves and to offer evenhanded, considered opinions. It's just a case of putting in the time and effort. And for all the art enthusiasts here, I would argue that such an investment in time and effort is very much worth our while.]3. Duality of rights and dutiesI enjoyed your reference to free speech. What it brought to mind was a 2006 debate at the University of Tor onto's Hart House Debating Club, Be It Resolved: Freedom of Speech Includes the Freedom to Hate. See the second video in this post * of 2 May 2021. Christopher Hitchens was a participant, arguing in favour of the motion. Early on, Hitchens ambitiously tried to summarise the main ideas covered by John Milton in Areopagitica; Thomas Paine in The Age of Reason; and John Stuart Mill in On Liberty: It's not just the right of the person who speaks to be heard, it is the right of everyone in the audience to listen and to hear.
And every time you silence somebody, you make yourself a prisoner of your own action, because you deny yourself the right to hear something.
In other words, your own right to hear and be exposed is as much involved in all these cases as the right of the other to voice his or her view.The above notion of duality is very appealing to me. In a similar manner, with any bet, dualities of duties and rights enter into play: 1. There is the duty of the bet loser to pay up, which complements the corresponding right of the winner to receive their winnings. 2. Conversely, however, there is also the duty of the bet winner to graciously accept their winnings, which complements the corresponding right of the loser to honour their debt. Waiving the bets would rob me of my right to make good on my commitments. Such an act would be undermining, depriving me of the opportunity to stay true to my word. Now, that would be unacceptable. And against the spirit of the agreements made with my gambling counterparties. Regardless of the well‑meaning intent, I would see this less as magnanimous than as a misguided, patronising gesture. Integrity is meaningless unless embracing it occasionally leads us to discomfort.We cannot for example say, "This person is honourable", unless we've actually witnessed them acting in a manner that is both principled and inconvenient or disadvantageous to them. __________ So, annulling the bets? Fu ck that. Keeping one's word is just normal. It is worth more than a lump of cash. And the moment that behaving normally becomes surprising, let alone deemed worthy of praise, is the very moment for us to realise that a societal/cultural shift is badly needed โ along with a recalibration of our expectations of one another. My commitments to minibear and slevin have now been fulfilled. I am grateful to both for their engagement. For having stepped up to the plate. And rest assured that, if the positions had been reversed and I had come out on top, out of principle I would have enforced the two debts owed to me. Without mercy. To very-loosely paraphrase Geddy Lee*, "10 quid is 10 quid."
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met
Junior Member
Posts โข 2,688
Likes โข 6,320
June 2009
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Orange Order Rat - Fake or Real Banksy?, by met on Jun 26, 2023 18:58:05 GMT 1, You're clutching at straws man... There are three rather convincing reels.
Yes, you and Crime in the City are both correct.
Apologies โ My last post on this thread was prior to me having spotted the video evidence on the main Cut & Run thread.
Below is a copy-and-paste of what I've just added to the latter thread.
Thank you for posting, huddleforrest. Now this video evidence is both credible and convincing. I humbly accept I got it completely wrong here. And, frankly, I am also most impressed by the technical work of the two spoofers. Hats off to them. minibear and slevin, I shall be in touch very shortly.
You're clutching at straws man... There are three rather convincing reels. Yes, you and Crime in the City are both correct. Apologies โ My last post on this thread was prior to me having spotted the video evidence on the main Cut & Run thread. Below is a copy-and-paste of what I've just added to the latter thread. Thank you for posting, huddleforrest. Now this video evidence is both credible and convincing. I humbly accept I got it completely wrong here. And, frankly, I am also most impressed by the technical work of the two spoofers. Hats off to them. minibear and slevin, I shall be in touch very shortly.
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