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Banksy's Santas Ghetto Bethlehem, by ricosg11 on Dec 5, 2007 0:12:41 GMT 1, ill admit im not as brushed up on the subject as some of you, so I will do some reading on my own.
Val, obviously I would not think that was fair, but I dont think the situation is quite that black and white trolleys.
ill admit im not as brushed up on the subject as some of you, so I will do some reading on my own.
Val, obviously I would not think that was fair, but I dont think the situation is quite that black and white trolleys.
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Banksy's Santas Ghetto Bethlehem, by Coach on Dec 5, 2007 0:21:43 GMT 1, I edited a bit, but to say they are tanning and colonializing the region just doesnt make sense.. They arent murdering innocent people. P. They are tanning themselves, they have some lovely beaches and resorts, and yes, they're are murdering innocent people on a regular basis. I CJ Ruling, International Court of Justice, 2004(Keep in mind this is our court, not the Palestinians, not my opinion, but some of the worlds leading legal minds) A. By fourteen votes to one, The construction of the wall being built by Israel, the occupying Power, in the Occupied Palestinian Territory, including in and around East Jerusalem, and its associated régime, are contrary to international law; B. By fourteen votes to one, Israel is under an obligation to terminate its breaches of international law; it is under an obligation to cease forthwith the works of construction of the wall being built in the Occupied Palestinian Territory, including in and around East Jerusalem, to dismantle forthwith the structure therein situated, and to repeal or render ineffective forthwith all legislative and regulatory acts relating thereto, in accordance with paragraph 151 of this Opinion; C. By fourteen votes to one, Israel is under an obligation to make reparation for all damage caused by the construction of the wall in the Occupied Palestinian Territory, including in and around East Jerusalem; D. By thirteen votes to two, All States are under an obligation not to recognize the illegal situation resulting from the construction of the wall and not to render aid or assistance in maintaining the situation created by such construction; all States parties to the Fourth Geneva Convention relative to the Protection of Civilian Persons in Time of War of 12 August 1949 have in addition the obligation, while respecting the United Nations Charter and international law, to ensure compliance by Israel with international humanitarian law as embodied in that Convention; E. By fourteen votes to one, The United Nations, and especially the General Assembly and the Security Council, should consider what further action is required to bring to an end the illegal situation resulting from the construction of the wall and the associated régime, taking due account of the present Advisory Opinion Bedtime for bonzo Peace
this is why i think its spot on that sg is in bethlehem this year. it's put the wall back in the news. injusticies are reported, then slip out of public consciences and holding events like sg and the surrounding art going up on the wall, puts this back in the public domain for debate. its been on the tv news, the radio, in the papers etc. nice one pow/mr b ;D
I edited a bit, but to say they are tanning and colonializing the region just doesnt make sense.. They arent murdering innocent people. P. They are tanning themselves, they have some lovely beaches and resorts, and yes, they're are murdering innocent people on a regular basis. I CJ Ruling, International Court of Justice, 2004(Keep in mind this is our court, not the Palestinians, not my opinion, but some of the worlds leading legal minds) A. By fourteen votes to one, The construction of the wall being built by Israel, the occupying Power, in the Occupied Palestinian Territory, including in and around East Jerusalem, and its associated régime, are contrary to international law; B. By fourteen votes to one, Israel is under an obligation to terminate its breaches of international law; it is under an obligation to cease forthwith the works of construction of the wall being built in the Occupied Palestinian Territory, including in and around East Jerusalem, to dismantle forthwith the structure therein situated, and to repeal or render ineffective forthwith all legislative and regulatory acts relating thereto, in accordance with paragraph 151 of this Opinion; C. By fourteen votes to one, Israel is under an obligation to make reparation for all damage caused by the construction of the wall in the Occupied Palestinian Territory, including in and around East Jerusalem; D. By thirteen votes to two, All States are under an obligation not to recognize the illegal situation resulting from the construction of the wall and not to render aid or assistance in maintaining the situation created by such construction; all States parties to the Fourth Geneva Convention relative to the Protection of Civilian Persons in Time of War of 12 August 1949 have in addition the obligation, while respecting the United Nations Charter and international law, to ensure compliance by Israel with international humanitarian law as embodied in that Convention; E. By fourteen votes to one, The United Nations, and especially the General Assembly and the Security Council, should consider what further action is required to bring to an end the illegal situation resulting from the construction of the wall and the associated régime, taking due account of the present Advisory Opinion Bedtime for bonzo Peace this is why i think its spot on that sg is in bethlehem this year. it's put the wall back in the news. injusticies are reported, then slip out of public consciences and holding events like sg and the surrounding art going up on the wall, puts this back in the public domain for debate. its been on the tv news, the radio, in the papers etc. nice one pow/mr b ;D |
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Banksy's Santas Ghetto Bethlehem, by adamdavis on Dec 5, 2007 0:42:14 GMT 1, I'm not taking sides in the matter but id thought i would highlight the israeli view:
"There have been more than 70 Palestinian bomb attacks aimed at Israelis since the current conflict erupted in September 2000"
Its like having 7/7 over 70 times.
news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/1197051.stm
"The Fence has Proven Its Effectiveness Not a single Palestinian suicide bomber has entered Israel from the Gaza Strip"
"Furthermore, the overall decline in the number and lethality of attacks in 2003 – 30% less attacks and about 50% fewer killed compared to 2002 "
www.btselem.org/english/Separation_Barrier/Statistics.asp
Every one here seems to have intellectual views on the situation, how would you solve the problem of suicide bombings in a better fashion, or help the situation in the middle east?
Merry xmas
Adam
I'm not taking sides in the matter but id thought i would highlight the israeli view: "There have been more than 70 Palestinian bomb attacks aimed at Israelis since the current conflict erupted in September 2000" Its like having 7/7 over 70 times. news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/1197051.stm"The Fence has Proven Its Effectiveness Not a single Palestinian suicide bomber has entered Israel from the Gaza Strip" "Furthermore, the overall decline in the number and lethality of attacks in 2003 – 30% less attacks and about 50% fewer killed compared to 2002 " www.btselem.org/english/Separation_Barrier/Statistics.aspEvery one here seems to have intellectual views on the situation, how would you solve the problem of suicide bombings in a better fashion, or help the situation in the middle east? Merry xmas Adam |
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Banksy's Santas Ghetto Bethlehem, by johnas on Dec 5, 2007 0:43:34 GMT 1, can i just butt in here and say that more photos of the ghetto have been posted on flickr by the same guy as yesterday
www.flickr.com/photos/chevali/
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goffy
Junior Member
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November 2006
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Banksy's Santas Ghetto Bethlehem, by goffy on Dec 5, 2007 1:19:53 GMT 1, Well a few pictures on some walls have stirred up a big debate, which can't be bad. Israel is going to stay where it is despite being hated by everyone in the area. The arabs will not recognise Israel's right to exist and would happily destroy it if it could. The only reason Israel is still there is through America supporting it. Without that help there would be a genocide in that area. Does Israel have a right to exist, yes of course it does. Does Palestine have a right to live in peace with freedom of movement of course it does. The only answer is negotiation and for the arabs to accept that Israel is there for the duration. And Israel needs to accept that the Palestinians also have the right to exist from persecution. Right, now put your hands up if this time last week you wanted to go to Bethlehem for the experience and to feel their pain. Also, put your hands up if you are going to give a fuck after the 25th!
I wonder where Banksy will take us next year
Well a few pictures on some walls have stirred up a big debate, which can't be bad. Israel is going to stay where it is despite being hated by everyone in the area. The arabs will not recognise Israel's right to exist and would happily destroy it if it could. The only reason Israel is still there is through America supporting it. Without that help there would be a genocide in that area. Does Israel have a right to exist, yes of course it does. Does Palestine have a right to live in peace with freedom of movement of course it does. The only answer is negotiation and for the arabs to accept that Israel is there for the duration. And Israel needs to accept that the Palestinians also have the right to exist from persecution. Right, now put your hands up if this time last week you wanted to go to Bethlehem for the experience and to feel their pain. Also, put your hands up if you are going to give a fuck after the 25th!
I wonder where Banksy will take us next year
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Banksy's Santas Ghetto Bethlehem, by valeha on Dec 5, 2007 1:22:01 GMT 1, Santas ghetto, what Santas ghetto? lol. ;D
some really good pics there!
Santas ghetto, what Santas ghetto? lol. ;D
some really good pics there!
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Banksy's Santas Ghetto Bethlehem, by valeha on Dec 5, 2007 1:28:37 GMT 1, Well a few pictures on some walls have stirred up a big debate, which can't be bad. Israel is going to stay where it is despite being hated by everyone in the area. The arabs will not recognise Israel's right to exist and would happily destroy it if it could. The only reason Israel is still there is through America supporting it. Without that help there would be a genocide in that area. Does Israel have a right to exist, yes of course it does. Does Palestine have a right to live in peace with freedom of movement of course it does. The only answer is negotiation and for the arabs to accept that Israel is there for the duration. And Israel needs to accept that the Palestinians also have the right to exist from persecution. Right, now put your hands up if this time last week you wanted to go to Bethlehem for the experience and to feel their pain. Also, put your hands up if you are going to give a f**k after the 25th! I wonder where Banksy will take us next year
went there 3 years ago, will continue to care about it till the day I die. Israel EXISTS, it doesn't need recognition from anyone, Palestine on the other hand doesn't really exist, it's an occupied land...what needs recognition is a real Palestinian state, one or two state solution s debatable but this isn't an evenly balanced situation.
I'm not saying I don't recognise Israel, I do - I believe those who live there have a right to live in a nation in which they feel safe from the kind persecution they endured during the holocaust. At the same time I believe the Palestinians have a right to live in a land free from the torture they currently endure.
Peace
V
Well a few pictures on some walls have stirred up a big debate, which can't be bad. Israel is going to stay where it is despite being hated by everyone in the area. The arabs will not recognise Israel's right to exist and would happily destroy it if it could. The only reason Israel is still there is through America supporting it. Without that help there would be a genocide in that area. Does Israel have a right to exist, yes of course it does. Does Palestine have a right to live in peace with freedom of movement of course it does. The only answer is negotiation and for the arabs to accept that Israel is there for the duration. And Israel needs to accept that the Palestinians also have the right to exist from persecution. Right, now put your hands up if this time last week you wanted to go to Bethlehem for the experience and to feel their pain. Also, put your hands up if you are going to give a f**k after the 25th! I wonder where Banksy will take us next year went there 3 years ago, will continue to care about it till the day I die. Israel EXISTS, it doesn't need recognition from anyone, Palestine on the other hand doesn't really exist, it's an occupied land...what needs recognition is a real Palestinian state, one or two state solution s debatable but this isn't an evenly balanced situation. I'm not saying I don't recognise Israel, I do - I believe those who live there have a right to live in a nation in which they feel safe from the kind persecution they endured during the holocaust. At the same time I believe the Palestinians have a right to live in a land free from the torture they currently endure. Peace V |
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Banksy's Santas Ghetto Bethlehem, by headphonesex on Dec 5, 2007 1:31:09 GMT 1, I wonder where Banksy will take us next year
Guantanamo?
I wonder where Banksy will take us next year Guantanamo? |
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rolyateel
New Member
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October 2006
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Banksy's Santas Ghetto Bethlehem, by rolyateel on Dec 5, 2007 1:59:03 GMT 1, Every one here seems to have intellectual views on the situation, how would you solve the problem of suicide bombings in a better fashion, or help the situation in the middle east?
Force Isreal to acknowledge Palestine as a country & allow the Palestinians to run their own country without their neighbours butting in.
Oh, and make the disputed holy towns that have significance to more then one religion (Bethlehem / Jerusalem...are there more?) completly neutral under no one countries rule....with everyone regardless of creed / religion free to come & go as they please.
Oh, and make Isreal say "sorry" for treating a coutries people very badly for years when they really should know better
and no, I'm not anti-semetic either.
Every one here seems to have intellectual views on the situation, how would you solve the problem of suicide bombings in a better fashion, or help the situation in the middle east? Force Isreal to acknowledge Palestine as a country & allow the Palestinians to run their own country without their neighbours butting in. Oh, and make the disputed holy towns that have significance to more then one religion (Bethlehem / Jerusalem...are there more?) completly neutral under no one countries rule....with everyone regardless of creed / religion free to come & go as they please. Oh, and make Isreal say "sorry" for treating a coutries people very badly for years when they really should know better and no, I'm not anti-semetic either. |
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greeneny
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Banksy's Santas Ghetto Bethlehem, by greeneny on Dec 5, 2007 1:59:28 GMT 1, I hesitated to post this because I didn't think it was the place for this debate however after reading some posts that were so biased and worse just plain incorrect historically, I decided to add my 2 cents. Personally I think its tragic since many people from both sides truly want peace and do want to coexist. Israelis wouldn't have to kill anyone if they weren't constantly being attacked and they are and to deny it is to deny reality.
If the Arabs weren't bent on killing the Jews in 1948, they would have had exactly what they want now 60 years ago. It was their decision to reject it and their decision in most cases to leave to make way for what they believed would be victorious Arab armies. Then they believed, they would return to divvy up the Jews' loot and property. Anyone out there deny that?
Let us examine exactly what the Israelis said in their declaration in 1948:
From the "The Declaration Of The
Establishment Of The State Of Israel" May 14, 1948
"WE APPEAL — in the very midst of the onslaught launched against us now for months — to the Arab inhabitants of the State of Israel to preserve peace and participate in the building of the State on the basis of full and equal citizenship and due representation in all its provisional and permanent institutions."
And what was the response?
The Arabs living there have no one to blame for their predicament then themselves and their so called leaders. Does anyone here have any comments on 40 years of Arafat who ended his life with over a billion dollars in the bank and a widow who still receives 100,000 a month? Where did that money come from if not the pockets of his people who he was entrusted to represent.
It seems to me, it may have been advantageous for Arafat to continue things exactly as they were . And by the way Arafat was an Egyptian as were many of the "Palestinians"
As for the wall, it's reduced suicide bombing by almost 80% and for that its a great success. Almost all of what you see the Israelis do is a REACTION to what the Arabs have done first. Lets take the daily firing of rockets into Sderot. Do you think any country would put up with that from any neighboring country? What do you suppose the Russians would do if Chechnya fired rockets into their cities? What do you suppose the Brits would do if they had rockets fired into their cities? The citizens of Sderot demand that their government protect them and their families. Don't you think at some point, that's exactly what will happen? How many here won't even know that a year of rockets fired into Sderot was what led up to an Israeli military operation in Gaza when it happens and will only condemn Israel? So far there have been hundreds if not thousands of rockets and now mortar shells being fired into cities. What do you expect Israel to do? What would you want your government to do?
And finally, a point I always find interesting but can't seem to ever get an answer to. For decades Jordan occupied the West Bank and Egypt occupied Gaza. Why wasn't a single word ever spoken about these occupations? Is one occupation different form the other ? Why is "occupation" such an issue now when it was never an issue all the time Jordan and Egypt were the occupiers ?
I reiterate in case readers didn't get it the first time. Had the Arabs living there accepted the two state solution then, none of this would ever have happened. The Jews had as much right to be there and I submit more since they were in many cases majorities as they were in Hebron and Jerusalem and certainly many had been there for centuries. Half of Israel is made up NOT of European Jews but those Jews thrown out of surrounding Arab countries after 1948 mostly after having all their property stolen by those regimes, and absorbed into Israel while the Arabs who fled, many voluntarily, were deliberately not absorbed into any of the surrounding Arab countries but put in refugee camps so the issue would never die and where they still live today.
And if Israel and Israelis were really the bloodthirsty demons as some would have the rest of us believe and just want to kill innocent Palestinians, why is it those Arabs who stayed behind in 1948 have prospered in Israel as Israeli citizens? The Israeli Arab population has increased 9 fold since 1948. Why didn't they run from Israel when they could ? Why have they remained? Could it be they have decent lives and in most cases better then they could have in any of the surrounding Arab countries?
I submit this all about the usual racism and intolerance. Its about the same thing that just happened in Sudan, the same thing it was about when a newspaper published 12 cartoons, the same thing it was about when film maker Van Gogh was murdered in Amsterdam and so on and so on ... and those who deny that are also denying reality.
I hesitated to post this because I didn't think it was the place for this debate however after reading some posts that were so biased and worse just plain incorrect historically, I decided to add my 2 cents. Personally I think its tragic since many people from both sides truly want peace and do want to coexist. Israelis wouldn't have to kill anyone if they weren't constantly being attacked and they are and to deny it is to deny reality.
If the Arabs weren't bent on killing the Jews in 1948, they would have had exactly what they want now 60 years ago. It was their decision to reject it and their decision in most cases to leave to make way for what they believed would be victorious Arab armies. Then they believed, they would return to divvy up the Jews' loot and property. Anyone out there deny that?
Let us examine exactly what the Israelis said in their declaration in 1948:
From the "The Declaration Of The
Establishment Of The State Of Israel" May 14, 1948
"WE APPEAL — in the very midst of the onslaught launched against us now for months — to the Arab inhabitants of the State of Israel to preserve peace and participate in the building of the State on the basis of full and equal citizenship and due representation in all its provisional and permanent institutions."
And what was the response?
The Arabs living there have no one to blame for their predicament then themselves and their so called leaders. Does anyone here have any comments on 40 years of Arafat who ended his life with over a billion dollars in the bank and a widow who still receives 100,000 a month? Where did that money come from if not the pockets of his people who he was entrusted to represent.
It seems to me, it may have been advantageous for Arafat to continue things exactly as they were . And by the way Arafat was an Egyptian as were many of the "Palestinians"
As for the wall, it's reduced suicide bombing by almost 80% and for that its a great success. Almost all of what you see the Israelis do is a REACTION to what the Arabs have done first. Lets take the daily firing of rockets into Sderot. Do you think any country would put up with that from any neighboring country? What do you suppose the Russians would do if Chechnya fired rockets into their cities? What do you suppose the Brits would do if they had rockets fired into their cities? The citizens of Sderot demand that their government protect them and their families. Don't you think at some point, that's exactly what will happen? How many here won't even know that a year of rockets fired into Sderot was what led up to an Israeli military operation in Gaza when it happens and will only condemn Israel? So far there have been hundreds if not thousands of rockets and now mortar shells being fired into cities. What do you expect Israel to do? What would you want your government to do?
And finally, a point I always find interesting but can't seem to ever get an answer to. For decades Jordan occupied the West Bank and Egypt occupied Gaza. Why wasn't a single word ever spoken about these occupations? Is one occupation different form the other ? Why is "occupation" such an issue now when it was never an issue all the time Jordan and Egypt were the occupiers ?
I reiterate in case readers didn't get it the first time. Had the Arabs living there accepted the two state solution then, none of this would ever have happened. The Jews had as much right to be there and I submit more since they were in many cases majorities as they were in Hebron and Jerusalem and certainly many had been there for centuries. Half of Israel is made up NOT of European Jews but those Jews thrown out of surrounding Arab countries after 1948 mostly after having all their property stolen by those regimes, and absorbed into Israel while the Arabs who fled, many voluntarily, were deliberately not absorbed into any of the surrounding Arab countries but put in refugee camps so the issue would never die and where they still live today.
And if Israel and Israelis were really the bloodthirsty demons as some would have the rest of us believe and just want to kill innocent Palestinians, why is it those Arabs who stayed behind in 1948 have prospered in Israel as Israeli citizens? The Israeli Arab population has increased 9 fold since 1948. Why didn't they run from Israel when they could ? Why have they remained? Could it be they have decent lives and in most cases better then they could have in any of the surrounding Arab countries?
I submit this all about the usual racism and intolerance. Its about the same thing that just happened in Sudan, the same thing it was about when a newspaper published 12 cartoons, the same thing it was about when film maker Van Gogh was murdered in Amsterdam and so on and so on ... and those who deny that are also denying reality.
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scavos
Junior Member
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June 2007
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Banksy's Santas Ghetto Bethlehem, by scavos on Dec 5, 2007 2:18:42 GMT 1,
Cheers johnas. Some top pics in that link. I had no idea they'd put so much into it all. Which I could make it over, but sadly no way for me.
Cheers johnas. Some top pics in that link. I had no idea they'd put so much into it all. Which I could make it over, but sadly no way for me. |
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nombei
New Member
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September 2006
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Banksy's Santas Ghetto Bethlehem, by nombei on Dec 5, 2007 2:41:33 GMT 1, nice post greeneny.
i have been to israel a number of times for work and have heard people on both sides tell their story. it's pretty easy for either side to show pictures of death and misery and to twist things in their favor. unfortunately, the complexities of the issue, the blame that can be thrown at either side, the history of the region, etc only make me think the current situation will continue for some time to come.
that said, if people have the opportunity to visit Israel, i think they should do it (for Santa's Ghetto or otherwise). my company discourages us from going into the occupied areas, but i have been to Tel Aviv, Jerusalem and the Dead Sea and it's a pretty cool area to check out.
nice post greeneny.
i have been to israel a number of times for work and have heard people on both sides tell their story. it's pretty easy for either side to show pictures of death and misery and to twist things in their favor. unfortunately, the complexities of the issue, the blame that can be thrown at either side, the history of the region, etc only make me think the current situation will continue for some time to come.
that said, if people have the opportunity to visit Israel, i think they should do it (for Santa's Ghetto or otherwise). my company discourages us from going into the occupied areas, but i have been to Tel Aviv, Jerusalem and the Dead Sea and it's a pretty cool area to check out.
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goffy
Junior Member
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November 2006
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Banksy's Santas Ghetto Bethlehem, by goffy on Dec 5, 2007 4:36:01 GMT 1, When I was working in Saudi Arabia I was quite friendly with an arab Dr who worked in the same hospital, for six months we got on really well, he seemed like a nice guy. After six months I mentioned something about the troubles in Palestine, and I said 'why can't the arabs and the jews just get along' And he never spoke to me again. Could of been worse. I could have called mohammed a cunt.
When I was working in Saudi Arabia I was quite friendly with an arab Dr who worked in the same hospital, for six months we got on really well, he seemed like a nice guy. After six months I mentioned something about the troubles in Palestine, and I said 'why can't the arabs and the jews just get along' And he never spoke to me again. Could of been worse. I could have called mohammed a cunt.
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Banksy's Santas Ghetto Bethlehem, by hypovalaemic on Dec 5, 2007 9:02:45 GMT 1, I hesitated to post this because I didn't think it was the place for this debate however after reading some posts that were so biased and worse just plain incorrect historically, I decided to add my 2 cents. Personally I think its tragic since many people from both sides truly want peace and do want to coexist. Israelis wouldn't have to kill anyone if they weren't constantly being attacked and they are and to deny it is to deny reality. If the Arabs weren't bent on killing the Jews in 1948, they would have had exactly what they want now 60 years ago. It was their decision to reject it and their decision in most cases to leave to make way for what they believed would be victorious Arab armies. Then they believed, they would return to divvy up the Jews' loot and property. Anyone out there deny that? Let us examine exactly what the Israelis said in their declaration in 1948: From the "The Declaration Of The Establishment Of The State Of Israel" May 14, 1948 "WE APPEAL — in the very midst of the onslaught launched against us now for months — to the Arab inhabitants of the State of Israel to preserve peace and participate in the building of the State on the basis of full and equal citizenship and due representation in all its provisional and permanent institutions." And what was the response? The Arabs living there have no one to blame for their predicament then themselves and their so called leaders. Does anyone here have any comments on 40 years of Arafat who ended his life with over a billion dollars in the bank and a widow who still receives 100,000 a month? Where did that money come from if not the pockets of his people who he was entrusted to represent. It seems to me, it may have been advantageous for Arafat to continue things exactly as they were . And by the way Arafat was an Egyptian as were many of the "Palestinians" As for the wall, it's reduced suicide bombing by almost 80% and for that its a great success. Almost all of what you see the Israelis do is a REACTION to what the Arabs have done first. Lets take the daily firing of rockets into Sderot. Do you think any country would put up with that from any neighboring country? What do you suppose the Russians would do if Chechnya fired rockets into their cities? What do you suppose the Brits would do if they had rockets fired into their cities? The citizens of Sderot demand that their government protect them and their families. Don't you think at some point, that's exactly what will happen? How many here won't even know that a year of rockets fired into Sderot was what led up to an Israeli military operation in Gaza when it happens and will only condemn Israel? So far there have been hundreds if not thousands of rockets and now mortar shells being fired into cities. What do you expect Israel to do? What would you want your government to do? And finally, a point I always find interesting but can't seem to ever get an answer to. For decades Jordan occupied the West Bank and Egypt occupied Gaza. Why wasn't a single word ever spoken about these occupations? Is one occupation different form the other ? Why is "occupation" such an issue now when it was never an issue all the time Jordan and Egypt were the occupiers ? I reiterate in case readers didn't get it the first time. Had the Arabs living there accepted the two state solution then, none of this would ever have happened. The Jews had as much right to be there and I submit more since they were in many cases majorities as they were in Hebron and Jerusalem and certainly many had been there for centuries. Half of Israel is made up NOT of European Jews but those Jews thrown out of surrounding Arab countries after 1948 mostly after having all their property stolen by those regimes, and absorbed into Israel while the Arabs who fled, many voluntarily, were deliberately not absorbed into any of the surrounding Arab countries but put in refugee camps so the issue would never die and where they still live today. And if Israel and Israelis were really the bloodthirsty demons as some would have the rest of us believe and just want to kill innocent Palestinians, why is it those Arabs who stayed behind in 1948 have prospered in Israel as Israeli citizens? The Israeli Arab population has increased 9 fold since 1948. Why didn't they run from Israel when they could ? Why have they remained? Could it be they have decent lives and in most cases better then they could have in any of the surrounding Arab countries? I submit this all about the usual racism and intolerance. Its about the same thing that just happened in Sudan, the same thing it was about when a newspaper published 12 cartoons, the same thing it was about when film maker Van Gogh was murdered in Amsterdam and so on and so on ... and those who deny that are also denying reality.
A nice unbiased summary, if I could +10 I would! Its easy to forget that there are 2 sides to every story. I'd just like to add one of my favourite quotes:
"you never really know a man until you stand in his shoes and walk around in them"
I hesitated to post this because I didn't think it was the place for this debate however after reading some posts that were so biased and worse just plain incorrect historically, I decided to add my 2 cents. Personally I think its tragic since many people from both sides truly want peace and do want to coexist. Israelis wouldn't have to kill anyone if they weren't constantly being attacked and they are and to deny it is to deny reality. If the Arabs weren't bent on killing the Jews in 1948, they would have had exactly what they want now 60 years ago. It was their decision to reject it and their decision in most cases to leave to make way for what they believed would be victorious Arab armies. Then they believed, they would return to divvy up the Jews' loot and property. Anyone out there deny that? Let us examine exactly what the Israelis said in their declaration in 1948: From the "The Declaration Of The Establishment Of The State Of Israel" May 14, 1948 "WE APPEAL — in the very midst of the onslaught launched against us now for months — to the Arab inhabitants of the State of Israel to preserve peace and participate in the building of the State on the basis of full and equal citizenship and due representation in all its provisional and permanent institutions." And what was the response? The Arabs living there have no one to blame for their predicament then themselves and their so called leaders. Does anyone here have any comments on 40 years of Arafat who ended his life with over a billion dollars in the bank and a widow who still receives 100,000 a month? Where did that money come from if not the pockets of his people who he was entrusted to represent. It seems to me, it may have been advantageous for Arafat to continue things exactly as they were . And by the way Arafat was an Egyptian as were many of the "Palestinians" As for the wall, it's reduced suicide bombing by almost 80% and for that its a great success. Almost all of what you see the Israelis do is a REACTION to what the Arabs have done first. Lets take the daily firing of rockets into Sderot. Do you think any country would put up with that from any neighboring country? What do you suppose the Russians would do if Chechnya fired rockets into their cities? What do you suppose the Brits would do if they had rockets fired into their cities? The citizens of Sderot demand that their government protect them and their families. Don't you think at some point, that's exactly what will happen? How many here won't even know that a year of rockets fired into Sderot was what led up to an Israeli military operation in Gaza when it happens and will only condemn Israel? So far there have been hundreds if not thousands of rockets and now mortar shells being fired into cities. What do you expect Israel to do? What would you want your government to do? And finally, a point I always find interesting but can't seem to ever get an answer to. For decades Jordan occupied the West Bank and Egypt occupied Gaza. Why wasn't a single word ever spoken about these occupations? Is one occupation different form the other ? Why is "occupation" such an issue now when it was never an issue all the time Jordan and Egypt were the occupiers ? I reiterate in case readers didn't get it the first time. Had the Arabs living there accepted the two state solution then, none of this would ever have happened. The Jews had as much right to be there and I submit more since they were in many cases majorities as they were in Hebron and Jerusalem and certainly many had been there for centuries. Half of Israel is made up NOT of European Jews but those Jews thrown out of surrounding Arab countries after 1948 mostly after having all their property stolen by those regimes, and absorbed into Israel while the Arabs who fled, many voluntarily, were deliberately not absorbed into any of the surrounding Arab countries but put in refugee camps so the issue would never die and where they still live today. And if Israel and Israelis were really the bloodthirsty demons as some would have the rest of us believe and just want to kill innocent Palestinians, why is it those Arabs who stayed behind in 1948 have prospered in Israel as Israeli citizens? The Israeli Arab population has increased 9 fold since 1948. Why didn't they run from Israel when they could ? Why have they remained? Could it be they have decent lives and in most cases better then they could have in any of the surrounding Arab countries? I submit this all about the usual racism and intolerance. Its about the same thing that just happened in Sudan, the same thing it was about when a newspaper published 12 cartoons, the same thing it was about when film maker Van Gogh was murdered in Amsterdam and so on and so on ... and those who deny that are also denying reality. A nice unbiased summary, if I could +10 I would! Its easy to forget that there are 2 sides to every story. I'd just like to add one of my favourite quotes: "you never really know a man until you stand in his shoes and walk around in them" |
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BME
New Member
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December 2006
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Banksy's Santas Ghetto Bethlehem, by BME on Dec 5, 2007 9:31:19 GMT 1, Israel's occupation of Palestine and its continued incursion into and excision of Palestinian territory is one of the root causes of political unrest both in the Middle East and around the globe. The occupation is not only illegal (at International law) it also continues to create tension between muslims/ jews- christians throughout the middle east, africa, europe and asia.
In the current political climate the ongoing expansion of Israeli settlements frankly beggars belief. Why should the security of the world be put at risk for the benefit of a few hundred 'settlers' living in fortified encampments who have no right to the land that they have occupied anyway? We will continue to pay the price for Israel's occupation and for our own government's support of it until someone has the guts to force Israel back to its pre-1967 borders.
A bit of a rant I know but what's the point in having an opinion if you are never willing to express it!
Israel's occupation of Palestine and its continued incursion into and excision of Palestinian territory is one of the root causes of political unrest both in the Middle East and around the globe. The occupation is not only illegal (at International law) it also continues to create tension between muslims/ jews- christians throughout the middle east, africa, europe and asia.
In the current political climate the ongoing expansion of Israeli settlements frankly beggars belief. Why should the security of the world be put at risk for the benefit of a few hundred 'settlers' living in fortified encampments who have no right to the land that they have occupied anyway? We will continue to pay the price for Israel's occupation and for our own government's support of it until someone has the guts to force Israel back to its pre-1967 borders.
A bit of a rant I know but what's the point in having an opinion if you are never willing to express it!
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Banksy's Santas Ghetto Bethlehem, by barry cilit on Dec 5, 2007 9:52:52 GMT 1, This is a BIG social/political/religious onion!
I think people should forget about all this and remember Banksy intended this show to help the children! who to no fault of their own are born into this situation.
This is a BIG social/political/religious onion!
I think people should forget about all this and remember Banksy intended this show to help the children! who to no fault of their own are born into this situation.
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pezlow
Junior Member
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January 2007
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Banksy's Santas Ghetto Bethlehem, by pezlow on Dec 5, 2007 10:10:19 GMT 1, I'm no expert on the Middle East but have been to Israel, Palestine and Jordan and my thoughts and impressions are these.
Israel seems to be a country where the population has a high standard of living. People are well dressed, have all the latest IT gadgets and communications, drive fancy cars etc etc. It is, to all intents and purposes a flourishing country.
The contrast with Palestine is really difficult to comprehend where there is extreme poverty and really poor working and living conditions. I can't help but think that more than anything else this degree of inequality is at the root cause of many of the problems which exist. When you peel off the layers of the onion more often than not financial issues lie at the heart of the problem.
Also Jerusalem is a city of incredible culture clashes. We think of London being a multi-cultural city but Jersualem really is. Within the old town of Jerusalem you have the wailing wall, the dome of the rock and the church of the holy sepulchre within spitting distance of each other. They have huge cultural, historical and religious implications for Jews, Muslims and Christians respectively. In no other country or city in the world do you get these competing issues.
There really is no quick fix for this. The state of Israel was created with the very best intentions to give Jews a place to settle in a world where the most appalling and egregious genocide in history had just been perpetrated on them. This should not be forgotten.
Of course this doesn't justify Israel's subsequent actions and aggression but it is important to put these things in a historical context.
I have no idea what the solution is. Like it or not there are three cultures who all have a very good historical claim to this most holy of lands. Even a cynical atheist like me could not help but be moved by the spirituality that exists in Jersualem for all three of these faiths - hasidic jews praying at the wailing wall, christians spontaneously bursting out "our father" in the Church of the Holy Sepulcre, muslims going seemingly in their thousands to the dome of the rock.
There is no quick fix and noone is blameless.
I'm no expert on the Middle East but have been to Israel, Palestine and Jordan and my thoughts and impressions are these.
Israel seems to be a country where the population has a high standard of living. People are well dressed, have all the latest IT gadgets and communications, drive fancy cars etc etc. It is, to all intents and purposes a flourishing country.
The contrast with Palestine is really difficult to comprehend where there is extreme poverty and really poor working and living conditions. I can't help but think that more than anything else this degree of inequality is at the root cause of many of the problems which exist. When you peel off the layers of the onion more often than not financial issues lie at the heart of the problem.
Also Jerusalem is a city of incredible culture clashes. We think of London being a multi-cultural city but Jersualem really is. Within the old town of Jerusalem you have the wailing wall, the dome of the rock and the church of the holy sepulchre within spitting distance of each other. They have huge cultural, historical and religious implications for Jews, Muslims and Christians respectively. In no other country or city in the world do you get these competing issues.
There really is no quick fix for this. The state of Israel was created with the very best intentions to give Jews a place to settle in a world where the most appalling and egregious genocide in history had just been perpetrated on them. This should not be forgotten.
Of course this doesn't justify Israel's subsequent actions and aggression but it is important to put these things in a historical context.
I have no idea what the solution is. Like it or not there are three cultures who all have a very good historical claim to this most holy of lands. Even a cynical atheist like me could not help but be moved by the spirituality that exists in Jersualem for all three of these faiths - hasidic jews praying at the wailing wall, christians spontaneously bursting out "our father" in the Church of the Holy Sepulcre, muslims going seemingly in their thousands to the dome of the rock.
There is no quick fix and noone is blameless.
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Banksy's Santas Ghetto Bethlehem, by rhodesy2112 on Dec 5, 2007 10:38:15 GMT 1, "When I was working in Saudi Arabia I was quite friendly with an arab Dr who worked in the same hospital, for six months we got on really well, he seemed like a nice guy. After six months I mentioned something about the troubles in Palestine, and I said 'why can't the arabs and the jews just get along' And he never spoke to me again. Could of been worse. I could have called mohammed a c**t."
You worked in a hspital with Dr Who!!! How fucking cool is that!
"When I was working in Saudi Arabia I was quite friendly with an arab Dr who worked in the same hospital, for six months we got on really well, he seemed like a nice guy. After six months I mentioned something about the troubles in Palestine, and I said 'why can't the arabs and the jews just get along' And he never spoke to me again. Could of been worse. I could have called mohammed a c**t." You worked in a hspital with Dr Who!!! How fucking cool is that! |
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Banksy's Santas Ghetto Bethlehem, by insite on Dec 5, 2007 10:53:47 GMT 1, Respect what you are saying Valeha, I still think that living with the constant threat of suicide bombings would make anyone feel just a bit paranoid. If the Palestinians had the military power Israel would have been wiped off the map years ago, after all it is a tiny country with a population of only about 7 milion surrounded by enemies. Oh for f**ks sake.. The Israeli's are tanning themselves on the beaches of Tel Aviv whilst illegally occupying another country. They're in the process of making a massive colonial and illegal expansion into the West Bank under the pretense of "security measures". They're well on their way to building the worlds largest prison, thus depriving tens of thousands of a means of making a living from their own land. Imagine, a 400 mile equivalent of the Berlin wall, 400 hundred f**king miles !!! They're annexing all territories west of the wall (it intrudes more than 10 miles inside the green line), in effect creating a series of Ghetto's, (They should f**king know better). They have a very clear policy/strategy of ethnic cleansing in Jerusalem, continue to deny the legal right of return for Palestinian refugee's, consistently break international law and UN resolutions whilst violating the human rights of Palestinians on a daily basis. They propose that the Palestinian state or territory be constructed from the remnants of their occupied land left after the construction of the wall, in effect, a series of walled Ghetto's with machine gun towers. The Israel government commit these crimes with the tacit support of America and others in the West whilst actively intimidating anyone from mentioning it. I sincerely hope that one day, the people responsible for this wall, will be held accountable for these and other crimes too numerous to list, and hopefully one day soon.
Still haven't got time for reading all the posts and writing my own posts so once more I'll rely on the words of Nu. Wot he said twice.
Respect what you are saying Valeha, I still think that living with the constant threat of suicide bombings would make anyone feel just a bit paranoid. If the Palestinians had the military power Israel would have been wiped off the map years ago, after all it is a tiny country with a population of only about 7 milion surrounded by enemies. Oh for f**ks sake.. The Israeli's are tanning themselves on the beaches of Tel Aviv whilst illegally occupying another country. They're in the process of making a massive colonial and illegal expansion into the West Bank under the pretense of "security measures". They're well on their way to building the worlds largest prison, thus depriving tens of thousands of a means of making a living from their own land. Imagine, a 400 mile equivalent of the Berlin wall, 400 hundred f**king miles !!! They're annexing all territories west of the wall (it intrudes more than 10 miles inside the green line), in effect creating a series of Ghetto's, (They should f**king know better). They have a very clear policy/strategy of ethnic cleansing in Jerusalem, continue to deny the legal right of return for Palestinian refugee's, consistently break international law and UN resolutions whilst violating the human rights of Palestinians on a daily basis. They propose that the Palestinian state or territory be constructed from the remnants of their occupied land left after the construction of the wall, in effect, a series of walled Ghetto's with machine gun towers. The Israel government commit these crimes with the tacit support of America and others in the West whilst actively intimidating anyone from mentioning it. I sincerely hope that one day, the people responsible for this wall, will be held accountable for these and other crimes too numerous to list, and hopefully one day soon. Still haven't got time for reading all the posts and writing my own posts so once more I'll rely on the words of Nu. Wot he said twice. |
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sham69
New Member
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March 2007
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Banksy's Santas Ghetto Bethlehem, by sham69 on Dec 5, 2007 10:58:07 GMT 1, greeneny +1
Great to see the forum tackling the big picture from all sides.
Makes the question of will I/won't I get the new Banksy print seem a bit shallow.
This is in essence exactly why moving the ghetto to a more contentious location is a master stroke.
Awareness, debate, humanitarian aid et al. It may be a small gesture but I feel it's simply been done with the best of intentions.
Now how about having Santa's Ghetto in Chenobyl next year and then we can tackle the environmental issue?
greeneny +1
Great to see the forum tackling the big picture from all sides.
Makes the question of will I/won't I get the new Banksy print seem a bit shallow.
This is in essence exactly why moving the ghetto to a more contentious location is a master stroke.
Awareness, debate, humanitarian aid et al. It may be a small gesture but I feel it's simply been done with the best of intentions.
Now how about having Santa's Ghetto in Chenobyl next year and then we can tackle the environmental issue?
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reados
New Member
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June 2006
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Banksy's Santas Ghetto Bethlehem, by reados on Dec 5, 2007 11:07:20 GMT 1, greeneny +1 Great to see the forum tackling the big picture from all sides. Makes the question of will I/won't I get the new Banksy print seem a bit shallow. This is in essence exactly why moving the ghetto to a more contentious location is a master stroke. Awareness, debate, humanitarian aid et al. It may be a small gesture but I feel it's simply been done with the best of intentions. Now how about having Santa's Ghetto in Chenobyl next year and then we can tackle the environmental issue?
Flags printed on glow in the dark paper 
greeneny +1 Great to see the forum tackling the big picture from all sides. Makes the question of will I/won't I get the new Banksy print seem a bit shallow. This is in essence exactly why moving the ghetto to a more contentious location is a master stroke. Awareness, debate, humanitarian aid et al. It may be a small gesture but I feel it's simply been done with the best of intentions. Now how about having Santa's Ghetto in Chenobyl next year and then we can tackle the environmental issue? Flags printed on glow in the dark paper |
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mike hunt
New Member
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December 2006
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Banksy's Santas Ghetto Bethlehem, by mike hunt on Dec 5, 2007 11:39:47 GMT 1, The idea that the israel disputed territories are causing world destabilisation and anti-semitism is ridiculous - Israel is not to blame for most things that go on in the world and people will always dislike jews regardless. greeneny +1 here as well, for arguing the other side so well. I've been to these places and spent time with different people from there and just to give an idea of how complex the problem is - I asked an israeli if he agreed with the wall and his answer was 'I can get the bus without getting blown up'. Now if some people shout 'stop the occupation' and the others shout 'stop the terrorism' then we become a microcosm of the region. The answer is understanding. People with a loose idea of history seem very keen to blame. This doesn't help, and if you feel so strongly, then why not look at worse human right abuses closer to home - turkey for example? They have been at war with their kurdish population since the 90's, banning their language and their culture. People get arrested and disappear for expressing their views. Then there's their invasion and occupation of cyprus and cutting off trade with the greek side. I could go on. Why don't we all have an opinion about this as well?
The idea that the israel disputed territories are causing world destabilisation and anti-semitism is ridiculous - Israel is not to blame for most things that go on in the world and people will always dislike jews regardless. greeneny +1 here as well, for arguing the other side so well. I've been to these places and spent time with different people from there and just to give an idea of how complex the problem is - I asked an israeli if he agreed with the wall and his answer was 'I can get the bus without getting blown up'. Now if some people shout 'stop the occupation' and the others shout 'stop the terrorism' then we become a microcosm of the region. The answer is understanding. People with a loose idea of history seem very keen to blame. This doesn't help, and if you feel so strongly, then why not look at worse human right abuses closer to home - turkey for example? They have been at war with their kurdish population since the 90's, banning their language and their culture. People get arrested and disappear for expressing their views. Then there's their invasion and occupation of cyprus and cutting off trade with the greek side. I could go on. Why don't we all have an opinion about this as well?
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Banksy's Santas Ghetto Bethlehem, by jonpud on Dec 5, 2007 11:40:46 GMT 1, Guessin by the way this thread is going that Banksy and POW have acheived their aim of raising awareness for the region and encouraging valid debate.
Well done POW / Banksy, not high in my estimations for some time but can't ignore the good work done recently!!!
Respect and Peace!
Guessin by the way this thread is going that Banksy and POW have acheived their aim of raising awareness for the region and encouraging valid debate.
Well done POW / Banksy, not high in my estimations for some time but can't ignore the good work done recently!!!
Respect and Peace!
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Banksy's Santas Ghetto Bethlehem, by BunnyBoiler on Dec 5, 2007 12:00:14 GMT 1, The idea that the israel disputed territories are causing world destabilisation and anti-semitism is ridiculous - Israel is not to blame for most things that go on in the world and people will always dislike jews regardless. greeneny +1 here as well, for arguing the other side so well. I've been to these places and spent time with different people from there and just to give an idea of how complex the problem is - I asked an israeli if he agreed with the wall and his answer was 'I can get the bus without getting blown up'. Now if some people shout 'stop the occupation' and the others shout 'stop the terrorism' then we become a microcosm of the region. The answer is understanding. People with a loose idea of history seem very keen to blame. This doesn't help, and if you feel so strongly, then why not look at worse human right abuses closer to home - turkey for example? They have been at war with their kurdish population since the 90's, banning their language and their culture. People get arrested and disappear for expressing their views. Then there's their invasion and occupation of cyprus and cutting off trade with the greek side. I could go on. Why don't we all have an opinion about this as well?
I have to disagree with you. The Israel occupation of Palestine has handicaped the Arabs both Muslims and Christians. You would think after the Holocaust things would be different.
An example.. I have family there.
All 5 children, mother, father and grand parents were made to leave there home thats they built and lived in for a year then left on the street. They got there home bulldozed by israel army with everything in it because they didn't have permission to build the house on the Land they owned for years. The reason they didn't have permission is because the israel government wouldn't grant them the permission for the build.
Its a no win situation for the Palestine Arabs.
The idea that the israel disputed territories are causing world destabilisation and anti-semitism is ridiculous - Israel is not to blame for most things that go on in the world and people will always dislike jews regardless. greeneny +1 here as well, for arguing the other side so well. I've been to these places and spent time with different people from there and just to give an idea of how complex the problem is - I asked an israeli if he agreed with the wall and his answer was 'I can get the bus without getting blown up'. Now if some people shout 'stop the occupation' and the others shout 'stop the terrorism' then we become a microcosm of the region. The answer is understanding. People with a loose idea of history seem very keen to blame. This doesn't help, and if you feel so strongly, then why not look at worse human right abuses closer to home - turkey for example? They have been at war with their kurdish population since the 90's, banning their language and their culture. People get arrested and disappear for expressing their views. Then there's their invasion and occupation of cyprus and cutting off trade with the greek side. I could go on. Why don't we all have an opinion about this as well? I have to disagree with you. The Israel occupation of Palestine has handicaped the Arabs both Muslims and Christians. You would think after the Holocaust things would be different. An example.. I have family there. All 5 children, mother, father and grand parents were made to leave there home thats they built and lived in for a year then left on the street. They got there home bulldozed by israel army with everything in it because they didn't have permission to build the house on the Land they owned for years. The reason they didn't have permission is because the israel government wouldn't grant them the permission for the build. Its a no win situation for the Palestine Arabs. |
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mike hunt
New Member
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December 2006
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Banksy's Santas Ghetto Bethlehem, by mike hunt on Dec 5, 2007 12:01:50 GMT 1, negged for that but it was worth it! I haven't negged anyone for their view on this thread, no matter how much i disagreed - I've just taken it on board and opened up a discussion. Seems like discussion isn't wanted in some areas. Are we becoming a microcosm of the problem? How ironic is that - we can't even sort out this thread, let alone the region!
negged for that but it was worth it! I haven't negged anyone for their view on this thread, no matter how much i disagreed - I've just taken it on board and opened up a discussion. Seems like discussion isn't wanted in some areas. Are we becoming a microcosm of the problem? How ironic is that - we can't even sort out this thread, let alone the region!
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sham69
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March 2007
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Banksy's Santas Ghetto Bethlehem, by sham69 on Dec 5, 2007 12:24:23 GMT 1, Have one back Mike.
Failure to engage in a rational discussion cannot be compensated by camouflaged negging.
kinda reminds me of Homer Simpson with regards to some peoples' perspective on a reasoned point of view.
Homer: Kids, you tried your best and you failed miserably. The lesson is, never try.
(just neg)
Have one back Mike.
Failure to engage in a rational discussion cannot be compensated by camouflaged negging.
kinda reminds me of Homer Simpson with regards to some peoples' perspective on a reasoned point of view.
Homer: Kids, you tried your best and you failed miserably. The lesson is, never try.
(just neg)
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Vsix
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December 2006
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Banksy's Santas Ghetto Bethlehem, by Vsix on Dec 5, 2007 12:31:00 GMT 1, BanksyNotorious graffiti artist Banksy received the stamp of approval from the establishment after his latest work was praised by MPs. Banksy recently targeted the Holy Land with a series of stencilled works on the security wall in Bethlehem. Veteran Labour MP Gerald Kaufman (Manchester Gorton) tabled a motion saying that his depictions were a far more accurate portrayal of life in the Holy Land than the images presented by the Israeli government.
This has to be a success! great that Banksy has swiftly brought the situation in the Palastine/Israel back into peoples minds at this time of year!!
BanksyNotorious graffiti artist Banksy received the stamp of approval from the establishment after his latest work was praised by MPs. Banksy recently targeted the Holy Land with a series of stencilled works on the security wall in Bethlehem. Veteran Labour MP Gerald Kaufman (Manchester Gorton) tabled a motion saying that his depictions were a far more accurate portrayal of life in the Holy Land than the images presented by the Israeli government. This has to be a success! great that Banksy has swiftly brought the situation in the Palastine/Israel back into peoples minds at this time of year!! |
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Banksy's Santas Ghetto Bethlehem, by shogun on Dec 5, 2007 13:04:04 GMT 1, Its funny how people are defending Israel's actions. Is anyone defending Nazi Germany? What do you expect the Palestinians to do roll over and die? One mans terrorist... As for Israel - some of their factions were even considered terrorists by Britain (wiki Stern gang. They were even awarded medals years later).
Who are these people on the forum? Justification of the wall? Street art is becoming less 'street' by the minute!
Nice one NU for keeping it real. I think a lot of members are getting their facts from the likes of Fox News.
Its funny how people are defending Israel's actions. Is anyone defending Nazi Germany? What do you expect the Palestinians to do roll over and die? One mans terrorist... As for Israel - some of their factions were even considered terrorists by Britain (wiki Stern gang. They were even awarded medals years later).
Who are these people on the forum? Justification of the wall? Street art is becoming less 'street' by the minute!
Nice one NU for keeping it real. I think a lot of members are getting their facts from the likes of Fox News.
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loucastel
Junior Member
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October 2007
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Banksy's Santas Ghetto Bethlehem, by loucastel on Dec 5, 2007 13:11:49 GMT 1, Its funny how people are defending Israel's actions. Is anyone defending Nazi Germany? What do you expect the Palestinians to do roll over and die? One mans terrorist... As for Israel - some of their factions were even considered terrorists by Britain (wiki Stern gang. They were even awarded medals years later). Who are these people on the forum? Justification of the wall? Street art is becoming less 'street' by the minute! Nice one NU for keeping it real. I think a lot of members are getting their facts from the likes of Fox News.
Its funny how people are defending Israel's actions. Is anyone defending Nazi Germany? What do you expect the Palestinians to do roll over and die? One mans terrorist... As for Israel - some of their factions were even considered terrorists by Britain (wiki Stern gang. They were even awarded medals years later). Who are these people on the forum? Justification of the wall? Street art is becoming less 'street' by the minute! Nice one NU for keeping it real. I think a lot of members are getting their facts from the likes of Fox News. wow what a crass statement it seems that Israel is now being put on a par with nazi germany. |
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Banksy's Santas Ghetto Bethlehem, by BunnyBoiler on Dec 5, 2007 13:16:09 GMT 1, When I was working in Saudi Arabia I was quite friendly with an arab Dr who worked in the same hospital, for six months we got on really well, he seemed like a nice guy. After six months I mentioned something about the troubles in Palestine, and I said 'why can't the arabs and the jews just get along' And he never spoke to me again. Could of been worse. .
hmm I don't think its because you mentioned troubles in Palestine.
I have also lived in Saudi and people there love discussing politics and specifically Palestine. Are you sure you didn't do something else?
When I was working in Saudi Arabia I was quite friendly with an arab Dr who worked in the same hospital, for six months we got on really well, he seemed like a nice guy. After six months I mentioned something about the troubles in Palestine, and I said 'why can't the arabs and the jews just get along' And he never spoke to me again. Could of been worse. . hmm I don't think its because you mentioned troubles in Palestine. I have also lived in Saudi and people there love discussing politics and specifically Palestine. Are you sure you didn't do something else? |
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How fucking cool is that!
