BONGO
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February 2007
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Bonhams โข Art Auctions โข London ๐ฌ๐ง, by BONGO on Feb 13, 2008 21:17:47 GMT 1, All of the the prices paid for unsigned prints last auction were crazy, nowhere near their true market value.
WHAT IS TRUE MARKET VALUE
All of the the prices paid for unsigned prints last auction were crazy, nowhere near their true market value. WHAT IS TRUE MARKET VALUE |
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BONGO
Junior Member
๐จ๏ธ 1,004
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February 2007
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Bonhams โข Art Auctions โข London ๐ฌ๐ง, by BONGO on Feb 13, 2008 21:25:25 GMT 1, People pay more from galleries/auction houses for a plethora of reasons: - strong provenance/authenticity credibility - some people like the glamor of saying they bought something from auction/gallery - they value their time more than trying to get a 'deal' somewhere else - they're rich and can throw what many would consider big money around easily
BONGO AGREES
GOING TO AN AUCTION VERSUS BUYING FROM EBAY IS THE SAME AS GOING TO THE MONTE CARLO CASINO VERSUS PLAYING ONLINE IN YOUR FETID BEDROOM
A MORE APT EXAMPLE IS BUYING POL ROGER FORM THE SUPERMARKET FOR ยฃ40 AND DRINKING IT IN THE CAR PARK OUTIDE VERSUS GOING TO CHYNAWHYTE AND SPENDING ยฃ400 A BOTTLE
THE END RESULT IS THE SAME, BUT THE ROAD TO THAT PLACE IS AN ENTIRELY DIFFERENT JOURNEY
AUCTION HOUSES OF NOTE WORK IN A RARIFIED ATMSOPHERE WHERE IN SOME WAYS, THE MONEY IS A SECONDARY ISSUE, BUT BONGO BELIEVES PHYSICAL PRESENCE AT SUCH AN EVENT IS A STATEMENT IN ITSELF FOR MANY
People pay more from galleries/auction houses for a plethora of reasons: - strong provenance/authenticity credibility - some people like the glamor of saying they bought something from auction/gallery - they value their time more than trying to get a 'deal' somewhere else - they're rich and can throw what many would consider big money around easily BONGO AGREES GOING TO AN AUCTION VERSUS BUYING FROM EBAY IS THE SAME AS GOING TO THE MONTE CARLO CASINO VERSUS PLAYING ONLINE IN YOUR FETID BEDROOM A MORE APT EXAMPLE IS BUYING POL ROGER FORM THE SUPERMARKET FOR ยฃ40 AND DRINKING IT IN THE CAR PARK OUTIDE VERSUS GOING TO CHYNAWHYTE AND SPENDING ยฃ400 A BOTTLE THE END RESULT IS THE SAME, BUT THE ROAD TO THAT PLACE IS AN ENTIRELY DIFFERENT JOURNEY AUCTION HOUSES OF NOTE WORK IN A RARIFIED ATMSOPHERE WHERE IN SOME WAYS, THE MONEY IS A SECONDARY ISSUE, BUT BONGO BELIEVES PHYSICAL PRESENCE AT SUCH AN EVENT IS A STATEMENT IN ITSELF FOR MANY |
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qwertystar
New Member
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December 2006
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Bonhams โข Art Auctions โข London ๐ฌ๐ง, by qwertystar on Feb 13, 2008 21:30:17 GMT 1, People pay more from galleries/auction houses for a plethora of reasons: - strong provenance/authenticity credibility - some people like the glamor of saying they bought something from auction/gallery - they value their time more than trying to get a 'deal' somewhere else - they're rich and can throw what many would consider big money around easily BONGO AGREES GOING TO AN AUCTION VERSUS BUYING FROM EBAY IS THE SAME AS GOING TO THE MONTE CARLO CASINO VERSUS PLAYING ONLINE IN YOUR FETID BEDROOM A MORE APT EXAMPLE IS BUYING POL ROGER FORM THE SUPERMARKET FOR ยฃ40 AND DRINKING IT IN THE CAR PARK OUTIDE VERSUS GOING TO CHYNAWHYTE AND SPENDING ยฃ400 A BOTTLE THE END RESULT IS THE SAME, BUT THE ROAD TO THAT PLACE IS AN ENTIRELY DIFFERENT JOURNEY AUCTION HOUSES OF NOTE WORK IN A RARIFIED ATMSOPHERE WHERE IN SOME WAYS, THE MONEY IS A SECONDARY ISSUE, BUT BONGO BELIEVES PHYSICAL PRESENCE AT SUCH AN EVENT IS A STATEMENT IN ITSELF FOR MANY
The voice of reason...
People pay more from galleries/auction houses for a plethora of reasons: - strong provenance/authenticity credibility - some people like the glamor of saying they bought something from auction/gallery - they value their time more than trying to get a 'deal' somewhere else - they're rich and can throw what many would consider big money around easily BONGO AGREES GOING TO AN AUCTION VERSUS BUYING FROM EBAY IS THE SAME AS GOING TO THE MONTE CARLO CASINO VERSUS PLAYING ONLINE IN YOUR FETID BEDROOM A MORE APT EXAMPLE IS BUYING POL ROGER FORM THE SUPERMARKET FOR ยฃ40 AND DRINKING IT IN THE CAR PARK OUTIDE VERSUS GOING TO CHYNAWHYTE AND SPENDING ยฃ400 A BOTTLE THE END RESULT IS THE SAME, BUT THE ROAD TO THAT PLACE IS AN ENTIRELY DIFFERENT JOURNEY AUCTION HOUSES OF NOTE WORK IN A RARIFIED ATMSOPHERE WHERE IN SOME WAYS, THE MONEY IS A SECONDARY ISSUE, BUT BONGO BELIEVES PHYSICAL PRESENCE AT SUCH AN EVENT IS A STATEMENT IN ITSELF FOR MANY The voice of reason... |
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Bonhams โข Art Auctions โข London ๐ฌ๐ง, by chleseaboy on Feb 13, 2008 21:49:47 GMT 1, When is the next auction? With all the chat it could end up a 3 day affair. October. They said if you have anything special then take it in to show them
Not October... I've been in touch with Bonhams and they are collecting pieces for an April auction in Knightsbridge(contemporary art, not 'urban')! Mine won't be there...15% comission!?!?!
When is the next auction? With all the chat it could end up a 3 day affair. October. They said if you have anything special then take it in to show them Not October... I've been in touch with Bonhams and they are collecting pieces for an April auction in Knightsbridge(contemporary art, not 'urban')! Mine won't be there...15% comission!?!?! |
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jamesreeve5
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September 2012
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Bonhams โข Art Auctions โข London ๐ฌ๐ง, by jamesreeve5 on Feb 13, 2008 22:11:49 GMT 1, Its a good thing. At least the genuine fans can still access the unsigneds (without them getting swept away to richer waters).
Didn't realize the amount of money someone has dictates their sincerity as a fan.
Its a good thing. At least the genuine fans can still access the unsigneds (without them getting swept away to richer waters). Didn't realize the amount of money someone has dictates their sincerity as a fan. |
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Bonhams โข Art Auctions โข London ๐ฌ๐ง, by slowmo on Feb 13, 2008 22:53:21 GMT 1, I'm beginning to feel ignored on this forum. Can anyone let me know about print editions pre Banksy, which were unsigned but endorsed by the artist, alongside more expensive signed versions?
The idea that signed Bankys prints are worth more seems strange, illusionary if we cannot give examples in history where the same has happened before? Maybe a print value is a print value irrespective of signed or not? Did Banksy break new ground or are their examples to draw from in older artists print editions?
I'm beginning to feel ignored on this forum. Can anyone let me know about print editions pre Banksy, which were unsigned but endorsed by the artist, alongside more expensive signed versions?
The idea that signed Bankys prints are worth more seems strange, illusionary if we cannot give examples in history where the same has happened before? Maybe a print value is a print value irrespective of signed or not? Did Banksy break new ground or are their examples to draw from in older artists print editions?
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jamesreeve5
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September 2012
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Bonhams โข Art Auctions โข London ๐ฌ๐ง, by jamesreeve5 on Feb 13, 2008 23:06:30 GMT 1, I'm beginning to feel ignored on this forum. Can anyone let me know about print editions pre Banksy, which were unsigned but endorsed by the artist, alongside more expensive signed versions? The idea that signed Bankys prints are worth more seems strange, illusionary if we cannot give examples in history where the same has happened before? Maybe a print value is a print value irrespective of signed or not? Did Banksy break new ground or are their examples to draw from in older artists print editions?
That might be something to call and ask the auction house about...
I'm beginning to feel ignored on this forum. Can anyone let me know about print editions pre Banksy, which were unsigned but endorsed by the artist, alongside more expensive signed versions? The idea that signed Bankys prints are worth more seems strange, illusionary if we cannot give examples in history where the same has happened before? Maybe a print value is a print value irrespective of signed or not? Did Banksy break new ground or are their examples to draw from in older artists print editions? That might be something to call and ask the auction house about... |
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jamesreeve5
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September 2012
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Bonhams โข Art Auctions โข London ๐ฌ๐ง, by jamesreeve5 on Feb 13, 2008 23:10:56 GMT 1, It is not however, something that was started by Banksy.
It is not however, something that was started by Banksy.
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BME
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Bonhams โข Art Auctions โข London ๐ฌ๐ง, by BME on Feb 13, 2008 23:17:53 GMT 1,
No One bought an US thinking it was Signed. Thats the value of the US. The big spenders dont bother with e bay. The only big spenders on e bay are the little galleries. They pay ยฃ1500-ยฃ2000 and they have their big spending clients waiting to pay ยฃ4000-ยฃ8000 for the unsigned prints. And even more for the signed. From WK: It was not clearly pointed out in the catalogue they were unsigned (nor on the website) a mistake could easily have been made and you cannot now value unsigned prints at these prices
Auctions require more than one bidder. There were, presumably, under bidders on each piece who were willing to pay almost as much. Were they also under the impression that the prints were signed?
I think that there are a number of collectors who are prepared to pay these sort of prices. Its not representative of the broader market; but rather a section of it. Ebay is never going to deliver this kind of money but then ebay doesn't offer the certainty, convenience or prestige of Bonhams.
No One bought an US thinking it was Signed. Thats the value of the US. The big spenders dont bother with e bay. The only big spenders on e bay are the little galleries. They pay ยฃ1500-ยฃ2000 and they have their big spending clients waiting to pay ยฃ4000-ยฃ8000 for the unsigned prints. And even more for the signed. From WK: It was not clearly pointed out in the catalogue they were unsigned (nor on the website) a mistake could easily have been made and you cannot now value unsigned prints at these prices Auctions require more than one bidder. There were, presumably, under bidders on each piece who were willing to pay almost as much. Were they also under the impression that the prints were signed? I think that there are a number of collectors who are prepared to pay these sort of prices. Its not representative of the broader market; but rather a section of it. Ebay is never going to deliver this kind of money but then ebay doesn't offer the certainty, convenience or prestige of Bonhams. |
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Bonhams โข Art Auctions โข London ๐ฌ๐ง, by Guest on Feb 13, 2008 23:34:56 GMT 1, All of the the prices paid for unsigned prints last auction were crazy, nowhere near their true market value. WHAT IS TRUE MARKET VALUE
I would say true market value is the average price paid, including ebay galleries and auction houses. one off prices from auction houses do not give a fair market value price.
All of the the prices paid for unsigned prints last auction were crazy, nowhere near their true market value. WHAT IS TRUE MARKET VALUE I would say true market value is the average price paid, including ebay galleries and auction houses. one off prices from auction houses do not give a fair market value price. |
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Bonhams โข Art Auctions โข London ๐ฌ๐ง, by slowmo on Feb 13, 2008 23:52:14 GMT 1, Well I think your right in that this maybe new ground but put it this way which would you rather have given a choice signed vs not thats pretty simple as it is a personal touch by the artists also adds a bit of legitimacy IMO. Also with most Banksy editions the signed runs are smaller although the same image in most cases. So is the hand touching worth more Bast and Faile think so... ok ok not quite the same but still.  there you go slowmo my opinion not ignoring you 
You're not understanding what I am saying. I need to know of artists before who have given blessing to two tiered print editions. I cannot think of any.
More than willing to accept that people may have, but want corroboration. Otherwise, for me a signed is worth as much as an unsigned, both have the artists blessing, both have the same image. Why would signing it make it worth more? The artist approved both?
Not sure if I am explaining myself well, but the idea of hand finishing by writing your name, meaning it is worth more (when in fact you have exactly the same image) seems slightly ludicrous. I genuinely never thought of this as a factor until this thread started, as I had never looked at artists pre Banksy to see if they had unsigned editions that were authorised as the artists work but were worth less because they were not signed. Can someone give me examples?
Well I think your right in that this maybe new ground but put it this way which would you rather have given a choice signed vs not thats pretty simple as it is a personal touch by the artists also adds a bit of legitimacy IMO. Also with most Banksy editions the signed runs are smaller although the same image in most cases. So is the hand touching worth more Bast and Faile think so... ok ok not quite the same but still. there you go slowmo my opinion not ignoring you You're not understanding what I am saying. I need to know of artists before who have given blessing to two tiered print editions. I cannot think of any. More than willing to accept that people may have, but want corroboration. Otherwise, for me a signed is worth as much as an unsigned, both have the artists blessing, both have the same image. Why would signing it make it worth more? The artist approved both? Not sure if I am explaining myself well, but the idea of hand finishing by writing your name, meaning it is worth more (when in fact you have exactly the same image) seems slightly ludicrous. I genuinely never thought of this as a factor until this thread started, as I had never looked at artists pre Banksy to see if they had unsigned editions that were authorised as the artists work but were worth less because they were not signed. Can someone give me examples? |
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T-Bro
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Bonhams โข Art Auctions โข London ๐ฌ๐ง, by T-Bro on Feb 14, 2008 0:04:43 GMT 1, Andy Warhol - theres one!
Andy Warhol - theres one!
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Bonhams โข Art Auctions โข London ๐ฌ๐ง, by slowmo on Feb 14, 2008 0:06:38 GMT 1, Which editions? Not sunday B morning I hope?
Which editions? Not sunday B morning I hope?
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Bonhams โข Art Auctions โข London ๐ฌ๐ง, by slowmo on Feb 14, 2008 0:12:11 GMT 1, Actually you're right,
Published Prints (Section II) is divided into three parts: edition prints (II), unique edition prints (IIA), and trial proof edition prints (IIB). Published prints catalogues works released in limited editions which are usually signed and numbered. Prints completed but unsigned at the time of Warholโs death bear a stamped certificate of authenticity on the verso with a signature of the executor of the Estate of Andy Warhol, the publisher, and the printer. These include Wayne Gretzky (#99) trial proof edition prints (IIB.306), Frolunda Hockey Player trial proof edition prints (II.B 366), Beethoven (II.390-393), Hans Christian Andersen (II.394-401), and Moonwalk (II.404-405). The Shadow (II.269A), Red Lenin (II.403), and Camouflage (II.406-413) are only signed by the executor of The Estate of Andy Warhol. All are numbered. There are also signed or signed and dedicated prints outside of the edition.
So if you don't have any of those, all the rest should be signed or you have a back door job (there are millions)
Actually you're right,
Published Prints (Section II) is divided into three parts: edition prints (II), unique edition prints (IIA), and trial proof edition prints (IIB). Published prints catalogues works released in limited editions which are usually signed and numbered. Prints completed but unsigned at the time of Warholโs death bear a stamped certificate of authenticity on the verso with a signature of the executor of the Estate of Andy Warhol, the publisher, and the printer. These include Wayne Gretzky (#99) trial proof edition prints (IIB.306), Frolunda Hockey Player trial proof edition prints (II.B 366), Beethoven (II.390-393), Hans Christian Andersen (II.394-401), and Moonwalk (II.404-405). The Shadow (II.269A), Red Lenin (II.403), and Camouflage (II.406-413) are only signed by the executor of The Estate of Andy Warhol. All are numbered. There are also signed or signed and dedicated prints outside of the edition.
So if you don't have any of those, all the rest should be signed or you have a back door job (there are millions)
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Bonhams โข Art Auctions โข London ๐ฌ๐ง, by slowmo on Feb 14, 2008 0:14:08 GMT 1, Here's more
Banana (II.10), SAS Passenger Ticket (II.20), Marcia Weisman (II.122), and Sachiko (II.154-155) are signed and unnumbered. Marilyn Monroe I Love Your Kiss Forever Forever (II.5), Purple Cows (II.17A), Flash-November 22, 1963 (II.32-42) are signed, and the number is on the colophon page. Cooking Pot (II.1) and Kiss (II.8) are signed with an embossed signature, Portraits of the Artists (II.17) with an incised signature, Jacqueline Kennedy (Jackie I, Jackie II, Jackie III)(II.13, II.14, II.15), Purple Cows (II.17A), and Paris Review (II.18) with a rubber-stamped signature. All are numbered.
Point taken printsonline, Warhol was up for it. Anyone other than Warhol?
Here's more
Banana (II.10), SAS Passenger Ticket (II.20), Marcia Weisman (II.122), and Sachiko (II.154-155) are signed and unnumbered. Marilyn Monroe I Love Your Kiss Forever Forever (II.5), Purple Cows (II.17A), Flash-November 22, 1963 (II.32-42) are signed, and the number is on the colophon page. Cooking Pot (II.1) and Kiss (II.8) are signed with an embossed signature, Portraits of the Artists (II.17) with an incised signature, Jacqueline Kennedy (Jackie I, Jackie II, Jackie III)(II.13, II.14, II.15), Purple Cows (II.17A), and Paris Review (II.18) with a rubber-stamped signature. All are numbered.
Point taken printsonline, Warhol was up for it. Anyone other than Warhol?
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Bonhams โข Art Auctions โข London ๐ฌ๐ง, by leumasdarnley on Feb 14, 2008 1:03:48 GMT 1, Well I think your right in that this maybe new ground but put it this way which would you rather have given a choice signed vs not thats pretty simple as it is a personal touch by the artists also adds a bit of legitimacy IMO. Also with most Banksy editions the signed runs are smaller although the same image in most cases. So is the hand touching worth more Bast and Faile think so... ok ok not quite the same but still. there you go slowmo my opinion not ignoring you You're not understanding what I am saying. I need to know of artists before who have given blessing to two tiered print editions. I cannot think of any. More than willing to accept that people may have, but want corroboration. Otherwise, for me a signed is worth as much as an unsigned, both have the artists blessing, both have the same image. Why would signing it make it worth more? The artist approved both? Not sure if I am explaining myself well, but the idea of hand finishing by writing your name, meaning it is worth more (when in fact you have exactly the same image) seems slightly ludicrous. I genuinely never thought of this as a factor until this thread started, as I had never looked at artists pre Banksy to see if they had unsigned editions that were authorised as the artists work but were worth less because they were not signed. Can someone give me examples?
Signed print being worth more than an unsigned for some reason does not seem the slightest bit rediculous to me. IMO the only people making these arguements that I am hearing regarding unsigned prints being worth more are people that must have a personal stake. This thought was considered semi insane prior to the auction now people are jumping on left and right. These are my opnions damn me if I'm wrong, I have all unsigned Banksy's except Trolley Colour so its not like I am arguing for my collection. I agree that pre Banksy AS FAR AS WE KNOW this didn't happen MUCH but wasn't one of the grassroot efforts of POW making art affordable hence the unsigned editions. I'm sorry if I am going against the grain here but I'm not buying this.
Well I think your right in that this maybe new ground but put it this way which would you rather have given a choice signed vs not thats pretty simple as it is a personal touch by the artists also adds a bit of legitimacy IMO. Also with most Banksy editions the signed runs are smaller although the same image in most cases. So is the hand touching worth more Bast and Faile think so... ok ok not quite the same but still. there you go slowmo my opinion not ignoring you You're not understanding what I am saying. I need to know of artists before who have given blessing to two tiered print editions. I cannot think of any. More than willing to accept that people may have, but want corroboration. Otherwise, for me a signed is worth as much as an unsigned, both have the artists blessing, both have the same image. Why would signing it make it worth more? The artist approved both? Not sure if I am explaining myself well, but the idea of hand finishing by writing your name, meaning it is worth more (when in fact you have exactly the same image) seems slightly ludicrous. I genuinely never thought of this as a factor until this thread started, as I had never looked at artists pre Banksy to see if they had unsigned editions that were authorised as the artists work but were worth less because they were not signed. Can someone give me examples? Signed print being worth more than an unsigned for some reason does not seem the slightest bit rediculous to me. IMO the only people making these arguements that I am hearing regarding unsigned prints being worth more are people that must have a personal stake. This thought was considered semi insane prior to the auction now people are jumping on left and right. These are my opnions damn me if I'm wrong, I have all unsigned Banksy's except Trolley Colour so its not like I am arguing for my collection. I agree that pre Banksy AS FAR AS WE KNOW this didn't happen MUCH but wasn't one of the grassroot efforts of POW making art affordable hence the unsigned editions. I'm sorry if I am going against the grain here but I'm not buying this. |
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Bonhams โข Art Auctions โข London ๐ฌ๐ง, by slowmo on Feb 14, 2008 9:41:02 GMT 1, Hey Leumus,
I'm happy to accept that Banksy signed are more valuable, it shows on ebay prices, just looking for precedents. I still am not sure if an unsigned Warhol is worth any less than a signed one?
I'm not trying to say a definite either way conclusion, just interested to know if historically, people put out the same imgae in a signed and unsigned format, and whether on re-sale there was any price difference between, then if so how much?
Hey Leumus,
I'm happy to accept that Banksy signed are more valuable, it shows on ebay prices, just looking for precedents. I still am not sure if an unsigned Warhol is worth any less than a signed one?
I'm not trying to say a definite either way conclusion, just interested to know if historically, people put out the same imgae in a signed and unsigned format, and whether on re-sale there was any price difference between, then if so how much?
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nattymatt
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September 2007
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Bonhams โข Art Auctions โข London ๐ฌ๐ง, by nattymatt on Feb 14, 2008 9:44:23 GMT 1, I can only see prices for prints, signed or not, going south.
Too many up for sale.....can't really see too many people interested in how much a print goes for anymore, there's nothing special about them.
Originals are where its at and they should only become more valuable now....
I can only see prices for prints, signed or not, going south.
Too many up for sale.....can't really see too many people interested in how much a print goes for anymore, there's nothing special about them.
Originals are where its at and they should only become more valuable now....
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pezlow
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January 2007
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Bonhams โข Art Auctions โข London ๐ฌ๐ง, by pezlow on Feb 14, 2008 10:00:06 GMT 1, I am not too sure about the answer to your question Slowmo. I know that many artists over the years have not signed their work. Warhol is one but also many of the leading photographers don't sign their work.
The difference here is that in effect Banksy releases two editions of a print - one signed and one unsigned. It seems to me that it is inevitable that the signed version will be worth more than the unsigned for various reasons - touched by the artist, has more of a genuine feel about it, q-dos etc etc.
Now that our art is now in the mainstream in my opinion it is likely that mainstream collectors will care just as much about the signature, if not more. I can see the differential between signed prints and unsigned prints getting wider.
And as for this idea that there is going to be a big crash in the price of Banksy prints I find that highly unlikely.
Banksy is the Warhol of our generation. It has got to the stage now where in 20 years time, 100 years time he will still be seen as the leader of this worldwide genre and the most important artist of this decade.
As such his work is likely to be increasingly sought after as time goes on.
I am not too sure about the answer to your question Slowmo. I know that many artists over the years have not signed their work. Warhol is one but also many of the leading photographers don't sign their work.
The difference here is that in effect Banksy releases two editions of a print - one signed and one unsigned. It seems to me that it is inevitable that the signed version will be worth more than the unsigned for various reasons - touched by the artist, has more of a genuine feel about it, q-dos etc etc.
Now that our art is now in the mainstream in my opinion it is likely that mainstream collectors will care just as much about the signature, if not more. I can see the differential between signed prints and unsigned prints getting wider.
And as for this idea that there is going to be a big crash in the price of Banksy prints I find that highly unlikely.
Banksy is the Warhol of our generation. It has got to the stage now where in 20 years time, 100 years time he will still be seen as the leader of this worldwide genre and the most important artist of this decade.
As such his work is likely to be increasingly sought after as time goes on.
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nattymatt
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September 2007
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Bonhams โข Art Auctions โข London ๐ฌ๐ง, by nattymatt on Feb 14, 2008 10:47:13 GMT 1, well can you imagine say 3 or 4 different prints and 10 copies of each up for auction.
It would be ridiculous and surely the auction house would lose credibility....
but then again demand dictates price
well can you imagine say 3 or 4 different prints and 10 copies of each up for auction.
It would be ridiculous and surely the auction house would lose credibility....
but then again demand dictates price
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pezlow
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January 2007
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Bonhams โข Art Auctions โข London ๐ฌ๐ง, by pezlow on Feb 14, 2008 10:53:54 GMT 1, The auction houses won't allow multiple copies of the same print to be sold in the same auction. Besides you have to remember that the numbers of earlier prints knocking around are pretty limited. Most of the signed editions from the earlier prints were no more than 150, with most considerably less than that. It is only with Grin Reaper/J&J/CND that the signed edition numbers started to grow.
I can fully accept that the banksy print prices may go down in value in the short term (similar to the fluctuations in the market of say Takashi Murakami). But in the medium to long term they will increase.
The auction houses won't allow multiple copies of the same print to be sold in the same auction. Besides you have to remember that the numbers of earlier prints knocking around are pretty limited. Most of the signed editions from the earlier prints were no more than 150, with most considerably less than that. It is only with Grin Reaper/J&J/CND that the signed edition numbers started to grow.
I can fully accept that the banksy print prices may go down in value in the short term (similar to the fluctuations in the market of say Takashi Murakami). But in the medium to long term they will increase.
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CHAMB
Artist
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Bonhams โข Art Auctions โข London ๐ฌ๐ง, by CHAMB on Feb 14, 2008 11:28:19 GMT 1, I'm sure they're going to be slammed from people wanting to cash in on Nick Walker
I'm sure they're going to be slammed from people wanting to cash in on Nick Walker
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stenz1
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Bonhams โข Art Auctions โข London ๐ฌ๐ง, by stenz1 on Feb 14, 2008 11:37:34 GMT 1, ''I would say true market value is the average price paid, including ebay galleries and auction houses. one off prices from auction houses do not give a fair market value price. ''
Well said. Bonhams has its own market, which is completely different to fleabay (which is sometimes the equivalent of a car boot sale! 'awright guvnor, me mate got this banksy off a mate right back in bristol, for a favour yeah?')
whereas Bonhams is totally about who has the biggest paddle and gets it up the most! Bonhams have big f*ck off pornographic catalouges, and celebs................
They don't want to be flooding their market with unsigned and even signed Banksy's it will just cut into their profit. 'First come, first served basis'..It could be the cynic in me but isn't this a crock of sh*t. once you start dealing with Bonhams, they look after their own.
''I would say true market value is the average price paid, including ebay galleries and auction houses. one off prices from auction houses do not give a fair market value price. ''
Well said. Bonhams has its own market, which is completely different to fleabay (which is sometimes the equivalent of a car boot sale! 'awright guvnor, me mate got this banksy off a mate right back in bristol, for a favour yeah?')
whereas Bonhams is totally about who has the biggest paddle and gets it up the most! Bonhams have big f*ck off pornographic catalouges, and celebs................
They don't want to be flooding their market with unsigned and even signed Banksy's it will just cut into their profit. 'First come, first served basis'..It could be the cynic in me but isn't this a crock of sh*t. once you start dealing with Bonhams, they look after their own.
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ikeamonkey
New Member
๐จ๏ธ 56
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February 2008
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Bonhams โข Art Auctions โข London ๐ฌ๐ง, by ikeamonkey on Mar 4, 2008 23:10:06 GMT 1, The auction houses won't allow multiple copies of the same print to be sold in the same auction. Besides you have to remember that the numbers of earlier prints knocking around are pretty limited. Most of the signed editions from the earlier prints were no more than 150, with most considerably less than that. It is only with Grin Reaper/J&J/CND that the signed edition numbers started to grow. I can fully accept that the banksy print prices may go down in value in the short term (similar to the fluctuations in the market of say Takashi Murakami). But in the medium to long term they will increase.
I tend to agree and disagree with this. I don't think that Banksy prices will go down south as long as the auctions do well. As someone said previous... going to auctions is about the paddle/money wad size... once these rich people get said piece of art (print or original) they are not going to flip it in a few months or a few years. In MOST instances, they just keep it until they either can sell it for an amount worth them selling it. If it depreciates, they would just put their banksy or depreciated artwork in their restrooms or Butler's bedroom... thus leading to the point that the supply of the signed prints to diminish as opposed to normal people like us who can only afford "x" dollars for art and have the "one in one" out mentality... leading a ebay purchased print to most likely resurface once the trend/art phase dies down.
I do agree with the Murakami part. Murakami is as big if not bigger than Banksy in Asia. His prints are all in 300 print runs. You notice that his recent prints hit ebay and gets recycled over and over at double - triple retail... but after a year or two, they find homes and the few that are available goes to auction and fetch 5-8 times their value. Murakami's pieces reach in the millions for an original. Even though his signed prints are in edition's #'d "ball park" of banksy's signed... it still hard to find and obtain... thus keeping the prices high.
In closing: Auctions fetch a higher price... and is sold to a clientele that doesn't need to flip to keep their lives going, thus decreasing the supply on the market. Ebay while is cheap... most likely caters to customers that are sensitive to price increases/decreases... so as the market ebbs and flows... said ebay item comes comes in and out of circulation till it settles into a more permanent home. So Bonham's is just the future state of where Banksy prices could very well be.
I'll get off my podium now. Cheers!
The auction houses won't allow multiple copies of the same print to be sold in the same auction. Besides you have to remember that the numbers of earlier prints knocking around are pretty limited. Most of the signed editions from the earlier prints were no more than 150, with most considerably less than that. It is only with Grin Reaper/J&J/CND that the signed edition numbers started to grow. I can fully accept that the banksy print prices may go down in value in the short term (similar to the fluctuations in the market of say Takashi Murakami). But in the medium to long term they will increase. I tend to agree and disagree with this. I don't think that Banksy prices will go down south as long as the auctions do well. As someone said previous... going to auctions is about the paddle/money wad size... once these rich people get said piece of art (print or original) they are not going to flip it in a few months or a few years. In MOST instances, they just keep it until they either can sell it for an amount worth them selling it. If it depreciates, they would just put their banksy or depreciated artwork in their restrooms or Butler's bedroom... thus leading to the point that the supply of the signed prints to diminish as opposed to normal people like us who can only afford "x" dollars for art and have the "one in one" out mentality... leading a ebay purchased print to most likely resurface once the trend/art phase dies down. I do agree with the Murakami part. Murakami is as big if not bigger than Banksy in Asia. His prints are all in 300 print runs. You notice that his recent prints hit ebay and gets recycled over and over at double - triple retail... but after a year or two, they find homes and the few that are available goes to auction and fetch 5-8 times their value. Murakami's pieces reach in the millions for an original. Even though his signed prints are in edition's #'d "ball park" of banksy's signed... it still hard to find and obtain... thus keeping the prices high. In closing: Auctions fetch a higher price... and is sold to a clientele that doesn't need to flip to keep their lives going, thus decreasing the supply on the market. Ebay while is cheap... most likely caters to customers that are sensitive to price increases/decreases... so as the market ebbs and flows... said ebay item comes comes in and out of circulation till it settles into a more permanent home. So Bonham's is just the future state of where Banksy prices could very well be. I'll get off my podium now. Cheers! |
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mike hunt
New Member
๐จ๏ธ 456
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December 2006
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Bonhams โข Art Auctions โข London ๐ฌ๐ง, by mike hunt on Mar 4, 2008 23:20:24 GMT 1, Bonhams are fairly reasonable compared to Sotheby's etc. Also, if you look at some Galleries, their prices are considerably more than auction houses sometimes. Auction houses are a completely different animal to ebay.
Bonhams are fairly reasonable compared to Sotheby's etc. Also, if you look at some Galleries, their prices are considerably more than auction houses sometimes. Auction houses are a completely different animal to ebay.
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Winter
Junior Member
๐จ๏ธ 7,155
๐๐ป 4,461
March 2007
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Bonhams โข Art Auctions โข London ๐ฌ๐ง, by Winter on Mar 5, 2008 0:16:51 GMT 1, Neate's going to be the big name at the next Bonhams
Neate's going to be the big name at the next Bonhams
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mike hunt
New Member
๐จ๏ธ 456
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December 2006
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Bonhams โข Art Auctions โข London ๐ฌ๐ง, by mike hunt on Mar 5, 2008 0:57:19 GMT 1, 3 going in (not mine) - I'm sure they'll do well
3 going in (not mine) - I'm sure they'll do well
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Winter
Junior Member
๐จ๏ธ 7,155
๐๐ป 4,461
March 2007
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Bonhams โข Art Auctions โข London ๐ฌ๐ง, by Winter on Mar 5, 2008 9:04:44 GMT 1, Which ones?
Which ones?
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hanky
New Member
๐จ๏ธ 663
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December 2007
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Bonhams โข Art Auctions โข London ๐ฌ๐ง, by hanky on Mar 5, 2008 9:35:27 GMT 1, THE END RESULT IS THE SAME, BUT THE ROAD TO THAT PLACE IS AN ENTIRELY DIFFERENT JOURNEY
Aaah bring back Diamond White cider!
THE END RESULT IS THE SAME, BUT THE ROAD TO THAT PLACE IS AN ENTIRELY DIFFERENT JOURNEY
Aaah bring back Diamond White cider!
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there you go slowmo my opinion not ignoring you 
