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Banksy Investment - Signed vs Unsigned?, by Brushstrokes 75 on Dec 7, 2017 23:15:50 GMT 1, Alright, i'll give my 2 cents (as an art professional).
This is regardless of Banksy per se.
In terms of valuation and future increase in value, it will in 99% grow as such (apart from certain outliers) : - Original work - Signed print - Unsigned Print
Original works with always gain more value over time. I'll give you an example :
I kow of a small nara painting that was purchased in 99, it was bought directly through the gallery for about $10k. Price of this painting now (and sold) $1 million. At the same time, the prints were probably a few hundred bucks.
There is an unsigned print (ed of 500) that was released in 08 for $500 (maybe $800) I think which used to sell now around $7/8k.
Afterwards, there are obviously more factors such as size (the bigger the better) / the edition size (unique, small edition vs bigger one), year (early is not always better and late is not always better either, there are sweet spots) and obviously the subject (gwrb vs toxic mary for instance or even a cwsb). [the attractivity of the subject can also evolve other time]
And honestly this is a pretty standard thing around for 99% of the market.
So if you're thinking in terms of investment, it's better to go original first, then signed limited, then unsigned/larger edition.
An interesting thought and just my opinion (i mentionned it a few times before) :
[Disclaimer I do not own any work by Mr Bs anymore. I sold everything before the price hike (and no I don't have sour grapes because of it)]
you usually as well have a clear pretty important median price multipler marks between all classes of art (obviously taking away the outliers poor canvas vs best print etc). The only "niche" I don't really see that applied (in terms of percentage mark and relativity) is street art especially Mr B.
As much as his prints value multiplied exponentially, his OGs didn't have the same multiplier. I remember paranoid ed of 30 used to sell for around 20k when most signed were 3.5. I might be wrong but not sure that they sell now for 250k (probably around 80/100?). This usually works the other way around. In traditional art market, apart from outliers, you would have prices more like (pure speculation and just in terms of ratio) signed prints from 3.5k then to 8/12k now , canvas 25k then to 100/130k (maybe even more).
I m making up prices to illustrate as i haven't really followed banksy's market closely to pull out accurate data.
Most unsigned sell for 6 to 14k gbp (apart from outliers like kate or gwrb) Signed prints from 20k to 35k originals 60k to 300k (i'm also taking out massive outliers here)
If you take like nara (to stay contemporary) for example you re gonna have : unsigned 3k- 7k signed 8k to 16k drawing 50k to 150k paintings (right now probably) 400k-1.5m
If you look in terms of ratio it's way more spaced out. Afterwards, don't come out at me as I just said I didn't take accurate data (but I could do that though)
So technically, at of now, his print are ever overvalued or his canvases undervalued, depending on the way you look at it. Not in term of their current actual price but related to each other around the different art classes.
Obviously, all is relative and there are a lot of parameters.
Alright, i'll give my 2 cents (as an art professional).
This is regardless of Banksy per se.
In terms of valuation and future increase in value, it will in 99% grow as such (apart from certain outliers) : - Original work - Signed print - Unsigned Print
Original works with always gain more value over time. I'll give you an example :
I kow of a small nara painting that was purchased in 99, it was bought directly through the gallery for about $10k. Price of this painting now (and sold) $1 million. At the same time, the prints were probably a few hundred bucks.
There is an unsigned print (ed of 500) that was released in 08 for $500 (maybe $800) I think which used to sell now around $7/8k.
Afterwards, there are obviously more factors such as size (the bigger the better) / the edition size (unique, small edition vs bigger one), year (early is not always better and late is not always better either, there are sweet spots) and obviously the subject (gwrb vs toxic mary for instance or even a cwsb). [the attractivity of the subject can also evolve other time]
And honestly this is a pretty standard thing around for 99% of the market.
So if you're thinking in terms of investment, it's better to go original first, then signed limited, then unsigned/larger edition.
An interesting thought and just my opinion (i mentionned it a few times before) :
[Disclaimer I do not own any work by Mr Bs anymore. I sold everything before the price hike (and no I don't have sour grapes because of it)]
you usually as well have a clear pretty important median price multipler marks between all classes of art (obviously taking away the outliers poor canvas vs best print etc). The only "niche" I don't really see that applied (in terms of percentage mark and relativity) is street art especially Mr B.
As much as his prints value multiplied exponentially, his OGs didn't have the same multiplier. I remember paranoid ed of 30 used to sell for around 20k when most signed were 3.5. I might be wrong but not sure that they sell now for 250k (probably around 80/100?). This usually works the other way around. In traditional art market, apart from outliers, you would have prices more like (pure speculation and just in terms of ratio) signed prints from 3.5k then to 8/12k now , canvas 25k then to 100/130k (maybe even more).
I m making up prices to illustrate as i haven't really followed banksy's market closely to pull out accurate data.
Most unsigned sell for 6 to 14k gbp (apart from outliers like kate or gwrb) Signed prints from 20k to 35k originals 60k to 300k (i'm also taking out massive outliers here)
If you take like nara (to stay contemporary) for example you re gonna have : unsigned 3k- 7k signed 8k to 16k drawing 50k to 150k paintings (right now probably) 400k-1.5m
If you look in terms of ratio it's way more spaced out. Afterwards, don't come out at me as I just said I didn't take accurate data (but I could do that though)
So technically, at of now, his print are ever overvalued or his canvases undervalued, depending on the way you look at it. Not in term of their current actual price but related to each other around the different art classes.
Obviously, all is relative and there are a lot of parameters.
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bits for sale, by Brushstrokes 75 on Dec 7, 2017 5:51:50 GMT 1, Dec 6, 2017 22:26:36 GMT 1 everyoneowes said: brushstrokes75 Avatar Dec 6, 2017 22:10:05 GMT 1 brushstrokes75 said: My aunt also wants to sell a koons puppy vase 1998 (sheโs moving) (iโm on my Phone so canโt post picture) www.christies.com/lotfinder/sculptures-statues-figures/jeff-koons-puppy-5871863-details.aspx(Just for details and picture purposes for now) Brilliant! What a collection. Don't tell me..... your younger sister is considering letting go of a couple of Hirst spots *both dedicated to your mum, who, coincidentally, has a Bacon triptych she's looking to offload, whilst your cousin just found a long forgotten Girl With A Balloon (canvas) down the back of the sofa that's never going to make the wall, and might take an offer? Family name Saatchi by any chance? I don't understand what the point to your post is? Youโve been on this forum for what 2 min? And youโre opening your mouth and try to be funny and sarcastic. I honestly did have a laugh though (that was indeed pretty funny) You donโt know me so I am wondering what is the point of all this? Edit : I will add that everyone who has been here for a while knows that Iโm a modern and early contemporary dealer. Never hid it. And I always tried to contribute to the community. What have you ever done for your peers here? Apologies if my post offended you - I was unaware of your legendary status as a dealer, however, the fact remains I'm v impressed with your collection. The mention of your aunt made me smile, and without knowing the context of your work my attempt at humour clearly fell flat. As for your attitude re my place as a newcomer on this forum, and my contribution, I have made no bones that as an amateur collector of some 20yrs I have joined this forum to share my passion and learn from others more experienced than me. In my short time here I have conducted free giveaways of prints from my own collection, met other members, shared views over beers, and traded as both a buyer and seller with excellent results. Thankfully none of them held my lowly status as a recent member against me! GLWTS.
Sorry mate. I guess i thought your comment was meant with a highly sarcastic tone (hence my response).
Well I interpreted the wrong way and I do apologize for it. There are a lot of people trolling sometimes and I guess I assumed wrong.
(If it was meant that way it was indeed funny).
Thanks for the nice word!
Dec 6, 2017 22:26:36 GMT 1 everyoneowes said: brushstrokes75 Avatar Dec 6, 2017 22:10:05 GMT 1 brushstrokes75 said: My aunt also wants to sell a koons puppy vase 1998 (sheโs moving) (iโm on my Phone so canโt post picture) www.christies.com/lotfinder/sculptures-statues-figures/jeff-koons-puppy-5871863-details.aspx(Just for details and picture purposes for now) Brilliant! What a collection. Don't tell me..... your younger sister is considering letting go of a couple of Hirst spots *both dedicated to your mum, who, coincidentally, has a Bacon triptych she's looking to offload, whilst your cousin just found a long forgotten Girl With A Balloon (canvas) down the back of the sofa that's never going to make the wall, and might take an offer? Family name Saatchi by any chance? I don't understand what the point to your post is? Youโve been on this forum for what 2 min? And youโre opening your mouth and try to be funny and sarcastic. I honestly did have a laugh though (that was indeed pretty funny) You donโt know me so I am wondering what is the point of all this? Edit : I will add that everyone who has been here for a while knows that Iโm a modern and early contemporary dealer. Never hid it. And I always tried to contribute to the community. What have you ever done for your peers here? Apologies if my post offended you - I was unaware of your legendary status as a dealer, however, the fact remains I'm v impressed with your collection. The mention of your aunt made me smile, and without knowing the context of your work my attempt at humour clearly fell flat. As for your attitude re my place as a newcomer on this forum, and my contribution, I have made no bones that as an amateur collector of some 20yrs I have joined this forum to share my passion and learn from others more experienced than me. In my short time here I have conducted free giveaways of prints from my own collection, met other members, shared views over beers, and traded as both a buyer and seller with excellent results. Thankfully none of them held my lowly status as a recent member against me! GLWTS. Sorry mate. I guess i thought your comment was meant with a highly sarcastic tone (hence my response). Well I interpreted the wrong way and I do apologize for it. There are a lot of people trolling sometimes and I guess I assumed wrong. (If it was meant that way it was indeed funny). Thanks for the nice word!
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bits for sale, by Brushstrokes 75 on Dec 6, 2017 23:29:08 GMT 1, Dec 6, 2017 22:26:36 GMT 1 everyoneowes said: brushstrokes75 Avatar Dec 6, 2017 22:10:05 GMT 1 brushstrokes75 said: My aunt also wants to sell a koons puppy vase 1998 (sheโs moving) (iโm on my Phone so canโt post picture)
www.christies.com/lotfinder/sculptures-statues-figures/jeff-koons-puppy-5871863-details.aspx
(Just for details and picture purposes for now)
Brilliant! What a collection.
Don't tell me..... your younger sister is considering letting go of a couple of Hirst spots *both dedicated to your mum, who, coincidentally, has a Bacon triptych she's looking to offload, whilst your cousin just found a long forgotten Girl With A Balloon (canvas) down the back of the sofa that's never going to make the wall, and might take an offer?
Family name Saatchi by any chance?
I don't understand what the point to your post is?
Youโve been on this forum for what 2 min? And youโre opening your mouth and try to be funny and sarcastic.
I honestly did have a laugh though (that was indeed pretty funny)
You donโt know me so I am wondering what is the point of all this?
Edit : I will add that most who have been here for a while know that Iโm a modern and early contemporary dealer. Never hid it. And I always tried to contribute to the community. What have you ever done for your peers here?
Dec 6, 2017 22:26:36 GMT 1 everyoneowes said: brushstrokes75 Avatar Dec 6, 2017 22:10:05 GMT 1 brushstrokes75 said: My aunt also wants to sell a koons puppy vase 1998 (sheโs moving) (iโm on my Phone so canโt post picture) www.christies.com/lotfinder/sculptures-statues-figures/jeff-koons-puppy-5871863-details.aspx(Just for details and picture purposes for now) Brilliant! What a collection. Don't tell me..... your younger sister is considering letting go of a couple of Hirst spots *both dedicated to your mum, who, coincidentally, has a Bacon triptych she's looking to offload, whilst your cousin just found a long forgotten Girl With A Balloon (canvas) down the back of the sofa that's never going to make the wall, and might take an offer? Family name Saatchi by any chance? I don't understand what the point to your post is? Youโve been on this forum for what 2 min? And youโre opening your mouth and try to be funny and sarcastic. I honestly did have a laugh though (that was indeed pretty funny) You donโt know me so I am wondering what is the point of all this? Edit : I will add that most who have been here for a while know that Iโm a modern and early contemporary dealer. Never hid it. And I always tried to contribute to the community. What have you ever done for your peers here?
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Art Basel โข Miami, Hong Kong, Paris, by Brushstrokes 75 on Dec 6, 2017 22:13:05 GMT 1, Still have pulse/untitled/scope vip passes for grabs if anyone wants them. Just PM me
Still have pulse/untitled/scope vip passes for grabs if anyone wants them. Just PM me
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bits for sale, by Brushstrokes 75 on Dec 6, 2017 20:59:28 GMT 1, Ai weiwei on hold.
Ai weiwei on hold.
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New Vhils Book + riso, by Brushstrokes 75 on Dec 6, 2017 20:57:20 GMT 1, That was a no brainer for $60
That was a no brainer for $60
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Dec 6, 2017 18:55:33 GMT 1
., by Brushstrokes 75 on Dec 6, 2017 18:55:33 GMT 1, They don't market like they used to if you want to sell a Banksy, Bonhams wouldn't be the place to sell it unless you want to take the gamble that it will sell under market However I should edit my last post, because Bonhams appear to be the cheapest place to buy banksy which means they are nots**t if you are a buyer. Forum Auctions have filled the gap that Bonhams left wide open to be filled the dude who used to head bonham prints left for forum. So did the head of dreweats so that makes sense!
However, 2 of my favourite banksy prints! Good luck with the sale!
They don't market like they used to if you want to sell a Banksy, Bonhams wouldn't be the place to sell it unless you want to take the gamble that it will sell under market However I should edit my last post, because Bonhams appear to be the cheapest place to buy banksy which means they are nots**t if you are a buyer. Forum Auctions have filled the gap that Bonhams left wide open to be filled the dude who used to head bonham prints left for forum. So did the head of dreweats so that makes sense! However, 2 of my favourite banksy prints! Good luck with the sale!
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bits for sale, by Brushstrokes 75 on Dec 6, 2017 17:47:59 GMT 1, Would love to know what you are looking for for the Joan Miro's...you have a bunch...looking to pick one up at the right price... I'll get around posting prices. Otherwise just PM me. I don't bite!
Basically prices range from 800 quid to 5k on those
Would love to know what you are looking for for the Joan Miro's...you have a bunch...looking to pick one up at the right price... I'll get around posting prices. Otherwise just PM me. I don't bite! Basically prices range from 800 quid to 5k on those
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bits for sale, by Brushstrokes 75 on Dec 6, 2017 12:20:03 GMT 1, Lovely stuff. Where are you based?
Based in Paris but some of those are stateside.
Lovely stuff. Where are you based? Based in Paris but some of those are stateside.
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Jago smalls from Unit London, by Brushstrokes 75 on Dec 4, 2017 11:22:39 GMT 1, i feel heโs always done negative space well. Any excuse...
Damn man yours looks like a smaller version of mine ๐ค
i feel heโs always done negative space well. Any excuse... Damn man yours looks like a smaller version of mine ๐ค
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Dale Marshall ๐ฌ๐ง Vermin โข New Paintings โข Exhibition News, by Brushstrokes 75 on Dec 1, 2017 23:19:24 GMT 1, Cheers there. I actually just ended up talking to dale instead so got everything I needed ๐
Cheers there. I actually just ended up talking to dale instead so got everything I needed ๐
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Dale Marshall ๐ฌ๐ง Vermin โข New Paintings โข Exhibition News, by Brushstrokes 75 on Dec 1, 2017 21:24:14 GMT 1, Can anyone share the preview/pricelist?
I can ask dale directly but might be faster through one of you guys!
Can anyone share the preview/pricelist?
I can ask dale directly but might be faster through one of you guys!
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Art Basel โข Miami, Hong Kong, Paris, by Brushstrokes 75 on Nov 30, 2017 10:33:16 GMT 1, If anyone is going to Basel, I might be able to send over some complimentary passes for a fair or two (iโm not going). I definately have tickets to art miami. I might be able to give my scope one but trickier because it s my personal one so have to figure it out. Were you the chap that had all the Dran pages ?
Yup why?
If anyone is going to Basel, I might be able to send over some complimentary passes for a fair or two (iโm not going). I definately have tickets to art miami. I might be able to give my scope one but trickier because it s my personal one so have to figure it out. Were you the chap that had all the Dran pages ? Yup why?
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Art Basel โข Miami, Hong Kong, Paris, by Brushstrokes 75 on Nov 26, 2017 19:56:22 GMT 1, If anyone is going to Basel, I might be able to send over some complimentary passes for a fair or two (iโm not going). I definately have tickets to art miami. I might be able to give my scope one but trickier because it s my personal one so have to figure it out.
If anyone is going to Basel, I might be able to send over some complimentary passes for a fair or two (iโm not going). I definately have tickets to art miami. I might be able to give my scope one but trickier because it s my personal one so have to figure it out.
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Jonas Wood โข Pot with Plant Print, by Brushstrokes 75 on Apr 26, 2017 19:05:16 GMT 1, Nice pick up from people who got one. His art is extremely hard to come by. Always presold or sold instantly. it took me over a year to buy one for a family friend.
Met him a few years back in LA before the blow up, he is a nice dude. His wife is also a pretty good artist herself.
Nice pick up from people who got one. His art is extremely hard to come by. Always presold or sold instantly. it took me over a year to buy one for a family friend.
Met him a few years back in LA before the blow up, he is a nice dude. His wife is also a pretty good artist herself.
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Which of your previous PMs makes you want to cry the most, by Brushstrokes 75 on Apr 16, 2017 19:19:32 GMT 1, I wrote a lengthy reply that i didn't get to post because I fractured my hand and had surgery last week end.
Considering you've been pretty condescending with your replies, I have to tell you your posts screams how uneducated your are about the subject.
This photo will just sum it up... koons take on consumerism
I wrote a lengthy reply that i didn't get to post because I fractured my hand and had surgery last week end. Considering you've been pretty condescending with your replies, I have to tell you your posts screams how uneducated your are about the subject. This photo will just sum it up... koons take on consumerism
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Has Banksy forgotten about your average Joe?, by Brushstrokes 75 on Apr 13, 2017 18:48:24 GMT 1, Most of everything has already been said.
The only thing I wait from a guy like Banksy is that he keeps putting stuff up on the streets. For years after the betlehem show, nothing much was done apart from the annual release.
I personally got disappointed that a street artist especially the leading one kinda stopped putting stuff in the street and i decided to support other artists who kept playig the game.
Since then and the debacle that was the CYW release. Banksy did quite a few stints : NY, dismaland, new pieces dropping on walls from time to time. I'd rather have him putting forward stuff like that every couple years than the yearly print drop.
His art is about putting stuff out there not in our living room. Kudos to him that it's worth as much and he doesn't have to bother with that and he can make a living and have enough cash to pull of major projects.
Each their own but shep decided to take another trend but I believe for one that if Banksy would release a print every week maybe his images wouldn't as witty and powerful.
Nobody complains about not having a Blu drop for years now.
As long as we get to enjoy the view...
Most of everything has already been said.
The only thing I wait from a guy like Banksy is that he keeps putting stuff up on the streets. For years after the betlehem show, nothing much was done apart from the annual release.
I personally got disappointed that a street artist especially the leading one kinda stopped putting stuff in the street and i decided to support other artists who kept playig the game.
Since then and the debacle that was the CYW release. Banksy did quite a few stints : NY, dismaland, new pieces dropping on walls from time to time. I'd rather have him putting forward stuff like that every couple years than the yearly print drop.
His art is about putting stuff out there not in our living room. Kudos to him that it's worth as much and he doesn't have to bother with that and he can make a living and have enough cash to pull of major projects.
Each their own but shep decided to take another trend but I believe for one that if Banksy would release a print every week maybe his images wouldn't as witty and powerful.
Nobody complains about not having a Blu drop for years now.
As long as we get to enjoy the view...
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Which of your previous PMs makes you want to cry the most, by Brushstrokes 75 on Apr 7, 2017 9:45:28 GMT 1, Hahaha don't really care. That s Just reality in the end. Tbh screenprinting is like the lowest form of printing (apart from offset and digital). It requires no work on the part of the artist whatsoever. Thank mr warhol for the generalization of that medium. If someone can name one other artist whose signed prints sell on average as much as banksy prints do (relative to OG prices) - I'll buy a few drinks. Apart from the quality of his art, he has one of the best management I have ever seen. He is on par with Jeff Koons (whose art is mediocre). Edit : If people thinks that mr B hasn't released anything for 7 years. Stuff are being sold and released privately for the select few and VIPs. No need to please the masses. What you probably consider higher forms of printing come from eras where they were the easiest/lowest forms of printing. If you just want to reproduce why would you use a more difficult and time consuming method? It's difficult to name another artist since banksy is just so different but I will give you one. He's right in front of you: Warhol. Where are the drinks? Koons is mediocre? I take it you didn't go to his retrospective at the Whitney. Koons and B are not succesful because of their management team. They are succesful cause they themselves are great promoters and salesmen (plus artistic talent imo). They ARE their management team. You don't sound like an art dealer. Anything but. You should really consider changing career cause you sound very cynical and burnt out about it. I meant everything I say but I also mean to say it lightly, respectfully, and with heart. I'm ok having an healthy and respectful debate. I don't want to hijack this thread so we can follow up by PM if you want.ย
Art is about craftsmanship not about things being easy. If you want the cheapest quality for your buck just do inkjet printing if we follow your logic.ย
Screenprinting was invented in the early 20th century and was popularized by Andy Warhol. People often tend to miss the fact that Warhol used that medium because it was easy to reproduce other images and his statement was to turn popular things meaningless by reproducing them over and over and over.ย
I wasn't talking much about the quality of screenprint in itself but the overuse of it by a lot of artists these days because it's cheap and easy. How many more man hours would it take the artist to do an aquatint, a linocut or even an original lithograph?ย
If you only like an image because it's pleasant to you and obviously quality has no bearing for you, why don't just buy a poster or a copy if that's all that matters. You're buying something not only because it speaks to you but because it is quality.ย
I'm a print specialist and if you think that the goal of printing is just about reproducing cheaply, you're missing out. Yes, it's started as a way for artist to be able to to offer cheaper work for sale but a lot of artists since the 16th century also treated it as a different medium to work on. Picasso printed about 2000 original prints using all technique but screenprinting. He thrived experimenting with different technique and medium and it ultimately personnaly made him a better artist.ย
As i said again, warhol isn't a good example. The average price of his prints relative to average price of his canvases are nothing like banksy's in term of ratio. I said that I think Banksy's prints as of now are slightly overpriced all things considered but also that his original pieces seems to be underpriced.ย
It's really interesting to me as I don't think I have ever since the phenomenon happen. Usually, OGs tend to gain more value than multiples because uniqueness and quality bring in a premium dollar. An example, the Picasso who holds the world record was bought in 97 for 31 millions and sold 2 years ago for 180 millions. If you compare, the most expensive picasso print was sold around 700k in 95 and now sells for around $2 million.ย
As for Koons, I think his brillance comes from how he understood early on how the art market worked. the dude got to the point where his work is presold before even being manufactured and people have no clue what they re gonna get. His art is shiny, big and pretty granted but is it really any good? Kinda easy to make an idea pretty come to life when manufacturing an artwork cost 10 million and you don't even touch the thing but to sign it lol.
Well we all know another dude on the street art scene who applied the same concepts (thierry guetta).ย
As for Banksy, his art is more brillant and more powerful. He is a way better artist technically as well. When I talk about management, I didn't mean to undermine his business mind but I trully think that Banksy isn't primarly about making $$$ and I also don't think that he manages his "career" by himself. Not because he can't but because he doesn't really give a f***ck about that aspect.ย
People also forgot that the reason there was never another print release was because of the mayhem from the Choose Your Weapon drop. People queuing before POW announced anything so POW decided to do the release anyway as hundreds were already queuing. Then thugs jumping the line. Too much drama.ย
If you look at Blu, he doesn't release much anymore publicly because that's not is primary goal.ย
As for the last point, I think I'm just a romantic about art and I value quality, integrity and craftsmanship. I'm a modern and early contemporary dealer so the artists I work on are for the most part are already dead. Now, it's not because my eyes are open as to how the market operates that it suddenly makes me burn out. You can call me cynical if you wish, I think I'm just more of a realist. If you think that a lot of primary dealers don't also already know that as well...
Hahaha don't really care. That s Just reality in the end. Tbh screenprinting is like the lowest form of printing (apart from offset and digital). It requires no work on the part of the artist whatsoever. Thank mr warhol for the generalization of that medium. If someone can name one other artist whose signed prints sell on average as much as banksy prints do (relative to OG prices) - I'll buy a few drinks. Apart from the quality of his art, he has one of the best management I have ever seen. He is on par with Jeff Koons (whose art is mediocre). Edit : If people thinks that mr B hasn't released anything for 7 years. Stuff are being sold and released privately for the select few and VIPs. No need to please the masses. What you probably consider higher forms of printing come from eras where they were the easiest/lowest forms of printing. If you just want to reproduce why would you use a more difficult and time consuming method? It's difficult to name another artist since banksy is just so different but I will give you one. He's right in front of you: Warhol. Where are the drinks? Koons is mediocre? I take it you didn't go to his retrospective at the Whitney. Koons and B are not succesful because of their management team. They are succesful cause they themselves are great promoters and salesmen (plus artistic talent imo). They ARE their management team. You don't sound like an art dealer. Anything but. You should really consider changing career cause you sound very cynical and burnt out about it. I meant everything I say but I also mean to say it lightly, respectfully, and with heart. I'm ok having an healthy and respectful debate. I don't want to hijack this thread so we can follow up by PM if you want.ย Art is about craftsmanship not about things being easy. If you want the cheapest quality for your buck just do inkjet printing if we follow your logic.ย Screenprinting was invented in the early 20th century and was popularized by Andy Warhol. People often tend to miss the fact that Warhol used that medium because it was easy to reproduce other images and his statement was to turn popular things meaningless by reproducing them over and over and over.ย I wasn't talking much about the quality of screenprint in itself but the overuse of it by a lot of artists these days because it's cheap and easy. How many more man hours would it take the artist to do an aquatint, a linocut or even an original lithograph?ย If you only like an image because it's pleasant to you and obviously quality has no bearing for you, why don't just buy a poster or a copy if that's all that matters. You're buying something not only because it speaks to you but because it is quality.ย I'm a print specialist and if you think that the goal of printing is just about reproducing cheaply, you're missing out. Yes, it's started as a way for artist to be able to to offer cheaper work for sale but a lot of artists since the 16th century also treated it as a different medium to work on. Picasso printed about 2000 original prints using all technique but screenprinting. He thrived experimenting with different technique and medium and it ultimately personnaly made him a better artist.ย As i said again, warhol isn't a good example. The average price of his prints relative to average price of his canvases are nothing like banksy's in term of ratio. I said that I think Banksy's prints as of now are slightly overpriced all things considered but also that his original pieces seems to be underpriced.ย It's really interesting to me as I don't think I have ever since the phenomenon happen. Usually, OGs tend to gain more value than multiples because uniqueness and quality bring in a premium dollar. An example, the Picasso who holds the world record was bought in 97 for 31 millions and sold 2 years ago for 180 millions. If you compare, the most expensive picasso print was sold around 700k in 95 and now sells for around $2 million.ย As for Koons, I think his brillance comes from how he understood early on how the art market worked. the dude got to the point where his work is presold before even being manufactured and people have no clue what they re gonna get. His art is shiny, big and pretty granted but is it really any good? Kinda easy to make an idea pretty come to life when manufacturing an artwork cost 10 million and you don't even touch the thing but to sign it lol. Well we all know another dude on the street art scene who applied the same concepts (thierry guetta).ย As for Banksy, his art is more brillant and more powerful. He is a way better artist technically as well. When I talk about management, I didn't mean to undermine his business mind but I trully think that Banksy isn't primarly about making $$$ and I also don't think that he manages his "career" by himself. Not because he can't but because he doesn't really give a f***ck about that aspect.ย People also forgot that the reason there was never another print release was because of the mayhem from the Choose Your Weapon drop. People queuing before POW announced anything so POW decided to do the release anyway as hundreds were already queuing. Then thugs jumping the line. Too much drama.ย If you look at Blu, he doesn't release much anymore publicly because that's not is primary goal.ย As for the last point, I think I'm just a romantic about art and I value quality, integrity and craftsmanship. I'm a modern and early contemporary dealer so the artists I work on are for the most part are already dead. Now, it's not because my eyes are open as to how the market operates that it suddenly makes me burn out. You can call me cynical if you wish, I think I'm just more of a realist. If you think that a lot of primary dealers don't also already know that as well...
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Could Banksy afford to buy a Banksy print?, by Brushstrokes 75 on Apr 6, 2017 21:22:48 GMT 1, Guys they ve been drops. They re just released privately for top $$$$
Guys they ve been drops. They re just released privately for top $$$$
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Dali
Apr 6, 2017 21:11:19 GMT 1
via mobile
Dali, by Brushstrokes 75 on Apr 6, 2017 21:11:19 GMT 1, Galerie Michael in Beverly Hills are Dali experts, and have been very helpful advising a couple of friends with their purchases (from other galleries even!). As folks have mentioned, authentication is key and worth the premium in the long run.
Galerie Michael are helpful and trustworthy gallery. However, their pricing is over the top. They re selling pronts for $15k that are worth no more than $600. Different definition of crooks.
Stay away from Park west, their biggest scandal was about the cruises and the rembrandt plates they bought and reprinted and sold as OG.
Galerie Michael in Beverly Hills are Dali experts, and have been very helpful advising a couple of friends with their purchases (from other galleries even!). As folks have mentioned, authentication is key and worth the premium in the long run. Galerie Michael are helpful and trustworthy gallery. However, their pricing is over the top. They re selling pronts for $15k that are worth no more than $600. Different definition of crooks. Stay away from Park west, their biggest scandal was about the cruises and the rembrandt plates they bought and reprinted and sold as OG.
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Dali
Apr 6, 2017 21:06:13 GMT 1
via mobile
Dali, by Brushstrokes 75 on Apr 6, 2017 21:06:13 GMT 1, There are a lot of fake dalis around but even more because dali used to sell blank sheets woth his sig on it. (That's why most dali prints aren't worth top dollar). Buy the catalogue raisonne (youshould fror every artist you re interested in actually because those are the reference). Apart from Albert field, don't waste money on paying an expert. At the end of the day, they have no authority. It's a good pointer but nothing else. People on this scene get too obsessed with CoAs, it does not really exist for printed matter for most artists. It doesn't mean works are fake either tbh.
PS : I'm no Dali expert. I m a modern art print dealer and I don't usually touch anything Dali because it's always an hassle.
There are a lot of fake dalis around but even more because dali used to sell blank sheets woth his sig on it. (That's why most dali prints aren't worth top dollar). Buy the catalogue raisonne (youshould fror every artist you re interested in actually because those are the reference). Apart from Albert field, don't waste money on paying an expert. At the end of the day, they have no authority. It's a good pointer but nothing else. People on this scene get too obsessed with CoAs, it does not really exist for printed matter for most artists. It doesn't mean works are fake either tbh.
PS : I'm no Dali expert. I m a modern art print dealer and I don't usually touch anything Dali because it's always an hassle.
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Which of your previous PMs makes you want to cry the most, by Brushstrokes 75 on Apr 6, 2017 20:25:51 GMT 1, Worst part is I'm an modern and early contemporary dealer so technically I suck at my job ๐. Or not that happens all the time to every dealer. A few years back, I was trying to sell an early (weird) vintage avedon photograph. I offered it to like 4/5 of 5 dealers for like $7k. They all passed. I put it at sotheby's. Sold for $43k hammer. That's what makes the art market weird and fascinating at the same time. As much as you know how the market works, contemporary art is PR and marketing. And as of now the banksy print market is either in a bubble or canvases are undervalued (I think a little bit of both). It baffles me that someone would pay ยฃ30/35k for a stop and search when you could buy a full size happy copper painting on cardboard (sold last month) for ยฃ100k. Cripes brushstrokes75! ย You really are airing your dirty linen in public! ย Careful or you'll find these comments being presented to you at your next annual apraissal!!!!!!
Hahaha don't really care. That s Just reality in the end.
Tbh screenprinting is like the lowest form of printing (apart from offset and digital). It requires no work on the part of the artist whatsoever. Thank mr warhol for the generalization of that medium.
If someone can name one other artist whose signed prints sell on average as much as banksy prints do (relative to OG prices) - I'll buy a few drinks.
Apart from the quality of his art, he has one of the best management I have ever seen. He is on par with Jeff Koons (whose art is mediocre).
Edit : If people thinks that mr B hasn't released anything for 7 years. Stuff are being sold and released privately for the select few and VIPs. No need to please the masses.
Worst part is I'm an modern and early contemporary dealer so technically I suck at my job ๐. Or not that happens all the time to every dealer. A few years back, I was trying to sell an early (weird) vintage avedon photograph. I offered it to like 4/5 of 5 dealers for like $7k. They all passed. I put it at sotheby's. Sold for $43k hammer. That's what makes the art market weird and fascinating at the same time. As much as you know how the market works, contemporary art is PR and marketing. And as of now the banksy print market is either in a bubble or canvases are undervalued (I think a little bit of both). It baffles me that someone would pay ยฃ30/35k for a stop and search when you could buy a full size happy copper painting on cardboard (sold last month) for ยฃ100k. Cripes brushstrokes75! ย You really are airing your dirty linen in public! ย Careful or you'll find these comments being presented to you at your next annual apraissal!!!!!! Hahaha don't really care. That s Just reality in the end. Tbh screenprinting is like the lowest form of printing (apart from offset and digital). It requires no work on the part of the artist whatsoever. Thank mr warhol for the generalization of that medium. If someone can name one other artist whose signed prints sell on average as much as banksy prints do (relative to OG prices) - I'll buy a few drinks. Apart from the quality of his art, he has one of the best management I have ever seen. He is on par with Jeff Koons (whose art is mediocre). Edit : If people thinks that mr B hasn't released anything for 7 years. Stuff are being sold and released privately for the select few and VIPs. No need to please the masses.
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Which of your previous PMs makes you want to cry the most, by Brushstrokes 75 on Apr 6, 2017 18:34:44 GMT 1, I have a few... Sold the last of my banksy prints right after the oscars because i thought the bubble was ridiculous (i still think there is a print bubble). Well Then NY happened. 4 years ago i passed on a small abstract murakami canvas for $10k that sold 3 months later at christie's for $70k Ouch! ย I am the worst person for that, my old stable was on SHS and we could look down onto Rivington when Banks was stencilling on the walls there, we were all like "He's not even a real graf guy!" ย "Who's he tryin to kid??" ย "Give it till Christmas etc etc" ย The moral of the story is, Ladies and Gentlemen, never come to me for investment decisions in the next big thing! ย I commonly try to caveat that with a bit of "I'm poor and happy" cliche but that's complete bollocks. ย ย
Worst part is I'm an modern and early contemporary dealer so technically I suck at my job ๐. Or not that happens all the time to every dealer.
A few years back, I was trying to sell an early (weird) vintage avedon photograph. I offered it to like 4/5 of 5 dealers for like $7k. They all passed. I put it at sotheby's. Sold for $43k hammer.
That's what makes the art market weird and fascinating at the same time.
As much as you know how the market works, contemporary art is PR and marketing. And as of now the banksy print market is either in a bubble or canvases are undervalued (I think a little bit of both). It baffles me that someone would pay ยฃ30/35k for a stop and search when you could buy a full size happy copper painting on cardboard (sold last month) for ยฃ100k.
I have a few... Sold the last of my banksy prints right after the oscars because i thought the bubble was ridiculous (i still think there is a print bubble). Well Then NY happened. 4 years ago i passed on a small abstract murakami canvas for $10k that sold 3 months later at christie's for $70k Ouch! ย I am the worst person for that, my old stable was on SHS and we could look down onto Rivington when Banks was stencilling on the walls there, we were all like "He's not even a real graf guy!" ย "Who's he tryin to kid??" ย "Give it till Christmas etc etc" ย The moral of the story is, Ladies and Gentlemen, never come to me for investment decisions in the next big thing! ย I commonly try to caveat that with a bit of "I'm poor and happy" cliche but that's complete bollocks. ย ย Worst part is I'm an modern and early contemporary dealer so technically I suck at my job ๐. Or not that happens all the time to every dealer. A few years back, I was trying to sell an early (weird) vintage avedon photograph. I offered it to like 4/5 of 5 dealers for like $7k. They all passed. I put it at sotheby's. Sold for $43k hammer. That's what makes the art market weird and fascinating at the same time. As much as you know how the market works, contemporary art is PR and marketing. And as of now the banksy print market is either in a bubble or canvases are undervalued (I think a little bit of both). It baffles me that someone would pay ยฃ30/35k for a stop and search when you could buy a full size happy copper painting on cardboard (sold last month) for ยฃ100k.
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Which of your previous PMs makes you want to cry the most, by Brushstrokes 75 on Apr 6, 2017 10:36:43 GMT 1, I have a few...
Sold the last of my banksy prints right after the oscars because i thought the bubble was ridiculous (i still think there is a print bubble). Well Then NY happened.
4 years ago i passed on a small abstract murakami canvas for $10k that sold 3 months later at christie's for $70k
I have a few...
Sold the last of my banksy prints right after the oscars because i thought the bubble was ridiculous (i still think there is a print bubble). Well Then NY happened.
4 years ago i passed on a small abstract murakami canvas for $10k that sold 3 months later at christie's for $70k
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Artcurial Art Auctions , by Brushstrokes 75 on Apr 6, 2017 10:25:45 GMT 1, That big fridriks is a beauty though
That big fridriks is a beauty though
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For Sale; Banksy, Slinkachu, Faile, Mr. Brainwash, Miss Bugs, by Brushstrokes 75 on Apr 5, 2017 21:10:17 GMT 1, I used to own those 2 slinkachu test proofs and I can tell you they are beautiful in the flesh.
I used to own those 2 slinkachu test proofs and I can tell you they are beautiful in the flesh.
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Tajan Auctions ๐ซ๐ท Paris, by Brushstrokes 75 on Apr 5, 2017 20:52:22 GMT 1, Aside from flight logistics (who I am contacting) does anyone have experience of shipping from uk to usa. Need to ship a canvas in a crate. Just wondering on cost /duties / amount of hassle etc !!
The Us doesn't have any duty on art.
Well that was cheap from Christie's. I guess it also depends on the value and insurance. I got quoted once ($265 for pcking and shipping) $1,500 to ship from NY to NV.
Aside from flight logistics (who I am contacting) does anyone have experience of shipping from uk to usa. Need to ship a canvas in a crate. Just wondering on cost /duties / amount of hassle etc !! The Us doesn't have any duty on art. Well that was cheap from Christie's. I guess it also depends on the value and insurance. I got quoted once ($265 for pcking and shipping) $1,500 to ship from NY to NV.
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