lee3
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November 2009
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Banksy โข Girl With Red Balloon Print, by lee3 on Sept 14, 2016 4:09:10 GMT 1, Very true yet on the flip side, 56k last November is upwards of 64k now due to currency devaluation. There were a pair that sold last summer and autumn at $82,456 & $84,688 respectively at auction. I find it informative to watch these sales and there are 7 prints (a queue jumper c yw at christie's and a half dozen others including a turquoise kate at sotheby's) coming under the hammer in ~2 weeks. My sense, which could well be wrong, is that there has been a bit of a lift to people seeking out Banksy post brexit as there have been a few eye popping results at auction since that late June vote . The 7 upcoming prints will give some indication whether or not that continues. Then again, there are a pair of posters above suggesting they would let signed examples go at 85 which is quite telling. Either way, not meant to derail the for sale thread so best of luck in that pursuit. Great insight as always lee, but I am curious about your mention of the devalued pound vs the US dollar. Since the pound is arguably the default measure for banksy, it almost sounds as if his work is all up 10-15 percent in pound terms post brexit. But if that was the case, wouldn't it mean most buyers are using dollars, and that would be the default currency to value? does my question make sense? If most of the transactions were say Brits buying from Brits just to use an example, then the price of his works in pounds would stay the same. But if those works have indeed gone up10 or so percent in pound terms, does that mean most buyers are US based, as these values stayed the same in dollar terms? The usd is strong against pretty much everything, so wouldn't it have to be us buyers doing most of the buying to get the works to the same net usd price when the pound goes from 1.6 to 1.3? Thanks all for the kind words above, much appreciated. Dexter, your question makes perfect sense and my reply is that of a US collector with a strong bias for the artist. There is no doubt with your point that the pound has always been the standard for Banksy but his audience has been international for some time so when the pound is devalued significantly, it represents a theoretical opportunity for everyone (not just US collectors) whose day to day currency is anything but the pound. Which is not to sound crass given the underlying situation but merely speaking observationally and placing my personal feelings regarding that vote to the side for discussion.
I say theoretical opportunity above because it was my expectation that prices for most artists featured in the June sales, and the sales immediately following, would be a complete disaster as the world digested the shock. I expected withdrawn lots because sellers did not want to be compensated with devalued sterling and less participation from the British audience with lower overall winning bids coming mostly from overseas. Yet, in hindsight, I couldn't have been more wrong. The bidding for this artist, especially for prints, was borderline feverish with some jaw dropping results. The opportunity that I foresaw never arrived and instead the market seemed to react immediately by (depending on your view) raising prices in pounds significantly or mildly for the other competitive currencies. IOW, anyone buying in the past couple months has been paying a premium regardless of once's residency compared with prices of past. So, long winded way of saying I agree with your point that most are paying higher prices but I don't believe it's just US buyers. I know there are plenty of UK buyers who seem to be more active with this artist than ever before. A new normal if you will but hell if I can explain it so I'll just watch and try to draw conclusions in hindsight. And it does a disservice to leave out the fact that this artist barely strokes his market and exercises considerable restraint (far more than i could in his shoes) which I suspect draws more admirers to the artist and his work over time.
My apologies again to you Wisky and wish you a speedy sale. Also, apologies to anyone loathing the discussion of price in the absence of, or opposed to any discussion of the art itself. To that end, I think we've all drawn our own conclusions regarding GWB but I must say I don't comprehend the mystique for this composition over seemingly everything else. It's certainly both succinct and poignant yet commands a very steep premium to all of his other best works.
Very true yet on the flip side, 56k last November is upwards of 64k now due to currency devaluation. There were a pair that sold last summer and autumn at $82,456 & $84,688 respectively at auction. I find it informative to watch these sales and there are 7 prints (a queue jumper c yw at christie's and a half dozen others including a turquoise kate at sotheby's) coming under the hammer in ~2 weeks. My sense, which could well be wrong, is that there has been a bit of a lift to people seeking out Banksy post brexit as there have been a few eye popping results at auction since that late June vote . The 7 upcoming prints will give some indication whether or not that continues. Then again, there are a pair of posters above suggesting they would let signed examples go at 85 which is quite telling. Either way, not meant to derail the for sale thread so best of luck in that pursuit. Great insight as always lee, but I am curious about your mention of the devalued pound vs the US dollar. Since the pound is arguably the default measure for banksy, it almost sounds as if his work is all up 10-15 percent in pound terms post brexit. But if that was the case, wouldn't it mean most buyers are using dollars, and that would be the default currency to value? does my question make sense? If most of the transactions were say Brits buying from Brits just to use an example, then the price of his works in pounds would stay the same. But if those works have indeed gone up10 or so percent in pound terms, does that mean most buyers are US based, as these values stayed the same in dollar terms? The usd is strong against pretty much everything, so wouldn't it have to be us buyers doing most of the buying to get the works to the same net usd price when the pound goes from 1.6 to 1.3? Thanks all for the kind words above, much appreciated. Dexter, your question makes perfect sense and my reply is that of a US collector with a strong bias for the artist. There is no doubt with your point that the pound has always been the standard for Banksy but his audience has been international for some time so when the pound is devalued significantly, it represents a theoretical opportunity for everyone (not just US collectors) whose day to day currency is anything but the pound. Which is not to sound crass given the underlying situation but merely speaking observationally and placing my personal feelings regarding that vote to the side for discussion. I say theoretical opportunity above because it was my expectation that prices for most artists featured in the June sales, and the sales immediately following, would be a complete disaster as the world digested the shock. I expected withdrawn lots because sellers did not want to be compensated with devalued sterling and less participation from the British audience with lower overall winning bids coming mostly from overseas. Yet, in hindsight, I couldn't have been more wrong. The bidding for this artist, especially for prints, was borderline feverish with some jaw dropping results. The opportunity that I foresaw never arrived and instead the market seemed to react immediately by (depending on your view) raising prices in pounds significantly or mildly for the other competitive currencies. IOW, anyone buying in the past couple months has been paying a premium regardless of once's residency compared with prices of past. So, long winded way of saying I agree with your point that most are paying higher prices but I don't believe it's just US buyers. I know there are plenty of UK buyers who seem to be more active with this artist than ever before. A new normal if you will but hell if I can explain it so I'll just watch and try to draw conclusions in hindsight. And it does a disservice to leave out the fact that this artist barely strokes his market and exercises considerable restraint (far more than i could in his shoes) which I suspect draws more admirers to the artist and his work over time. My apologies again to you Wisky and wish you a speedy sale. Also, apologies to anyone loathing the discussion of price in the absence of, or opposed to any discussion of the art itself. To that end, I think we've all drawn our own conclusions regarding GWB but I must say I don't comprehend the mystique for this composition over seemingly everything else. It's certainly both succinct and poignant yet commands a very steep premium to all of his other best works.
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lee3
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November 2009
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Banksy โข Girl With Red Balloon Print, by lee3 on Sept 13, 2016 18:12:07 GMT 1, the last signed was 11/2015 by Bonham for 56k ?! Very true yet on the flip side, 56k last November is upwards of 64k now due to currency devaluation. There were a pair that sold last summer and autumn at $82,456 & $84,688 respectively at auction. I find it informative to watch these sales and there are 7 prints (a queue jumper c yw at christie's and a half dozen others including a turquoise kate at sotheby's) coming under the hammer in ~2 weeks. My sense, which could well be wrong, is that there has been a bit of a lift to people seeking out Banksy post brexit as there have been a few eye popping results at auction since that late June vote . The 7 upcoming prints will give some indication whether or not that continues. Then again, there are a pair of posters above suggesting they would let signed examples go at 85 which is quite telling. Either way, not meant to derail the for sale thread so best of luck in that pursuit.
the last signed was 11/2015 by Bonham for 56k ?! Very true yet on the flip side, 56k last November is upwards of 64k now due to currency devaluation. There were a pair that sold last summer and autumn at $82,456 & $84,688 respectively at auction. I find it informative to watch these sales and there are 7 prints (a queue jumper c yw at christie's and a half dozen others including a turquoise kate at sotheby's) coming under the hammer in ~2 weeks. My sense, which could well be wrong, is that there has been a bit of a lift to people seeking out Banksy post brexit as there have been a few eye popping results at auction since that late June vote . The 7 upcoming prints will give some indication whether or not that continues. Then again, there are a pair of posters above suggesting they would let signed examples go at 85 which is quite telling. Either way, not meant to derail the for sale thread so best of luck in that pursuit.
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lee3
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November 2009
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Christie's June 30th Banksy Original, by lee3 on Aug 28, 2016 17:53:58 GMT 1, A correction as the piece did sell: Banksy Title Many drink to forget Description Banksy (b. 1975) Many drink to forgetโฆ spray paint on wood 17 1/8 x 48in. (43.5 x 121.8cm.) Executed in 2005 This work is accompanied by a certificate of authenticity signed by the artist. Medium spray paint on wood Year of Work 2005 Size Height 17.1 in.; Width 48 in. / Height 43.5 cm.; Width 121.8 cm. Sale of Christie's London: Thursday, June 30, 2016 [Lot 00122] Post-War and Contemporary Art Day Auction Estimate 45,000 - 65,000 GBP (59,642 - 86,149 USD) Sold For 56,250 GBP Premium (74,552 USD) Provenance Santa's Ghetto, London. Private Collection (acquired from the above in 2005). Acquired from the above by the present owner in 2009. So your saying it sold recently for ยฃ56250 but is still listed with a min est of ยฃ45k by the same auction house ? Would definitely be a first ? When I go to the Christie's site and type Banksy it replies "upcoming lots 0, there are no upcoming lots for your search." There are no Banksy's contained in the private sales section of the site either. Further, when you click on past lots, it will show you that it sold:
www.christies.com/lotfinder/paintings/banksy-many-drink-to-forget-6011544-details.aspx?from=searchresults&intObjectID=6011544&sid=f1377428-d090-44e7-8c3b-fefc5d6f4883
A correction as the piece did sell: Banksy Title Many drink to forget Description Banksy (b. 1975) Many drink to forgetโฆ spray paint on wood 17 1/8 x 48in. (43.5 x 121.8cm.) Executed in 2005 This work is accompanied by a certificate of authenticity signed by the artist. Medium spray paint on wood Year of Work 2005 Size Height 17.1 in.; Width 48 in. / Height 43.5 cm.; Width 121.8 cm. Sale of Christie's London: Thursday, June 30, 2016 [Lot 00122] Post-War and Contemporary Art Day Auction Estimate 45,000 - 65,000 GBP (59,642 - 86,149 USD) Sold For 56,250 GBP Premium (74,552 USD) Provenance Santa's Ghetto, London. Private Collection (acquired from the above in 2005). Acquired from the above by the present owner in 2009. So your saying it sold recently for ยฃ56250 but is still listed with a min est of ยฃ45k by the same auction house ? Would definitely be a first ? When I go to the Christie's site and type Banksy it replies "upcoming lots 0, there are no upcoming lots for your search." There are no Banksy's contained in the private sales section of the site either. Further, when you click on past lots, it will show you that it sold: www.christies.com/lotfinder/paintings/banksy-many-drink-to-forget-6011544-details.aspx?from=searchresults&intObjectID=6011544&sid=f1377428-d090-44e7-8c3b-fefc5d6f4883
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lee3
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Christie's June 30th Banksy Original, by lee3 on Aug 28, 2016 2:13:33 GMT 1, Actually failed to sell on June 30th at Christie's with the same estimates. A correction as the piece did sell:
Banksy Title Many drink to forget Description Banksy (b. 1975) Many drink to forgetโฆ spray paint on wood 17 1/8 x 48in. (43.5 x 121.8cm.) Executed in 2005 This work is accompanied by a certificate of authenticity signed by the artist. Medium spray paint on wood Year of Work 2005 Size Height 17.1 in.; Width 48 in. / Height 43.5 cm.; Width 121.8 cm. Sale of Christie's London: Thursday, June 30, 2016 [Lot 00122] Post-War and Contemporary Art Day Auction Estimate 45,000 - 65,000 GBP (59,642 - 86,149 USD) Sold For 56,250 GBP Premium (74,552 USD) Provenance Santa's Ghetto, London. Private Collection (acquired from the above in 2005). Acquired from the above by the present owner in 2009.
Actually failed to sell on June 30th at Christie's with the same estimates. A correction as the piece did sell: Banksy Title Many drink to forget Description Banksy (b. 1975) Many drink to forgetโฆ spray paint on wood 17 1/8 x 48in. (43.5 x 121.8cm.) Executed in 2005 This work is accompanied by a certificate of authenticity signed by the artist. Medium spray paint on wood Year of Work 2005 Size Height 17.1 in.; Width 48 in. / Height 43.5 cm.; Width 121.8 cm. Sale of Christie's London: Thursday, June 30, 2016 [Lot 00122] Post-War and Contemporary Art Day Auction Estimate 45,000 - 65,000 GBP (59,642 - 86,149 USD) Sold For 56,250 GBP Premium (74,552 USD) Provenance Santa's Ghetto, London. Private Collection (acquired from the above in 2005). Acquired from the above by the present owner in 2009.
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lee3
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Art Auction Result Providers, by lee3 on Aug 25, 2016 16:05:36 GMT 1, Hi Mia, no there is nothing free that's any good. Sotheby's and Christie's generally do not show images of sold works (where the image is under copyright still) so if it's the text you're after then you're good, if you need to see the images you're pretty much out of luck. As people have said Artnet is the best but it's the most expensive. You'll be looking at a minimum of ยฃ500 a year and that would be for a handful of searches. My advice go with art price. $150 annually is cheap for the product they offer. Artnet has increased but not by that much as I've been using them for ~15 years now. Looking at my billing history, the past two years have been billed at $398 a year for more searches than I could possibly use (a few hundred) under the Expert level of the price database. There is a more expensive option titled Appraiser but I have no idea how much that costs nor how many more searches that buys you.
Hi Mia, no there is nothing free that's any good. Sotheby's and Christie's generally do not show images of sold works (where the image is under copyright still) so if it's the text you're after then you're good, if you need to see the images you're pretty much out of luck. As people have said Artnet is the best but it's the most expensive. You'll be looking at a minimum of ยฃ500 a year and that would be for a handful of searches. My advice go with art price. $150 annually is cheap for the product they offer. Artnet has increased but not by that much as I've been using them for ~15 years now. Looking at my billing history, the past two years have been billed at $398 a year for more searches than I could possibly use (a few hundred) under the Expert level of the price database. There is a more expensive option titled Appraiser but I have no idea how much that costs nor how many more searches that buys you.
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lee3
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Stanley Donwood ๐ฌ๐ง Dan Rickwood โข Radiohead โข Thom Yorke , by lee3 on Aug 21, 2016 0:34:15 GMT 1, JB, was that os g. from the prism show? Nice one regardless. Good memory, yes this was displayed at Prism in LA. That space has been vacant for some time which I suppose is understandable given the $1M + hurdle in rent each year: www.loopnet.com/Listing/19748761/8746-W-Sunset-Boulevard-West-Hollywood-CA/
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lee3
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Stanley Donwood ๐ฌ๐ง Dan Rickwood โข Radiohead โข Thom Yorke , by lee3 on Aug 19, 2016 16:31:50 GMT 1, JB, was that os g. from the prism show? Nice one regardless.
I'm sure we can all look rear view and recall something we should have bought, nature of the beast I suppose. I'll never have the means or the space so certainly not something I've missed out on but my grail would be a large installation from the likes of olafur eliasson or richard serra. I'm most drawn to work that throws my senses for a spin whether it's perceived motion in mondrian, colors beating like a heart in rothko or the way eliasson and serra installations influence the way gravity feels on my shoulders and I in turn adjust my posture as I walk among them. Kids are naturally drawn to those too which enhances my enjoyment from the standpoint that even the young sense the power despite a difficulty conveying it with words. But their smiles say it all. Anyway, hopefully we're all fortunate enough to grab a grail and enjoy it on our walls for a spell.
JB, was that os g. from the prism show? Nice one regardless.
I'm sure we can all look rear view and recall something we should have bought, nature of the beast I suppose. I'll never have the means or the space so certainly not something I've missed out on but my grail would be a large installation from the likes of olafur eliasson or richard serra. I'm most drawn to work that throws my senses for a spin whether it's perceived motion in mondrian, colors beating like a heart in rothko or the way eliasson and serra installations influence the way gravity feels on my shoulders and I in turn adjust my posture as I walk among them. Kids are naturally drawn to those too which enhances my enjoyment from the standpoint that even the young sense the power despite a difficulty conveying it with words. But their smiles say it all. Anyway, hopefully we're all fortunate enough to grab a grail and enjoy it on our walls for a spell.
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lee3
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Stanley Donwood ๐ฌ๐ง Dan Rickwood โข Radiohead โข Thom Yorke , by lee3 on Aug 16, 2016 16:53:48 GMT 1, In the last 2 years I have become obsessed with this guys work but again the ship appears to be sailing into the horizon. That last show of his was his best body of work in the 20 years since the big red series for my eyes.
In the last 2 years I have become obsessed with this guys work but again the ship appears to be sailing into the horizon. That last show of his was his best body of work in the 20 years since the big red series for my eyes.
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lee3
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November 2009
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lee3
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November 2009
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Banksy pieces on display at MOCO in Amsterdam, by lee3 on Jul 5, 2016 21:44:42 GMT 1, Ben:
There is loads of discussion spanning the past few years at the various banksy sites about that gallery and their pricing structure. I vividly recall when they purchased their grey barcode at auction for a song and within hours listed it for sale on artnet for 3X the price paid which is atypical. They've pushed that piece at every turn, and even at an auction since at prices that make the current market blush. I should note that I've never done business with them nor do I have an axe to grind but you asked and I'm just stating that I tend to be dismissive of galleries and people who operate that way which is not to suggest it's uncommon. As for the moco affiliation, that was just news to me which refelcts that I'm not paying particular attention.
Still, buying and/or accepting and displaying that unsanctioned heart boy street piece in the context of the museum circuit reflects to my eyes a certain level of ignorance at best. The art itself is clearly authentic so fine to enjoy it (nice photos too) but I would caution potential buyers to use the search function at the very least.
Ben:
There is loads of discussion spanning the past few years at the various banksy sites about that gallery and their pricing structure. I vividly recall when they purchased their grey barcode at auction for a song and within hours listed it for sale on artnet for 3X the price paid which is atypical. They've pushed that piece at every turn, and even at an auction since at prices that make the current market blush. I should note that I've never done business with them nor do I have an axe to grind but you asked and I'm just stating that I tend to be dismissive of galleries and people who operate that way which is not to suggest it's uncommon. As for the moco affiliation, that was just news to me which refelcts that I'm not paying particular attention.
Still, buying and/or accepting and displaying that unsanctioned heart boy street piece in the context of the museum circuit reflects to my eyes a certain level of ignorance at best. The art itself is clearly authentic so fine to enjoy it (nice photos too) but I would caution potential buyers to use the search function at the very least.
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lee3
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Banksy pieces on display at MOCO in Amsterdam, by lee3 on Jul 5, 2016 16:11:41 GMT 1, I've emailed Moco, but again if anybody has any more information, that would be fantastic. Cheers. The only information I can add is that you have at least 3 to chase down. The one at lionel was the hmv promo piece from the exit thru release:
There is also at least one other similar sized piece that is at the unsanctioned Rome show right now(my eyes prefer this one as I prefer these tags and the hood) :
And there is the mega piece that was featured at art in the streets in LA a few years ago:
Good luck and a bit of caution as Lionel seems to be a phishing operation disguised as a gallery. I didn't realize they owned or operated the Moco museum as others above mentioned. But, that now makes perfect sense since that museum installed a street piece (Heart boy) in their garden a couple months ago. When I read about a street piece being purchased and displayed at a museum, all I could wonder is what is wrong with that museum? Few, if any, other museums in the world would install such a piece for obvious reasons. Glad to finally connect the dots.
I've emailed Moco, but again if anybody has any more information, that would be fantastic. Cheers. The only information I can add is that you have at least 3 to chase down. The one at lionel was the hmv promo piece from the exit thru release: There is also at least one other similar sized piece that is at the unsanctioned Rome show right now(my eyes prefer this one as I prefer these tags and the hood) : And there is the mega piece that was featured at art in the streets in LA a few years ago: Good luck and a bit of caution as Lionel seems to be a phishing operation disguised as a gallery. I didn't realize they owned or operated the Moco museum as others above mentioned. But, that now makes perfect sense since that museum installed a street piece (Heart boy) in their garden a couple months ago. When I read about a street piece being purchased and displayed at a museum, all I could wonder is what is wrong with that museum? Few, if any, other museums in the world would install such a piece for obvious reasons. Glad to finally connect the dots.
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lee3
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Banksy's at Bonhams Auction June 29th , by lee3 on Jun 30, 2016 17:28:38 GMT 1, How strange. Its almost been completely painted over. He tends to do that with a lot of the work post exhibition. Always the perfectionist
How strange. Its almost been completely painted over. He tends to do that with a lot of the work post exhibition. Always the perfectionist
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lee3
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Banksy's at Bonhams Auction June 29th , by lee3 on Jun 29, 2016 17:57:39 GMT 1, Strong result for the barcode, looked like a lovely piece I honestly thought it would do more which is not to sound crass. I figured it would do ~$325k based on other recent results given those images and scale. But, the bidding was very strange for something in its price range. I think it started at 40, 50, 60 then instead of 70 someone doubled the offer to 120 and it appeared to paralyze the salesroom as that type of action usually takes place on million dollar lots as opposed to this price range. Then nothing for the better part of a minute which I suppose is the point of making a move like that.
Ultimately the move did not work this time around as someone nudged it to 130 and that was that but I do wonder if it muted bidding. I found it curious that whomever doubled the bid didn't do any further bidding either. My hunch is that with the benefit of hindsight this particular buyer will have done very well for themselves. I didn't have any expectations whatsoever for the van as it's simply too big and awkward for the vast majority of collectors.
Strong result for the barcode, looked like a lovely piece I honestly thought it would do more which is not to sound crass. I figured it would do ~$325k based on other recent results given those images and scale. But, the bidding was very strange for something in its price range. I think it started at 40, 50, 60 then instead of 70 someone doubled the offer to 120 and it appeared to paralyze the salesroom as that type of action usually takes place on million dollar lots as opposed to this price range. Then nothing for the better part of a minute which I suppose is the point of making a move like that. Ultimately the move did not work this time around as someone nudged it to 130 and that was that but I do wonder if it muted bidding. I found it curious that whomever doubled the bid didn't do any further bidding either. My hunch is that with the benefit of hindsight this particular buyer will have done very well for themselves. I didn't have any expectations whatsoever for the van as it's simply too big and awkward for the vast majority of collectors.
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lee3
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The UK's EU Referendum - 23rd June 2016., by lee3 on Jun 24, 2016 16:35:36 GMT 1, Young generation in the UK - we won't forget you! Stay strong in the years to come! HOW AGES VOTED (YouGov poll) 18-24: 75% Remain 25-49: 56% Remain 50-64: 44% Remain 65+: 39% Remain Thanks for posting this. I've always been a stern believer in the adage that with age comes wisdom. I don't know what to make of that at the moment. My knee jerk is that perhaps I should question that proverb? And on the other hand I have to wonder just what I am missing that the "elderly" appear to see decisively?
To Wear's point regarding art above, my hunch is that it's a very short term reaction. Anyone that bought modern art or prints this week in London is rather happy. Conversely those sellers are not but there is nothing they can do. I would also expect to see a significant increase in withdrawn lots from next week's London contemporary sales. Apart from that, I can't see too many other ripples but I could well be shortsighted.
Young generation in the UK - we won't forget you! Stay strong in the years to come! HOW AGES VOTED (YouGov poll) 18-24: 75% Remain 25-49: 56% Remain 50-64: 44% Remain 65+: 39% Remain Thanks for posting this. I've always been a stern believer in the adage that with age comes wisdom. I don't know what to make of that at the moment. My knee jerk is that perhaps I should question that proverb? And on the other hand I have to wonder just what I am missing that the "elderly" appear to see decisively? To Wear's point regarding art above, my hunch is that it's a very short term reaction. Anyone that bought modern art or prints this week in London is rather happy. Conversely those sellers are not but there is nothing they can do. I would also expect to see a significant increase in withdrawn lots from next week's London contemporary sales. Apart from that, I can't see too many other ripples but I could well be shortsighted.
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lee3
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Bonhams 22nd June Prints & Multiples, by lee3 on Jun 22, 2016 19:05:23 GMT 1, Excluding the fees does not show what was actually paid for the pieces so a bit deceptive. Should you not also show the prices achieved by the sellers (Hammer minus Seller Premiums and any other fees)? Otherwise that can be deceptive, as well. It's a fairly accepted standard to always report with premium. You know that buyers always paid a little (5%) to a lot (15%) more depending on where they live than the price with premium. You can also safely assume that sellers receive about 2/3s of the reported price with premium IF they paid full sellers fees. Given the demand for this artist in particular, most smart sellers are going to pay reduced sellers fees.
Excluding the fees does not show what was actually paid for the pieces so a bit deceptive. Should you not also show the prices achieved by the sellers (Hammer minus Seller Premiums and any other fees)? Otherwise that can be deceptive, as well. It's a fairly accepted standard to always report with premium. You know that buyers always paid a little (5%) to a lot (15%) more depending on where they live than the price with premium. You can also safely assume that sellers receive about 2/3s of the reported price with premium IF they paid full sellers fees. Given the demand for this artist in particular, most smart sellers are going to pay reduced sellers fees.
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lee3
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Phillips Art Auctions โข New York, Hong Kong & London, by lee3 on Jun 18, 2016 19:51:45 GMT 1, Thank you for sharing. I'm no expert, but these prices on the Banksys are pretty low right? Seem to be in line with what people are asking on here. To be fair, those were hammer prices reported above. Sellers would have received 90 to 100% of those reported prices depending on the deals they made with the house. The buyers paid another 25% in premium on top of those prices to the house then get shipping and any additional taxes.
Thank you for sharing. I'm no expert, but these prices on the Banksys are pretty low right? Seem to be in line with what people are asking on here. To be fair, those were hammer prices reported above. Sellers would have received 90 to 100% of those reported prices depending on the deals they made with the house. The buyers paid another 25% in premium on top of those prices to the house then get shipping and any additional taxes.
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lee3
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Show us your HIFI System, by lee3 on Jun 17, 2016 18:04:17 GMT 1, Thanks, the rat is from the exit thru campaign in 2010 when he went around north america painting the streets in promotion of the film. A hurried version of it appeared in chicago I think though it looked unfinished as though he had to split. It was one of the 3 or 4 time out covers at the time.
Thanks, the rat is from the exit thru campaign in 2010 when he went around north america painting the streets in promotion of the film. A hurried version of it appeared in chicago I think though it looked unfinished as though he had to split. It was one of the 3 or 4 time out covers at the time.
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lee3
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Show us your HIFI System, by lee3 on Jun 17, 2016 17:05:55 GMT 1, I started down the audiophile path nearly 25 years ago. I've found that I'm most pleased with my stereos when I'm not swapping out gear and this version of my stereo has remained intact for nearly 2.5 years. It makes sense that those of us who are passionate about the visual arts are naturally drawn to arts of all kinds and live music might be my favorite of them all. Definitely overkill for most but a labor of love.
I started down the audiophile path nearly 25 years ago. I've found that I'm most pleased with my stereos when I'm not swapping out gear and this version of my stereo has remained intact for nearly 2.5 years. It makes sense that those of us who are passionate about the visual arts are naturally drawn to arts of all kinds and live music might be my favorite of them all. Definitely overkill for most but a labor of love.
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lee3
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America and guns.........again !!!, by lee3 on Jun 13, 2016 18:53:36 GMT 1,
Thanks for posting that. That's fascinating context and data that I've frankly never seen. I've just always presumed we (US) were sky high death rates due to sky high gun ownership but those numbers do put it in a different shade of light. Perhaps I suffer from mainstream press fatigue but it does present a reasoned other side of the coin that I have never considered. I still hope we can do something about the ability of our citizens to access semi automatic weapons as the risk to the populace at large clearly outweighs any potential benefit (is there even one?) despite the context of data at that link.
Thanks for posting that. That's fascinating context and data that I've frankly never seen. I've just always presumed we (US) were sky high death rates due to sky high gun ownership but those numbers do put it in a different shade of light. Perhaps I suffer from mainstream press fatigue but it does present a reasoned other side of the coin that I have never considered. I still hope we can do something about the ability of our citizens to access semi automatic weapons as the risk to the populace at large clearly outweighs any potential benefit (is there even one?) despite the context of data at that link.
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lee3
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Banksy's at Bonhams Auction June 29th , by lee3 on Jun 9, 2016 16:18:21 GMT 1, Size and medium of that van rules out most collectors from the go but i guess for someone with a compound recreating a dismlandesque backyard, it might work. I've always been a sucker for barcode; here is that canvas hung in '02 at urban discipline. That heavy weaponry next to it is hypnotic :
Size and medium of that van rules out most collectors from the go but i guess for someone with a compound recreating a dismlandesque backyard, it might work. I've always been a sucker for barcode; here is that canvas hung in '02 at urban discipline. That heavy weaponry next to it is hypnotic :
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lee3
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Banksy at Bridge Farm Primary School, by lee3 on Jun 7, 2016 16:39:59 GMT 1, I adore the painting, note and gesture. Very cool move and love the added humor of messing about with a school like that- that's hilarious to me. Unlike many of the comments, my boys were not innocent 5 years olds, maybe the older one was but the younger one was an ass at that age. Self centered, manipulative whiner as I recall. Thankfully they change like chameleons and he's a pretty good dude at the moment but a dash of reality or better still a a brief run in with a flaming tire might have toughened him up and done some good.
None of those kids are going to start playing with flaming tires, but they might start asking moms and dads some art related questions. The local paint supply stores should benefit handsomely too. He's always good for a laugh which is a uncommon in the art world.
I adore the painting, note and gesture. Very cool move and love the added humor of messing about with a school like that- that's hilarious to me. Unlike many of the comments, my boys were not innocent 5 years olds, maybe the older one was but the younger one was an ass at that age. Self centered, manipulative whiner as I recall. Thankfully they change like chameleons and he's a pretty good dude at the moment but a dash of reality or better still a a brief run in with a flaming tire might have toughened him up and done some good.
None of those kids are going to start playing with flaming tires, but they might start asking moms and dads some art related questions. The local paint supply stores should benefit handsomely too. He's always good for a laugh which is a uncommon in the art world.
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lee3
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The Art of Banksy - By Laz June 18 - Sept 30th, by lee3 on May 29, 2016 0:24:01 GMT 1, If I try to place *myself* in the mindset of the artist, I have to believe I'd get really sick of everyone riding coattails constantly anymore. It seems like a competition at this point for every secondary dealer to try to amass more than the last guy in whatever major city is next on the list. How many unsanctioned shows are on view at this very moment around the world, a handful at least?
If I try to place *myself* in the mindset of the artist, I have to believe I'd get really sick of everyone riding coattails constantly anymore. It seems like a competition at this point for every secondary dealer to try to amass more than the last guy in whatever major city is next on the list. How many unsanctioned shows are on view at this very moment around the world, a handful at least?
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lee3
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New Os Gรชmeos print, by lee3 on May 19, 2016 3:10:07 GMT 1, We'll just have to agree to disagree on this one.
"That's fine if you don't assign a monetary value to your work, but to me, that is the difference between a professional and an amateur"
Van Gogh, Vermeer, Monet, Gauguin..never sold, died in poverty. Amateurs one and all?. I think this indoctrinated way of seeing the world through economics is the biggest challenge of our age, and should be the last thing considered when making or viewing art, listening to music, watching a play or reading a novel. Hey bud, hope you're well. Your point is taken but worth noting that Monet was a very wealthy man in his lifetime. His art sold well, he was an adept stock investor and his home and gardens about an hour outside of Paris are quite special. He even micromanaged the small army of gardeners to set up each parcel for his paintings. Quite something to see if you ever have the opportunity.
I like your comment about the view through economics. It's makes you think but even for the diehard art lovers (and i count myself among them), it gets really tough to ignore that phenomenon. Take the enormous untitled Basquiat that sold last week for ~$54 million and yes this is an extreme example but it's one that has taken place during many of our lifetimes.
It previously sold just a dozen years ago for ~$4.5 million and consider further that it sold in '82 for almost certainly less than $10k (probably less than 5) and the artist received a fraction of that at the time. That means that Adam Lindemann who stuck his neck out 12 years ago to overpay for that painting to the laugher of then skeptics made exponentially more holding that painting than the artist did in his entire career. Their is risk/reward to seemingly everything these days but facts like that jump out at any observer and in many cases can be as shocking to some as the art itself. You certainly didn't need to be rich to buy it 40 years ago, but you do now. Because of stories like that I hold no animosity towards any artist/(s) trying to maximize their share on the front end. But we also have a voice in that purchasing decision too which is obvious given the length of this thread.
Congrats to those that picked up the print.
We'll just have to agree to disagree on this one.
"That's fine if you don't assign a monetary value to your work, but to me, that is the difference between a professional and an amateur"
Van Gogh, Vermeer, Monet, Gauguin..never sold, died in poverty. Amateurs one and all?. I think this indoctrinated way of seeing the world through economics is the biggest challenge of our age, and should be the last thing considered when making or viewing art, listening to music, watching a play or reading a novel. Hey bud, hope you're well. Your point is taken but worth noting that Monet was a very wealthy man in his lifetime. His art sold well, he was an adept stock investor and his home and gardens about an hour outside of Paris are quite special. He even micromanaged the small army of gardeners to set up each parcel for his paintings. Quite something to see if you ever have the opportunity. I like your comment about the view through economics. It's makes you think but even for the diehard art lovers (and i count myself among them), it gets really tough to ignore that phenomenon. Take the enormous untitled Basquiat that sold last week for ~$54 million and yes this is an extreme example but it's one that has taken place during many of our lifetimes. It previously sold just a dozen years ago for ~$4.5 million and consider further that it sold in '82 for almost certainly less than $10k (probably less than 5) and the artist received a fraction of that at the time. That means that Adam Lindemann who stuck his neck out 12 years ago to overpay for that painting to the laugher of then skeptics made exponentially more holding that painting than the artist did in his entire career. Their is risk/reward to seemingly everything these days but facts like that jump out at any observer and in many cases can be as shocking to some as the art itself. You certainly didn't need to be rich to buy it 40 years ago, but you do now. Because of stories like that I hold no animosity towards any artist/(s) trying to maximize their share on the front end. But we also have a voice in that purchasing decision too which is obvious given the length of this thread. Congrats to those that picked up the print.
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lee3
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Is it just me..., by lee3 on May 4, 2016 19:36:37 GMT 1, If that's why you collect art, then so be it. Certainly not trying to be argumentative but the whole thread struck me as silly or just rather reducing the hobby to a pursuit of profit.
If that's why you collect art, then so be it. Certainly not trying to be argumentative but the whole thread struck me as silly or just rather reducing the hobby to a pursuit of profit.
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lee3
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Is it just me..., by lee3 on May 4, 2016 17:03:54 GMT 1, If coins, dolls or pokemon cards stir an emotional response in your soul and tempt you daily to stare, relax and contemplate their meaning then by all means equate them and prioritize accordingly. But, even the unenthusiastic among us stroll into a museum from time to time and see something that inspires them or wonder what the work symbolizes in a manner that the other suggestions can not. Each of those pursuits has a place but to compare the visual arts where the best among us funnel their emotion and intelligence in a skilled manner with something as silly/moronic as the Franklin mint is missing the forest through the trees.
If coins, dolls or pokemon cards stir an emotional response in your soul and tempt you daily to stare, relax and contemplate their meaning then by all means equate them and prioritize accordingly. But, even the unenthusiastic among us stroll into a museum from time to time and see something that inspires them or wonder what the work symbolizes in a manner that the other suggestions can not. Each of those pursuits has a place but to compare the visual arts where the best among us funnel their emotion and intelligence in a skilled manner with something as silly/moronic as the Franklin mint is missing the forest through the trees.
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lee3
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Framers in SAN FRANCISCO ๐บ๐ฒ Who do you Recommend?, by lee3 on Apr 22, 2016 1:50:35 GMT 1, I've used Tom at Dimitroff's frame shop (just across the bridge in Tiburon) for the better part of 20 years now. He's blessed with an eye for his craft and his work is second to none. Great guy to deal with too, highly recommended.
I've used Tom at Dimitroff's frame shop (just across the bridge in Tiburon) for the better part of 20 years now. He's blessed with an eye for his craft and his work is second to none. Great guy to deal with too, highly recommended.
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lee3
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Paddle8 Auctions ๐บ๐ฒ BANKRUPT , by lee3 on Apr 19, 2016 16:28:38 GMT 1, Did they miss a zero off those George Condo prices? Most of the late 80s work by him does not command the large prices we associate with him today. Much of the work from that period is seen as derivative (many still dismiss him to this day for that reason) and has always sold for a fraction of work from the big red period (roughly a decade later) through today. This piece in particular looks heavily borrowed from picasso and matisse as did much of the work back then. Fwiw, this one last sold at sotheby's in march of '13 for $35k:
George Condo Title Untitled Description signed and dated 87-12 oil on canvas Medium oil on canvas Year of Work 1987 Size Height 48 in.; Width 48 in. / Height 121.9 cm.; Width 121.9 cm. Misc. Signed Sale of Sotheby's New York: Thursday, March 7, 2013 [Lot 00162] Contemporary Art Estimate 25,000 - 35,000 USD Sold For 35,000 USD Premium Provenance The Pace Gallery, New York Acquired by the present owner from the above
Did they miss a zero off those George Condo prices? Most of the late 80s work by him does not command the large prices we associate with him today. Much of the work from that period is seen as derivative (many still dismiss him to this day for that reason) and has always sold for a fraction of work from the big red period (roughly a decade later) through today. This piece in particular looks heavily borrowed from picasso and matisse as did much of the work back then. Fwiw, this one last sold at sotheby's in march of '13 for $35k: George Condo Title Untitled Description signed and dated 87-12 oil on canvas Medium oil on canvas Year of Work 1987 Size Height 48 in.; Width 48 in. / Height 121.9 cm.; Width 121.9 cm. Misc. Signed Sale of Sotheby's New York: Thursday, March 7, 2013 [Lot 00162] Contemporary Art Estimate 25,000 - 35,000 USD Sold For 35,000 USD Premium Provenance The Pace Gallery, New York Acquired by the present owner from the above
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lee3
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Sotheby's Contemporary Curated - 15.03.2016, by lee3 on Apr 11, 2016 16:39:50 GMT 1, Tuft, sorry, I didn't intend for that comment regarding the retrospectives to be a case of homage to anything apart from publicity and cash.
Tuft, sorry, I didn't intend for that comment regarding the retrospectives to be a case of homage to anything apart from publicity and cash.
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lee3
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Sotheby's Contemporary Curated - 15.03.2016, by lee3 on Apr 11, 2016 16:11:05 GMT 1, >>>It's a classic case of an artist believing they are solely responsible for their own success. <<<
One way to read into it. Another possibility is that the artist was sick of the games their dealer was playing with their (and others) careers and moved on. Regardless, the past now although one side of the relationship seems to keep hosting retrospectives for their divorcee which is odd.
>>>It's a classic case of an artist believing they are solely responsible for their own success. <<<
One way to read into it. Another possibility is that the artist was sick of the games their dealer was playing with their (and others) careers and moved on. Regardless, the past now although one side of the relationship seems to keep hosting retrospectives for their divorcee which is odd.
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lee3
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Sotheby's Contemporary Curated - 15.03.2016, by lee3 on Mar 23, 2016 17:22:21 GMT 1, It failed to sell which was somewhat surprising. I spoke with a sotheby's representative at the Laz show in Hong Kong on Tuesday night who confirmed it was still available. (...) available at what price (if you asked) ? Typically, the houses have 30 days post sale to illicit bids and sell at the reserve (which can be no higher than the low estimate (50 in this case which is ~62.5 with fees)). Often the reserve is lower than the low estimate by consignors just to generate a sale. I don't bid much at auction but I have been involved in instances previously where unsold works had more than one suitor post sale. In both cases, those works ended up selling for middle of the estimate range (not including premium) despite having been unsold at auction.
Regardless, this particular painting is no longer available (per phone a moment ago) so someone picked it post sale.
It failed to sell which was somewhat surprising. I spoke with a sotheby's representative at the Laz show in Hong Kong on Tuesday night who confirmed it was still available. (...) available at what price (if you asked) ? Typically, the houses have 30 days post sale to illicit bids and sell at the reserve (which can be no higher than the low estimate (50 in this case which is ~62.5 with fees)). Often the reserve is lower than the low estimate by consignors just to generate a sale. I don't bid much at auction but I have been involved in instances previously where unsold works had more than one suitor post sale. In both cases, those works ended up selling for middle of the estimate range (not including premium) despite having been unsold at auction. Regardless, this particular painting is no longer available (per phone a moment ago) so someone picked it post sale.
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