thor
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Da Vinci, Salvator Mundi, by thor on May 17, 2019 4:18:58 GMT 1, No way is this a Leonardo..nowhere near enough provenance and defo not by the masters own hand..of course the global old master market wants it to be...and the Auction houses fall over themselves to associate with new xciting finds..so scruples go out the window and they will go to any length..however spurious..to attribute a name to a work that they feel looks right, and the fact there is no cast iron provenance makes it easier to sell to the willing buyer as long as the auction house is willing to put there name to it, therefore lending the work credence...its all about the Benjamins baby...
No way is this a Leonardo..nowhere near enough provenance and defo not by the masters own hand..of course the global old master market wants it to be...and the Auction houses fall over themselves to associate with new xciting finds..so scruples go out the window and they will go to any length..however spurious..to attribute a name to a work that they feel looks right, and the fact there is no cast iron provenance makes it easier to sell to the willing buyer as long as the auction house is willing to put there name to it, therefore lending the work credence...its all about the Benjamins baby...
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thor
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Da Vinci, Salvator Mundi, by thor on May 17, 2019 4:19:52 GMT 1, No way is this a Leonardo..nowhere near enough provenance and defo not by the masters own hand..of course the global old master market wants it to be...and the Auction houses fall over themselves to associate with new xciting finds..so scruples go out the window and they will go to any length..however spurious..to attribute a name to a work that they feel looks right, and the fact there is no cast iron provenance makes it easier to sell to the willing buyer as long as the auction house is willing to put there name to it, therefore lending the work credence...its all about the Benjamins baby...
No way is this a Leonardo..nowhere near enough provenance and defo not by the masters own hand..of course the global old master market wants it to be...and the Auction houses fall over themselves to associate with new xciting finds..so scruples go out the window and they will go to any length..however spurious..to attribute a name to a work that they feel looks right, and the fact there is no cast iron provenance makes it easier to sell to the willing buyer as long as the auction house is willing to put there name to it, therefore lending the work credence...its all about the Benjamins baby...
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baal
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Da Vinci, Salvator Mundi, by baal on May 18, 2019 20:53:07 GMT 1, It was a minor Saudi Prince that brought this painting and because he is close to the Abu Dhabi crown prince the painting is stopping off at their version of the Louve before going to a wall in a Saudi Palace. I think doing this will not make him a lot of friends in the Muslim world as it is haram and general very much frowned apon to have any pictures of a prophet and Jesus is seen as a prophet in Islam. Normally pictures like this would be destroyed or hidden in the palace basement....
The word I heard was that Saudi thought they were bidding against Qatar who they hate at the moment, And that's why they overpaid. The Saudi them swapped to the UAE for a 100 million dollar yacht.
It was a minor Saudi Prince that brought this painting and because he is close to the Abu Dhabi crown prince the painting is stopping off at their version of the Louve before going to a wall in a Saudi Palace. I think doing this will not make him a lot of friends in the Muslim world as it is haram and general very much frowned apon to have any pictures of a prophet and Jesus is seen as a prophet in Islam. Normally pictures like this would be destroyed or hidden in the palace basement.... The word I heard was that Saudi thought they were bidding against Qatar who they hate at the moment, And that's why they overpaid. The Saudi them swapped to the UAE for a 100 million dollar yacht.
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moron
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Da Vinci, Salvator Mundi, by moron on May 18, 2019 23:02:06 GMT 1, Salvator Money
Salvator Money
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tab1
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Da Vinci, Salvator Mundi, by tab1 on May 24, 2019 9:41:48 GMT 1, It was a minor Saudi Prince that brought this painting and because he is close to the Abu Dhabi crown prince the painting is stopping off at their version of the Louve before going to a wall in a Saudi Palace. I think doing this will not make him a lot of friends in the Muslim world as it is haram and general very much frowned apon to have any pictures of a prophet and Jesus is seen as a prophet in Islam. Normally pictures like this would be destroyed or hidden in the palace basement.... The word I heard was that Saudi thought they were bidding against Qatar who they hate at the moment, And that's why they overpaid. The Saudi them swapped to the UAE for a 100 million dollar yacht.
In good hands en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Destruction_of_early_Islamic_heritage_sites_in_Saudi_Arabia
It was a minor Saudi Prince that brought this painting and because he is close to the Abu Dhabi crown prince the painting is stopping off at their version of the Louve before going to a wall in a Saudi Palace. I think doing this will not make him a lot of friends in the Muslim world as it is haram and general very much frowned apon to have any pictures of a prophet and Jesus is seen as a prophet in Islam. Normally pictures like this would be destroyed or hidden in the palace basement.... The word I heard was that Saudi thought they were bidding against Qatar who they hate at the moment, And that's why they overpaid. The Saudi them swapped to the UAE for a 100 million dollar yacht. In good hands en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Destruction_of_early_Islamic_heritage_sites_in_Saudi_Arabia
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chevyav53
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Martin M
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Da Vinci, Salvator Mundi, by Martin M on Jun 12, 2019 0:05:55 GMT 1, Im reading a really interesting book on this picture. its called The Last Leonardo, the secret lives of the worlds most expensive painting by Ben Lewis. Im half way through, its a really great read. M
Im reading a really interesting book on this picture. its called The Last Leonardo, the secret lives of the worlds most expensive painting by Ben Lewis. Im half way through, its a really great read. M
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mose
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Da Vinci, Salvator Mundi, by mose on Apr 8, 2021 16:31:21 GMT 1, So Jerry Saltz (whoever he is) says Jerry Saltz was right; without any further supporting evidence. The guy's an idiot. He mentions Trump but doesn't seem to even realise that the whole thing preceded the Trump presidency. Saltz is many things. An idiot is not one of them. I can't stand the man, have argued with him in person and been banned from his social media feeds, but can give him his due. No dummy.
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof. The claim that this was a lost Leonardo masterpiece was never supported by extraordinary proof. Hell, it didn't even pass the 'quick look' test.
So Jerry Saltz (whoever he is) says Jerry Saltz was right; without any further supporting evidence. The guy's an idiot. He mentions Trump but doesn't seem to even realise that the whole thing preceded the Trump presidency. Saltz is many things. An idiot is not one of them. I can't stand the man, have argued with him in person and been banned from his social media feeds, but can give him his due. No dummy. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof. The claim that this was a lost Leonardo masterpiece was never supported by extraordinary proof. Hell, it didn't even pass the 'quick look' test.
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moyo
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Da Vinci, Salvator Mundi, by Rouen Cathedral on Apr 9, 2021 0:56:05 GMT 1, Saltz is def a try hard and clown BUT
He’s right any one with eyes can tell that wasn’t painted by Leonardo.
Saltz is def a try hard and clown BUT
He’s right any one with eyes can tell that wasn’t painted by Leonardo.
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Newar
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Da Vinci, Salvator Mundi, by Newar on Apr 9, 2021 4:55:56 GMT 1,
Yep Antoine Vitkine’s documentary is out next week look like the 10 last minutes are crazy Can be soon a Netflix drama Louvre C2RMF lab is maybe not wrong
Yep Antoine Vitkine’s documentary is out next week look like the 10 last minutes are crazy Can be soon a Netflix drama Louvre C2RMF lab is maybe not wrong
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pjc
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Da Vinci, Salvator Mundi, by pjc on Apr 9, 2021 19:52:13 GMT 1, So Jerry Saltz (whoever he is) says Jerry Saltz was right; without any further supporting evidence. The guy's an idiot. He mentions Trump but doesn't seem to even realise that the whole thing preceded the Trump presidency.
imho, whatever you think of him, you should know who jerry saltz is...
So Jerry Saltz (whoever he is) says Jerry Saltz was right; without any further supporting evidence. The guy's an idiot. He mentions Trump but doesn't seem to even realise that the whole thing preceded the Trump presidency. imho, whatever you think of him, you should know who jerry saltz is...
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Da Vinci, Salvator Mundi, by startimeash on Apr 14, 2021 11:21:18 GMT 1, Im reading a really interesting book on this picture. its called The Last Leonardo, the secret lives of the worlds most expensive painting by Ben Lewis. Im half way through, its a really great read. M Bought this book off the back of your recommendation. Not the sort of thing I would usually read, but have to agree, it's brilliant.
Im reading a really interesting book on this picture. its called The Last Leonardo, the secret lives of the worlds most expensive painting by Ben Lewis. Im half way through, its a really great read. M Bought this book off the back of your recommendation. Not the sort of thing I would usually read, but have to agree, it's brilliant.
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theclash
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Da Vinci, Salvator Mundi, by theclash on Apr 16, 2021 8:44:29 GMT 1, Interesting FT piece this morning on Salvator Mundi and the old masters
When the Spanish government imposed an export ban last week on a painting attributed to the “circle” of the 17th-century artist José de Ribera, it was acting on a tip-off about the work’s potential identity. “It’s Caravaggio, completely. It’s incredible. It has great power,” a London-based art dealer who spotted it told the New York Times. If so, the painting could be worth €50m or more on the open market, rather than its auction starting price of €1,500 as a quasi-Ribera. There is plenty of prestige and money to be made in identifying “autograph” works — those painted entirely by famous artists rather than made by apprentices in their workshops, or later imitations of their style. A global industry, including the leading auction houses Christie’s and Sotheby’s, is devoted to authenticating and selling works of art, but no one can honestly be sure of the status of an old master. Debate still rumbles over whether “Salvator Mundi”, which sold for $450m in 2017, is wholly the work of Leonardo da Vinci. Christie’s gave “Salvator Mundi” its full imprimatur at the time, hailing it as “the greatest artistic rediscovery of the last 100 years” as it was acquired by Mohammed bin Salman, crown prince of Saudi Arabia. So it is decidedly awkward that a film released this week claims that experts who examined it for the Louvre concluded that Leonardo “only contributed” to the work. “About suffering they were never wrong,/The Old Masters,” wrote WH Auden in his poem Musée des Beaux Arts. But we are often wrong about the old masters themselves. An auction house has a financial incentive to certify a painting as the sole work of a famous artist because the price will rise and there will be more prestige in selling it, but the reality is usually messier. In theory, the origins and authorship of a painting should make no difference to the experience of viewing it: the object remains the same, no matter how it is described. The so-called Vermeers painted by Han van Meegeren, the notorious Dutch art forger, did not change form when he confessed to his captors in 1945 to having faked them. In reality, the pleasure we gain from a painting is deeply bound up with what the art philosopher Denis Dutton called its “expressive authenticity”. Knowing — or believing we know — who painted it, what the artist meant, when and where it was done and who has owned it, is part of the experience.
People who participated in one German psychology study responded quite differently to identical images, depending on whether they were told they were original works of art or copies. The images included Leonardo’s “Portrait of an Unknown Woman”, which is in the Louvre, and what was called a copy of the work painted by an apprentice under his supervision. If they believed it was produced by Leonardo, they were more likely to agree with statements such as “this artwork is more extraordinary than [others] I have seen before” and “[it] is triggering a pleasant emotion for me”. A portrait’s provenance stirs the soul, even if it is an illusion. Deciding whether a painting is the work of an old master or one of their followers is a matter of judgment. It can be scanned and X-rayed to identify all the materials and rule out crude forgery or copying. “Salvator Mundi” was painted on the kind of walnut panel used by Leonardo elsewhere and characteristically has powdered glass in its paint. But a lot still rests on the expert’s “eye”. Martin Kemp, a distinguished art historian, authenticated “Salvator Mundi” as a full-blown work by Leonardo partly because of the way Christ’s hair is painted in a vortex. Similarly, the judge in a 2015 UK court case over whether Sotheby’s was justified in deciding that a painting was not a Caravaggio ruled that “the feather in the painting has a shininess that is inappropriate”. This underlies the complex code for degrees of authenticity, from an autograph work to one “attributed to” an artist, by a studio or a “circle”, by a “follower”, or in the “manner of”. Paintings can shift categories depending on the latest opinion or scan, with their owners pressing for promotion. One obvious problem is that provenance is always uncertain. Despite the claims made in the film, the Louvre confirmed the attribution of “Salvator Mundi” to Leonardo in an unpublished booklet. A deeper problem is that the entire edifice of definitions is suspect for Renaissance painters because it does not reflect how they worked. Many scholars agree that most paintings of the period were collective efforts. They were created not by what Michelle O’Malley, a professor at the Warburg Institute in London, calls a “heroic, genius artist” but in workshops led by them. The idea of the individual old master emerged in the 18th century, at the same time as auction houses. The inconvenient truth is that there is no clear answer as to whether or not a work is by Leonardo, even if fortunes rest on there being one. Not only is it an opinion, but the question itself may not even make sense. Reflect on that, next time you are in the Louvre
Interesting FT piece this morning on Salvator Mundi and the old masters
When the Spanish government imposed an export ban last week on a painting attributed to the “circle” of the 17th-century artist José de Ribera, it was acting on a tip-off about the work’s potential identity. “It’s Caravaggio, completely. It’s incredible. It has great power,” a London-based art dealer who spotted it told the New York Times. If so, the painting could be worth €50m or more on the open market, rather than its auction starting price of €1,500 as a quasi-Ribera. There is plenty of prestige and money to be made in identifying “autograph” works — those painted entirely by famous artists rather than made by apprentices in their workshops, or later imitations of their style. A global industry, including the leading auction houses Christie’s and Sotheby’s, is devoted to authenticating and selling works of art, but no one can honestly be sure of the status of an old master. Debate still rumbles over whether “Salvator Mundi”, which sold for $450m in 2017, is wholly the work of Leonardo da Vinci. Christie’s gave “Salvator Mundi” its full imprimatur at the time, hailing it as “the greatest artistic rediscovery of the last 100 years” as it was acquired by Mohammed bin Salman, crown prince of Saudi Arabia. So it is decidedly awkward that a film released this week claims that experts who examined it for the Louvre concluded that Leonardo “only contributed” to the work. “About suffering they were never wrong,/The Old Masters,” wrote WH Auden in his poem Musée des Beaux Arts. But we are often wrong about the old masters themselves. An auction house has a financial incentive to certify a painting as the sole work of a famous artist because the price will rise and there will be more prestige in selling it, but the reality is usually messier. In theory, the origins and authorship of a painting should make no difference to the experience of viewing it: the object remains the same, no matter how it is described. The so-called Vermeers painted by Han van Meegeren, the notorious Dutch art forger, did not change form when he confessed to his captors in 1945 to having faked them. In reality, the pleasure we gain from a painting is deeply bound up with what the art philosopher Denis Dutton called its “expressive authenticity”. Knowing — or believing we know — who painted it, what the artist meant, when and where it was done and who has owned it, is part of the experience.
People who participated in one German psychology study responded quite differently to identical images, depending on whether they were told they were original works of art or copies. The images included Leonardo’s “Portrait of an Unknown Woman”, which is in the Louvre, and what was called a copy of the work painted by an apprentice under his supervision. If they believed it was produced by Leonardo, they were more likely to agree with statements such as “this artwork is more extraordinary than [others] I have seen before” and “[it] is triggering a pleasant emotion for me”. A portrait’s provenance stirs the soul, even if it is an illusion. Deciding whether a painting is the work of an old master or one of their followers is a matter of judgment. It can be scanned and X-rayed to identify all the materials and rule out crude forgery or copying. “Salvator Mundi” was painted on the kind of walnut panel used by Leonardo elsewhere and characteristically has powdered glass in its paint. But a lot still rests on the expert’s “eye”. Martin Kemp, a distinguished art historian, authenticated “Salvator Mundi” as a full-blown work by Leonardo partly because of the way Christ’s hair is painted in a vortex. Similarly, the judge in a 2015 UK court case over whether Sotheby’s was justified in deciding that a painting was not a Caravaggio ruled that “the feather in the painting has a shininess that is inappropriate”. This underlies the complex code for degrees of authenticity, from an autograph work to one “attributed to” an artist, by a studio or a “circle”, by a “follower”, or in the “manner of”. Paintings can shift categories depending on the latest opinion or scan, with their owners pressing for promotion. One obvious problem is that provenance is always uncertain. Despite the claims made in the film, the Louvre confirmed the attribution of “Salvator Mundi” to Leonardo in an unpublished booklet. A deeper problem is that the entire edifice of definitions is suspect for Renaissance painters because it does not reflect how they worked. Many scholars agree that most paintings of the period were collective efforts. They were created not by what Michelle O’Malley, a professor at the Warburg Institute in London, calls a “heroic, genius artist” but in workshops led by them. The idea of the individual old master emerged in the 18th century, at the same time as auction houses. The inconvenient truth is that there is no clear answer as to whether or not a work is by Leonardo, even if fortunes rest on there being one. Not only is it an opinion, but the question itself may not even make sense. Reflect on that, next time you are in the Louvre
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Lazarus II
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Da Vinci, Salvator Mundi, by Lazarus II on Apr 16, 2021 8:48:21 GMT 1, Fook me, i thought Rufio had spread his wings to other threads😊
Fook me, i thought Rufio had spread his wings to other threads😊
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theclash
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Da Vinci, Salvator Mundi, by theclash on Apr 16, 2021 9:05:37 GMT 1, Fook me, i thought Rufio had spread his wings to other threads😊
Not me my man, it’s paywalled so link not much use.
Fook me, i thought Rufio had spread his wings to other threads😊 Not me my man, it’s paywalled so link not much use.
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theclash
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Da Vinci, Salvator Mundi, by theclash on Apr 16, 2021 9:14:03 GMT 1, Fook me, i thought Rufio had spread his wings to other threads😊 Not me my man, it’s paywalled so link not much use.
Although it would be next level to try the strategy on Da Vinci. I have blocked the guy so no idea if he is still at it
Fook me, i thought Rufio had spread his wings to other threads😊 Not me my man, it’s paywalled so link not much use. Although it would be next level to try the strategy on Da Vinci. I have blocked the guy so no idea if he is still at it
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