jim65535
New Member
Posts โข 86
Likes โข 65
May 2010
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For Sales Thread Improvements , by jim65535 on Mar 1, 2016 17:38:43 GMT 1, I thought I'd come back in on the discussion about comments on sales threads. I stick to what I said which is that a lot of posting on sales threads is inappropriate. Anyone looking to buy has to rely on doing their own research on whether an asking price is reasonable and whether they want to pay it...they certainly should not rely on third parties to do their research for them. The commenting also always runs into the risk of either seeming to increase prices or reduce them. There are huge numbers of threads which end up with members accusing each other of trying to support the price of pieces they (may or may not) own or talk a price down to get a bargain. If people do want to ask for help on pricing then stick a post in the price check thread....that's what it's there for. I just checked the forum rules to see what they said on the topic....this is what they say: 11. In Sales Threads; please respect the Original Posterโs valuation. Whilst you may believe you have a valid opinion on what a sensible market value is, another memberโs For Sale Thread is not the place to debate the matter. If you have a differing view you should refer to the Price Check section and debate the matter there.
The area I agree members should speak out on in sales threads is any concerns of fraud or misrepresentation of condition....and usually that happens. Anyway...just my view. Jim Oh, please don't encourage more price check threads! I know.....we're awash in for sale and price check posts....the problem seems to really be that Proboards don't have a "Don't index this thread in New Posts or Active Threads" option. If they did then we could all use the active threads function to keep up to date without having to wade through all these posts and could go have a look at Sales or Price checks if we wanted.
I thought I'd come back in on the discussion about comments on sales threads. I stick to what I said which is that a lot of posting on sales threads is inappropriate. Anyone looking to buy has to rely on doing their own research on whether an asking price is reasonable and whether they want to pay it...they certainly should not rely on third parties to do their research for them. The commenting also always runs into the risk of either seeming to increase prices or reduce them. There are huge numbers of threads which end up with members accusing each other of trying to support the price of pieces they (may or may not) own or talk a price down to get a bargain. If people do want to ask for help on pricing then stick a post in the price check thread....that's what it's there for. I just checked the forum rules to see what they said on the topic....this is what they say: 11. In Sales Threads; please respect the Original Posterโs valuation. Whilst you may believe you have a valid opinion on what a sensible market value is, another memberโs For Sale Thread is not the place to debate the matter. If you have a differing view you should refer to the Price Check section and debate the matter there.
The area I agree members should speak out on in sales threads is any concerns of fraud or misrepresentation of condition....and usually that happens. Anyway...just my view. Jim Oh, please don't encourage more price check threads! I know.....we're awash in for sale and price check posts....the problem seems to really be that Proboards don't have a "Don't index this thread in New Posts or Active Threads" option. If they did then we could all use the active threads function to keep up to date without having to wade through all these posts and could go have a look at Sales or Price checks if we wanted.
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Aza
Artist
Junior Member
Posts โข 2,983
Likes โข 3,791
November 2006
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For Sales Thread Improvements , by Aza on Mar 1, 2016 17:44:22 GMT 1, Just switch to I.P. boards. Much better
Just switch to I.P. boards. Much better
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jim65535
New Member
Posts โข 86
Likes โข 65
May 2010
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For Sales Thread Improvements , by jim65535 on Mar 1, 2016 17:52:43 GMT 1, Just switch to I.P. boards. Much better Sounds great....will you migrate all the users and data over or will Silky have to rekey it all?
Just switch to I.P. boards. Much better Sounds great....will you migrate all the users and data over or will Silky have to rekey it all?
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Wearology
Junior Member
Staff at FatFreeArt
Posts โข 3,580
Likes โข 4,502
April 2008
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For Sales Thread Improvements , by Wearology on Mar 1, 2016 17:56:20 GMT 1, What do you think of having 2 distinct sales threads. 1. Items for sale with a set price . 2. Items for sale auctions style & price checks. This way if people don't like auction style FS threads they can just block them out. I got a feeling this will encourage people to list an item with a set price.
What do you think of having 2 distinct sales threads. 1. Items for sale with a set price . 2. Items for sale auctions style & price checks. This way if people don't like auction style FS threads they can just block them out. I got a feeling this will encourage people to list an item with a set price.
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Aza
Artist
Junior Member
Posts โข 2,983
Likes โข 3,791
November 2006
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For Sales Thread Improvements , by Aza on Mar 1, 2016 17:57:00 GMT 1, I'll let the tech whizzes deal with all that, sounds like a hassle
I'll let the tech whizzes deal with all that, sounds like a hassle
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dreadnatty
Junior Member
Posts โข 5,431
Likes โข 6,992
February 2013
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For Sales Thread Improvements , by dreadnatty on Mar 1, 2016 17:59:03 GMT 1, What do you think of having 2 distinct sales threads. 1. Items for sale with a set price . 2. Items for sale auctions style & price checks. This way if people don't like auction style FS threads they can just block them out. I got a feeling this will encourage people to list a item with a set price. Wish we could block threads but we cannot as of now. Somebody mentioned it could done with some coding. I tagged Dan in the thread but no response. It would solve A LOT of problems
What do you think of having 2 distinct sales threads. 1. Items for sale with a set price . 2. Items for sale auctions style & price checks. This way if people don't like auction style FS threads they can just block them out. I got a feeling this will encourage people to list a item with a set price. Wish we could block threads but we cannot as of now. Somebody mentioned it could done with some coding. I tagged Dan in the thread but no response. It would solve A LOT of problems
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For Sales Thread Improvements , by Coach on Mar 1, 2016 18:07:29 GMT 1, Oh, please don't encourage more price check threads! I know.....we're awash in for sale and price check posts....the problem seems to really be that Proboards don't have a "Don't index this thread in New Posts or Active Threads" option. If they did then we could all use the active threads function to keep up to date without having to wade through all these posts and could go have a look at Sales or Price checks if we wanted.
My preference is to use last posts. As dread says, if yiu could block threads, that would be great. I could block every bloody price check thread going.
Oh, please don't encourage more price check threads! I know.....we're awash in for sale and price check posts....the problem seems to really be that Proboards don't have a "Don't index this thread in New Posts or Active Threads" option. If they did then we could all use the active threads function to keep up to date without having to wade through all these posts and could go have a look at Sales or Price checks if we wanted. My preference is to use last posts. As dread says, if yiu could block threads, that would be great. I could block every bloody price check thread going.
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jim65535
New Member
Posts โข 86
Likes โข 65
May 2010
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For Sales Thread Improvements , by jim65535 on Mar 1, 2016 18:13:06 GMT 1, What do you think of having 2 distinct sales threads. 1. Items for sale with a set price . 2. Items for sale auctions style & price checks. This way if people don't like auction style FS threads they can just block them out. I got a feeling this will encourage people to list a item with a set price. Wish we could block threads but we cannot as of now. Somebody mentioned it could done with some coding. I tagged Dan in the thread but no response. It would solve A LOT of problems The trouble with doing some coding to sort out the active threads is that you then have to maintain the code when Proboards issues updates....can be a real pain in the ****.
What do you think of having 2 distinct sales threads. 1. Items for sale with a set price . 2. Items for sale auctions style & price checks. This way if people don't like auction style FS threads they can just block them out. I got a feeling this will encourage people to list a item with a set price. Wish we could block threads but we cannot as of now. Somebody mentioned it could done with some coding. I tagged Dan in the thread but no response. It would solve A LOT of problems The trouble with doing some coding to sort out the active threads is that you then have to maintain the code when Proboards issues updates....can be a real pain in the ****.
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Black Apple Art
Art Gallery
Junior Member
Posts โข 2,007
Likes โข 3,971
September 2013
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For Sales Thread Improvements , by Black Apple Art on Mar 1, 2016 18:19:54 GMT 1, I also think we should revert to Gallery members being allowed to list in the sales section. I rarely list anything for sale as it is but sometimes have personal pieces that members are just missing out on because I can not list there. I agree on a seperate section for drops or releases but if something is for sale, what difference does it make if it is from a gallery member or not? Worked fine before IMO. Just a thought.
I also think we should revert to Gallery members being allowed to list in the sales section. I rarely list anything for sale as it is but sometimes have personal pieces that members are just missing out on because I can not list there. I agree on a seperate section for drops or releases but if something is for sale, what difference does it make if it is from a gallery member or not? Worked fine before IMO. Just a thought.
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For Sales Thread Improvements , by Steph Rat Catcher on Mar 1, 2016 18:34:53 GMT 1, What do you think of having 2 distinct sales threads. 1. Items for sale with a set price . 2. Items for sale auctions style & price checks. This way if people don't like auction style FS threads they can just block them out. I got a feeling this will encourage people to list a item with a set price. Wish we could block threads but we cannot as of now. Somebody mentioned it could done with some coding. I tagged Dan in the thread but no response. It would solve A LOT of problems no to auction styles.. Set a price and be done .. Unless its a og.. This is not ebay ....
What do you think of having 2 distinct sales threads. 1. Items for sale with a set price . 2. Items for sale auctions style & price checks. This way if people don't like auction style FS threads they can just block them out. I got a feeling this will encourage people to list a item with a set price. Wish we could block threads but we cannot as of now. Somebody mentioned it could done with some coding. I tagged Dan in the thread but no response. It would solve A LOT of problems no to auction styles.. Set a price and be done .. Unless its a og.. This is not ebay ....
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met
Junior Member
Posts โข 2,782
Likes โข 6,706
June 2009
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For Sales Thread Improvements , by met on Mar 1, 2016 19:40:44 GMT 1, ... I deliberately haven't read through this thread except at the start, as I wanted to read it 'all' at once rather than dip in and out, however I would say that i) I very much like individual articles and I am sure that others do too ii) I know that it is human to want to be loved but just because you do not get 'lots of likes' should not stop you posting what 'you' love ... part of your passion and love is being able to share it with others ... ... people look at me funny where I work, when I sometimes mention I'm off to a Gallery this evening and I tell them about the show - they are thinking about another style of art completely ... as they would never guess my love for Street and urban art, but I/we have a passion and they don't! ... it is better to be truely loved by one person, then liked by four As a personal rule and despite appreciating its benefits, I myself don't use the 'Like Post' facility.
If there's a post I find interesting or clever, I usually try to write something in reply. A main downside is the build-up of comments that merit replies but sometimes date from months back. By nature I procrastinate, and often lack time to draft suitably-considered responses.
Separately, the manner in which Likes are widely used on the forum suggests a value system that frequently seems skewed. Plenty of examples could be put forward, including the largely unacknowledged energy, time and care by members who take and post photographs of street art, those who seek out and post press articles of interest, or those offering challenging or fresh ideas.
A specific case that jumps to mind is this post by Feral Things on the Amazon + street art?! thread (a thread regarding an issue deserving far more discussion and member input than it received). It's one of the most well-crafted posts I've read: thought through, with real effort made in putting across a viewpoint humorously and efficiently.
Yet judging by the three Likes it received, that comment appears to have been overlooked for the most part. At the same time, some other post โ where the effort made is limited to showing a photo of a Banksy print the owner happens to be selling โ will immediately rack up Likes in the double digits.
It is this kind of discrepancy that leaves me a little uncomfortable, to the point where I prefer disassociating myself by not using the 'Like Post' facility at all.
... I deliberately haven't read through this thread except at the start, as I wanted to read it 'all' at once rather than dip in and out, however I would say that i) I very much like individual articles and I am sure that others do too ii) I know that it is human to want to be loved but just because you do not get 'lots of likes' should not stop you posting what 'you' love ... part of your passion and love is being able to share it with others ... ... people look at me funny where I work, when I sometimes mention I'm off to a Gallery this evening and I tell them about the show - they are thinking about another style of art completely ... as they would never guess my love for Street and urban art, but I/we have a passion and they don't! ... it is better to be truely loved by one person, then liked by four As a personal rule and despite appreciating its benefits, I myself don't use the 'Like Post' facility. If there's a post I find interesting or clever, I usually try to write something in reply. A main downside is the build-up of comments that merit replies but sometimes date from months back. By nature I procrastinate, and often lack time to draft suitably-considered responses. Separately, the manner in which Likes are widely used on the forum suggests a value system that frequently seems skewed. Plenty of examples could be put forward, including the largely unacknowledged energy, time and care by members who take and post photographs of street art, those who seek out and post press articles of interest, or those offering challenging or fresh ideas. A specific case that jumps to mind is this post by Feral Things on the Amazon + street art?! thread (a thread regarding an issue deserving far more discussion and member input than it received). It's one of the most well-crafted posts I've read: thought through, with real effort made in putting across a viewpoint humorously and efficiently. Yet judging by the three Likes it received, that comment appears to have been overlooked for the most part. At the same time, some other post โ where the effort made is limited to showing a photo of a Banksy print the owner happens to be selling โ will immediately rack up Likes in the double digits. It is this kind of discrepancy that leaves me a little uncomfortable, to the point where I prefer disassociating myself by not using the 'Like Post' facility at all.
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.dappy
Full Member
Posts โข 9,841
Likes โข 9,461
December 2010
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For Sales Thread Improvements , by .dappy on Mar 1, 2016 20:16:50 GMT 1, ... c'mon met this thread is about FS Thread improvements, or would you like a like ... or even an emojii
... you can always bring a Thread that you think is good and interesting back to the top, by making a short comment
... c'mon met this thread is about FS Thread improvements, or would you like a like ... or even an emojii ... you can always bring a Thread that you think is good and interesting back to the top, by making a short comment
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For Sales Thread Improvements , by Coach on Mar 1, 2016 21:13:01 GMT 1, ... I deliberately haven't read through this thread except at the start, as I wanted to read it 'all' at once rather than dip in and out, however I would say that i) I very much like individual articles and I am sure that others do too ii) I know that it is human to want to be loved but just because you do not get 'lots of likes' should not stop you posting what 'you' love ... part of your passion and love is being able to share it with others ... ... people look at me funny where I work, when I sometimes mention I'm off to a Gallery this evening and I tell them about the show - they are thinking about another style of art completely ... as they would never guess my love for Street and urban art, but I/we have a passion and they don't! ... it is better to be truely loved by one person, then liked by four As a personal rule and despite appreciating its benefits, I myself don't use the 'Like Post' facility. If there's a post I find interesting or clever, I usually try to write something in reply. A main downside is the build-up of comments that merit replies but sometimes date from months back. By nature I procrastinate, and often lack time to draft suitably-considered responses. Separately, the manner in which Likes are widely used on the forum suggests a value system that frequently seems skewed. Plenty of examples could be put forward, including the largely unacknowledged energy, time and care by members who take and post photographs of street art, those who seek out and post press articles of interest, or those offering challenging or fresh ideas. A specific case that jumps to mind is this post by Feral Things on the Amazon + street art?! thread (a thread regarding an issue deserving far more discussion and member input than it received). It's one of the most well-crafted posts I've read: thought through, with real effort made in putting across a viewpoint humorously and efficiently. Yet judging by the three Likes it received, that comment appears to have been overlooked for the most part. At the same time, some other post โ where the effort made is limited to showing a photo of a Banksy print the owner happens to be selling โ will immediately rack up Likes in the double digits. It is this kind of discrepancy that leaves me a little uncomfortable, to the point where I prefer disassociating myself by not using the 'Like Post' facility at all.
I have mentioned before that I think that the introduction of the "like" button reduced comment and discussion on the forum. It's too easy to just like a post. I am guilty of doing it myself. If the like button were not there, then I think people would be more likely to comment on posts. And in doing so, are, I think, unlikely to simply say "I like what you said there" and are more likely to say why, thus encouraging debate and discussion. Whilst it is undoubtedly pleasant to receive a like to ones post, it is more stimulating to receive a comment.
... I deliberately haven't read through this thread except at the start, as I wanted to read it 'all' at once rather than dip in and out, however I would say that i) I very much like individual articles and I am sure that others do too ii) I know that it is human to want to be loved but just because you do not get 'lots of likes' should not stop you posting what 'you' love ... part of your passion and love is being able to share it with others ... ... people look at me funny where I work, when I sometimes mention I'm off to a Gallery this evening and I tell them about the show - they are thinking about another style of art completely ... as they would never guess my love for Street and urban art, but I/we have a passion and they don't! ... it is better to be truely loved by one person, then liked by four As a personal rule and despite appreciating its benefits, I myself don't use the 'Like Post' facility. If there's a post I find interesting or clever, I usually try to write something in reply. A main downside is the build-up of comments that merit replies but sometimes date from months back. By nature I procrastinate, and often lack time to draft suitably-considered responses. Separately, the manner in which Likes are widely used on the forum suggests a value system that frequently seems skewed. Plenty of examples could be put forward, including the largely unacknowledged energy, time and care by members who take and post photographs of street art, those who seek out and post press articles of interest, or those offering challenging or fresh ideas. A specific case that jumps to mind is this post by Feral Things on the Amazon + street art?! thread (a thread regarding an issue deserving far more discussion and member input than it received). It's one of the most well-crafted posts I've read: thought through, with real effort made in putting across a viewpoint humorously and efficiently. Yet judging by the three Likes it received, that comment appears to have been overlooked for the most part. At the same time, some other post โ where the effort made is limited to showing a photo of a Banksy print the owner happens to be selling โ will immediately rack up Likes in the double digits. It is this kind of discrepancy that leaves me a little uncomfortable, to the point where I prefer disassociating myself by not using the 'Like Post' facility at all. I have mentioned before that I think that the introduction of the "like" button reduced comment and discussion on the forum. It's too easy to just like a post. I am guilty of doing it myself. If the like button were not there, then I think people would be more likely to comment on posts. And in doing so, are, I think, unlikely to simply say "I like what you said there" and are more likely to say why, thus encouraging debate and discussion. Whilst it is undoubtedly pleasant to receive a like to ones post, it is more stimulating to receive a comment.
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J0NNY
Junior Member
Posts โข 1,046
Likes โข 704
December 2014
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For Sales Thread Improvements , by J0NNY on Mar 2, 2016 5:21:27 GMT 1, Perhaps they should introduce a dislike button exclusively for the first post FS threads. If the seller say gets five more dislikes than likes then the thread dies. Also I hear what's mentioned about the Like button being too easy, I am guilty myself but it does come in handy when you got little time on your hands.
Perhaps they should introduce a dislike button exclusively for the first post FS threads. If the seller say gets five more dislikes than likes then the thread dies. Also I hear what's mentioned about the Like button being too easy, I am guilty myself but it does come in handy when you got little time on your hands.
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J0NNY
Junior Member
Posts โข 1,046
Likes โข 704
December 2014
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For Sales Thread Improvements , by J0NNY on Mar 2, 2016 6:10:37 GMT 1, jim65535 โ I share the view of loother regarding the point you mentioned above, in particular his reference to a sense of duty towards the less informed (who may otherwise get cheated) and silence being a form of collusion. Some additional supporting arguments here and here. Provided the intentions aren't petty and challenges can be backed up with examples, then honest discussions on sales threads seem fair to me as well as genuinely desirable. I thought I'd come back in on the discussion about comments on sales threads. I stick to what I said which is that a lot of posting on sales threads is inappropriate. Anyone looking to buy has to rely on doing their own research on whether an asking price is reasonable and whether they want to pay it...they certainly should not rely on third parties to do their research for them. The commenting also always runs into the risk of either seeming to increase prices or reduce them. There are huge numbers of threads which end up with members accusing each other of trying to support the price of pieces they (may or may not) own or talk a price down to get a bargain.ย If people do want to ask for help on pricing then stick a post in the price check thread....that's what it's there for. I just checked the forum rules to see what they said on the topic....this is what they say: 11. In Sales Threads; please respect the Original Posterโs valuation. Whilst you may believe you have a valid opinion on what a sensible market value is, another memberโs For Sale Thread is not the place to debate the matter. If you have a differing view you should refer to the Price Check section and debate the matter there.
The area I agree members should speak out on in sales threads is any concerns of fraud or misrepresentation of condition....and usually that happens. Anyway...just my view. Jim
Fair point but the way it is at the moment, the only manipulation of prices is increasing value. Countless 'great price' or 'can't believe this is still for sale' or even the classic 'if only I hadn't just made a big purchase'. Whatever way you look it at these could well be tactics to either push up prices, in artists whom the commenter has an interest in, or to try to get potential buyers in a panic in a typical 'sale ends soon' manner. Just think it's mostly the ridiculous eBay BIN prices quoted as comparision yet the auction listings often end at lower prices offered up here, and then you got to take fees from that too.
People do need to do their own research and buy what they like and can afford but, this place can be a grooming station where the experienced manipulate the inexperienced. If anyone thinks this should not be spoken out against or ignored, you understand street art not as a movement but as an opportunity. I'm not gonna hate on anyone for that, just be honest with yourselves.
Why is it that if people bought a WCP they are made to feel shamed for buying a great reproduction of an image they love and want on their walls? Is it because someone is making money off of someone else's product?? How many on here gave Banksy a cut of the money they made from reselling his work?
jim65535 โ I share the view of loother regarding the point you mentioned above, in particular his reference to a sense of duty towards the less informed (who may otherwise get cheated) and silence being a form of collusion. Some additional supporting arguments here and here. Provided the intentions aren't petty and challenges can be backed up with examples, then honest discussions on sales threads seem fair to me as well as genuinely desirable. I thought I'd come back in on the discussion about comments on sales threads. I stick to what I said which is that a lot of posting on sales threads is inappropriate. Anyone looking to buy has to rely on doing their own research on whether an asking price is reasonable and whether they want to pay it...they certainly should not rely on third parties to do their research for them. The commenting also always runs into the risk of either seeming to increase prices or reduce them. There are huge numbers of threads which end up with members accusing each other of trying to support the price of pieces they (may or may not) own or talk a price down to get a bargain.ย If people do want to ask for help on pricing then stick a post in the price check thread....that's what it's there for. I just checked the forum rules to see what they said on the topic....this is what they say: 11. In Sales Threads; please respect the Original Posterโs valuation. Whilst you may believe you have a valid opinion on what a sensible market value is, another memberโs For Sale Thread is not the place to debate the matter. If you have a differing view you should refer to the Price Check section and debate the matter there.
The area I agree members should speak out on in sales threads is any concerns of fraud or misrepresentation of condition....and usually that happens. Anyway...just my view. Jim Fair point but the way it is at the moment, the only manipulation of prices is increasing value. Countless 'great price' or 'can't believe this is still for sale' or even the classic 'if only I hadn't just made a big purchase'. Whatever way you look it at these could well be tactics to either push up prices, in artists whom the commenter has an interest in, or to try to get potential buyers in a panic in a typical 'sale ends soon' manner. Just think it's mostly the ridiculous eBay BIN prices quoted as comparision yet the auction listings often end at lower prices offered up here, and then you got to take fees from that too. People do need to do their own research and buy what they like and can afford but, this place can be a grooming station where the experienced manipulate the inexperienced. If anyone thinks this should not be spoken out against or ignored, you understand street art not as a movement but as an opportunity. I'm not gonna hate on anyone for that, just be honest with yourselves. Why is it that if people bought a WCP they are made to feel shamed for buying a great reproduction of an image they love and want on their walls? Is it because someone is making money off of someone else's product?? How many on here gave Banksy a cut of the money they made from reselling his work?
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d.r. perseus
Junior Member
Posts โข 1,570
Likes โข 1,749
December 2014
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For Sales Thread Improvements , by d.r. perseus on Mar 2, 2016 8:14:46 GMT 1, I get the impression that like me, many posters just click Active Threads to see whats changed, new posts, etc. Perhaps remove Price Check threads from that cuing if possible?
Help us Obi One Silky, you're our only hope.
I get the impression that like me, many posters just click Active Threads to see whats changed, new posts, etc. Perhaps remove Price Check threads from that cuing if possible?
Help us Obi One Silky, you're our only hope.
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d.r. perseus
Junior Member
Posts โข 1,570
Likes โข 1,749
December 2014
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For Sales Thread Improvements , by d.r. perseus on Mar 2, 2016 8:18:32 GMT 1, Perhaps they should introduce a dislike button exclusively for the first post FS threads. If the seller say gets five more dislikes than likes then the thread dies. Also I hear what's mentioned about the Like button being too easy, I am guilty myself but it does come in handy when you got little time on your hands. The introduction of a dislike button that removes threads or sends them to some kind of purgatory has the potential for chaos as I have seen in other to be unnamed forums.
Perhaps they should introduce a dislike button exclusively for the first post FS threads. If the seller say gets five more dislikes than likes then the thread dies. Also I hear what's mentioned about the Like button being too easy, I am guilty myself but it does come in handy when you got little time on your hands. The introduction of a dislike button that removes threads or sends them to some kind of purgatory has the potential for chaos as I have seen in other to be unnamed forums.
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J0NNY
Junior Member
Posts โข 1,046
Likes โข 704
December 2014
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For Sales Thread Improvements , by J0NNY on Mar 2, 2016 9:22:04 GMT 1, Yeah I can kinda see it would not change things - could potentially make it worse.
Yeah I can kinda see it would not change things - could potentially make it worse.
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toshspice
New Member
Posts โข 676
Likes โข 877
January 2006
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For Sales Thread Improvements , by toshspice on Mar 2, 2016 15:05:30 GMT 1, Number of posts can always be manipulated how ever time registered as a member cant. Not sure if there is away to restrict a members ability to start a thread in the FS part of the forum based on time spent as a member eg 6 or 12 months. These ristrictions could always be lifted by an FG if they feel the member has contributed enough in the time scale that they have signed up. Unfortunately it is a part of this forum that members lurk for information or give ways rather than contribute. There was a competition on the forum in the last 3 months were it was won by a member whose sole contribution to the forum over the past 12 months had been entering comps. Unfortunately that is something that can not be monitored but time registered as a member can. On occasions this forum is a very knowledgable resource. As such it has become a victim of its own value.
As much as there is good comment on here, there is also plenty that simply doesn't interest me enough to get involved. In that sense, I have zero problem with lurking.
Only being able to start sales threads after a minimum three month membership, regardless of the number of posts, might be one way of discouraging the dilettantes. This would also cut down on meaningless posts.
I think the democracy of the forum has diminished over the years. The forum polices itself pretty successfully, but rules can stifle participation and discourage people from getting involved, especially when it comes to being able to offer a critical perspective.
I find it perplexing that Ebay sales are now labelled as a bad thing to discuss or flag up when this was where the forum originally grew from. Allowing free comment and linking might even encourage some sellers to head for Ebay instead.
Number of posts can always be manipulated how ever time registered as a member cant. Not sure if there is away to restrict a members ability to start a thread in the FS part of the forum based on time spent as a member eg 6 or 12 months. These ristrictions could always be lifted by an FG if they feel the member has contributed enough in the time scale that they have signed up. Unfortunately it is a part of this forum that members lurk for information or give ways rather than contribute. There was a competition on the forum in the last 3 months were it was won by a member whose sole contribution to the forum over the past 12 months had been entering comps. Unfortunately that is something that can not be monitored but time registered as a member can. On occasions this forum is a very knowledgable resource. As such it has become a victim of its own value. As much as there is good comment on here, there is also plenty that simply doesn't interest me enough to get involved. In that sense, I have zero problem with lurking. Only being able to start sales threads after a minimum three month membership, regardless of the number of posts, might be one way of discouraging the dilettantes. This would also cut down on meaningless posts. I think the democracy of the forum has diminished over the years. The forum polices itself pretty successfully, but rules can stifle participation and discourage people from getting involved, especially when it comes to being able to offer a critical perspective. I find it perplexing that Ebay sales are now labelled as a bad thing to discuss or flag up when this was where the forum originally grew from. Allowing free comment and linking might even encourage some sellers to head for Ebay instead.
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met
Junior Member
Posts โข 2,782
Likes โข 6,706
June 2009
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For Sales Thread Improvements , by met on Mar 3, 2016 12:45:35 GMT 1, As a personal rule and despite appreciating its benefits, I myself don't use the 'Like Post' facility. If there's a post I find interesting or clever, I usually try to write something in reply. A main downside is the build-up of comments that merit replies but sometimes date from months back. By nature I procrastinate, and often lack time to draft suitably-considered responses. Separately, the manner in which Likes are widely used on the forum suggests a value system that frequently seems skewed. Plenty of examples could be put forward, including the largely unacknowledged energy, time and care by members who take and post photographs of street art, those who seek out and post press articles of interest, or those offering challenging or fresh ideas. A specific case that jumps to mind is this post by Feral Things on the Amazon + street art?! thread (a thread regarding an issue deserving far more discussion and member input than it received). It's one of the most well-crafted posts I've read: thought through, with real effort made in putting across a viewpoint humorously and efficiently. Yet judging by the three Likes it received, that comment appears to have been overlooked for the most part. At the same time, some other post โ where the effort made is limited to showing a photo of a Banksy print the owner happens to be selling โ will immediately rack up Likes in the double digits. It is this kind of discrepancy that leaves me a little uncomfortable, to the point where I prefer disassociating myself by not using the 'Like Post' facility at all. I have mentioned before that I think that the introduction of the "like" button reduced comment and discussion on the forum. It's too easy to just like a post. I am guilty of doing it myself. If the like button were not there, then I think people would be more likely to comment on posts. And in doing so, are, I think, unlikely to simply say "I like what you said there" and are more likely to say why, thus encouraging debate and discussion. Whilst it is undoubtedly pleasant to receive a like to ones post, it is more stimulating to receive a comment. This is an excellent point which I also take into account, so it's embarrassing that I failed to raise it.
The 'Like Post' facility is certainly convenient, allowing for rapid and public expressions of approval. But whether due to time constraints or other reasons, members may be inclined to limit their input on a thread to just Liking other posts. The result is a restricted number of participants in a discussion โ which in turn restricts the breadth, depth, and therefore potential benefits of the exchange.
Here's an additional danger, one that I myself often fall victim to: The very act of agreeing with someone occasionally serves as a signal to the brain that it can now relax and stop thinking about a subject matter, the discussion having been brought to a convenient close.
In this respect, agreement in the form of Likes may encourage intellectual laziness and the dulling of one's critical faculties.
As a personal rule and despite appreciating its benefits, I myself don't use the 'Like Post' facility. If there's a post I find interesting or clever, I usually try to write something in reply. A main downside is the build-up of comments that merit replies but sometimes date from months back. By nature I procrastinate, and often lack time to draft suitably-considered responses. Separately, the manner in which Likes are widely used on the forum suggests a value system that frequently seems skewed. Plenty of examples could be put forward, including the largely unacknowledged energy, time and care by members who take and post photographs of street art, those who seek out and post press articles of interest, or those offering challenging or fresh ideas. A specific case that jumps to mind is this post by Feral Things on the Amazon + street art?! thread (a thread regarding an issue deserving far more discussion and member input than it received). It's one of the most well-crafted posts I've read: thought through, with real effort made in putting across a viewpoint humorously and efficiently. Yet judging by the three Likes it received, that comment appears to have been overlooked for the most part. At the same time, some other post โ where the effort made is limited to showing a photo of a Banksy print the owner happens to be selling โ will immediately rack up Likes in the double digits. It is this kind of discrepancy that leaves me a little uncomfortable, to the point where I prefer disassociating myself by not using the 'Like Post' facility at all. I have mentioned before that I think that the introduction of the "like" button reduced comment and discussion on the forum. It's too easy to just like a post. I am guilty of doing it myself. If the like button were not there, then I think people would be more likely to comment on posts. And in doing so, are, I think, unlikely to simply say "I like what you said there" and are more likely to say why, thus encouraging debate and discussion. Whilst it is undoubtedly pleasant to receive a like to ones post, it is more stimulating to receive a comment. This is an excellent point which I also take into account, so it's embarrassing that I failed to raise it. The 'Like Post' facility is certainly convenient, allowing for rapid and public expressions of approval. But whether due to time constraints or other reasons, members may be inclined to limit their input on a thread to just Liking other posts. The result is a restricted number of participants in a discussion โ which in turn restricts the breadth, depth, and therefore potential benefits of the exchange. Here's an additional danger, one that I myself often fall victim to: The very act of agreeing with someone occasionally serves as a signal to the brain that it can now relax and stop thinking about a subject matter, the discussion having been brought to a convenient close. In this respect, agreement in the form of Likes may encourage intellectual laziness and the dulling of one's critical faculties.
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mishen
New Member
Posts โข 309
Likes โข 104
February 2015
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For Sales Thread Improvements , by mishen on Mar 4, 2016 0:03:22 GMT 1, I'm a new member here and never post anything prolific partly because I don't have as much knowledge as other and also I just like to read others. In terms of what and how people sell, why is this such a big deal? Some art doesn't have a precedent in terms of price or a recent one, especially original work as someone mentioned and a seller wants to get the best offer possible. I don't think it hurts the community in any way. Some people are flippers.. it's just the way it is. I feel like we should just accept it.
Obviously I like it when there are photos and good explanations of the sale but it's not keeping me up at night if there isn't. If I am REALLY interested I simply send a note. I've made some really great purchases when people list things out perfectly and when others play their sales closer to their chest. I just don't see why it affects people so much. I think just as long as someone doesn't lie, cheat or steal we should just let people be, talking sh*t is cool too, it makes it more human and fun. Again just as long as we follow simple moral code I think we'll all be ok.
I have come to love this board and wish I knew all of you better but what's important is the diversity in styles just as long as there is not wrong doing.
I'm a new member here and never post anything prolific partly because I don't have as much knowledge as other and also I just like to read others. In terms of what and how people sell, why is this such a big deal? Some art doesn't have a precedent in terms of price or a recent one, especially original work as someone mentioned and a seller wants to get the best offer possible. I don't think it hurts the community in any way. Some people are flippers.. it's just the way it is. I feel like we should just accept it.
Obviously I like it when there are photos and good explanations of the sale but it's not keeping me up at night if there isn't. If I am REALLY interested I simply send a note. I've made some really great purchases when people list things out perfectly and when others play their sales closer to their chest. I just don't see why it affects people so much. I think just as long as someone doesn't lie, cheat or steal we should just let people be, talking sh*t is cool too, it makes it more human and fun. Again just as long as we follow simple moral code I think we'll all be ok.
I have come to love this board and wish I knew all of you better but what's important is the diversity in styles just as long as there is not wrong doing.
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For Sales Thread Improvements , by Coach on Mar 4, 2016 0:11:47 GMT 1, I'm a new member here and never post anything prolific partly because I don't have as much knowledge as other and also I just like to read others. In terms of what and how people sell, why is this such a big deal? Some art doesn't have a precedent in terms of price or a recent one, especially original work as someone mentioned and a seller wants to get the best offer possible. I don't think it hurts the community in any way. Some people are flippers.. it's just the way it is. I feel like we should just accept it. Obviously I like it when there are photos and good explanations of the sale but it's not keeping me up at night if there isn't. If I am REALLY interested I simply send a note. I've made some really great purchases when people list things out perfectly and when others play their sales closer to their chest. I just don't see why it affects people so much. I think just as long as someone doesn't lie, cheat or steal we should just let people be, talking sh*t is cool too, it makes it more human and fun. Again just as long as we follow simple moral code I think we'll all be ok. I have come to love this board and wish I knew all of you better but what's important is the diversity in styles just as long as there is not wrong doing.
Well said. And, don't let your perceived lack of your own knowledge stop you posting. It doesn't stop other people!
I'm a new member here and never post anything prolific partly because I don't have as much knowledge as other and also I just like to read others. In terms of what and how people sell, why is this such a big deal? Some art doesn't have a precedent in terms of price or a recent one, especially original work as someone mentioned and a seller wants to get the best offer possible. I don't think it hurts the community in any way. Some people are flippers.. it's just the way it is. I feel like we should just accept it. Obviously I like it when there are photos and good explanations of the sale but it's not keeping me up at night if there isn't. If I am REALLY interested I simply send a note. I've made some really great purchases when people list things out perfectly and when others play their sales closer to their chest. I just don't see why it affects people so much. I think just as long as someone doesn't lie, cheat or steal we should just let people be, talking sh*t is cool too, it makes it more human and fun. Again just as long as we follow simple moral code I think we'll all be ok. I have come to love this board and wish I knew all of you better but what's important is the diversity in styles just as long as there is not wrong doing. Well said. And, don't let your perceived lack of your own knowledge stop you posting. It doesn't stop other people!
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met
Junior Member
Posts โข 2,782
Likes โข 6,706
June 2009
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For Sales Thread Improvements , by met on Mar 4, 2016 13:32:33 GMT 1, I'm a new member here and never post anything prolific partly because I don't have as much knowledge as other and also I just like to read others. In terms of what and how people sell, why is this such a big deal? Some art doesn't have a precedent in terms of price or a recent one, especially original work as someone mentioned and a seller wants to get the best offer possible. I don't think it hurts the community in any way. Some people are flippers.. it's just the way it is. I feel like we should just accept it. Obviously I like it when there are photos and good explanations of the sale but it's not keeping me up at night if there isn't. If I am REALLY interested I simply send a note. I've made some really great purchases when people list things out perfectly and when others play their sales closer to their chest. I just don't see why it affects people so much. I think just as long as someone doesn't lie, cheat or steal we should just let people be, talking sh*t is cool too, it makes it more human and fun. Again just as long as we follow simple moral code I think we'll all be ok. I have come to love this board and wish I knew all of you better but what's important is the diversity in styles just as long as there is not wrong doing.
I would encourage you to post more often. There are plenty of opportunities to comment where in-depth knowledge isn't required, where all that's needed is a viewpoint. And it doesn't always have to be informed, provided it's considered.
The advantage of posting over being a spectator is that it encourages people to think more and better formulate their thoughts โ in order to express those thoughts persuasively.
As a regular test for myself when considering a work of art, I assume I've been asked by someone who's completely blind, "Why exactly do you like or dislike this piece?" And if I'm unable to come up with a reasonably prompt, coherent answer, then that's a clear sign I'm being lazy and just not thinking hard enough.
Identifying the specific reasons one has for holding an opinion is crucial, because it then allows you to argue against yourself and spot potential weaknesses in your own position. That's key to a certain self-awareness. It helps a person recognise to what extent their opinions can withstand scrutiny by others with different views. And therefore to decide whether those opinions need reassessing, refining, or abandoning altogether.
Lack of physical exercise results in healthy individuals losing their strength, speed, agility and grace. Similar things happen to brains left on autopilot. Failing to challenge or question oneself makes smart people become more stupid and close-minded.
You see this often with otherwise capable individuals who are out of practice in the art of debate. Their arguments become less sophisticated, not as well thought through, and they react more slowly. In frustration, they may even turn to cheap distraction tactics to gain advantage, like ad hominems โ the last resort of the screaming wounded.
I'm a new member here and never post anything prolific partly because I don't have as much knowledge as other and also I just like to read others. In terms of what and how people sell, why is this such a big deal? Some art doesn't have a precedent in terms of price or a recent one, especially original work as someone mentioned and a seller wants to get the best offer possible. I don't think it hurts the community in any way. Some people are flippers.. it's just the way it is. I feel like we should just accept it. Obviously I like it when there are photos and good explanations of the sale but it's not keeping me up at night if there isn't. If I am REALLY interested I simply send a note. I've made some really great purchases when people list things out perfectly and when others play their sales closer to their chest. I just don't see why it affects people so much. I think just as long as someone doesn't lie, cheat or steal we should just let people be, talking sh*t is cool too, it makes it more human and fun. Again just as long as we follow simple moral code I think we'll all be ok. I have come to love this board and wish I knew all of you better but what's important is the diversity in styles just as long as there is not wrong doing. I would encourage you to post more often. There are plenty of opportunities to comment where in-depth knowledge isn't required, where all that's needed is a viewpoint. And it doesn't always have to be informed, provided it's considered. The advantage of posting over being a spectator is that it encourages people to think more and better formulate their thoughts โ in order to express those thoughts persuasively. As a regular test for myself when considering a work of art, I assume I've been asked by someone who's completely blind, "Why exactly do you like or dislike this piece?" And if I'm unable to come up with a reasonably prompt, coherent answer, then that's a clear sign I'm being lazy and just not thinking hard enough. Identifying the specific reasons one has for holding an opinion is crucial, because it then allows you to argue against yourself and spot potential weaknesses in your own position. That's key to a certain self-awareness. It helps a person recognise to what extent their opinions can withstand scrutiny by others with different views. And therefore to decide whether those opinions need reassessing, refining, or abandoning altogether. Lack of physical exercise results in healthy individuals losing their strength, speed, agility and grace. Similar things happen to brains left on autopilot. Failing to challenge or question oneself makes smart people become more stupid and close-minded. You see this often with otherwise capable individuals who are out of practice in the art of debate. Their arguments become less sophisticated, not as well thought through, and they react more slowly. In frustration, they may even turn to cheap distraction tactics to gain advantage, like ad hominems โ the last resort of the screaming wounded.
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mishen
New Member
Posts โข 309
Likes โข 104
February 2015
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For Sales Thread Improvements , by mishen on Mar 4, 2016 14:29:57 GMT 1, I appreciate that. Maybe I should get more involved, I'm on this site more than any other the past year ha. Thanks for the note of encouragement.
I appreciate that. Maybe I should get more involved, I'm on this site more than any other the past year ha. Thanks for the note of encouragement.
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toshspice
New Member
Posts โข 676
Likes โข 877
January 2006
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For Sales Thread Improvements , by toshspice on Mar 5, 2016 8:57:22 GMT 1, I have mentioned before that I think that the introduction of the "like" button reduced comment and discussion on the forum. It's too easy to just like a post. I am guilty of doing it myself. If the like button were not there, then I think people would be more likely to comment on posts. And in doing so, are, I think, unlikely to simply say "I like what you said there" and are more likely to say why, thus encouraging debate and discussion. Whilst it is undoubtedly pleasant to receive a like to ones post, it is more stimulating to receive a comment. This is an excellent point which I also take into account, so it's embarrassing that I failed to raise it. The 'Like Post' facility is certainly convenient, allowing for rapid and public expressions of approval. But whether due to time constraints or other reasons, members may be inclined to limit their input on a thread to just Liking other posts. The result is a restricted number of participants in a discussion โ which in turn restricts the breadth, depth, and therefore potential benefits of the exchange. Here's an additional danger, one that I myself often fall victim to: The very act of agreeing with someone occasionally serves as a signal to the brain that it can now relax and stop thinking about a subject matter, the discussion having been brought to a convenient close. In this respect, agreement in the form of Likes may encourage intellectual laziness and the dulling of one's critical faculties.
I disagree. I think if you hit the 'like' button you are acknowledging something that doesn't necessarily need a direct comment. And that should be encouraged.
If you feel strongly enough to write something, then you'll write it.
Just because you comment doesn't mean you are automatically adding anything useful to the forum. If anything I would encourage people to think more and write less.
I have mentioned before that I think that the introduction of the "like" button reduced comment and discussion on the forum. It's too easy to just like a post. I am guilty of doing it myself. If the like button were not there, then I think people would be more likely to comment on posts. And in doing so, are, I think, unlikely to simply say "I like what you said there" and are more likely to say why, thus encouraging debate and discussion. Whilst it is undoubtedly pleasant to receive a like to ones post, it is more stimulating to receive a comment. This is an excellent point which I also take into account, so it's embarrassing that I failed to raise it. The 'Like Post' facility is certainly convenient, allowing for rapid and public expressions of approval. But whether due to time constraints or other reasons, members may be inclined to limit their input on a thread to just Liking other posts. The result is a restricted number of participants in a discussion โ which in turn restricts the breadth, depth, and therefore potential benefits of the exchange. Here's an additional danger, one that I myself often fall victim to: The very act of agreeing with someone occasionally serves as a signal to the brain that it can now relax and stop thinking about a subject matter, the discussion having been brought to a convenient close. In this respect, agreement in the form of Likes may encourage intellectual laziness and the dulling of one's critical faculties. I disagree. I think if you hit the 'like' button you are acknowledging something that doesn't necessarily need a direct comment. And that should be encouraged. If you feel strongly enough to write something, then you'll write it. Just because you comment doesn't mean you are automatically adding anything useful to the forum. If anything I would encourage people to think more and write less.
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Dr Plip
Junior Member
Posts โข 7,043
Likes โข 8,981
August 2011
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For Sales Thread Improvements , by Dr Plip on Mar 5, 2016 10:51:54 GMT 1, This is an excellent point which I also take into account, so it's embarrassing that I failed to raise it. The 'Like Post' facility is certainly convenient, allowing for rapid and public expressions of approval. But whether due to time constraints or other reasons, members may be inclined to limit their input on a thread to just Liking other posts. The result is a restricted number of participants in a discussion โ which in turn restricts the breadth, depth, and therefore potential benefits of the exchange. Here's an additional danger, one that I myself often fall victim to: The very act of agreeing with someone occasionally serves as a signal to the brain that it can now relax and stop thinking about a subject matter, the discussion having been brought to a convenient close. In this respect, agreement in the form of Likes may encourage intellectual laziness and the dulling of one's critical faculties. I disagree. I think if you hit the 'like' button you are acknowledging something that doesn't necessarily need a direct comment. And that should be encouraged. If you feel strongly enough to write something, then you'll write it. Just because you comment doesn't mean you are automatically adding anything useful to the forum. If anything I would encourage people to think more and write less. I like this comment.
This is an excellent point which I also take into account, so it's embarrassing that I failed to raise it. The 'Like Post' facility is certainly convenient, allowing for rapid and public expressions of approval. But whether due to time constraints or other reasons, members may be inclined to limit their input on a thread to just Liking other posts. The result is a restricted number of participants in a discussion โ which in turn restricts the breadth, depth, and therefore potential benefits of the exchange. Here's an additional danger, one that I myself often fall victim to: The very act of agreeing with someone occasionally serves as a signal to the brain that it can now relax and stop thinking about a subject matter, the discussion having been brought to a convenient close. In this respect, agreement in the form of Likes may encourage intellectual laziness and the dulling of one's critical faculties. I disagree. I think if you hit the 'like' button you are acknowledging something that doesn't necessarily need a direct comment. And that should be encouraged. If you feel strongly enough to write something, then you'll write it. Just because you comment doesn't mean you are automatically adding anything useful to the forum. If anything I would encourage people to think more and write less. I like this comment.
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chrisell66
New Member
Posts โข 117
Likes โข 80
February 2012
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For Sales Thread Improvements , by chrisell66 on Mar 5, 2016 15:09:20 GMT 1, I can see and agree with both sides of the Like button discussion - or is that just sitting on the fence?
It has value when its just a joke/sarcy comment that makes you laugh - equally when you have nothing to add to what's been posted but agree with the argument/sentiment then its a useful tool - certainly better than repeating what's already been said without adding anything.
But as with all social media just clicking rather than engaging properly adds little - but there's a balance. I can think about what's been said and click like - if I have anything to add or it prompts a thought worth sharing then I'd reply.
I can see and agree with both sides of the Like button discussion - or is that just sitting on the fence?
It has value when its just a joke/sarcy comment that makes you laugh - equally when you have nothing to add to what's been posted but agree with the argument/sentiment then its a useful tool - certainly better than repeating what's already been said without adding anything.
But as with all social media just clicking rather than engaging properly adds little - but there's a balance. I can think about what's been said and click like - if I have anything to add or it prompts a thought worth sharing then I'd reply.
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met
Junior Member
Posts โข 2,782
Likes โข 6,706
June 2009
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For Sales Thread Improvements , by met on Mar 5, 2016 16:50:09 GMT 1, This is an excellent point which I also take into account, so it's embarrassing that I failed to raise it. The 'Like Post' facility is certainly convenient, allowing for rapid and public expressions of approval. But whether due to time constraints or other reasons, members may be inclined to limit their input on a thread to just Liking other posts. The result is a restricted number of participants in a discussion โ which in turn restricts the breadth, depth, and therefore potential benefits of the exchange. Here's an additional danger, one that I myself often fall victim to: The very act of agreeing with someone occasionally serves as a signal to the brain that it can now relax and stop thinking about a subject matter, the discussion having been brought to a convenient close. In this respect, agreement in the form of Likes may encourage intellectual laziness and the dulling of one's critical faculties. I disagree. I think if you hit the 'like' button you are acknowledging something that doesn't necessarily need a direct comment. And that should be encouraged. If you feel strongly enough to write something, then you'll write it. Just because you comment doesn't mean you are automatically adding anything useful to the forum. If anything I would encourage people to think more and write less. Thanks for this. The additional thoughts are appreciated.
I fear my comments may have come across as absolutist. That wasn't the intention. While recognising the advantages of the 'Like Post' button, the idea was to also highlight its risks.
When I like what a person says or writes, the temptation is to leave things there. So it's often necessary to force my brain to keep working. I may share someone's view in broad terms, but that's no reason to stop asking questions: Under what circumstances would I disagree? How would I qualify their position? What additional points should be raised? What points already made should be more heavily stressed?
That whole process can be tiresome, but I believe it's important to continue being inquisitive. And there's a danger that Liking a post will encourage a person to feel, "That's enough; I can now move on to another subject" โ when perhaps they should instead be delving more deeply.
A specific example relates to the standard recommendation to new collectors, "Buy what you like". Generally speaking this is sound guidance. It's therefore tempting to quickly press 'Like Post' after reading it. But that advice may be spouted out unthinkingly, and none of the accompanying Likes will include caveats.
Highly-enthusiastic art fans may have significant sums in the bank or access to large amounts of credit. By nature they may be impatient and keen to build their collections quickly. They might also be completely inexperienced, with no real knowledge of art history. Perhaps they've never opened an art book, or rarely set foot in a museum, gallery, auction house viewing area, pop-up show, art fair or art festival. Consequently, they'll be incapable of discriminating. They won't be in a position to distinguish between innovative art and the hackneyed or derivative.
Now, advising such novice enthusiasts to buy what they like โ without qualification โ is not only irresponsible but imbecilic. A potential recipe for disaster, since it can easily lead to them spending three or four-figure sums on works by Mr Brainwash, Bambi, Martin Whatson or JJ Adams. After speaking to dealers (with vested interests and stock to offload) or to other collectors who've never attended a graduate degree show or visited an artist's studio, they might even believe they're making a safe financial investment.
It was only seven or eight years ago that some members here were hoping the likes of SPQR, Prefab77, Ripper1331, L.E.T., BAM, GVD et alia might be the next Banksy. But try telling them at the time they were making expensive purchase mistakes. You'd be as popular as the guy questioning subprime mortgages in 2006, when all the banks and brokers were still raking in the cash. These collectors weren't necessarily stupid either, just ignorant and inexperienced. They've since learnt, like the rest of us continue to learn. Everyone here is a permanent student.
Regarding the point in your last paragraph, I agree wholeheartedly โ despite being guilty myself of reader-unfriendly posts like this one that are far too long.
You could compare the forum to a flea market, where it's necessary to sift through plenty of dross before discovering the occasional gem. It's why my attention focuses on certain members whose posts I find consistently interesting, and the remainder I'll often ignore.
This is an excellent point which I also take into account, so it's embarrassing that I failed to raise it. The 'Like Post' facility is certainly convenient, allowing for rapid and public expressions of approval. But whether due to time constraints or other reasons, members may be inclined to limit their input on a thread to just Liking other posts. The result is a restricted number of participants in a discussion โ which in turn restricts the breadth, depth, and therefore potential benefits of the exchange. Here's an additional danger, one that I myself often fall victim to: The very act of agreeing with someone occasionally serves as a signal to the brain that it can now relax and stop thinking about a subject matter, the discussion having been brought to a convenient close. In this respect, agreement in the form of Likes may encourage intellectual laziness and the dulling of one's critical faculties. I disagree. I think if you hit the 'like' button you are acknowledging something that doesn't necessarily need a direct comment. And that should be encouraged. If you feel strongly enough to write something, then you'll write it. Just because you comment doesn't mean you are automatically adding anything useful to the forum. If anything I would encourage people to think more and write less. Thanks for this. The additional thoughts are appreciated. I fear my comments may have come across as absolutist. That wasn't the intention. While recognising the advantages of the 'Like Post' button, the idea was to also highlight its risks. When I like what a person says or writes, the temptation is to leave things there. So it's often necessary to force my brain to keep working. I may share someone's view in broad terms, but that's no reason to stop asking questions: Under what circumstances would I disagree? How would I qualify their position? What additional points should be raised? What points already made should be more heavily stressed?That whole process can be tiresome, but I believe it's important to continue being inquisitive. And there's a danger that Liking a post will encourage a person to feel, "That's enough; I can now move on to another subject" โ when perhaps they should instead be delving more deeply. A specific example relates to the standard recommendation to new collectors, "Buy what you like". Generally speaking this is sound guidance. It's therefore tempting to quickly press 'Like Post' after reading it. But that advice may be spouted out unthinkingly, and none of the accompanying Likes will include caveats. Highly-enthusiastic art fans may have significant sums in the bank or access to large amounts of credit. By nature they may be impatient and keen to build their collections quickly. They might also be completely inexperienced, with no real knowledge of art history. Perhaps they've never opened an art book, or rarely set foot in a museum, gallery, auction house viewing area, pop-up show, art fair or art festival. Consequently, they'll be incapable of discriminating. They won't be in a position to distinguish between innovative art and the hackneyed or derivative. Now, advising such novice enthusiasts to buy what they like โ without qualification โ is not only irresponsible but imbecilic. A potential recipe for disaster, since it can easily lead to them spending three or four-figure sums on works by Mr Brainwash, Bambi, Martin Whatson or JJ Adams. After speaking to dealers (with vested interests and stock to offload) or to other collectors who've never attended a graduate degree show or visited an artist's studio, they might even believe they're making a safe financial investment. It was only seven or eight years ago that some members here were hoping the likes of SPQR, Prefab77, Ripper1331, L.E.T., BAM, GVD et alia might be the next Banksy. But try telling them at the time they were making expensive purchase mistakes. You'd be as popular as the guy questioning subprime mortgages in 2006, when all the banks and brokers were still raking in the cash. These collectors weren't necessarily stupid either, just ignorant and inexperienced. They've since learnt, like the rest of us continue to learn. Everyone here is a permanent student. Regarding the point in your last paragraph, I agree wholeheartedly โ despite being guilty myself of reader-unfriendly posts like this one that are far too long. You could compare the forum to a flea market, where it's necessary to sift through plenty of dross before discovering the occasional gem. It's why my attention focuses on certain members whose posts I find consistently interesting, and the remainder I'll often ignore.
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agu
New Member
Posts โข 317
Likes โข 332
February 2016
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For Sales Thread Improvements , by agu on Mar 13, 2016 14:37:20 GMT 1, Great to see the discussion about newbie sales thread. As a newbie I have been really impressed by the quality of discussion and debate on all topics so I offer this POV.
"More people selling their art here acts a service to the members, even if they do not contribute to the debate" 1) We get first dibs on the work before the wider world. 2) If the seller is know and get support postings from others we can be more confident 3) Comments from the more clued up members help to warn of dangers: fakes/overpricing/condition etc
At the end of the day if someone just wants to offload great art, I'm happy to get the chance to bag it before some dealer/flipper.
The more the community acts like a community, vs discussion on sales threads warnings, endorsements etc, the community benefits from choice AND information which is a real advantage. 1 post wonders will have to provide realistic prices and more assurances to get their sales vs established trusted members.
The guardians/senior members et al should not bear the responsibility for policing but I can honestly say when I see a positive or negative comment from a 6 star 6,599 posting member it carries considerable weight for me at any rate which would ultimately affect the buy/no buy or the final price. So in that sense the seller benefits from being a contributing member.
Net net : no rules required...but I do enjoy seeing people flamed. Does that make me a bad person?
Great to see the discussion about newbie sales thread. As a newbie I have been really impressed by the quality of discussion and debate on all topics so I offer this POV.
"More people selling their art here acts a service to the members, even if they do not contribute to the debate" 1) We get first dibs on the work before the wider world. 2) If the seller is know and get support postings from others we can be more confident 3) Comments from the more clued up members help to warn of dangers: fakes/overpricing/condition etc
At the end of the day if someone just wants to offload great art, I'm happy to get the chance to bag it before some dealer/flipper.
The more the community acts like a community, vs discussion on sales threads warnings, endorsements etc, the community benefits from choice AND information which is a real advantage. 1 post wonders will have to provide realistic prices and more assurances to get their sales vs established trusted members.
The guardians/senior members et al should not bear the responsibility for policing but I can honestly say when I see a positive or negative comment from a 6 star 6,599 posting member it carries considerable weight for me at any rate which would ultimately affect the buy/no buy or the final price. So in that sense the seller benefits from being a contributing member.
Net net : no rules required...but I do enjoy seeing people flamed. Does that make me a bad person?
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met
Junior Member
Posts โข 2,782
Likes โข 6,706
June 2009
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For Sales Thread Improvements , by met on Jul 16, 2021 22:43:50 GMT 1, Perhaps already a few months ago, the forum settings were altered.
Certain text that we type or paste into our posts is switched to different text as soon as we click the 'Create Post' button.
This has presumably been done through the 'Censored Words' section in the Admin Control Panel:
Each time they're posted by members, specified letter combinations and words, previously added to a Censored Word column, are now automatically changed to other words or phrases listed in a corresponding Replacement Word column.
The above facility offered by ProBoards is very helpful when used judiciously. It can, for example, help to prevent members from being at the receiving end of racial slurs.
Here, however, the impact of some additions to the Censored Word list wasn't fully thought through or stress tested beforehand. Moreover, there's also been a retroactive modification of the text in historical posts.
To the extent they happen to include letter combinations or words added to the Censored Word list, what has resulted from a number of these automated changes is:
(i) the corruption of URLs and BBCodes (for posted websites, photos, etc.);
(ii) the altering of forum member usernames; and
(iii) sentences within posts being rendered nonsensical.
Perhaps a reversal, back to the status quo ante, could be considered for some of these changes to the forum settings.
SAMPLE ILLUSTRATIONS:
1.
Censored Word: WTS Replacement Word: Want to Sell
Example of the practical impact:
"GLWTS" (the initialism for "Good luck with the sale") automatically changed to "GLWant to Sell"*
2.
Censored Word: fs Replacement Word: For Sale
Examples of the practical impact:
2.1 Image URL for a posted photo, i.ibb.co/hWPfsb7/IMG-8057.jpg, automatically changed (and thus corrupted) to i.ibb.co/hWPFor Saleb7/IMG-8057.jpg*
2.2 Username of @slangofslang automatically changed to slangoFor Salelang*
2.3 Username of @sufsean automatically changed to suFor Saleean*
2.4 Username of Fsgallery2011 (an abbreviation of Freedom Street Gallery 2011) automatically changed to For Salegallery2011*
2.5 "knock offs" automatically changed to "knock ofFor Sale"*
2.6 "one offs" automatically changed to "one ofFor Sale"*
2.7 "offset" (an offset lithograph) automatically changed to "ofFor Saleet"*
2.8 "beliefs" automatically changed to "belieFor Sale"*
2.9 "proofs" (as in printer's proofs, test proofs, studio proofs, etc.) automatically changed to "prooFor Sale"**
2.10 The UK furniture retailer, DFS, automatically changed to "DFor Sale"*
2.11 The cereal, Cocoa Puffs, automatically changed to "Cocoa PufFor Sale"*
3.
Censored Word: iso Replacement Word: In Search of
Example of the practical impact:
The Amsterdam club, Paradiso, automatically changed (unless immediately followed by a punctuation mark) to "ParadIn Search of"*
4.
Censored Word: bme Replacement Word: Bomb Middle England
Examples of the practical impact:
4.1 Username @submethod automatically changed to suBomb Middle Englandthod*
4.2 Username @bmerel automatically changed to Bomb Middle Englandrel*
Perhaps already a few months ago, the forum settings were altered. Certain text that we type or paste into our posts is switched to different text as soon as we click the 'Create Post' button. This has presumably been done through the 'Censored Words' section in the Admin Control Panel: Each time they're posted by members, specified letter combinations and words, previously added to a Censored Word column, are now automatically changed to other words or phrases listed in a corresponding Replacement Word column. The above facility offered by ProBoards is very helpful when used judiciously. It can, for example, help to prevent members from being at the receiving end of racial slurs. Here, however, the impact of some additions to the Censored Word list wasn't fully thought through or stress tested beforehand. Moreover, there's also been a retroactive modification of the text in historical posts. To the extent they happen to include letter combinations or words added to the Censored Word list, what has resulted from a number of these automated changes is: (i) the corruption of URLs and BBCodes (for posted websites, photos, etc.); (ii) the altering of forum member usernames; and (iii) sentences within posts being rendered nonsensical. Perhaps a reversal, back to the status quo ante, could be considered for some of these changes to the forum settings. SAMPLE ILLUSTRATIONS:1. Censored Word: WTSReplacement Word: Want to SellExample of the practical impact: "GLWTS" (the initialism for "Good luck with the sale") automatically changed to "GLWant to Sell"*2.Censored Word: fsReplacement Word: For SaleExamples of the practical impact: 2.1 Image URL for a posted photo, i.ibb.co/hWPfsb7/IMG-8057.jpg, automatically changed (and thus corrupted) to i.ibb.co/hWPFor Saleb7/IMG-8057.jpg*2.2 Username of @slangofslang automatically changed to slangoFor Salelang*2.3 Username of @sufsean automatically changed to suFor Saleean*2.4 Username of Fsgallery2011 (an abbreviation of Freedom Street Gallery 2011) automatically changed to For Salegallery2011*2.5 "knock offs" automatically changed to "knock ofFor Sale"*2.6 "one offs" automatically changed to "one ofFor Sale"*2.7 "offset" (an off set lithograph) automatically changed to "ofFor Saleet"*2.8 "beliefs" automatically changed to "belieFor Sale"*2.9 "proofs" (as in printer's proof s, test proof s, studio proof s, etc.) automatically changed to "prooFor Sale"**2.10 The UK furniture retailer, DF S, automatically changed to "DFor Sale"*2.11 The cereal, Cocoa Puff s, automatically changed to "Cocoa PufFor Sale"*3. Censored Word: isoReplacement Word: In Search ofExample of the practical impact: The Amsterdam club, Paradis o, automatically changed (unless immediately followed by a punctuation mark) to "ParadIn Search of"*4. Censored Word: bmeReplacement Word: Bomb Middle EnglandExamples of the practical impact: 4.1 Username @submethod automatically changed to suBomb Middle Englandthod*4.2 Username @bmerel automatically changed to Bomb Middle Englandrel*
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