Deleted
Posts โข 0
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January 1970
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Banksy Prices Up or Down?, by Deleted on Dec 12, 2014 18:52:03 GMT 1, ^^^, mere facts, I deal only in rumours and / or speculation.
I am a good boy, I do as I am told lol.
^^^, mere facts, I deal only in rumours and / or speculation.
I am a good boy, I do as I am told lol.
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Black Apple Art
Art Gallery
Junior Member
Posts โข 2,007
Likes โข 3,970
September 2013
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Banksy Prices Up or Down?, by Black Apple Art on Dec 12, 2014 21:22:55 GMT 1, Great article and one hell of a GWB piece! Also never said I wanted him to make the main show as I too feel it's the show with the least amount of energy and interest for me and always has been. For me it's just curiosity. thx for the article
Great article and one hell of a GWB piece! Also never said I wanted him to make the main show as I too feel it's the show with the least amount of energy and interest for me and always has been. For me it's just curiosity. thx for the article
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Deleted
Posts โข 0
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January 1970
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Banksy Prices Up or Down?, by Deleted on Dec 12, 2014 23:56:40 GMT 1, I've been wondering for sometime now how long can the Banksy hype keep up these insane prices? I've often thought the unsigned prices would start to catch up with the signed and now they are starting to. At the moment you have more choices when buying a singed Banksy than unsigned. So obviously the market is dictated by how many buyers are out there and it seems there are no shortages for the lower end, but there must be a braking point. If you look at other artists like M C Escher who's signed prints can go for massive money (nearly all of his work) and Picasso who's work you can buy relatively cheap in comparison where dose this leave Banksy an artist who isn't dead and could do anything at any time? I'm not making an art comparison more of a market comparison. It seems the media grabs an artist every decade or so and hypes the living hell out of them. So do you think we're due another icon soon? Will this happen when the Banksy prices get to high? It's just what I've been thinking lately so should I sell some of my Banksy collection? To answer your primary question "BANKSY HYPE WILL IT EVER END?" - No, it has just begun. To answer your secondary question "So do you think we're due another icon soon?" - They are out there already! To answer your tertiary question "Will this happen when the Banksy prices get to high?" - It is happening already. To answer your quaternary question "Should I sell some of my Banksy collection?" - You should sell your art if you you stopped enjoying it. Sell it to someone who is going to frame and enjoy it. Unless you bought it as an investment and look at it as an investment and stored it as an investment. In that case treat it like an investment and sell high and buy low.
Unless you have a signed black and white Trolley Hunters print in your collection, in that case i would suggest getting in touch with me asap.
Cheers mate!
I've been wondering for sometime now how long can the Banksy hype keep up these insane prices? I've often thought the unsigned prices would start to catch up with the signed and now they are starting to. At the moment you have more choices when buying a singed Banksy than unsigned. So obviously the market is dictated by how many buyers are out there and it seems there are no shortages for the lower end, but there must be a braking point. If you look at other artists like M C Escher who's signed prints can go for massive money (nearly all of his work) and Picasso who's work you can buy relatively cheap in comparison where dose this leave Banksy an artist who isn't dead and could do anything at any time? I'm not making an art comparison more of a market comparison. It seems the media grabs an artist every decade or so and hypes the living hell out of them. So do you think we're due another icon soon? Will this happen when the Banksy prices get to high? It's just what I've been thinking lately so should I sell some of my Banksy collection? To answer your primary question "BANKSY HYPE WILL IT EVER END?" - No, it has just begun. To answer your secondary question "So do you think we're due another icon soon?" - They are out there already! To answer your tertiary question "Will this happen when the Banksy prices get to high?" - It is happening already. To answer your quaternary question "Should I sell some of my Banksy collection?" - You should sell your art if you you stopped enjoying it. Sell it to someone who is going to frame and enjoy it. Unless you bought it as an investment and look at it as an investment and stored it as an investment. In that case treat it like an investment and sell high and buy low. Unless you have a signed black and white Trolley Hunters print in your collection, in that case i would suggest getting in touch with me asap. Cheers mate!
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Cornish Crayon
Junior Member
Posts โข 3,965
Likes โข 2,902
December 2007
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Banksy Prices Up or Down?, by Cornish Crayon on Dec 14, 2014 10:11:51 GMT 1, Avoided thread till now, started reading couple of bits......... None the wiser lol
Avoided thread till now, started reading couple of bits......... None the wiser lol
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Banksy Prices Up or Down?, by Jeezuz Jones Snr on Dec 14, 2014 10:33:29 GMT 1, 1. No. 2. Stored / Gifted / No he is not. So I believe. Agree with #1 in that most of these are very old (the barcode canvas is dated '02 and my finger to the wind guess is that monkey is '03 at the latest and perhaps earlier). ย As for #2 with originals from the Bristol museum; it was fairly common knowledge even back at the show in '09 that there was a preview the night before the public opening where much of the work was offered and sold. ย '09 was not exactly the best year (almost certainly the worst since '91) to be selling art so some of those works lingered longer than any would today but I suspect most of that show was sold within the year to follow. ย As far as drip feeding Bristol museum works to auction, I'd be hard pressed to even think of handful of the 80 something works from that show to ever hit the auction block. ย I remember Go Flock Yourself going under the hammer in Greece and I think that was the first. ย Within the past year, there was the large Happy Shopper sculpture which did very well as did the Rembrandt with googly eyes to a lesser extent. I *think* those are the only ones to ever come under the hammer. ย There was a similar rainbow Heavy Weaponry but i believe it differed ever so slightly (frame color or something?) and I don't think the one that went to auction had the museum provenance but could well be mistaken on that fact. ย Long winded point being, no i do not think this artist is dripping works out to auction which, let's face it, is a very common strategy for other auction worthy artists. ย From my vantage point that is a strategy usually overseen by dealers as opposed to the artists themselves. ย I can assure you the auction houses would love to have a lot more of his work come under the hammer which is the principal reason why Sotheby's hosted that selling exhibition this past summer. ย This artist has been top 3 searched artists at artnet month in and month out for years and the same is true of searches at Christie's. ย I don't believe Sotheby's releases that information and if they do I've never seen it. If it were any other artist, the auction houses would have had their tentacles in him ages ago as is evidenced by the seemingly constant drip of up and coming artists at the afternoon sessions in each season. ย But, to this point, it's been beyond difficult for them to get the choice consignments with any regularity. ย
In depth thanks
1. No. 2. Stored / Gifted / No he is not. So I believe. Agree with #1 in that most of these are very old (the barcode canvas is dated '02 and my finger to the wind guess is that monkey is '03 at the latest and perhaps earlier). ย As for #2 with originals from the Bristol museum; it was fairly common knowledge even back at the show in '09 that there was a preview the night before the public opening where much of the work was offered and sold. ย '09 was not exactly the best year (almost certainly the worst since '91) to be selling art so some of those works lingered longer than any would today but I suspect most of that show was sold within the year to follow. ย As far as drip feeding Bristol museum works to auction, I'd be hard pressed to even think of handful of the 80 something works from that show to ever hit the auction block. ย I remember Go Flock Yourself going under the hammer in Greece and I think that was the first. ย Within the past year, there was the large Happy Shopper sculpture which did very well as did the Rembrandt with googly eyes to a lesser extent. I *think* those are the only ones to ever come under the hammer. ย There was a similar rainbow Heavy Weaponry but i believe it differed ever so slightly (frame color or something?) and I don't think the one that went to auction had the museum provenance but could well be mistaken on that fact. ย Long winded point being, no i do not think this artist is dripping works out to auction which, let's face it, is a very common strategy for other auction worthy artists. ย From my vantage point that is a strategy usually overseen by dealers as opposed to the artists themselves. ย I can assure you the auction houses would love to have a lot more of his work come under the hammer which is the principal reason why Sotheby's hosted that selling exhibition this past summer. ย This artist has been top 3 searched artists at artnet month in and month out for years and the same is true of searches at Christie's. ย I don't believe Sotheby's releases that information and if they do I've never seen it. If it were any other artist, the auction houses would have had their tentacles in him ages ago as is evidenced by the seemingly constant drip of up and coming artists at the afternoon sessions in each season. ย But, to this point, it's been beyond difficult for them to get the choice consignments with any regularity. ย In depth thanks
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Deleted
Posts โข 0
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January 1970
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Banksy Prices Up or Down?, by Deleted on Dec 14, 2014 10:54:53 GMT 1, Avoided thread till now, started reading couple of bits......... None the wiser lol LOL.
Where has all the fun gone though?, it's all turned into facts / figures and investments.
Avoided thread till now, started reading couple of bits......... None the wiser lol LOL. Where has all the fun gone though?, it's all turned into facts / figures and investments.
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Boyle44
New Member
Posts โข 815
Likes โข 288
February 2014
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Banksy Prices Up or Down?, by Boyle44 on Dec 14, 2014 11:45:37 GMT 1, Had some very interesting conversations here at Basel with quite a wide spectrum of high end galleries. I have been waiting year after year to see when Banksy OGs will eventually make the main show as they have yet to do at all, at least the past 4-5 years. There were a few at Context (pics bellow) but the answers fell into two categories, 1) They were a "fine Art" gallery 2) There is too short a supply of originals for it to be lucrative for them. I did not hit every show here, but did hit all the mains and in all those shows I ended up seeing only 2 OGs that had PC. One question I like to pose to knowledgable people is can they name an artist, dead or alive, that has seen in the last 5 years, year over year price % increases that exceed Banksy's (of course normal market prices). Most couldn't and the ones that came close were dead and selling for 8 figures plus. When you pose the same question and limit it to prints, no one even comes close. Then often the "bubble" / "hype" ideas come to surface but as well know when you look at supply and demand the "bubble" forecast is easily dismissed and take out that there are no private or organized groups secretly bidding up his pieces sitting on stockpiles of works, I think that can be dismissed as well. Could a Banksy "misstep" end this pattern, sure. As unlikely as it is there is always that possibility as with any living artist. One thing we have seen over that last 20 years is his consistency in keeping the interest, mystery and fascination of his work alive. I believe if he continues on this path along with continued "performances" like NY and the occasional wall piece that exponentially grow his demand, prices have only one way to go. Also one last thought... Many years from now when Banksy and most of us are no longer, imagine the legacy and power of his body of work at that time....then imagine prices of his works then. I'm not sure why you care if a Banksy makes the main show or not, since both Context and Scope are arguably the better shows anyway. The main show can be quite stuffy and boring, and the only real difference is that there are different galleries at the different shows. I can think of 2 reasons why you don't see many Banksy originals. 1. There are simply not that many for sale (low supply) 2. Banksy does not really have a traditional gallery selling his canvases. It is unlikely you will see POW or Pest Control at a major art show. A large percentage of the galleries at Basel are hocking their own artists, so I don't really expect them to track down a Banksy if he is not on their roster. I did not go to Basel this year, but last year I remember seeing 2 pieces from BOTI, plus the large smiling coppers and an orange Choose Your Weapon. Back in 2011 there was this unique GWRB that I saw as well. I don't think I asked what the price was, but now I wish I had out of curiosity: There was also a Gangsta Rat for US 18k (edition of 46) and a purple Kate for US 65K. With respect to large percentage appreciation, I recommend reading "The 350,000 Percent Rise of Christopher Wool's Masterpiece Painting" here: www.businessweek.com/articles/2014-10-09/price-of-christopher-wools-apocalypse-now-soars-with-art-marketIt is about a single canvas rather than screen prints, but I recommend reading it none the less.
Would love this Girl With Balloon
Had some very interesting conversations here at Basel with quite a wide spectrum of high end galleries. I have been waiting year after year to see when Banksy OGs will eventually make the main show as they have yet to do at all, at least the past 4-5 years. There were a few at Context (pics bellow) but the answers fell into two categories, 1) They were a "fine Art" gallery 2) There is too short a supply of originals for it to be lucrative for them. I did not hit every show here, but did hit all the mains and in all those shows I ended up seeing only 2 OGs that had PC. One question I like to pose to knowledgable people is can they name an artist, dead or alive, that has seen in the last 5 years, year over year price % increases that exceed Banksy's (of course normal market prices). Most couldn't and the ones that came close were dead and selling for 8 figures plus. When you pose the same question and limit it to prints, no one even comes close. Then often the "bubble" / "hype" ideas come to surface but as well know when you look at supply and demand the "bubble" forecast is easily dismissed and take out that there are no private or organized groups secretly bidding up his pieces sitting on stockpiles of works, I think that can be dismissed as well. Could a Banksy "misstep" end this pattern, sure. As unlikely as it is there is always that possibility as with any living artist. One thing we have seen over that last 20 years is his consistency in keeping the interest, mystery and fascination of his work alive. I believe if he continues on this path along with continued "performances" like NY and the occasional wall piece that exponentially grow his demand, prices have only one way to go. Also one last thought... Many years from now when Banksy and most of us are no longer, imagine the legacy and power of his body of work at that time....then imagine prices of his works then. I'm not sure why you care if a Banksy makes the main show or not, since both Context and Scope are arguably the better shows anyway. The main show can be quite stuffy and boring, and the only real difference is that there are different galleries at the different shows. I can think of 2 reasons why you don't see many Banksy originals. 1. There are simply not that many for sale (low supply) 2. Banksy does not really have a traditional gallery selling his canvases. It is unlikely you will see POW or Pest Control at a major art show. A large percentage of the galleries at Basel are hocking their own artists, so I don't really expect them to track down a Banksy if he is not on their roster. I did not go to Basel this year, but last year I remember seeing 2 pieces from BOTI, plus the large smiling coppers and an orange Choose Your Weapon. Back in 2011 there was this unique GWRB that I saw as well. I don't think I asked what the price was, but now I wish I had out of curiosity: There was also a Gangsta Rat for US 18k (edition of 46) and a purple Kate for US 65K. With respect to large percentage appreciation, I recommend reading "The 350,000 Percent Rise of Christopher Wool's Masterpiece Painting" here: www.businessweek.com/articles/2014-10-09/price-of-christopher-wools-apocalypse-now-soars-with-art-marketIt is about a single canvas rather than screen prints, but I recommend reading it none the less. Would love this Girl With Balloon
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Boyle44
New Member
Posts โข 815
Likes โข 288
February 2014
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Banksy Prices Up or Down?, by Boyle44 on Dec 14, 2014 11:46:28 GMT 1, Had some very interesting conversations here at Basel with quite a wide spectrum of high end galleries. I have been waiting year after year to see when Banksy OGs will eventually make the main show as they have yet to do at all, at least the past 4-5 years. There were a few at Context (pics bellow) but the answers fell into two categories, 1) They were a "fine Art" gallery 2) There is too short a supply of originals for it to be lucrative for them. I did not hit every show here, but did hit all the mains and in all those shows I ended up seeing only 2 OGs that had PC. Thought this one was a little sketchy at first since it was obviously a paste up on canvas, but after a little chat found out it was a gift piece to a close friend and had full PC at the bargain price of $650k. Love the image though. This canvas was fairly large and could be had for $850k. One question I like to pose to knowledgable people is can they name an artist, dead or alive, that has seen in the last 5 years, year over year price % increases that exceed Banksy's ( of course normal market prices). Most couldn't and the ones that came close were dead and selling for 8 figures plus. When you pose the same question and limit it to prints, no one even comes close. Then often the "bubble" / "hype" ideas come to surface but as well know when you look at supply and demand the "bubble" forecast is easily dismissed and take out that there are no private or organized groups secretly bidding up his pieces sitting on stockpiles of works, I think that can be dismissed as well. Could a Banksy "misstep" end this pattern, sure. As unlikely as it is there is always that possibility as with any living artist. One thing we have seen over that last 20 years is his consistency in keeping the interest, mystery and fascination of his work alive. I believe if he continues on this path along with continued "performances" like NY and the occasional wall piece that exponentially grow his demand, prices have only one way to go. Also one last thought... Many years from now when Banksy and most of us are no longer, imagine the legacy and power of his body of work at that time....then imagine prices of his works then. Not to be crass but I would have to see the COA for that monkey with my own eyes to believe it's authenticated as every other monkey that I've seen over the years with wings or antennae did not have a COA. ย But, if it was a gift to a good friend as the story was told, no telling what he might do for someone like that. ย As for the barcode at $850k, that thing has been everywhere since it was bought at auction last year for a comparative song by Lionel gallery out of Amsterdam. ย It was listed for sale on artnet within the week of the auction below which gave me a laugh and I enquired out of curiosity to learn it was immediately tripled to $600k by Lionel. ย It's been seemingly everywhere since waiting for the greater fool which is a shame because it's a damn fine composition.ย Banksy Title Barcode Leopard Description spray paint and acrylic on canvas signed with the artist's stencilled signature on the overlap 33 x 36 in, 84 x 91.5 cm Medium spray paint and acrylic on canvas Year of Work 2002 Size Height 33.1 in.; Width 36 in. / Height 84 cm.; Width 91.5 cm. Misc. Signed Sale of Bloomsbury Auctions: Thursday, December 5, 2013 [Lot 00141] Modern & Contemporary Art Estimate 80,000 - 120,000 GBP (130,633 - 195,950 USD) Sold For 117,800 GBP (192,357 USD) Premium Currency Converter To your last point about artist with similar % increases. ย I would expect with originals that Wool, Tauba and perhaps very recently even Ruscha would be quite a bit higher. ย But, as you said with prints, ย nobody would be in the same league. ย The prints are a function of popularity/influence and at 5 or 10k signed prints there simply aren't enough to satisfy that demand. ย The demand for the more expensive, yet less popular artists would be a tiny fraction of his. ย I hate to always draw the comparison but it looks like Warhol to my eyes all over again. ย He was looked down upon during his life by the fine art establishment for being commercial or fake and it was't until about 10 years after his death after the elders within that establishment were replaced by younger blood who grew up inspired and influenced by his work that the demand took off and his stature grew to what we know today. ย Bring up Banksy to many in the fine art world and it's immediately dismissed (not that i believe the artist cares) and I'm afraid it may require the benefit of hindsight for the wider establishment to truly recognize his genius due in large part to the fact that he's so disruptive to their model today.ย
That barcode is amazing too if only I had a spare 850k laying around lol
Had some very interesting conversations here at Basel with quite a wide spectrum of high end galleries. I have been waiting year after year to see when Banksy OGs will eventually make the main show as they have yet to do at all, at least the past 4-5 years. There were a few at Context (pics bellow) but the answers fell into two categories, 1) They were a "fine Art" gallery 2) There is too short a supply of originals for it to be lucrative for them. I did not hit every show here, but did hit all the mains and in all those shows I ended up seeing only 2 OGs that had PC. Thought this one was a little sketchy at first since it was obviously a paste up on canvas, but after a little chat found out it was a gift piece to a close friend and had full PC at the bargain price of $650k. Love the image though. This canvas was fairly large and could be had for $850k. One question I like to pose to knowledgable people is can they name an artist, dead or alive, that has seen in the last 5 years, year over year price % increases that exceed Banksy's ( of course normal market prices). Most couldn't and the ones that came close were dead and selling for 8 figures plus. When you pose the same question and limit it to prints, no one even comes close. Then often the "bubble" / "hype" ideas come to surface but as well know when you look at supply and demand the "bubble" forecast is easily dismissed and take out that there are no private or organized groups secretly bidding up his pieces sitting on stockpiles of works, I think that can be dismissed as well. Could a Banksy "misstep" end this pattern, sure. As unlikely as it is there is always that possibility as with any living artist. One thing we have seen over that last 20 years is his consistency in keeping the interest, mystery and fascination of his work alive. I believe if he continues on this path along with continued "performances" like NY and the occasional wall piece that exponentially grow his demand, prices have only one way to go. Also one last thought... Many years from now when Banksy and most of us are no longer, imagine the legacy and power of his body of work at that time....then imagine prices of his works then. Not to be crass but I would have to see the COA for that monkey with my own eyes to believe it's authenticated as every other monkey that I've seen over the years with wings or antennae did not have a COA. ย But, if it was a gift to a good friend as the story was told, no telling what he might do for someone like that. ย As for the barcode at $850k, that thing has been everywhere since it was bought at auction last year for a comparative song by Lionel gallery out of Amsterdam. ย It was listed for sale on artnet within the week of the auction below which gave me a laugh and I enquired out of curiosity to learn it was immediately tripled to $600k by Lionel. ย It's been seemingly everywhere since waiting for the greater fool which is a shame because it's a damn fine composition.ย Banksy Title Barcode Leopard Description spray paint and acrylic on canvas signed with the artist's stencilled signature on the overlap 33 x 36 in, 84 x 91.5 cm Medium spray paint and acrylic on canvas Year of Work 2002 Size Height 33.1 in.; Width 36 in. / Height 84 cm.; Width 91.5 cm. Misc. Signed Sale of Bloomsbury Auctions: Thursday, December 5, 2013 [Lot 00141] Modern & Contemporary Art Estimate 80,000 - 120,000 GBP (130,633 - 195,950 USD) Sold For 117,800 GBP (192,357 USD) Premium Currency Converter To your last point about artist with similar % increases. ย I would expect with originals that Wool, Tauba and perhaps very recently even Ruscha would be quite a bit higher. ย But, as you said with prints, ย nobody would be in the same league. ย The prints are a function of popularity/influence and at 5 or 10k signed prints there simply aren't enough to satisfy that demand. ย The demand for the more expensive, yet less popular artists would be a tiny fraction of his. ย I hate to always draw the comparison but it looks like Warhol to my eyes all over again. ย He was looked down upon during his life by the fine art establishment for being commercial or fake and it was't until about 10 years after his death after the elders within that establishment were replaced by younger blood who grew up inspired and influenced by his work that the demand took off and his stature grew to what we know today. ย Bring up Banksy to many in the fine art world and it's immediately dismissed (not that i believe the artist cares) and I'm afraid it may require the benefit of hindsight for the wider establishment to truly recognize his genius due in large part to the fact that he's so disruptive to their model today.ย That barcode is amazing too if only I had a spare 850k laying around lol
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mmmike
Junior Member
Posts โข 2,420
Likes โข 759
March 2010
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Banksy Prices Up or Down?, by mmmike on Dec 14, 2014 22:04:25 GMT 1, People here tend to miss the distinction between popular and art world popular. Banksy is hugely popular. Probably the most popular living artist in the world.
Unfortunately that doesn't much matter in the art world. The art markets are not democratic. Popularity doesn't much matter. All that matters is the taste (vested interest) of a very small number of super rich and influential people who don't really have any interest in Banksy. Why should they?
Banksy is a guy which some hip youngsters and celebrities who have some money have driven up demand to a certain extent. Prices might even go up more in the short term but don't get it twisted the art world elite doesn't give two shits about B. Nor do they give a shit about prints in general.
There is only so much that the rest of us can push Banksy prices up. My sense is there are a lot of people buying Banksy who have zero understanding of economics or how collectable markets like this one behave irrationally. Most of whom don't realize they are in this boat.
I feel bad for those who will be hurt by the crash when it comes. The bubble will burst as trends change and something new captures our collective attentions.
If you can't afford to lose all the money you have spent on Banksy bits, I'd strongly suggest selling what equates to penny stocks of the art markets.
Don't get me wrong, I love me some Banksy but I'm not delusional enough to think prices based on popularity amongst nobodies like me and the general population's short term infatuation amount to an investment.
People here tend to miss the distinction between popular and art world popular. Banksy is hugely popular. Probably the most popular living artist in the world.
Unfortunately that doesn't much matter in the art world. The art markets are not democratic. Popularity doesn't much matter. All that matters is the taste (vested interest) of a very small number of super rich and influential people who don't really have any interest in Banksy. Why should they?
Banksy is a guy which some hip youngsters and celebrities who have some money have driven up demand to a certain extent. Prices might even go up more in the short term but don't get it twisted the art world elite doesn't give two shits about B. Nor do they give a shit about prints in general.
There is only so much that the rest of us can push Banksy prices up. My sense is there are a lot of people buying Banksy who have zero understanding of economics or how collectable markets like this one behave irrationally. Most of whom don't realize they are in this boat.
I feel bad for those who will be hurt by the crash when it comes. The bubble will burst as trends change and something new captures our collective attentions.
If you can't afford to lose all the money you have spent on Banksy bits, I'd strongly suggest selling what equates to penny stocks of the art markets.
Don't get me wrong, I love me some Banksy but I'm not delusional enough to think prices based on popularity amongst nobodies like me and the general population's short term infatuation amount to an investment.
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Sweetcorn
New Member
Posts โข 984
Likes โข 487
January 2013
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Banksy Prices Up or Down?, by Sweetcorn on Dec 14, 2014 22:18:52 GMT 1, People here tend to miss the distinction between popular and art world popular. Banksy is hugely popular. Probably the most popular living artist in the world. Unfortunately that doesn't much matter in the art world. The art markets are not democratic. Popularity doesn't much matter. All that matters is the taste (vested interest) of a very small number of super rich and influential people who don't really have any interest in Banksy. Why should they? Banksy is a guy which some hip youngsters and celebrities who have some money have driven up demand to a certain extent. Prices might even go up more in the short term but don't get it twisted the art world elite doesn't give two s**ts about B. Nor do they give a s**t about prints in general. There is only so much that the rest of us can push Banksy prices up. My sense is there are a lot of people buying Banksy who have zero understanding of economics or how collectable markets like this one behave irrationally. Most of whom don't realize they are in this boat. I feel bad for those who will be hurt by the crash when it comes. The bubble will burst as trends change and something new captures our collective attentions. If you can't afford to lose all the money you have spent on Banksy bits, I'd strongly suggest selling what equates to penny stocks of the art markets. Don't get me wrong, I love me some Banksy but I'm not delusional enough to think prices based on popularity amongst nobodies like me and the general population's short term infatuation amount to an investment.
You're so niave
People here tend to miss the distinction between popular and art world popular. Banksy is hugely popular. Probably the most popular living artist in the world. Unfortunately that doesn't much matter in the art world. The art markets are not democratic. Popularity doesn't much matter. All that matters is the taste (vested interest) of a very small number of super rich and influential people who don't really have any interest in Banksy. Why should they? Banksy is a guy which some hip youngsters and celebrities who have some money have driven up demand to a certain extent. Prices might even go up more in the short term but don't get it twisted the art world elite doesn't give two s**ts about B. Nor do they give a s**t about prints in general. There is only so much that the rest of us can push Banksy prices up. My sense is there are a lot of people buying Banksy who have zero understanding of economics or how collectable markets like this one behave irrationally. Most of whom don't realize they are in this boat. I feel bad for those who will be hurt by the crash when it comes. The bubble will burst as trends change and something new captures our collective attentions. If you can't afford to lose all the money you have spent on Banksy bits, I'd strongly suggest selling what equates to penny stocks of the art markets. Don't get me wrong, I love me some Banksy but I'm not delusional enough to think prices based on popularity amongst nobodies like me and the general population's short term infatuation amount to an investment.
You're so niave
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mmmike
Junior Member
Posts โข 2,420
Likes โข 759
March 2010
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Banksy Prices Up or Down?, by mmmike on Dec 14, 2014 22:20:40 GMT 1, People here tend to miss the distinction between popular and art world popular. Banksy is hugely popular. Probably the most popular living artist in the world. Unfortunately that doesn't much matter in the art world. The art markets are not democratic. Popularity doesn't much matter. All that matters is the taste (vested interest) of a very small number of super rich and influential people who don't really have any interest in Banksy. Why should they? Banksy is a guy which some hip youngsters and celebrities who have some money have driven up demand to a certain extent. Prices might even go up more in the short term but don't get it twisted the art world elite doesn't give two s**ts about B. Nor do they give a s**t about prints in general. There is only so much that the rest of us can push Banksy prices up. My sense is there are a lot of people buying Banksy who have zero understanding of economics or how collectable markets like this one behave irrationally. Most of whom don't realize they are in this boat. I feel bad for those who will be hurt by the crash when it comes. The bubble will burst as trends change and something new captures our collective attentions. If you can't afford to lose all the money you have spent on Banksy bits, I'd strongly suggest selling what equates to penny stocks of the art markets. Don't get me wrong, I love me some Banksy but I'm not delusional enough to think prices based on popularity amongst nobodies like me and the general population's short term infatuation amount to an investment.
You're so niave
if you say so
People here tend to miss the distinction between popular and art world popular. Banksy is hugely popular. Probably the most popular living artist in the world. Unfortunately that doesn't much matter in the art world. The art markets are not democratic. Popularity doesn't much matter. All that matters is the taste (vested interest) of a very small number of super rich and influential people who don't really have any interest in Banksy. Why should they? Banksy is a guy which some hip youngsters and celebrities who have some money have driven up demand to a certain extent. Prices might even go up more in the short term but don't get it twisted the art world elite doesn't give two s**ts about B. Nor do they give a s**t about prints in general. There is only so much that the rest of us can push Banksy prices up. My sense is there are a lot of people buying Banksy who have zero understanding of economics or how collectable markets like this one behave irrationally. Most of whom don't realize they are in this boat. I feel bad for those who will be hurt by the crash when it comes. The bubble will burst as trends change and something new captures our collective attentions. If you can't afford to lose all the money you have spent on Banksy bits, I'd strongly suggest selling what equates to penny stocks of the art markets. Don't get me wrong, I love me some Banksy but I'm not delusional enough to think prices based on popularity amongst nobodies like me and the general population's short term infatuation amount to an investment.
You're so niave
if you say so
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hnkpnk
Junior Member
Posts โข 1,285
Likes โข 1,330
July 2011
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Banksy Prices Up or Down?, by hnkpnk on Dec 14, 2014 22:24:08 GMT 1, People here tend to miss the distinction between popular and art world popular. Banksy is hugely popular. Probably the most popular living artist in the world. Unfortunately that doesn't much matter in the art world. The art markets are not democratic. Popularity doesn't much matter. All that matters is the taste (vested interest) of a very small number of super rich and influential people who don't really have any interest in Banksy. Why should they? Banksy is a guy which some hip youngsters and celebrities who have some money have driven up demand to a certain extent. Prices might even go up more in the short term but don't get it twisted the art world elite doesn't give two s**ts about B. Nor do they give a s**t about prints in general. There is only so much that the rest of us can push Banksy prices up. My sense is there are a lot of people buying Banksy who have zero understanding of economics or how collectable markets like this one behave irrationally. Most of whom don't realize they are in this boat. I feel bad for those who will be hurt by the crash when it comes. The bubble will burst as trends change and something new captures our collective attentions. If you can't afford to lose all the money you have spent on Banksy bits, I'd strongly suggest selling what equates to penny stocks of the art markets. Don't get me wrong, I love me some Banksy but I'm not delusional enough to think prices based on popularity amongst nobodies like me and the general population's short term infatuation amount to an investment.
I believe you're right and I have thought of writing something similar for a long time. In X years, with all the exposure he has gotten, Banksy will feel sooo 2010's. And the prices will go way down. But I also believe that in X0 years, the young people influenced by him today and those that has gotten their interest in art from this movement will be rich, nostalgic and in important positions in the art world and all over. This is when the prices will go up and also be higher than ever. But that is a long time from now.
Naturally it will also depend on if he'll be able to maintain his anonymity, or at least his integrity. And that he doesn't lose his style or makes any terrible mistakes through the years. I for one have full confidence in his judgement.
People here tend to miss the distinction between popular and art world popular. Banksy is hugely popular. Probably the most popular living artist in the world. Unfortunately that doesn't much matter in the art world. The art markets are not democratic. Popularity doesn't much matter. All that matters is the taste (vested interest) of a very small number of super rich and influential people who don't really have any interest in Banksy. Why should they? Banksy is a guy which some hip youngsters and celebrities who have some money have driven up demand to a certain extent. Prices might even go up more in the short term but don't get it twisted the art world elite doesn't give two s**ts about B. Nor do they give a s**t about prints in general. There is only so much that the rest of us can push Banksy prices up. My sense is there are a lot of people buying Banksy who have zero understanding of economics or how collectable markets like this one behave irrationally. Most of whom don't realize they are in this boat. I feel bad for those who will be hurt by the crash when it comes. The bubble will burst as trends change and something new captures our collective attentions. If you can't afford to lose all the money you have spent on Banksy bits, I'd strongly suggest selling what equates to penny stocks of the art markets. Don't get me wrong, I love me some Banksy but I'm not delusional enough to think prices based on popularity amongst nobodies like me and the general population's short term infatuation amount to an investment. I believe you're right and I have thought of writing something similar for a long time. In X years, with all the exposure he has gotten, Banksy will feel sooo 2010's. And the prices will go way down. But I also believe that in X0 years, the young people influenced by him today and those that has gotten their interest in art from this movement will be rich, nostalgic and in important positions in the art world and all over. This is when the prices will go up and also be higher than ever. But that is a long time from now. Naturally it will also depend on if he'll be able to maintain his anonymity, or at least his integrity. And that he doesn't lose his style or makes any terrible mistakes through the years. I for one have full confidence in his judgement.
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Deleted
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January 1970
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Banksy Prices Up or Down?, by Deleted on Dec 15, 2014 10:42:03 GMT 1, People here tend to miss the distinction between popular and art world popular. Banksy is hugely popular. Probably the most popular living artist in the world. Unfortunately that doesn't much matter in the art world. The art markets are not democratic. Popularity doesn't much matter. All that matters is the taste (vested interest) of a very small number of super rich and influential people who don't really have any interest in Banksy. Why should they? Banksy is a guy which some hip youngsters and celebrities who have some money have driven up demand to a certain extent. Prices might even go up more in the short term but don't get it twisted the art world elite doesn't give two s**ts about B. Nor do they give a s**t about prints in general. There is only so much that the rest of us can push Banksy prices up. My sense is there are a lot of people buying Banksy who have zero understanding of economics or how collectable markets like this one behave irrationally. Most of whom don't realize they are in this boat. I feel bad for those who will be hurt by the crash when it comes. The bubble will burst as trends change and something new captures our collective attentions. If you can't afford to lose all the money you have spent on Banksy bits, I'd strongly suggest selling what equates to penny stocks of the art markets. Don't get me wrong, I love me some Banksy but I'm not delusional enough to think prices based on popularity amongst nobodies like me and the general population's short term infatuation amount to an investment. What he said ^^^^
There isn't enough transparency by the artist and/or the people that represent "the artist". Its all too shady for the general art world, even to a lot of people that followed him from day 1, and it gets boring after a while.
People here tend to miss the distinction between popular and art world popular. Banksy is hugely popular. Probably the most popular living artist in the world. Unfortunately that doesn't much matter in the art world. The art markets are not democratic. Popularity doesn't much matter. All that matters is the taste (vested interest) of a very small number of super rich and influential people who don't really have any interest in Banksy. Why should they? Banksy is a guy which some hip youngsters and celebrities who have some money have driven up demand to a certain extent. Prices might even go up more in the short term but don't get it twisted the art world elite doesn't give two s**ts about B. Nor do they give a s**t about prints in general. There is only so much that the rest of us can push Banksy prices up. My sense is there are a lot of people buying Banksy who have zero understanding of economics or how collectable markets like this one behave irrationally. Most of whom don't realize they are in this boat. I feel bad for those who will be hurt by the crash when it comes. The bubble will burst as trends change and something new captures our collective attentions. If you can't afford to lose all the money you have spent on Banksy bits, I'd strongly suggest selling what equates to penny stocks of the art markets. Don't get me wrong, I love me some Banksy but I'm not delusional enough to think prices based on popularity amongst nobodies like me and the general population's short term infatuation amount to an investment. What he said ^^^^ There isn't enough transparency by the artist and/or the people that represent "the artist". Its all too shady for the general art world, even to a lot of people that followed him from day 1, and it gets boring after a while.
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mojo
Junior Member
Posts โข 2,030
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May 2014
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Banksy Prices Up or Down?, by mojo on Dec 15, 2014 18:59:15 GMT 1, Nah! The Banksy phenomenon will live forever and ever amen.
Nah! The Banksy phenomenon will live forever and ever amen.
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Deleted
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January 1970
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Banksy Prices Up or Down?, by Deleted on Dec 15, 2014 21:33:24 GMT 1, This just sounds like a rehash of old conversations now.
This just sounds like a rehash of old conversations now.
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Boyle44
New Member
Posts โข 815
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February 2014
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Banksy Prices Up or Down?, by Boyle44 on Dec 15, 2014 23:49:18 GMT 1, Nah! The Banksy phenomenon will live forever and ever amen.
Enough said
Nah! The Banksy phenomenon will live forever and ever amen. Enough said
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Deleted
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January 1970
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Banksy Prices Up or Down?, by Deleted on Dec 15, 2014 23:58:00 GMT 1, People here tend to miss the distinction between popular and art world popular. Banksy is hugely popular. Probably the most popular living artist in the world. Unfortunately that doesn't much matter in the art world. The art markets are not democratic. Popularity doesn't much matter. All that matters is the taste (vested interest) of a very small number of super rich and influential people who don't really have any interest in Banksy. Why should they? Banksy is a guy which some hip youngsters and celebrities who have some money have driven up demand to a certain extent. Prices might even go up more in the short term but don't get it twisted the art world elite doesn't give two s**ts about B. Nor do they give a s**t about prints in general. There is only so much that the rest of us can push Banksy prices up. My sense is there are a lot of people buying Banksy who have zero understanding of economics or how collectable markets like this one behave irrationally. Most of whom don't realize they are in this boat. I feel bad for those who will be hurt by the crash when it comes. The bubble will burst as trends change and something new captures our collective attentions. If you can't afford to lose all the money you have spent on Banksy bits, I'd strongly suggest selling what equates to penny stocks of the art markets. Don't get me wrong, I love me some Banksy but I'm not delusional enough to think prices based on popularity amongst nobodies like me and the general population's short term infatuation amount to an investment.
So are you saying that dealers and some auction houses have pushed the prices up in order to sell to rich collectors or investors using the current media exposure and publicity to push up the prices. Rich people who can afford to buy for a million and don't need the money anyway?
People here tend to miss the distinction between popular and art world popular. Banksy is hugely popular. Probably the most popular living artist in the world. Unfortunately that doesn't much matter in the art world. The art markets are not democratic. Popularity doesn't much matter. All that matters is the taste (vested interest) of a very small number of super rich and influential people who don't really have any interest in Banksy. Why should they? Banksy is a guy which some hip youngsters and celebrities who have some money have driven up demand to a certain extent. Prices might even go up more in the short term but don't get it twisted the art world elite doesn't give two s**ts about B. Nor do they give a s**t about prints in general. There is only so much that the rest of us can push Banksy prices up. My sense is there are a lot of people buying Banksy who have zero understanding of economics or how collectable markets like this one behave irrationally. Most of whom don't realize they are in this boat. I feel bad for those who will be hurt by the crash when it comes. The bubble will burst as trends change and something new captures our collective attentions. If you can't afford to lose all the money you have spent on Banksy bits, I'd strongly suggest selling what equates to penny stocks of the art markets. Don't get me wrong, I love me some Banksy but I'm not delusional enough to think prices based on popularity amongst nobodies like me and the general population's short term infatuation amount to an investment.
So are you saying that dealers and some auction houses have pushed the prices up in order to sell to rich collectors or investors using the current media exposure and publicity to push up the prices. Rich people who can afford to buy for a million and don't need the money anyway?
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dreadnatty
Junior Member
Posts โข 5,431
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February 2013
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Banksy Prices Up or Down?, by dreadnatty on Dec 16, 2014 0:09:54 GMT 1, People here tend to miss the distinction between popular and art world popular. Banksy is hugely popular. Probably the most popular living artist in the world. Unfortunately that doesn't much matter in the art world. The art markets are not democratic. Popularity doesn't much matter. All that matters is the taste (vested interest) of a very small number of super rich and influential people who don't really have any interest in Banksy. Why should they? Banksy is a guy which some hip youngsters and celebrities who have some money have driven up demand to a certain extent. Prices might even go up more in the short term but don't get it twisted the art world elite doesn't give two s**ts about B. Nor do they give a s**t about prints in general. There is only so much that the rest of us can push Banksy prices up. My sense is there are a lot of people buying Banksy who have zero understanding of economics or how collectable markets like this one behave irrationally. Most of whom don't realize they are in this boat. I feel bad for those who will be hurt by the crash when it comes. The bubble will burst as trends change and something new captures our collective attentions. If you can't afford to lose all the money you have spent on Banksy bits, I'd strongly suggest selling what equates to penny stocks of the art markets. Don't get me wrong, I love me some Banksy but I'm not delusional enough to think prices based on popularity amongst nobodies like me and the general population's short term infatuation amount to an investment.
So are you saying that dealers and some auction houses have pushed the prices up in order to sell to rich collectors or investors using the current media exposure and publicity to push up the prices. Rich people who can afford to buy for a million and don't need the money anyway?
I dont think that dealers necessarily need push up prices(not saying they dont either), the wealthy buyers can do that all on their own
People here tend to miss the distinction between popular and art world popular. Banksy is hugely popular. Probably the most popular living artist in the world. Unfortunately that doesn't much matter in the art world. The art markets are not democratic. Popularity doesn't much matter. All that matters is the taste (vested interest) of a very small number of super rich and influential people who don't really have any interest in Banksy. Why should they? Banksy is a guy which some hip youngsters and celebrities who have some money have driven up demand to a certain extent. Prices might even go up more in the short term but don't get it twisted the art world elite doesn't give two s**ts about B. Nor do they give a s**t about prints in general. There is only so much that the rest of us can push Banksy prices up. My sense is there are a lot of people buying Banksy who have zero understanding of economics or how collectable markets like this one behave irrationally. Most of whom don't realize they are in this boat. I feel bad for those who will be hurt by the crash when it comes. The bubble will burst as trends change and something new captures our collective attentions. If you can't afford to lose all the money you have spent on Banksy bits, I'd strongly suggest selling what equates to penny stocks of the art markets. Don't get me wrong, I love me some Banksy but I'm not delusional enough to think prices based on popularity amongst nobodies like me and the general population's short term infatuation amount to an investment.
So are you saying that dealers and some auction houses have pushed the prices up in order to sell to rich collectors or investors using the current media exposure and publicity to push up the prices. Rich people who can afford to buy for a million and don't need the money anyway?
I dont think that dealers necessarily need push up prices(not saying they dont either), the wealthy buyers can do that all on their own
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Unica
Junior Member
Posts โข 2,058
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November 2013
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Banksy Prices Up or Down?, by Unica on Dec 16, 2014 0:24:30 GMT 1, It was a clever move (intentional or unintentional) not to release anything anymore to public and just focus on the street work. I say without that his market would be definitely up but nowhere near to where it is now. Where it will end? Who knows, just enjoy the ride. But new stuff is still trickling down... I haven't seen these pieces before, are they new? Where did you find the images?
It was a clever move (intentional or unintentional) not to release anything anymore to public and just focus on the street work. I say without that his market would be definitely up but nowhere near to where it is now. Where it will end? Who knows, just enjoy the ride. But new stuff is still trickling down... I haven't seen these pieces before, are they new? Where did you find the images?
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Sweetcorn
New Member
Posts โข 984
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January 2013
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Banksy Prices Up or Down?, by Sweetcorn on Dec 16, 2014 0:32:03 GMT 1, It was a clever move (intentional or unintentional) not to release anything anymore to public and just focus on the street work. I say without that his market would be definitely up but nowhere near to where it is now. Where it will end? Who knows, just enjoy the ride. But new stuff is still trickling down... I haven't seen these pieces before, are they new? Where did you find the images? this image is in the postcard set, seen that love doctor on that panel before too.
It was a clever move (intentional or unintentional) not to release anything anymore to public and just focus on the street work. I say without that his market would be definitely up but nowhere near to where it is now. Where it will end? Who knows, just enjoy the ride. But new stuff is still trickling down... I haven't seen these pieces before, are they new? Where did you find the images? this image is in the postcard set, seen that love doctor on that panel before too.
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lee3
New Member
Posts โข 832
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November 2009
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Banksy Prices Up or Down?, by lee3 on Dec 16, 2014 1:00:57 GMT 1, It was a clever move (intentional or unintentional) not to release anything anymore to public and just focus on the street work. I say without that his market would be definitely up but nowhere near to where it is now. Where it will end? Who knows, just enjoy the ride. But new stuff is still trickling down... I haven't seen these pieces before, are they new? Where did you find the images? To the last point, the first one was exhibited in the museum show so probably dated '09. The following two, prayer boy and peep hole boy are '12 i think. Last one is from '10 when the same stencil was used outside in SF in chinatown for the peace and love doc and NYC near ground zero for i love ny doc and both were painted during the north american exit thru campaign.
It was a clever move (intentional or unintentional) not to release anything anymore to public and just focus on the street work. I say without that his market would be definitely up but nowhere near to where it is now. Where it will end? Who knows, just enjoy the ride. But new stuff is still trickling down... I haven't seen these pieces before, are they new? Where did you find the images? To the last point, the first one was exhibited in the museum show so probably dated '09. The following two, prayer boy and peep hole boy are '12 i think. Last one is from '10 when the same stencil was used outside in SF in chinatown for the peace and love doc and NYC near ground zero for i love ny doc and both were painted during the north american exit thru campaign.
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Unica
Junior Member
Posts โข 2,058
Likes โข 1,220
November 2013
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Banksy Prices Up or Down?, by Unica on Dec 16, 2014 3:40:20 GMT 1, Thanks for the info, I hadn't seen any of those before I wondering it they were new pieces sold to VIPS.
Thanks for the info, I hadn't seen any of those before I wondering it they were new pieces sold to VIPS.
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motor
Junior Member
Posts โข 1,836
Likes โข 409
December 2006
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Banksy Prices Up or Down?, by motor on Dec 16, 2014 9:38:40 GMT 1, To the last point, the first one was exhibited in the museum show so probably dated '09. The following two, prayer boy and peep hole boy are '12 i think. ย Last one is from '10 when the same stencil was used outside in SF in chinatown for the peace and love doc and NYC near ground zero for i love ny doc and both were painted during the north american exit thru campaign.ย
You're right lee3 (as usual) but the point I was trying to make (didn't put the BOTI originals there as most of us have seen them) was that Banksy is constantly producing commercial work but it is not available to general public. There are lots of originals which general public has no idea about. With all these projects shows (Bristol, LA, BOTI) it had been announced to public that nothing would be for sale which as some of you know is not true. I have no problem with that and all this costs huge amount of money however it does not help with transparency and inevitably creates a hype. He (and people around him) has always been a master of mystery and PR in more than enough f...ed up art world. Saying that I love the Banksy and respect what he does.
To the last point, the first one was exhibited in the museum show so probably dated '09. The following two, prayer boy and peep hole boy are '12 i think. ย Last one is from '10 when the same stencil was used outside in SF in chinatown for the peace and love doc and NYC near ground zero for i love ny doc and both were painted during the north american exit thru campaign.ย You're right lee3 (as usual) but the point I was trying to make (didn't put the BOTI originals there as most of us have seen them) was that Banksy is constantly producing commercial work but it is not available to general public. There are lots of originals which general public has no idea about. With all these projects shows (Bristol, LA, BOTI) it had been announced to public that nothing would be for sale which as some of you know is not true. I have no problem with that and all this costs huge amount of money however it does not help with transparency and inevitably creates a hype. He (and people around him) has always been a master of mystery and PR in more than enough f...ed up art world. Saying that I love the Banksy and respect what he does.
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Deleted
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January 1970
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Banksy Prices Up or Down?, by Deleted on Dec 16, 2014 13:33:01 GMT 1, The only thing that I can see that might have the art world hoi poloi not collecting or selling or promoting Banksy in the future is that it looks too much like real art.
For longevity the art world hoi poloi tends to be turned on by pretentious shit and bland stuff like Rachel Whitereads cast concrete casting of a house (how clever indeed) and garbage like Twomblyu scribbles and Gilbert and Georges photos of their own turds displayed and eaten up by the Serotaga wearing deviants of the art world.
The art world hoi poloi loves the Banksy half phone box and other sculptures made by assistants yet don't think much of a big painting on an outside wall.
In fact the art world don't like outsiders full stop.
The only thing that I can see that might have the art world hoi poloi not collecting or selling or promoting Banksy in the future is that it looks too much like real art.
For longevity the art world hoi poloi tends to be turned on by pretentious shit and bland stuff like Rachel Whitereads cast concrete casting of a house (how clever indeed) and garbage like Twomblyu scribbles and Gilbert and Georges photos of their own turds displayed and eaten up by the Serotaga wearing deviants of the art world.
The art world hoi poloi loves the Banksy half phone box and other sculptures made by assistants yet don't think much of a big painting on an outside wall.
In fact the art world don't like outsiders full stop.
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Deleted
Posts โข 0
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January 1970
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Banksy Prices Up or Down?, by Deleted on Dec 16, 2014 14:04:56 GMT 1, anyone see Portillos great railway journeys on BBClast night ? He was in Israel/ Jersualme/ Bethlehm . and yes. guess what was remarked upon during his trip to the infant jesus house ?....
anyone see Portillos great railway journeys on BBClast night ? He was in Israel/ Jersualme/ Bethlehm . and yes. guess what was remarked upon during his trip to the infant jesus house ?....
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Deleted
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January 1970
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Banksy Prices Up or Down?, by Deleted on Dec 16, 2014 14:20:46 GMT 1, Did he say that all the infant baby Jesus and other religions from that part of the world are just fantasies and nothing more than cults?
Did he say that all the infant baby Jesus and other religions from that part of the world are just fantasies and nothing more than cults?
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Deleted
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January 1970
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Banksy Prices Up or Down?, by Deleted on Dec 16, 2014 14:22:27 GMT 1, funnily enough he didnt.
funnily enough he didnt.
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Deleted
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January 1970
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Banksy Prices Up or Down?, by Deleted on Dec 16, 2014 14:27:34 GMT 1, Then he must have spoken the B word.
Then he must have spoken the B word.
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