Myself and probably a lot of israelis think that this specific type of action is wrong and should stop. However, there are valid points on both sides and only dialogue and real committment to compromise can fix the situation. Shogun - I think your comment was way OTT and unhelpful. I'm not going to neg you or comment further on it.

without wanting to condone anything that is going on in the middle east, good or bad, that comment about nazi germany is fucking disgusting. i hope to all eternity that neither yourself, your family or anyone you ever know or care about has to ever experience anything even close to what happened during the holocaust.

sick cunt.

Bunnyboiler it happened exactly as I said. I remember because I was there.

History is like a lenticular it all depends on where you stand as to what you see, I encourage debate and think that it is more than healthy. (I would imagine there to be negs from both sides which i think is rather petty). But facts are facts and for every Israeli that have died there are 3-4 Palestinians, this is a one sided conflict summed up by the image of a small child armed only with a simple rock against the might of a tank.

I am not anti-Israel or anti Jewish I am against Zionism, the founders of Zionism were non religious Jews, who knew full well that by setting up shop on someone Else's land they would need the backing of the superpower of the day, thats why they originally were in talks with the Ottomans, then British and later the Americans.

Israel has become something of a imperial watchdog for US interests and the billions of dollars of funding that has been supplied to them by America has not come without strings, the tail certainly doesn't wag the dog.

Israel is not the chosen home for the Jewish people, of course it is projected as the Jewish homeland but there are more Jews in New York than there are in Israel, after the war most came to Britain and America. Ben Gurion was once quoted as saying that if all the Jewish children of Nazi Germany could be saved by coming to America and england, or half be saved and brought to Israel he would opt for the later.

the hypocrisy of the state of Israel runs deep, it is a country that has 200 nuclear bombs yet threatens to nuke Iran (which does not have one see the IEAA, and before you go well Ahmadinejad said... he said he wanted to wipe Zionism or the map not Israel, just like America wanted to wipe communism from the map not Russia, ideology not people). It kidnapped Mordecai Vanunu from Italy and locked him up for 18 years 12 in solitary confinement for telling the world that they had nuclear weapons when it is illegal for them to have them, he has been released but cannot leave the country and is now facing another 6 month prison term for just talking to foreigners.

A country that has flouted over 250 UN resolutions, a country that maliciously bombed Lebanon back to the stone age. A country that gave no concessions to Mr moderate Mahmoud Abbas and then wondered why they woke up to Hamas, (by the way there was no Hamas twenty years ago, instead of negotiating with the nationalist organizations, they went to war with them even encouraging groups like Hamas as a counter weight, see divide and rule). Now they wont negotiate with Hamas even though they have offered a 16 year truce, won a democratic election (brought forward on behalf of the Americans, but hey they chose the wrong party!) they have been starved of finance's and now find themselves at war by an American and Israeli funded Fatah (roll reversal!). Now we have Islamic Jihad and Al-Queda getting a foot hold in Palestine. what will the next twenty years have in store?

Most Palestinians resist non violently just by surviving, raising a family and getting on with life in the hope that one day they will be free of such conditions and have a place they can call home. When democratically you cannot change policy, when you march, protest, elect and beg for change but it is shunned, then people will turn to other means, when the ballot does not work the bullet always comes calling.

One side holds nearly all the cards, financially, internationally and military.

Until there is justice there will never be peace

All I want is Peace, All they want is peace.

Salaam, Shalom

Further Reading

Avi Shlaim - Iron wall
Noam Chomsky - Fateful triangle
Walter Laquere - The History of Zionism
Cathrine Cook, Adam Nanieh and Adam Kay- Stolen Youth, the politics of Israel's detention of Palestinian children
John Rose - The Myth's of Zionism
Robert Fisk - Pity the Nation
Norman G Finkelstein - Image and reality of the Israel-Palestine conflict

DVD's

John Pilger - Palestine is still the issue
James Miller and Saira Shah - Death in Gaza

Wish you would get upset for the Palestinian situation half as much as you are for that comment. Then maybe things would change.

that's just a little un-called for. i'll readily admit i don't know enough about the situation and i'm reading up what i can so i know the full facts and can make an informed decision based on what i learn.

the holocaust is a lot more black and white, there aren't two sides to that story, there are 6 million reasons for me to kick off at that sense-less wanker.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Holocaust

Yeah and top post Bob1

100% agree. We are no better and alot of places are worse and rarely mentioned or condemned. Politicians talk rubbish all over the world and news reports are sensationalist - its people that matter, and the majority just want to get on and get along.

Merci

This is an important issue, well done to all involved in this debate, don't take my word for it, or anyone else's. All I ask is to constantly question, read up and research. Scratch away at the surface to reveal a past that was always yet never.

For love

Bob

more pictures - new ones - here:
www.santasghetto.com/show_blog.asp

.....and hot sister too!! ;D

i love that attitude bob, really do. i'm waiting to be able to + again but will be sure to send one your way, a couple of excellent posts.

theres obviously some site updating going on today
can anyone smell an online release yet??

ooo eer, just come back online after I posted my boycotting Israeli products post, what a debate! which is good and I guess the whole point of the ghetto being in Palestine.

I must make it quite clear I'm not anti Jewish, it's the state of Israel's behaviour over many years which I abhor, it's been truly terrible and UN resolutions aren't acted upon, I can't understand why not. So it's not surprising that the Palestinians are left fighting the only way they're left with, stone throwing and primitive suicide bombs are hardly any match for fighter bombers, bulldozers, helicopter gunships and even if required nuclear weapons that their oppressors have.

I haven't just made my mind up about this overnight on flimsy information, it's something I've followed for over 20 years, if anything during that time the situation seems to be getting worse, the wall being yet the latest last straw.