Deleted
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Martin Whatson En Pointe Print Release, by Deleted on Nov 11, 2014 2:37:31 GMT 1, Brilliant! But also a big turning point in the discussion. Ridicule. Never good to hit that part. 
Brilliant! But also a big turning point in the discussion. Ridicule. Never good to hit that part. *I* am not so sure it's ridicule, but more satire... Does MW deserve it? Maybe??!!! |
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Deleted
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Martin Whatson En Pointe Print Release, by Deleted on Nov 11, 2014 2:39:39 GMT 1, No offence intended to the original photographer of the ballerina, the ballerina, the artist that drew the ballerina, Martin Whatson, Graffiti Prints, Military Today, the photographer that took the photo of the Chinook, the pilot, or anyone on here that has been upset or offended by the recent events on this thread. I love you all.
AWESOME! I am being entertained - while my four year old is being a PITA!
No offence intended to the original photographer of the ballerina, the ballerina, the artist that drew the ballerina, Martin Whatson, Graffiti Prints, Military Today, the photographer that took the photo of the Chinook, the pilot, or anyone on here that has been upset or offended by the recent events on this thread. I love you all. AWESOME! I am being entertained - while my four year old is being a PITA! |
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Dr Plip
Junior Member
๐จ๏ธ 7,043
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August 2011
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Martin Whatson En Pointe Print Release, by Dr Plip on Nov 11, 2014 2:46:33 GMT 1, Anyone else missing @badrobot?
Anyone else missing @badrobot?
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curiousgeorge
Junior Member
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March 2007
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Martin Whatson En Pointe Print Release, by curiousgeorge on Nov 11, 2014 3:17:58 GMT 1, my point being... this is street art. everyone (including me) needs to lighten up. and not just in regards to this
On the other hand some people just jump on the bandwagon to earn $$$
It'd be wise to research the artist in question and other artists along the same timeline
He could be the nicest guy in the world but he is a blatant biter.When called out on this he stormed off the forum, but it's still good enough for him to rinse people out of cold hard cash. Really took a stand with that one MW!!
The point is learn about street art and biting culture. For the record those that keep saying Banksy copied is not the same thing.He actually has something to say other than line my paypal account with funds.
my point being... this is street art. everyone (including me) needs to lighten up. and not just in regards to this The point is street art generally says something On the other hand some people just jump on the bandwagon to earn $$$ It'd be wise to research the artist in question and other artists along the same timeline He could be the nicest guy in the world but he is a blatant biter.When called out on this he stormed off the forum, but it's still good enough for him to rinse people out of cold hard cash. Really took a stand with that one MW!! The point is learn about street art and biting culture. For the record those that keep saying Banksy copied is not the same thing.He actually has something to say other than line my paypal account with funds. |
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Unica
Junior Member
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November 2013
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Martin Whatson En Pointe Print Release, by Unica on Nov 11, 2014 3:43:28 GMT 1, my point being... this is street art. everyone (including me) needs to lighten up. and not just in regards to this The point is street art generally says something On the other hand some people just jump on the bandwagon to earn $$$ It'd be wise to research the artist in question and other artists along the same timeline He could be the nicest guy in the world but he is a blatant biter.When called out on this he stormed off the forum, but it's still good enough for him to rinse people out of cold hard cash. Really took a stand with that one MW!! The point is learn about street art and biting culture. For the record those that keep saying Banksy copied is not the same thing.He actually has something to say other than line my paypal account with funds.
my point being... this is street art. everyone (including me) needs to lighten up. and not just in regards to this The point is street art generally says something On the other hand some people just jump on the bandwagon to earn $$$ It'd be wise to research the artist in question and other artists along the same timeline He could be the nicest guy in the world but he is a blatant biter.When called out on this he stormed off the forum, but it's still good enough for him to rinse people out of cold hard cash. Really took a stand with that one MW!! The point is learn about street art and biting culture. For the record those that keep saying Banksy copied is not the same thing.He actually has something to say other than line my paypal account with funds. Valid points, can certainly understand where your coming from. |
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Deleted
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January 1970
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Martin Whatson En Pointe Print Release, by Deleted on Nov 11, 2014 3:54:41 GMT 1, my point being... this is street art. everyone (including me) needs to lighten up. and not just in regards to this The point is street art generally says something On the other hand some people just jump on the bandwagon to earn $$$ It'd be wise to research the artist in question and other artists along the same timeline He could be the nicest guy in the world but he is a blatant biter.When called out on this he stormed off the forum, but it's still good enough for him to rinse people out of cold hard cash. Really took a stand with that one MW!! The point is learn about street art and biting culture. For the record those that keep saying Banksy copied is not the same thing.He actually has something to say other than line my paypal account with funds.
MW might have something to say as well, but in the case of the print in question, I don't know what it is, which is maybe why he's getting more crap here. I think people who like his work will be more forgiving of him "borrowing" than people who aren't.
me, I like many of MW's pieces (this one isn't my favorite, but I can see why others like it). Isn't Eternal Reflection nicked from someone else's work as well? People didn't raise as much of a stink for that one - my 2 cents is because people like that image more
so what did we learn? - using someone else's work is okay as long as you change it enough to make it "your own" ? this piece doesn't have a clear purpose to differentiate it enough from the source, so it's deemed copying/stealing? do people not like En Pointe because it doesn't have a clear statement, or does it not have a clear statement because people don't like it? would people be as worked up if they liked the print more? do people not like it because it's copied, or because it doesn't have a statement? both? neither?
or no one learned anything and this will keep happening again and again
clearly I have no answers haha
:drops mic... but then trips over the mic cord, falls off the stage, and breaks neck:
my point being... this is street art. everyone (including me) needs to lighten up. and not just in regards to this The point is street art generally says something On the other hand some people just jump on the bandwagon to earn $$$ It'd be wise to research the artist in question and other artists along the same timeline He could be the nicest guy in the world but he is a blatant biter.When called out on this he stormed off the forum, but it's still good enough for him to rinse people out of cold hard cash. Really took a stand with that one MW!! The point is learn about street art and biting culture. For the record those that keep saying Banksy copied is not the same thing.He actually has something to say other than line my paypal account with funds. yeah I agree - Banksy is definitely saying something with his work - his pieces have a clear, strong message. same with many other great artists MW might have something to say as well, but in the case of the print in question, I don't know what it is, which is maybe why he's getting more crap here. I think people who like his work will be more forgiving of him "borrowing" than people who aren't. me, I like many of MW's pieces (this one isn't my favorite, but I can see why others like it). Isn't Eternal Reflection nicked from someone else's work as well? People didn't raise as much of a stink for that one - my 2 cents is because people like that image more so what did we learn? - using someone else's work is okay as long as you change it enough to make it "your own" ? this piece doesn't have a clear purpose to differentiate it enough from the source, so it's deemed copying/stealing? do people not like En Pointe because it doesn't have a clear statement, or does it not have a clear statement because people don't like it? would people be as worked up if they liked the print more? do people not like it because it's copied, or because it doesn't have a statement? both? neither? or no one learned anything and this will keep happening again and again clearly I have no answers haha :drops mic... but then trips over the mic cord, falls off the stage, and breaks neck: |
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cmodart
Junior Member
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March 2014
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Martin Whatson En Pointe Print Release, by cmodart on Nov 11, 2014 4:13:08 GMT 1, He should at least buy the original painting from the artist since it's still available.
Then actually tag it... Then sell it and give the guy the money.
Problem solved.
He should at least buy the original painting from the artist since it's still available.
Then actually tag it... Then sell it and give the guy the money.
Problem solved.
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thisisanton
Junior Member
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November 2012
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Martin Whatson En Pointe Print Release, by thisisanton on Nov 11, 2014 5:53:30 GMT 1, This might be asking too much...What if MW just hired a model, took some pictures, then use livetrace on Illustrator? Or what if he was more creative and drew his own image? Not enough talent or just lazy?
This might be asking too much...What if MW just hired a model, took some pictures, then use livetrace on Illustrator? Or what if he was more creative and drew his own image? Not enough talent or just lazy?
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johnnyh
Junior Member
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March 2011
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Martin Whatson En Pointe Print Release, by johnnyh on Nov 11, 2014 6:05:45 GMT 1, Interesting albeit flawed reasoning. If Robbie Williams covers a somewhat obscure song that goes on to be #1 in most countries and he wins a Brit Award does that make it ok for him to pretend it's his and that he wrote it, after all it was the bigger hit. In my opinion anyone defending Whatson by way of Banksy doesn't get the very thing they are into. And as to Fairey he got into trouble not for using the image but his b*lls-less attempt to cover up his usage...for lying essentially. Peeps are down on Whatson because his work seems lazy and formulaic. His lazy theft adds to it.
but why do you think the use of someone else image. Eg not creating the image is different between Banksy and Whatson.?
him say being lazy and formulaic is irrelevant to the argument as it were that just about whether you like or not. Like you zi don't actually.
but I do fail to see the difference between him and Banksy in that they are using someone else's image. Aside from the fact that zi think Banksy's work is better but again that is irrelevant
Interesting albeit flawed reasoning. If Robbie Williams covers a somewhat obscure song that goes on to be #1 in most countries and he wins a Brit Award does that make it ok for him to pretend it's his and that he wrote it, after all it was the bigger hit. In my opinion anyone defending Whatson by way of Banksy doesn't get the very thing they are into. And as to Fairey he got into trouble not for using the image but his b*lls-less attempt to cover up his usage...for lying essentially. Peeps are down on Whatson because his work seems lazy and formulaic. His lazy theft adds to it. I understand the Robbie Williams bit. but why do you think the use of someone else image. Eg not creating the image is different between Banksy and Whatson.? him say being lazy and formulaic is irrelevant to the argument as it were that just about whether you like or not. Like you zi don't actually. but I do fail to see the difference between him and Banksy in that they are using someone else's image. Aside from the fact that zi think Banksy's work is better but again that is irrelevant |
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jlf
New Member
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July 2014
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Martin Whatson En Pointe Print Release, by jlf on Nov 11, 2014 9:14:33 GMT 1, Can any legal experts on here tell me whether this is 20% or 30% altered from the original?  I have a very good feeling about this. For xmas, the chopper will be carrying Santa Claus. For Valentine's Day, it'll be carrying a dildo. And for various rereleases, a piรฑata. Nothing wrong with that either, I like it. Let me know when when the release is.
Can any legal experts on here tell me whether this is 20% or 30% altered from the original? I have a very good feeling about this. For xmas, the chopper will be carrying Santa Claus. For Valentine's Day, it'll be carrying a dildo. And for various rereleases, a piรฑata. Nothing wrong with that either, I like it. Let me know when when the release is. The helicopter needs some hand finished tagging or splashed paint, but can I get on the pre-release list for a couple to flip on ebay. |
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Martin Whatson En Pointe Print Release, by Rouen Cathedral on Nov 11, 2014 12:27:17 GMT 1, hey guys... remember when Banksy did THIS? and we loved it 
Don't you think there is a difference?
Banksy ripped off probably the most famous painting in the history of art. No offense to Banksy but Vermeer and his girl are more well known and famous. I would say almost everyone could attribute that image to Vermeer.
In whatsons case he ripped off a small artist and work that no one knows about. He seemingly did so with hopes that no one would find out.
That is a HUGE difference.
hey guys... remember when Banksy did THIS? and we loved it Don't you think there is a difference? Banksy ripped off probably the most famous painting in the history of art. No offense to Banksy but Vermeer and his girl are more well known and famous. I would say almost everyone could attribute that image to Vermeer. In whatsons case he ripped off a small artist and work that no one knows about. He seemingly did so with hopes that no one would find out. That is a HUGE difference. |
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Deleted
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January 1970
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Martin Whatson En Pointe Print Release, by Deleted on Nov 11, 2014 12:58:14 GMT 1, hey guys... remember when Banksy did THIS? and we loved it Don't you think there is a difference? Banksy ripped off probably the most famous painting in the history of art. No offense to Banksy but Vermeer and his girl are more well known and famous. I would say almost everyone could attribute that image to Vermeer. In whatsons case he ripped off a small artist and work that no one knows about. He seemingly did so with hopes that no one would find out. That is a HUGE difference.
Yeah I think there's a huge difference as well. Just having a bit of fun 
hey guys... remember when Banksy did THIS? and we loved it Don't you think there is a difference? Banksy ripped off probably the most famous painting in the history of art. No offense to Banksy but Vermeer and his girl are more well known and famous. I would say almost everyone could attribute that image to Vermeer. In whatsons case he ripped off a small artist and work that no one knows about. He seemingly did so with hopes that no one would find out. That is a HUGE difference. Yeah I think there's a huge difference as well. Just having a bit of fun |
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Poster Bob
Junior Member
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September 2013
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Martin Whatson En Pointe Print Release, by Poster Bob on Nov 11, 2014 13:35:46 GMT 1, Public domain works are fair game. It would have been far better for Martin's career for him to have just done one show with graf tags using public domain works such as "Son of Man." It would have been superb.
Public domain works are fair game. It would have been far better for Martin's career for him to have just done one show with graf tags using public domain works such as "Son of Man." It would have been superb.
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Martin Whatson En Pointe Print Release, by Rouen Cathedral on Nov 11, 2014 13:50:06 GMT 1, Don't you think there is a difference? Banksy ripped off probably the most famous painting in the history of art. No offense to Banksy but Vermeer and his girl are more well known and famous. I would say almost everyone could attribute that image to Vermeer. In whatsons case he ripped off a small artist and work that no one knows about. He seemingly did so with hopes that no one would find out. That is a HUGE difference. Yeah I think there's a huge difference as well. Just having a bit of fun
Haha!
And just to add to the discussion and those saying it is precedent in art those well known famous works don't have copyrights. They are considered public domain. Here is an interesting article discussion images/reproductions of famous art work. It's a pretty good read and semi relevant.
m.huffpost.com/us/entry/1867076
Sadly Whatson didn't choose something in the public domain.
Don't you think there is a difference? Banksy ripped off probably the most famous painting in the history of art. No offense to Banksy but Vermeer and his girl are more well known and famous. I would say almost everyone could attribute that image to Vermeer. In whatsons case he ripped off a small artist and work that no one knows about. He seemingly did so with hopes that no one would find out. That is a HUGE difference. Yeah I think there's a huge difference as well. Just having a bit of fun Haha! And just to add to the discussion and those saying it is precedent in art those well known famous works don't have copyrights. They are considered public domain. Here is an interesting article discussion images/reproductions of famous art work. It's a pretty good read and semi relevant. m.huffpost.com/us/entry/1867076 Sadly Whatson didn't choose something in the public domain. |
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Fairxat
New Member
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May 2013
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Martin Whatson En Pointe Print Release, by Fairxat on Nov 11, 2014 13:54:45 GMT 1, A lot of speculating at the moment
May be gp can clear up ? As usually sets things straight or his point of vuew as represents artists and could have a knock on effect?
If the case of copyright , settle with the artist in question and move on , lesson learnt , before snowballs further into negativity.
Can be positive pr for both artists ? Both get exposure , I'm sure a few have checked back catalog of the other artist now .
Mentioned with this scene , artists usually anonymous on the streets but now commercial with monetary advantage sets a different picture and ins and outs of copyright infringement are scrutinised .
Prints will always sell as nice wall friendly pieces and new buyers not familiar with history won't care it's secondary prices will stall as too many releases and further specials editions always produced .
A lot of speculating at the moment
May be gp can clear up ? As usually sets things straight or his point of vuew as represents artists and could have a knock on effect?
If the case of copyright , settle with the artist in question and move on , lesson learnt , before snowballs further into negativity.
Can be positive pr for both artists ? Both get exposure , I'm sure a few have checked back catalog of the other artist now .
Mentioned with this scene , artists usually anonymous on the streets but now commercial with monetary advantage sets a different picture and ins and outs of copyright infringement are scrutinised .
Prints will always sell as nice wall friendly pieces and new buyers not familiar with history won't care it's secondary prices will stall as too many releases and further specials editions always produced .
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johnnyh
Junior Member
๐จ๏ธ 4,492
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March 2011
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Martin Whatson En Pointe Print Release, by johnnyh on Nov 11, 2014 14:29:56 GMT 1, Murrke03 that's a good read cheers. American law of course.
Likewise Tagz reckon it will be a while before Graff Prints say anything here. Pretty sure they will be looking for ways out. Regardless of what people say here it is by no means a clear cut case.
Jurisdiction will be important and which law. Eg UK law is slightly different to European copyright law. Martin is not based in UK so European law needs to be considered either now or in the future. There are exemptions from art copyright that include a Pastiche and appropriation either of which may create a get out or enough of one for a deal to be done. So legally still grey I would say.
So I would imagine it will be settled so probably a few letters and a few deals, few threats etc to be done before it is.
I doubt GP will say a word about it till the deal is done
Murrke03 that's a good read cheers. American law of course.
Likewise Tagz reckon it will be a while before Graff Prints say anything here. Pretty sure they will be looking for ways out. Regardless of what people say here it is by no means a clear cut case.
Jurisdiction will be important and which law. Eg UK law is slightly different to European copyright law. Martin is not based in UK so European law needs to be considered either now or in the future. There are exemptions from art copyright that include a Pastiche and appropriation either of which may create a get out or enough of one for a deal to be done. So legally still grey I would say.
So I would imagine it will be settled so probably a few letters and a few deals, few threats etc to be done before it is.
I doubt GP will say a word about it till the deal is done
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Martin Whatson En Pointe Print Release, by Rouen Cathedral on Nov 11, 2014 14:39:56 GMT 1, Murrke03 that's a good read cheers. American law of course. Likewise Tagz reckon it will be a while before Graff Prints say anything here. Pretty sure they will be looking for ways out. Regardless of what people say here it is by no means a clear cut case. Jurisdiction will be important and which law. Eg UK law is slightly different to European copyright law. Martin is not based in UK so European law needs to be considered either now or in the future. There are exemptions from art copyright that include a Pastiche and appropriation either of which may create a get out or enough of one for a deal to be done. So legally still grey I would say. So I would imagine it will be settled so probably a few letters and a few deals, few threats etc to be done before it is. I doubt GP will say a word about it till the deal is done
Yes sorry should have added that note about it being American law.
It seems this situation like many copyright issues is a grey area. Likely nothing will result.
But to me that doesn't really matter. Of course I wish the original artist protection but have seen many times where the big can take from the small on a technicality and this will probably be the same.
The thing it does for me is to expose whatson. Which is a real shame. I liked his images and really came close to acquiring this exact print. I never understood all the negative posts about him when I first joined here. That said this situation has tarnished my view and I can't really ever see myself supporting or defending his work.
Murrke03 that's a good read cheers. American law of course. Likewise Tagz reckon it will be a while before Graff Prints say anything here. Pretty sure they will be looking for ways out. Regardless of what people say here it is by no means a clear cut case. Jurisdiction will be important and which law. Eg UK law is slightly different to European copyright law. Martin is not based in UK so European law needs to be considered either now or in the future. There are exemptions from art copyright that include a Pastiche and appropriation either of which may create a get out or enough of one for a deal to be done. So legally still grey I would say. So I would imagine it will be settled so probably a few letters and a few deals, few threats etc to be done before it is. I doubt GP will say a word about it till the deal is done Yes sorry should have added that note about it being American law. It seems this situation like many copyright issues is a grey area. Likely nothing will result. But to me that doesn't really matter. Of course I wish the original artist protection but have seen many times where the big can take from the small on a technicality and this will probably be the same. The thing it does for me is to expose whatson. Which is a real shame. I liked his images and really came close to acquiring this exact print. I never understood all the negative posts about him when I first joined here. That said this situation has tarnished my view and I can't really ever see myself supporting or defending his work. |
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Deleted
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January 1970
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Martin Whatson En Pointe Print Release, by Deleted on Nov 11, 2014 14:48:52 GMT 1, hey guys... remember when Banksy did THIS? and we loved it
hey guys... remember when Banksy did THIS? and we loved it Has anyone set the alarm off yet? |
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Deleted
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January 1970
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Martin Whatson En Pointe Print Release, by Deleted on Nov 11, 2014 14:52:11 GMT 1, MW is worse that Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot, Jimmy Savile and Fred west put together.
MW is worse that Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot, Jimmy Savile and Fred west put together.
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Deleted
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January 1970
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Martin Whatson En Pointe Print Release, by Deleted on Nov 11, 2014 14:55:10 GMT 1, Gonna post this again. I love this doc about remixing art, music, movies and inventions. Definitely changed the way I look at creativity...and now back to my cave.
Gonna post this again. I love this doc about remixing art, music, movies and inventions. Definitely changed the way I look at creativity...and now back to my cave.
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Deleted
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January 1970
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Martin Whatson En Pointe Print Release, by Deleted on Nov 11, 2014 14:58:27 GMT 1, 
to this
to this
Korda=> Fitzpatrick=>Banksy
I am all in favour of a bit of theft, as long as it works innit
to this to this Korda=> Fitzpatrick=>Banksy I am all in favour of a bit of theft, as long as it works innit |
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Martin Whatson En Pointe Print Release, by Sturban Has Saggy Tits on Nov 11, 2014 15:02:41 GMT 1, MW is worse that Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot, Jimmy Savile and Fred west put together.
He's not the messiah, he's a very naughty boy!
MW is worse that Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot, Jimmy Savile and Fred west put together. He's not the messiah, he's a very naughty boy! |
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Deleted
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January 1970
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Martin Whatson En Pointe Print Release, by Deleted on Nov 11, 2014 15:03:23 GMT 1, Money ruins everything. No one would give a shit if we were talking about a wall. But since moneys been spent and moneys been made, it's become an issue
Money ruins everything. No one would give a shit if we were talking about a wall. But since moneys been spent and moneys been made, it's become an issue
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ABC
Artist
Junior Member
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August 2006
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Martin Whatson En Pointe Print Release, by ABC on Nov 11, 2014 15:10:58 GMT 1, That's why you buy what you like.
That's why you buy what you like.
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johnnyh
Junior Member
๐จ๏ธ 4,492
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March 2011
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Martin Whatson En Pointe Print Release, by johnnyh on Nov 11, 2014 15:20:41 GMT 1, Very well put Fed. May be a few jealous how many pics he sells as well.
Very well put Fed. May be a few jealous how many pics he sells as well.
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Deleted
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January 1970
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Martin Whatson En Pointe Print Release, by Deleted on Nov 11, 2014 15:21:56 GMT 1, I thin k this has been blown out of all proportion when there are much more important things going on in the world- Syria, ISIS, Ebola and generally acknowledged Saucepot* Violinist Vanessa Mae being banned from competitive sking for 4 years ( Phwoar etc)
www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/winter-sports/30005830
*This post may contain irony
I thin k this has been blown out of all proportion when there are much more important things going on in the world- Syria, ISIS, Ebola and generally acknowledged Saucepot* Violinist Vanessa Mae being banned from competitive sking for 4 years ( Phwoar etc) www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/winter-sports/30005830*This post may contain irony |
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Martin Whatson En Pointe Print Release, by Rouen Cathedral on Nov 11, 2014 15:27:13 GMT 1, That's why you buy what you like.
But to find out an image you like has been stolen by a lazy artist is a shame. No?
That's why you buy what you like. But to find out an image you like has been stolen by a lazy artist is a shame. No? |
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johnnyh
Junior Member
๐จ๏ธ 4,492
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March 2011
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Martin Whatson En Pointe Print Release, by johnnyh on Nov 11, 2014 15:50:33 GMT 1, So what stencil art have you bought where the stencil artist created the stencil...be interested to know?
So what stencil art have you bought where the stencil artist created the stencil...be interested to know?
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Deleted
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January 1970
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Martin Whatson En Pointe Print Release, by Deleted on Nov 11, 2014 15:52:37 GMT 1, That's why you buy what you like. But to find out an image you like has been stolen by a lazy artist is a shame. No?
When it comes to street art, borrowing (or stealing, depending on who you ask) is pretty much the norm for a lot of artists, so anytime I see an image like En Pointe, I just assume it's been nicked from somewhere else. Changing the image to make it your own is what's key here
Honestly, did anybody see this print and think the ballerina was drawn by hand? It didn't take someone pointing it out for me to see the image was taken from someone else
That's why you buy what you like. But to find out an image you like has been stolen by a lazy artist is a shame. No? When it comes to street art, borrowing (or stealing, depending on who you ask) is pretty much the norm for a lot of artists, so anytime I see an image like En Pointe, I just assume it's been nicked from somewhere else. Changing the image to make it your own is what's key here Honestly, did anybody see this print and think the ballerina was drawn by hand? It didn't take someone pointing it out for me to see the image was taken from someone else |
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