rebate
Junior Member
๐จ๏ธ 1,050
๐๐ป 961
January 2018
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Brexit
Oct 12, 2018 11:14:09 GMT 1
Brexit, by rebate on Oct 12, 2018 11:14:09 GMT 1, I voted leave, and would now like an equally democratic second vote based on the reality of the situation as it is. If you think that spike was bad then, what do you see happening when the racists think they have won their victory? I dont see anything good coming out of it anymore, i really dont understand why people think a second vote is in anyway undemocratic either. The more the people have a hand in decisions, the stronger that democracy is (assuming its not all been rigged obviously). By definition, removing that opportunity is undemocratic. We change our views and thoughts based on new information all the time, theres been a lot of new information on this that we never had, it seems to only make sense to now reassess it before its too late. The referendum was like being asked if you want to buy a piece of art without knowing the price, the dimensions, or the image. Iโm sure some are happy to buy on that basis, but I suspect that most prefer to have all the information to hand before making a decision. Th argument about democracy and the will of the people is a strong one, but more a reflection on us being asked the wrong question in the first place. Rather than asking us if we want to buy the artwork โblindโ, it may have been better to ask us if we wanted to receive a copy of the PDF before making a final decision.
Dave) Im going to bake a cake, do you want some?
Pete) what kind of cake?
Dave) dont know, do you want some?
Pete) er not sure, what are you going to put in it?
Dave) dont know, do you want some?
Pete) well ok, ill try a bit.
Dave) i made the cake. Heres your piece.
Pete) That smells f**kingawfull, whats in it?
Dave) well, its dogs**t, lots of high strength chilli powders and a few random chemicals from under the sink.
Pete) yeah i think im going to change my mind.
Dave) you cant, you said you wanted it before.
Pete) yeah right, f**koff Dave.
Pete) Oh, you already did.
I voted leave, and would now like an equally democratic second vote based on the reality of the situation as it is. If you think that spike was bad then, what do you see happening when the racists think they have won their victory? I dont see anything good coming out of it anymore, i really dont understand why people think a second vote is in anyway undemocratic either. The more the people have a hand in decisions, the stronger that democracy is (assuming its not all been rigged obviously). By definition, removing that opportunity is undemocratic. We change our views and thoughts based on new information all the time, theres been a lot of new information on this that we never had, it seems to only make sense to now reassess it before its too late. The referendum was like being asked if you want to buy a piece of art without knowing the price, the dimensions, or the image. Iโm sure some are happy to buy on that basis, but I suspect that most prefer to have all the information to hand before making a decision. Th argument about democracy and the will of the people is a strong one, but more a reflection on us being asked the wrong question in the first place. Rather than asking us if we want to buy the artwork โblindโ, it may have been better to ask us if we wanted to receive a copy of the PDF before making a final decision. Nicely put. another option. Dave) Im going to bake a cake, do you want some? Pete) what kind of cake? Dave) dont know, do you want some? Pete) er not sure, what are you going to put in it? Dave) dont know, do you want some? Pete) well ok, ill try a bit. Dave) i made the cake. Heres your piece. Pete) That smells f**kingawfull, whats in it? Dave) well, its dogs**t, lots of high strength chilli powders and a few random chemicals from under the sink. Pete) yeah i think im going to change my mind. Dave) you cant, you said you wanted it before. Pete) yeah right, f**koff Dave. Pete) Oh, you already did. |
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Deleted
๐จ๏ธ 0
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January 1970
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Brexit
Oct 12, 2018 11:15:43 GMT 1
Brexit, by Deleted on Oct 12, 2018 11:15:43 GMT 1, Sadly, it is thought that at least 49% of people would still vote for Brexit if a second vote happened today. It seems to have got to the position that many people want to leave the EU regardless of if it is a good or bad outcome for the UK. They think we are being bossed around by the EU and they don't like it. (That's not my view, by the way.) Where does that 49% come from? I find that very unlikely, but would be interested to see the source.
yougov.co.uk/news/2018/06/23/eu-referendum-two-years/
Sadly, it is thought that at least 49% of people would still vote for Brexit if a second vote happened today. It seems to have got to the position that many people want to leave the EU regardless of if it is a good or bad outcome for the UK. They think we are being bossed around by the EU and they don't like it. (That's not my view, by the way.) Where does that 49% come from? I find that very unlikely, but would be interested to see the source. YouGov is highly regarded in polling and surveys. They show Remain as lightly ahead but still virtually neck and neck with Leave votes. Not much change in 2 years then. It's till roughly 50/50. yougov.co.uk/news/2018/06/23/eu-referendum-two-years/ |
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rebate
Junior Member
๐จ๏ธ 1,050
๐๐ป 961
January 2018
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Brexit
Oct 12, 2018 11:23:08 GMT 1
Brexit, by rebate on Oct 12, 2018 11:23:08 GMT 1, Where does that 49% come from? I find that very unlikely, but would be interested to see the source. YouGov is highly regarded in polling and surveys. They show Remain as lightly ahead but still virtually neck and neck with Leave votes. Not much change in 2 years then. It's till roughly 50/50. yougov.co.uk/news/2018/06/23/eu-referendum-two-years/
Where does that 49% come from? I find that very unlikely, but would be interested to see the source. YouGov is highly regarded in polling and surveys. They show Remain as lightly ahead but still virtually neck and neck with Leave votes. Not much change in 2 years then. It's till roughly 50/50. yougov.co.uk/news/2018/06/23/eu-referendum-two-years/Im not sure if i missed something, but there is nothing there that says they predict a 49% vote for brexit in a second ref. |
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Pysgod
Junior Member
๐จ๏ธ 1,677
๐๐ป 1,347
December 2016
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Brexit
Oct 12, 2018 11:29:48 GMT 1
Brexit, by Pysgod on Oct 12, 2018 11:29:48 GMT 1, What seconded referendum ? There will not be one.
What seconded referendum ? There will not be one.
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rebate
Junior Member
๐จ๏ธ 1,050
๐๐ป 961
January 2018
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Brexit
Oct 12, 2018 11:32:16 GMT 1
Brexit, by rebate on Oct 12, 2018 11:32:16 GMT 1, What seconded referendum ? There will not be one.
What seconded referendum ? There will not be one. Idiot thinks he knows it all, smart man knows he doesnt. |
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Matt
Junior Member
๐จ๏ธ 2,357
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September 2014
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Brexit
Oct 12, 2018 11:47:05 GMT 1
via mobile
Brexit, by Matt on Oct 12, 2018 11:47:05 GMT 1, Im not sure if i missed something, but there is nothing there that says they predict a 49% vote for brexit in a second ref.ย
rebate I find your honesty very refreshing and it offers an interesting perspective on the vote rather than the partisan and agressive bile that usually surrounds such discussion.
I am French. I could live pretty much where I want in the world, and I have chosen London as home. I didnโt get to vote on this topic, but of course I would have voted to remain.
I watched like many others, from the sidelines, in disbelief at everything that was being said on the matter, and my admiration for this country took a serious hit when the results came in.
However, despite this, I donโt think calling for a second vote is a good thing.
The mistakes where made (voting on the topic, not asking for a 2/3rds majority on such a life changing topic, allowing lies to pervade in the campaign etc...), but this remains a democratic vote and such I donโt think it should be overturned.
Yes I wish people had given their vote some thought, because I believe the right to vote comes wiith an obligation to inform yourself.
But the right to vote also comes with an obligation to respect the vote, else that right is simply an illusion.
Im not sure if i missed something, but there is nothing there that says they predict a 49% vote for brexit in a second ref.ย I find your honesty very refreshing and it offers an interesting perspective on the vote rather than the partisan and agressive bile that usually surrounds such discussion. I am French. I could live pretty much where I want in the world, and I have chosen London as home. I didnโt get to vote on this topic, but of course I would have voted to remain. I watched like many others, from the sidelines, in disbelief at everything that was being said on the matter, and my admiration for this country took a serious hit when the results came in. However, despite this, I donโt think calling for a second vote is a good thing. The mistakes where made (voting on the topic, not asking for a 2/3rds majority on such a life changing topic, allowing lies to pervade in the campaign etc...), but this remains a democratic vote and such I donโt think it should be overturned. Yes I wish people had given their vote some thought, because I believe the right to vote comes wiith an obligation to inform yourself. But the right to vote also comes with an obligation to respect the vote, else that right is simply an illusion. |
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Deleted
๐จ๏ธ 0
๐๐ป
January 1970
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Brexit
Oct 12, 2018 11:48:36 GMT 1
Brexit, by Deleted on Oct 12, 2018 11:48:36 GMT 1, Im not sure if i missed something, but there is nothing there that says they predict a 49% vote for brexit in a second ref.
Im not sure if i missed something, but there is nothing there that says they predict a 49% vote for brexit in a second ref. I agree they don't say 49% but this graph suggests that nearly half the voters still think Brexit is the right decision. |
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rebate
Junior Member
๐จ๏ธ 1,050
๐๐ป 961
January 2018
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Brexit
Oct 12, 2018 12:12:57 GMT 1
Brexit, by rebate on Oct 12, 2018 12:12:57 GMT 1, Im not sure if i missed something, but there is nothing there that says they predict a 49% vote for brexit in a second ref. I find your honesty very refreshing and it offers an interesting perspective on the vote rather than the partisan and agressive bile that usually surrounds such discussion. I am French. I could live pretty much where I want in the world, and I have chosen London as home. I didnโt get to vote on this topic, but of course I would have voted to remain. I watched like many others, from the sidelines, in disbelief at everything that was being said on the matter, and my admiration for this country took a serious hit when the results came in. However, despite this, I donโt think calling for a second vote is a good thing. The mistakes where made (voting on the topic, not asking for a 2/3rds majority on such a life changing topic, allowing lies to pervade in the campaign etc...), but this remains a democratic vote and such I donโt think it should be overturned. Yes I wish people had given their vote some thought, because I believe the right to vote comes wiith an obligation to inform yourself. But the right to vote also comes with an obligation to respect the vote, else that right is simply an illusion.
People did inform themselves, its not possible to take everything in, it wasnt even viable in this instance. My vote would have been changed if i had realised the government were going to act like idiots and alienate Brussels from the off. So that wasnt even part of my thinking. Now we know thats what they have done, among a miriad of other cataclysmic idiocies. There is literally no reason whatsoever that to be democratic, we need to accept that result based on what we now know about the outcome, a second vote would be every bit democratic.
i really need someone to explain how going back to the people can be undemocratic. I find it utterly unfathomable. There seems to have been some kind of redefinition of the meaning of democratic. Democracy literally means rule by the people, its conceptually impossible to be less democratic by going back to the people.
Im not sure if i missed something, but there is nothing there that says they predict a 49% vote for brexit in a second ref. I find your honesty very refreshing and it offers an interesting perspective on the vote rather than the partisan and agressive bile that usually surrounds such discussion. I am French. I could live pretty much where I want in the world, and I have chosen London as home. I didnโt get to vote on this topic, but of course I would have voted to remain. I watched like many others, from the sidelines, in disbelief at everything that was being said on the matter, and my admiration for this country took a serious hit when the results came in. However, despite this, I donโt think calling for a second vote is a good thing. The mistakes where made (voting on the topic, not asking for a 2/3rds majority on such a life changing topic, allowing lies to pervade in the campaign etc...), but this remains a democratic vote and such I donโt think it should be overturned. Yes I wish people had given their vote some thought, because I believe the right to vote comes wiith an obligation to inform yourself. But the right to vote also comes with an obligation to respect the vote, else that right is simply an illusion. I can never understand how a second vote would in some way be undemocratic. The position it has put us in is so much clearer now, it seems way more democratic to me. Not to mention i cant see how you undermine democracy by asking the people again. no one is going to be made to stay at home or anything, so it would only be a more recent version of what the people actually want. People did inform themselves, its not possible to take everything in, it wasnt even viable in this instance. My vote would have been changed if i had realised the government were going to act like idiots and alienate Brussels from the off. So that wasnt even part of my thinking. Now we know thats what they have done, among a miriad of other cataclysmic idiocies. There is literally no reason whatsoever that to be democratic, we need to accept that result based on what we now know about the outcome, a second vote would be every bit democratic. i really need someone to explain how going back to the people can be undemocratic. I find it utterly unfathomable. There seems to have been some kind of redefinition of the meaning of democratic. Democracy literally means rule by the people, its conceptually impossible to be less democratic by going back to the people. |
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rebate
Junior Member
๐จ๏ธ 1,050
๐๐ป 961
January 2018
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Brexit
Oct 12, 2018 12:14:13 GMT 1
Brexit, by rebate on Oct 12, 2018 12:14:13 GMT 1, Im not sure if i missed something, but there is nothing there that says they predict a 49% vote for brexit in a second ref. I agree they don't say 49% but this graph suggests that nearly half the voters still think Brexit is the right decision.
Im not sure if i missed something, but there is nothing there that says they predict a 49% vote for brexit in a second ref. I agree they don't say 49% but this graph suggests that nearly half the voters still think Brexit is the right decision. Maybe, but it certainly doesnt make any assertion about how they would vote in a second ref. |
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Pysgod
Junior Member
๐จ๏ธ 1,677
๐๐ป 1,347
December 2016
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Brexit
Oct 12, 2018 12:20:31 GMT 1
Brexit, by Pysgod on Oct 12, 2018 12:20:31 GMT 1, What 2nd referendum ?
What 2nd referendum ?
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Deleted
๐จ๏ธ 0
๐๐ป
January 1970
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Brexit
Oct 12, 2018 12:20:39 GMT 1
Brexit, by Deleted on Oct 12, 2018 12:20:39 GMT 1, I agree they don't say 49% but this graph suggests that nearly half the voters still think Brexit is the right decision. Maybe, but it certainly doesnt make any assertion about how they would vote in a second ref.
I agree they don't say 49% but this graph suggests that nearly half the voters still think Brexit is the right decision. Maybe, but it certainly doesnt make any assertion about how they would vote in a second ref. If nearly half the voters still think Brexit is the right decision, then they are hardly going to vote Remain, are they? |
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Matt
Junior Member
๐จ๏ธ 2,357
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September 2014
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Brexit
Oct 12, 2018 12:21:03 GMT 1
via mobile
Brexit, by Matt on Oct 12, 2018 12:21:03 GMT 1, rebate itโs not about voting being undemocratic.
Letโs assume there is a second referendum on the same topic. This time remain wins. Whatโs to say a year from now given new events the leave camp donโt demand another vote as surely they would win again..:and so on and so on.
Thatโs not to say voting on the deal or some aspects of it would not be a good idea.
But voting again in the exact same terms seems to me not a reason able idea
rebate itโs not about voting being undemocratic. Letโs assume there is a second referendum on the same topic. This time remain wins. Whatโs to say a year from now given new events the leave camp donโt demand another vote as surely they would win again..:and so on and so on. Thatโs not to say voting on the deal or some aspects of it would not be a good idea. But voting again in the exact same terms seems to me not a reason able idea
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rebate
Junior Member
๐จ๏ธ 1,050
๐๐ป 961
January 2018
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Brexit
Oct 12, 2018 12:27:13 GMT 1
Brexit, by rebate on Oct 12, 2018 12:27:13 GMT 1, Maybe, but it certainly doesnt make any assertion about how they would vote in a second ref. If nearly half the voters still think Brexit is the right decision, then they are hardly going to vote Remain, are they?
Its basically miss-use of statistical data, and there is no getting away from that basic point.
Maybe, but it certainly doesnt make any assertion about how they would vote in a second ref. If nearly half the voters still think Brexit is the right decision, then they are hardly going to vote Remain, are they? Who knows, but for one thing, that wasnt the question, and secondly, they werent being given the opportunity to hold another referendum, so it didnt influence their decision. Its basically miss-use of statistical data, and there is no getting away from that basic point. |
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rebate
Junior Member
๐จ๏ธ 1,050
๐๐ป 961
January 2018
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Brexit
Oct 12, 2018 12:34:03 GMT 1
Brexit, by rebate on Oct 12, 2018 12:34:03 GMT 1, rebate itโs not about voting being undemocratic. Letโs assume there is a second referendum on the same topic. This time remain wins. Whatโs to say a year from now given new events the leave camp donโt demand another vote as surely they would win again..:and so on and so on. Thatโs not to say voting on the deal or some aspects of it would not be a good idea. But voting again in the exact same terms seems to me not a reason able idea
But thats the thing with democracy, they will have the right to do that. I wouldnt try to take it from them. Thats even quite likely with a tight and inconclusive result. To say thats us done now, lets leave it to the politicians, makes a bit of a mockery of the definition of democracy.
rebate itโs not about voting being undemocratic. Letโs assume there is a second referendum on the same topic. This time remain wins. Whatโs to say a year from now given new events the leave camp donโt demand another vote as surely they would win again..:and so on and so on. Thatโs not to say voting on the deal or some aspects of it would not be a good idea. But voting again in the exact same terms seems to me not a reason able idea Ah i see. No, i agree with you, a simple leave dont leave may not be the best question. But thats the thing with democracy, they will have the right to do that. I wouldnt try to take it from them. Thats even quite likely with a tight and inconclusive result. To say thats us done now, lets leave it to the politicians, makes a bit of a mockery of the definition of democracy. |
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Deleted
๐จ๏ธ 0
๐๐ป
January 1970
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Brexit
Oct 12, 2018 12:40:02 GMT 1
Brexit, by Deleted on Oct 12, 2018 12:40:02 GMT 1, But our democracy always revolves around the "let's leave it to the politicians". That's how our democracy works. We don't vote on individual policies. We vote for a politician that best represents our views, and then that politician votes as he/she feels fit.
But our democracy always revolves around the "let's leave it to the politicians". That's how our democracy works. We don't vote on individual policies. We vote for a politician that best represents our views, and then that politician votes as he/she feels fit.
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rebate
Junior Member
๐จ๏ธ 1,050
๐๐ป 961
January 2018
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Brexit
Oct 12, 2018 12:49:48 GMT 1
Brexit, by rebate on Oct 12, 2018 12:49:48 GMT 1, But our democracy always revolves around the "let's leave it to the politicians". That's how our democracy works. We don't vote on individual policies. We vote for a politician that best represents our views, and then that politician votes as he/she feels fit.
You seriously are missing so much of whats going on here, you should just bail.
But our democracy always revolves around the "let's leave it to the politicians". That's how our democracy works. We don't vote on individual policies. We vote for a politician that best represents our views, and then that politician votes as he/she feels fit. No, thats how our political system works. As i mentioned previously, democracy literally means rule by the people. You seriously are missing so much of whats going on here, you should just bail. |
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Deleted
๐จ๏ธ 0
๐๐ป
January 1970
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Brexit
Oct 12, 2018 12:53:20 GMT 1
Brexit, by Deleted on Oct 12, 2018 12:53:20 GMT 1, But our democracy always revolves around the "let's leave it to the politicians". That's how our democracy works. We don't vote on individual policies. We vote for a politician that best represents our views, and then that politician votes as he/she feels fit. No, thats how our political system works. As i mentioned previously, democracy literally means rule by the people. You seriously are missing so much of whats going on here, you should just bail.
But our democracy always revolves around the "let's leave it to the politicians". That's how our democracy works. We don't vote on individual policies. We vote for a politician that best represents our views, and then that politician votes as he/she feels fit. No, thats how our political system works. As i mentioned previously, democracy literally means rule by the people. You seriously are missing so much of whats going on here, you should just bail. You seem to be confused as to what kind of democracy we have in this country (there is more than one type, you know). We do not have a direct democracy where we, the people, vote on every single issue. You appear to be seriously misinformed about how our democracy works. |
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rebate
Junior Member
๐จ๏ธ 1,050
๐๐ป 961
January 2018
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Brexit
Oct 12, 2018 12:59:57 GMT 1
Brexit, by rebate on Oct 12, 2018 12:59:57 GMT 1, No, thats how our political system works. As i mentioned previously, democracy literally means rule by the people. You seriously are missing so much of whats going on here, you should just bail. You seem to be confused as to what kind of democracy we have in this country (there is more than one type, you know). We do not have a direct democracy where we, the people, vote on every single issue. You appear to be seriously misinformed about how our democracy works.
No, thats how our political system works. As i mentioned previously, democracy literally means rule by the people. You seriously are missing so much of whats going on here, you should just bail. You seem to be confused as to what kind of democracy we have in this country (there is more than one type, you know). We do not have a direct democracy where we, the people, vote on every single issue. You appear to be seriously misinformed about how our democracy works. nope, your still missing the point. |
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Brexit
Oct 12, 2018 13:02:45 GMT 1
via mobile
Brexit, by Daylight Robber on Oct 12, 2018 13:02:45 GMT 1,
Agreed. It'll be a third.
Agreed. It'll be a third. |
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Deleted
๐จ๏ธ 0
๐๐ป
January 1970
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Brexit
Oct 12, 2018 13:06:26 GMT 1
Brexit, by Deleted on Oct 12, 2018 13:06:26 GMT 1, This whole EU debate has made me deeply suspicious of referendum votes. Why should important and life-changing decisions be left to people who know little about the subject in hand (whether the subject is Brexit or anything else)? I would much prefer a few experts to get round the table and discuss the issues involved and come to a rational and educated decision on our behalf. I'm not sure why this "let the people decide" thing is so popular. I'm more tempted to say "don't let the people decide; let the experts decide". Oh yes the experts that's just what we need. Lets get some highly educated, say Eton and Oxbridge types, and let them decide what's best for us.
Apart from the campaigning running for what seemed like a lifetime, the Scottish Independence Referendum worked ok. In that instance we knew what we were being asked to vote on, unlike the Brexit Referendum.
This whole EU debate has made me deeply suspicious of referendum votes. Why should important and life-changing decisions be left to people who know little about the subject in hand (whether the subject is Brexit or anything else)? I would much prefer a few experts to get round the table and discuss the issues involved and come to a rational and educated decision on our behalf. I'm not sure why this "let the people decide" thing is so popular. I'm more tempted to say "don't let the people decide; let the experts decide". Oh yes the experts that's just what we need. Lets get some highly educated, say Eton and Oxbridge types, and let them decide what's best for us.
Apart from the campaigning running for what seemed like a lifetime, the Scottish Independence Referendum worked ok. In that instance we knew what we were being asked to vote on, unlike the Brexit Referendum.
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Deleted
๐จ๏ธ 0
๐๐ป
January 1970
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Brexit
Oct 12, 2018 13:10:07 GMT 1
Brexit, by Deleted on Oct 12, 2018 13:10:07 GMT 1, This whole EU debate has made me deeply suspicious of referendum votes. Why should important and life-changing decisions be left to people who know little about the subject in hand (whether the subject is Brexit or anything else)? I would much prefer a few experts to get round the table and discuss the issues involved and come to a rational and educated decision on our behalf. I'm not sure why this "let the people decide" thing is so popular. I'm more tempted to say "don't let the people decide; let the experts decide". Oh yes the experts that's just what we need. Lets get some highly educated, say Eton and Oxbridge types, and let them decide what's best for us.
Apart from the campaigning running for what seemed like a lifetime, the Scottish Independence Referendum worked ok. In that instance we knew what we were being asked to vote on, unlike the Brexit Referendum.
Who should we trust for our information? Experts in their given field? Or the twittering tweeters on twitter?
This whole EU debate has made me deeply suspicious of referendum votes. Why should important and life-changing decisions be left to people who know little about the subject in hand (whether the subject is Brexit or anything else)? I would much prefer a few experts to get round the table and discuss the issues involved and come to a rational and educated decision on our behalf. I'm not sure why this "let the people decide" thing is so popular. I'm more tempted to say "don't let the people decide; let the experts decide". Oh yes the experts that's just what we need. Lets get some highly educated, say Eton and Oxbridge types, and let them decide what's best for us.
Apart from the campaigning running for what seemed like a lifetime, the Scottish Independence Referendum worked ok. In that instance we knew what we were being asked to vote on, unlike the Brexit Referendum.
Yes, we really do need experts. Who should we trust for our information? Experts in their given field? Or the twittering tweeters on twitter? |
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Deleted
๐จ๏ธ 0
๐๐ป
January 1970
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Brexit
Oct 12, 2018 13:12:33 GMT 1
Brexit, by Deleted on Oct 12, 2018 13:12:33 GMT 1, Oh yes the experts that's just what we need. Lets get some highly educated, say Eton and Oxbridge types, and let them decide what's best for us.
Apart from the campaigning running for what seemed like a lifetime, the Scottish Independence Referendum worked ok. In that instance we knew what we were being asked to vote on, unlike the Brexit Referendum.
Yes, we really do need experts. Who should we trust for our information? Experts in their given field? Or the twittering tweeters on twitter?
Oh yes the experts that's just what we need. Lets get some highly educated, say Eton and Oxbridge types, and let them decide what's best for us.
Apart from the campaigning running for what seemed like a lifetime, the Scottish Independence Referendum worked ok. In that instance we knew what we were being asked to vote on, unlike the Brexit Referendum.
Yes, we really do need experts. Who should we trust for our information? Experts in their given field? Or the twittering tweeters on twitter? Who are the experts in this given field ? Who made them the experts ? |
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quinn
Junior Member
๐จ๏ธ 1,318
๐๐ป 1,600
December 2017
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Brexit
Oct 12, 2018 13:28:40 GMT 1
via mobile
Brexit, by quinn on Oct 12, 2018 13:28:40 GMT 1, I was enjoying this thread until the graph showed up. Jesus!
I was enjoying this thread until the graph showed up. Jesus!
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Deleted
๐จ๏ธ 0
๐๐ป
January 1970
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Brexit
Oct 12, 2018 18:25:01 GMT 1
Brexit, by Deleted on Oct 12, 2018 18:25:01 GMT 1, Just get on with it!
Just get on with it!
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moron
Junior Member
๐จ๏ธ 2,711
๐๐ป 1,051
September 2017
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Brexit
Oct 12, 2018 18:30:15 GMT 1
Brexit, by moron on Oct 12, 2018 18:30:15 GMT 1, I think there will be a new leader of the Tory party or an election before any Brexit leave deal is finalised.
The government has to sort out a suitable agreement between Northern Ireland and Southern Ireland regarding a hard border there.
www.bbc.com/news/uk-northern-ireland-45824554
I think there will be a new leader of the Tory party or an election before any Brexit leave deal is finalised. The government has to sort out a suitable agreement between Northern Ireland and Southern Ireland regarding a hard border there. www.bbc.com/news/uk-northern-ireland-45824554 |
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moron
Junior Member
๐จ๏ธ 2,711
๐๐ป 1,051
September 2017
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Brexit
Oct 12, 2018 18:37:37 GMT 1
Brexit, by moron on Oct 12, 2018 18:37:37 GMT 1, The wording on the big red bus was clearly a lie and misled Brexit voters. Farage played with words and is a con man.
The left tends to accuse pro Brexit voters of being right wing.
Corbyn also was very vague and wishy washy during the campaign and many suggested that Corbyn was actually pro leaving the EU.
Voters in Labour regions swung the result to leave the EU. Bloc votes and communities told which way to vote by community leaders too.
"We are proud of the spirited and passionate case Muslims for Britain supporters and activists made from across the country. We thank them for the hundreds of hours of campaigning they did over the last few months. We worked together taking our optimistic and hopeful message: from house to house, neighbourhood to neighbourhood and city to city. We particularly welcome the results in the following areas where we had strong representation: Bradford, Dewsbury, Sheffield, Bury, Pendle, Birmingham, Coventry, Walsall, Worcester, Nottingham, Derby, High Wycombe, and Woking."
muslimsforbritainorg.wordpress.com/
The wording on the big red bus was clearly a lie and misled Brexit voters. Farage played with words and is a con man. The left tends to accuse pro Brexit voters of being right wing. Corbyn also was very vague and wishy washy during the campaign and many suggested that Corbyn was actually pro leaving the EU. Voters in Labour regions swung the result to leave the EU. Bloc votes and communities told which way to vote by community leaders too. "We are proud of the spirited and passionate case Muslims for Britain supporters and activists made from across the country. We thank them for the hundreds of hours of campaigning they did over the last few months. We worked together taking our optimistic and hopeful message: from house to house, neighbourhood to neighbourhood and city to city. We particularly welcome the results in the following areas where we had strong representation: Bradford, Dewsbury, Sheffield, Bury, Pendle, Birmingham, Coventry, Walsall, Worcester, Nottingham, Derby, High Wycombe, and Woking."
muslimsforbritainorg.wordpress.com/
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Brexit
Oct 12, 2018 19:07:03 GMT 1
via mobile
Brexit, by Daylight Robber on Oct 12, 2018 19:07:03 GMT 1, I think there will be a new leader of the Tory party or an election before any Brexit leave deal is finalised. The government has to sort out a suitable agreement between Northern Ireland and Southern Ireland regarding a hard border there. www.bbc.com/news/uk-northern-ireland-45824554
The only solution to the Ireland conundrum is to stay in the CU and the SM. There can be no hard border.
I think there will be a new leader of the Tory party or an election before any Brexit leave deal is finalised. The government has to sort out a suitable agreement between Northern Ireland and Southern Ireland regarding a hard border there. www.bbc.com/news/uk-northern-ireland-45824554The only solution to the Ireland conundrum is to stay in the CU and the SM. There can be no hard border. |
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Prescription Art
Art Gallery
Junior Member
๐จ๏ธ 3,146
๐๐ป 1,215
November 2007
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Brexit
Oct 12, 2018 19:11:09 GMT 1
Brexit, by Prescription Art on Oct 12, 2018 19:11:09 GMT 1, Corbyn also was very vague and wishy washy during the campaign and many suggested that Corbyn was actually pro leaving the EU.
Corbyn does want to leave the EU. That's why he didn't do a single thing to campaign to stay in. Which was the difference between staying and leaving IMO.
Corbyn also was very vague and wishy washy during the campaign and many suggested that Corbyn was actually pro leaving the EU. Corbyn does want to leave the EU. That's why he didn't do a single thing to campaign to stay in. Which was the difference between staying and leaving IMO. |
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Brexit
Oct 12, 2018 19:44:56 GMT 1
via mobile
Brexit, by Daylight Robber on Oct 12, 2018 19:44:56 GMT 1, ย Corbyn also was very vague and wishy washy during the campaign and many suggested that Corbyn was actually pro leaving the EU. ย Corbyn does want to leave the EU. That's why he didn't do a single thing to campaign to stay in. Which was the difference between staying and leaving IMO.
This is a ridiculous argument. I'm no Corbyn fan but 75% of Labour voters voted to remain. Cameron, the leader of the Tory party, campaigned to remain and failed to bring his party members with him. Brexit belongs to the Tories.
ย Corbyn also was very vague and wishy washy during the campaign and many suggested that Corbyn was actually pro leaving the EU. ย Corbyn does want to leave the EU. That's why he didn't do a single thing to campaign to stay in. Which was the difference between staying and leaving IMO. This is a ridiculous argument. I'm no Corbyn fan but 75% of Labour voters voted to remain. Cameron, the leader of the Tory party, campaigned to remain and failed to bring his party members with him. Brexit belongs to the Tories. |
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Leo Boyd
Artist
Junior Member
๐จ๏ธ 1,474
๐๐ป 2,084
June 2016
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Brexit
Oct 12, 2018 20:56:38 GMT 1
Brexit, by Leo Boyd on Oct 12, 2018 20:56:38 GMT 1, Fuck brexit
Sorry. I live in northern Ireland and we are pretty fucked when it comes down to it.
I mean it has been pretty screwed for a long time but this is impacting problems that had started to die down a little bit.
The solution they will come up with here is to turn Belfast into some kind of Hong Kong of Europe. The poor will get shafted (again) and the money will flow upwards.
This little enclave is really corrupt and there is an entrenched political class who will happily play the tiny sad violin (for money) whilst the populace gets a shiny new bus and gets to wave a flag 2wice a year.
Sorry for all the swearing but brexit really pisses me off.
There are so many actual problems in the world that can only be solved by collective action involving governments and corporations and individuals.
Instead we have this total slap-stick fuck up that is just going to go on and on and on.
Fuck brexit
Sorry. I live in northern Ireland and we are pretty fucked when it comes down to it.
I mean it has been pretty screwed for a long time but this is impacting problems that had started to die down a little bit.
The solution they will come up with here is to turn Belfast into some kind of Hong Kong of Europe. The poor will get shafted (again) and the money will flow upwards.
This little enclave is really corrupt and there is an entrenched political class who will happily play the tiny sad violin (for money) whilst the populace gets a shiny new bus and gets to wave a flag 2wice a year.
Sorry for all the swearing but brexit really pisses me off.
There are so many actual problems in the world that can only be solved by collective action involving governments and corporations and individuals.
Instead we have this total slap-stick fuck up that is just going to go on and on and on.
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