Deleted
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January 1970
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Banksy Prices Up or Down?, by Deleted on Dec 9, 2014 22:35:58 GMT 1, I disagree once he is outed it will have a huge impact. People love the mystique of not knowing who he is. This totally makes his work more appealing. I don't think he'd half 500k people go to his museum show If he was a known artist? When people new to his art first see a banksy on the street or in some one's home, first statement Is 'its amazing no one knows who he is'... Also look at the controversial pieces he has done in the past ie. wikileaks etc. and he's thrown his weight around and backed things like the Russian artists, Syria etc.. Which is great but would anyone care if say another big name shepard fairey did this? Doubt it, it wouldn't make the press. Banksy is popular due to his art he puts out, the books, movie and the cheekiness of it - putting pieces up in galleries .. he gets way with it because of his anonymity and he will be around for a while. But things will change when if they found out who he is and he appears on day time tv talking about it all over a cup of tea with Richard and Judy it could all become boring. He was 'outed' in 2008.
I disagree once he is outed it will have a huge impact. People love the mystique of not knowing who he is. This totally makes his work more appealing. I don't think he'd half 500k people go to his museum show If he was a known artist? When people new to his art first see a banksy on the street or in some one's home, first statement Is 'its amazing no one knows who he is'... Also look at the controversial pieces he has done in the past ie. wikileaks etc. and he's thrown his weight around and backed things like the Russian artists, Syria etc.. Which is great but would anyone care if say another big name shepard fairey did this? Doubt it, it wouldn't make the press. Banksy is popular due to his art he puts out, the books, movie and the cheekiness of it - putting pieces up in galleries .. he gets way with it because of his anonymity and he will be around for a while. But things will change when if they found out who he is and he appears on day time tv talking about it all over a cup of tea with Richard and Judy it could all become boring. He was 'outed' in 2008.
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Banksy Prices Up or Down?, by Jeezuz Jones Snr on Dec 9, 2014 22:39:00 GMT 1, I disagree once he is outed it will have a huge impact. People love the mystique of not knowing who he is. This totally makes his work more appealing. I don't think he'd half 500k people go to his museum show If he was a known artist? When people new to his art first see a banksy on the street or in some one's home, first statement Is 'its amazing no one knows who he is'... Also look at the controversial pieces he has done in the past ie. wikileaks etc. and he's thrown his weight around and backed things like the Russian artists, Syria etc.. Which is great but would anyone care if say another big name shepard fairey did this? Doubt it, it wouldn't make the press. Banksy is popular due to his art he puts out, the books, movie and the cheekiness of it - putting pieces up in galleries .. he gets way with it because of his anonymity and he will be around for a while. But things will change when if they found out who he is and he appears on day time tv talking about it all over a cup of tea with Richard and Judy it could all become boring. He was 'outed' in 2008.
Yes a 'He' back then, these days banksy is reported to be a she and has 6 helpers...
I disagree once he is outed it will have a huge impact. People love the mystique of not knowing who he is. This totally makes his work more appealing. I don't think he'd half 500k people go to his museum show If he was a known artist? When people new to his art first see a banksy on the street or in some one's home, first statement Is 'its amazing no one knows who he is'... Also look at the controversial pieces he has done in the past ie. wikileaks etc. and he's thrown his weight around and backed things like the Russian artists, Syria etc.. Which is great but would anyone care if say another big name shepard fairey did this? Doubt it, it wouldn't make the press. Banksy is popular due to his art he puts out, the books, movie and the cheekiness of it - putting pieces up in galleries .. he gets way with it because of his anonymity and he will be around for a while. But things will change when if they found out who he is and he appears on day time tv talking about it all over a cup of tea with Richard and Judy it could all become boring. He was 'outed' in 2008. Yes a 'He' back then, these days banksy is reported to be a she and has 6 helpers...
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Sweetcorn
New Member
Posts • 984
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January 2013
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Banksy Prices Up or Down?, by Sweetcorn on Dec 9, 2014 23:04:18 GMT 1, I disagree once he is outed it will have a huge impact. People love the mystique of not knowing who he is. This totally makes his work more appealing. I don't think he'd half 500k people go to his museum show If he was a known artist? When people new to his art first see a banksy on the street or in some one's home, first statement Is 'its amazing no one knows who he is'... Also look at the controversial pieces he has done in the past ie. wikileaks etc. and he's thrown his weight around and backed things like the Russian artists, Syria etc.. Which is great but would anyone care if say another big name shepard fairey did this? Doubt it, it wouldn't make the press. Banksy is popular due to his art he puts out, the books, movie and the cheekiness of it - putting pieces up in galleries .. he gets way with it because of his anonymity and he will be around for a while. But things will change when if they found out who he is and he appears on day time tv talking about it all over a cup of tea with Richard and Judy it could all become boring. He was 'outed' in 2008. Exactly, after the Daily Mail had run up 5 million pounds trying to track him down, Finally grassed up by cash greedy photographer Peter Rickards whilst 'helping' Banksy in Jamaica.
I disagree once he is outed it will have a huge impact. People love the mystique of not knowing who he is. This totally makes his work more appealing. I don't think he'd half 500k people go to his museum show If he was a known artist? When people new to his art first see a banksy on the street or in some one's home, first statement Is 'its amazing no one knows who he is'... Also look at the controversial pieces he has done in the past ie. wikileaks etc. and he's thrown his weight around and backed things like the Russian artists, Syria etc.. Which is great but would anyone care if say another big name shepard fairey did this? Doubt it, it wouldn't make the press. Banksy is popular due to his art he puts out, the books, movie and the cheekiness of it - putting pieces up in galleries .. he gets way with it because of his anonymity and he will be around for a while. But things will change when if they found out who he is and he appears on day time tv talking about it all over a cup of tea with Richard and Judy it could all become boring. He was 'outed' in 2008. Exactly, after the Daily Mail had run up 5 million pounds trying to track him down, Finally grassed up by cash greedy photographer Peter Rickards whilst 'helping' Banksy in Jamaica.
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Cornish Crayon
Junior Member
Posts • 3,965
Likes • 2,902
December 2007
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Banksy Prices Up or Down?, by Cornish Crayon on Dec 9, 2014 23:18:16 GMT 1, Banksy bigger than Picasso. Interesting. Weight or height?
Both, that's why he is so hard to ignore !!
Banksy bigger than Picasso. Interesting. Weight or height? Both, that's why he is so hard to ignore !!
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Banksy Prices Up or Down?, by Howard Johnson on Dec 10, 2014 0:29:52 GMT 1, Also, I was just rereading this thread, and i have no clue why anyone would think him being outed would have a negative effect on the price of his work. Do we really think his prices are so high because he is anonymous, or because of the lack of work available to purchase, and because of the quality of the work he puts forth... Also, him being outed just means people would have a name to go by, other than Mr B... it wouldn't mean that the market is flooded with Banksy product, his prices are high because of the demand. I would argue the demand has little to nothing to do with who he is at this point, and everything to do with the work itself... Sorry, but I just don't see it... If he was outed I don't think it would have a negative effect on his work, and it would probably increases prices in the short term due to the publicity. However, long term, I think his prices would get much higher if he remained anonymous until his death. From an historically standpoint, it would absolutely add to his overall appeal that he was able to conduct his amazing artistic career completely anonymously. In the world we live in its frankly baffling that he hasn't been outed as of yet, and with the world growing ever more interconnected its going to seem even more impressive in the future.
Obviously, this sort of thing really only applies to future collectors. We all live in a world were a ton of urban artists remain anonymous, and we except that it comes with the territory.
Also, I was just rereading this thread, and i have no clue why anyone would think him being outed would have a negative effect on the price of his work. Do we really think his prices are so high because he is anonymous, or because of the lack of work available to purchase, and because of the quality of the work he puts forth... Also, him being outed just means people would have a name to go by, other than Mr B... it wouldn't mean that the market is flooded with Banksy product, his prices are high because of the demand. I would argue the demand has little to nothing to do with who he is at this point, and everything to do with the work itself... Sorry, but I just don't see it... If he was outed I don't think it would have a negative effect on his work, and it would probably increases prices in the short term due to the publicity. However, long term, I think his prices would get much higher if he remained anonymous until his death. From an historically standpoint, it would absolutely add to his overall appeal that he was able to conduct his amazing artistic career completely anonymously. In the world we live in its frankly baffling that he hasn't been outed as of yet, and with the world growing ever more interconnected its going to seem even more impressive in the future. Obviously, this sort of thing really only applies to future collectors. We all live in a world were a ton of urban artists remain anonymous, and we except that it comes with the territory.
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Deleted
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January 1970
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Banksy Prices Up or Down?, by Deleted on Dec 10, 2014 1:33:56 GMT 1, He's been outted, just not been outted in LA yet!!
Its always been hype - and its never been discouraged
He's been outted, just not been outted in LA yet!!
Its always been hype - and its never been discouraged
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Deleted
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January 1970
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Banksy Prices Up or Down?, by Deleted on Dec 10, 2014 2:00:10 GMT 1, I think the majority of people on here believe what the Daily Mail uncovered (or at least part of it). And no one seems to have cared
I think the majority of people on here believe what the Daily Mail uncovered (or at least part of it). And no one seems to have cared
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sgolby
Junior Member
Posts • 1,890
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November 2012
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Banksy Prices Up or Down?, by sgolby on Dec 10, 2014 2:09:32 GMT 1, I happen to think there is a significant number of people who won't believe it unless he is caught in the act, and his website states it is a Banksy piece that was being done by Banksy himself at that place and time, and shows a picture... AND pest control certifies the photo...
S
I happen to think there is a significant number of people who won't believe it unless he is caught in the act, and his website states it is a Banksy piece that was being done by Banksy himself at that place and time, and shows a picture... AND pest control certifies the photo...
S
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Sweetcorn
New Member
Posts • 984
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January 2013
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Banksy Prices Up or Down?, by Sweetcorn on Dec 10, 2014 2:53:39 GMT 1, I think the majority of people on here believe what the Daily Mail uncovered (or at least part of it). And no one seems to have cared
Well it was 6 years ago, Life goes on.
I think the majority of people on here believe what the Daily Mail uncovered (or at least part of it). And no one seems to have cared
Well it was 6 years ago, Life goes on.
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Deleted
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January 1970
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Banksy Prices Up or Down?, by Deleted on Dec 10, 2014 13:13:34 GMT 1, I happen to think there is a significant number of people who won't believe it unless he is caught in the act, and his website states it is a Banksy piece that was being done by Banksy himself at that place and time, and shows a picture... AND pest control certifies the photo... S
You want a COA with that?
The truth shall set you free
I happen to think there is a significant number of people who won't believe it unless he is caught in the act, and his website states it is a Banksy piece that was being done by Banksy himself at that place and time, and shows a picture... AND pest control certifies the photo... S You want a COA with that? The truth shall set you free
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sgolby
Junior Member
Posts • 1,890
Likes • 2,892
November 2012
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Banksy Prices Up or Down?, by sgolby on Dec 10, 2014 13:19:32 GMT 1, I happen to think there is a significant number of people who won't believe it unless he is caught in the act, and his website states it is a Banksy piece that was being done by Banksy himself at that place and time, and shows a picture... AND pest control certifies the photo... S You want a COA with that? The truth shall set you free It was a joke.... As for me, who he is mtters little... I like what he does and how he does it...
I happen to think there is a significant number of people who won't believe it unless he is caught in the act, and his website states it is a Banksy piece that was being done by Banksy himself at that place and time, and shows a picture... AND pest control certifies the photo... S You want a COA with that? The truth shall set you free It was a joke.... As for me, who he is mtters little... I like what he does and how he does it...
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Deleted
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January 1970
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Banksy Prices Up or Down?, by Deleted on Dec 10, 2014 20:00:18 GMT 1, Believe it or not outside this forum and a few trendy blogs and articles not that many people have heard of Banksy.
IMO most, if not all of the Art world and those involved therein have heard of the little s**te. Just for starters. I get what you're saying.
Banksy is like the art world version of Fat Boy Slim.
Believe it or not outside this forum and a few trendy blogs and articles not that many people have heard of Banksy.
IMO most, if not all of the Art world and those involved therein have heard of the little s**te. Just for starters. I get what you're saying.
Banksy is like the art world version of Fat Boy Slim.
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Deleted
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January 1970
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Banksy Prices Up or Down?, by Deleted on Dec 10, 2014 20:08:09 GMT 1, When I found out his Morons print wasn't drawn by him but just stolen from a Vauxhall car ad, and his trolleys etc were just photo stencils and other prints too like applause.
It's not great art but can see how people who don't realise it's not original art might think Banksy is great.
Just out of curiosity, was banksy the first person to make stencils on the street in UK Blek style or have other people done it before him?
I have little doubt that I'm going to regret wading in on this thread, but it's a bit laughable to suggest that Morons was stolen from a Vauxhall car ad. The Vauxhall ad featured a photograph with Van Gogh's Sunflowers; Banksy's piece featured a drawing with the words ' I Can't Believe You Morons Actually Buy This s**t'. They're rendered entirely differently and conceptually they're at opposite ends of a spectrum. They both make use of the same source material but that's the whole point; that image of Christie's auction room was a symbol of the greed of Thatcherism. Personally, I think the link between Blek le Rat and Banksy is much over played. Banksy started using stencils in the latter half of the 1990s when the internet wasn't what it is now and when there were very few links between Bristol's and Paris' graffiti scenes. Personally, I think it's far more likely that Banksy's use of stencils was influenced by 3D, who in turn was influenced by Gee Vaucher. There might be an interesting discussion to be had here but fortunately I know the way these threads descend so this'll be my only post on the thread except to say that nothing that Coach has posted here or anywhere else on this forum bears any resemblance to an attack, so it's a shame you should try and tar such a good guy with that brush. So was the image just put in photo shop or something and used the graphite pencil effect or something similar and then added the slogan?
It's witty and Alfred Munnings the equestrian artist did something similar with one of his oil paintings decades ago.
I saw a film clip of Blek explaining why he used rats in his street art and he said virtually the same thing about rats that Banksy said about rats and gave virtually the same reason.
Proof of the pudding is that Banksy has copied lots of images and stuff from other artists and sources.
Artists have done it for centuries and it's par for the course but artists should give a description of the technique they used to create an image.
There are far too many slick looking editions sold and stenciltype art that is nothing more than tracing scaled up photos and screen prints which are basically screen printed photos with a pastel color background.
When I found out his Morons print wasn't drawn by him but just stolen from a Vauxhall car ad, and his trolleys etc were just photo stencils and other prints too like applause.
It's not great art but can see how people who don't realise it's not original art might think Banksy is great.
Just out of curiosity, was banksy the first person to make stencils on the street in UK Blek style or have other people done it before him?
I have little doubt that I'm going to regret wading in on this thread, but it's a bit laughable to suggest that Morons was stolen from a Vauxhall car ad. The Vauxhall ad featured a photograph with Van Gogh's Sunflowers; Banksy's piece featured a drawing with the words ' I Can't Believe You Morons Actually Buy This s**t'. They're rendered entirely differently and conceptually they're at opposite ends of a spectrum. They both make use of the same source material but that's the whole point; that image of Christie's auction room was a symbol of the greed of Thatcherism. Personally, I think the link between Blek le Rat and Banksy is much over played. Banksy started using stencils in the latter half of the 1990s when the internet wasn't what it is now and when there were very few links between Bristol's and Paris' graffiti scenes. Personally, I think it's far more likely that Banksy's use of stencils was influenced by 3D, who in turn was influenced by Gee Vaucher. There might be an interesting discussion to be had here but fortunately I know the way these threads descend so this'll be my only post on the thread except to say that nothing that Coach has posted here or anywhere else on this forum bears any resemblance to an attack, so it's a shame you should try and tar such a good guy with that brush. So was the image just put in photo shop or something and used the graphite pencil effect or something similar and then added the slogan?
It's witty and Alfred Munnings the equestrian artist did something similar with one of his oil paintings decades ago.
I saw a film clip of Blek explaining why he used rats in his street art and he said virtually the same thing about rats that Banksy said about rats and gave virtually the same reason.
Proof of the pudding is that Banksy has copied lots of images and stuff from other artists and sources.
Artists have done it for centuries and it's par for the course but artists should give a description of the technique they used to create an image.
There are far too many slick looking editions sold and stenciltype art that is nothing more than tracing scaled up photos and screen prints which are basically screen printed photos with a pastel color background.
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Deleted
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January 1970
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Banksy Prices Up or Down?, by Deleted on Dec 10, 2014 20:12:41 GMT 1,
My points are valid and why should it make any difference to me if some people admire or do not admire an artist?
On the other hand you aren't one of those people who buys a dog and when it's pointe dout, refuse to acknowledge the fact and will always convince yourself it's not a dog?
People say Banksy has a social conscience etc etc so I just asked if the Honduras made T shirts sold in USA were from ethical source?
If you prefer to attack me rather than answer my valid points, it says a lot.
AlbertFackshake made some good points and critical too but you nevr attack him.
It's clear you attack me cos you are jealous (or Banksy)
and no Banksy will never be bigger than Picasso.
Believe it or not outside this forum and a few trendy blogs and articles not that many people have heard of Banksy.
In the many years that I have been posting here I don't think I've ever before been accused of attacking someone. I am sorry if that is how you feel. My post was not intended as a personal attack. No problem.
If this forum is really the Banksy Fan Club then I will only make delightful banter.
On the other hand I just say what I think and if people don't like it, I don't care.
My points are valid and why should it make any difference to me if some people admire or do not admire an artist?
On the other hand you aren't one of those people who buys a dog and when it's pointe dout, refuse to acknowledge the fact and will always convince yourself it's not a dog?
People say Banksy has a social conscience etc etc so I just asked if the Honduras made T shirts sold in USA were from ethical source?
If you prefer to attack me rather than answer my valid points, it says a lot.
AlbertFackshake made some good points and critical too but you nevr attack him.
It's clear you attack me cos you are jealous (or Banksy)
and no Banksy will never be bigger than Picasso.
Believe it or not outside this forum and a few trendy blogs and articles not that many people have heard of Banksy.
In the many years that I have been posting here I don't think I've ever before been accused of attacking someone. I am sorry if that is how you feel. My post was not intended as a personal attack. No problem.
If this forum is really the Banksy Fan Club then I will only make delightful banter.
On the other hand I just say what I think and if people don't like it, I don't care.
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Deleted
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January 1970
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Banksy Prices Up or Down?, by Deleted on Dec 10, 2014 21:01:12 GMT 1, In some ways Bankrobber and Kezler contribute to the hype.
By removing or cutting walls out of buildings with his stencils on the walls, Bankrobber is generating hype about the art.
I'm not saying he is working with Banksy.
There is lots of street art on walls including JPS Bambi and Blek and others and I don't know if any of these have been cut out of a wall to be re sold at auction albeit for a lower price.
Or maybe cut out of Syds stencil shed which would be easier with a chainsaw.
Cutting the Banky's out of walls looks like theatre and has generated a big interest in banksy's prints and stencils on canvas too.
Some people shout that Bankrobber etc have stolen these pièces.
Stolen from who exactly?
I havent heard of anyone reporting Bankrobber to the police for theft.
They end up in a gallery etc but putting perspex over them in teh street to protect them also changes their context.
People can glue his prints on walls if they like.
Paste ups are street art too.
There are rumours that Banksy revealed himself to he police three years ago and no problems ensued.
In some ways Bankrobber and Kezler contribute to the hype.
By removing or cutting walls out of buildings with his stencils on the walls, Bankrobber is generating hype about the art.
I'm not saying he is working with Banksy.
There is lots of street art on walls including JPS Bambi and Blek and others and I don't know if any of these have been cut out of a wall to be re sold at auction albeit for a lower price.
Or maybe cut out of Syds stencil shed which would be easier with a chainsaw.
Cutting the Banky's out of walls looks like theatre and has generated a big interest in banksy's prints and stencils on canvas too.
Some people shout that Bankrobber etc have stolen these pièces.
Stolen from who exactly?
I havent heard of anyone reporting Bankrobber to the police for theft.
They end up in a gallery etc but putting perspex over them in teh street to protect them also changes their context.
People can glue his prints on walls if they like.
Paste ups are street art too.
There are rumours that Banksy revealed himself to he police three years ago and no problems ensued.
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James
New Member
Posts • 121
Likes • 41
June 2012
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Banksy Prices Up or Down?, by James on Dec 10, 2014 22:23:46 GMT 1, Personally I believe theft of Street is just a part of its lifecycle, it's the urban way. The only reason why people are getting shitty is because the media portray it sells for hundreds of thousands, when the fact of the matter is it barely sells if at all.
Personally I believe theft of Street is just a part of its lifecycle, it's the urban way. The only reason why people are getting shitty is because the media portray it sells for hundreds of thousands, when the fact of the matter is it barely sells if at all.
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Deleted
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January 1970
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Banksy Prices Up or Down?, by Deleted on Dec 11, 2014 0:04:28 GMT 1, Love seeing all the pictures of the car door from Art Basel, classic.
The Banksy hype ended a while ago; now it's just nonstop entertainment.
Love seeing all the pictures of the car door from Art Basel, classic.
The Banksy hype ended a while ago; now it's just nonstop entertainment.
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Black Apple Art
Art Gallery
Junior Member
Posts • 2,007
Likes • 3,970
September 2013
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Banksy Prices Up or Down?, by Black Apple Art on Dec 11, 2014 19:57:00 GMT 1, Had some very interesting conversations here at Basel with quite a wide spectrum of high end galleries. I have been waiting year after year to see when Banksy OGs will eventually make the main show as they have yet to do at all, at least the past 4-5 years. There were a few at Context (pics bellow) but the answers fell into two categories, 1) They were a "fine Art" gallery 2) There is too short a supply of originals for it to be lucrative for them. I did not hit every show here, but did hit all the mains and in all those shows I ended up seeing only 2 OGs that had PC.
Thought this one was a little sketchy at first since it was obviously a paste up on canvas, but after a little chat found out it was a gift piece to a close friend and had full PC at the bargain price of $650k. Love the image though.
This canvas was fairly large and could be had for $850k.
One question I like to pose to knowledgable people is can they name an artist, dead or alive, that has seen in the last 5 years, year over year price % increases that exceed Banksy's ( of course normal market prices). Most couldn't and the ones that came close were dead and selling for 8 figures plus. When you pose the same question and limit it to prints, no one even comes close. Then often the "bubble" / "hype" ideas come to surface but as well know when you look at supply and demand the "bubble" forecast is easily dismissed and take out that there are no private or organized groups secretly bidding up his pieces sitting on stockpiles of works, I think that can be dismissed as well. Could a Banksy "misstep" end this pattern, sure. As unlikely as it is there is always that possibility as with any living artist. One thing we have seen over that last 20 years is his consistency in keeping the interest, mystery and fascination of his work alive. I believe if he continues on this path along with continued "performances" like NY and the occasional wall piece that exponentially grow his demand, prices have only one way to go. Also one last thought... Many years from now when Banksy and most of us are no longer, imagine the legacy and power of his body of work at that time....then imagine prices of his works then.
Had some very interesting conversations here at Basel with quite a wide spectrum of high end galleries. I have been waiting year after year to see when Banksy OGs will eventually make the main show as they have yet to do at all, at least the past 4-5 years. There were a few at Context (pics bellow) but the answers fell into two categories, 1) They were a "fine Art" gallery 2) There is too short a supply of originals for it to be lucrative for them. I did not hit every show here, but did hit all the mains and in all those shows I ended up seeing only 2 OGs that had PC. Thought this one was a little sketchy at first since it was obviously a paste up on canvas, but after a little chat found out it was a gift piece to a close friend and had full PC at the bargain price of $650k. Love the image though. This canvas was fairly large and could be had for $850k. One question I like to pose to knowledgable people is can they name an artist, dead or alive, that has seen in the last 5 years, year over year price % increases that exceed Banksy's ( of course normal market prices). Most couldn't and the ones that came close were dead and selling for 8 figures plus. When you pose the same question and limit it to prints, no one even comes close. Then often the "bubble" / "hype" ideas come to surface but as well know when you look at supply and demand the "bubble" forecast is easily dismissed and take out that there are no private or organized groups secretly bidding up his pieces sitting on stockpiles of works, I think that can be dismissed as well. Could a Banksy "misstep" end this pattern, sure. As unlikely as it is there is always that possibility as with any living artist. One thing we have seen over that last 20 years is his consistency in keeping the interest, mystery and fascination of his work alive. I believe if he continues on this path along with continued "performances" like NY and the occasional wall piece that exponentially grow his demand, prices have only one way to go. Also one last thought... Many years from now when Banksy and most of us are no longer, imagine the legacy and power of his body of work at that time....then imagine prices of his works then.
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Deleted
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January 1970
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Banksy Prices Up or Down?, by Deleted on Dec 11, 2014 20:12:58 GMT 1, haha 650k for a paste-up on canvas, sweet lord
haha 650k for a paste-up on canvas, sweet lord
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James
New Member
Posts • 121
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June 2012
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Banksy Prices Up or Down?, by James on Dec 11, 2014 20:20:34 GMT 1, I personally feel that the Banksy market is the most fickle and potentially the most volatile in the art world today. I do think the higher priced works will end up falling.
I personally feel that the Banksy market is the most fickle and potentially the most volatile in the art world today. I do think the higher priced works will end up falling.
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Banksy Prices Up or Down?, by graffuturism on Dec 11, 2014 20:59:39 GMT 1, One question I like to pose to knowledgable people is can they name an artist, dead or alive, that has seen in the last 5 years, year over year price % increases that exceed Banksy's ( of course normal market prices). Most couldn't and the ones that came close were dead and selling for 8 figures plus. When you pose the same question and limit it to prints, no one even comes close. Then often the "bubble" / "hype" ideas come to surface but as well know when you look at supply and demand the "bubble" forecast is easily dismissed and take out that there are no private or organized groups secretly bidding up his pieces sitting on stockpiles of works, I think that can be dismissed as well. Could a Banksy "misstep" end this pattern, sure. As unlikely as it is there is always that possibility as with any living artist. One thing we have seen over that last 20 years is his consistency in keeping the interest, mystery and fascination of his work alive. I believe if he continues on this path along with continued "performances" like NY and the occasional wall piece that exponentially grow his demand, prices have only one way to go. Also one last thought... Many years from now when Banksy and most of us are no longer, imagine the legacy and power of his body of work at that time....then imagine prices of his works then.
Great comment and most of the talk is always usually hype around the artist, and I say hype because its really not objective or critical. Most people assume so many things about this artist and that popularity will amount to money, comparing him to picasso or warhol etc etc. Most these comments are naive but yet we all know banksy is important and almost cracked the top 50 selling living artists in 2013 so you know he is an important figure. Yet there was 50+ artists above him that mostly older were relevant in market terms.
From a market perspective he is doing well, yet as many know the market is fickle and new art stars are made every year and they will continue to come. Banksy if he is to rest on his laurels as it seems he is content with doing I can see being surpassed by more active contemporary artists in the next decade. I am not saying there wont be more important artists but I do see some issues with how he conducts himself. Meaning most of people arguments about why he will remain going up are just assumptions without any real facts. People assume he will keep producing work at a rate where people care, people assume he will do events like NY every year or so, people assume that the market will stand still waiting for him to make work. I dont think that will be the case, also knowone knows how much work he creates so the supply and demand factor could be true if we knew what he was producing. We see new work that is private which is tough to gauge what he is producing.
Yet he could do everything right and keep going but I really dont see any signs to what he will do in either direction which is the reality of the situation. The facts are that the world keeps going China, the UAE is emerging buying alot of their art making an impact on things and New stars wether they deserve it or not like oscar murillo will continue to be churned out. I just think banksy is not a sure bet for the next phase of the market meaning where Hirst is, where other blue chip artists are. I dont see him being blue chip and that is the too big to fail area. Being anynmous is tough and being the rebel he is I think he is happy with where he is at, contrasted against art dealers that all they do is care about making more money for their artists. I can see prices leveling off at the high high end, prints continue to rise moderetly and smaller originals still doing well. I just cant see the market having enough of Banksy to really take him to the next level because of all the factors against him, no inventory, no market plan, no shows, no new work consistantly.
One question I like to pose to knowledgable people is can they name an artist, dead or alive, that has seen in the last 5 years, year over year price % increases that exceed Banksy's ( of course normal market prices). Most couldn't and the ones that came close were dead and selling for 8 figures plus. When you pose the same question and limit it to prints, no one even comes close. Then often the "bubble" / "hype" ideas come to surface but as well know when you look at supply and demand the "bubble" forecast is easily dismissed and take out that there are no private or organized groups secretly bidding up his pieces sitting on stockpiles of works, I think that can be dismissed as well. Could a Banksy "misstep" end this pattern, sure. As unlikely as it is there is always that possibility as with any living artist. One thing we have seen over that last 20 years is his consistency in keeping the interest, mystery and fascination of his work alive. I believe if he continues on this path along with continued "performances" like NY and the occasional wall piece that exponentially grow his demand, prices have only one way to go. Also one last thought... Many years from now when Banksy and most of us are no longer, imagine the legacy and power of his body of work at that time....then imagine prices of his works then. Great comment and most of the talk is always usually hype around the artist, and I say hype because its really not objective or critical. Most people assume so many things about this artist and that popularity will amount to money, comparing him to picasso or warhol etc etc. Most these comments are naive but yet we all know banksy is important and almost cracked the top 50 selling living artists in 2013 so you know he is an important figure. Yet there was 50+ artists above him that mostly older were relevant in market terms. From a market perspective he is doing well, yet as many know the market is fickle and new art stars are made every year and they will continue to come. Banksy if he is to rest on his laurels as it seems he is content with doing I can see being surpassed by more active contemporary artists in the next decade. I am not saying there wont be more important artists but I do see some issues with how he conducts himself. Meaning most of people arguments about why he will remain going up are just assumptions without any real facts. People assume he will keep producing work at a rate where people care, people assume he will do events like NY every year or so, people assume that the market will stand still waiting for him to make work. I dont think that will be the case, also knowone knows how much work he creates so the supply and demand factor could be true if we knew what he was producing. We see new work that is private which is tough to gauge what he is producing. Yet he could do everything right and keep going but I really dont see any signs to what he will do in either direction which is the reality of the situation. The facts are that the world keeps going China, the UAE is emerging buying alot of their art making an impact on things and New stars wether they deserve it or not like oscar murillo will continue to be churned out. I just think banksy is not a sure bet for the next phase of the market meaning where Hirst is, where other blue chip artists are. I dont see him being blue chip and that is the too big to fail area. Being anynmous is tough and being the rebel he is I think he is happy with where he is at, contrasted against art dealers that all they do is care about making more money for their artists. I can see prices leveling off at the high high end, prints continue to rise moderetly and smaller originals still doing well. I just cant see the market having enough of Banksy to really take him to the next level because of all the factors against him, no inventory, no market plan, no shows, no new work consistantly.
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Unica
Junior Member
Posts • 2,058
Likes • 1,220
November 2013
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Banksy Prices Up or Down?, by Unica on Dec 11, 2014 22:29:13 GMT 1, Had some very interesting conversations here at Basel with quite a wide spectrum of high end galleries. I have been waiting year after year to see when Banksy OGs will eventually make the main show as they have yet to do at all, at least the past 4-5 years. There were a few at Context (pics bellow) but the answers fell into two categories, 1) They were a "fine Art" gallery 2) There is too short a supply of originals for it to be lucrative for them. I did not hit every show here, but did hit all the mains and in all those shows I ended up seeing only 2 OGs that had PC. Thought this one was a little sketchy at first since it was obviously a paste up on canvas, but after a little chat found out it was a gift piece to a close friend and had full PC at the bargain price of $650k. Love the image though. This canvas was fairly large and could be had for $850k. One question I like to pose to knowledgable people is can they name an artist, dead or alive, that has seen in the last 5 years, year over year price % increases that exceed Banksy's ( of course normal market prices). Most couldn't and the ones that came close were dead and selling for 8 figures plus. When you pose the same question and limit it to prints, no one even comes close. Then often the "bubble" / "hype" ideas come to surface but as well know when you look at supply and demand the "bubble" forecast is easily dismissed and take out that there are no private or organized groups secretly bidding up his pieces sitting on stockpiles of works, I think that can be dismissed as well. Could a Banksy "misstep" end this pattern, sure. As unlikely as it is there is always that possibility as with any living artist. One thing we have seen over that last 20 years is his consistency in keeping the interest, mystery and fascination of his work alive. I believe if he continues on this path along with continued "performances" like NY and the occasional wall piece that exponentially grow his demand, prices have only one way to go. Also one last thought... Many years from now when Banksy and most of us are no longer, imagine the legacy and power of his body of work at that time....then imagine prices of his works then. Indeed I was on the lookout to see a Banksy OG at the show and those were the only legit pieces I saw, although I was offered them at $600k and $800k. I didn't really like the paste up, but the Barcode was awesome, quite large. The only artist I can think of whose prices seem to be higher than Banksy is maybe Oscar Murillo, not sure if he has a print market or even does them but the originals are pricey. I think his prices have only one way to go and thats up, I already see from speaking to galleries in the US that they are quick to dismiss Banksy and tell me to buy Alec Monopoly or Brainwash. Obviously they can source those artists but not Banksy, and they can't be much profit in flipping his work as everyone pretty much knows what they have and what its worth. So no much of a market. The few galleries that say have Banksy want top dollar for them.
I think in 20 years time the only artist from this genre that we will remember will be Banksy, he will be one of the few that will be talked about. Unless he has a major fall from grace that is.
Imagine if he went to China and had exposure to the 1.4 billion population.
Compare Banksy prices to Warhols and he isn't even close in price, given that Warhol pumped out work from his studio/factory. So I for one am bullish on him.
Had some very interesting conversations here at Basel with quite a wide spectrum of high end galleries. I have been waiting year after year to see when Banksy OGs will eventually make the main show as they have yet to do at all, at least the past 4-5 years. There were a few at Context (pics bellow) but the answers fell into two categories, 1) They were a "fine Art" gallery 2) There is too short a supply of originals for it to be lucrative for them. I did not hit every show here, but did hit all the mains and in all those shows I ended up seeing only 2 OGs that had PC. Thought this one was a little sketchy at first since it was obviously a paste up on canvas, but after a little chat found out it was a gift piece to a close friend and had full PC at the bargain price of $650k. Love the image though. This canvas was fairly large and could be had for $850k. One question I like to pose to knowledgable people is can they name an artist, dead or alive, that has seen in the last 5 years, year over year price % increases that exceed Banksy's ( of course normal market prices). Most couldn't and the ones that came close were dead and selling for 8 figures plus. When you pose the same question and limit it to prints, no one even comes close. Then often the "bubble" / "hype" ideas come to surface but as well know when you look at supply and demand the "bubble" forecast is easily dismissed and take out that there are no private or organized groups secretly bidding up his pieces sitting on stockpiles of works, I think that can be dismissed as well. Could a Banksy "misstep" end this pattern, sure. As unlikely as it is there is always that possibility as with any living artist. One thing we have seen over that last 20 years is his consistency in keeping the interest, mystery and fascination of his work alive. I believe if he continues on this path along with continued "performances" like NY and the occasional wall piece that exponentially grow his demand, prices have only one way to go. Also one last thought... Many years from now when Banksy and most of us are no longer, imagine the legacy and power of his body of work at that time....then imagine prices of his works then. Indeed I was on the lookout to see a Banksy OG at the show and those were the only legit pieces I saw, although I was offered them at $600k and $800k. I didn't really like the paste up, but the Barcode was awesome, quite large. The only artist I can think of whose prices seem to be higher than Banksy is maybe Oscar Murillo, not sure if he has a print market or even does them but the originals are pricey. I think his prices have only one way to go and thats up, I already see from speaking to galleries in the US that they are quick to dismiss Banksy and tell me to buy Alec Monopoly or Brainwash. Obviously they can source those artists but not Banksy, and they can't be much profit in flipping his work as everyone pretty much knows what they have and what its worth. So no much of a market. The few galleries that say have Banksy want top dollar for them. I think in 20 years time the only artist from this genre that we will remember will be Banksy, he will be one of the few that will be talked about. Unless he has a major fall from grace that is. Imagine if he went to China and had exposure to the 1.4 billion population. Compare Banksy prices to Warhols and he isn't even close in price, given that Warhol pumped out work from his studio/factory. So I for one am bullish on him.
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lee3
New Member
Posts • 832
Likes • 1,289
November 2009
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Banksy Prices Up or Down?, by lee3 on Dec 12, 2014 3:53:49 GMT 1, Had some very interesting conversations here at Basel with quite a wide spectrum of high end galleries. I have been waiting year after year to see when Banksy OGs will eventually make the main show as they have yet to do at all, at least the past 4-5 years. There were a few at Context (pics bellow) but the answers fell into two categories, 1) They were a "fine Art" gallery 2) There is too short a supply of originals for it to be lucrative for them. I did not hit every show here, but did hit all the mains and in all those shows I ended up seeing only 2 OGs that had PC. Thought this one was a little sketchy at first since it was obviously a paste up on canvas, but after a little chat found out it was a gift piece to a close friend and had full PC at the bargain price of $650k. Love the image though. This canvas was fairly large and could be had for $850k. One question I like to pose to knowledgable people is can they name an artist, dead or alive, that has seen in the last 5 years, year over year price % increases that exceed Banksy's ( of course normal market prices). Most couldn't and the ones that came close were dead and selling for 8 figures plus. When you pose the same question and limit it to prints, no one even comes close. Then often the "bubble" / "hype" ideas come to surface but as well know when you look at supply and demand the "bubble" forecast is easily dismissed and take out that there are no private or organized groups secretly bidding up his pieces sitting on stockpiles of works, I think that can be dismissed as well. Could a Banksy "misstep" end this pattern, sure. As unlikely as it is there is always that possibility as with any living artist. One thing we have seen over that last 20 years is his consistency in keeping the interest, mystery and fascination of his work alive. I believe if he continues on this path along with continued "performances" like NY and the occasional wall piece that exponentially grow his demand, prices have only one way to go. Also one last thought... Many years from now when Banksy and most of us are no longer, imagine the legacy and power of his body of work at that time....then imagine prices of his works then. Not to be crass but I would have to see the COA for that monkey with my own eyes to believe it's authenticated as every other monkey that I've seen over the years with wings or antennae did not have a COA. But, if it was a gift to a good friend as the story was told, no telling what he might do for someone like that. As for the barcode at $850k, that thing has been everywhere since it was bought at auction last year for a comparative song by Lionel gallery out of Amsterdam. It was listed for sale on artnet within the week of the auction below which gave me a laugh and I enquired out of curiosity to learn it was immediately tripled to $600k by Lionel. It's been seemingly everywhere since waiting for the greater fool which is a shame because it's a damn fine composition.
Banksy Title Barcode Leopard Description spray paint and acrylic on canvas signed with the artist's stencilled signature on the overlap 33 x 36 in, 84 x 91.5 cm Medium spray paint and acrylic on canvas Year of Work 2002 Size Height 33.1 in.; Width 36 in. / Height 84 cm.; Width 91.5 cm. Misc. Signed Sale of Bloomsbury Auctions: Thursday, December 5, 2013 [Lot 00141] Modern & Contemporary Art Estimate 80,000 - 120,000 GBP (130,633 - 195,950 USD) Sold For 117,800 GBP (192,357 USD) Premium Currency Converter
To your last point about artist with similar % increases. I would expect with originals that Wool, Tauba and perhaps very recently even Ruscha would be quite a bit higher. But, as you said with prints, nobody would be in the same league. The prints are a function of popularity/influence and at 5 or 10k signed prints there simply aren't enough to satisfy that demand. The demand for the more expensive, yet less popular artists would be a tiny fraction of his. I hate to always draw the comparison but it looks like Warhol to my eyes all over again. He was looked down upon during his life by the fine art establishment for being commercial or fake and it was't until about 10 years after his death after the elders within that establishment were replaced by younger blood who grew up inspired and influenced by his work that the demand took off and his stature grew to what we know today. Bring up Banksy to many in the fine art world and it's immediately dismissed (not that i believe the artist cares) and I'm afraid it may require the benefit of hindsight for the wider establishment to truly recognize his genius due in large part to the fact that he's so disruptive to their model today.
Had some very interesting conversations here at Basel with quite a wide spectrum of high end galleries. I have been waiting year after year to see when Banksy OGs will eventually make the main show as they have yet to do at all, at least the past 4-5 years. There were a few at Context (pics bellow) but the answers fell into two categories, 1) They were a "fine Art" gallery 2) There is too short a supply of originals for it to be lucrative for them. I did not hit every show here, but did hit all the mains and in all those shows I ended up seeing only 2 OGs that had PC. Thought this one was a little sketchy at first since it was obviously a paste up on canvas, but after a little chat found out it was a gift piece to a close friend and had full PC at the bargain price of $650k. Love the image though. This canvas was fairly large and could be had for $850k. One question I like to pose to knowledgable people is can they name an artist, dead or alive, that has seen in the last 5 years, year over year price % increases that exceed Banksy's ( of course normal market prices). Most couldn't and the ones that came close were dead and selling for 8 figures plus. When you pose the same question and limit it to prints, no one even comes close. Then often the "bubble" / "hype" ideas come to surface but as well know when you look at supply and demand the "bubble" forecast is easily dismissed and take out that there are no private or organized groups secretly bidding up his pieces sitting on stockpiles of works, I think that can be dismissed as well. Could a Banksy "misstep" end this pattern, sure. As unlikely as it is there is always that possibility as with any living artist. One thing we have seen over that last 20 years is his consistency in keeping the interest, mystery and fascination of his work alive. I believe if he continues on this path along with continued "performances" like NY and the occasional wall piece that exponentially grow his demand, prices have only one way to go. Also one last thought... Many years from now when Banksy and most of us are no longer, imagine the legacy and power of his body of work at that time....then imagine prices of his works then. Not to be crass but I would have to see the COA for that monkey with my own eyes to believe it's authenticated as every other monkey that I've seen over the years with wings or antennae did not have a COA. But, if it was a gift to a good friend as the story was told, no telling what he might do for someone like that. As for the barcode at $850k, that thing has been everywhere since it was bought at auction last year for a comparative song by Lionel gallery out of Amsterdam. It was listed for sale on artnet within the week of the auction below which gave me a laugh and I enquired out of curiosity to learn it was immediately tripled to $600k by Lionel. It's been seemingly everywhere since waiting for the greater fool which is a shame because it's a damn fine composition. Banksy Title Barcode Leopard Description spray paint and acrylic on canvas signed with the artist's stencilled signature on the overlap 33 x 36 in, 84 x 91.5 cm Medium spray paint and acrylic on canvas Year of Work 2002 Size Height 33.1 in.; Width 36 in. / Height 84 cm.; Width 91.5 cm. Misc. Signed Sale of Bloomsbury Auctions: Thursday, December 5, 2013 [Lot 00141] Modern & Contemporary Art Estimate 80,000 - 120,000 GBP (130,633 - 195,950 USD) Sold For 117,800 GBP (192,357 USD) Premium Currency Converter To your last point about artist with similar % increases. I would expect with originals that Wool, Tauba and perhaps very recently even Ruscha would be quite a bit higher. But, as you said with prints, nobody would be in the same league. The prints are a function of popularity/influence and at 5 or 10k signed prints there simply aren't enough to satisfy that demand. The demand for the more expensive, yet less popular artists would be a tiny fraction of his. I hate to always draw the comparison but it looks like Warhol to my eyes all over again. He was looked down upon during his life by the fine art establishment for being commercial or fake and it was't until about 10 years after his death after the elders within that establishment were replaced by younger blood who grew up inspired and influenced by his work that the demand took off and his stature grew to what we know today. Bring up Banksy to many in the fine art world and it's immediately dismissed (not that i believe the artist cares) and I'm afraid it may require the benefit of hindsight for the wider establishment to truly recognize his genius due in large part to the fact that he's so disruptive to their model today.
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chaserawr
Junior Member
Posts • 1,146
Likes • 224
February 2011
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Banksy Prices Up or Down?, by chaserawr on Dec 12, 2014 4:19:55 GMT 1, I hope Banksy and his legacy of work (street art) never gets adopted by the fine art community. It is what I really enjoy about most of the artists and art in the "scene" right now.
Those type of people are blow hard wankers that have no sense of creativity and are a giant group-think. I'd would stop collecting and lose interest if I had to associate with that.
I hope Banksy and his legacy of work (street art) never gets adopted by the fine art community. It is what I really enjoy about most of the artists and art in the "scene" right now.
Those type of people are blow hard wankers that have no sense of creativity and are a giant group-think. I'd would stop collecting and lose interest if I had to associate with that.
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Banksy Prices Up or Down?, by Jeezuz Jones Snr on Dec 12, 2014 8:09:29 GMT 1, Had some very interesting conversations here at Basel with quite a wide spectrum of high end galleries. I have been waiting year after year to see when Banksy OGs will eventually make the main show as they have yet to do at all, at least the past 4-5 years. There were a few at Context (pics bellow) but the answers fell into two categories, 1) They were a "fine Art" gallery 2) There is too short a supply of originals for it to be lucrative for them. I did not hit every show here, but did hit all the mains and in all those shows I ended up seeing only 2 OGs that had PC. Thought this one was a little sketchy at first since it was obviously a paste up on canvas, but after a little chat found out it was a gift piece to a close friend and had full PC at the bargain price of $650k. Love the image though. This canvas was fairly large and could be had for $850k. One question I like to pose to knowledgable people is can they name an artist, dead or alive, that has seen in the last 5 years, year over year price % increases that exceed Banksy's ( of course normal market prices). Most couldn't and the ones that came close were dead and selling for 8 figures plus. When you pose the same question and limit it to prints, no one even comes close. Then often the "bubble" / "hype" ideas come to surface but as well know when you look at supply and demand the "bubble" forecast is easily dismissed and take out that there are no private or organized groups secretly bidding up his pieces sitting on stockpiles of works, I think that can be dismissed as well. Could a Banksy "misstep" end this pattern, sure. As unlikely as it is there is always that possibility as with any living artist. One thing we have seen over that last 20 years is his consistency in keeping the interest, mystery and fascination of his work alive. I believe if he continues on this path along with continued "performances" like NY and the occasional wall piece that exponentially grow his demand, prices have only one way to go. Also one last thought... Many years from now when Banksy and most of us are no longer, imagine the legacy and power of his body of work at that time....then imagine prices of his works then. Not to be crass but I would have to see the COA for that monkey with my own eyes to believe it's authenticated as every other monkey that I've seen over the years with wings or antennae did not have a COA. But, if it was a gift to a good friend as the story was told, no telling what he might do for someone like that. As for the barcode at $850k, that thing has been everywhere since it was bought at auction last year for a comparative song by Lionel gallery out of Amsterdam. It was listed for sale on artnet within the week of the auction below which gave me a laugh and I enquired out of curiosity to learn it was immediately tripled to $600k by Lionel. It's been seemingly everywhere since waiting for the greater fool which is a shame because it's a damn fine composition. Banksy Title Barcode Leopard Description spray paint and acrylic on canvas signed with the artist's stencilled signature on the overlap 33 x 36 in, 84 x 91.5 cm Medium spray paint and acrylic on canvas Year of Work 2002 Size Height 33.1 in.; Width 36 in. / Height 84 cm.; Width 91.5 cm. Misc. Signed Sale of Bloomsbury Auctions: Thursday, December 5, 2013 [Lot 00141] Modern & Contemporary Art Estimate 80,000 - 120,000 GBP (130,633 - 195,950 USD) Sold For 117,800 GBP (192,357 USD) Premium Currency Converter To your last point about artist with similar % increases. I would expect with originals that Wool, Tauba and perhaps very recently even Ruscha would be quite a bit higher. But, as you said with prints, nobody would be in the same league. The prints are a function of popularity/influence and at 5 or 10k signed prints there simply aren't enough to satisfy that demand. The demand for the more expensive, yet less popular artists would be a tiny fraction of his. I hate to always draw the comparison but it looks like Warhol to my eyes all over again. He was looked down upon during his life by the fine art establishment for being commercial or fake and it was't until about 10 years after his death after the elders within that establishment were replaced by younger blood who grew up inspired and influenced by his work that the demand took off and his stature grew to what we know today. Bring up Banksy to many in the fine art world and it's immediately dismissed (not that i believe the artist cares) and I'm afraid it may require the benefit of hindsight for the wider establishment to truly recognize his genius due in large part to the fact that he's so disruptive to their model today.
Wow trebled the price straight away, crazy!! Good post Lee. One thing you may know the answers to? these originals that keep appearing, are a lot of them new? What happened also to all the originals from the Bristol museum gig? ie. is banksy continuously making shitloads of $$ every year through drip feeing them in big auctions? Or to private collections? Cheers
Had some very interesting conversations here at Basel with quite a wide spectrum of high end galleries. I have been waiting year after year to see when Banksy OGs will eventually make the main show as they have yet to do at all, at least the past 4-5 years. There were a few at Context (pics bellow) but the answers fell into two categories, 1) They were a "fine Art" gallery 2) There is too short a supply of originals for it to be lucrative for them. I did not hit every show here, but did hit all the mains and in all those shows I ended up seeing only 2 OGs that had PC. Thought this one was a little sketchy at first since it was obviously a paste up on canvas, but after a little chat found out it was a gift piece to a close friend and had full PC at the bargain price of $650k. Love the image though. This canvas was fairly large and could be had for $850k. One question I like to pose to knowledgable people is can they name an artist, dead or alive, that has seen in the last 5 years, year over year price % increases that exceed Banksy's ( of course normal market prices). Most couldn't and the ones that came close were dead and selling for 8 figures plus. When you pose the same question and limit it to prints, no one even comes close. Then often the "bubble" / "hype" ideas come to surface but as well know when you look at supply and demand the "bubble" forecast is easily dismissed and take out that there are no private or organized groups secretly bidding up his pieces sitting on stockpiles of works, I think that can be dismissed as well. Could a Banksy "misstep" end this pattern, sure. As unlikely as it is there is always that possibility as with any living artist. One thing we have seen over that last 20 years is his consistency in keeping the interest, mystery and fascination of his work alive. I believe if he continues on this path along with continued "performances" like NY and the occasional wall piece that exponentially grow his demand, prices have only one way to go. Also one last thought... Many years from now when Banksy and most of us are no longer, imagine the legacy and power of his body of work at that time....then imagine prices of his works then. Not to be crass but I would have to see the COA for that monkey with my own eyes to believe it's authenticated as every other monkey that I've seen over the years with wings or antennae did not have a COA. But, if it was a gift to a good friend as the story was told, no telling what he might do for someone like that. As for the barcode at $850k, that thing has been everywhere since it was bought at auction last year for a comparative song by Lionel gallery out of Amsterdam. It was listed for sale on artnet within the week of the auction below which gave me a laugh and I enquired out of curiosity to learn it was immediately tripled to $600k by Lionel. It's been seemingly everywhere since waiting for the greater fool which is a shame because it's a damn fine composition. Banksy Title Barcode Leopard Description spray paint and acrylic on canvas signed with the artist's stencilled signature on the overlap 33 x 36 in, 84 x 91.5 cm Medium spray paint and acrylic on canvas Year of Work 2002 Size Height 33.1 in.; Width 36 in. / Height 84 cm.; Width 91.5 cm. Misc. Signed Sale of Bloomsbury Auctions: Thursday, December 5, 2013 [Lot 00141] Modern & Contemporary Art Estimate 80,000 - 120,000 GBP (130,633 - 195,950 USD) Sold For 117,800 GBP (192,357 USD) Premium Currency Converter To your last point about artist with similar % increases. I would expect with originals that Wool, Tauba and perhaps very recently even Ruscha would be quite a bit higher. But, as you said with prints, nobody would be in the same league. The prints are a function of popularity/influence and at 5 or 10k signed prints there simply aren't enough to satisfy that demand. The demand for the more expensive, yet less popular artists would be a tiny fraction of his. I hate to always draw the comparison but it looks like Warhol to my eyes all over again. He was looked down upon during his life by the fine art establishment for being commercial or fake and it was't until about 10 years after his death after the elders within that establishment were replaced by younger blood who grew up inspired and influenced by his work that the demand took off and his stature grew to what we know today. Bring up Banksy to many in the fine art world and it's immediately dismissed (not that i believe the artist cares) and I'm afraid it may require the benefit of hindsight for the wider establishment to truly recognize his genius due in large part to the fact that he's so disruptive to their model today. Wow trebled the price straight away, crazy!! Good post Lee. One thing you may know the answers to? these originals that keep appearing, are a lot of them new? What happened also to all the originals from the Bristol museum gig? ie. is banksy continuously making shitloads of $$ every year through drip feeing them in big auctions? Or to private collections? Cheers
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Deleted
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January 1970
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Banksy Prices Up or Down?, by Deleted on Dec 12, 2014 9:26:24 GMT 1, Love those little Monkey paste ups, and the Smiley Cop ones.
pic eddiedangereous.
Love those little Monkey paste ups, and the Smiley Cop ones. pic eddiedangereous.
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Deleted
Posts • 0
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January 1970
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Banksy Prices Up or Down?, by Deleted on Dec 12, 2014 9:32:20 GMT 1, Wow trebled the price straight away, crazy!! Good post Lee. One thing you may know the answers to? these originals that keep appearing, are a lot of them new? What happened also to all the originals from the Bristol museum gig? ie. is banksy continuously making s**tloads of $$ every year through drip feeing them in big auctions? Or to private collections? Cheers 1. No. 2. Stored / Gifted / No he is not.
So I believe.
Wow trebled the price straight away, crazy!! Good post Lee. One thing you may know the answers to? these originals that keep appearing, are a lot of them new? What happened also to all the originals from the Bristol museum gig? ie. is banksy continuously making s**tloads of $$ every year through drip feeing them in big auctions? Or to private collections? Cheers 1. No. 2. Stored / Gifted / No he is not. So I believe.
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jp
New Member
Posts • 423
Likes • 483
September 2006
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Banksy Prices Up or Down?, by jp on Dec 12, 2014 11:25:57 GMT 1, Had some very interesting conversations here at Basel with quite a wide spectrum of high end galleries. I have been waiting year after year to see when Banksy OGs will eventually make the main show as they have yet to do at all, at least the past 4-5 years. There were a few at Context (pics bellow) but the answers fell into two categories, 1) They were a "fine Art" gallery 2) There is too short a supply of originals for it to be lucrative for them. I did not hit every show here, but did hit all the mains and in all those shows I ended up seeing only 2 OGs that had PC. One question I like to pose to knowledgable people is can they name an artist, dead or alive, that has seen in the last 5 years, year over year price % increases that exceed Banksy's (of course normal market prices). Most couldn't and the ones that came close were dead and selling for 8 figures plus. When you pose the same question and limit it to prints, no one even comes close. Then often the "bubble" / "hype" ideas come to surface but as well know when you look at supply and demand the "bubble" forecast is easily dismissed and take out that there are no private or organized groups secretly bidding up his pieces sitting on stockpiles of works, I think that can be dismissed as well. Could a Banksy "misstep" end this pattern, sure. As unlikely as it is there is always that possibility as with any living artist. One thing we have seen over that last 20 years is his consistency in keeping the interest, mystery and fascination of his work alive. I believe if he continues on this path along with continued "performances" like NY and the occasional wall piece that exponentially grow his demand, prices have only one way to go. Also one last thought... Many years from now when Banksy and most of us are no longer, imagine the legacy and power of his body of work at that time....then imagine prices of his works then.
I'm not sure why you care if a Banksy makes the main show or not, since both Context and Scope are arguably the better shows anyway. The main show can be quite stuffy and boring, and the only real difference is that there are different galleries at the different shows. I can think of 2 reasons why you don't see many Banksy originals. 1. There are simply not that many for sale (low supply) 2. Banksy does not really have a traditional gallery selling his canvases. It is unlikely you will see POW or Pest Control at a major art show. A large percentage of the galleries at Basel are hocking their own artists, so I don't really expect them to track down a Banksy if he is not on their roster.
I did not go to Basel this year, but last year I remember seeing 2 pieces from BOTI, plus the large smiling coppers and an orange Choose Your Weapon. Back in 2011 there was this unique GWRB that I saw as well. I don't think I asked what the price was, but now I wish I had out of curiosity:
There was also a Gangsta Rat for US 18k (edition of 46) and a purple Kate for US 65K.
With respect to large percentage appreciation, I recommend reading "The 350,000 Percent Rise of Christopher Wool's Masterpiece Painting" here:
www.businessweek.com/articles/2014-10-09/price-of-christopher-wools-apocalypse-now-soars-with-art-market
It is about a single canvas rather than screen prints, but I recommend reading it none the less.
Had some very interesting conversations here at Basel with quite a wide spectrum of high end galleries. I have been waiting year after year to see when Banksy OGs will eventually make the main show as they have yet to do at all, at least the past 4-5 years. There were a few at Context (pics bellow) but the answers fell into two categories, 1) They were a "fine Art" gallery 2) There is too short a supply of originals for it to be lucrative for them. I did not hit every show here, but did hit all the mains and in all those shows I ended up seeing only 2 OGs that had PC. One question I like to pose to knowledgable people is can they name an artist, dead or alive, that has seen in the last 5 years, year over year price % increases that exceed Banksy's (of course normal market prices). Most couldn't and the ones that came close were dead and selling for 8 figures plus. When you pose the same question and limit it to prints, no one even comes close. Then often the "bubble" / "hype" ideas come to surface but as well know when you look at supply and demand the "bubble" forecast is easily dismissed and take out that there are no private or organized groups secretly bidding up his pieces sitting on stockpiles of works, I think that can be dismissed as well. Could a Banksy "misstep" end this pattern, sure. As unlikely as it is there is always that possibility as with any living artist. One thing we have seen over that last 20 years is his consistency in keeping the interest, mystery and fascination of his work alive. I believe if he continues on this path along with continued "performances" like NY and the occasional wall piece that exponentially grow his demand, prices have only one way to go. Also one last thought... Many years from now when Banksy and most of us are no longer, imagine the legacy and power of his body of work at that time....then imagine prices of his works then. I'm not sure why you care if a Banksy makes the main show or not, since both Context and Scope are arguably the better shows anyway. The main show can be quite stuffy and boring, and the only real difference is that there are different galleries at the different shows. I can think of 2 reasons why you don't see many Banksy originals. 1. There are simply not that many for sale (low supply) 2. Banksy does not really have a traditional gallery selling his canvases. It is unlikely you will see POW or Pest Control at a major art show. A large percentage of the galleries at Basel are hocking their own artists, so I don't really expect them to track down a Banksy if he is not on their roster. I did not go to Basel this year, but last year I remember seeing 2 pieces from BOTI, plus the large smiling coppers and an orange Choose Your Weapon. Back in 2011 there was this unique GWRB that I saw as well. I don't think I asked what the price was, but now I wish I had out of curiosity: There was also a Gangsta Rat for US 18k (edition of 46) and a purple Kate for US 65K. With respect to large percentage appreciation, I recommend reading "The 350,000 Percent Rise of Christopher Wool's Masterpiece Painting" here: www.businessweek.com/articles/2014-10-09/price-of-christopher-wools-apocalypse-now-soars-with-art-marketIt is about a single canvas rather than screen prints, but I recommend reading it none the less.
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Deleted
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January 1970
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Banksy Prices Up or Down?, by Deleted on Dec 12, 2014 11:29:36 GMT 1, I hope Banksy and his legacy of work (street art) never gets adopted by the fine art community. It is what I really enjoy about most of the artists and art in the "scene" right now. Those type of people are blow hard wankers that have no sense of creativity and are a giant group-think. I'd would stop collecting and lose interest if I had to associate with that. Too late!!
I hope Banksy and his legacy of work (street art) never gets adopted by the fine art community. It is what I really enjoy about most of the artists and art in the "scene" right now. Those type of people are blow hard wankers that have no sense of creativity and are a giant group-think. I'd would stop collecting and lose interest if I had to associate with that. Too late!!
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lee3
New Member
Posts • 832
Likes • 1,289
November 2009
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Banksy Prices Up or Down?, by lee3 on Dec 12, 2014 17:37:29 GMT 1, Wow trebled the price straight away, crazy!! Good post Lee. One thing you may know the answers to? these originals that keep appearing, are a lot of them new? What happened also to all the originals from the Bristol museum gig? ie. is banksy continuously making s**tloads of $$ every year through drip feeing them in big auctions? Or to private collections? Cheers 1. No. 2. Stored / Gifted / No he is not. So I believe. Agree with #1 in that most of these are very old (the barcode canvas is dated '02 and my finger to the wind guess is that monkey is '03 at the latest and perhaps earlier).
As for #2 with originals from the Bristol museum; it was fairly common knowledge even back at the show in '09 that there was a preview the night before the public opening where much of the work was offered and sold. '09 was not exactly the best year (almost certainly the worst since '91) to be selling art so some of those works lingered longer than any would today but I suspect most of that show was sold within the year to follow. As far as drip feeding Bristol museum works to auction, I'd be hard pressed to even think of handful of the 80 something works from that show to ever hit the auction block. I remember Go Flock Yourself going under the hammer in Greece and I think that was the first. Within the past year, there was the large Happy Shopper sculpture which did very well as did the Rembrandt with googly eyes to a lesser extent. I *think* those are the only ones to ever come under the hammer. There was a similar rainbow Heavy Weaponry but i believe it differed ever so slightly (frame color or something?) and I don't think the one that went to auction had the museum provenance but could well be mistaken on that fact. Long winded point being, no i do not think this artist is dripping works out to auction which, let's face it, is a very common strategy for other auction worthy artists. From my vantage point that is a strategy usually overseen by dealers as opposed to the artists themselves.
I can assure you the auction houses would love to have a lot more of his work come under the hammer which is the principal reason why Sotheby's hosted that selling exhibition this past summer. This artist has been top 3 searched artists at artnet month in and month out for years and the same is true of searches at Christie's. I don't believe Sotheby's releases that information and if they do I've never seen it. If it were any other artist, the auction houses would have had their tentacles in him ages ago as is evidenced by the seemingly constant drip of up and coming artists at the afternoon sessions in each season. But, to this point, it's been beyond difficult for them to get the choice consignments with any regularity.
Wow trebled the price straight away, crazy!! Good post Lee. One thing you may know the answers to? these originals that keep appearing, are a lot of them new? What happened also to all the originals from the Bristol museum gig? ie. is banksy continuously making s**tloads of $$ every year through drip feeing them in big auctions? Or to private collections? Cheers 1. No. 2. Stored / Gifted / No he is not. So I believe. Agree with #1 in that most of these are very old (the barcode canvas is dated '02 and my finger to the wind guess is that monkey is '03 at the latest and perhaps earlier). As for #2 with originals from the Bristol museum; it was fairly common knowledge even back at the show in '09 that there was a preview the night before the public opening where much of the work was offered and sold. '09 was not exactly the best year (almost certainly the worst since '91) to be selling art so some of those works lingered longer than any would today but I suspect most of that show was sold within the year to follow. As far as drip feeding Bristol museum works to auction, I'd be hard pressed to even think of handful of the 80 something works from that show to ever hit the auction block. I remember Go Flock Yourself going under the hammer in Greece and I think that was the first. Within the past year, there was the large Happy Shopper sculpture which did very well as did the Rembrandt with googly eyes to a lesser extent. I *think* those are the only ones to ever come under the hammer. There was a similar rainbow Heavy Weaponry but i believe it differed ever so slightly (frame color or something?) and I don't think the one that went to auction had the museum provenance but could well be mistaken on that fact. Long winded point being, no i do not think this artist is dripping works out to auction which, let's face it, is a very common strategy for other auction worthy artists. From my vantage point that is a strategy usually overseen by dealers as opposed to the artists themselves. I can assure you the auction houses would love to have a lot more of his work come under the hammer which is the principal reason why Sotheby's hosted that selling exhibition this past summer. This artist has been top 3 searched artists at artnet month in and month out for years and the same is true of searches at Christie's. I don't believe Sotheby's releases that information and if they do I've never seen it. If it were any other artist, the auction houses would have had their tentacles in him ages ago as is evidenced by the seemingly constant drip of up and coming artists at the afternoon sessions in each season. But, to this point, it's been beyond difficult for them to get the choice consignments with any regularity.
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