Pawel
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Mr. Dob Murakami ComplexCon, by Pawel on Nov 5, 2017 21:41:24 GMT 1, The app is geo-based, and you have to be in the designated drop zone in order to access the sale. For this drop you needed to be near the convention center (complexCon) in Long Beach, CA...or spoofed your phones GPS settings. And you need IOS and you need Apple Pay so you need to live in a country that has that enabled.. Only US at the moment I think... It looks like this will be an open edition... so we will all be able to get one in a few days ;-) Europe countries where Apple Pay is supported (not all banks though): Denmark Isle of Man Spain
Finland Italy Sweden
France Jersey Switzerland
Guernsey Russia United Kingdom
Ireland San Marino
Vatican City
The app is geo-based, and you have to be in the designated drop zone in order to access the sale. For this drop you needed to be near the convention center (complexCon) in Long Beach, CA...or spoofed your phones GPS settings. And you need IOS and you need Apple Pay so you need to live in a country that has that enabled.. Only US at the moment I think... It looks like this will be an open edition... so we will all be able to get one in a few days ;-) Europe countries where Apple Pay is supported (not all banks though): Denmark Isle of Man Spain Finland Italy Sweden France Jersey Switzerland Guernsey Russia United Kingdom Ireland San Marino Vatican City
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J0NNY
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Mr. Dob Murakami ComplexCon, by J0NNY on Nov 6, 2017 1:20:05 GMT 1,
I need one of those surfboards !! Does anyone have any information on it?
I need one of those surfboards !! Does anyone have any information on it?
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greeceboy
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Mr. Dob Murakami ComplexCon, by greeceboy on Nov 6, 2017 1:43:25 GMT 1, I had to buy dob on ebay for high price
I had to buy dob on ebay for high price
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nobokov
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Mr. Dob Murakami ComplexCon, by nobokov on Nov 6, 2017 1:45:13 GMT 1, I had to buy dob on ebay for high price Did the shooter put the gun down after you got the email confirmation?
I had to buy dob on ebay for high price Did the shooter put the gun down after you got the email confirmation?
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greeceboy
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Mr. Dob Murakami ComplexCon, by greeceboy on Nov 6, 2017 1:52:20 GMT 1, I do not understand you
I do not understand you
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Express Post
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Mr. Dob Murakami ComplexCon, by Express Post on Nov 6, 2017 2:45:16 GMT 1,
What they mean is, were you forced into making the purchase?
What they mean is, were you forced into making the purchase?
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Express Post
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Mr. Dob Murakami ComplexCon, by Express Post on Nov 6, 2017 2:51:53 GMT 1, Anyway, all items that were released through Frenzy were available to anyone in the world without having to attend Complexcon. You just needed to know how to do it. I was on the east coast of Australia at the time and saw it with my own eyes. That's all I'll say.
Anyway, all items that were released through Frenzy were available to anyone in the world without having to attend Complexcon. You just needed to know how to do it. I was on the east coast of Australia at the time and saw it with my own eyes. That's all I'll say.
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Mr. Dob Murakami ComplexCon, by Dexter Bulldog on Nov 6, 2017 3:24:06 GMT 1, Anyway, all items that were released through Frenzy were available to anyone in the world without having to attend Complexcon. You just needed to know how to do it. I was on the east coast of Australia at the time and saw it with my own eyes. That's all I'll say. consider me a tech noob.. i screwed up, still willing to pay someone smarter than i
Anyway, all items that were released through Frenzy were available to anyone in the world without having to attend Complexcon. You just needed to know how to do it. I was on the east coast of Australia at the time and saw it with my own eyes. That's all I'll say. consider me a tech noob.. i screwed up, still willing to pay someone smarter than i
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J0NNY
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Mr. Dob Murakami ComplexCon, by J0NNY on Nov 6, 2017 4:15:00 GMT 1, What were the prices of the Madeski vs Murakami prints please? Thanks
What were the prices of the Madeski vs Murakami prints please? Thanks
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aibohphobia
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Mr. Dob Murakami ComplexCon, by aibohphobia on Nov 6, 2017 4:30:24 GMT 1, What were the prices of the Madeski vs Murakami prints please? Thanks
600 plus tax
What were the prices of the Madeski vs Murakami prints please? Thanks 600 plus tax
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aibohphobia
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Mr. Dob Murakami ComplexCon, by aibohphobia on Nov 6, 2017 4:32:10 GMT 1, Anyway, all items that were released through Frenzy were available to anyone in the world without having to attend Complexcon. You just needed to know how to do it. I was on the east coast of Australia at the time and saw it with my own eyes. That's all I'll say.
Someone was asking me for some of the app info so they could get it from a different state. I know it was Shopify and Iโm sure you could find some browser extension for it.
However it was frustrating that there were locations on the floor that were not considered the drop zone. Cost me a print by having to keep moving around trying to get it to work.
Anyway, all items that were released through Frenzy were available to anyone in the world without having to attend Complexcon. You just needed to know how to do it. I was on the east coast of Australia at the time and saw it with my own eyes. That's all I'll say. Someone was asking me for some of the app info so they could get it from a different state. I know it was Shopify and Iโm sure you could find some browser extension for it. However it was frustrating that there were locations on the floor that were not considered the drop zone. Cost me a print by having to keep moving around trying to get it to work.
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J0NNY
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Mr. Dob Murakami ComplexCon, by J0NNY on Nov 6, 2017 6:20:32 GMT 1, What were the prices of the Madeski vs Murakami prints please? Thanks 600 plus tax
Thanks mate
What were the prices of the Madeski vs Murakami prints please? Thanks 600 plus tax Thanks mate
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Mr. Dob Murakami ComplexCon, by Lord Lucas Roham on Nov 6, 2017 8:42:17 GMT 1, OK, just off WhatsApp with my colleague, he attended ComplexCon as a VIP through Adidas and has a number of industry connections. Confirmed numbers from him, it turns out the $500 is an edition of 2000 and the $750 is an edition of 1500. So higher than last year. He said demand was crazy but managed to secure both via a 'VIP' list.
Apologies for my previous post where I stated it was open edition.
Gonna try and cop one from eBay, prices will drop as the majority will have been purchased by flippers so potentially 3000+ will hit the market.
OK, just off WhatsApp with my colleague, he attended ComplexCon as a VIP through Adidas and has a number of industry connections. Confirmed numbers from him, it turns out the $500 is an edition of 2000 and the $750 is an edition of 1500. So higher than last year. He said demand was crazy but managed to secure both via a 'VIP' list.
Apologies for my previous post where I stated it was open edition.
Gonna try and cop one from eBay, prices will drop as the majority will have been purchased by flippers so potentially 3000+ will hit the market.
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Express Post
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Mr. Dob Murakami ComplexCon, by Express Post on Nov 6, 2017 9:10:14 GMT 1, OK, just off WhatsApp with my colleague, he attended ComplexCon as a VIP through Adidas and has a number of industry connections. Confirmed numbers from him, it turns out the $500 is an edition of 2000 and the $750 is an edition of 1500. So higher than last year. He said demand was crazy but managed to secure both via a 'VIP' list. Apologies for my previous post where I stated it was open edition. Gonna try and cop one from eBay, prices will drop as the majority will have been purchased by flippers so potentially 3000+ will hit the market.
Those who bought Dobs from last year will be very pleased. Especially when you consider the edition size, price and ease of checking out.
OK, just off WhatsApp with my colleague, he attended ComplexCon as a VIP through Adidas and has a number of industry connections. Confirmed numbers from him, it turns out the $500 is an edition of 2000 and the $750 is an edition of 1500. So higher than last year. He said demand was crazy but managed to secure both via a 'VIP' list. Apologies for my previous post where I stated it was open edition. Gonna try and cop one from eBay, prices will drop as the majority will have been purchased by flippers so potentially 3000+ will hit the market. Those who bought Dobs from last year will be very pleased. Especially when you consider the edition size, price and ease of checking out.
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nobokov
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Mr. Dob Murakami ComplexCon, by nobokov on Nov 6, 2017 9:36:07 GMT 1, If thats true, those are Insane edition sizes. Complexcon's greed just increases exponentially yearly. If suckers continue to buy this year, editions will be 3000 and priced at $1500.
If thats true, those are Insane edition sizes. Complexcon's greed just increases exponentially yearly. If suckers continue to buy this year, editions will be 3000 and priced at $1500.
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Pawel
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Mr. Dob Murakami ComplexCon, by Pawel on Nov 6, 2017 10:30:14 GMT 1, If thats true, those are Insane edition sizes. Complexcon's greed just increases exponentially yearly. If suckers continue to buy this year, editions will be 3000 and priced at $1500.
I remember last year there were available online for a couple of hours with no purchase limit. Maybe most flippers focus on more proven items like skateboards. These year seeing the secondary market everyone went after them. For the complexcom being greedy, I'm not sure. It almost feels like they were testing the market. The market seems to be much bigger then they had expected so increasing the edition size and price seems natural. Only thing as is that last year edition size was specified on the website and this year I think it wasn't.
If thats true, those are Insane edition sizes. Complexcon's greed just increases exponentially yearly. If suckers continue to buy this year, editions will be 3000 and priced at $1500. I remember last year there were available online for a couple of hours with no purchase limit. Maybe most flippers focus on more proven items like skateboards. These year seeing the secondary market everyone went after them. For the complexcom being greedy, I'm not sure. It almost feels like they were testing the market. The market seems to be much bigger then they had expected so increasing the edition size and price seems natural. Only thing as is that last year edition size was specified on the website and this year I think it wasn't.
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Matt
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Mr. Dob Murakami ComplexCon, by Matt on Nov 6, 2017 10:43:51 GMT 1, Last year's look much better I think, this year's are cool but overdone...
Edition is big, and a huge portion are bought to flip judging by eBay, so these will be affordable in a few months time
Last year's look much better I think, this year's are cool but overdone...
Edition is big, and a huge portion are bought to flip judging by eBay, so these will be affordable in a few months time
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Mr. Dob Murakami ComplexCon, by Lord Lucas Roham on Nov 6, 2017 11:17:49 GMT 1, If thats true, those are Insane edition sizes. Complexcon's greed just increases exponentially yearly. If suckers continue to buy this year, editions will be 3000 and priced at $1500. Last year the edition size was clearly advertised on both Bait, Complexcon shop and additionally a number of lifestyle blogs, given the numbers this year then no wonder they haven't advertised it.
If thats true, those are Insane edition sizes. Complexcon's greed just increases exponentially yearly. If suckers continue to buy this year, editions will be 3000 and priced at $1500. Last year the edition size was clearly advertised on both Bait, Complexcon shop and additionally a number of lifestyle blogs, given the numbers this year then no wonder they haven't advertised it.
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Express Post
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Mr. Dob Murakami ComplexCon, by Express Post on Nov 6, 2017 12:33:34 GMT 1, If thats true, those are Insane edition sizes. Complexcon's greed just increases exponentially yearly. If suckers continue to buy this year, editions will be 3000 and priced at $1500. I remember last year there were available online for a couple of hours with no purchase limit. Maybe most flippers focus on more proven items like skateboards. These year seeing the secondary market everyone went after them. For the complexcom being greedy, I'm not sure. It almost feels like they were testing the market. The market seems to be much bigger then they had expected so increasing the edition size and price seems natural. Only thing as is that last year edition size was specified on the website and this year I think it wasn't.
There was a lot of doubt about these last year. An unsigned, unnumbered Ltd edt sculpture, coupled with a lengthy delivery date. And this was before the condition issues were realised.
But if you were comfortable enough to shell out for one set and wait out the eventual delivery (replacement process included), you did OK.
For us that are old enough, Murakami blew up back in 2008 at auction with his Lonesome Cowboy sculpture. He was collected by the older generation. As you can see, the release last year was to a new crowd, a predominantly sneaker/streetwear culture not known for their art collecting. I feel that in general, their awareness up to this point of contemporary artists would be limited to the artists that have collaborated with brands like Kaws, Banksy, Koons, Futura and Murakami just to name a few. Also they would most definitely include the artists mentioned in Jay-Zs lyrics like Picasso, Basquiat, Warhol. But if I were to mention to them about Kiefer, Kippenberger, Oehlen, Trockel, Viola, the YBAs and (insert literally hundreds of contemporary artists' names in here) they would probably recognise only about a handful of them.
So in a way, this mixture of commerce and art can help expand the art scene, even if the money sullies art.
If thats true, those are Insane edition sizes. Complexcon's greed just increases exponentially yearly. If suckers continue to buy this year, editions will be 3000 and priced at $1500. I remember last year there were available online for a couple of hours with no purchase limit. Maybe most flippers focus on more proven items like skateboards. These year seeing the secondary market everyone went after them. For the complexcom being greedy, I'm not sure. It almost feels like they were testing the market. The market seems to be much bigger then they had expected so increasing the edition size and price seems natural. Only thing as is that last year edition size was specified on the website and this year I think it wasn't. There was a lot of doubt about these last year. An unsigned, unnumbered Ltd edt sculpture, coupled with a lengthy delivery date. And this was before the condition issues were realised. But if you were comfortable enough to shell out for one set and wait out the eventual delivery (replacement process included), you did OK. For us that are old enough, Murakami blew up back in 2008 at auction with his Lonesome Cowboy sculpture. He was collected by the older generation. As you can see, the release last year was to a new crowd, a predominantly sneaker/streetwear culture not known for their art collecting. I feel that in general, their awareness up to this point of contemporary artists would be limited to the artists that have collaborated with brands like Kaws, Banksy, Koons, Futura and Murakami just to name a few. Also they would most definitely include the artists mentioned in Jay-Zs lyrics like Picasso, Basquiat, Warhol. But if I were to mention to them about Kiefer, Kippenberger, Oehlen, Trockel, Viola, the YBAs and (insert literally hundreds of contemporary artists' names in here) they would probably recognise only about a handful of them. So in a way, this mixture of commerce and art can help expand the art scene, even if the money sullies art.
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Deleted
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Mr. Dob Murakami ComplexCon, by Deleted on Nov 6, 2017 13:16:21 GMT 1, There are people already sending back the "NEW/Refurbished" DOBs to Bait already for quality issues. The new DOBs are still messed up. Yes, even after waiting a year for them... I would be very cautions about these new releases. So far Bait, Complexcon, and Murakamai have not treated their customers very well over the past couple of years. All his prints you can buy at Perrotin for almost the same price he releases them at museums and galleries. Those prints have been sitting on Perrotin's site for years but the same print gets released at complexcon or a museum it sell out in a second. It feels to me Murakami is trying to expand his brand a lot right now while loosing quality in the actual work or pieces.
There are people already sending back the "NEW/Refurbished" DOBs to Bait already for quality issues. The new DOBs are still messed up. Yes, even after waiting a year for them... I would be very cautions about these new releases. So far Bait, Complexcon, and Murakamai have not treated their customers very well over the past couple of years. All his prints you can buy at Perrotin for almost the same price he releases them at museums and galleries. Those prints have been sitting on Perrotin's site for years but the same print gets released at complexcon or a museum it sell out in a second. It feels to me Murakami is trying to expand his brand a lot right now while loosing quality in the actual work or pieces.
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coller
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Mr. Dob Murakami ComplexCon, by coller on Nov 6, 2017 14:07:58 GMT 1, OK, just off WhatsApp with my colleague, he attended ComplexCon as a VIP through Adidas and has a number of industry connections. Confirmed numbers from him, it turns out the $500 is an edition of 2000 and the $750 is an edition of 1500. So higher than last year. He said demand was crazy but managed to secure both via a 'VIP' list. Edition of 2,000 / 1,500? Jesus, Murakami figure market isn't that big. Already 100+ on eBay so I guess that makes sense.
OK, just off WhatsApp with my colleague, he attended ComplexCon as a VIP through Adidas and has a number of industry connections. Confirmed numbers from him, it turns out the $500 is an edition of 2000 and the $750 is an edition of 1500. So higher than last year. He said demand was crazy but managed to secure both via a 'VIP' list. Edition of 2,000 / 1,500? Jesus, Murakami figure market isn't that big. Already 100+ on eBay so I guess that makes sense.
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Mr. Dob Murakami ComplexCon, by Lord Lucas Roham on Nov 6, 2017 15:09:26 GMT 1, OK, just off WhatsApp with my colleague, he attended ComplexCon as a VIP through Adidas and has a number of industry connections. Confirmed numbers from him, it turns out the $500 is an edition of 2000 and the $750 is an edition of 1500. So higher than last year. He said demand was crazy but managed to secure both via a 'VIP' list. Edition of 2,000 / 1,500? Jesus, Murakami figure market isn't that big. Already 100+ on eBay so I guess that makes sense. Yep, they are cashing in big time.
Given the QC issues last time I'd suggest that these are a risky buy for any flipper.
I can see these settling at not much over cost and by the time you factor in shipping, eBay / PayPal fees etc, profit, if anything will be minimal.
OK, just off WhatsApp with my colleague, he attended ComplexCon as a VIP through Adidas and has a number of industry connections. Confirmed numbers from him, it turns out the $500 is an edition of 2000 and the $750 is an edition of 1500. So higher than last year. He said demand was crazy but managed to secure both via a 'VIP' list. Edition of 2,000 / 1,500? Jesus, Murakami figure market isn't that big. Already 100+ on eBay so I guess that makes sense. Yep, they are cashing in big time. Given the QC issues last time I'd suggest that these are a risky buy for any flipper. I can see these settling at not much over cost and by the time you factor in shipping, eBay / PayPal fees etc, profit, if anything will be minimal.
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soupy
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Mr. Dob Murakami ComplexCon, by soupy on Nov 6, 2017 15:17:12 GMT 1, is there any chance that the new sculptures make their way online like last year? or were they all presold at the event?
is there any chance that the new sculptures make their way online like last year? or were they all presold at the event?
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Pawel
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Mr. Dob Murakami ComplexCon, by Pawel on Nov 6, 2017 15:31:49 GMT 1, is there any chance that the new sculptures make their way online like last year? or were they all presold at the event? Last year they were all presold at the event as well. To prevent queueing the had a "secret" link to the bait online store that got leaked. There was no seperate online drop for people not attending.
This time instead of the link the items were available through an app. My understanding is that the app shows available in your area based on GPS reading from your device. It still is an online drop technically. Other thingis some people used different apps to alter their GPS system so the app believed they are at the location. Just look for fake GPS in the app store.
This is my understanding at least. Hope that helps.
is there any chance that the new sculptures make their way online like last year? or were they all presold at the event? Last year they were all presold at the event as well. To prevent queueing the had a "secret" link to the bait online store that got leaked. There was no seperate online drop for people not attending. This time instead of the link the items were available through an app. My understanding is that the app shows available in your area based on GPS reading from your device. It still is an online drop technically. Other thingis some people used different apps to alter their GPS system so the app believed they are at the location. Just look for fake GPS in the app store. This is my understanding at least. Hope that helps.
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theblank
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Mr. Dob Murakami ComplexCon, by theblank on Nov 6, 2017 15:35:11 GMT 1, Everyone is going crazy about the sculptures (which will definitely drop in price) and I'm over here picking up all the prints I wanted at the MCA shop at retail prices. I'm kinda surprised they are still in stock
Everyone is going crazy about the sculptures (which will definitely drop in price) and I'm over here picking up all the prints I wanted at the MCA shop at retail prices. I'm kinda surprised they are still in stock
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Pawel
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Mr. Dob Murakami ComplexCon, by Pawel on Nov 6, 2017 15:44:01 GMT 1, Everyone is going crazy about the sculptures (which will definitely drop in price) and I'm over here picking up all the prints I wanted at the MCA shop at retail prices. I'm kinda surprised they are still in stock The are two problems with the MCA prints. - they will ship to USA only - there are too many of them, all the different colour editions, it feels like you will be able to pick one up anytime you like. That said I'm quite surprised "Hands Clasped" is still available. This forum used to sell out everything
Everyone is going crazy about the sculptures (which will definitely drop in price) and I'm over here picking up all the prints I wanted at the MCA shop at retail prices. I'm kinda surprised they are still in stock The are two problems with the MCA prints. - they will ship to USA only - there are too many of them, all the different colour editions, it feels like you will be able to pick one up anytime you like. That said I'm quite surprised "Hands Clasped" is still available. This forum used to sell out everything
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Mr. Dob Murakami ComplexCon, by Happy Shopper on Nov 6, 2017 15:56:16 GMT 1, Everyone is going crazy about the sculptures (which will definitely drop in price) and I'm over here picking up all the prints I wanted at the MCA shop at retail prices. I'm kinda surprised they are still in stock The are two problems with the MCA prints. - they will ship to USA only - there are too many of them, all the different colour editions, it feels like you will be able to pick one up anytime you like. That said I'm quite surprised "Hands Clasped" is still available. This forum used to sell out everything There's also prints on the Perrotin website for very little more... and maybe some cheaper. Murakami knocks out prints in editions of 300 at a steady rate, so they often pop up in auctions for little more than cost usually. Nice though!
Everyone is going crazy about the sculptures (which will definitely drop in price) and I'm over here picking up all the prints I wanted at the MCA shop at retail prices. I'm kinda surprised they are still in stock The are two problems with the MCA prints. - they will ship to USA only - there are too many of them, all the different colour editions, it feels like you will be able to pick one up anytime you like. That said I'm quite surprised "Hands Clasped" is still available. This forum used to sell out everything There's also prints on the Perrotin website for very little more... and maybe some cheaper. Murakami knocks out prints in editions of 300 at a steady rate, so they often pop up in auctions for little more than cost usually. Nice though!
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nobokov
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Mr. Dob Murakami ComplexCon, by nobokov on Nov 6, 2017 15:57:29 GMT 1, Everyone is going crazy about the sculptures (which will definitely drop in price) and I'm over here picking up all the prints I wanted at the MCA shop at retail prices. I'm kinda surprised they are still in stock I'm not too surprised about that. I'm still put off after MCA raised their prices twice on their prints during for the past three drops. The first release had incredible pricing but now they're pretty much in line with perrotin's if you're not an MCA member. Also, it's a bit annoying that each variant is priced a bit differently based on desirability. All that being said, it makes sense for the museum to maximize returns and that's great for the museum.
Everyone is going crazy about the sculptures (which will definitely drop in price) and I'm over here picking up all the prints I wanted at the MCA shop at retail prices. I'm kinda surprised they are still in stock I'm not too surprised about that. I'm still put off after MCA raised their prices twice on their prints during for the past three drops. The first release had incredible pricing but now they're pretty much in line with perrotin's if you're not an MCA member. Also, it's a bit annoying that each variant is priced a bit differently based on desirability. All that being said, it makes sense for the museum to maximize returns and that's great for the museum.
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theblank
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Mr. Dob Murakami ComplexCon, by theblank on Nov 6, 2017 16:02:58 GMT 1, Everyone is going crazy about the sculptures (which will definitely drop in price) and I'm over here picking up all the prints I wanted at the MCA shop at retail prices. I'm kinda surprised they are still in stock The are two problems with the MCA prints. - they will ship to USA only - there are too many of them, all the different colour editions, it feels like you will be able to pick one up anytime you like. That said I'm quite surprised "Hands Clasped" is still available. This forum used to sell out everything That one is sold out. I got one before they sold out. That's a shame they only ship to the US. I wouldn't mind reshipping them for cost if any forum members wanted one. I even have the membership so the discount would apply, but i think it's one design per household but two of the three I bought are already sold out.
Everyone is going crazy about the sculptures (which will definitely drop in price) and I'm over here picking up all the prints I wanted at the MCA shop at retail prices. I'm kinda surprised they are still in stock The are two problems with the MCA prints. - they will ship to USA only - there are too many of them, all the different colour editions, it feels like you will be able to pick one up anytime you like. That said I'm quite surprised "Hands Clasped" is still available. This forum used to sell out everything That one is sold out. I got one before they sold out. That's a shame they only ship to the US. I wouldn't mind reshipping them for cost if any forum members wanted one. I even have the membership so the discount would apply, but i think it's one design per household but two of the three I bought are already sold out.
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touchdowntodd
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Mr. Dob Murakami ComplexCon, by touchdowntodd on Nov 6, 2017 16:09:20 GMT 1, ย ย The are two problems with the MCA prints. - they will ship to USA only - there are too many of them, all the different colour editions, it feels like you will be able to pick one up anytime you like. That said I'm quite surprised "Hands Clasped" is still available. This forum used to sell out everything That one is sold out.ย I got one before they sold out.ย That's a shame they only ship to the US. I wouldn't mind reshipping them for cost if any forum members wanted one. I even have the membership so the discount would apply, but i think it's one design per household but two of the three I bought are already sold out.ย ย
The reason they sat is because they're not really "retail"
ย ย The are two problems with the MCA prints. - they will ship to USA only - there are too many of them, all the different colour editions, it feels like you will be able to pick one up anytime you like. That said I'm quite surprised "Hands Clasped" is still available. This forum used to sell out everything That one is sold out.ย I got one before they sold out.ย That's a shame they only ship to the US. I wouldn't mind reshipping them for cost if any forum members wanted one. I even have the membership so the discount would apply, but i think it's one design per household but two of the three I bought are already sold out.ย ย The reason they sat is because they're not really "retail"
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