tab1
Full Member
๐จ๏ธ 8,519
๐๐ป 3,679
September 2011
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Banksy Owners! How do you intend to avoid capital gains tax?, by tab1 on Oct 29, 2020 10:50:24 GMT 1, Posterbob would be a good member to ask?
Posterbob would be a good member to ask?
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cest
Junior Member
๐จ๏ธ 1,725
๐๐ป 1,160
September 2018
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Banksy Owners! How do you intend to avoid capital gains tax?, by cest on Oct 29, 2020 11:02:30 GMT 1, Not sell- totally getting over on the irs
Not sell- totally getting over on the irs
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JAlternatiรณn
Junior Member
๐จ๏ธ 1,269
๐๐ป 965
December 2011
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Banksy Owners! How do you intend to avoid capital gains tax?, by JAlternatiรณn on Oct 29, 2020 11:50:42 GMT 1, In all honesty, the best thing you can do is get a good accountant. They can help your tax position in a legal way and ensure that you pay what you should do. I don't see any comparison with huge corporations not paying tax and having a professional ensure that you only pay what you should be paying.
In all honesty, the best thing you can do is get a good accountant. They can help your tax position in a legal way and ensure that you pay what you should do. I don't see any comparison with huge corporations not paying tax and having a professional ensure that you only pay what you should be paying.
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zembuilders
New Member
๐จ๏ธ 1
๐๐ป 0
December 2020
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Banksy Owners! How do you intend to avoid capital gains tax?, by zembuilders on Dec 29, 2020 7:36:06 GMT 1, If You are a Good Businessman then its a right that you must pay tax to your government. Zem Builders is a professional company and they pay their Tax on time. some Businesses not agree to pay tax and always try to hide their Income due to saying it is very wrong decision.
If You are a Good Businessman then its a right that you must pay tax to your government. Zem Builders is a professional company and they pay their Tax on time. some Businesses not agree to pay tax and always try to hide their Income due to saying it is very wrong decision.
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Banksy Owners! How do you intend to avoid capital gains tax?, by Lroy on Dec 29, 2020 8:42:42 GMT 1, Taxes are no democratic and silly. A chap could have some bits of collection and living with a minimal salary. It s like horse racing : itโs a passion, sickness , and we give enough to the governments because of that. And it will still be the richer to know how to avoid to pay taxes with their lawyers or backdoors. Taxes on art are prehistoric things : art is not only Van Gogh, Soulage, or Rembrandt artworks, it could be a print of a local mate that is living because of his sales. As read, donโt sell. It will be an incredible increase of silly money for prints sold to USA or UK ( after Brexit ) for European ! Europe was novateur. Taxes are a trap and regression : never updates in the good sens. Germany is one of the best country about taxes : they like their people. Only richer will could enjoy art and buy prints now : as said : anti democratic thing.
Taxes are no democratic and silly. A chap could have some bits of collection and living with a minimal salary. It s like horse racing : itโs a passion, sickness , and we give enough to the governments because of that. And it will still be the richer to know how to avoid to pay taxes with their lawyers or backdoors. Taxes on art are prehistoric things : art is not only Van Gogh, Soulage, or Rembrandt artworks, it could be a print of a local mate that is living because of his sales. As read, donโt sell. It will be an incredible increase of silly money for prints sold to USA or UK ( after Brexit ) for European ! Europe was novateur. Taxes are a trap and regression : never updates in the good sens. Germany is one of the best country about taxes : they like their people. Only richer will could enjoy art and buy prints now : as said : anti democratic thing.
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Deleted
๐จ๏ธ 0
๐๐ป
January 1970
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Banksy Owners! How do you intend to avoid capital gains tax?, by Deleted on Mar 16, 2021 9:12:56 GMT 1, Probably a question for my accountant but does anyone have experience of selling an expensive piece that was acquired via a trade and how that works with CGT?
Say for example I have a piece worth ยฃ50k that was effectively straight swapped for another print years before. When it comes to selling the print I have obviously have no record of having paid for the piece so does that mean I'm liable for paying tax on the full ยฃ50k (minus allowances)? All a touch confusing. Any help appreciated. Feel free to DM if easier. Many thanks
Probably a question for my accountant but does anyone have experience of selling an expensive piece that was acquired via a trade and how that works with CGT?
Say for example I have a piece worth ยฃ50k that was effectively straight swapped for another print years before. When it comes to selling the print I have obviously have no record of having paid for the piece so does that mean I'm liable for paying tax on the full ยฃ50k (minus allowances)? All a touch confusing. Any help appreciated. Feel free to DM if easier. Many thanks
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robo
Junior Member
๐จ๏ธ 1,582
๐๐ป 1,007
November 2006
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Banksy Owners! How do you intend to avoid capital gains tax?, by robo on Mar 16, 2021 9:52:34 GMT 1, Probably a question for my accountant but does anyone have experience of selling an expensive piece that was acquired via a trade and how that works with CGT? Say for example I have a piece worth ยฃ50k that was effectively straight swapped for another print years before. When it comes to selling the print I have obviously have no record of having paid for the piece so does that mean I'm liable for paying tax on the full ยฃ50k (minus allowances)? All a touch confusing. Any help appreciated. Feel free to DM if easier. Many thanks
The CGT for the sale of your new piece will be sale value - market value of swapped piece at date of swap. The CGT that might have been due for the swapped piece will be market value at time of swap - purchase price. Market values are an inaccurate science but can be based on auction sales at the time. Iโm not an expert but thatโs my understanding. Hope helps!
Probably a question for my accountant but does anyone have experience of selling an expensive piece that was acquired via a trade and how that works with CGT? Say for example I have a piece worth ยฃ50k that was effectively straight swapped for another print years before. When it comes to selling the print I have obviously have no record of having paid for the piece so does that mean I'm liable for paying tax on the full ยฃ50k (minus allowances)? All a touch confusing. Any help appreciated. Feel free to DM if easier. Many thanks The CGT for the sale of your new piece will be sale value - market value of swapped piece at date of swap. The CGT that might have been due for the swapped piece will be market value at time of swap - purchase price. Market values are an inaccurate science but can be based on auction sales at the time. Iโm not an expert but thatโs my understanding. Hope helps!
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Hubble Bubble
Junior Member
๐จ๏ธ 4,117
๐๐ป 3,567
December 2010
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Banksy Owners! How do you intend to avoid capital gains tax?, by Hubble Bubble on Mar 16, 2021 10:23:25 GMT 1, Probably a question for my accountant but does anyone have experience of selling an expensive piece that was acquired via a trade and how that works with CGT? Say for example I have a piece worth ยฃ50k that was effectively straight swapped for another print years before. When it comes to selling the print I have obviously have no record of having paid for the piece so does that mean I'm liable for paying tax on the full ยฃ50k (minus allowances)? All a touch confusing. Any help appreciated. Feel free to DM if easier. Many thanks I've been looking at CGT recently and would say the following.
Presumably you straight swapped the piece with another piece of equal value (otherwise, it wouldn't have been a straight swap - there would have been a cash adjustment). If this is the case then the CGT due would be on the gain between what you paid for your original piece and ยฃ50k minus your allowance(s) for the current year.
If anyone asks you declare/show the value of the original piece and documentation of swap which occurred down the line.
That's as I understand it.
Probably a question for my accountant but does anyone have experience of selling an expensive piece that was acquired via a trade and how that works with CGT? Say for example I have a piece worth ยฃ50k that was effectively straight swapped for another print years before. When it comes to selling the print I have obviously have no record of having paid for the piece so does that mean I'm liable for paying tax on the full ยฃ50k (minus allowances)? All a touch confusing. Any help appreciated. Feel free to DM if easier. Many thanks I've been looking at CGT recently and would say the following. Presumably you straight swapped the piece with another piece of equal value (otherwise, it wouldn't have been a straight swap - there would have been a cash adjustment). If this is the case then the CGT due would be on the gain between what you paid for your original piece and ยฃ50k minus your allowance(s) for the current year. If anyone asks you declare/show the value of the original piece and documentation of swap which occurred down the line. That's as I understand it.
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Deleted
๐จ๏ธ 0
๐๐ป
January 1970
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Banksy Owners! How do you intend to avoid capital gains tax?, by Deleted on Mar 16, 2021 10:26:46 GMT 1, Thank for your responses. I had presumed as much but it's nice to have a bit of clarification.
Thank for your responses. I had presumed as much but it's nice to have a bit of clarification.
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Balboa
New Member
๐จ๏ธ 976
๐๐ป 1,409
November 2007
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Banksy Owners! How do you intend to avoid capital gains tax?, by Balboa on Mar 16, 2021 10:27:21 GMT 1, Probably a question for my accountant but does anyone have experience of selling an expensive piece that was acquired via a trade and how that works with CGT? Say for example I have a piece worth ยฃ50k that was effectively straight swapped for another print years before. When it comes to selling the print I have obviously have no record of having paid for the piece so does that mean I'm liable for paying tax on the full ยฃ50k (minus allowances)? All a touch confusing. Any help appreciated. Feel free to DM if easier. Many thanks I employ an accountant - but only to clean my moat.
I'll ask him when he's finished.
Probably a question for my accountant but does anyone have experience of selling an expensive piece that was acquired via a trade and how that works with CGT? Say for example I have a piece worth ยฃ50k that was effectively straight swapped for another print years before. When it comes to selling the print I have obviously have no record of having paid for the piece so does that mean I'm liable for paying tax on the full ยฃ50k (minus allowances)? All a touch confusing. Any help appreciated. Feel free to DM if easier. Many thanks I employ an accountant - but only to clean my moat. I'll ask him when he's finished.
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Hubble Bubble
Junior Member
๐จ๏ธ 4,117
๐๐ป 3,567
December 2010
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Banksy Owners! How do you intend to avoid capital gains tax?, by Hubble Bubble on Mar 16, 2021 10:36:48 GMT 1, I've been looking at CGT recently and would say the following. Presumably you straight swapped the piece with another piece of equal value (otherwise, it wouldn't have been a straight swap - there would have been a cash adjustment). If this is the case then the CGT due would be on the gain between what you paid for your original piece and ยฃ50k minus your allowance(s) for the current year. If anyone asks you declare/show the value of the original piece and documentation of swap which occurred down the line. That's as I understand it. I suspect this isnโt quite right, and possibly in your favour. Typically a trade will be treated just like a sale / purchase, so in theory CGT would have been due at the time of the trade (assuming the increase in value of the original piece and your specific circumstances made you liable for CGT at the time), as if you had sold the original piece and used the proceeds to buy the new piece. Now when selling the new piece, CGT would be due on the increase in value between the sale price and the market value at the time of the trade. This is almost always how value / profit is calculated when dealing with traded or bartered goods. The trade is treated just like any other disposal of assets. Professional advice always a good idea of course, but I would be surprised if this wasnโt how it was dealt with. But I have been wrong before, frequently... Ah, okay... that makes sense and, if so, I stand corrected.
But couldn't one simply avoid CGT by trading with an equal value piece each year and therefore using up ยฃ25k of allowance ad infinitum. So, conceivably, if you and I both had the same print that we bought for ยฃ200 that went up by less than ยฃ25k each year, we could simply keep trading it back and forth with each other. After ten years we both sell our prints for ยฃ250k each yet neither of us have any CGT as we've just been utilising our (married - individually, not to each other) ยฃ25k bands each year?
Just spitballing as, like I say, I've been looking into this.
I've been looking at CGT recently and would say the following. Presumably you straight swapped the piece with another piece of equal value (otherwise, it wouldn't have been a straight swap - there would have been a cash adjustment). If this is the case then the CGT due would be on the gain between what you paid for your original piece and ยฃ50k minus your allowance(s) for the current year. If anyone asks you declare/show the value of the original piece and documentation of swap which occurred down the line. That's as I understand it. I suspect this isnโt quite right, and possibly in your favour. Typically a trade will be treated just like a sale / purchase, so in theory CGT would have been due at the time of the trade (assuming the increase in value of the original piece and your specific circumstances made you liable for CGT at the time), as if you had sold the original piece and used the proceeds to buy the new piece. Now when selling the new piece, CGT would be due on the increase in value between the sale price and the market value at the time of the trade. This is almost always how value / profit is calculated when dealing with traded or bartered goods. The trade is treated just like any other disposal of assets. Professional advice always a good idea of course, but I would be surprised if this wasnโt how it was dealt with. But I have been wrong before, frequently... Ah, okay... that makes sense and, if so, I stand corrected. But couldn't one simply avoid CGT by trading with an equal value piece each year and therefore using up ยฃ25k of allowance ad infinitum. So, conceivably, if you and I both had the same print that we bought for ยฃ200 that went up by less than ยฃ25k each year, we could simply keep trading it back and forth with each other. After ten years we both sell our prints for ยฃ250k each yet neither of us have any CGT as we've just been utilising our (married - individually, not to each other) ยฃ25k bands each year? Just spitballing as, like I say, I've been looking into this.
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theclash
New Member
๐จ๏ธ 581
๐๐ป 644
May 2020
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Banksy Owners! How do you intend to avoid capital gains tax?, by theclash on Mar 16, 2021 10:37:41 GMT 1, For U.K. investors look at Enterprise Investment Schemes for startup investing. Very favourable outright tax treatment but if you have CGT elsewhere even better as if the startup investment goes wrong you can offset
For U.K. investors look at Enterprise Investment Schemes for startup investing. Very favourable outright tax treatment but if you have CGT elsewhere even better as if the startup investment goes wrong you can offset
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Hubble Bubble
Junior Member
๐จ๏ธ 4,117
๐๐ป 3,567
December 2010
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Banksy Owners! How do you intend to avoid capital gains tax?, by Hubble Bubble on Mar 16, 2021 10:40:52 GMT 1, For U.K. investors look at Enterprise Investment Schemes for startup investing. Very favourable outright tax treatment but if you have CGT elsewhere even better as if the startup investment goes wrong you can offset I think you have to invest the whole of the gain to qualify though, correct?
For U.K. investors look at Enterprise Investment Schemes for startup investing. Very favourable outright tax treatment but if you have CGT elsewhere even better as if the startup investment goes wrong you can offset I think you have to invest the whole of the gain to qualify though, correct?
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Warm Gun
Junior Member
๐จ๏ธ 4,646
๐๐ป 1,130
August 2009
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Banksy Owners! How do you intend to avoid capital gains tax?, by Warm Gun on Mar 16, 2021 10:50:40 GMT 1, I've never paid capital gains tax. Certainly wouldn't go out of my way to pay it.
I've never paid capital gains tax. Certainly wouldn't go out of my way to pay it.
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telecine
New Member
๐จ๏ธ 922
๐๐ป 881
October 2008
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Banksy Owners! How do you intend to avoid capital gains tax?, by telecine on Mar 16, 2021 13:45:32 GMT 1, cash is king
cash is king
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Deleted
๐จ๏ธ 0
๐๐ป
January 1970
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Banksy Owners! How do you intend to avoid capital gains tax?, by Deleted on Mar 16, 2021 13:48:36 GMT 1, Agreed. But ever tried to drop ยฃ100k undeclared cash on a house deposit? They aren't all that keen on counting all the ยฃ5 notes
Agreed. But ever tried to drop ยฃ100k undeclared cash on a house deposit? They aren't all that keen on counting all the ยฃ5 notes
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sbash
New Member
๐จ๏ธ 347
๐๐ป 388
September 2016
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Banksy Owners! How do you intend to avoid capital gains tax?, by sbash on Mar 16, 2021 13:54:46 GMT 1, Agreed. But ever tried to drop ยฃ100k undeclared cash on a house deposit? They aren't all that keen on counting all the ยฃ5 notes Hmmm, I sold a car for 10k... lost about ยฃ120 in fake ยฃ20 notes when I deposited in the bank.
Agreed. But ever tried to drop ยฃ100k undeclared cash on a house deposit? They aren't all that keen on counting all the ยฃ5 notes Hmmm, I sold a car for 10k... lost about ยฃ120 in fake ยฃ20 notes when I deposited in the bank.
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marquis
New Member
๐จ๏ธ 67
๐๐ป 50
January 2020
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Banksy Owners! How do you intend to avoid capital gains tax?, by marquis on Mar 16, 2021 14:26:43 GMT 1, Obviously not asking anyone to incriminate themselves, nor looking for a debate as to the morality of paying/not paying, but generally do you think most people here selling Banksys and other expensive prints do declare and pay capital gains tax or don't?
Obviously not asking anyone to incriminate themselves, nor looking for a debate as to the morality of paying/not paying, but generally do you think most people here selling Banksys and other expensive prints do declare and pay capital gains tax or don't?
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telecine
New Member
๐จ๏ธ 922
๐๐ป 881
October 2008
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Banksy Owners! How do you intend to avoid capital gains tax?, by telecine on Mar 16, 2021 14:28:16 GMT 1, Agreed. But ever tried to drop ยฃ100k undeclared cash on a house deposit? They aren't all that keen on counting all the ยฃ5 notes sense of humour alert
Agreed. But ever tried to drop ยฃ100k undeclared cash on a house deposit? They aren't all that keen on counting all the ยฃ5 notes sense of humour alert
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Banksy Owners! How do you intend to avoid capital gains tax?, by maddoghoek100 on Mar 16, 2021 17:52:53 GMT 1, Best way to avoid tax in the US is to die. Inheritance recieves basis stepped up to FMV. So if your grandmother is a huge collector and at the time of her tragic passing you receive her collection you are in luck.
Best way to avoid tax in the US is to die. Inheritance recieves basis stepped up to FMV. So if your grandmother is a huge collector and at the time of her tragic passing you receive her collection you are in luck.
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Hubble Bubble
Junior Member
๐จ๏ธ 4,117
๐๐ป 3,567
December 2010
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Banksy Owners! How do you intend to avoid capital gains tax?, by Hubble Bubble on Mar 16, 2021 18:29:36 GMT 1, I've never paid capital gains tax. Certainly wouldn't go out of my way to pay it. I was told once that banks automatically flag cash deposits of ยฃ10k+ to HMRC and investigations can happen. That would make it dead easy to avoid; ยฃ9k in to several separate accounts; job done. I've had a ยฃ20k cash deposit made into my bank (not art-related) and no one mentioned anything... Be interested to know. It seems massively unfair that, just cause 'a market' developed, the small ppl get fcked. I paid ยฃ100 for a bit of paper and, because rich folk now buy his work, I get stung for ยฃthousands If you're getting stung for thousands, you're making tens of thousands profit on your ยฃ100 bit of paper so it's not too bad.
I've never paid capital gains tax. Certainly wouldn't go out of my way to pay it. I was told once that banks automatically flag cash deposits of ยฃ10k+ to HMRC and investigations can happen. That would make it dead easy to avoid; ยฃ9k in to several separate accounts; job done. I've had a ยฃ20k cash deposit made into my bank (not art-related) and no one mentioned anything... Be interested to know. It seems massively unfair that, just cause 'a market' developed, the small ppl get fcked. I paid ยฃ100 for a bit of paper and, because rich folk now buy his work, I get stung for ยฃthousands If you're getting stung for thousands, you're making tens of thousands profit on your ยฃ100 bit of paper so it's not too bad.
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Inknart
Junior Member
๐จ๏ธ 3,490
๐๐ป 3,288
April 2015
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Banksy Owners! How do you intend to avoid capital gains tax?, by Inknart on Mar 16, 2021 18:29:55 GMT 1, I've never paid capital gains tax. Certainly wouldn't go out of my way to pay it. I was told once that banks automatically flag cash deposits of ยฃ10k+ to HMRC and investigations can happen. That would make it dead easy to avoid; ยฃ9k in to several separate accounts; job done. I've had a ยฃ20k cash deposit made into my bank (not art-related) and no one mentioned anything... Be interested to know. It seems massively unfair that, just cause 'a market' developed, the small ppl get fcked. I paid ยฃ100 for a bit of paper and, because rich folk now buy his work, I get stung for ยฃthousands I talked with my Tax Accountant last year about this... He said it was quite awhile ago where 10k would be worthy of flagging. Today's transfers are much higher and much more frequent. I don't know what the amount would be worthy of flagging in today's society, but i've had transfers upwards of 50k and not heard a peep.
I've never paid capital gains tax. Certainly wouldn't go out of my way to pay it. I was told once that banks automatically flag cash deposits of ยฃ10k+ to HMRC and investigations can happen. That would make it dead easy to avoid; ยฃ9k in to several separate accounts; job done. I've had a ยฃ20k cash deposit made into my bank (not art-related) and no one mentioned anything... Be interested to know. It seems massively unfair that, just cause 'a market' developed, the small ppl get fcked. I paid ยฃ100 for a bit of paper and, because rich folk now buy his work, I get stung for ยฃthousands I talked with my Tax Accountant last year about this... He said it was quite awhile ago where 10k would be worthy of flagging. Today's transfers are much higher and much more frequent. I don't know what the amount would be worthy of flagging in today's society, but i've had transfers upwards of 50k and not heard a peep.
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Deleted
๐จ๏ธ 0
๐๐ป
January 1970
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Banksy Owners! How do you intend to avoid capital gains tax?, by Deleted on Mar 16, 2021 18:39:10 GMT 1, I've never paid capital gains tax. Certainly wouldn't go out of my way to pay it. I was told once that banks automatically flag cash deposits of ยฃ10k+ to HMRC and investigations can happen. That would make it dead easy to avoid; ยฃ9k in to several separate accounts; job done. I've had a ยฃ20k cash deposit made into my bank (not art-related) and no one mentioned anything... Be interested to know. It seems massively unfair that, just cause 'a market' developed, the small ppl get fcked. I paid ยฃ100 for a bit of paper and, because rich folk now buy his work, I get stung for ยฃthousands
Not sure I agree
I don't think it right if i made say ยฃ40k profit on something I had bought years ago i'd pay less tax than a guy who had worked all year to earn ยฃ30k
(Does the maths work on above?)
I've never paid capital gains tax. Certainly wouldn't go out of my way to pay it. I was told once that banks automatically flag cash deposits of ยฃ10k+ to HMRC and investigations can happen. That would make it dead easy to avoid; ยฃ9k in to several separate accounts; job done. I've had a ยฃ20k cash deposit made into my bank (not art-related) and no one mentioned anything... Be interested to know. It seems massively unfair that, just cause 'a market' developed, the small ppl get fcked. I paid ยฃ100 for a bit of paper and, because rich folk now buy his work, I get stung for ยฃthousands Not sure I agree I don't think it right if i made say ยฃ40k profit on something I had bought years ago i'd pay less tax than a guy who had worked all year to earn ยฃ30k (Does the maths work on above?)
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Banksy Owners! How do you intend to avoid capital gains tax?, by Coach on Mar 16, 2021 18:42:34 GMT 1, If you're getting stung for thousands, you're making tens of thousands profit on your ยฃ100 bit of paper so it's not too bad. ย Agreed, but my money was income taxed at source, I paid VAT on purchase. So why should I get penalised on this. (see also, inheritance tax...same deal)
They are different taxes. The money needs to be raised one way or another. And thereโs a reasonably good argument for 100% inheritance tax.
If you're getting stung for thousands, you're making tens of thousands profit on your ยฃ100 bit of paper so it's not too bad. ย Agreed, but my money was income taxed at source, I paid VAT on purchase. So why should I get penalised on this. (see also, inheritance tax...same deal) They are different taxes. The money needs to be raised one way or another. And thereโs a reasonably good argument for 100% inheritance tax.
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Hubble Bubble
Junior Member
๐จ๏ธ 4,117
๐๐ป 3,567
December 2010
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Banksy Owners! How do you intend to avoid capital gains tax?, by Hubble Bubble on Mar 16, 2021 19:05:27 GMT 1, If you're getting stung for thousands, you're making tens of thousands profit on your ยฃ100 bit of paper so it's not too bad. Agreed, but my money was income taxed at source, I paid VAT on purchase. So why should I get penalised on this. (see also, inheritance tax...same deal) I feel your pain. And I agree with the sentiment. But I don't think you're actually being penalised in that instance. We know when we make purchases that CGT exists and that if must be factored in to any return. The VAT isn't really relevant in that you can count it in the cost of the original piece to offset against the gain. And you gain ยฃ25k tax free. And any other gain is taxed at 10% if you're a lower rate tax payer and the gain stays within this.
So your original piece of paper cost you ยฃ125 that you had to earn before tax. Government took the ยฃ25 tax and left you with ยฃ100 to buy the paper (forget NI for a moment)... then you pay ยฃ20 VAT on top... so it's 'cost' you ยฃ145 to buy your piece of paper. Let's say it's now worth ยฃ50,000. If you're married and provided your combined income is ยฃ75,000 or less, your CGT bill is ยฃ2,488. So you get to keep ยฃ47,512. Anybody on minimum wage might quibble this is a harsh penalty for such a windfall.
Inheritance tax... yeah... I don't disagree but I don't know as much about the ins and outs of it to comment. That seems much more like a double whammy though in that I can earn a million pounds, get taxed at 45%, leave (broadly) the ยฃ550k to my kids and they get immediately taxed at 40% on a massive whack of that. So in that case, there has been no gain, just a death. Now that I feel is more unfair.
But like I say, I hear the point you make. Just my take on it.
If you're getting stung for thousands, you're making tens of thousands profit on your ยฃ100 bit of paper so it's not too bad. Agreed, but my money was income taxed at source, I paid VAT on purchase. So why should I get penalised on this. (see also, inheritance tax...same deal) I feel your pain. And I agree with the sentiment. But I don't think you're actually being penalised in that instance. We know when we make purchases that CGT exists and that if must be factored in to any return. The VAT isn't really relevant in that you can count it in the cost of the original piece to offset against the gain. And you gain ยฃ25k tax free. And any other gain is taxed at 10% if you're a lower rate tax payer and the gain stays within this. So your original piece of paper cost you ยฃ125 that you had to earn before tax. Government took the ยฃ25 tax and left you with ยฃ100 to buy the paper (forget NI for a moment)... then you pay ยฃ20 VAT on top... so it's 'cost' you ยฃ145 to buy your piece of paper. Let's say it's now worth ยฃ50,000. If you're married and provided your combined income is ยฃ75,000 or less, your CGT bill is ยฃ2,488. So you get to keep ยฃ47,512. Anybody on minimum wage might quibble this is a harsh penalty for such a windfall. Inheritance tax... yeah... I don't disagree but I don't know as much about the ins and outs of it to comment. That seems much more like a double whammy though in that I can earn a million pounds, get taxed at 45%, leave (broadly) the ยฃ550k to my kids and they get immediately taxed at 40% on a massive whack of that. So in that case, there has been no gain, just a death. Now that I feel is more unfair. But like I say, I hear the point you make. Just my take on it.
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Hubble Bubble
Junior Member
๐จ๏ธ 4,117
๐๐ป 3,567
December 2010
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Banksy Owners! How do you intend to avoid capital gains tax?, by Hubble Bubble on Mar 16, 2021 19:09:39 GMT 1, Agreed, but my money was income taxed at source, I paid VAT on purchase. So why should I get penalised on this. (see also, inheritance tax...same deal) They are different taxes. The money needs to be raised one way or another. And thereโs a reasonably good argument for 100% inheritance tax. Well, seeing as how we're here and all, I'd like to hear that argument. Wouldn't it effectively suggest that ownership of anything was only temporary, valid for the life of the purchaser?
Agreed, but my money was income taxed at source, I paid VAT on purchase. So why should I get penalised on this. (see also, inheritance tax...same deal) They are different taxes. The money needs to be raised one way or another. And thereโs a reasonably good argument for 100% inheritance tax. Well, seeing as how we're here and all, I'd like to hear that argument. Wouldn't it effectively suggest that ownership of anything was only temporary, valid for the life of the purchaser?
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marquis
New Member
๐จ๏ธ 67
๐๐ป 50
January 2020
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Banksy Owners! How do you intend to avoid capital gains tax?, by marquis on Mar 16, 2021 19:10:54 GMT 1, So do most people on here pay it or chance their luck?
Seems very difficult to enforce - a print, say, bought nearly two decades ago in cash...
So do most people on here pay it or chance their luck?
Seems very difficult to enforce - a print, say, bought nearly two decades ago in cash...
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Hubble Bubble
Junior Member
๐จ๏ธ 4,117
๐๐ป 3,567
December 2010
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Banksy Owners! How do you intend to avoid capital gains tax?, by Hubble Bubble on Mar 16, 2021 19:15:19 GMT 1, So do most people on here pay it or chance their luck? Seems very difficult to enforce - a print, say, bought nearly two decades ago in cash... It's not so much the purchase time and method that is the issue, I think it's more the sell price and the sudden appearance of (potentially) tens of thousands of pounds in a bank account. If HMRC get wind of that they will want to know where that money came from and the seller will have to tell them. They'll then need to tell them what they bought the print for and when.
So do most people on here pay it or chance their luck? Seems very difficult to enforce - a print, say, bought nearly two decades ago in cash... It's not so much the purchase time and method that is the issue, I think it's more the sell price and the sudden appearance of (potentially) tens of thousands of pounds in a bank account. If HMRC get wind of that they will want to know where that money came from and the seller will have to tell them. They'll then need to tell them what they bought the print for and when.
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Rubberneck
Junior Member
๐จ๏ธ 1,050
๐๐ป 1,433
October 2018
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Banksy Owners! How do you intend to avoid capital gains tax?, by Rubberneck on Mar 16, 2021 19:31:25 GMT 1, Any bank transfer over 9999 is automatically reported to HMRC. Also if the buyer is an institution or gallery they may be audited and then if itโs within 7 years youโll get a knock on the door. There are lots of legal methods to reduce tax, offshore, there are also payments in btc .. but youโll pay tax on any profits on that too.
Any bank transfer over 9999 is automatically reported to HMRC. Also if the buyer is an institution or gallery they may be audited and then if itโs within 7 years youโll get a knock on the door. There are lots of legal methods to reduce tax, offshore, there are also payments in btc .. but youโll pay tax on any profits on that too.
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Graham H
Junior Member
๐จ๏ธ 2,304
๐๐ป 2,417
November 2012
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Banksy Owners! How do you intend to avoid capital gains tax?, by Graham H on Mar 16, 2021 19:35:48 GMT 1, Im sorry.. but there is no argument at all for 100% inheritance tax
Agreed, but my money was income taxed at source, I paid VAT on purchase. So why should I get penalised on this. (see also, inheritance tax...same deal) They are different taxes. The money needs to be raised one way or another. And thereโs a reasonably good argument for 100% inheritance tax.
Im sorry.. but there is no argument at all for 100% inheritance tax Agreed, but my money was income taxed at source, I paid VAT on purchase. So why should I get penalised on this. (see also, inheritance tax...same deal) They are different taxes. The money needs to be raised one way or another. And thereโs a reasonably good argument for 100% inheritance tax.
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