artlife11
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January 2020
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Bonhams • Art Auctions • London 🇬🇧, by artlife11 on Apr 28, 2021 16:43:27 GMT 1, I think the guys who have invested their entire pension in Banksy prints may need to put their retirement plans on hold.
They think it’s all over.....,,,,
I think the guys who have invested their entire pension in Banksy prints may need to put their retirement plans on hold. They think it’s all over.....,,,,
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ollie288
New Member
Posts • 40
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September 2019
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Bonhams • Art Auctions • London 🇬🇧, by ollie288 on Apr 28, 2021 16:46:15 GMT 1, Excuses started already - poor curation, bad catalogue, boring auctioneer...🤣🤣 Clutching straws here It's tanking alrighty
A big catalog, but the same auction house and auction category / catalog to when Bonhams sold multiple Banksys prints at all time highs 1-2 months ago...
Excuses started already - poor curation, bad catalogue, boring auctioneer...🤣🤣 Clutching straws here It's tanking alrighty A big catalog, but the same auction house and auction category / catalog to when Bonhams sold multiple Banksys prints at all time highs 1-2 months ago...
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Deleted
Posts • 0
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January 1970
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Bonhams • Art Auctions • London 🇬🇧, by Deleted on Apr 28, 2021 16:49:44 GMT 1, And around and around we go again
1. Its Bonhams
2. too many banksy sales in too short a time, supply and demand
3. anyone that has bought < 2020 is still smiling
4. This has happened before
5. It's boring
6. No one really knows
7. Even me
And around and around we go again
1. Its Bonhams
2. too many banksy sales in too short a time, supply and demand
3. anyone that has bought < 2020 is still smiling
4. This has happened before
5. It's boring
6. No one really knows
7. Even me
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LJCal
Junior Member
Posts • 2,926
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December 2019
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Bonhams • Art Auctions • London 🇬🇧, by LJCal on Apr 28, 2021 16:49:55 GMT 1, I think the guys who have invested their entire pension in Banksy prints may need to put their retirement plans on hold. They think it’s all over.....,,,, TBF I do think decent signed Banksy prints long term are worth having, just need to be bought at sensible prices when prices stabilise. I think the unsigned prints will take a very long time (if ever) to get to the crazy levels of back end of last year.
I think the guys who have invested their entire pension in Banksy prints may need to put their retirement plans on hold. They think it’s all over.....,,,, TBF I do think decent signed Banksy prints long term are worth having, just need to be bought at sensible prices when prices stabilise. I think the unsigned prints will take a very long time (if ever) to get to the crazy levels of back end of last year.
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Bonhams • Art Auctions • London 🇬🇧, by Arty Farty 15 on Apr 28, 2021 16:51:57 GMT 1, Terrible auction all round - even the signed Picasso’s and Hockneys shifting for sub £5k all in!
Terrible auction all round - even the signed Picasso’s and Hockneys shifting for sub £5k all in!
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JFCC
New Member
Posts • 390
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May 2020
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Bonhams • Art Auctions • London 🇬🇧, by JFCC on Apr 28, 2021 16:52:29 GMT 1, No not at all..there has been fairly universal criticism of Bonhams on this board over the last year.
They seem to have lost their way selling poor quality prints and ambiguous condition reports in dull and confused catalogues. They've always been somewhere to buy and never to sell at!
It's not a panic moment but a changing of the ownership profile that is exacerbated by over supply!
No not at all..there has been fairly universal criticism of Bonhams on this board over the last year.
They seem to have lost their way selling poor quality prints and ambiguous condition reports in dull and confused catalogues. They've always been somewhere to buy and never to sell at!
It's not a panic moment but a changing of the ownership profile that is exacerbated by over supply!
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Lazarus II
Junior Member
Posts • 1,803
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August 2019
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Bonhams • Art Auctions • London 🇬🇧, by Lazarus II on Apr 28, 2021 16:55:23 GMT 1, I'll feel better using my British Museum beermat for that very purpose once more.
I'll feel better using my British Museum beermat for that very purpose once more.
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Lazarus II
Junior Member
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August 2019
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Bonhams • Art Auctions • London 🇬🇧, by Lazarus II on Apr 28, 2021 16:56:08 GMT 1, Anyone privy to reasons why lots 154 and 157 were withdrawn? maybe the owner had the same thoughts as your goodself ?
Anyone privy to reasons why lots 154 and 157 were withdrawn? maybe the owner had the same thoughts as your goodself ?
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LJCal
Junior Member
Posts • 2,926
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December 2019
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Bonhams • Art Auctions • London 🇬🇧, by LJCal on Apr 28, 2021 17:19:40 GMT 1, In fairness this is an awful auction, lots of decent prints not selling or going cheap.
In fairness this is an awful auction, lots of decent prints not selling or going cheap.
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tab1
Full Member
Posts • 8,519
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September 2011
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Bonhams • Art Auctions • London 🇬🇧, by tab1 on Apr 28, 2021 17:24:30 GMT 1, They think it’s all over.....,,,, TBF I do think decent signed Banksy prints long term are worth having, just need to be bought at sensible prices when prices stabilise. I think the unsigned prints will take a very long time (if ever) to get to the crazy levels of back end of last year.
This was said 10 years ago and look at unsigned print values now. Truth is, no one knows how the market will turn out and especially with the pandemic looking likely for another two years what type effect it will have on all global markets, risky if buying now? Who knows?
They think it’s all over.....,,,, TBF I do think decent signed Banksy prints long term are worth having, just need to be bought at sensible prices when prices stabilise. I think the unsigned prints will take a very long time (if ever) to get to the crazy levels of back end of last year. This was said 10 years ago and look at unsigned print values now. Truth is, no one knows how the market will turn out and especially with the pandemic looking likely for another two years what type effect it will have on all global markets, risky if buying now? Who knows?
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LJCal
Junior Member
Posts • 2,926
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December 2019
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Bonhams • Art Auctions • London 🇬🇧, by LJCal on Apr 28, 2021 17:33:55 GMT 1, TBF I do think decent signed Banksy prints long term are worth having, just need to be bought at sensible prices when prices stabilise. I think the unsigned prints will take a very long time (if ever) to get to the crazy levels of back end of last year. This was said 10 years ago and look at unsigned print values now. Truth is, no one knows how the market will turn out and especially with the pandemic looking likely for another two years what type effect it will have on all global markets, risky if buying now? Who knows? No one knows anything for certain but I'm confident people will be dumping crap unsigned prints because they're crap and now their values are falling people will start using their eyes and not their ears to buy. There are also literally 1000s of them, if you scratch away the venner of scarcity with collectibles and fine art like what has happened in recent months the item will stuggle to recover it's desirability and value.
TBF I do think decent signed Banksy prints long term are worth having, just need to be bought at sensible prices when prices stabilise. I think the unsigned prints will take a very long time (if ever) to get to the crazy levels of back end of last year. This was said 10 years ago and look at unsigned print values now. Truth is, no one knows how the market will turn out and especially with the pandemic looking likely for another two years what type effect it will have on all global markets, risky if buying now? Who knows? No one knows anything for certain but I'm confident people will be dumping crap unsigned prints because they're crap and now their values are falling people will start using their eyes and not their ears to buy. There are also literally 1000s of them, if you scratch away the venner of scarcity with collectibles and fine art like what has happened in recent months the item will stuggle to recover it's desirability and value.
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Reader
Junior Member
Posts • 1,266
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June 2016
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Bonhams • Art Auctions • London 🇬🇧, by Reader on Apr 28, 2021 17:35:16 GMT 1, Excuses started already - poor curation, bad catalogue, boring auctioneer...🤣🤣 Clutching straws here It's tanking alrighty Do you know how many times we've heard that over the last 15 years, I first heard it when Grin Reaper was released at primary for £400 :-)
Excuses started already - poor curation, bad catalogue, boring auctioneer...🤣🤣 Clutching straws here It's tanking alrighty Do you know how many times we've heard that over the last 15 years, I first heard it when Grin Reaper was released at primary for £400 :-)
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George Poppit
Junior Member
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February 2021
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Bonhams • Art Auctions • London 🇬🇧, by George Poppit on Apr 28, 2021 17:41:46 GMT 1, Someone mentioned auctions being curated. No way this was curated.
Someone mentioned auctions being curated. No way this was curated.
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Bonhams • Art Auctions • London 🇬🇧, by Charlie Bronson on Apr 28, 2021 17:44:07 GMT 1, Nothing is tanking and B will never “tank”. A small, temporary correction perhaps, but the thought that B prices are going to fall off a cliff is stupid. Ain’t happening. People with pockets deeper than ours who have dropped multi millions into his work won’t allow it. Twenty years from now, half a million for one of his desirable prints will be a bargain. Too big to fail. Hold onto your prints.
Nothing is tanking and B will never “tank”. A small, temporary correction perhaps, but the thought that B prices are going to fall off a cliff is stupid. Ain’t happening. People with pockets deeper than ours who have dropped multi millions into his work won’t allow it. Twenty years from now, half a million for one of his desirable prints will be a bargain. Too big to fail. Hold onto your prints.
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Argiebaji
Junior Member
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June 2008
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Bonhams • Art Auctions • London 🇬🇧, by Argiebaji on Apr 28, 2021 17:46:59 GMT 1, Nothing is tanking and B will never “tank”. A small correction perhaps, but the thought that B prices are going to fall off a cliff is stupid. Ain’t happening. People with pockets deeper than ours who have dropped multi millions into his work won’t allow it. Twenty years from now, half a million for one of his desirable prints will be a bargain. Too big to fail. Hold onto your prints.
Agreed. Time to "Hold" people's.
Nothing is tanking and B will never “tank”. A small correction perhaps, but the thought that B prices are going to fall off a cliff is stupid. Ain’t happening. People with pockets deeper than ours who have dropped multi millions into his work won’t allow it. Twenty years from now, half a million for one of his desirable prints will be a bargain. Too big to fail. Hold onto your prints. Agreed. Time to "Hold" people's.
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Gunny
Junior Member
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July 2012
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Bonhams • Art Auctions • London 🇬🇧, by Gunny on Apr 28, 2021 17:47:45 GMT 1, 18 Months ago, most unsigned prints were 8-20k.................. still massively up on those times so i wouldn't be too worried if i were most people. Although, i must admit it would have been a good move to be selling last summer, might take a while to get back to that............
18 Months ago, most unsigned prints were 8-20k.................. still massively up on those times so i wouldn't be too worried if i were most people. Although, i must admit it would have been a good move to be selling last summer, might take a while to get back to that............
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Bonhams • Art Auctions • London 🇬🇧, by Dexter Bulldog on Apr 28, 2021 17:47:46 GMT 1, hirst valium is a $35k print now? i remember these being about 1/3 the price a few years ago
hirst valium is a $35k print now? i remember these being about 1/3 the price a few years ago
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orchid
Junior Member
Posts • 1,463
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May 2018
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Bonhams • Art Auctions • London 🇬🇧, by orchid on Apr 28, 2021 17:50:21 GMT 1, Nothing is tanking and B will never “tank”. A small, temporary correction perhaps, but the thought that B prices are going to fall off a cliff is stupid. Ain’t happening. People with pockets deeper than ours who have dropped multi millions into his work won’t allow it. Twenty years from now, half a million for one of his desirable prints will be a bargain. Too big to fail. Hold onto your prints.
30 odd % = small? The serious who dropped hundreds of thousands bought the canvases, which Will hold, they don't give a shit about unsigned memorabilia being bought by gamblers.
Nothing is tanking and B will never “tank”. A small, temporary correction perhaps, but the thought that B prices are going to fall off a cliff is stupid. Ain’t happening. People with pockets deeper than ours who have dropped multi millions into his work won’t allow it. Twenty years from now, half a million for one of his desirable prints will be a bargain. Too big to fail. Hold onto your prints. 30 odd % = small? The serious who dropped hundreds of thousands bought the canvases, which Will hold, they don't give a shit about unsigned memorabilia being bought by gamblers.
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Nuno
Junior Member
Posts • 1,095
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November 2007
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Bonhams • Art Auctions • London 🇬🇧, by Nuno on Apr 28, 2021 17:51:16 GMT 1, This was said 10 years ago and look at unsigned print values now. Truth is, no one knows how the market will turn out and especially with the pandemic looking likely for another two years what type effect it will have on all global markets, risky if buying now? Who knows? No one knows anything for certain but I'm confident people will be dumping crap unsigned prints because they're crap and now their values are falling people will start using their eyes and not their ears to buy. There are also literally 1000s of them, if you scratch away the venner of scarcity with collectibles and fine art like what has happened in recent months the item will stuggle to recover it's desirability and value.
Again, this has all been said for years. ‘Unsigned prints will be worthless’, ‘it’s a bubble’, ‘what if Banksy is Neil Buchanan’.
If you’ve bought a print as an investment, long term i believe it will prove to be a decent decision - each auction result just becomes noise. it’s the long term trends that are important.
If you’ve bought prints to enjoy daily then you’re already winning.
*Not investment advice*
This was said 10 years ago and look at unsigned print values now. Truth is, no one knows how the market will turn out and especially with the pandemic looking likely for another two years what type effect it will have on all global markets, risky if buying now? Who knows? No one knows anything for certain but I'm confident people will be dumping crap unsigned prints because they're crap and now their values are falling people will start using their eyes and not their ears to buy. There are also literally 1000s of them, if you scratch away the venner of scarcity with collectibles and fine art like what has happened in recent months the item will stuggle to recover it's desirability and value. Again, this has all been said for years. ‘Unsigned prints will be worthless’, ‘it’s a bubble’, ‘what if Banksy is Neil Buchanan’. If you’ve bought a print as an investment, long term i believe it will prove to be a decent decision - each auction result just becomes noise. it’s the long term trends that are important. If you’ve bought prints to enjoy daily then you’re already winning. *Not investment advice*
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Deleted
Posts • 0
Likes •
January 1970
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Bonhams • Art Auctions • London 🇬🇧, by Deleted on Apr 28, 2021 17:52:49 GMT 1, Nothing is tanking and B will never “tank”. A small, temporary correction perhaps, but the thought that B prices are going to fall off a cliff is stupid. Ain’t happening. People with pockets deeper than ours who have dropped multi millions into his work won’t allow it. Twenty years from now, half a million for one of his desirable prints will be a bargain. Too big to fail. Hold onto your prints. 30 odd % = small? The serious who dropped hundreds of thousands bought the canvases, which Will hold, they don't give a shit about unsigned memorabilia being bought by gamblers.
This.
Nothing is tanking and B will never “tank”. A small, temporary correction perhaps, but the thought that B prices are going to fall off a cliff is stupid. Ain’t happening. People with pockets deeper than ours who have dropped multi millions into his work won’t allow it. Twenty years from now, half a million for one of his desirable prints will be a bargain. Too big to fail. Hold onto your prints. 30 odd % = small? The serious who dropped hundreds of thousands bought the canvases, which Will hold, they don't give a shit about unsigned memorabilia being bought by gamblers. This.
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Bonhams • Art Auctions • London 🇬🇧, by Charlie Bronson on Apr 28, 2021 17:53:40 GMT 1, Nothing is tanking and B will never “tank”. A small, temporary correction perhaps, but the thought that B prices are going to fall off a cliff is stupid. Ain’t happening. People with pockets deeper than ours who have dropped multi millions into his work won’t allow it. Twenty years from now, half a million for one of his desirable prints will be a bargain. Too big to fail. Hold onto your prints. 30 odd % = small? The serious who dropped hundreds of thousands bought the canvases, which Will hold, they don't give a shit about unsigned memorabilia being bought by gamblers.
Who’s talking about unsigned memorabilia? I don’t buy into that garbage. I’m talking about his prints.
Nothing is tanking and B will never “tank”. A small, temporary correction perhaps, but the thought that B prices are going to fall off a cliff is stupid. Ain’t happening. People with pockets deeper than ours who have dropped multi millions into his work won’t allow it. Twenty years from now, half a million for one of his desirable prints will be a bargain. Too big to fail. Hold onto your prints. 30 odd % = small? The serious who dropped hundreds of thousands bought the canvases, which Will hold, they don't give a shit about unsigned memorabilia being bought by gamblers. Who’s talking about unsigned memorabilia? I don’t buy into that garbage. I’m talking about his prints.
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Deleted
Posts • 0
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January 1970
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Bonhams • Art Auctions • London 🇬🇧, by Deleted on Apr 28, 2021 17:57:22 GMT 1, 30 odd % = small? The serious who dropped hundreds of thousands bought the canvases, which Will hold, they don't give a shit about unsigned memorabilia being bought by gamblers. Who’s talking about unsigned memorabilia? I don’t buy into that garbage. I’m talking about his prints.
He means unsigned prints.
Let’s face it , if you spent £40k on an unsigned toxic Mary / napalm , you can probably halve that. Will it get back to £40k, probably but we are talking years.
30 odd % = small? The serious who dropped hundreds of thousands bought the canvases, which Will hold, they don't give a shit about unsigned memorabilia being bought by gamblers. Who’s talking about unsigned memorabilia? I don’t buy into that garbage. I’m talking about his prints. He means unsigned prints. Let’s face it , if you spent £40k on an unsigned toxic Mary / napalm , you can probably halve that. Will it get back to £40k, probably but we are talking years.
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Bonhams • Art Auctions • London 🇬🇧, by Charlie Bronson on Apr 28, 2021 18:00:52 GMT 1, Who’s talking about unsigned memorabilia? I don’t buy into that garbage. I’m talking about his prints. He means unsigned prints. Let’s face it , if you spent £40k on an unsigned toxic Mary / napalm , you can probably halve that. Will it get back to £40k, probably but we are talking years.
Got it. Official prints are hardly memorabilia, signed or not. Imho the B investment game is a marathon, not a sprint. An auction, or several, with bad results, isn’t indicative of the long term ROI imho.
Who’s talking about unsigned memorabilia? I don’t buy into that garbage. I’m talking about his prints. He means unsigned prints. Let’s face it , if you spent £40k on an unsigned toxic Mary / napalm , you can probably halve that. Will it get back to £40k, probably but we are talking years. Got it. Official prints are hardly memorabilia, signed or not. Imho the B investment game is a marathon, not a sprint. An auction, or several, with bad results, isn’t indicative of the long term ROI imho.
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orchid
Junior Member
Posts • 1,463
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May 2018
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Bonhams • Art Auctions • London 🇬🇧, by orchid on Apr 28, 2021 18:38:53 GMT 1, Just two pages? We'd be on to 22 pages if it was a record breaker. *Tumble weeds*
Just two pages? We'd be on to 22 pages if it was a record breaker. *Tumble weeds*
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Bonhams • Art Auctions • London 🇬🇧, by John The Badgers on Apr 28, 2021 18:41:20 GMT 1, Cant for the life of me fathom the Bonham's site, can someone list the results?
Cant for the life of me fathom the Bonham's site, can someone list the results?
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fusion0001
New Member
Posts • 146
Likes • 415
November 2019
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Bonhams • Art Auctions • London 🇬🇧, by fusion0001 on Apr 28, 2021 18:43:34 GMT 1, I updated overall numbers and all-in results on banksy-value. Overall market this month is down around 10%, while unsigned a bit more than 20%. Not a great day to be holding lots of unsigned.
I rarely comment the value discussion here more subjectively, but my 2 cents is that there is really not much difference in long-term return between holding signed and unsigned prints of same edition. The value of signed vs unsigned of same edition have since forever been between linked by 2.0x - 2.5x multiple and I hardly see a reason for this multiple to be broken. Over the short-term however we have seen in 2020 the multiple go down to 1.5x and I think everyone who has looked at the market for long enough had a good gut-feeling that this will correct back eventually, which is happening now with the overall market correction in parallel. Getting back to a historical ratio of closer to 2.0-2.5 would not be surprising (run-of-the-mill signed prints at 50-60k and unsigned of same edition at 20-25k).
The above of course does not hold for the more "special" pieces that are more disconnected from the rest of the market and hence more resilient to these kind of situations.
I updated overall numbers and all-in results on banksy-value. Overall market this month is down around 10%, while unsigned a bit more than 20%. Not a great day to be holding lots of unsigned.
I rarely comment the value discussion here more subjectively, but my 2 cents is that there is really not much difference in long-term return between holding signed and unsigned prints of same edition. The value of signed vs unsigned of same edition have since forever been between linked by 2.0x - 2.5x multiple and I hardly see a reason for this multiple to be broken. Over the short-term however we have seen in 2020 the multiple go down to 1.5x and I think everyone who has looked at the market for long enough had a good gut-feeling that this will correct back eventually, which is happening now with the overall market correction in parallel. Getting back to a historical ratio of closer to 2.0-2.5 would not be surprising (run-of-the-mill signed prints at 50-60k and unsigned of same edition at 20-25k).
The above of course does not hold for the more "special" pieces that are more disconnected from the rest of the market and hence more resilient to these kind of situations.
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Bonhams • Art Auctions • London 🇬🇧, by John The Badgers on Apr 28, 2021 18:53:22 GMT 1, Thank you fusion0001.
Appreciate the comments.
Excuse my ignorance everyone, but when a lot is 'passed' in an auction, what does that mean?
Thank you fusion0001.
Appreciate the comments.
Excuse my ignorance everyone, but when a lot is 'passed' in an auction, what does that mean?
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als33
New Member
Posts • 70
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March 2011
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Bonhams • Art Auctions • London 🇬🇧, by als33 on Apr 28, 2021 19:00:07 GMT 1, Thank you fusion0001. Appreciate the comments. Excuse my ignorance everyone, but when a lot is 'passed' in an auction, what does that mean? It means the reserve wasn't met and the item didn't sell.
Thank you fusion0001. Appreciate the comments. Excuse my ignorance everyone, but when a lot is 'passed' in an auction, what does that mean? It means the reserve wasn't met and the item didn't sell.
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startimeash
Junior Member
Posts • 1,288
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March 2019
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Bonhams • Art Auctions • London 🇬🇧, by startimeash on Apr 28, 2021 19:00:37 GMT 1, Thank you fusion0001. Appreciate the comments. Excuse my ignorance everyone, but when a lot is 'passed' in an auction, what does that mean? It means that the seller had specified a minimum price that they'd accept, which is the reserve. If the bids don't make it to that level then it is not sold, so "passed"
Thank you fusion0001. Appreciate the comments. Excuse my ignorance everyone, but when a lot is 'passed' in an auction, what does that mean? It means that the seller had specified a minimum price that they'd accept, which is the reserve. If the bids don't make it to that level then it is not sold, so "passed"
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Bonhams • Art Auctions • London 🇬🇧, by John The Badgers on Apr 28, 2021 19:08:20 GMT 1, Thanks Als33 and startimeash, didn't realise you could specify a 'minimum value' at auction.
I tried to follow the auction as I was interested in the TW. I have one, and wanted an idea for my insurance as I have to specify value on the policy.
Can anyone tell me what it got too via the bidding?
Thanks Als33 and startimeash, didn't realise you could specify a 'minimum value' at auction.
I tried to follow the auction as I was interested in the TW. I have one, and wanted an idea for my insurance as I have to specify value on the policy.
Can anyone tell me what it got too via the bidding?
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