Like i give a toss wot you think of me. That isnt the issue. The issue is my opinion on this thread and that some of you guys that seem to demonstrate my point everytime i make them.
As far as borin Frankie, All you know of me is wot I write here. I write about how i see the actions of some of you. U find the subject borin? Sorry for that, u contribute to the subject.

*YAWN*

Art world braced for a crash


Richard Woods

IT IS crunch time for the contemporary art boom that has made multi-millionaires out of the likes of Damien Hirst. A series of big sales next month will pose the first big test for art prices since the "credit crunch" turmoil hit the financial markets.

"We've not been in a situation like it before," said Cristina Ruiz, editor of The Art Newspaper. "Everyone is wondering whether it (the financial turmoil) will spill over into the art market."

A mix of fear and exuberance is spreading through galleries and auction houses.

After years of an extraordinary boom, "people are definitely cashing in", according to Ruiz -partly because they fear a repeat of the late 1980s and early 1990s when some art values plunged by half.

Among the sellers is Laurence Graff, a billionaire who made his fortune from diamonds. He is sending 30 works of art through the auctioneer Christie's International. He is said to have been guaranteed minimum prices for the works and believes that "it might be good timing -it won't be bad, for sure". Another seller is Marino Golinelli, an Italian multi-millionaire and philanthropist, whose collection includes works by Gilbert and George and Anish Kapoor.

One London dealer said: "Contemporary art has been the big money spinner in recent years so the sales coming up will be a major test." A New York gallery owner agreed: "Money hasn't been an issue for people for a while, but there's a real sense here and in London that we've reached a turning point."

Doom-mongers are dubbing the blitz of forthcoming London sales as "judgment week".

It will begin on October 11 with the opening of the Frieze art fair, which attracts dealers from all over the world.

The following day Sotheby's will hold a sale of 68 lots of contemporary fine art, including a Hirst painting executed in household gloss, estimated at Pounds 1.8m to Pounds 2.5m. Another Hirst, in cellulose paint on MDF, is estimated at Pounds 800,000 to Pounds 1.2m, and a picture by the graffiti artist Banksy called Rude Lord is estimated at Pounds 150,000 to Pounds 200,000.

Several works by Andy Warhol will also go under the hammer with estimates from Pounds 120,000 to Pounds 1.2m; a work by Francis Bacon is valued at Pounds 1.5m to Pounds 2m and an untitled Mark Rothko known as Blue Divided by Blue is put at Pounds 2.2m to Pounds 2.8m A day after the Sotheby's extravaganza the auctioneer Phillips de Pury will run four back-to-back sales of contemporary art from private collectors hoping to capitalise on high prices. Adding to the frenzied atmosphere, Christie's will then hold a sale of 81 works of post-war and contemporary art.

To the doubters all the signs of an overheating market are there. Sotheby's and Christie's will be putting record numbers of works up for sale. Last month For the Love of God, a diamond-encrusted skull created by Hirst, was said to have sold for Pounds 50m, although some art market sources claim the price was closer to Pounds 38m. Either way the price is seen as another sign of a market at dizzying heights.

Richard Feigen, a leading US dealer, argues that the bubble has to burst: "There will be much carnage. Speculators will be burnt. The distortions in art market values are too blatant to be sustained. But when? Who knows?"

Others are more optimistic, arguing that art markets may provide a haven when other investments such as shares and property are looking uncertain.

"There seems to be no slackening of pace yet," said one dealer. "A mid-season sale in New York this month was quite small, but it had an 80% selling rate which was good. There is an argument that at other times of financial crisis people put money into art."

Ruiz remains open-minded. "It's a very interesting situation. Even the smartest people don't have a clue what's going to happen," she said.

In the late 1980s art prices boomed when Japanese collectors bought at inflated prices with borrowed money. When the buyers defaulted on their loans the market imploded.

"The art market is all about confidence," said Ruiz. "It's very hard to find someone saying it's heading for disaster. But if one of these big sales crashes then there will be serious problems."

Is art overpriced? Have your say at www.timesonline.

Hmmmm...art is a commodity though and during times of financial turmoil many switch from stocks and put there money into gold, art...etc...

I don't think these pieces will tell us anything. They are so expensive that the only people that can afford them are the super rich to whom money is no object anyway. The credit crunch may start to affect us though as prices of art which are currently within reach may soon be out of reach, I can see the market falling slightly but see this as a correction more than anything. Hopefully I will be able to pick up a Morons for sub £600! Fingers crossed!

Just my thoughts...but what do I know...I am only an economics student!

interesting eh, slowly moving into those circles (which I can't say I'm particularly pleased about)...I like the different standpoint of the pieces...to tell you the truth I couldn't care less whether there's a crash or not...just saw these two pieces this morning so thought best to post up

from what I've heard and been reading recently, it seems that theres alot of new money coming into art from russian and asian investors.
its possible that they will either drive prices even higher, or if the european and american investors stop buying they could easily keep the market propped up for a long time to come.

At our level of buying we are constantly seeing "corrections" Banksy prices up and down, you think prices are on the way down and a signed girl with balloon hits 14k, so you think they are on the way back up again and a signed B&W Morons goes for 3.5k. All about right place, right time, cash availability and desireability!!

Shouldn't eally affect any of us cuz we aint flippers, we've got our art on the walls which is the purpose of the stuff in the first place!! Mine will be there through the 'crash' and when prices rise again as confidence returns! Bovvered!?

it's a good job we're only buying because we like the art, we'd naturally be gutted if we took an investment position and the market crashed..

Exactly, again they are currency to us IMO, swap for similar value items! If you swap a WSM for a 21CL with someone because they are both worth about £8k what difference does it make if they are both only worth £4k? End of the day they are still a WSM and a 21CL!!

Only people this will bother are the 'investors' and we don't have any of those on here!! Just genuine art collectors/lovers!!

If anyone has bought a piece for more money than they can afford and are now worrying about the new potential value, then they never bought it for the intention it was designed for and they shouldn't have bought it in the first place!!

I am first

Will flip you mine for £1k a couple of years after I have bought it for £4k!!!! Value of mine only seem to go down, not lucky enough to get one at face value at Laz!!!! (Not going there!!!)

I remember back in April having a rant about Grim Reapers being over 2k I stand by it..the prices are freaking mental and totally against what it was all meant to be about..cheaper prices bigger editions and more Banksy on my wall

I don't think anyone thinks the art world revolves around Banksy. He's just the whipping boy because his prices are THE most absurd. Up about 1,000% in 1-2 years! I've got only one Banksy print and I'm not buying any more until prices D R O P.

the prices wont drop substancially if at all..........

This was all said over a year ago and prices have only tripled since then

I wouldnt be holding my breath for a bargain!

BONGO THINK IT IS NOT GOOD TO DISCOUNT RUSSIAN MONEY - UNLIKE JAPANESE COLLECTORS OF LATE, RUSSIAN MONEY IS INVARIABLY CASH AND UNDOUBTABLY WELL ADVISED BY THOSE IN THE BUSINESS.

RUSSIANS WANT TO DISPLAY THEIR PURCHASES - OSTENTATIOUS CONSUMPTION IS A MAJOR DRIVER IN RUSSIAN ECONOMY AND PARTICULARLY WITHIN PSYCHE OF SO CALLED OLIGARCHS.

BONGO THINK THAT TO ASSUME CITY WILL HAVE BAD YEAR IS NOT CORRECT- CITY INSTITUTIONS OUTSIDE CREDIT MARKETS - AND EVEN SOME WITHIN - ARE POSTING VERY GOOD PROFITS - CREDIT CRUNCH IS NOT LOSE LOSE FOR EVERYONE - SOMEONE MAKES MONEY FROM SUCH PROBLEMS.

BONGO ALWAYS SAY BUY BECAUSE YOU LIKE AND CAN AFFORD AT THE TIME

FEW PURCHASES APPRECIATE WITH AGE - IF YOUR ART IS WORTH MORE AFTER A DECADE OF VIEWING PLEASURE, THEN THIS IS AN ADDED BONUS