25127096
New Member
🗨️ 570
👍🏻 402
December 2013
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Brexit
Aug 13, 2019 12:11:25 GMT 1
via mobile
Brexit, by 25127096 on Aug 13, 2019 12:11:25 GMT 1, John Bolton, following his first meeting with Prime Minister Boris Johnson in London, took aim at the EU for prolonging the Brexit process and not respecting the result of the 2016 referendum. Mr Bolton called the EU’s bluff and insisted its refusal to re-negotiate the failed withdrawal agreement was a ploy to “make the peasants vote again and again”. Mr Bolton said: “The fashion in the European Union is when the people vote the wrong way from the way the elites want to go, is to make the peasants vote again and again until they get it right.
What are your thoughts on John Bolton’s words?
Alot of people on here keep going on about how undemocratic brexit is and moaning it’s not fair, Is it not undemocratic that the vote to leave is not being respected.
Why is the talk 90 percent of the time, only focused on the cost of brexit? Is that all people are interested in, the cost to your wallet/purse?
What are your thoughts on fishing rights and the french insisting they have access to uk fishery’s or else? The threats from the eu and individual states is ridiculous because if the boot was on the other foot it just wouldn’t be accepted. ie if the eu would have voted for the uk to be booted out of the union then the uk demanded access to the free market or else, would you be in support?
My opinion is the whole lot stinks, it doesn’t matter if you in or out, if you have a vote it should be accepted and championed by all instead of hindered until the loud mouths get there way. Is that not democratic?
John Bolton, following his first meeting with Prime Minister Boris Johnson in London, took aim at the EU for prolonging the Brexit process and not respecting the result of the 2016 referendum. Mr Bolton called the EU’s bluff and insisted its refusal to re-negotiate the failed withdrawal agreement was a ploy to “make the peasants vote again and again”. Mr Bolton said: “The fashion in the European Union is when the people vote the wrong way from the way the elites want to go, is to make the peasants vote again and again until they get it right.
What are your thoughts on John Bolton’s words?
Alot of people on here keep going on about how undemocratic brexit is and moaning it’s not fair, Is it not undemocratic that the vote to leave is not being respected.
Why is the talk 90 percent of the time, only focused on the cost of brexit? Is that all people are interested in, the cost to your wallet/purse?
What are your thoughts on fishing rights and the french insisting they have access to uk fishery’s or else? The threats from the eu and individual states is ridiculous because if the boot was on the other foot it just wouldn’t be accepted. ie if the eu would have voted for the uk to be booted out of the union then the uk demanded access to the free market or else, would you be in support?
My opinion is the whole lot stinks, it doesn’t matter if you in or out, if you have a vote it should be accepted and championed by all instead of hindered until the loud mouths get there way. Is that not democratic?
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tab1
Full Member
🗨️ 8,519
👍🏻 3,679
September 2011
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Brexit
Aug 13, 2019 12:53:10 GMT 1
via mobile
Brexit, by tab1 on Aug 13, 2019 12:53:10 GMT 1, John Bolton, following his first meeting with Prime Minister Boris Johnson in London, took aim at the EU for prolonging the Brexit process and not respecting the result of the 2016 referendum. Mr Bolton called the EU’s bluff and insisted its refusal to re-negotiate the failed withdrawal agreement was a ploy to “make the peasants vote again and again”. Mr Bolton said: “The fashion in the European Union is when the people vote the wrong way from the way the elites want to go, is to make the peasants vote again and again until they get it right. What are your thoughts on John Bolton’s words? Alot of people on here keep going on about how undemocratic brexit is and moaning it’s not fair, Is it not undemocratic that the vote to leave is not being respected. Why is the talk 90 percent of the time, only focused on the cost of brexit? Is that all people are interested in, the cost to your wallet/purse? What are your thoughts on fishing rights and the french insisting they have access to uk fishery’s or else? The threats from the eu and individual states is ridiculous because if the boot was on the other foot it just wouldn’t be accepted. ie if the eu would have voted for the uk to be booted out of the union then the uk demanded access to the free market or else, would you be in support? My opinion is the whole lot stinks, it doesn’t matter if you in or out, if you have a vote it should be accepted and championed by all instead of hindered until the loud mouths get there way. Is that not democratic?
The vast majority voted in the costs to their wallets as used initially by brexiteers focusing on mainly the costs to uk citizens , manifesto of what the country would negotiate was not even made present then yet people still vited to leave not fully knowing the facts . As more debates and facts are presented some people are changing their views.
Alot of people thought by leaving brexit the economy will automactically recover and everyones lives would be richer .how many thought about home industries , farming , fisheries etc ? Immigration was another of the main factor for most voting but many are unwilling yo admit kitside of their own circles
John Bolton, following his first meeting with Prime Minister Boris Johnson in London, took aim at the EU for prolonging the Brexit process and not respecting the result of the 2016 referendum. Mr Bolton called the EU’s bluff and insisted its refusal to re-negotiate the failed withdrawal agreement was a ploy to “make the peasants vote again and again”. Mr Bolton said: “The fashion in the European Union is when the people vote the wrong way from the way the elites want to go, is to make the peasants vote again and again until they get it right. What are your thoughts on John Bolton’s words? Alot of people on here keep going on about how undemocratic brexit is and moaning it’s not fair, Is it not undemocratic that the vote to leave is not being respected. Why is the talk 90 percent of the time, only focused on the cost of brexit? Is that all people are interested in, the cost to your wallet/purse? What are your thoughts on fishing rights and the french insisting they have access to uk fishery’s or else? The threats from the eu and individual states is ridiculous because if the boot was on the other foot it just wouldn’t be accepted. ie if the eu would have voted for the uk to be booted out of the union then the uk demanded access to the free market or else, would you be in support? My opinion is the whole lot stinks, it doesn’t matter if you in or out, if you have a vote it should be accepted and championed by all instead of hindered until the loud mouths get there way. Is that not democratic? The vast majority voted in the costs to their wallets as used initially by brexiteers focusing on mainly the costs to uk citizens , manifesto of what the country would negotiate was not even made present then yet people still vited to leave not fully knowing the facts . As more debates and facts are presented some people are changing their views. Alot of people thought by leaving brexit the economy will automactically recover and everyones lives would be richer .how many thought about home industries , farming , fisheries etc ? Immigration was another of the main factor for most voting but many are unwilling yo admit kitside of their own circles |
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k2
New Member
🗨️ 528
👍🏻 972
November 2016
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Brexit
Aug 13, 2019 13:04:47 GMT 1
Brexit, by k2 on Aug 13, 2019 13:04:47 GMT 1, Alot of people on here keep going on about how undemocratic brexit is and moaning it’s not fair, Is it not undemocratic that the vote to leave is not being respected.
However, I do think it's more nuanced than that. With hindsight, I think it can be agreed that the wording/specifics of the original vote was flawed. Essentially we were offered the choice of remaining in the EU, or the hypothetical option of leaving the EU, without any knowledge of what leaving the EU might look like. Campaigners in favour of leaving suggested/promised that leaving would be easy and risk-free, with prosperity for all. Campaigners in favour of remaining suggested/promised that leaving would be a disaster for all. But really, no-one knew what leaving might look like, or what our future relationship with the EU might look like. Promises and exaggerations were offered from both sides.
Now that we're 3 years on, and generally have a better idea of how leaving the EU might work, and what options are available, personally I don't think it would be undemocratic to have an a new vote based on realities rather than hypotheticals.
I voted to remain, and would vote to remain again given the choice. But if a referendum were offered again based on the factual options that we now have, and if the country voted to leave under the terms of the withdrawal agreement, or even without a deal, then it would be difficult to find argument with that, and it would have to be respected.
For what it's worth, my choice to remain was not financially motivated. The most important thing to me is/was the freedom of movement. I have been lucky to have born with the option to live/love/work throughout the EU - something that I've always taken for granted. The thought that our next generation(s) will not inherit that freedom is deeply saddening to me.
Alot of people on here keep going on about how undemocratic brexit is and moaning it’s not fair, Is it not undemocratic that the vote to leave is not being respected. I think there is certainly an argument to be made that the result of the original vote should be respected. However, I do think it's more nuanced than that. With hindsight, I think it can be agreed that the wording/specifics of the original vote was flawed. Essentially we were offered the choice of remaining in the EU, or the hypothetical option of leaving the EU, without any knowledge of what leaving the EU might look like. Campaigners in favour of leaving suggested/promised that leaving would be easy and risk-free, with prosperity for all. Campaigners in favour of remaining suggested/promised that leaving would be a disaster for all. But really, no-one knew what leaving might look like, or what our future relationship with the EU might look like. Promises and exaggerations were offered from both sides. Now that we're 3 years on, and generally have a better idea of how leaving the EU might work, and what options are available, personally I don't think it would be undemocratic to have an a new vote based on realities rather than hypotheticals. I voted to remain, and would vote to remain again given the choice. But if a referendum were offered again based on the factual options that we now have, and if the country voted to leave under the terms of the withdrawal agreement, or even without a deal, then it would be difficult to find argument with that, and it would have to be respected. For what it's worth, my choice to remain was not financially motivated. The most important thing to me is/was the freedom of movement. I have been lucky to have born with the option to live/love/work throughout the EU - something that I've always taken for granted. The thought that our next generation(s) will not inherit that freedom is deeply saddening to me. |
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Chris JL
Junior Member
🗨️ 1,766
👍🏻 1,852
March 2017
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Brexit, by Chris JL on Aug 13, 2019 13:25:39 GMT 1, Last time I remember John Bolton declaring himself sure about something was a) Saddam’s weapons of mass destruction (never found) and b) that the US forces would be greeted as liberators in Iraq (we all know how it went instead).
That says it all: BS from a BSer.
The guy got resurrected from the dustbin of history (where he belongs) only thanks to the inability of the Trump administration to attract credible hands on deck - republicans with reputation (I know for a fact) turn down this WH job offers because they don’t want to dirty their CVs.
Last time I remember John Bolton declaring himself sure about something was a) Saddam’s weapons of mass destruction (never found) and b) that the US forces would be greeted as liberators in Iraq (we all know how it went instead).
That says it all: BS from a BSer.
The guy got resurrected from the dustbin of history (where he belongs) only thanks to the inability of the Trump administration to attract credible hands on deck - republicans with reputation (I know for a fact) turn down this WH job offers because they don’t want to dirty their CVs.
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Deleted
🗨️ 0
👍🏻
January 1970
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Brexit
Aug 13, 2019 13:35:51 GMT 1
via mobile
Brexit, by Deleted on Aug 13, 2019 13:35:51 GMT 1, John Bolton, following his first meeting with Prime Minister Boris Johnson in London, took aim at the EU for prolonging the Brexit process and not respecting the result of the 2016 referendum. Mr Bolton called the EU’s bluff and insisted its refusal to re-negotiate the failed withdrawal agreement was a ploy to “make the peasants vote again and again”. Mr Bolton said: “The fashion in the European Union is when the people vote the wrong way from the way the elites want to go, is to make the peasants vote again and again until they get it right. What are your thoughts on John Bolton’s words? Alot of people on here keep going on about how undemocratic brexit is and moaning it’s not fair, Is it not undemocratic that the vote to leave is not being respected. Why is the talk 90 percent of the time, only focused on the cost of brexit? Is that all people are interested in, the cost to your wallet/purse? What are your thoughts on fishing rights and the french insisting they have access to uk fishery’s or else? The threats from the eu and individual states is ridiculous because if the boot was on the other foot it just wouldn’t be accepted. ie if the eu would have voted for the uk to be booted out of the union then the uk demanded access to the free market or else, would you be in support? My opinion is the whole lot stinks, it doesn’t matter if you in or out, if you have a vote it should be accepted and championed by all instead of hindered until the loud mouths get there way. Is that not democratic?
Americans want the NHS
It's a business deal. All about making money. One way traffic.
What did the leave vote mean? With a deal? With no deal? What did leavers vote for?)
John Bolton, following his first meeting with Prime Minister Boris Johnson in London, took aim at the EU for prolonging the Brexit process and not respecting the result of the 2016 referendum. Mr Bolton called the EU’s bluff and insisted its refusal to re-negotiate the failed withdrawal agreement was a ploy to “make the peasants vote again and again”. Mr Bolton said: “The fashion in the European Union is when the people vote the wrong way from the way the elites want to go, is to make the peasants vote again and again until they get it right. What are your thoughts on John Bolton’s words? Alot of people on here keep going on about how undemocratic brexit is and moaning it’s not fair, Is it not undemocratic that the vote to leave is not being respected. Why is the talk 90 percent of the time, only focused on the cost of brexit? Is that all people are interested in, the cost to your wallet/purse? What are your thoughts on fishing rights and the french insisting they have access to uk fishery’s or else? The threats from the eu and individual states is ridiculous because if the boot was on the other foot it just wouldn’t be accepted. ie if the eu would have voted for the uk to be booted out of the union then the uk demanded access to the free market or else, would you be in support? My opinion is the whole lot stinks, it doesn’t matter if you in or out, if you have a vote it should be accepted and championed by all instead of hindered until the loud mouths get there way. Is that not democratic? Americans want the NHS It's a business deal. All about making money. One way traffic. What did the leave vote mean? With a deal? With no deal? What did leavers vote for?) |
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25127096
New Member
🗨️ 570
👍🏻 402
December 2013
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Brexit
Aug 13, 2019 14:06:08 GMT 1
via mobile
Brexit, by 25127096 on Aug 13, 2019 14:06:08 GMT 1, John Bolton, following his first meeting with Prime Minister Boris Johnson in London, took aim at the EU for prolonging the Brexit process and not respecting the result of the 2016 referendum. Mr Bolton called the EU’s bluff and insisted its refusal to re-negotiate the failed withdrawal agreement was a ploy to “make the peasants vote again and again”. Mr Bolton said: “The fashion in the European Union is when the people vote the wrong way from the way the elites want to go, is to make the peasants vote again and again until they get it right. What are your thoughts on John Bolton’s words? Alot of people on here keep going on about how undemocratic brexit is and moaning it’s not fair, Is it not undemocratic that the vote to leave is not being respected. Why is the talk 90 percent of the time, only focused on the cost of brexit? Is that all people are interested in, the cost to your wallet/purse? What are your thoughts on fishing rights and the french insisting they have access to uk fishery’s or else? The threats from the eu and individual states is ridiculous because if the boot was on the other foot it just wouldn’t be accepted. ie if the eu would have voted for the uk to be booted out of the union then the uk demanded access to the free market or else, would you be in support? My opinion is the whole lot stinks, it doesn’t matter if you in or out, if you have a vote it should be accepted and championed by all instead of hindered until the loud mouths get there way. Is that not democratic? The vast majority voted in the costs to their wallets as used initially by brexiteers focusing on mainly the costs to uk citizens , manifesto of what the country would negotiate was not even made present then yet people still vited to leave not fully knowing the facts . As more debates and facts are presented some people are changing their views. Alot of people thought by leaving brexit the economy will automactically recover and everyones lives would be richer .how many thought about home industries , farming , fisheries etc ? Immigration was another of the main factor for most voting but many are unwilling yo admit kitside of their own circles
Thanks for the response.
I can agree with you on not knowing the full facts before the vote, although it would have been very difficult to know all the facts and educate everyone on them before the vote. Although a lot of people hate boris I think he’s quite a character but most importantly he has a back bone, agree with him or disagree, he seems to have made more head way in the past few weeks than his predecessor did the whole time she was in office. But If his 350 million slogan for nhs doesnt come to fruition, then he should face the wrath coming his way.
These people that you talk about “ everyone’s lives would be richer” what sort of time scale would be acceptable to people. The old saying Rome wasn’t built in a day comes to mind. I would be more than happy to lose for a few years to gain over a life time. Both parties will need time to readjust and find new paths, while that’s happening there will be uncertainty but that’s just the nature of the beast.
Lastly immigration was a big factor for a lot of people, but most keep silence as they are to afraid of being labelled a racist. I think the socialist view that social integration is an easy thing to achieve is nonsense and brexit is proving it. Also people don’t want to wait 3 weeks for a doctors appointment or 6-8 hours in a and e. The services and infrastructure need to be able to cope with the population, if they cannot people will look for someone to blame rightly or wrongly.
John Bolton, following his first meeting with Prime Minister Boris Johnson in London, took aim at the EU for prolonging the Brexit process and not respecting the result of the 2016 referendum. Mr Bolton called the EU’s bluff and insisted its refusal to re-negotiate the failed withdrawal agreement was a ploy to “make the peasants vote again and again”. Mr Bolton said: “The fashion in the European Union is when the people vote the wrong way from the way the elites want to go, is to make the peasants vote again and again until they get it right. What are your thoughts on John Bolton’s words? Alot of people on here keep going on about how undemocratic brexit is and moaning it’s not fair, Is it not undemocratic that the vote to leave is not being respected. Why is the talk 90 percent of the time, only focused on the cost of brexit? Is that all people are interested in, the cost to your wallet/purse? What are your thoughts on fishing rights and the french insisting they have access to uk fishery’s or else? The threats from the eu and individual states is ridiculous because if the boot was on the other foot it just wouldn’t be accepted. ie if the eu would have voted for the uk to be booted out of the union then the uk demanded access to the free market or else, would you be in support? My opinion is the whole lot stinks, it doesn’t matter if you in or out, if you have a vote it should be accepted and championed by all instead of hindered until the loud mouths get there way. Is that not democratic? The vast majority voted in the costs to their wallets as used initially by brexiteers focusing on mainly the costs to uk citizens , manifesto of what the country would negotiate was not even made present then yet people still vited to leave not fully knowing the facts . As more debates and facts are presented some people are changing their views. Alot of people thought by leaving brexit the economy will automactically recover and everyones lives would be richer .how many thought about home industries , farming , fisheries etc ? Immigration was another of the main factor for most voting but many are unwilling yo admit kitside of their own circles Thanks for the response. I can agree with you on not knowing the full facts before the vote, although it would have been very difficult to know all the facts and educate everyone on them before the vote. Although a lot of people hate boris I think he’s quite a character but most importantly he has a back bone, agree with him or disagree, he seems to have made more head way in the past few weeks than his predecessor did the whole time she was in office. But If his 350 million slogan for nhs doesnt come to fruition, then he should face the wrath coming his way. These people that you talk about “ everyone’s lives would be richer” what sort of time scale would be acceptable to people. The old saying Rome wasn’t built in a day comes to mind. I would be more than happy to lose for a few years to gain over a life time. Both parties will need time to readjust and find new paths, while that’s happening there will be uncertainty but that’s just the nature of the beast. Lastly immigration was a big factor for a lot of people, but most keep silence as they are to afraid of being labelled a racist. I think the socialist view that social integration is an easy thing to achieve is nonsense and brexit is proving it. Also people don’t want to wait 3 weeks for a doctors appointment or 6-8 hours in a and e. The services and infrastructure need to be able to cope with the population, if they cannot people will look for someone to blame rightly or wrongly. |
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Brexit
Aug 13, 2019 14:19:07 GMT 1
Brexit, by Happy Shopper on Aug 13, 2019 14:19:07 GMT 1, The vast majority voted in the costs to their wallets as used initially by brexiteers focusing on mainly the costs to uk citizens , manifesto of what the country would negotiate was not even made present then yet people still vited to leave not fully knowing the facts . As more debates and facts are presented some people are changing their views. Alot of people thought by leaving brexit the economy will automactically recover and everyones lives would be richer .how many thought about home industries , farming , fisheries etc ? Immigration was another of the main factor for most voting but many are unwilling yo admit kitside of their own circles Thanks for the response. I can agree with you on not knowing the full facts before the vote, although it would have been very difficult to know all the facts and educate everyone on them before the vote. Although a lot of people hate boris I think he’s quite a character but most importantly he has a back bone, agree with him or disagree, he seems to have made more head way in the past few weeks than his predecessor did the whole time she was in office. But If his 350 million slogan for nhs doesnt come to fruition, then he should face the wrath coming his way. These people that you talk about “ everyone’s lives would be richer” what sort of time scale would be acceptable to people. The old saying Rome wasn’t built in a day comes to mind. I would be more than happy to lose for a few years to gain over a life time. Both parties will need time to readjust and find new paths, while that’s happening there will be uncertainty but that’s just the nature of the beast. Lastly immigration was a big factor for a lot of people, but most keep silence as they are to afraid of being labelled a racist. I think the socialist view that social integration is an easy thing to achieve is nonsense and brexit is proving it. Also people don’t want to wait 3 weeks for a doctors appointment or 6-8 hours in a and e. The services and infrastructure need to be able to cope with the population, if they cannot people will look for someone to blame rightly or wrongly.
Not knowing what would happen should have been factored into the first vote. Options and possible outcomes (and a possible 2nd vote on them) should have been made clear.
Boris has no backbone... Remember he backed out of running to be Prime Minister the first time, after winning the referendum? He knew it was going to be a shitshow.
350 Million has already been proved a lie. Where's the "wrath"? People are idiots.
Immigration isn't to blame for poor NHS services. A lack of investment is the problem (and a bit of bad management). Making it more difficult for European nurses and doctors to work here will not help waiting times either!
The vast majority voted in the costs to their wallets as used initially by brexiteers focusing on mainly the costs to uk citizens , manifesto of what the country would negotiate was not even made present then yet people still vited to leave not fully knowing the facts . As more debates and facts are presented some people are changing their views. Alot of people thought by leaving brexit the economy will automactically recover and everyones lives would be richer .how many thought about home industries , farming , fisheries etc ? Immigration was another of the main factor for most voting but many are unwilling yo admit kitside of their own circles Thanks for the response. I can agree with you on not knowing the full facts before the vote, although it would have been very difficult to know all the facts and educate everyone on them before the vote. Although a lot of people hate boris I think he’s quite a character but most importantly he has a back bone, agree with him or disagree, he seems to have made more head way in the past few weeks than his predecessor did the whole time she was in office. But If his 350 million slogan for nhs doesnt come to fruition, then he should face the wrath coming his way. These people that you talk about “ everyone’s lives would be richer” what sort of time scale would be acceptable to people. The old saying Rome wasn’t built in a day comes to mind. I would be more than happy to lose for a few years to gain over a life time. Both parties will need time to readjust and find new paths, while that’s happening there will be uncertainty but that’s just the nature of the beast. Lastly immigration was a big factor for a lot of people, but most keep silence as they are to afraid of being labelled a racist. I think the socialist view that social integration is an easy thing to achieve is nonsense and brexit is proving it. Also people don’t want to wait 3 weeks for a doctors appointment or 6-8 hours in a and e. The services and infrastructure need to be able to cope with the population, if they cannot people will look for someone to blame rightly or wrongly. Not knowing what would happen should have been factored into the first vote. Options and possible outcomes (and a possible 2nd vote on them) should have been made clear. Boris has no backbone... Remember he backed out of running to be Prime Minister the first time, after winning the referendum? He knew it was going to be a shitshow. 350 Million has already been proved a lie. Where's the "wrath"? People are idiots. Immigration isn't to blame for poor NHS services. A lack of investment is the problem (and a bit of bad management). Making it more difficult for European nurses and doctors to work here will not help waiting times either! |
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25127096
New Member
🗨️ 570
👍🏻 402
December 2013
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Brexit
Aug 13, 2019 14:46:33 GMT 1
via mobile
Brexit, by 25127096 on Aug 13, 2019 14:46:33 GMT 1, Last time I remember John Bolton declaring himself sure about something was a) Saddam’s weapons of mass destruction (never found) and b) that the US forces would be greeted as liberators in Iraq (we all know how it went instead). That says it all: BS from a BSer. The guy got resurrected from the dustbin of history (where he belongs) only thanks to the inability of the Trump administration to attract credible hands on deck - republicans with reputation (I know for a fact) turn down this WH job offers because they don’t want to dirty their CVs.
I don’t know his history maybe I should have checked before I quoted him, I did agree with what he said though hence the quote.
Last time I remember John Bolton declaring himself sure about something was a) Saddam’s weapons of mass destruction (never found) and b) that the US forces would be greeted as liberators in Iraq (we all know how it went instead). That says it all: BS from a BSer. The guy got resurrected from the dustbin of history (where he belongs) only thanks to the inability of the Trump administration to attract credible hands on deck - republicans with reputation (I know for a fact) turn down this WH job offers because they don’t want to dirty their CVs. I don’t know his history maybe I should have checked before I quoted him, I did agree with what he said though hence the quote. |
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tab1
Full Member
🗨️ 8,519
👍🏻 3,679
September 2011
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Brexit
Aug 13, 2019 15:18:04 GMT 1
via mobile
Brexit, by tab1 on Aug 13, 2019 15:18:04 GMT 1, Thanks for the response. I can agree with you on not knowing the full facts before the vote, although it would have been very difficult to know all the facts and educate everyone on them before the vote. Although a lot of people hate boris I think he’s quite a character but most importantly he has a back bone, agree with him or disagree, he seems to have made more head way in the past few weeks than his predecessor did the whole time she was in office. But If his 350 million slogan for nhs doesnt come to fruition, then he should face the wrath coming his way. These people that you talk about “ everyone’s lives would be richer” what sort of time scale would be acceptable to people. The old saying Rome wasn’t built in a day comes to mind. I would be more than happy to lose for a few years to gain over a life time. Both parties will need time to readjust and find new paths, while that’s happening there will be uncertainty but that’s just the nature of the beast. Lastly immigration was a big factor for a lot of people, but most keep silence as they are to afraid of being labelled a racist. I think the socialist view that social integration is an easy thing to achieve is nonsense and brexit is proving it. Also people don’t want to wait 3 weeks for a doctors appointment or 6-8 hours in a and e. The services and infrastructure need to be able to cope with the population, if they cannot people will look for someone to blame rightly or wrongly. Not knowing what would happen should have been factored into the first vote. Options and possible outcomes (and a possible 2nd vote on them) should have been made clear. Boris has no backbone... Remember he backed out of running to be Prime Minister the first time, after winning the referendum? He knew it was going to be as**tshow. 350 Million has already been proved a lie. Where's the "wrath"? People are idiots. Immigration isn't to blame for poor NHS services. A lack of investment is the problem (and a bit of bad management). Making it more difficult for European nurses and doctors to work here will not help waiting times either!
A lack of investment by numerous governments investing in the public sector has led to this mess and immigration has put a strain on the nhs.. government quick fix was to cut immigration but still have perks of the eu which didn't materialize.
I work in the public sector and all my colleagues did not know at the time what brexit entailed but were happy to vote based on the promise of cutting immigration.
Thanks for the response. I can agree with you on not knowing the full facts before the vote, although it would have been very difficult to know all the facts and educate everyone on them before the vote. Although a lot of people hate boris I think he’s quite a character but most importantly he has a back bone, agree with him or disagree, he seems to have made more head way in the past few weeks than his predecessor did the whole time she was in office. But If his 350 million slogan for nhs doesnt come to fruition, then he should face the wrath coming his way. These people that you talk about “ everyone’s lives would be richer” what sort of time scale would be acceptable to people. The old saying Rome wasn’t built in a day comes to mind. I would be more than happy to lose for a few years to gain over a life time. Both parties will need time to readjust and find new paths, while that’s happening there will be uncertainty but that’s just the nature of the beast. Lastly immigration was a big factor for a lot of people, but most keep silence as they are to afraid of being labelled a racist. I think the socialist view that social integration is an easy thing to achieve is nonsense and brexit is proving it. Also people don’t want to wait 3 weeks for a doctors appointment or 6-8 hours in a and e. The services and infrastructure need to be able to cope with the population, if they cannot people will look for someone to blame rightly or wrongly. Not knowing what would happen should have been factored into the first vote. Options and possible outcomes (and a possible 2nd vote on them) should have been made clear. Boris has no backbone... Remember he backed out of running to be Prime Minister the first time, after winning the referendum? He knew it was going to be as**tshow. 350 Million has already been proved a lie. Where's the "wrath"? People are idiots. Immigration isn't to blame for poor NHS services. A lack of investment is the problem (and a bit of bad management). Making it more difficult for European nurses and doctors to work here will not help waiting times either! A lack of investment by numerous governments investing in the public sector has led to this mess and immigration has put a strain on the nhs.. government quick fix was to cut immigration but still have perks of the eu which didn't materialize. I work in the public sector and all my colleagues did not know at the time what brexit entailed but were happy to vote based on the promise of cutting immigration. |
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tab1
Full Member
🗨️ 8,519
👍🏻 3,679
September 2011
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Brexit
Aug 13, 2019 15:20:45 GMT 1
via mobile
Brexit, by tab1 on Aug 13, 2019 15:20:45 GMT 1, The vast majority voted in the costs to their wallets as used initially by brexiteers focusing on mainly the costs to uk citizens , manifesto of what the country would negotiate was not even made present then yet people still vited to leave not fully knowing the facts . As more debates and facts are presented some people are changing their views. Alot of people thought by leaving brexit the economy will automactically recover and everyones lives would be richer .how many thought about home industries , farming , fisheries etc ? Immigration was another of the main factor for most voting but many are unwilling yo admit kitside of their own circles Thanks for the response. I can agree with you on not knowing the full facts before the vote, although it would have been very difficult to know all the facts and educate everyone on them before the vote. Although a lot of people hate boris I think he’s quite a character but most importantly he has a back bone, agree with him or disagree, he seems to have made more head way in the past few weeks than his predecessor did the whole time she was in office. But If his 350 million slogan for nhs doesnt come to fruition, then he should face the wrath coming his way. These people that you talk about “ everyone’s lives would be richer” what sort of time scale would be acceptable to people. The old saying Rome wasn’t built in a day comes to mind. I would be more than happy to lose for a few years to gain over a life time. Both parties will need time to readjust and find new paths, while that’s happening there will be uncertainty but that’s just the nature of the beast. Lastly immigration was a big factor for a lot of people, but most keep silence as they are to afraid of being labelled a racist. I think the socialist view that social integration is an easy thing to achieve is nonsense and brexit is proving it. Also people don’t want to wait 3 weeks for a doctors appointment or 6-8 hours in a and e. The services and infrastructure need to be able to cope with the population, if they cannot people will look for someone to blame rightly or wrongly.
A good government should imform
Pros and cons before asking the public to vote on such an import matter that effects the entirety of the nation
The vast majority voted in the costs to their wallets as used initially by brexiteers focusing on mainly the costs to uk citizens , manifesto of what the country would negotiate was not even made present then yet people still vited to leave not fully knowing the facts . As more debates and facts are presented some people are changing their views. Alot of people thought by leaving brexit the economy will automactically recover and everyones lives would be richer .how many thought about home industries , farming , fisheries etc ? Immigration was another of the main factor for most voting but many are unwilling yo admit kitside of their own circles Thanks for the response. I can agree with you on not knowing the full facts before the vote, although it would have been very difficult to know all the facts and educate everyone on them before the vote. Although a lot of people hate boris I think he’s quite a character but most importantly he has a back bone, agree with him or disagree, he seems to have made more head way in the past few weeks than his predecessor did the whole time she was in office. But If his 350 million slogan for nhs doesnt come to fruition, then he should face the wrath coming his way. These people that you talk about “ everyone’s lives would be richer” what sort of time scale would be acceptable to people. The old saying Rome wasn’t built in a day comes to mind. I would be more than happy to lose for a few years to gain over a life time. Both parties will need time to readjust and find new paths, while that’s happening there will be uncertainty but that’s just the nature of the beast. Lastly immigration was a big factor for a lot of people, but most keep silence as they are to afraid of being labelled a racist. I think the socialist view that social integration is an easy thing to achieve is nonsense and brexit is proving it. Also people don’t want to wait 3 weeks for a doctors appointment or 6-8 hours in a and e. The services and infrastructure need to be able to cope with the population, if they cannot people will look for someone to blame rightly or wrongly. A good government should imform Pros and cons before asking the public to vote on such an import matter that effects the entirety of the nation |
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tab1
Full Member
🗨️ 8,519
👍🏻 3,679
September 2011
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Brexit
Aug 13, 2019 15:22:04 GMT 1
via mobile
Brexit, by tab1 on Aug 13, 2019 15:22:04 GMT 1, We will see if boris comes through with his promises
We will see if boris comes through with his promises
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25127096
New Member
🗨️ 570
👍🏻 402
December 2013
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Brexit
Aug 13, 2019 15:24:51 GMT 1
via mobile
Brexit, by 25127096 on Aug 13, 2019 15:24:51 GMT 1, Thanks for the response. I can agree with you on not knowing the full facts before the vote, although it would have been very difficult to know all the facts and educate everyone on them before the vote. Although a lot of people hate boris I think he’s quite a character but most importantly he has a back bone, agree with him or disagree, he seems to have made more head way in the past few weeks than his predecessor did the whole time she was in office. But If his 350 million slogan for nhs doesnt come to fruition, then he should face the wrath coming his way. These people that you talk about “ everyone’s lives would be richer” what sort of time scale would be acceptable to people. The old saying Rome wasn’t built in a day comes to mind. I would be more than happy to lose for a few years to gain over a life time. Both parties will need time to readjust and find new paths, while that’s happening there will be uncertainty but that’s just the nature of the beast. Lastly immigration was a big factor for a lot of people, but most keep silence as they are to afraid of being labelled a racist. I think the socialist view that social integration is an easy thing to achieve is nonsense and brexit is proving it. Also people don’t want to wait 3 weeks for a doctors appointment or 6-8 hours in a and e. The services and infrastructure need to be able to cope with the population, if they cannot people will look for someone to blame rightly or wrongly. Not knowing what would happen should have been factored into the first vote. Options and possible outcomes (and a possible 2nd vote on them) should have been made clear. Boris has no backbone... Remember he backed out of running to be Prime Minister the first time, after winning the referendum? He knew it was going to be as**tshow. 350 Million has already been proved a lie. Where's the "wrath"? People are idiots. Immigration isn't to blame for poor NHS services. A lack of investment is the problem (and a bit of bad management). Making it more difficult for European nurses and doctors to work here will not help waiting times either!
Your first point is true, and sounds better than what was offered as a vote but that was not what was voted for so we cannot really debate it.
I disagree with the boris response. He made way for gove who had already thrown his hat in the ring and stepped a side, which I respect. He would have been in a much better position if he would have gone for it then.
We have not yet left the eu, only then can he put the supposed 350 million into the nhs as the 39 billion will not be paided or at least that’s the pot he implied he would be taking it from. Although he didn’t specify a time scale so he could get out of it pretty easy. I hope he does keep to his word but only time will tell.
I’m not saying that immigration is the cause, I said rightly or wrongly people want someone to blame, unfortunately immigrants get it in the neck. On the contrary though if the nhs can only support let’s say a million people 1 million and one would be too much and then compromise would have to be found. The nhs cannot look after everyone unless it had an unlimited budget. I agree that poor management and investment are definitely the cause of the nhs’s demise.
Thanks for the response. I can agree with you on not knowing the full facts before the vote, although it would have been very difficult to know all the facts and educate everyone on them before the vote. Although a lot of people hate boris I think he’s quite a character but most importantly he has a back bone, agree with him or disagree, he seems to have made more head way in the past few weeks than his predecessor did the whole time she was in office. But If his 350 million slogan for nhs doesnt come to fruition, then he should face the wrath coming his way. These people that you talk about “ everyone’s lives would be richer” what sort of time scale would be acceptable to people. The old saying Rome wasn’t built in a day comes to mind. I would be more than happy to lose for a few years to gain over a life time. Both parties will need time to readjust and find new paths, while that’s happening there will be uncertainty but that’s just the nature of the beast. Lastly immigration was a big factor for a lot of people, but most keep silence as they are to afraid of being labelled a racist. I think the socialist view that social integration is an easy thing to achieve is nonsense and brexit is proving it. Also people don’t want to wait 3 weeks for a doctors appointment or 6-8 hours in a and e. The services and infrastructure need to be able to cope with the population, if they cannot people will look for someone to blame rightly or wrongly. Not knowing what would happen should have been factored into the first vote. Options and possible outcomes (and a possible 2nd vote on them) should have been made clear. Boris has no backbone... Remember he backed out of running to be Prime Minister the first time, after winning the referendum? He knew it was going to be as**tshow. 350 Million has already been proved a lie. Where's the "wrath"? People are idiots. Immigration isn't to blame for poor NHS services. A lack of investment is the problem (and a bit of bad management). Making it more difficult for European nurses and doctors to work here will not help waiting times either! Your first point is true, and sounds better than what was offered as a vote but that was not what was voted for so we cannot really debate it. I disagree with the boris response. He made way for gove who had already thrown his hat in the ring and stepped a side, which I respect. He would have been in a much better position if he would have gone for it then. We have not yet left the eu, only then can he put the supposed 350 million into the nhs as the 39 billion will not be paided or at least that’s the pot he implied he would be taking it from. Although he didn’t specify a time scale so he could get out of it pretty easy. I hope he does keep to his word but only time will tell. I’m not saying that immigration is the cause, I said rightly or wrongly people want someone to blame, unfortunately immigrants get it in the neck. On the contrary though if the nhs can only support let’s say a million people 1 million and one would be too much and then compromise would have to be found. The nhs cannot look after everyone unless it had an unlimited budget. I agree that poor management and investment are definitely the cause of the nhs’s demise. |
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25127096
New Member
🗨️ 570
👍🏻 402
December 2013
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Brexit
Aug 13, 2019 15:42:32 GMT 1
via mobile
Brexit, by 25127096 on Aug 13, 2019 15:42:32 GMT 1, Alot of people on here keep going on about how undemocratic brexit is and moaning it’s not fair, Is it not undemocratic that the vote to leave is not being respected. I think there is certainly an argument to be made that the result of the original vote should be respected. However, I do think it's more nuanced than that. With hindsight, I think it can be agreed that the wording/specifics of the original vote was flawed. Essentially we were offered the choice of remaining in the EU, or the hypothetical option of leaving the EU, without any knowledge of what leaving the EU might look like. Campaigners in favour of leaving suggested/promised that leaving would be easy and risk-free, with prosperity for all. Campaigners in favour of remaining suggested/promised that leaving would be a disaster for all. But really, no-one knew what leaving might look like, or what our future relationship with the EU might look like. Promises and exaggerations were offered from both sides. Now that we're 3 years on, and generally have a better idea of how leaving the EU might work, and what options are available, personally I don't think it would be undemocratic to have an a new vote based on realities rather than hypotheticals. I voted to remain, and would vote to remain again given the choice. But if a referendum were offered again based on the factual options that we now have, and if the country voted to leave under the terms of the withdrawal agreement, or even without a deal, then it would be difficult to find argument with that, and it would have to be respected. For what it's worth, my choice to remain was not financially motivated. The most important thing to me is/was the freedom of movement. I have been lucky to have born with the option to live/love/work throughout the EU - something that I've always taken for granted. The thought that our next generation(s) will not inherit that freedom is deeply saddening to me.
I cannot disagree with reason, Although I try and look at both sides of the coin. Loosing freedom of movement is a pain but we or they are not banned .
The only problem with a second referendum now is will we all like the only options they give us if we don’t then do we have a third a fourth vote etc which bring me back to the first point I quoted. The elite just hate the business loss, not the effect on people or services.
We don’t know what post brexit will look like yet, all the markets are reflecting is what uncertainty does to the market. If and when things are ironed out, only then will we be able to see what realistic paths we can take. And if or not the future will be bright or bleak. I’m optimistic about the opportunity the country will be open to after brexit.
But I have got to say that my intelligence is only as good as the average person. I’m trying to formulate an opinion based on what I hear and read. I’m no economist, banker or country leader, I’m just an electrician.
Alot of people on here keep going on about how undemocratic brexit is and moaning it’s not fair, Is it not undemocratic that the vote to leave is not being respected. I think there is certainly an argument to be made that the result of the original vote should be respected. However, I do think it's more nuanced than that. With hindsight, I think it can be agreed that the wording/specifics of the original vote was flawed. Essentially we were offered the choice of remaining in the EU, or the hypothetical option of leaving the EU, without any knowledge of what leaving the EU might look like. Campaigners in favour of leaving suggested/promised that leaving would be easy and risk-free, with prosperity for all. Campaigners in favour of remaining suggested/promised that leaving would be a disaster for all. But really, no-one knew what leaving might look like, or what our future relationship with the EU might look like. Promises and exaggerations were offered from both sides. Now that we're 3 years on, and generally have a better idea of how leaving the EU might work, and what options are available, personally I don't think it would be undemocratic to have an a new vote based on realities rather than hypotheticals. I voted to remain, and would vote to remain again given the choice. But if a referendum were offered again based on the factual options that we now have, and if the country voted to leave under the terms of the withdrawal agreement, or even without a deal, then it would be difficult to find argument with that, and it would have to be respected. For what it's worth, my choice to remain was not financially motivated. The most important thing to me is/was the freedom of movement. I have been lucky to have born with the option to live/love/work throughout the EU - something that I've always taken for granted. The thought that our next generation(s) will not inherit that freedom is deeply saddening to me. I cannot disagree with reason, Although I try and look at both sides of the coin. Loosing freedom of movement is a pain but we or they are not banned . The only problem with a second referendum now is will we all like the only options they give us if we don’t then do we have a third a fourth vote etc which bring me back to the first point I quoted. The elite just hate the business loss, not the effect on people or services. We don’t know what post brexit will look like yet, all the markets are reflecting is what uncertainty does to the market. If and when things are ironed out, only then will we be able to see what realistic paths we can take. And if or not the future will be bright or bleak. I’m optimistic about the opportunity the country will be open to after brexit. But I have got to say that my intelligence is only as good as the average person. I’m trying to formulate an opinion based on what I hear and read. I’m no economist, banker or country leader, I’m just an electrician. |
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Brexit
Aug 13, 2019 15:48:05 GMT 1
Brexit, by Happy Shopper on Aug 13, 2019 15:48:05 GMT 1, Not knowing what would happen should have been factored into the first vote. Options and possible outcomes (and a possible 2nd vote on them) should have been made clear. Boris has no backbone... Remember he backed out of running to be Prime Minister the first time, after winning the referendum? He knew it was going to be as**tshow. 350 Million has already been proved a lie. Where's the "wrath"? People are idiots. Immigration isn't to blame for poor NHS services. A lack of investment is the problem (and a bit of bad management). Making it more difficult for European nurses and doctors to work here will not help waiting times either! Your first point is true, and sounds better than what was offered as a vote but that was not what was voted for so we cannot really debate it. I disagree with the boris response. He made way for gove who had already thrown his hat in the ring and stepped a side, which I respect. He would have been in a much better position if he would have gone for it then. We have not yet left the eu, only then can he put the supposed 350 million into the nhs as the 39 billion will not be paided or at least that’s the pot he implied he would be taking it from. Although he didn’t specify a time scale so he could get out of it pretty easy. I hope he does keep to his word but only time will tell. I’m not saying that immigration is the cause, I said rightly or wrongly people want someone to blame, unfortunately immigrants get it in the neck. On the contrary though if the nhs can only support let’s say a million people 1 million and one would be too much and then compromise would have to be found. The nhs cannot look after everyone unless it had an unlimited budget. I agree that poor management and investment are definitely the cause of the nhs’s demise.
If Boris really wanted to be Prime Minister at the time he should of run. Games were being played by the conservatives at the expense of the country, as usual.
350 million ("currently going to the EU that could be redirected to the NHS") has been proved to be made up. Even the Leave campaign have said it was only an example of where money could be spent... total nonsense in the end! Everyone knows it.
Bigger population means more tax going to the Government, who should be investing it in the facilities we all need (and pay for)
In that sense the NHS could have an unlimited budget. We all pay for the service. Immigrants bring in more tax than they use on benefits.
Not knowing what would happen should have been factored into the first vote. Options and possible outcomes (and a possible 2nd vote on them) should have been made clear. Boris has no backbone... Remember he backed out of running to be Prime Minister the first time, after winning the referendum? He knew it was going to be as**tshow. 350 Million has already been proved a lie. Where's the "wrath"? People are idiots. Immigration isn't to blame for poor NHS services. A lack of investment is the problem (and a bit of bad management). Making it more difficult for European nurses and doctors to work here will not help waiting times either! Your first point is true, and sounds better than what was offered as a vote but that was not what was voted for so we cannot really debate it. I disagree with the boris response. He made way for gove who had already thrown his hat in the ring and stepped a side, which I respect. He would have been in a much better position if he would have gone for it then. We have not yet left the eu, only then can he put the supposed 350 million into the nhs as the 39 billion will not be paided or at least that’s the pot he implied he would be taking it from. Although he didn’t specify a time scale so he could get out of it pretty easy. I hope he does keep to his word but only time will tell. I’m not saying that immigration is the cause, I said rightly or wrongly people want someone to blame, unfortunately immigrants get it in the neck. On the contrary though if the nhs can only support let’s say a million people 1 million and one would be too much and then compromise would have to be found. The nhs cannot look after everyone unless it had an unlimited budget. I agree that poor management and investment are definitely the cause of the nhs’s demise. If Boris really wanted to be Prime Minister at the time he should of run. Games were being played by the conservatives at the expense of the country, as usual. 350 million ("currently going to the EU that could be redirected to the NHS") has been proved to be made up. Even the Leave campaign have said it was only an example of where money could be spent... total nonsense in the end! Everyone knows it. Bigger population means more tax going to the Government, who should be investing it in the facilities we all need (and pay for) In that sense the NHS could have an unlimited budget. We all pay for the service. Immigrants bring in more tax than they use on benefits. |
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25127096
New Member
🗨️ 570
👍🏻 402
December 2013
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Brexit
Aug 13, 2019 15:52:57 GMT 1
via mobile
Brexit, by 25127096 on Aug 13, 2019 15:52:57 GMT 1, John Bolton, following his first meeting with Prime Minister Boris Johnson in London, took aim at the EU for prolonging the Brexit process and not respecting the result of the 2016 referendum. Mr Bolton called the EU’s bluff and insisted its refusal to re-negotiate the failed withdrawal agreement was a ploy to “make the peasants vote again and again”. Mr Bolton said: “The fashion in the European Union is when the people vote the wrong way from the way the elites want to go, is to make the peasants vote again and again until they get it right. What are your thoughts on John Bolton’s words? Alot of people on here keep going on about how undemocratic brexit is and moaning it’s not fair, Is it not undemocratic that the vote to leave is not being respected. Why is the talk 90 percent of the time, only focused on the cost of brexit? Is that all people are interested in, the cost to your wallet/purse? What are your thoughts on fishing rights and the french insisting they have access to uk fishery’s or else? The threats from the eu and individual states is ridiculous because if the boot was on the other foot it just wouldn’t be accepted. ie if the eu would have voted for the uk to be booted out of the union then the uk demanded access to the free market or else, would you be in support? My opinion is the whole lot stinks, it doesn’t matter if you in or out, if you have a vote it should be accepted and championed by all instead of hindered until the loud mouths get there way. Is that not democratic? Americans want the NHS It's a business deal. All about making money. One way traffic. What did the leave vote mean? With a deal? With no deal? What did leavers vote for?)
Honestly, without coining mrs mays slogan leave meant leave not make deals , pay ransoms (which is what it’s been made to sound like)etc. I was under the impression that we would just leave but that shows my nativity towards the relationship with the eu and how trade and markets work, which I’m still trying to understand. There was no talk until mrs may took over about making a deal to leave. I think that caught a lot of people off guard.
John Bolton, following his first meeting with Prime Minister Boris Johnson in London, took aim at the EU for prolonging the Brexit process and not respecting the result of the 2016 referendum. Mr Bolton called the EU’s bluff and insisted its refusal to re-negotiate the failed withdrawal agreement was a ploy to “make the peasants vote again and again”. Mr Bolton said: “The fashion in the European Union is when the people vote the wrong way from the way the elites want to go, is to make the peasants vote again and again until they get it right. What are your thoughts on John Bolton’s words? Alot of people on here keep going on about how undemocratic brexit is and moaning it’s not fair, Is it not undemocratic that the vote to leave is not being respected. Why is the talk 90 percent of the time, only focused on the cost of brexit? Is that all people are interested in, the cost to your wallet/purse? What are your thoughts on fishing rights and the french insisting they have access to uk fishery’s or else? The threats from the eu and individual states is ridiculous because if the boot was on the other foot it just wouldn’t be accepted. ie if the eu would have voted for the uk to be booted out of the union then the uk demanded access to the free market or else, would you be in support? My opinion is the whole lot stinks, it doesn’t matter if you in or out, if you have a vote it should be accepted and championed by all instead of hindered until the loud mouths get there way. Is that not democratic? Americans want the NHS It's a business deal. All about making money. One way traffic. What did the leave vote mean? With a deal? With no deal? What did leavers vote for?) Honestly, without coining mrs mays slogan leave meant leave not make deals , pay ransoms (which is what it’s been made to sound like)etc. I was under the impression that we would just leave but that shows my nativity towards the relationship with the eu and how trade and markets work, which I’m still trying to understand. There was no talk until mrs may took over about making a deal to leave. I think that caught a lot of people off guard. |
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k2
New Member
🗨️ 528
👍🏻 972
November 2016
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Brexit
Aug 13, 2019 15:57:18 GMT 1
Brexit, by k2 on Aug 13, 2019 15:57:18 GMT 1, I think there is certainly an argument to be made that the result of the original vote should be respected. However, I do think it's more nuanced than that. With hindsight, I think it can be agreed that the wording/specifics of the original vote was flawed. Essentially we were offered the choice of remaining in the EU, or the hypothetical option of leaving the EU, without any knowledge of what leaving the EU might look like. Campaigners in favour of leaving suggested/promised that leaving would be easy and risk-free, with prosperity for all. Campaigners in favour of remaining suggested/promised that leaving would be a disaster for all. But really, no-one knew what leaving might look like, or what our future relationship with the EU might look like. Promises and exaggerations were offered from both sides. Now that we're 3 years on, and generally have a better idea of how leaving the EU might work, and what options are available, personally I don't think it would be undemocratic to have an a new vote based on realities rather than hypotheticals. I voted to remain, and would vote to remain again given the choice. But if a referendum were offered again based on the factual options that we now have, and if the country voted to leave under the terms of the withdrawal agreement, or even without a deal, then it would be difficult to find argument with that, and it would have to be respected. For what it's worth, my choice to remain was not financially motivated. The most important thing to me is/was the freedom of movement. I have been lucky to have born with the option to live/love/work throughout the EU - something that I've always taken for granted. The thought that our next generation(s) will not inherit that freedom is deeply saddening to me. I cannot disagree with reason, Although I try and look at both sides of the coin. Loosing freedom of movement is a pain but we or they are not banned . The only problem with a second referendum now is will we all like the only options they give us if we don’t then do we have a third a fourth vote etc which bring me back to the first point I quoted. The elite just hate the business loss, not the effect on people or services. We don’t know what post brexit will look like yet, all the markets are reflecting is what uncertainty does to the market. If and when things are ironed out, only then will we be able to see what realistic paths we can take. And if or not the future will be bright or bleak. I’m optimistic about the opportunity the country will be open to after brexit. But I have got to say that my intelligence is only as good as the average person. I’m trying to formulate an opinion based on what I hear and read. I’m no economist, banker or country leader, I’m just an electrician.
As for being 'just' an electrician. As it happens, I don't need an economist, or a banker, or a country leader right now. What I do need is an electrician. If you happen to be in the South-West (ideally, Cornwall!), please get in touch. Everyone seems to be an expert on economics all of a sudden, but I can't find someone to do a bloody rewire.
I think there is certainly an argument to be made that the result of the original vote should be respected. However, I do think it's more nuanced than that. With hindsight, I think it can be agreed that the wording/specifics of the original vote was flawed. Essentially we were offered the choice of remaining in the EU, or the hypothetical option of leaving the EU, without any knowledge of what leaving the EU might look like. Campaigners in favour of leaving suggested/promised that leaving would be easy and risk-free, with prosperity for all. Campaigners in favour of remaining suggested/promised that leaving would be a disaster for all. But really, no-one knew what leaving might look like, or what our future relationship with the EU might look like. Promises and exaggerations were offered from both sides. Now that we're 3 years on, and generally have a better idea of how leaving the EU might work, and what options are available, personally I don't think it would be undemocratic to have an a new vote based on realities rather than hypotheticals. I voted to remain, and would vote to remain again given the choice. But if a referendum were offered again based on the factual options that we now have, and if the country voted to leave under the terms of the withdrawal agreement, or even without a deal, then it would be difficult to find argument with that, and it would have to be respected. For what it's worth, my choice to remain was not financially motivated. The most important thing to me is/was the freedom of movement. I have been lucky to have born with the option to live/love/work throughout the EU - something that I've always taken for granted. The thought that our next generation(s) will not inherit that freedom is deeply saddening to me. I cannot disagree with reason, Although I try and look at both sides of the coin. Loosing freedom of movement is a pain but we or they are not banned . The only problem with a second referendum now is will we all like the only options they give us if we don’t then do we have a third a fourth vote etc which bring me back to the first point I quoted. The elite just hate the business loss, not the effect on people or services. We don’t know what post brexit will look like yet, all the markets are reflecting is what uncertainty does to the market. If and when things are ironed out, only then will we be able to see what realistic paths we can take. And if or not the future will be bright or bleak. I’m optimistic about the opportunity the country will be open to after brexit. But I have got to say that my intelligence is only as good as the average person. I’m trying to formulate an opinion based on what I hear and read. I’m no economist, banker or country leader, I’m just an electrician. It's refreshing to hear someone admitting that they're not an expert, but are simply trying to formulate an opinion. I'm in the same boat as you - I'm no expert. It seems there are no absolutes, all we can do is to try to read and hear facts and opinions from a variety of sources and try to make up our own mind. As for being 'just' an electrician. As it happens, I don't need an economist, or a banker, or a country leader right now. What I do need is an electrician. If you happen to be in the South-West (ideally, Cornwall!), please get in touch. Everyone seems to be an expert on economics all of a sudden, but I can't find someone to do a bloody rewire. |
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25127096
New Member
🗨️ 570
👍🏻 402
December 2013
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Brexit
Aug 13, 2019 16:26:52 GMT 1
via mobile
Brexit, by 25127096 on Aug 13, 2019 16:26:52 GMT 1, I cannot disagree with reason, Although I try and look at both sides of the coin. Loosing freedom of movement is a pain but we or they are not banned . The only problem with a second referendum now is will we all like the only options they give us if we don’t then do we have a third a fourth vote etc which bring me back to the first point I quoted. The elite just hate the business loss, not the effect on people or services. We don’t know what post brexit will look like yet, all the markets are reflecting is what uncertainty does to the market. If and when things are ironed out, only then will we be able to see what realistic paths we can take. And if or not the future will be bright or bleak. I’m optimistic about the opportunity the country will be open to after brexit. But I have got to say that my intelligence is only as good as the average person. I’m trying to formulate an opinion based on what I hear and read. I’m no economist, banker or country leader, I’m just an electrician. It's refreshing to hear someone admitting that they're not an expert, but are simply trying to formulate an opinion. I'm in the same boat as you - I'm no expert. It seems there are no absolutes, all we can do is to try to read and hear facts and opinions from a variety of sources and try to make up our own mind. As for being 'just' an electrician. As it happens, I don't need an economist, or a banker, or a country leader right now. What I do need is an electrician. If you happen to be in the South-West (ideally, Cornwall!), please get in touch. Everyone seems to be an expert on economics all of a sudden, but I can't find someone to do a bloody rewire.
wish I could help you out buddy, unfortunately I’m in sunny Birmingham. Thanks for the kind word thought.
Try calling the Niceic they usually have a list of contractors for the area they are registered in, here’s the number 0303 123 1113. Hope you get it sorted.
I cannot disagree with reason, Although I try and look at both sides of the coin. Loosing freedom of movement is a pain but we or they are not banned . The only problem with a second referendum now is will we all like the only options they give us if we don’t then do we have a third a fourth vote etc which bring me back to the first point I quoted. The elite just hate the business loss, not the effect on people or services. We don’t know what post brexit will look like yet, all the markets are reflecting is what uncertainty does to the market. If and when things are ironed out, only then will we be able to see what realistic paths we can take. And if or not the future will be bright or bleak. I’m optimistic about the opportunity the country will be open to after brexit. But I have got to say that my intelligence is only as good as the average person. I’m trying to formulate an opinion based on what I hear and read. I’m no economist, banker or country leader, I’m just an electrician. It's refreshing to hear someone admitting that they're not an expert, but are simply trying to formulate an opinion. I'm in the same boat as you - I'm no expert. It seems there are no absolutes, all we can do is to try to read and hear facts and opinions from a variety of sources and try to make up our own mind. As for being 'just' an electrician. As it happens, I don't need an economist, or a banker, or a country leader right now. What I do need is an electrician. If you happen to be in the South-West (ideally, Cornwall!), please get in touch. Everyone seems to be an expert on economics all of a sudden, but I can't find someone to do a bloody rewire. wish I could help you out buddy, unfortunately I’m in sunny Birmingham. Thanks for the kind word thought. Try calling the Niceic they usually have a list of contractors for the area they are registered in, here’s the number 0303 123 1113. Hope you get it sorted. |
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Brexit
Aug 14, 2019 16:02:14 GMT 1
Brexit, by Fast Eddie on Aug 14, 2019 16:02:14 GMT 1, Economics should disturb the disturbed and comfort the comfortable.
Economics should disturb the disturbed and comfort the comfortable.
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Brexit
Aug 14, 2019 17:13:56 GMT 1
Brexit, by Happy Shopper on Aug 14, 2019 17:13:56 GMT 1, Support the Country you live in or go and live in a Country you do support
Is knowingly doing something that will hurt the economy and lose jobs "supporting"?
Support the Country you live in or go and live in a Country you do support Is knowingly doing something that will hurt the economy and lose jobs "supporting"? |
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Chris JL
Junior Member
🗨️ 1,766
👍🏻 1,852
March 2017
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Brexit, by Chris JL on Aug 16, 2019 9:04:23 GMT 1, Exclusive first look at Corbyn ‘Caretaker’ 
Indeed there is the need of somebody to clean up the mess brexiters have made. (But someone else might be more suited)
Exclusive first look at Corbyn ‘Caretaker’ Indeed there is the need of somebody to clean up the mess brexiters have made. (But someone else might be more suited) |
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irl1
Full Member
🗨️ 9,274
👍🏻 9,381
December 2017
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Brexit
Aug 20, 2019 10:30:22 GMT 1
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moron
Junior Member
🗨️ 2,711
👍🏻 1,051
September 2017
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Brexit
Aug 24, 2019 22:00:01 GMT 1
Brexit, by moron on Aug 24, 2019 22:00:01 GMT 1, It's a nightmare in reality.
This Brexit from the reason for having the referendum. Cameron never believing the vote would be leave and expecting the Tories to be re elected with him as leader. When he tried to show some backbone to the EU and misread everything. To the awful remain and leave campaigns. The remain was virtually non existent and the leave campaign ignored the negative aspects playing on the Britain is still Great myth.
Now we see Bojo the bullshitter back pedalling with regard to a deal with Merkel and Macron. What it has to do with those two clowns deciding everything for 27 countries is beyond me. Merkel has virtually Bankrupt Germany and Macron is washed up anyway.
Bojo will give amnesty to half a million illegal immigrants similar to what Blair did and at the same time thinks he can kick out I don't know how many tens of thousands of EU citizens who entered the UK legally.
After Brexit it won't stop European criminal gangs entering and staying in the UK using bribery corruption and false passports identities etc.
Nothing was thought out and the only people Brexit will not affect will be the wealthy.
It's a nightmare in reality.
This Brexit from the reason for having the referendum. Cameron never believing the vote would be leave and expecting the Tories to be re elected with him as leader. When he tried to show some backbone to the EU and misread everything. To the awful remain and leave campaigns. The remain was virtually non existent and the leave campaign ignored the negative aspects playing on the Britain is still Great myth.
Now we see Bojo the bullshitter back pedalling with regard to a deal with Merkel and Macron. What it has to do with those two clowns deciding everything for 27 countries is beyond me. Merkel has virtually Bankrupt Germany and Macron is washed up anyway.
Bojo will give amnesty to half a million illegal immigrants similar to what Blair did and at the same time thinks he can kick out I don't know how many tens of thousands of EU citizens who entered the UK legally.
After Brexit it won't stop European criminal gangs entering and staying in the UK using bribery corruption and false passports identities etc.
Nothing was thought out and the only people Brexit will not affect will be the wealthy.
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Brexit
Aug 25, 2019 11:44:38 GMT 1
Brexit, by Bill Hicks on Aug 25, 2019 11:44:38 GMT 1,
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Brexit
Aug 25, 2019 13:49:59 GMT 1
Brexit, by Daylight Robber on Aug 25, 2019 13:49:59 GMT 1, It's a nightmare in reality. This Brexit from the reason for having the referendum. Cameron never believing the vote would be leave and expecting the Tories to be re elected with him as leader. When he tried to show some backbone to the EU and misread everything. To the awful remain and leave campaigns. The remain was virtually non existent and the leave campaign ignored the negative aspects playing on the Britain is still Great myth. Now we see Bojo the bullshitter back pedalling with regard to a deal with Merkel and Macron. What it has to do with those two clowns deciding everything for 27 countries is beyond me. Merkel has virtually Bankrupt Germany and Macron is washed up anyway. Bojo will give amnesty to half a million illegal immigrants similar to what Blair did and at the same time thinks he can kick out I don't know how many tens of thousands of EU citizens who entered the UK legally. After Brexit it won't stop European criminal gangs entering and staying in the UK using bribery corruption and false passports identities etc. Nothing was thought out and the only people Brexit will not affect will be the wealthy.
Finally, the penny drops.
It's a nightmare in reality. This Brexit from the reason for having the referendum. Cameron never believing the vote would be leave and expecting the Tories to be re elected with him as leader. When he tried to show some backbone to the EU and misread everything. To the awful remain and leave campaigns. The remain was virtually non existent and the leave campaign ignored the negative aspects playing on the Britain is still Great myth. Now we see Bojo the bullshitter back pedalling with regard to a deal with Merkel and Macron. What it has to do with those two clowns deciding everything for 27 countries is beyond me. Merkel has virtually Bankrupt Germany and Macron is washed up anyway. Bojo will give amnesty to half a million illegal immigrants similar to what Blair did and at the same time thinks he can kick out I don't know how many tens of thousands of EU citizens who entered the UK legally. After Brexit it won't stop European criminal gangs entering and staying in the UK using bribery corruption and false passports identities etc. Nothing was thought out and the only people Brexit will not affect will be the wealthy. Finally, the penny drops. |
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Brexit
Aug 28, 2019 11:27:57 GMT 1
via mobile
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rebate
Junior Member
🗨️ 1,050
👍🏻 961
January 2018
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Brexit
Aug 28, 2019 11:42:16 GMT 1
Brexit, by rebate on Aug 28, 2019 11:42:16 GMT 1,
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Brexit
Aug 28, 2019 12:23:51 GMT 1
via mobile
Brexit, by Coach on Aug 28, 2019 12:23:51 GMT 1, It seems to me that a prime minister elected by 100k odd conservative members, with little or no parliamentary majority deciding to prorogue Parliament, seemingly against the will of our elected representatives is just about the most undemocratic act I’ve ever witnessed by a PM.
It seems to me that a prime minister elected by 100k odd conservative members, with little or no parliamentary majority deciding to prorogue Parliament, seemingly against the will of our elected representatives is just about the most undemocratic act I’ve ever witnessed by a PM.
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k2
New Member
🗨️ 528
👍🏻 972
November 2016
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Brexit
Aug 28, 2019 12:34:02 GMT 1
via mobile
Brexit, by k2 on Aug 28, 2019 12:34:02 GMT 1, It seems to me that a prime minister elected by 100k odd conservative members, with little or no parliamentary majority deciding to prorogue Parliament, seemingly against the will of our elected representatives is just about the most undemocratic act I’ve ever witnessed by a PM.
Agreed.
Hopefully it will put up a boot up the arse of those endlessly squabbling about how best to oppose or prevent no-deal, and we can finally get some productive opposition working towards a better outcome.
It seems to me that a prime minister elected by 100k odd conservative members, with little or no parliamentary majority deciding to prorogue Parliament, seemingly against the will of our elected representatives is just about the most undemocratic act I’ve ever witnessed by a PM. Agreed. Hopefully it will put up a boot up the arse of those endlessly squabbling about how best to oppose or prevent no-deal, and we can finally get some productive opposition working towards a better outcome. |
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Brexit
Aug 28, 2019 12:47:00 GMT 1
Brexit, by Bill Hicks on Aug 28, 2019 12:47:00 GMT 1,
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peted
New Member
🗨️ 853
👍🏻 678
April 2014
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Brexit
Aug 28, 2019 12:53:19 GMT 1
Brexit, by peted on Aug 28, 2019 12:53:19 GMT 1, And so enters a new term into the English dictionary 'Prorogue Mahone'
Slainte!
And so enters a new term into the English dictionary 'Prorogue Mahone'
Slainte!
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