cama1556
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July 2021
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Sotheby's Art Auctions โข LONDON ๐ฌ๐ง, by cama1556 on Apr 27, 2022 8:46:54 GMT 1, For UK sales rule of thumb for all-in cost is times the Hammer price by 1.30x. (That excludes any ARR and assumes buyers premium at 25% of hammer)
The after sales prices quoted by auction houses only includes Buyer's Premium because VAT may not be applicable depending on where you live, i.e. non UK tax resident.
For UK sales rule of thumb for all-in cost is times the Hammer price by 1.30x. (That excludes any ARR and assumes buyers premium at 25% of hammer)
The after sales prices quoted by auction houses only includes Buyer's Premium because VAT may not be applicable depending on where you live, i.e. non UK tax resident.
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bob60
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May 2014
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Sotheby's Art Auctions โข LONDON ๐ฌ๐ง, by bob60 on Apr 27, 2022 8:55:49 GMT 1, I am now more confused than ever, how do we know what the hammer price was? Previously at auctions it seemed to be only the hammer price was shown, and then some member would kindly make a list of the sold prices including everything else to show the final price that the buyer paid.
I am now more confused than ever, how do we know what the hammer price was? Previously at auctions it seemed to be only the hammer price was shown, and then some member would kindly make a list of the sold prices including everything else to show the final price that the buyer paid.
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Unica
Junior Member
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November 2013
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Sotheby's Art Auctions โข LONDON ๐ฌ๐ง, by Unica on Apr 27, 2022 9:23:52 GMT 1, I am now more confused than ever, how do we know what the hammer price was? Previously at auctions it seemed to be only the hammer price was shown, and then some member would kindly make a list of the sold prices including everything else to show the final price that the buyer paid. Look up the terms of the auction and subtract the BP then you have the hammer price at Sothebys at least. Their price just show hammer plus BP but exludes ARR and VAT on hammer so the price the buyer actually pays is usually quite a bit more than the price listed, people seem to forget that when the state auction results. The buyer usually paid a fair bit more.
I think that was a solid set of figures for Banksy, given the number of pieces at auction this month, War in Ukraine, stock market sell off. And still we get these big number, dedicated Orange Nola ยฃ200k, Flower Thrower ยฃ200k, Donuts barely HF ยฃ300k, Choose Your Weapon ยฃ140k, Radar Rat ยฃ180k, Triptych Chucker ยฃ300k and a dedicated misprinted Kate ยฃ250k. Remember these are prints not originals, IMO originals especially edition ones have quite a bit of room to move up. HW, Lenin, PB, LN, Constabulary, Kids on guns.
I am now more confused than ever, how do we know what the hammer price was? Previously at auctions it seemed to be only the hammer price was shown, and then some member would kindly make a list of the sold prices including everything else to show the final price that the buyer paid. Look up the terms of the auction and subtract the BP then you have the hammer price at Sothebys at least. Their price just show hammer plus BP but exludes ARR and VAT on hammer so the price the buyer actually pays is usually quite a bit more than the price listed, people seem to forget that when the state auction results. The buyer usually paid a fair bit more. I think that was a solid set of figures for Banksy, given the number of pieces at auction this month, War in Ukraine, stock market sell off. And still we get these big number, dedicated Orange Nola ยฃ200k, Flower Thrower ยฃ200k, Donuts barely HF ยฃ300k, Choose Your Weapon ยฃ140k, Radar Rat ยฃ180k, Triptych Chucker ยฃ300k and a dedicated misprinted Kate ยฃ250k. Remember these are prints not originals, IMO originals especially edition ones have quite a bit of room to move up. HW, Lenin, PB, LN, Constabulary, Kids on guns.
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JFCC
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Posts โข 390
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May 2020
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Sotheby's Art Auctions โข LONDON ๐ฌ๐ง, by JFCC on Apr 27, 2022 10:05:02 GMT 1, Sorry for any confusion!!
So here is an example of the calculation as I do it to work out what the buyer actually paid or the "all in" price:
Using Thrower which is listed as ยฃ277,200 on the website this is made up of from the Hammer Price plus 26% (BP 25% and Admin 1%).
So hammer price is ยฃ220,000. (ยฃ277,200/1.26)
The buyers premium is subject to VAT so to add this it is 26% + 20% VAT = 31.2%.
ARR is a sliding scale so I use about 4% as this works for most prints hence the rounded 35% I use.
The all up price or what the buyer paid therefore is Hammer price x 35% so for Thrower this is ยฃ297k.
This also works back to the BanksyValue site.
Hope this helps!
Sorry for any confusion!!
So here is an example of the calculation as I do it to work out what the buyer actually paid or the "all in" price:
Using Thrower which is listed as ยฃ277,200 on the website this is made up of from the Hammer Price plus 26% (BP 25% and Admin 1%).
So hammer price is ยฃ220,000. (ยฃ277,200/1.26)
The buyers premium is subject to VAT so to add this it is 26% + 20% VAT = 31.2%.
ARR is a sliding scale so I use about 4% as this works for most prints hence the rounded 35% I use.
The all up price or what the buyer paid therefore is Hammer price x 35% so for Thrower this is ยฃ297k.
This also works back to the BanksyValue site.
Hope this helps!
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JFCC
New Member
Posts โข 390
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May 2020
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Sotheby's Art Auctions โข LONDON ๐ฌ๐ง, by JFCC on Apr 27, 2022 10:17:14 GMT 1, For UK sales rule of thumb for all-in cost is times the Hammer price by 1.30x. (That excludes any ARR and assumes buyers premium at 25% of hammer) The after sales prices quoted by auction houses only includes Buyer's Premium because VAT may not be applicable depending on where you live, i.e. non UK tax resident. As a small point there are virtually no jurisdictions where you can bring artwork in duty free, most countries actually have a higher rate based on the value. Exceptions are Liechtenstein, Monaco, San Marino, etc so it's actually a "blind" by the auction houses to make their fees appear more reasonable.
For UK sales rule of thumb for all-in cost is times the Hammer price by 1.30x. (That excludes any ARR and assumes buyers premium at 25% of hammer) The after sales prices quoted by auction houses only includes Buyer's Premium because VAT may not be applicable depending on where you live, i.e. non UK tax resident. As a small point there are virtually no jurisdictions where you can bring artwork in duty free, most countries actually have a higher rate based on the value. Exceptions are Liechtenstein, Monaco, San Marino, etc so it's actually a "blind" by the auction houses to make their fees appear more reasonable.
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cama1556
New Member
Posts โข 12
Likes โข 6
July 2021
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Sotheby's Art Auctions โข LONDON ๐ฌ๐ง, by cama1556 on Apr 27, 2022 11:37:21 GMT 1, For UK sales rule of thumb for all-in cost is times the Hammer price by 1.30x. (That excludes any ARR and assumes buyers premium at 25% of hammer) The after sales prices quoted by auction houses only includes Buyer's Premium because VAT may not be applicable depending on where you live, i.e. non UK tax resident. As a small point there are virtually no jurisdictions where you can bring artwork in duty free, most countries actually have a higher rate based on the value. Exceptions are Liechtenstein, Monaco, San Marino, etc so it's actually a "blind" by the auction houses to make their fees appear more reasonable.
Completely agree!
For UK sales rule of thumb for all-in cost is times the Hammer price by 1.30x. (That excludes any ARR and assumes buyers premium at 25% of hammer) The after sales prices quoted by auction houses only includes Buyer's Premium because VAT may not be applicable depending on where you live, i.e. non UK tax resident. As a small point there are virtually no jurisdictions where you can bring artwork in duty free, most countries actually have a higher rate based on the value. Exceptions are Liechtenstein, Monaco, San Marino, etc so it's actually a "blind" by the auction houses to make their fees appear more reasonable. Completely agree!
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artlike
New Member
Posts โข 440
Likes โข 203
November 2021
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Sotheby's Art Auctions โข LONDON ๐ฌ๐ง, by artlike on Apr 27, 2022 12:05:42 GMT 1, I am now more confused than ever, how do we know what the hammer price was? Previously at auctions it seemed to be only the hammer price was shown, and then some member would kindly make a list of the sold prices including everything else to show the final price that the buyer paid.
They do it now to make the results look better. Which was needed here for sure
I am now more confused than ever, how do we know what the hammer price was? Previously at auctions it seemed to be only the hammer price was shown, and then some member would kindly make a list of the sold prices including everything else to show the final price that the buyer paid. They do it now to make the results look better. Which was needed here for sure
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Sotheby's Art Auctions โข LONDON ๐ฌ๐ง, by Daniel Silk on Nov 12, 2022 10:47:05 GMT 1, Thierry Noir exhibition being held at Sotheby's ๐ณ 11-15th November at their New Bond Street Galleries in London.
https://www.instagram.com/reel/Ck2tyx2Ax7g
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Art is fun
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April 2020
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Sotheby's Art Auctions โข LONDON ๐ฌ๐ง, by Art is fun on Feb 28, 2023 1:19:31 GMT 1, Auction tomorrow 7 PM PST
Auction tomorrow 7 PM PST
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Art is fun
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April 2020
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Sotheby's Art Auctions โข LONDON ๐ฌ๐ง, by Art is fun on Feb 28, 2023 4:56:43 GMT 1, Bump
Bump
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Art is fun
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April 2020
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Sotheby's Art Auctions โข LONDON ๐ฌ๐ง, by Art is fun on Feb 28, 2023 8:06:59 GMT 1, Auction today 7 PM PST
Auction today 7 PM PST
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Art is fun
New Member
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April 2020
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Sotheby's Art Auctions โข LONDON ๐ฌ๐ง, by Art is fun on Mar 1, 2023 3:59:08 GMT 1, Auction starting now.
Auction starting now.
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Patrick 01
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Posts โข 765
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Member is Online
May 2017
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Sotheby's Art Auctions โข LONDON ๐ฌ๐ง, by Patrick 01 on Mar 1, 2023 9:15:09 GMT 1, Sales are really struggling! (Apart from the manipulated results- Albert Willem) Decent works by Jordy Kerwick, Calleja and Hirst among others not even sellingโฆโฆat Sothebys!! Buyers also seem timid about buying works by emerging artists at the minute
Sales are really struggling! (Apart from the manipulated results- Albert Willem) Decent works by Jordy Kerwick, Calleja and Hirst among others not even sellingโฆโฆat Sothebys!! Buyers also seem timid about buying works by emerging artists at the minute
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Wanchope
Junior Member
Posts โข 1,465
Likes โข 1,276
February 2020
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Sotheby's Art Auctions โข LONDON ๐ฌ๐ง, by Wanchope on Mar 1, 2023 9:19:14 GMT 1, Yep itโs interesting with Albert willem being well over inflated as his always seem to appear with Thierry noirs, I wonder if something fishy is going on ( backed by the same hype/buyers/market manipulators, but hey itโs the art world and there is plenty of that going on!
Yep itโs interesting with Albert willem being well over inflated as his always seem to appear with Thierry noirs, I wonder if something fishy is going on ( backed by the same hype/buyers/market manipulators, but hey itโs the art world and there is plenty of that going on!
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Art is fun
New Member
Posts โข 251
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April 2020
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Sotheby's Art Auctions โข LONDON ๐ฌ๐ง, by Art is fun on Mar 1, 2023 22:14:58 GMT 1, Auction in 15 hours.
Auction in 15 hours.
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Wanchope
Junior Member
Posts โข 1,465
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February 2020
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Sotheby's Art Auctions โข LONDON ๐ฌ๐ง, by Wanchope on Mar 2, 2023 0:08:44 GMT 1, Wouldnโt have a clue as itโs a great image but not a big piece and on cardboard. Iโll have a stab though and say hammer of 350k ??
Wouldnโt have a clue as itโs a great image but not a big piece and on cardboard. Iโll have a stab though and say hammer of 350k ??
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STP
New Member
Posts โข 308
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February 2022
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Sotheby's Art Auctions โข LONDON ๐ฌ๐ง, by STP on Mar 2, 2023 0:40:55 GMT 1, "The initial appearance of this iconic motif appeared on the side of a garage in Beit Sahour in 2005, close to the Israeli West Bank Barrier which separates Israel from the West Bank territories of Palestine"
The 'iconic motif' they're selling is from 2003.
Don't they teach maths at Eton?
"The initial appearance of this iconic motif appeared on the side of a garage in Beit Sahour in 2005, close to the Israeli West Bank Barrier which separates Israel from the West Bank territories of Palestine"
The 'iconic motif' they're selling is from 2003.
Don't they teach maths at Eton?
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Sotheby's Art Auctions โข LONDON ๐ฌ๐ง, by Peperami Monster on Mar 2, 2023 13:45:51 GMT 1, any one know know what :
these went for?
please?
any one know know what :
these went for?
please?
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Wanchope
Junior Member
Posts โข 1,465
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February 2020
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Sotheby's Art Auctions โข LONDON ๐ฌ๐ง, by Wanchope on Mar 2, 2023 14:05:19 GMT 1, Check Sothebys website as you can watch the auction, the pieces you mentioned haven't even happened yet.
Check Sothebys website as you can watch the auction, the pieces you mentioned haven't even happened yet.
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Cocteau 101
Junior Member
Posts โข 3,503
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January 2007
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Sotheby's Art Auctions โข LONDON ๐ฌ๐ง, by Cocteau 101 on Mar 2, 2023 15:37:01 GMT 1, 300k plus fees for the Flower Chucker
300k plus fees for the Flower Chucker
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Sotheby's Art Auctions โข LONDON ๐ฌ๐ง, by The Italian One on Mar 2, 2023 15:37:09 GMT 1, hammered at 300k gbp (plus fees on top)
hammered at 300k gbp (plus fees on top)
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Cocteau 101
Junior Member
Posts โข 3,503
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January 2007
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Sotheby's Art Auctions โข LONDON ๐ฌ๐ง, by Cocteau 101 on Mar 2, 2023 15:37:31 GMT 1, 381k all in
381k all in
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Cocteau 101
Junior Member
Posts โข 3,503
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January 2007
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Sotheby's Art Auctions โข LONDON ๐ฌ๐ง, by Cocteau 101 on Mar 2, 2023 16:35:11 GMT 1, Flower Thrower Triptych - ยฃ152k all in
Flower Thrower Triptych - ยฃ152k all in
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Art is fun
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Posts โข 251
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April 2020
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Sotheby's Art Auctions โข LONDON ๐ฌ๐ง, by Art is fun on Mar 2, 2023 16:43:51 GMT 1, I can honestly say that lady was one of the worst auctioneers of all time. Completely butchered all these sales. Gave about 10 second per bid on most items. This 100% is controlling the market. I believe if these artists were given minute intervals like how they were doing in 2021 and fist half of 2022. Then they would stay accurate of what there high estimates are worth or were worth a year ago. Instead the auction houses keep trying to lesson the sales via these shit ass workers. It takes longer then 10 seconds to even try to type your bid and get it submitted onto the Sothebys website across the world all within 10 secondsโฆ honestly weirdest thing ever as you would expect the auction houses to want to get the most premium they can get on most items.
I can honestly say that lady was one of the worst auctioneers of all time. Completely butchered all these sales. Gave about 10 second per bid on most items. This 100% is controlling the market. I believe if these artists were given minute intervals like how they were doing in 2021 and fist half of 2022. Then they would stay accurate of what there high estimates are worth or were worth a year ago. Instead the auction houses keep trying to lesson the sales via these shit ass workers. It takes longer then 10 seconds to even try to type your bid and get it submitted onto the Sothebys website across the world all within 10 secondsโฆ honestly weirdest thing ever as you would expect the auction houses to want to get the most premium they can get on most items.
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Art is fun
New Member
Posts โข 251
Likes โข 30
April 2020
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Sotheby's Art Auctions โข LONDON ๐ฌ๐ง, by Art is fun on Mar 2, 2023 16:45:18 GMT 1, Their business model at these auction houses needs to be questioned/looked at? Feel they control the market not the buyer personally.
Their business model at these auction houses needs to be questioned/looked at? Feel they control the market not the buyer personally.
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cemltz
New Member
Posts โข 470
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October 2022
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Sotheby's Art Auctions โข LONDON ๐ฌ๐ง, by cemltz on Mar 2, 2023 16:59:07 GMT 1, Their business model at these auction houses needs to be questioned/looked at? Feel they control the market not the buyer personally. The auction houses are certainly not "pristine" in terms of business practices, but Sotheby's is 100% incentivized to get max value for each item, and they generally know who and where the interest is for most lots.
Agree, that auctioneer was not great. I bought one of the Egdar Plans (I know he is not a favorite around here) and between the system and her they botched my advanced bidding. Will wait and see what the actual invoice is.
Their business model at these auction houses needs to be questioned/looked at? Feel they control the market not the buyer personally. The auction houses are certainly not "pristine" in terms of business practices, but Sotheby's is 100% incentivized to get max value for each item, and they generally know who and where the interest is for most lots. Agree, that auctioneer was not great. I bought one of the Egdar Plans (I know he is not a favorite around here) and between the system and her they botched my advanced bidding. Will wait and see what the actual invoice is.
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artearte
New Member
Posts โข 383
Likes โข 114
August 2015
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Sotheby's Art Auctions โข LONDON ๐ฌ๐ง, by artearte on Mar 2, 2023 17:08:08 GMT 1, Their business model at these auction houses needs to be questioned/looked at? Feel they control the market not the buyer personally. The auction houses are certainly not "pristine" in terms of business practices, but Sotheby's is 100% incentivized to get max value for each item, and they generally know who and where the interest is for most lots. Agree, that auctioneer was not great. I bought one of the Egdar Plans (I know he is not a favorite around here) and between the system and her they botched my advanced bidding. Will wait and see what the actual invoice is. Banksy
Flower Thrower Triptych (Grey) sold for ยฃ100k hammer
Their business model at these auction houses needs to be questioned/looked at? Feel they control the market not the buyer personally. The auction houses are certainly not "pristine" in terms of business practices, but Sotheby's is 100% incentivized to get max value for each item, and they generally know who and where the interest is for most lots. Agree, that auctioneer was not great. I bought one of the Egdar Plans (I know he is not a favorite around here) and between the system and her they botched my advanced bidding. Will wait and see what the actual invoice is. Banksy
Flower Thrower Triptych (Grey) sold for ยฃ100k hammer
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Unica
Junior Member
Posts โข 2,060
Likes โข 1,222
November 2013
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Sotheby's Art Auctions โข LONDON ๐ฌ๐ง, by Unica on Mar 2, 2023 17:11:07 GMT 1, The auction houses are certainly not "pristine" in terms of business practices, but Sotheby's is 100% incentivized to get max value for each item, and they generally know who and where the interest is for most lots. Agree, that auctioneer was not great. I bought one of the Egdar Plans (I know he is not a favorite around here) and between the system and her they botched my advanced bidding. Will wait and see what the actual invoice is. Banksy
Flower Thrower Triptych (Grey) sold for ยฃ100k hammer
Thats incorrect, the hammer was ยฃ120k.
The auction houses are certainly not "pristine" in terms of business practices, but Sotheby's is 100% incentivized to get max value for each item, and they generally know who and where the interest is for most lots. Agree, that auctioneer was not great. I bought one of the Egdar Plans (I know he is not a favorite around here) and between the system and her they botched my advanced bidding. Will wait and see what the actual invoice is. Banksy
Flower Thrower Triptych (Grey) sold for ยฃ100k hammer
Thats incorrect, the hammer was ยฃ120k.
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