daveart
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How to win friends and influence the Banksy FORUM, by daveart on Jan 12, 2015 20:26:56 GMT 1, my 2 cents.. it does seem there are times where one person is selling art work and a number of people are there to jump in and say "amazing deal " ' move fast ' 'great price ' etc. is this manipulation ? maybe on the little slice of the market that is this board. but the art market is much bigger than a few people on here could manage to coordinate for very long... so buyer be ware. people were saying this years ago too when you could buy an unsigned print under 1000 gbp and signed prints were all over the place in the 3-5GBP range.. so, i doubt a few people here moved CYW from a 5K print to 15K .. and convinced galleries all over the world to fight for them.. etc, etc..
we have seen pumps on here for Stik , Dran, charming baker, whatson maybe .. seems like Kunstrasen is headed in the same direction.. but that's the way it goes.. doesnt mean there is anything overly shady going on .. and some people that bought well after the hype started are still happy to have the art work on their walls so who is really hurt ?? anyway, im just rambling now...
my 2 cents.. it does seem there are times where one person is selling art work and a number of people are there to jump in and say "amazing deal " ' move fast ' 'great price ' etc. is this manipulation ? maybe on the little slice of the market that is this board. but the art market is much bigger than a few people on here could manage to coordinate for very long... so buyer be ware. people were saying this years ago too when you could buy an unsigned print under 1000 gbp and signed prints were all over the place in the 3-5GBP range.. so, i doubt a few people here moved CYW from a 5K print to 15K .. and convinced galleries all over the world to fight for them.. etc, etc..
we have seen pumps on here for Stik , Dran, charming baker, whatson maybe .. seems like Kunstrasen is headed in the same direction.. but that's the way it goes.. doesnt mean there is anything overly shady going on .. and some people that bought well after the hype started are still happy to have the art work on their walls so who is really hurt ?? anyway, im just rambling now...
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Deleted
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How to win friends and influence the Banksy FORUM, by Deleted on Jan 12, 2015 20:37:20 GMT 1, What happens here, happens all the way up the ladder.
What happens here, happens all the way up the ladder.
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Deleted
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How to win friends and influence the Banksy FORUM, by Deleted on Jan 12, 2015 20:37:46 GMT 1, All this talk about money and "hyped prices"..... Only pay what you think is fair for a print you like. Artists will always be promoted, same as all things for sale. People always want to sell high and buy low.....
Now let's talk about art and Banksy's new print.
Wait whut?
All this talk about money and "hyped prices"..... Only pay what you think is fair for a print you like. Artists will always be promoted, same as all things for sale. People always want to sell high and buy low.....
Now let's talk about art and Banksy's new print.
Wait whut?
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Deleted
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How to win friends and influence the Banksy FORUM, by Deleted on Jan 12, 2015 20:38:22 GMT 1, What happens here, happens all the way up the ladder. 
What happens here, happens all the way up the ladder. What happens on the Banksyforum stays on the banksy forum |
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tab1
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How to win friends and influence the Banksy FORUM, by tab1 on Jan 12, 2015 20:53:29 GMT 1, There definitely were people that engaged in trying to manipulate the market online (circa 2008?) with possibly using the forums but especially ebay (shill bids) to bring prices up. There were news articles about it. But at this point I think the market is beyond any kind of serious manipulation, at least on this forum. Back in the day I sold a few banksy prints at prices that would now be considered so low I feel like I'm good for the rest of my life with giving to charity. The people who bough from me are now many, MANY thousands richer. So with how things have changed and with the few remaining Banksy prints I have left ... I'm just not selling unless I'm offered a life-changing sum of money - or close to it - and I guess I'm not alone in that feeling with the lack of supply and high prices for the past couple years. The only thing that might (maybe) change this situation is if Banksy starts releasing several prints a year again - I highly doubt it. I'm guessing he got really turned off by the money and greed and people getting beat up in line and people whining about missing out and then selling the print anyway...
It would be Kaos if banksy released print editions again,
Could probably release on the scale of mbw at these prices now and still sell out
There definitely were people that engaged in trying to manipulate the market online (circa 2008?) with possibly using the forums but especially ebay (shill bids) to bring prices up. There were news articles about it. But at this point I think the market is beyond any kind of serious manipulation, at least on this forum. Back in the day I sold a few banksy prints at prices that would now be considered so low I feel like I'm good for the rest of my life with giving to charity. The people who bough from me are now many, MANY thousands richer. So with how things have changed and with the few remaining Banksy prints I have left ... I'm just not selling unless I'm offered a life-changing sum of money - or close to it - and I guess I'm not alone in that feeling with the lack of supply and high prices for the past couple years. The only thing that might (maybe) change this situation is if Banksy starts releasing several prints a year again - I highly doubt it. I'm guessing he got really turned off by the money and greed and people getting beat up in line and people whining about missing out and then selling the print anyway... It would be Kaos if banksy released print editions again, Could probably release on the scale of mbw at these prices now and still sell out |
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Deleted
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How to win friends and influence the Banksy FORUM, by Deleted on Jan 12, 2015 21:19:37 GMT 1, Im glad most you seem to think sales here do not become a barometer for other sales here - phew
once again im not talking about the market a whole
In fact I was centring on unsigneds wasn't i(HERE)
This place has no checks and particularly new people lap it up, it's incrredibly easy to manipulate
Again I'm not talking about the WHOLE market
((But it would be just as easy to pump the market with a couple of auction results and. Ebay results - if you concentrated on lower valued works ....and wouldn't take that much money....)
(Must of you just read the title of a thread and that's it - well I do too - but still)
Im glad most you seem to think sales here do not become a barometer for other sales here - phew
once again im not talking about the market a whole
In fact I was centring on unsigneds wasn't i(HERE)
This place has no checks and particularly new people lap it up, it's incrredibly easy to manipulate
Again I'm not talking about the WHOLE market
((But it would be just as easy to pump the market with a couple of auction results and. Ebay results - if you concentrated on lower valued works ....and wouldn't take that much money....)
(Must of you just read the title of a thread and that's it - well I do too - but still)
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tab1
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How to win friends and influence the Banksy FORUM, by tab1 on Jan 12, 2015 21:24:24 GMT 1, Im glad most you seem to think sales here do not become a barometer for other sales here - phew once again im not talking about the market a whole In fact I was centring on unsigneds wasn't i(HERE) This place has no checks and particularly new people lap it up, it's incrredibly easy to manipulate Again I'm not talking about the WHOLE market ((But it would be just as easy to pump the market with a couple of auction results and. Ebay results - if you concentrated on lower valued works ....and wouldn't take that much money....)
Time for an experiment to put to a test
Im glad most you seem to think sales here do not become a barometer for other sales here - phew once again im not talking about the market a whole In fact I was centring on unsigneds wasn't i(HERE) This place has no checks and particularly new people lap it up, it's incrredibly easy to manipulate Again I'm not talking about the WHOLE market ((But it would be just as easy to pump the market with a couple of auction results and. Ebay results - if you concentrated on lower valued works ....and wouldn't take that much money....) Time for an experiment to put to a test |
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How to win friends and influence the Banksy FORUM, by Black Apple Art on Jan 12, 2015 21:32:20 GMT 1, What happens here, happens all the way up the ladder. What happens on the Banksyforum stays on the banksy forum
As for friends.. True friends are earned and never won.
What happens here, happens all the way up the ladder. What happens on the Banksyforum stays on the banksy forum Probably one of the few art markets in world wide focus that can't be manipulated as there just isn't a active supply chain to be controlled. There is no living artist who has tapered off their (public) releases to basically zero with their demand at an all time high. Hard to compare the Banksy market with anything else because there really is nothing else like it. As for friends.. True friends are earned and never won. |
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Deleted
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How to win friends and influence the Banksy FORUM, by Deleted on Jan 12, 2015 21:36:36 GMT 1, Blimey
You literally only have to read the first line of my original post
'Take a forum centred mainly around the buying and selling...'
Again I'm not talking about that whole MARKET
(But I'm sure galleries take away a little of what they see here, I've definitely had galleries say the last one here sold for ...)
Blimey
You literally only have to read the first line of my original post
'Take a forum centred mainly around the buying and selling...'
Again I'm not talking about that whole MARKET
(But I'm sure galleries take away a little of what they see here, I've definitely had galleries say the last one here sold for ...)
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Deleted
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How to win friends and influence the Banksy FORUM, by Deleted on Jan 12, 2015 21:45:05 GMT 1, qz.com/103091/high-end-art-is-one-of-the-most-manipulated-markets-in-the-world/
The whole damn thing is rotten. If you want more sources and research just google it. Those of you with loads of work in flat files and sitting on floors, I hope you bought for the love of art not $.
If you're in it for future cash, well... good luck on that strategy. 99% of the works advertised here will not hold their original value.
qz.com/103091/high-end-art-is-one-of-the-most-manipulated-markets-in-the-world/The whole damn thing is rotten. If you want more sources and research just google it. Those of you with loads of work in flat files and sitting on floors, I hope you bought for the love of art not $. If you're in it for future cash, well... good luck on that strategy. 99% of the works advertised here will not hold their original value.
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daveart
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How to win friends and influence the Banksy FORUM, by daveart on Jan 12, 2015 21:47:37 GMT 1, Don't most people also check eBay and maybe a gallery or two before spending thousands ??
Don't most people also check eBay and maybe a gallery or two before spending thousands ??
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How to win friends and influence the Banksy FORUM, by Jeezuz Jones Snr on Jan 12, 2015 22:02:06 GMT 1, What happens on the Banksyforum stays on the banksy forum Probably one of the few art markets in world wide focus that can't be manipulated as there just isn't a active supply chain to be controlled. There is no living artist who has tapered off their (public) releases to basically zero with their demand at an all time high. Hard to compare the Banksy market with anything else because there really is nothing else like it. As for friends.. True friends are earned and never won.
Too true hence why we all keep on saying supply and demand. We know he likes doing a bit for charity, I think next time he will release prints they will be for charity and will be a couple of grand each.
What happens on the Banksyforum stays on the banksy forum Probably one of the few art markets in world wide focus that can't be manipulated as there just isn't a active supply chain to be controlled. There is no living artist who has tapered off their (public) releases to basically zero with their demand at an all time high. Hard to compare the Banksy market with anything else because there really is nothing else like it. As for friends.. True friends are earned and never won. Too true hence why we all keep on saying supply and demand. We know he likes doing a bit for charity, I think next time he will release prints they will be for charity and will be a couple of grand each. |
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How to win friends and influence the Banksy FORUM, by Dexter Bulldog on Jan 12, 2015 22:03:08 GMT 1, There certainly seems to be cliques of people that do some sort of manipulation, and maybe its all the same person or just a few people. "Great Seller" "this wont last long" etc can be very suspicious as well as how some members "sell" a piece in 30 minutes after starting a thread, yet some other schmuk will come along a month later and have to start a new thread every week to try and sell the same piece with no success.
Can this forum really dictate price of the overall market? Maybe not, but maybe so to an extent. What is one's options for buying a piece? Dealers and auctions, here or ebay. If people don't want to pay dealer prices they come here, and with galleries on here they can just raise their price based on what they see people willing to spend here.
There certainly seems to be cliques of people that do some sort of manipulation, and maybe its all the same person or just a few people. "Great Seller" "this wont last long" etc can be very suspicious as well as how some members "sell" a piece in 30 minutes after starting a thread, yet some other schmuk will come along a month later and have to start a new thread every week to try and sell the same piece with no success.
Can this forum really dictate price of the overall market? Maybe not, but maybe so to an extent. What is one's options for buying a piece? Dealers and auctions, here or ebay. If people don't want to pay dealer prices they come here, and with galleries on here they can just raise their price based on what they see people willing to spend here.
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Dice
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How to win friends and influence the Banksy FORUM, by Dice on Jan 12, 2015 22:03:53 GMT 1, What a load of old cobblers.
What a load of old cobblers.
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Deleted
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How to win friends and influence the Banksy FORUM, by Deleted on Jan 12, 2015 22:08:25 GMT 1, What a load of old cobblers.
A trade, sir, that I hope I may use with a safe conscience, which is, indeed, sir, a mender of bad soles.
What a load of old cobblers. A trade, sir, that I hope I may use with a safe conscience, which is, indeed, sir, a mender of bad soles. |
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How to win friends and influence the Banksy FORUM, by Rouen Cathedral on Jan 12, 2015 22:16:03 GMT 1, Im glad most you seem to think sales here do not become a barometer for other sales here - phew once again im not talking about the market a whole In fact I was centring on unsigneds wasn't i(HERE) This place has no checks and particularly new people lap it up, it's incrredibly easy to manipulate Again I'm not talking about the WHOLE market ((But it would be just as easy to pump the market with a couple of auction results and. Ebay results - if you concentrated on lower valued works ....and wouldn't take that much money....) (Must of you just read the title of a thread and that's it - well I do too - but still)
So where are the sources for your claims?
Im glad most you seem to think sales here do not become a barometer for other sales here - phew once again im not talking about the market a whole In fact I was centring on unsigneds wasn't i(HERE) This place has no checks and particularly new people lap it up, it's incrredibly easy to manipulate Again I'm not talking about the WHOLE market ((But it would be just as easy to pump the market with a couple of auction results and. Ebay results - if you concentrated on lower valued works ....and wouldn't take that much money....) (Must of you just read the title of a thread and that's it - well I do too - but still) So where are the sources for your claims? |
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Deleted
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How to win friends and influence the Banksy FORUM, by Deleted on Jan 12, 2015 22:38:14 GMT 1, Sources?
Didn't you read the end of my first post?
The question you have to ask is plausibility...I'm merely pointing out this forums inability to prove or disprove manipulation.
Some of these responses are most interesting...lol
Sources?
Didn't you read the end of my first post?
The question you have to ask is plausibility...I'm merely pointing out this forums inability to prove or disprove manipulation.
Some of these responses are most interesting...lol
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.dappy
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How to win friends and influence the Banksy FORUM, by .dappy on Jan 12, 2015 22:45:54 GMT 1,
... I think bodrabit is conducting a social experiment ... he'll be offering us a t-shirt next ...
... I think bodrabit is conducting a social experiment ... he'll be offering us a t-shirt next ... |
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Warm Gun
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How to win friends and influence the Banksy FORUM, by Warm Gun on Jan 12, 2015 23:13:10 GMT 1, The opening post sums up DrJimmy's buying and selling game to a tee....there are also several other members who have been doing this for many years.
The opening post sums up DrJimmy's buying and selling game to a tee....there are also several other members who have been doing this for many years.
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How to win friends and influence the Banksy FORUM, by Rouen Cathedral on Jan 12, 2015 23:15:55 GMT 1, Sources? Didn't you read the end of my first post? The question you have to ask is plausibility...I'm merely pointing out this forums inability to prove or disprove manipulation. Some of these responses are most interesting...lol 
Sources? Didn't you read the end of my first post? The question you have to ask is plausibility...I'm merely pointing out this forums inability to prove or disprove manipulation. Some of these responses are most interesting...lol haha oh man. I actually thought this was going to be a thread about the market manipulation! not just hypothetical... oh darn |
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.dappy
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How to win friends and influence the Banksy FORUM, by .dappy on Jan 12, 2015 23:55:44 GMT 1,
... tulips ...
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Deleted
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How to win friends and influence the Banksy FORUM, by Deleted on Jan 13, 2015 0:15:58 GMT 1, i'm sure there is a lot of hyping and trying to flip for a quick profit with ltd editions and on this forum and the expresso bongo forum too there are probably one or two who do it.
Even hyping up the latest edition by one or two artists and creating excitement for the latest edition by X Y or Z artist.
It doesn't mean that people make a lot of money from it nowadays.
I don't get the mad rush to buy the latest edition from X Y or Z
it's not as if the edition is any different from the previous release not long before and it's not as if the artists isn't going to churn out another one soon and make money from the mad rush to buy the latest one.
My impression was that early on with the media publicity and the rise in prices of Banksy at auction, some people went round trying to snap up prints for low prices and re sell them at hyped prices.
is that possible today with banksy.
How much profit can one make from buying a print today and selling it tomorrow on this forum?
i'm sure there is a lot of hyping and trying to flip for a quick profit with ltd editions and on this forum and the expresso bongo forum too there are probably one or two who do it.
Even hyping up the latest edition by one or two artists and creating excitement for the latest edition by X Y or Z artist.
It doesn't mean that people make a lot of money from it nowadays.
I don't get the mad rush to buy the latest edition from X Y or Z
it's not as if the edition is any different from the previous release not long before and it's not as if the artists isn't going to churn out another one soon and make money from the mad rush to buy the latest one.
My impression was that early on with the media publicity and the rise in prices of Banksy at auction, some people went round trying to snap up prints for low prices and re sell them at hyped prices.
is that possible today with banksy.
How much profit can one make from buying a print today and selling it tomorrow on this forum?
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Deleted
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How to win friends and influence the Banksy FORUM, by Deleted on Jan 13, 2015 0:37:38 GMT 1,
Black ones...
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cmodart
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How to win friends and influence the Banksy FORUM, by cmodart on Jan 13, 2015 0:41:38 GMT 1, So what's the fix? - More regulation, Official memberships, No commenting on prices for fear of market manipulation. Not very attractive.
Seems like there are lots of people commenting every time prices are high or there is suspect behavior. Many ppl like drjimmy get dogged every time they post a FS thread. Not my business.
Also - there are loads of sales at cost, etc... If the prices were hyped to the point of manipulation, one could find prints/works on eBay, expressobeans, galleries, and auctions cheaper. that would be easy in most cases, even for a novice.
With all these forum crime-fighters, I find it hard to believe there is a systematic conspiracy to manipulate prices in a market that is probably at least 1,000 times larger than this forum.
That said, I suppose we all get a little manic when an artist we collect is increasing in price, etc... KUNSTRASEN IS GOING BANANAS! Buy Mortimer! BUY!!!
thanks for the entertaining thread. Catching up on UAA is a fun part of my daily routine, despite the imperfections.
So what's the fix? - More regulation, Official memberships, No commenting on prices for fear of market manipulation. Not very attractive.
Seems like there are lots of people commenting every time prices are high or there is suspect behavior. Many ppl like drjimmy get dogged every time they post a FS thread. Not my business.
Also - there are loads of sales at cost, etc... If the prices were hyped to the point of manipulation, one could find prints/works on eBay, expressobeans, galleries, and auctions cheaper. that would be easy in most cases, even for a novice.
With all these forum crime-fighters, I find it hard to believe there is a systematic conspiracy to manipulate prices in a market that is probably at least 1,000 times larger than this forum.
That said, I suppose we all get a little manic when an artist we collect is increasing in price, etc... KUNSTRASEN IS GOING BANANAS! Buy Mortimer! BUY!!!
thanks for the entertaining thread. Catching up on UAA is a fun part of my daily routine, despite the imperfections.
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Deleted
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How to win friends and influence the Banksy FORUM, by Deleted on Jan 13, 2015 0:47:35 GMT 1, So what's the fix? - More regulation, Official memberships, No commenting on prices for fear of market manipulation. Not very attractive. Seems like there are lots of people commenting every time prices are high or there is suspect behavior. Many ppl like drjimmy get dogged every time they post a FS thread. Not my business. Also - there are loads of sales at cost, etc... If the prices were hyped to the point of manipulation, one could find prints/works on eBay, expressobeans, galleries, and auctions cheaper. that would be easy in most cases, even for a novice. With all these forum crime-fighters, I find it hard to believe there is a systematic conspiracy to manipulate prices in a market that is probably at least 1,000 times larger than this forum. That said, I suppose we all get a little manic when an artist we collect is increasing in price, etc... KUNSTRASEN IS GOING BANANAS! Buy Mortimer! BUY!!! thanks for the entertaining thread. Catching up on UAA is a fun part of my daily routine, despite the imperfections.
you're making you're own stories now
'systematic conspiracy ' ? never said that, never implied that.
simply put this place is very simple to manipulate, surely it's better for people to be aware of this than be in blissful ignorance?
' what's the fix? - More regulation, Official memberships, No commenting on prices for fear of market manipulation. Not very attractive. ' - surely there's a half way house? You know inform people of the pitfalls. Maybe stop sales threads from being edited after items are sold? Maybe ask people to link to data on sales, I mean it's possible to find auction results on here, lets start using them if we think they're trustworthy? Lets start quoting ebay sales if we think they're trustworthy? Lets just be a littttttle more accountable instead of continually saying IMO IMO IMO
And once more for luck, I'm NOT talking about the WHOLE Banksy market, I'm talking about UNSIGNED on this FORUM. And it started long before the auction results at the beginning of Dec....
So what's the fix? - More regulation, Official memberships, No commenting on prices for fear of market manipulation. Not very attractive. Seems like there are lots of people commenting every time prices are high or there is suspect behavior. Many ppl like drjimmy get dogged every time they post a FS thread. Not my business. Also - there are loads of sales at cost, etc... If the prices were hyped to the point of manipulation, one could find prints/works on eBay, expressobeans, galleries, and auctions cheaper. that would be easy in most cases, even for a novice. With all these forum crime-fighters, I find it hard to believe there is a systematic conspiracy to manipulate prices in a market that is probably at least 1,000 times larger than this forum. That said, I suppose we all get a little manic when an artist we collect is increasing in price, etc... KUNSTRASEN IS GOING BANANAS! Buy Mortimer! BUY!!! thanks for the entertaining thread. Catching up on UAA is a fun part of my daily routine, despite the imperfections.
you're making you're own stories now
'systematic conspiracy ' ? never said that, never implied that.
simply put this place is very simple to manipulate, surely it's better for people to be aware of this than be in blissful ignorance?
' what's the fix? - More regulation, Official memberships, No commenting on prices for fear of market manipulation. Not very attractive. ' - surely there's a half way house? You know inform people of the pitfalls. Maybe stop sales threads from being edited after items are sold? Maybe ask people to link to data on sales, I mean it's possible to find auction results on here, lets start using them if we think they're trustworthy? Lets start quoting ebay sales if we think they're trustworthy? Lets just be a littttttle more accountable instead of continually saying IMO IMO IMO
And once more for luck, I'm NOT talking about the WHOLE Banksy market, I'm talking about UNSIGNED on this FORUM. And it started long before the auction results at the beginning of Dec....
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Deleted
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How to win friends and influence the Banksy FORUM, by Deleted on Jan 13, 2015 0:53:23 GMT 1, Price check. Choose Your Weapon queue jumper grey Mint w/ pest control
Asking for a friend
Price check. Choose Your Weapon queue jumper grey Mint w/ pest control
Asking for a friend
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cmodart
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How to win friends and influence the Banksy FORUM, by cmodart on Jan 13, 2015 0:54:55 GMT 1, I get it. But objectively, if the hyping had that kind of impact - I mean cruise-line art auction impact - wouldn't the actions fail to support the sales on the forum?
I suspect you're right, there is probably an attempt at market manipulation from some but it's probably not keeping pace with the art market as a whole.
If a bogus thread pops up, people seem to jump on it. If someone sells, quote them and it'll stay, right?
Again - healthy discussion. Thanks.
I get it. But objectively, if the hyping had that kind of impact - I mean cruise-line art auction impact - wouldn't the actions fail to support the sales on the forum?
I suspect you're right, there is probably an attempt at market manipulation from some but it's probably not keeping pace with the art market as a whole.
If a bogus thread pops up, people seem to jump on it. If someone sells, quote them and it'll stay, right?
Again - healthy discussion. Thanks.
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cmodart
Junior Member
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How to win friends and influence the Banksy FORUM, by cmodart on Jan 13, 2015 0:55:28 GMT 1, Price check. CYW grey. Mint w/ pest control Asking for a friend
Gazillion bazillion. Send me your wiring info.
Price check. CYW grey. Mint w/ pest control Asking for a friend Gazillion bazillion. Send me your wiring info. |
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Deleted
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How to win friends and influence the Banksy FORUM, by Deleted on Jan 13, 2015 0:58:13 GMT 1, it does seem there are times where one person is selling art work and a number of people are there to jump in and say "amazing deal " ' move fast ' 'great price ' etc. is this manipulation ?
I'd put money on it being to increase their post count rather than any sinister plot.
Glwts.... makes me cringe everytime I see it.
it does seem there are times where one person is selling art work and a number of people are there to jump in and say "amazing deal " ' move fast ' 'great price ' etc. is this manipulation ? I'd put money on it being to increase their post count rather than any sinister plot. Glwts.... makes me cringe everytime I see it. |
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