sfnyc
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Boycott Over The Influence Gallery?, by sfnyc on Nov 25, 2019 21:46:33 GMT 1, So this is a quick background and argument - but would love to hear other's perspectives and experiences.
Shady background:
Over The Influence is a gallery that was launched in Hong Kong and Los Angeles by a very wealthy investor from France (inherited fortune) who is doing everything he can (literally) to hide his identity while at the same time manipulating the urban arts market for the interests of the ultra wealthy (even blog posts get deleted: medium.com/art-of-art/the-biggest-kaws-collectors-you-dont-know-7994dcfdf0d9 ). Despite trying to hide as much information as possible about who they are and their operations, bits and pieces of the puzzle are coming out little by little.
Through his personal collection and his wealth, he (I m kinda afraid of using his name and finding myself under private investigation and harassed...) initially acquired works from all major urban artists (Banksy, Invader, Kaws, Vhils, etc.. ) and developed relationships through his Bibo restaurant and more recently via OTI gallery, which he staffed with young kids with no knowledge of street art that say yes to all his commands.
Market Manipulation:
Since founding OTI, he has particularly focused on manipulating Kaws and Invader's market. They first notably manipulated the auction results to help bring Invader over the 6 figures mark, and recently appears to have manipulated auctions again to bring it over 7 figures. Their success with Invader has given them credibility and attracted many other artists such as Shepard Fairey, Cleon Peterson, Mike Lee etc...
Corrupting Street Art:
Recently, Tristan Eaton posted about his disastrous experience with OTI on instagram (after Cleon Peterson - the money obsessed artists - requested OTI to cancel Tristan's release because it's too street art-ish see http://instagram.com/p/B5GgIuQBtTZ ).
In the massive comments generated by that revealing post, Jerkface added in the comments the following gem: that he also was in discussion with OTI and they told him to stop painting walls to be less street and more polished for the ultra high net worth markets they can bring him to.
The Big Picture:
So it smells like OTI is the product of ultra rich collectors attempting to corner key artists from the street art scene. That's not kosher but well, every big collector kinda does it (Mugrabi with Warhol, Nahmad with Picasso, etc...)
What really pisses me off is their attempt to use their money to corrupt and turn around street art for the ultra rich, telling artist to "stop the street stuff" to look more fine artsy... totally corrupting the essence of street art. In essence, a very wealthy dude tries to corner and manipulate the art market while killing off the growth of street art for profit.
So I decided I will boycott OTI, no longer attending their shows or buying any works from them. Potentially considering boycotting all artists represented by OTI as well, if they are aware that they are selling out (looking at you Cleon Peterson).
Anyone got more perspective to share about OTI and especially its founder, please share!
So this is a quick background and argument - but would love to hear other's perspectives and experiences. Shady background:Over The Influence is a gallery that was launched in Hong Kong and Los Angeles by a very wealthy investor from France (inherited fortune) who is doing everything he can (literally) to hide his identity while at the same time manipulating the urban arts market for the interests of the ultra wealthy (even blog posts get deleted: medium.com/art-of-art/the-biggest-kaws-collectors-you-dont-know-7994dcfdf0d9 ). Despite trying to hide as much information as possible about who they are and their operations, bits and pieces of the puzzle are coming out little by little. Through his personal collection and his wealth, he (I m kinda afraid of using his name and finding myself under private investigation and harassed...) initially acquired works from all major urban artists (Banksy, Invader, Kaws, Vhils, etc.. ) and developed relationships through his Bibo restaurant and more recently via OTI gallery, which he staffed with young kids with no knowledge of street art that say yes to all his commands. Market Manipulation:Since founding OTI, he has particularly focused on manipulating Kaws and Invader's market. They first notably manipulated the auction results to help bring Invader over the 6 figures mark, and recently appears to have manipulated auctions again to bring it over 7 figures. Their success with Invader has given them credibility and attracted many other artists such as Shepard Fairey, Cleon Peterson, Mike Lee etc... Corrupting Street Art:Recently, Tristan Eaton posted about his disastrous experience with OTI on instagram (after Cleon Peterson - the money obsessed artists - requested OTI to cancel Tristan's release because it's too street art-ish see http://instagram.com/p/B5GgIuQBtTZ ). In the massive comments generated by that revealing post, Jerkface added in the comments the following gem: that he also was in discussion with OTI and they told him to stop painting walls to be less street and more polished for the ultra high net worth markets they can bring him to. The Big Picture:So it smells like OTI is the product of ultra rich collectors attempting to corner key artists from the street art scene. That's not kosher but well, every big collector kinda does it (Mugrabi with Warhol, Nahmad with Picasso, etc...) What really pisses me off is their attempt to use their money to corrupt and turn around street art for the ultra rich, telling artist to "stop the street stuff" to look more fine artsy... totally corrupting the essence of street art. In essence, a very wealthy dude tries to corner and manipulate the art market while killing off the growth of street art for profit. So I decided I will boycott OTI, no longer attending their shows or buying any works from them. Potentially considering boycotting all artists represented by OTI as well, if they are aware that they are selling out (looking at you Cleon Peterson). Anyone got more perspective to share about OTI and especially its founder, please share! |
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tab1
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Boycott Over The Influence Gallery?, by tab1 on Nov 25, 2019 21:59:35 GMT 1, If targeting the ultra rich as you say the average person here is not going to effect their bussiness module
Market manipulation in gallerys : dealers has been going on for centuries , nothing new here and not much to stop it
Unless all auction houses stop playing a part too
If targeting the ultra rich as you say the average person here is not going to effect their bussiness module
Market manipulation in gallerys : dealers has been going on for centuries , nothing new here and not much to stop it
Unless all auction houses stop playing a part too
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Boycott Over The Influence Gallery?, by Eton Groover on Nov 25, 2019 22:42:47 GMT 1, I think you need to find some more important things to care passionately about.
There’s plenty of choice out there
I think you need to find some more important things to care passionately about.
There’s plenty of choice out there
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Inknart
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Boycott Over The Influence Gallery?, by Inknart on Nov 25, 2019 22:47:03 GMT 1, It's crappy, and most people know that he is doing it. With that being said, when you have other high end artists under your umbrella, they can use that credibility to control aspects of that business for better or worse because they're in higher demand.
It's crappy, and most people know that he is doing it. With that being said, when you have other high end artists under your umbrella, they can use that credibility to control aspects of that business for better or worse because they're in higher demand.
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Guy Denning
Artist
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Boycott Over The Influence Gallery?, by Guy Denning on Nov 25, 2019 22:48:50 GMT 1, There was graffiti before galleries took any interest (or before galleries were even a thing) and there'll be graffiti long after the galleries are extinctasaurus.
There was graffiti before galleries took any interest (or before galleries were even a thing) and there'll be graffiti long after the galleries are extinctasaurus.
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sfnyc
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Boycott Over The Influence Gallery?, by sfnyc on Nov 25, 2019 22:54:20 GMT 1, Again most people here are aware of them manipulating the market, my bigger issue is with them trying to kill and corrupt street art, telling artists to leave the street art scene and replicate Kaws' approach of exclusivity and branding - all purely for money.
Again most people here are aware of them manipulating the market, my bigger issue is with them trying to kill and corrupt street art, telling artists to leave the street art scene and replicate Kaws' approach of exclusivity and branding - all purely for money.
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drip
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Boycott Over The Influence Gallery?, by drip on Nov 25, 2019 22:59:59 GMT 1, Money has a long history of doing stuff like this. It sees something real, something colourful, bohemian, and it goes 'I WANT THAT!' and it buys it, but it's a little bit dirty, so it polishes it, then polishes it a bit more, then polishes it again, then rebrands it, and packages it, and sells it to all its friends, on and on until it kills anything real that it admired and wanted in the first place.
Money has a long history of doing stuff like this. It sees something real, something colourful, bohemian, and it goes 'I WANT THAT!' and it buys it, but it's a little bit dirty, so it polishes it, then polishes it a bit more, then polishes it again, then rebrands it, and packages it, and sells it to all its friends, on and on until it kills anything real that it admired and wanted in the first place.
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Boycott Over The Influence Gallery?, by fasttwitch on Nov 25, 2019 23:04:16 GMT 1, I think this post is interesting, Tristan was discrete in his post so I didn't know who the artist was that did that to him.
They may pretend that they don't want to be rich and famous but many artists do actually want to be rich and famous...OTI is trying to make this happen for them while making themselves richer.
Not thinking it's right but it is how the world works...the guys on the inside get rich.
I think this post is interesting, Tristan was discrete in his post so I didn't know who the artist was that did that to him.
They may pretend that they don't want to be rich and famous but many artists do actually want to be rich and famous...OTI is trying to make this happen for them while making themselves richer.
Not thinking it's right but it is how the world works...the guys on the inside get rich.
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Inknart
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Boycott Over The Influence Gallery?, by Inknart on Nov 25, 2019 23:07:05 GMT 1, I think this post is interesting, Tristan was discrete in his post so I didn't know who the artist was that did that to him. They may pretend that they don't want to be rich and famous but many artists do actually want to be rich and famous...OTI is trying to make this happen for them while making themselves richer. Not thinking it's right but it is how the world works...the guys on the inside get rich.
I think this post is interesting, Tristan was discrete in his post so I didn't know who the artist was that did that to him. They may pretend that they don't want to be rich and famous but many artists do actually want to be rich and famous...OTI is trying to make this happen for them while making themselves richer. Not thinking it's right but it is how the world works...the guys on the inside get rich. His post literally has a picture of a message to Cleon Peterson... |
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Boycott Over The Influence Gallery?, by fasttwitch on Nov 25, 2019 23:14:03 GMT 1, nice, I couldn't tell from the little picture who it was, he blocked out the name
nice, I couldn't tell from the little picture who it was, he blocked out the name
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Boycott Over The Influence Gallery?, by seamusdorey on Nov 25, 2019 23:17:18 GMT 1, Indeed. Also there are plenty of comments naming him.
Its a brilliant response from Tristan.
I think this post is interesting, Tristan was discrete in his post so I didn't know who the artist was that did that to him. They may pretend that they don't want to be rich and famous but many artists do actually want to be rich and famous...OTI is trying to make this happen for them while making themselves richer. Not thinking it's right but it is how the world works...the guys on the inside get rich. His post literally has a picture of a message to Cleon Peterson...
Indeed. Also there are plenty of comments naming him. Its a brilliant response from Tristan. I think this post is interesting, Tristan was discrete in his post so I didn't know who the artist was that did that to him. They may pretend that they don't want to be rich and famous but many artists do actually want to be rich and famous...OTI is trying to make this happen for them while making themselves richer. Not thinking it's right but it is how the world works...the guys on the inside get rich. His post literally has a picture of a message to Cleon Peterson... |
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cnrdvln
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Boycott Over The Influence Gallery?, by cnrdvln on Nov 25, 2019 23:20:03 GMT 1, is there another link to that medium article? it's a 404 now
is there another link to that medium article? it's a 404 now
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drip
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Boycott Over The Influence Gallery?, by drip on Nov 25, 2019 23:24:08 GMT 1,
"...just trying to get away from the street art thing"
*gets into the sea art thing. Does a boat*
"...just trying to get away from the street art thing" *gets into the sea art thing. Does a boat* |
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Boycott Over The Influence Gallery?, by JL Broooks on Nov 25, 2019 23:48:38 GMT 1, Thank you for the post - was not aware of this (the Tristan bs Cleon beef). Interesting to read the comments on that post.
Thank you for the post - was not aware of this (the Tristan bs Cleon beef). Interesting to read the comments on that post.
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Pawel
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Boycott Over The Influence Gallery?, by Pawel on Nov 26, 2019 0:07:04 GMT 1, Apparently the gallery apologized and acknowledged it was wrong. Which to be honestly makes it even more confusing.
Apparently the gallery apologized and acknowledged it was wrong. Which to be honestly makes it even more confusing.
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iamzero
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Boycott Over The Influence Gallery?, by iamzero on Nov 26, 2019 0:10:54 GMT 1, Sounds like a pretty shitty thing to do. What an arsehole.
Sounds like a pretty shitty thing to do. What an arsehole.
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pellets
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Boycott Over The Influence Gallery?, by pellets on Nov 26, 2019 0:23:24 GMT 1, Wonder what Cleon’s response will be, if any
Wonder what Cleon’s response will be, if any
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Inknart
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Boycott Over The Influence Gallery?, by Inknart on Nov 26, 2019 0:27:28 GMT 1, Apparently the gallery apologized and acknowledged it was wrong. Which to be honestly makes it even more confusing.
Only reason they would apologize is because it could hurt their reputation and impact profits. They wouldn't be sorry if they didn't get caught.
I doubt they grew a conscious over night and regretted being assholes.
Doing something like that is pretty black and white when it comes to right vs wrong.
Not to mention hypocritical, when they're literally inflating Invader prices who I would consider street art.
Apparently the gallery apologized and acknowledged it was wrong. Which to be honestly makes it even more confusing. Only reason they would apologize is because it could hurt their reputation and impact profits. They wouldn't be sorry if they didn't get caught. I doubt they grew a conscious over night and regretted being assholes. Doing something like that is pretty black and white when it comes to right vs wrong. Not to mention hypocritical, when they're literally inflating Invader prices who I would consider street art. |
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sleepyl
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Boycott Over The Influence Gallery?, by sleepyl on Nov 26, 2019 0:46:47 GMT 1, Why would you only boycott OTI and not both?
Thanks for the info anyway. It's great to see other galleries and artists' support.
Why would you only boycott OTI and not both?
Thanks for the info anyway. It's great to see other galleries and artists' support.
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stavi
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Boycott Over The Influence Gallery?, by stavi on Nov 26, 2019 9:48:58 GMT 1, Sounds like a typical gallery to me, no?
What they did wrong was pulling the print mid sale.
But it is nice to talk about this sort of stuff and peak behind the curtains.
And to play devil's advocate, i do see what cleon could be talking about with Tristan's print having that big cartoon wolf. Maybe saying that he wanted to get away from "street art" was a polite way to say he didnt want to be associated with a print/art he considered bad.
Also what's this other beef between jerkface and Tristan?
Does anyone know what was said?
Sounds like a typical gallery to me, no? What they did wrong was pulling the print mid sale. But it is nice to talk about this sort of stuff and peak behind the curtains. And to play devil's advocate, i do see what cleon could be talking about with Tristan's print having that big cartoon wolf. Maybe saying that he wanted to get away from "street art" was a polite way to say he didnt want to be associated with a print/art he considered bad. Also what's this other beef between jerkface and Tristan? Does anyone know what was said? |
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Newar
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Boycott Over The Influence Gallery?, by Newar on Nov 26, 2019 10:04:07 GMT 1, streetart enter to art buisness  look at gagosian / perrotin / pace today and rosenberg last centurie nothing new welcome capitalism
Besides for wealthy people it's the best way to hide money (no taxe / and hosting all in free port like in luxemburg (the biggest in the world).
streetart enter to art buisness look at gagosian / perrotin / pace today and rosenberg last centurie nothing new welcome capitalism Besides for wealthy people it's the best way to hide money (no taxe / and hosting all in free port like in luxemburg (the biggest in the world). |
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Boycott Over The Influence Gallery?, by seamusdorey on Nov 26, 2019 11:14:25 GMT 1, Makes you wonder why Invader et al continue their affiliation with the gallery.
Apparently the gallery apologized and acknowledged it was wrong. Which to be honestly makes it even more confusing. Only reason they would apologize is because it could hurt their reputation and impact profits. They wouldn't be sorry if they didn't get caught. I doubt they grew a conscious over night and regretted being assholes. Doing something like that is pretty black and white when it comes to right vs wrong. Not to mention hypocritical, when they're literally inflating Invader prices who I would consider street art.
Makes you wonder why Invader et al continue their affiliation with the gallery. Apparently the gallery apologized and acknowledged it was wrong. Which to be honestly makes it even more confusing. Only reason they would apologize is because it could hurt their reputation and impact profits. They wouldn't be sorry if they didn't get caught. I doubt they grew a conscious over night and regretted being assholes. Doing something like that is pretty black and white when it comes to right vs wrong. Not to mention hypocritical, when they're literally inflating Invader prices who I would consider street art. |
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Boycott Over The Influence Gallery?, by Happy Shopper on Nov 26, 2019 11:14:56 GMT 1, I think it's now super clear (rabbit  ) who manipulated the Invader market a while back.
We all discussed it being suspicious, and guessed at what was going on... but I think we now know.
Apparently it was the same OTI owner's Kaws collection mostly used for the big Kaws show in Hong Kong a few months ago, and him that also bought the "record breaking" Sargent Peppers canvas, while the show was on. Hype, hype, hype...
(If this is all true!?)
I think it's now super clear (rabbit ) who manipulated the Invader market a while back. We all discussed it being suspicious, and guessed at what was going on... but I think we now know. Apparently it was the same OTI owner's Kaws collection mostly used for the big Kaws show in Hong Kong a few months ago, and him that also bought the "record breaking" Sargent Peppers canvas, while the show was on. Hype, hype, hype... (If this is all true!?) |
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Boycott Over The Influence Gallery?, by seamusdorey on Nov 26, 2019 11:16:57 GMT 1, Allegedly 😂😂😂
I think it's now super clear (rabbit ) who manipulated the Invader market a while back. We all discussed it being suspicious, and guessed at what was going on... but I think we now know. Apparently it was the same OTI owner's Kaws collection mostly used for the big Kaws show in Hong Kong a few months ago, and him that also bought the "record breaking" Sargent Peppers canvas, while the show was on. Hype, hype, hype... (If this is all true!?)
Allegedly 😂😂😂 I think it's now super clear (rabbit ) who manipulated the Invader market a while back. We all discussed it being suspicious, and guessed at what was going on... but I think we now know. Apparently it was the same OTI owner's Kaws collection mostly used for the big Kaws show in Hong Kong a few months ago, and him that also bought the "record breaking" Sargent Peppers canvas, while the show was on. Hype, hype, hype... (If this is all true!?) |
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Jaylove
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Boycott Over The Influence Gallery?, by Jaylove on Nov 26, 2019 12:15:38 GMT 1, So basically what I had always said. Too much money involved not to be manipulated.
So basically what I had always said. Too much money involved not to be manipulated.
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Boycott Over The Influence Gallery?, by Express Post on Nov 26, 2019 13:30:00 GMT 1, Label at NGV said the owner of the kaws album was from the US of A.
Allegedly 😂😂😂 I think it's now super clear (rabbit ) who manipulated the Invader market a while back. We all discussed it being suspicious, and guessed at what was going on... but I think we now know. Apparently it was the same OTI owner's Kaws collection mostly used for the big Kaws show in Hong Kong a few months ago, and him that also bought the "record breaking" Sargent Peppers canvas, while the show was on. Hype, hype, hype... (If this is all true!?)
Label at NGV said the owner of the kaws album was from the US of A. Allegedly 😂😂😂 I think it's now super clear (rabbit ) who manipulated the Invader market a while back. We all discussed it being suspicious, and guessed at what was going on... but I think we now know. Apparently it was the same OTI owner's Kaws collection mostly used for the big Kaws show in Hong Kong a few months ago, and him that also bought the "record breaking" Sargent Peppers canvas, while the show was on. Hype, hype, hype... (If this is all true!?) |
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Boycott Over The Influence Gallery?, by Happy Shopper on Nov 26, 2019 13:33:41 GMT 1, Label at NGV said the owner of the kaws album was from the US of A.
Might be a US citizen, but still same person. OTI and Garey the Third all seem to be based in US.
Label at NGV said the owner of the kaws album was from the US of A. Might be a US citizen, but still same person. OTI and Garey the Third all seem to be based in US. |
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Boycott Over The Influence Gallery?, by ransacked99 on Nov 26, 2019 14:37:37 GMT 1, Sounds like a typical gallery to me, no? What they did wrong was pulling the print mid sale. But it is nice to talk about this sort of stuff and peak behind the curtains. And to play devil's advocate, i do see what cleon could be talking about with Tristan's print having that big cartoon wolf. Maybe saying that he wanted to get away from "street art" was a polite way to say he didnt want to be associated with a print/art he considered bad. Also what's this other beef between jerkface and Tristan? Does anyone know what was said?
jerkface is one to talk. It's common knowledge by every collector that every print that was going up on auctions was being bought out by OTI and Tag to corner the market. Could barely get over cost on a lot of newer stuff. Going to be fun when jerkface originals are up at an auction house. Let me know when he gets to his $35k or whatever he was recently asking. Without these two backing him now, want to say his pieces are worth 1/8 of that price. Very noble of him to stay true to the street art scene with those prices. Sorry to say if he doesn't want to play the game, good luck to him and the others.
Sounds like a typical gallery to me, no? What they did wrong was pulling the print mid sale. But it is nice to talk about this sort of stuff and peak behind the curtains. And to play devil's advocate, i do see what cleon could be talking about with Tristan's print having that big cartoon wolf. Maybe saying that he wanted to get away from "street art" was a polite way to say he didnt want to be associated with a print/art he considered bad. Also what's this other beef between jerkface and Tristan? Does anyone know what was said? jerkface is one to talk. It's common knowledge by every collector that every print that was going up on auctions was being bought out by OTI and Tag to corner the market. Could barely get over cost on a lot of newer stuff. Going to be fun when jerkface originals are up at an auction house. Let me know when he gets to his $35k or whatever he was recently asking. Without these two backing him now, want to say his pieces are worth 1/8 of that price. Very noble of him to stay true to the street art scene with those prices. Sorry to say if he doesn't want to play the game, good luck to him and the others. |
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Matt
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Boycott Over The Influence Gallery?, by Matt on Nov 26, 2019 15:48:44 GMT 1, I would certainly not say that OTI is above price manipulation…
…but, there is a flaw in the theory that they orchestrated the Invader hike in 2017.
In 2017 it's the invader print market that went through the roof. OG’s stayed comparably stable and cheap, to the extent early collectors could sell2-3 prints at 20x release to buy an Alias.
OTI mostly doesn’t do prints or low end stuff, only high end / originals, so it is not likely they were holding / buying the print stock.
In fact most Invader prints and kits were being gobbled up by a US gallery that is named after pasta.
It seems to me that the OTI MO is the classic holding a controlling stock of an artist’s originals (Kaws, Invader), drip feeding to auction and buying for huge sums.
Not really what happened with Invader prints in 2017…
I would certainly not say that OTI is above price manipulation…
…but, there is a flaw in the theory that they orchestrated the Invader hike in 2017.
In 2017 it's the invader print market that went through the roof. OG’s stayed comparably stable and cheap, to the extent early collectors could sell2-3 prints at 20x release to buy an Alias.
OTI mostly doesn’t do prints or low end stuff, only high end / originals, so it is not likely they were holding / buying the print stock.
In fact most Invader prints and kits were being gobbled up by a US gallery that is named after pasta.
It seems to me that the OTI MO is the classic holding a controlling stock of an artist’s originals (Kaws, Invader), drip feeding to auction and buying for huge sums.
Not really what happened with Invader prints in 2017…
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mrred11
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Boycott Over The Influence Gallery?, by mrred11 on Nov 26, 2019 15:59:11 GMT 1, I feel like Jerkface print prices should be like Tristan prices. That would be noble of him.
I feel like Jerkface print prices should be like Tristan prices. That would be noble of him.
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look at gagosian / perrotin / pace today and rosenberg last centurie nothing new welcome capitalism 
) who manipulated the Invader market a while back.
