eschiff
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January 2010
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DALeast π¨π³ Wuhan, China β’ Street Art β’ Based in Cape Town, by eschiff on Jul 3, 2013 0:56:12 GMT 1, yeah i saw that, i don't have any issue with the painting over, i think the more interesting aspect is StreetArtNews managing the artist while promoting him on their site and not having that agenda be more open.
just nice to have some insight into how the business side of this works, more interesting sometimes to talk about than fawning reviews of the latest print of the moment
yeah i saw that, i don't have any issue with the painting over, i think the more interesting aspect is StreetArtNews managing the artist while promoting him on their site and not having that agenda be more open.
just nice to have some insight into how the business side of this works, more interesting sometimes to talk about than fawning reviews of the latest print of the moment
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dasium
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January 2011
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DALeast π¨π³ Wuhan, China β’ Street Art β’ Based in Cape Town, by dasium on Jul 3, 2013 0:57:04 GMT 1, One of the things I love about street art is the evolving temporary nature of the beast.
Non story for me... if an artist is commercially savvy to sell a few prints, have an exhibition, travel the world expressing themselves through a medium they love (+ 1000's love viewing) so be it...
One of the things I love about street art is the evolving temporary nature of the beast.
Non story for me... if an artist is commercially savvy to sell a few prints, have an exhibition, travel the world expressing themselves through a medium they love (+ 1000's love viewing) so be it...
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DALeast π¨π³ Wuhan, China β’ Street Art β’ Based in Cape Town, by graffuturism on Jul 3, 2013 1:09:28 GMT 1, Yes this is an interesting aspect of the article, but one that was not properly formulated due to the talking about going over Jimmy C. I dont really know how I feel about the subject as I have a personal relationship with my blog, my art, and the artists. I wouldnt say mine is financial as streetartnews is but I definetly commingle between these.
I have made clear on a couple occasions on my site that I am biased towards a certain type of artist. I cannot really be objective and I dont try to hide that fact. The reason I started the site and spend 3+ years updating it daily is because I have a passion for it and its artists. It does not pay at all and costs time, so if streetartnews found a way for his site to make money I cant really fault him. Many people dont understand the time and sacrifice it takes to run a blog with daily updates. I think he initially might have gotten into the manager aspect by releasing prints.
THere are other bloggers that run big sites that manage some of todays biggest streetartists I wont mention names but I dont see the conflict. One blog isnt going to make or break an artists career. One Blog isnt going to give him the higher up on another artist. I think an artist chooses a manager for other factors not just the exposure they would get on the blog. There are plenty of curators, managers, and even artists who blog. Yes they are more connected in network wise, but in the end I really believe the Art or the Artist matters.
Yes this is an interesting aspect of the article, but one that was not properly formulated due to the talking about going over Jimmy C. I dont really know how I feel about the subject as I have a personal relationship with my blog, my art, and the artists. I wouldnt say mine is financial as streetartnews is but I definetly commingle between these.
I have made clear on a couple occasions on my site that I am biased towards a certain type of artist. I cannot really be objective and I dont try to hide that fact. The reason I started the site and spend 3+ years updating it daily is because I have a passion for it and its artists. It does not pay at all and costs time, so if streetartnews found a way for his site to make money I cant really fault him. Many people dont understand the time and sacrifice it takes to run a blog with daily updates. I think he initially might have gotten into the manager aspect by releasing prints.
THere are other bloggers that run big sites that manage some of todays biggest streetartists I wont mention names but I dont see the conflict. One blog isnt going to make or break an artists career. One Blog isnt going to give him the higher up on another artist. I think an artist chooses a manager for other factors not just the exposure they would get on the blog. There are plenty of curators, managers, and even artists who blog. Yes they are more connected in network wise, but in the end I really believe the Art or the Artist matters.
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Vandalog
New Member
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DALeast π¨π³ Wuhan, China β’ Street Art β’ Based in Cape Town, by Vandalog on Jul 3, 2013 1:10:04 GMT 1, Thanks for posting. I just want to note that if you read the post when it was first posted, we've added some updates and edits before I (not Peter) made an error in believing the rumors that Rom from StreetArtNews manages DALeast. Instead, they seem to just have been business partners on this and other projects, but Rom is not DALeast's manager. Sorry for jumping the gun on that.
Thanks for posting. I just want to note that if you read the post when it was first posted, we've added some updates and edits before I (not Peter) made an error in believing the rumors that Rom from StreetArtNews manages DALeast. Instead, they seem to just have been business partners on this and other projects, but Rom is not DALeast's manager. Sorry for jumping the gun on that.
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eschiff
Junior Member
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January 2010
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DALeast π¨π³ Wuhan, China β’ Street Art β’ Based in Cape Town, by eschiff on Jul 3, 2013 1:12:15 GMT 1, Yes this is an interesting aspect of the article, but one that was not properly formulated due to the talking about going over Jimmy C. I dont really know how I feel about the subject as I have a personal relationship with my blog, my art, and the artists. I wouldnt say mine is financial as streetartnews is but I definetly commingle between these. I have made clear on a couple occasions on my site that I am biased towards a certain type of artist. I cannot really be objective and I dont try to hide that fact. The reason I started the site and spend 3+ years updating it daily is because I have a passion for it and its artists. It does not pay at all and costs time, so if streetartnews found a way for his site to make money I cant really fault him. Many people dont understand the time and sacrifice it takes to run a blog with daily updates. I think he initially might have gotten into the manager aspect by releasing prints. THere are other bloggers that run big sites that manage some of todays biggest streetartists I wont mention names but I dont see the conflict. One blog isnt going to make or break an artists career. One Blog isnt going to give him the higher up on another artist. I think an artist chooses a manager for other factors not just the exposure they would get on the blog. There are plenty of curators, managers, and even artists who blog. Yes they are more connected in network wise, but in the end I really believe the Art or the Artist matters. I think that was really well said and i wish you all the best, it seems like a passion of love for you and that's refreshing. It's just hard for me to believe sometimes its the art of the artist that matters rather than the intentions of those looking to make money. And before anyone calls me a commie, i'm all for people making money, and think if it were more open, like the above post, it would seem less slimey to me.
Yes this is an interesting aspect of the article, but one that was not properly formulated due to the talking about going over Jimmy C. I dont really know how I feel about the subject as I have a personal relationship with my blog, my art, and the artists. I wouldnt say mine is financial as streetartnews is but I definetly commingle between these. I have made clear on a couple occasions on my site that I am biased towards a certain type of artist. I cannot really be objective and I dont try to hide that fact. The reason I started the site and spend 3+ years updating it daily is because I have a passion for it and its artists. It does not pay at all and costs time, so if streetartnews found a way for his site to make money I cant really fault him. Many people dont understand the time and sacrifice it takes to run a blog with daily updates. I think he initially might have gotten into the manager aspect by releasing prints. THere are other bloggers that run big sites that manage some of todays biggest streetartists I wont mention names but I dont see the conflict. One blog isnt going to make or break an artists career. One Blog isnt going to give him the higher up on another artist. I think an artist chooses a manager for other factors not just the exposure they would get on the blog. There are plenty of curators, managers, and even artists who blog. Yes they are more connected in network wise, but in the end I really believe the Art or the Artist matters. I think that was really well said and i wish you all the best, it seems like a passion of love for you and that's refreshing. It's just hard for me to believe sometimes its the art of the artist that matters rather than the intentions of those looking to make money. And before anyone calls me a commie, i'm all for people making money, and think if it were more open, like the above post, it would seem less slimey to me.
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DALeast π¨π³ Wuhan, China β’ Street Art β’ Based in Cape Town, by graffuturism on Jul 3, 2013 1:20:53 GMT 1, Thanks Echiff, I dont think you are wrong to be weary as there are always people out there looking to exploit this artform.
On a side note How do I get Media above my name like Vandalog. haha
Thanks Echiff, I dont think you are wrong to be weary as there are always people out there looking to exploit this artform.
On a side note How do I get Media above my name like Vandalog. haha
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banks1986
New Member
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March 2013
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DALeast π¨π³ Wuhan, China β’ Street Art β’ Based in Cape Town, by banks1986 on Jul 3, 2013 1:23:09 GMT 1, Will, i reposed the ad with a picture! PM if you'd like
Thanks
Will, i reposed the ad with a picture! PM if you'd like
Thanks
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Vandalog
New Member
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April 2009
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DALeast π¨π³ Wuhan, China β’ Street Art β’ Based in Cape Town, by Vandalog on Jul 3, 2013 1:40:03 GMT 1, Thanks Echiff, I dont think you are wrong to be weary as there are always people out there looking to exploit this artform. On a side note How do I get Media above my name like Vandalog. haha Haha I would tell you but I don't know myself.
Thanks Echiff, I dont think you are wrong to be weary as there are always people out there looking to exploit this artform. On a side note How do I get Media above my name like Vandalog. haha Haha I would tell you but I don't know myself.
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sohohoho
Junior Member
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April 2011
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DALeast π¨π³ Wuhan, China β’ Street Art β’ Based in Cape Town, by sohohoho on Jul 3, 2013 1:48:01 GMT 1, Pot, kettle, black. The article was written by Peter Drew who is from Adelaide. James Cochran (Jimmy C) is also from Adelaide and they are old friends. Peter Drew has abused his access to Vandalog and has made RJ look stupid. Legal walls get recycled, get over it. Especially ones as dated as Jimmy C's. Dal wouldn't give a s**t if his wall got painted over. It has served it's many purposes and it will live on forever in many different forms. As for SAN "neglecting to mention a conflict of interest", is this a joke? Is he not aware that SAN produced Dal's first two prints? Either way, SAN obviously sets a level playing field. Has he not seen the list of artists who SAN document work by? 98% of whom there is no so called "conflict of interest". That's if you consider releasing affordable prints as a conflict of interest! Need I go on?
Pot, kettle, black. The article was written by Peter Drew who is from Adelaide. James Cochran (Jimmy C) is also from Adelaide and they are old friends. Peter Drew has abused his access to Vandalog and has made RJ look stupid. Legal walls get recycled, get over it. Especially ones as dated as Jimmy C's. Dal wouldn't give a s**t if his wall got painted over. It has served it's many purposes and it will live on forever in many different forms. As for SAN "neglecting to mention a conflict of interest", is this a joke? Is he not aware that SAN produced Dal's first two prints? Either way, SAN obviously sets a level playing field. Has he not seen the list of artists who SAN document work by? 98% of whom there is no so called "conflict of interest". That's if you consider releasing affordable prints as a conflict of interest! Need I go on?
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Forbidden Love
Junior Member
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September 2011
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DALeast π¨π³ Wuhan, China β’ Street Art β’ Based in Cape Town, by Forbidden Love on Jul 3, 2013 11:15:50 GMT 1, street art isnt forever, thats the beauty!
street art isnt forever, thats the beauty!
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twist65
Junior Member
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November 2008
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DALeast π¨π³ Wuhan, China β’ Street Art β’ Based in Cape Town, by twist65 on Jul 3, 2013 12:17:41 GMT 1, totally agree with sohohoho.. Anyone who regularly dips into SAN is more than aware of which artists they have a professional relationship with, and which they just like.Pretty sure there's still a link to their recent prints catalogue on there too. Vandalog is more than guilty of promoting artists who they work with/have worked with in the past, without disclaiming their bias or relationship (the pitiful Hanksy anyone??), and I bet most of the artists who get plenty of coverage on there just happen to feature in RJ or his familys art collections... I would be tempted to look at yourself before posting some petty blog-war or sensationalised personal dig as it looks kind of pathetic.
It's also plainly obvious that DAL has someone secure walls for him to paint, so he can just get on with painting them. If this upsets artists who have painted the spot previously, then maybe they need to either grow up or just paint canvases instead of public spaces. And if DAL prefers to make some cool/cryptic comment in an interview then perhaps he just doesn't really take interviews too seriously, or a language barrier prevents him from going into eloquent details?
For transparency, I don't own any work by DAL, and I don't even like his style although admit its impressive from a technical point of view. And like this forum I enjoy both Vandalog and SAN for their news. =]
totally agree with sohohoho.. Anyone who regularly dips into SAN is more than aware of which artists they have a professional relationship with, and which they just like.Pretty sure there's still a link to their recent prints catalogue on there too. Vandalog is more than guilty of promoting artists who they work with/have worked with in the past, without disclaiming their bias or relationship (the pitiful Hanksy anyone??), and I bet most of the artists who get plenty of coverage on there just happen to feature in RJ or his familys art collections... I would be tempted to look at yourself before posting some petty blog-war or sensationalised personal dig as it looks kind of pathetic.
It's also plainly obvious that DAL has someone secure walls for him to paint, so he can just get on with painting them. If this upsets artists who have painted the spot previously, then maybe they need to either grow up or just paint canvases instead of public spaces. And if DAL prefers to make some cool/cryptic comment in an interview then perhaps he just doesn't really take interviews too seriously, or a language barrier prevents him from going into eloquent details?
For transparency, I don't own any work by DAL, and I don't even like his style although admit its impressive from a technical point of view. And like this forum I enjoy both Vandalog and SAN for their news. =]
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alittle
Junior Member
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November 2012
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DALeast π¨π³ Wuhan, China β’ Street Art β’ Based in Cape Town, by alittle on Jul 3, 2013 13:43:15 GMT 1, Story of the year! Oh wait, who gives a shit?
Story of the year! Oh wait, who gives a shit?
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mrkyuss
New Member
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September 2011
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DALeast π¨π³ Wuhan, China β’ Street Art β’ Based in Cape Town, by mrkyuss on Jul 3, 2013 13:49:29 GMT 1, What about SAN selling his 'sold out' prints on ebay at an inflated price? That's where the real ethical issues arise..
What about SAN selling his 'sold out' prints on ebay at an inflated price? That's where the real ethical issues arise..
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eschiff
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DALeast π¨π³ Wuhan, China β’ Street Art β’ Based in Cape Town, by eschiff on Jul 3, 2013 14:26:00 GMT 1, Story of the year! Oh wait, who gives a s**t? good point! Let's fawn over the latest shite release instead!
and mrkyuss, that's a hell of an accusation. Would be interested to hear more if it was objective and fact based.
Story of the year! Oh wait, who gives a s**t? good point! Let's fawn over the latest shite release instead! and mrkyuss, that's a hell of an accusation. Would be interested to hear more if it was objective and fact based.
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alittle
Junior Member
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November 2012
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DALeast π¨π³ Wuhan, China β’ Street Art β’ Based in Cape Town, by alittle on Jul 3, 2013 15:02:41 GMT 1, You think this non-story is more worthy of discussion than a release?
You think this non-story is more worthy of discussion than a release?
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sohohoho
Junior Member
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April 2011
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DALeast π¨π³ Wuhan, China β’ Street Art β’ Based in Cape Town, by sohohoho on Jul 3, 2013 15:10:22 GMT 1, What about SAN selling his 'sold out' prints on ebay at an inflated price? That's where the real ethical issues arise..
and mrkyuss, that's a hell of an accusation. Would be interested to hear more if it was objective and fact based. It certainly is. Nick, are you working for VL? What's your story?
What about SAN selling his 'sold out' prints on ebay at an inflated price? That's where the real ethical issues arise.. and mrkyuss, that's a hell of an accusation. Would be interested to hear more if it was objective and fact based. It certainly is. Nick, are you working for VL? What's your story?
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dotdot
Junior Member
π¨οΈ 3,660
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December 2006
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DALeast π¨π³ Wuhan, China β’ Street Art β’ Based in Cape Town, by dotdot on Jul 3, 2013 15:34:14 GMT 1, You think this non-story is more worthy of discussion than a release?
far be it for me to ask a question of note.
.. what do you think, alittle ?
or do you think a little alittle... or just notatall... perhaps a little is too much for us ?
your views are more than welcome here.
You think this non-story is more worthy of discussion than a release? far be it for me to ask a question of note. .. what do you think, alittle ? or do you think a little alittle... or just notatall... perhaps a little is too much for us ? your views are more than welcome here.
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alittle
Junior Member
π¨οΈ 1,575
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November 2012
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DALeast π¨π³ Wuhan, China β’ Street Art β’ Based in Cape Town, by alittle on Jul 3, 2013 15:55:33 GMT 1, Yesterday I should, and what happened tomorrow? Today I forgot.
Yesterday I should, and what happened tomorrow? Today I forgot.
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Sacked...
Full Member
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October 2007
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DALeast π¨π³ Wuhan, China β’ Street Art β’ Based in Cape Town, by Sacked... on Jul 3, 2013 20:03:52 GMT 1, From Vandalog :
DALeast
Update: Although Rom, the owner of StreetArtNews, has contacted Vandalog and denied his role as βmanagerβ, claiming only to be βgood friendsβ with DALeast, this seems unlikely in light of his role in the mural. According to Jimmy C himself, Rom was actually onsite when Jimmy approached DALeast at the wall. When DALeast apologised, he told Jimmy C that he (gesturing to Rom) had organised the wall. Rom then offered his own apologies to Jimmy C, adding that he could get him βany wall in the worldβ from L.A. to Miami in compensate for the mishap. Sounds like a manager to me, or at least business partner. β PD
The professionalisation of street art is nothing new, so why do some career artists still conceal their commercial strategies behind their anarchist personas? Because itβs cool, right?
Letβs have a look at DALeastβs recent excursion to London that saw 7 new walls culminate in his first solo exhibition in the British capital. One of those walls went over Jimmy Cβs portrait of Usain Bolt without any consultation. Maybe youβd say, βSo what? Itβs an ephemeral art form, get used to itβ. Maybe, but the fact that DALeast went to the trouble to get permission from the buildingβs owner whilst disregarding Jimmy C does say something about his priorities. Whatβs more interesting is DALeastβs own excuse.
When Jimmy C found DALeast painting over his mural, the newcomer shrugged an apology down from the scissor lift and explained that his βmanagerβ had organised the wall for him. When RJ in a recent interview with DALeast asked βwhat makes you want to paint a particular wall or notβ the artist simply replied, βfateβ which sounds so much cooler than βmy manager picks my walls for meβ. Itβs easy to see why DALeast would avoid that part of the picture but it does makes you wonder what a professional street artist really is.
As it turns out, DALeastβs manager is none other than the owner of the popular blog StreetArtNews (edit) the βmanagerβ DALeast was referring to seems to have been Rom from StreetArtNews, who while not technically DALeastβs manager did help to organize some of DALeastβs walls in London and worked with him on the contest/gallery show project he did there. StreetArtNews regularly features DALeastβs work whilst neglecting to mention any conflict of interest. I guess it must be handy to have a manager (edit) business partner who runs a trusted publicity platform but, for those of us who view street art as a DIY counterculture, weβd better get used to questioning where our βnewsβ comes from.
Traditionally, the journey from vandal to professional starts with the artistβs first commissioned piece which leads to bigger and bigger murals and ends with a show for Jeffery Deitch and a line of sneakers. Youβd think that this career trajectory might have become boring by now, and letβs hope that it has, but old market strategies will always be replaced by fresh ones that find new ways to feed the bottomless appetite for adolescent rebellion.
With a new spin on an old clichΓ©, artists assume the pose of βfuck the systemβ until their audience wise up to the contradictory and masturbatory claims of an industry that apparently aims to fuck itself. Moving on, the informed audience is quickly replaced by the next crop of pubescent rebels, all too eager to buy the OBEY cap, adopt Brooklyn slang and congratulate themselves for being authentic.
For anyone that believes street art can be more than the lucrative exploitation of teen angst, itβs important to call bullshit whenever it appears. Put simply, be a capitalist, or, be an anarchist, just donβt tell us youβre both.
From Vandalog :
DALeast
Update: Although Rom, the owner of StreetArtNews, has contacted Vandalog and denied his role as βmanagerβ, claiming only to be βgood friendsβ with DALeast, this seems unlikely in light of his role in the mural. According to Jimmy C himself, Rom was actually onsite when Jimmy approached DALeast at the wall. When DALeast apologised, he told Jimmy C that he (gesturing to Rom) had organised the wall. Rom then offered his own apologies to Jimmy C, adding that he could get him βany wall in the worldβ from L.A. to Miami in compensate for the mishap. Sounds like a manager to me, or at least business partner. β PD
The professionalisation of street art is nothing new, so why do some career artists still conceal their commercial strategies behind their anarchist personas? Because itβs cool, right?
Letβs have a look at DALeastβs recent excursion to London that saw 7 new walls culminate in his first solo exhibition in the British capital. One of those walls went over Jimmy Cβs portrait of Usain Bolt without any consultation. Maybe youβd say, βSo what? Itβs an ephemeral art form, get used to itβ. Maybe, but the fact that DALeast went to the trouble to get permission from the buildingβs owner whilst disregarding Jimmy C does say something about his priorities. Whatβs more interesting is DALeastβs own excuse.
When Jimmy C found DALeast painting over his mural, the newcomer shrugged an apology down from the scissor lift and explained that his βmanagerβ had organised the wall for him. When RJ in a recent interview with DALeast asked βwhat makes you want to paint a particular wall or notβ the artist simply replied, βfateβ which sounds so much cooler than βmy manager picks my walls for meβ. Itβs easy to see why DALeast would avoid that part of the picture but it does makes you wonder what a professional street artist really is.
As it turns out, DALeastβs manager is none other than the owner of the popular blog StreetArtNews (edit) the βmanagerβ DALeast was referring to seems to have been Rom from StreetArtNews, who while not technically DALeastβs manager did help to organize some of DALeastβs walls in London and worked with him on the contest/gallery show project he did there. StreetArtNews regularly features DALeastβs work whilst neglecting to mention any conflict of interest. I guess it must be handy to have a manager (edit) business partner who runs a trusted publicity platform but, for those of us who view street art as a DIY counterculture, weβd better get used to questioning where our βnewsβ comes from.
Traditionally, the journey from vandal to professional starts with the artistβs first commissioned piece which leads to bigger and bigger murals and ends with a show for Jeffery Deitch and a line of sneakers. Youβd think that this career trajectory might have become boring by now, and letβs hope that it has, but old market strategies will always be replaced by fresh ones that find new ways to feed the bottomless appetite for adolescent rebellion.
With a new spin on an old clichΓ©, artists assume the pose of βfuck the systemβ until their audience wise up to the contradictory and masturbatory claims of an industry that apparently aims to fuck itself. Moving on, the informed audience is quickly replaced by the next crop of pubescent rebels, all too eager to buy the OBEY cap, adopt Brooklyn slang and congratulate themselves for being authentic.
For anyone that believes street art can be more than the lucrative exploitation of teen angst, itβs important to call bullshit whenever it appears. Put simply, be a capitalist, or, be an anarchist, just donβt tell us youβre both.
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Dibbs 45
Junior Member
π¨οΈ 3,913
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October 2012
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DALeast π¨π³ Wuhan, China β’ Street Art β’ Based in Cape Town, by Dibbs 45 on Jul 3, 2013 20:07:19 GMT 1, Sacked there is already a thread on this matter that there's a lot of discussion on. I don't know whether you are aware of it.
Sacked there is already a thread on this matter that there's a lot of discussion on. I don't know whether you are aware of it.
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Sacked...
Full Member
π¨οΈ 7,978
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October 2007
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DALeast π¨π³ Wuhan, China β’ Street Art β’ Based in Cape Town, by Sacked... on Jul 3, 2013 21:30:08 GMT 1, No,i was'nt ,i was watching 'The Apprentice'.
No,i was'nt ,i was watching 'The Apprentice'.
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curiousgeorge
Junior Member
π¨οΈ 5,833
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March 2007
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DALeast π¨π³ Wuhan, China β’ Street Art β’ Based in Cape Town, by curiousgeorge on Jul 3, 2013 21:56:13 GMT 1, Little more to this 'story' than meets the eye.You can take that to the bank!!
Little more to this 'story' than meets the eye.You can take that to the bank!!
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Vandalog
New Member
π¨οΈ 31
ππ» 2
April 2009
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DALeast π¨π³ Wuhan, China β’ Street Art β’ Based in Cape Town, by Vandalog on Jul 4, 2013 1:33:15 GMT 1, totally agree with sohohoho.. Anyone who regularly dips into SAN is more than aware of which artists they have a professional relationship with, and which they just like.Pretty sure there's still a link to their recent prints catalogue on there too. Vandalog is more than guilty of promoting artists who they work with/have worked with in the past, without disclaiming their bias or relationship (the pitiful Hanksy anyone??), and I bet most of the artists who get plenty of coverage on there just happen to feature in RJ or his familys art collections... I would be tempted to look at yourself before posting some petty blog-war or sensationalised personal dig as it looks kind of pathetic. It's also plainly obvious that DAL has someone secure walls for him to paint, so he can just get on with painting them. If this upsets artists who have painted the spot previously, then maybe they need to either grow up or just paint canvases instead of public spaces. And if DAL prefers to make some cool/cryptic comment in an interview then perhaps he just doesn't really take interviews too seriously, or a language barrier prevents him from going into eloquent details? For transparency, I don't own any work by DAL, and I don't even like his style although admit its impressive from a technical point of view. And like this forum I enjoy both Vandalog and SAN for their news. =] Anyone who is a consistent enough reader of SAN to also be a forum regular is, yes, probably aware of some sort of ties between SAN and DAL, or at least of the print releases that SAN does. But I don't think that's most people. And doing a print release or even two is not really an extended relationship. There's little reason to believe that just because SAN sold some DAL prints months ago that Rom still had a strong financial interest in DAL's projects. There's a difference between working with artists in the past and having an ongoing financial interest in them.
If I had to always note it every time I wrote about an artist that I've worked with at some point in the past (whether on a project where I had a financial interest or not), the disclosures would be so regular that they would be devoid of all meaning. Should I mention that 3.5 years ago I included Roa in a show every time I post about Roa even though I haven't had any financial interest in his career since? Doesn't seem useful to me.
Yes, I can certainly be guilty of something along the same lines as what Peter accused Rom of. And I appreciate people calling me out for it when there's merit to the claim. I post on Vandalog about artists I've worked with because I try to work with artists that I like. The difference between what I do and what I see Rom doing is that I try my best to be honest about when I have a financial interest in an artist's career. And if I'm dishonest, I appreciate having a discussion about it.
And sure, I often give a disproportionate about of attention to artists that I'm working with around the time that I'm working with them. No doubt about that. A few people in London recently told me that they thought I was covering The Yok and Sheryo too heavily earlier this year. That was due to a combination of factors (I like the work, they send me the work they do, they were painting a lot to hype up a show...), but I'm sure it also had to do with the fact that I knew they were going to paint something for the project that I help out with (without compensation) in Little Italy. Once they painted that piece in Little Italy, I said on Vandalog that I was involved in organizing the piece. Even without the direct financial incentive, should I have said something sooner when I was posting about their work? Maybe. If you think so, call me out for it (as you've done with Hanksy) and let's talk.
Working with Hanksy was an interesting experience. I had completely written him off, but once I got to know him, I realized that he doesn't take himself seriously, and so my fear of another MBW wore off and I just began to enjoy the work for what it is: Some quick puns that people who could care less about street art love. It's not great art, but he doesn't intend it to be. But yes, that change came through working with him on a project. But I have still posted about him since even though I have no financial reason to. Still, I can see why you bring him up, since my opinion about him did shift once I began working with him and I know how that looks.
Honestly, I don't think that my dad's collection has as much of an influence on my posts as some people think, at least not in the way they think. I don't list or note every artist whose work he collects because it's not my place to do so (unlike where it clearly is my responsibility to be clear about the artists that I'm working with), but the value of his collection is not something that plays into my posts, in part because I'm pretty sure I couldn't have any influence over the price of Faile prints for example even if I wanted to. I've written positively and negatively about artists he collects. After all, if I know he's reading the site, and maybe my writing does have some small influence on him if I'm lucky, why would I say "Man, I think this Cartrain piece is amazing!" when what I really think is "Wow this Cartrain piece is terrible and I hope my dad doesn't try to buy another Cartrain and hang this one in my room." I also don't make a secret of that collection, even if I don't point it out all the time, and hopefully it's a clear and consistent financial incentive that people are aware of when they are reading Vandalog. I may not think it influences me, but I'm not too bothered if you keep it in the back of your mind while you're reading the site. Rom doesn't seem to want the thought of him having a continued financial relationship with DAL anywhere in our minds. That's a major difference.
totally agree with sohohoho.. Anyone who regularly dips into SAN is more than aware of which artists they have a professional relationship with, and which they just like.Pretty sure there's still a link to their recent prints catalogue on there too. Vandalog is more than guilty of promoting artists who they work with/have worked with in the past, without disclaiming their bias or relationship (the pitiful Hanksy anyone??), and I bet most of the artists who get plenty of coverage on there just happen to feature in RJ or his familys art collections... I would be tempted to look at yourself before posting some petty blog-war or sensationalised personal dig as it looks kind of pathetic. It's also plainly obvious that DAL has someone secure walls for him to paint, so he can just get on with painting them. If this upsets artists who have painted the spot previously, then maybe they need to either grow up or just paint canvases instead of public spaces. And if DAL prefers to make some cool/cryptic comment in an interview then perhaps he just doesn't really take interviews too seriously, or a language barrier prevents him from going into eloquent details? For transparency, I don't own any work by DAL, and I don't even like his style although admit its impressive from a technical point of view. And like this forum I enjoy both Vandalog and SAN for their news. =] Anyone who is a consistent enough reader of SAN to also be a forum regular is, yes, probably aware of some sort of ties between SAN and DAL, or at least of the print releases that SAN does. But I don't think that's most people. And doing a print release or even two is not really an extended relationship. There's little reason to believe that just because SAN sold some DAL prints months ago that Rom still had a strong financial interest in DAL's projects. There's a difference between working with artists in the past and having an ongoing financial interest in them. If I had to always note it every time I wrote about an artist that I've worked with at some point in the past (whether on a project where I had a financial interest or not), the disclosures would be so regular that they would be devoid of all meaning. Should I mention that 3.5 years ago I included Roa in a show every time I post about Roa even though I haven't had any financial interest in his career since? Doesn't seem useful to me. Yes, I can certainly be guilty of something along the same lines as what Peter accused Rom of. And I appreciate people calling me out for it when there's merit to the claim. I post on Vandalog about artists I've worked with because I try to work with artists that I like. The difference between what I do and what I see Rom doing is that I try my best to be honest about when I have a financial interest in an artist's career. And if I'm dishonest, I appreciate having a discussion about it. And sure, I often give a disproportionate about of attention to artists that I'm working with around the time that I'm working with them. No doubt about that. A few people in London recently told me that they thought I was covering The Yok and Sheryo too heavily earlier this year. That was due to a combination of factors (I like the work, they send me the work they do, they were painting a lot to hype up a show...), but I'm sure it also had to do with the fact that I knew they were going to paint something for the project that I help out with (without compensation) in Little Italy. Once they painted that piece in Little Italy, I said on Vandalog that I was involved in organizing the piece. Even without the direct financial incentive, should I have said something sooner when I was posting about their work? Maybe. If you think so, call me out for it (as you've done with Hanksy) and let's talk. Working with Hanksy was an interesting experience. I had completely written him off, but once I got to know him, I realized that he doesn't take himself seriously, and so my fear of another MBW wore off and I just began to enjoy the work for what it is: Some quick puns that people who could care less about street art love. It's not great art, but he doesn't intend it to be. But yes, that change came through working with him on a project. But I have still posted about him since even though I have no financial reason to. Still, I can see why you bring him up, since my opinion about him did shift once I began working with him and I know how that looks. Honestly, I don't think that my dad's collection has as much of an influence on my posts as some people think, at least not in the way they think. I don't list or note every artist whose work he collects because it's not my place to do so (unlike where it clearly is my responsibility to be clear about the artists that I'm working with), but the value of his collection is not something that plays into my posts, in part because I'm pretty sure I couldn't have any influence over the price of Faile prints for example even if I wanted to. I've written positively and negatively about artists he collects. After all, if I know he's reading the site, and maybe my writing does have some small influence on him if I'm lucky, why would I say "Man, I think this Cartrain piece is amazing!" when what I really think is "Wow this Cartrain piece is terrible and I hope my dad doesn't try to buy another Cartrain and hang this one in my room." I also don't make a secret of that collection, even if I don't point it out all the time, and hopefully it's a clear and consistent financial incentive that people are aware of when they are reading Vandalog. I may not think it influences me, but I'm not too bothered if you keep it in the back of your mind while you're reading the site. Rom doesn't seem to want the thought of him having a continued financial relationship with DAL anywhere in our minds. That's a major difference.
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mrkyuss
New Member
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September 2011
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DALeast π¨π³ Wuhan, China β’ Street Art β’ Based in Cape Town, by mrkyuss on Jul 4, 2013 1:33:27 GMT 1, What about SAN selling his 'sold out' prints on ebay at an inflated price? That's where the real ethical issues arise.. and mrkyuss, that's a hell of an accusation.Β Would be interested to hear more if it was objective and fact based. It certainly is. Nick, are you working for VL? What's your story?
I dont work for anyone. I get pissed when people are spending their hard earned on prints that have been hyped to the max, then find out the website which is hyping/producing/representing these artists are selling prints on ebay for inflated prices AND hyping their own releases on forums. I have evidence to support this, which im obviously not revealing on an open forum. I will just not deal with them in future.
What about SAN selling his 'sold out' prints on ebay at an inflated price? That's where the real ethical issues arise.. and mrkyuss, that's a hell of an accusation.Β Would be interested to hear more if it was objective and fact based. It certainly is. Nick, are you working for VL? What's your story? I dont work for anyone. I get pissed when people are spending their hard earned on prints that have been hyped to the max, then find out the website which is hyping/producing/representing these artists are selling prints on ebay for inflated prices AND hyping their own releases on forums. I have evidence to support this, which im obviously not revealing on an open forum. I will just not deal with them in future.
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DALeast π¨π³ Wuhan, China β’ Street Art β’ Based in Cape Town, by graffuturism on Jul 4, 2013 2:12:01 GMT 1,
I have always been weary of the print business for these same reasons, i have heard my fair share of Gossip and backroom talk about how crooked these 90% or more of these print releases are. I cant grasp why anyone would pay some of the prices that are going for these prints even at the best quality an Original by a lesser known seems so much for personal, even if a drawing or on paper. Speculators drive most markets, and then then there is the powers that can manipulate markets. Both these 2 combined make for a terrible combination. I think a forum like this is great for beginners and such that have no clue what to expect. This could be a whole other thread in itself.
Ill get back on topic and respond to some of what vandalog said. I can relate to some of what he says in this post but our positions are different. I think Vandalog does a good job of trying to stay true to the journalistic side of things, reporting on news and so forth. The problem is reporting on news and having an opinion involved checking facts and so forth. Newspapers have set rules, blogs have less and we all get that. This article with a negative slant that was later unconfirmed and edited doesnt look good for a blog that is trying to get the story right. If you are going to try to report on the happenings and news so to say Its important to be correct. I like the style Vandalog portrays a mixture of honest opinion based articles and coverage, mixed in with some news. Its a great product. Unfortunately for you the more readership that looks your way the more they expect of you I guess. Most donβt know the personal information you mentioned here, and when people who have money invested in the artists you are covering feel slighted well you are going to get taken to the shed so to say. This is a key component though of the conversation, blogs should not have that much power over peoples spending habits. A blog much like myself just might want to share his favorite artists, or murals with the world. We are not saying hey this guy is the next banksy so make sure you buy him. We are saying this work is amazing look at how impressive it is we hope you enjoy it as much as we do. SAN seems to have started that way but seen an opportunity and taken it. Opportunity has presented itself to RJ, Myself, SAN and so forth. Its easy for people to think we are larger than we are because they read what we print. Like anyone else in these positions, some could take advantage of it. I am not saying anyone or do i know anyone doing this but it is common sense to think that there is a percentage that does.
My point is that Vandalog, myself, SAN, Arrested Motion and so forth should only be research not taken as actual fact. We have our relationships with certain artists, genres of art, cities, galleries, and so forth Its impossible not to be biased. Hopefully you can understand that those Biases atleast in my case and RJ as I can make that judgement are not financial. I am pushing for something larger than a print release. I am trying to bring a larger dialogue than how can I get money in my pocket or a certain friend. The whole artform needs to push forward and break more boundaries, books, museums proper academic discourse etc. etc. Thats just my take on the whole thing. Like I said I know the market is crooked in many ways I make no excuses for that. I only try to argue that blame should be placed not on some blog for hard earned money being lost. Read things for what they and please buy something with more information than what some blog put or Hype. Real purchases should take place regardless of financial losses or gains.
I have always been weary of the print business for these same reasons, i have heard my fair share of Gossip and backroom talk about how crooked these 90% or more of these print releases are. I cant grasp why anyone would pay some of the prices that are going for these prints even at the best quality an Original by a lesser known seems so much for personal, even if a drawing or on paper. Speculators drive most markets, and then then there is the powers that can manipulate markets. Both these 2 combined make for a terrible combination. I think a forum like this is great for beginners and such that have no clue what to expect. This could be a whole other thread in itself.
Ill get back on topic and respond to some of what vandalog said. I can relate to some of what he says in this post but our positions are different. I think Vandalog does a good job of trying to stay true to the journalistic side of things, reporting on news and so forth. The problem is reporting on news and having an opinion involved checking facts and so forth. Newspapers have set rules, blogs have less and we all get that. This article with a negative slant that was later unconfirmed and edited doesnt look good for a blog that is trying to get the story right. If you are going to try to report on the happenings and news so to say Its important to be correct. I like the style Vandalog portrays a mixture of honest opinion based articles and coverage, mixed in with some news. Its a great product. Unfortunately for you the more readership that looks your way the more they expect of you I guess. Most donβt know the personal information you mentioned here, and when people who have money invested in the artists you are covering feel slighted well you are going to get taken to the shed so to say. This is a key component though of the conversation, blogs should not have that much power over peoples spending habits. A blog much like myself just might want to share his favorite artists, or murals with the world. We are not saying hey this guy is the next banksy so make sure you buy him. We are saying this work is amazing look at how impressive it is we hope you enjoy it as much as we do. SAN seems to have started that way but seen an opportunity and taken it. Opportunity has presented itself to RJ, Myself, SAN and so forth. Its easy for people to think we are larger than we are because they read what we print. Like anyone else in these positions, some could take advantage of it. I am not saying anyone or do i know anyone doing this but it is common sense to think that there is a percentage that does.
My point is that Vandalog, myself, SAN, Arrested Motion and so forth should only be research not taken as actual fact. We have our relationships with certain artists, genres of art, cities, galleries, and so forth Its impossible not to be biased. Hopefully you can understand that those Biases atleast in my case and RJ as I can make that judgement are not financial. I am pushing for something larger than a print release. I am trying to bring a larger dialogue than how can I get money in my pocket or a certain friend. The whole artform needs to push forward and break more boundaries, books, museums proper academic discourse etc. etc. Thats just my take on the whole thing. Like I said I know the market is crooked in many ways I make no excuses for that. I only try to argue that blame should be placed not on some blog for hard earned money being lost. Read things for what they and please buy something with more information than what some blog put or Hype. Real purchases should take place regardless of financial losses or gains.
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Deleted
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January 1970
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DALeast π¨π³ Wuhan, China β’ Street Art β’ Based in Cape Town, by Deleted on Jul 4, 2013 2:24:46 GMT 1, So this whole thread is about how one mural artist got upset at another mural artist for legally painting over his work.
Forgive me this all sounds incredibly 'weak', I'm sure their lawyers can discuss their grievances and they can all be happy again.
Pathetic.
As for the management influence baloney, it really doesn't take a Stephen hawking to see how biased every blog is, we're not talking smart investigative journalism here, we're talking ppl trying to sell their love (originally).
So this whole thread is about how one mural artist got upset at another mural artist for legally painting over his work.
Forgive me this all sounds incredibly 'weak', I'm sure their lawyers can discuss their grievances and they can all be happy again.
Pathetic.
As for the management influence baloney, it really doesn't take a Stephen hawking to see how biased every blog is, we're not talking smart investigative journalism here, we're talking ppl trying to sell their love (originally).
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Vandalog
New Member
π¨οΈ 31
ππ» 2
April 2009
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DALeast π¨π³ Wuhan, China β’ Street Art β’ Based in Cape Town, by Vandalog on Jul 4, 2013 4:43:14 GMT 1, This article with a negative slant that was later unconfirmed and edited doesnt look good for a blog that is trying to get the story right. If you are going to try to report on the happenings and news so to say Its important to be correct. Agreed and I messed up on this one. No doubt about it. But even with the inaccuracies clarified, I think the basic point of the post still holds true.
This article with a negative slant that was later unconfirmed and edited doesnt look good for a blog that is trying to get the story right. If you are going to try to report on the happenings and news so to say Its important to be correct. Agreed and I messed up on this one. No doubt about it. But even with the inaccuracies clarified, I think the basic point of the post still holds true.
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sohohoho
Junior Member
π¨οΈ 1,693
ππ» 451
April 2011
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DALeast π¨π³ Wuhan, China β’ Street Art β’ Based in Cape Town, by sohohoho on Jul 4, 2013 15:53:55 GMT 1, So one person makes an accusation and all of a sudden it's gospel?s**t sticks so don't go jumping on the bandwagon unless you've got proof. I've offered to help mrkyuss reveal the identity of the eBay user in question so let's see.
So one person makes an accusation and all of a sudden it's gospel?s**t sticks so don't go jumping on the bandwagon unless you've got proof. I've offered to help mrkyuss reveal the identity of the eBay user in question so let's see.
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Sacked...
Full Member
π¨οΈ 7,978
ππ» 1,338
October 2007
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DALeast π¨π³ Wuhan, China β’ Street Art β’ Based in Cape Town, by Sacked... on Jul 4, 2013 21:42:17 GMT 1, Rom is Daleast manager... Do you have proof ?
Rom is Daleast manager... Do you have proof ?
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