sgolby
Junior Member
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November 2012
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Banksy Bristol TShirt • Colston Four, by sgolby on Dec 20, 2021 10:46:03 GMT 1, So awesome seeing regular folks (not us forum twats) enjoying wearing the t-shirts while drinking and having a bunch of laughs!!
So awesome seeing regular folks (not us forum twats) enjoying wearing the t-shirts while drinking and having a bunch of laughs!!
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Banksy Bristol TShirt • Colston Four, by stillborncrisps on Dec 20, 2021 13:27:27 GMT 1, I'm curious at the seemingly deliberate wording Banksy used, 'all proceeds to the defendants so they can go for a pint'.
It seems different to other times he's helped people with legal wranglings (eg those Russian guys, Voina, who defaced the bridge in St Petersburg).
Would there be some issue for him (or the Colston 4) if he'd have put 'all proceeds go towards their legal costs'? Maybe they are getting Legal Aid and direct contributions would upset that? Or does it just keep him comfortably at arms length from the issue?
I'm curious at the seemingly deliberate wording Banksy used, 'all proceeds to the defendants so they can go for a pint'.
It seems different to other times he's helped people with legal wranglings (eg those Russian guys, Voina, who defaced the bridge in St Petersburg).
Would there be some issue for him (or the Colston 4) if he'd have put 'all proceeds go towards their legal costs'? Maybe they are getting Legal Aid and direct contributions would upset that? Or does it just keep him comfortably at arms length from the issue?
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pr.yu
New Member
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June 2017
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Banksy Bristol TShirt • Colston Four, by pr.yu on Dec 20, 2021 13:45:04 GMT 1, I'm curious at the seemingly deliberate wording Banksy used, 'all proceeds to the defendants so they can go for a pint'. It seems different to other times he's helped people with legal wranglings (eg those Russian guys, Voina, who defaced the bridge in St Petersburg). Would there be some issue for him (or the Colston 4) if he'd have put 'all proceeds go towards their legal costs'? Maybe they are getting Legal Aid and direct contributions would upset that? Or does it just keep him comfortably at arms length from the issue?
Can't go for a pint if you're in prison.
I'm curious at the seemingly deliberate wording Banksy used, 'all proceeds to the defendants so they can go for a pint'. It seems different to other times he's helped people with legal wranglings (eg those Russian guys, Voina, who defaced the bridge in St Petersburg). Would there be some issue for him (or the Colston 4) if he'd have put 'all proceeds go towards their legal costs'? Maybe they are getting Legal Aid and direct contributions would upset that? Or does it just keep him comfortably at arms length from the issue? Can't go for a pint if you're in prison. |
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Atelier
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June 2014
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Banksy Bristol TShirt • Colston Four, by Atelier on Dec 20, 2021 15:25:43 GMT 1, I have to admit, I am on the side of Pritti Patel. I think she is an arrogant, obnoxious person but, in this particular case, she is right. Whatever your views are, you can not have people doing whatever they like to public monuments. What's next? Anti-feminists destroying the statue of Emmeline Pankhurst? Feminists destroying the statue of Ghandi because he wasn't vey nice to his wife? French people pulling down Nelson's Column because it perpetuates British hubris and anti-french feeling? Where does all this end?
The statue of Ghandi and Nelson's Column can hardly be compared to a statue representing racism, slavery and the murder of 1000's of innocent humans treated in the most disgusting way imaginable - based on race.
If Pritti Patel did not want this to happen - the government should of removed this insensitive representation of racism a long time ago. The statue deserved to be thrown in the river / destroyed. These global protests have shifted equality and helped make the world a better place.
I have to admit, I am on the side of Pritti Patel. I think she is an arrogant, obnoxious person but, in this particular case, she is right. Whatever your views are, you can not have people doing whatever they like to public monuments. What's next? Anti-feminists destroying the statue of Emmeline Pankhurst? Feminists destroying the statue of Ghandi because he wasn't vey nice to his wife? French people pulling down Nelson's Column because it perpetuates British hubris and anti-french feeling? Where does all this end? The statue of Ghandi and Nelson's Column can hardly be compared to a statue representing racism, slavery and the murder of 1000's of innocent humans treated in the most disgusting way imaginable - based on race. If Pritti Patel did not want this to happen - the government should of removed this insensitive representation of racism a long time ago. The statue deserved to be thrown in the river / destroyed. These global protests have shifted equality and helped make the world a better place. |
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Fairxat
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May 2013
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Banksy Bristol TShirt • Colston Four, by Fairxat on Dec 20, 2021 18:33:56 GMT 1, I have to admit, I am on the side of Pritti Patel. I think she is an arrogant, obnoxious person but, in this particular case, she is right. Whatever your views are, you can not have people doing whatever they like to public monuments. What's next? Anti-feminists destroying the statue of Emmeline Pankhurst? Feminists destroying the statue of Ghandi because he wasn't vey nice to his wife? French people pulling down Nelson's Column because it perpetuates British hubris and anti-french feeling? Where does all this end? The statue of Ghandi and Nelson's Column can hardly be compared to a statue representing racism, slavery and the murder of 1000's of innocent humans treated in the most disgusting way imaginable - based on race. If Pritti Patel did not want this to happen - the government should of removed this insensitive representation of racism a long time ago. The statue deserved to be thrown in the river / destroyed. These global protests have shifted equality and helped make the world a better place.
There were legal challenges and requests made numerous times to the local council to remove the item over decades but all requests ignored.
These representations of inhuman acts should of been removed many years ago.
All this past history that was never discussed openly is now widely open for debate as of the internet, only people keen on the history previously would be aware of the issues but the general public were blind to the issues ,the past can no longer be swept under the carpet and forgotten.
Although right in the removal, the way it was removed was wrong
And with more lockdowns likely and social order on a tightrope, this case may be set as an example
Protests are likely to be numerous
www.google.com/amp/s/www.mylondon.news/news/zone-1-news/anti-lockdown-protest-live-updates-22505881.amp
thebristolcable.org/2021/12/colston-heavily-involved-in-britains-most-prolific-slave-trading-company-david-olusoga-tells-statue-toppling-trial/?fbclid=IwAR16hAev-UIL6FbdcTK9qlGpe3r3M_BklT9kFeoQ4tCj9rxfgVXnA_5yR6Y
www.npr.org/2019/10/02/766083651/gandhi-is-deeply-revered-but-his-attitudes-on-race-and-sex-are-under-scrutiny?t=1640023765238
I have to admit, I am on the side of Pritti Patel. I think she is an arrogant, obnoxious person but, in this particular case, she is right. Whatever your views are, you can not have people doing whatever they like to public monuments. What's next? Anti-feminists destroying the statue of Emmeline Pankhurst? Feminists destroying the statue of Ghandi because he wasn't vey nice to his wife? French people pulling down Nelson's Column because it perpetuates British hubris and anti-french feeling? Where does all this end? The statue of Ghandi and Nelson's Column can hardly be compared to a statue representing racism, slavery and the murder of 1000's of innocent humans treated in the most disgusting way imaginable - based on race. If Pritti Patel did not want this to happen - the government should of removed this insensitive representation of racism a long time ago. The statue deserved to be thrown in the river / destroyed. These global protests have shifted equality and helped make the world a better place. There were legal challenges and requests made numerous times to the local council to remove the item over decades but all requests ignored. These representations of inhuman acts should of been removed many years ago. All this past history that was never discussed openly is now widely open for debate as of the internet, only people keen on the history previously would be aware of the issues but the general public were blind to the issues ,the past can no longer be swept under the carpet and forgotten. Although right in the removal, the way it was removed was wrong And with more lockdowns likely and social order on a tightrope, this case may be set as an example Protests are likely to be numerous www.google.com/amp/s/www.mylondon.news/news/zone-1-news/anti-lockdown-protest-live-updates-22505881.ampthebristolcable.org/2021/12/colston-heavily-involved-in-britains-most-prolific-slave-trading-company-david-olusoga-tells-statue-toppling-trial/?fbclid=IwAR16hAev-UIL6FbdcTK9qlGpe3r3M_BklT9kFeoQ4tCj9rxfgVXnA_5yR6Ywww.npr.org/2019/10/02/766083651/gandhi-is-deeply-revered-but-his-attitudes-on-race-and-sex-are-under-scrutiny?t=1640023765238 |
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vandamme
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May 2019
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Banksy Bristol TShirt • Colston Four, by vandamme on Dec 20, 2021 20:37:08 GMT 1, Governments have been manipulating people for decades and not just in our life time and In my opinion the last year is no different to any other year we have had in terms of government manipulation.
I was speaking with Rhian one of the colston 4 yesterday and the trail is going extremely well and in there favour. I don’t think Priti can manipulate things at this stage. the government has manipulated the public a lot in the past year
Governments have been manipulating people for decades and not just in our life time and In my opinion the last year is no different to any other year we have had in terms of government manipulation. I was speaking with Rhian one of the colston 4 yesterday and the trail is going extremely well and in there favour. I don’t think Priti can manipulate things at this stage. the government has manipulated the public a lot in the past year |
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Fairxat
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May 2013
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Banksy Bristol TShirt • Colston Four, by Fairxat on Dec 20, 2021 20:44:12 GMT 1, Governments have been manipulating people for decades and not just in our life time and In my opinion the last year is no different to any other year we have had in terms of government manipulation. the government has manipulated the public a lot in the past year
In the last two years it has been highlighted frequently and reported in the media constantly which has not been done so before
Governments have been manipulating people for decades and not just in our life time and In my opinion the last year is no different to any other year we have had in terms of government manipulation. the government has manipulated the public a lot in the past year In the last two years it has been highlighted frequently and reported in the media constantly which has not been done so before |
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vandamme
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Banksy Bristol TShirt • Colston Four, by vandamme on Dec 20, 2021 20:49:26 GMT 1, Why not? I didn’t have a problem with colston statue coming down at all along with many other people in bristol and people around the world. Just look at the positive ripple effect of various shitty monuments getting ripped down. It was historic 👏🏽👏🏽
I wonder if people were saying the same thing as you when Saddam Hussains monument was toppled in Iraq?
I have to admit, I am on the side of Pritti Patel. I think she is an arrogant, obnoxious person but, in this particular case, she is right. Whatever your views are, you can not have people doing whatever they like to public monuments. What's next? Anti-feminists destroying the statue of Emmeline Pankhurst? Feminists destroying the statue of Ghandi because he wasn't vey nice to his wife? French people pulling down Nelson's Column because it perpetuates British hubris and anti-french feeling? Where does all this end?
Why not? I didn’t have a problem with colston statue coming down at all along with many other people in bristol and people around the world. Just look at the positive ripple effect of various shitty monuments getting ripped down. It was historic 👏🏽👏🏽 I wonder if people were saying the same thing as you when Saddam Hussains monument was toppled in Iraq? I have to admit, I am on the side of Pritti Patel. I think she is an arrogant, obnoxious person but, in this particular case, she is right. Whatever your views are, you can not have people doing whatever they like to public monuments. What's next? Anti-feminists destroying the statue of Emmeline Pankhurst? Feminists destroying the statue of Ghandi because he wasn't vey nice to his wife? French people pulling down Nelson's Column because it perpetuates British hubris and anti-french feeling? Where does all this end? |
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vandamme
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May 2019
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Banksy Bristol TShirt • Colston Four, by vandamme on Dec 20, 2021 21:01:01 GMT 1, I would have to disagree it really depends on what media Chanel’s you follow. So many mp’s and presidents dating back to 60’s comes to mind when I think of government manipulation. A couple of examples are Enoch Powells Rivers of Blood speech and Ronald Reagans war on drugs
Governments have been manipulating people for decades and not just in our life time and In my opinion the last year is no different to any other year we have had in terms of government manipulation. In the last two years it has been highlighted frequently and reported in the media constantly which has not been done so before
I would have to disagree it really depends on what media Chanel’s you follow. So many mp’s and presidents dating back to 60’s comes to mind when I think of government manipulation. A couple of examples are Enoch Powells Rivers of Blood speech and Ronald Reagans war on drugs Governments have been manipulating people for decades and not just in our life time and In my opinion the last year is no different to any other year we have had in terms of government manipulation. In the last two years it has been highlighted frequently and reported in the media constantly which has not been done so before |
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Fairxat
New Member
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May 2013
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Banksy Bristol TShirt • Colston Four, by Fairxat on Dec 20, 2021 21:07:07 GMT 1, I would have to disagree it really depends on what media Chanel’s you follow. So many mp’s and presidents dating back to 60’s comes to mind when I think of government manipulation. A couple of examples are Enoch Powells Rivers of Blood speech and Ronald Reagans war on drugs In the last two years it has been highlighted frequently and reported in the media constantly which has not been done so before
Showing your age.
Most of the leaks have been from text messages and phone recordings hence social media/ modern technology has influenced the incidents reaching the public, where as governments had more control previously of leaks
I would have to disagree it really depends on what media Chanel’s you follow. So many mp’s and presidents dating back to 60’s comes to mind when I think of government manipulation. A couple of examples are Enoch Powells Rivers of Blood speech and Ronald Reagans war on drugs In the last two years it has been highlighted frequently and reported in the media constantly which has not been done so before Showing your age. Most of the leaks have been from text messages and phone recordings hence social media/ modern technology has influenced the incidents reaching the public, where as governments had more control previously of leaks |
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Deleted
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👍🏻
January 1970
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Banksy Bristol TShirt • Colston Four, by Deleted on Dec 21, 2021 23:00:21 GMT 1, Why not? I didn’t have a problem with colston statue coming down at all along with many other people in bristol and people around the world. Just look at the positive ripple effect of various shitty monuments getting ripped down. It was historic 👏🏽👏🏽 I wonder if people were saying the same thing as you when Saddam Hussains monument was toppled in Iraq? If you think being anti-slavery means you can pull down statues to your hearts content then you are misguided. If we pulled down everything connected with slavery then there probably wouldn't be any public buildings left in the centre of Bristol. It's very easy to take a leftie rebel stance like Banksy. And even easier to simply say "slavery is wrong, therefore I can do what I like." Studying philosophy at Uni has made me very wary of simplistic knee-jerk reactions like this.
I like statements being made by people. i don't agree with 'every' statue being pulled down. however, I think they made their point.
Certainly made me have a read up
Why not? I didn’t have a problem with colston statue coming down at all along with many other people in bristol and people around the world. Just look at the positive ripple effect of various shitty monuments getting ripped down. It was historic 👏🏽👏🏽 I wonder if people were saying the same thing as you when Saddam Hussains monument was toppled in Iraq? If you think being anti-slavery means you can pull down statues to your hearts content then you are misguided. If we pulled down everything connected with slavery then there probably wouldn't be any public buildings left in the centre of Bristol. It's very easy to take a leftie rebel stance like Banksy. And even easier to simply say "slavery is wrong, therefore I can do what I like." Studying philosophy at Uni has made me very wary of simplistic knee-jerk reactions like this. I like statements being made by people. i don't agree with 'every' statue being pulled down. however, I think they made their point. Certainly made me have a read up |
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Atelier
New Member
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June 2014
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Banksy Bristol TShirt • Colston Four, by Atelier on Dec 22, 2021 0:29:20 GMT 1, The statue of Ghandi and Nelson's Column can hardly be compared to a statue representing racism, slavery and the murder of 1000's of innocent humans treated in the most disgusting way imaginable - based on race. If Pritti Patel did not want this to happen - the government should of removed this insensitive representation of racism a long time ago. The statue deserved to be thrown in the river / destroyed. These global protests have shifted equality and helped make the world a better place. So you seem to be saying that it is ok to break the law for views you agree with but not for those that you disagree with. Of course everyone is against slavery. But that doesn't mean you can do what you want, because you are against slavery. I'm reminded of L. P. Hartley who said "the past is a foreign country. They do things differently there."
I'm reminded of Rosa Parks who said "To bring about change, you must not be afraid to take the first step. We will fail when we fail to try."
The statue of Ghandi and Nelson's Column can hardly be compared to a statue representing racism, slavery and the murder of 1000's of innocent humans treated in the most disgusting way imaginable - based on race. If Pritti Patel did not want this to happen - the government should of removed this insensitive representation of racism a long time ago. The statue deserved to be thrown in the river / destroyed. These global protests have shifted equality and helped make the world a better place. So you seem to be saying that it is ok to break the law for views you agree with but not for those that you disagree with. Of course everyone is against slavery. But that doesn't mean you can do what you want, because you are against slavery. I'm reminded of L. P. Hartley who said "the past is a foreign country. They do things differently there." Any statue celebrating anyone involved in slavery and the mistreatment of people based on race should be taken down. Sure - first by authorities, but if they are too ignorant to act in a timely manner then in this particular case, yes it was a justified statement of the movement. In the US the government has removed many similar statues themselves, particularly in Charleston and many southern states. I'm reminded of Rosa Parks who said "To bring about change, you must not be afraid to take the first step. We will fail when we fail to try." |
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Hairbland
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November 2010
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Banksy Bristol TShirt • Colston Four, by Hairbland on Dec 22, 2021 0:56:45 GMT 1, When’s banksy going to paint some walls again?
Still have no life, eh? Christmas coming, still a chance!
When’s banksy going to paint some walls again? Still have no life, eh? Christmas coming, still a chance! |
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vandamme
New Member
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May 2019
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Banksy Bristol TShirt • Colston Four, by vandamme on Dec 22, 2021 1:55:21 GMT 1,
Actually you are misguided I never suggested pulling down everything related to slavery and I don’t think I have ever heard anyone suggest that but I do hear those with extreme right views highlighting that all the time 🤷♂️. What you are implying would be both impractical and pointless and I’d not the issue.
I do however believe that any statues glorifying evil genocidal people traffickers like edward colston should be taken down.
I find it incredible that a statue that causes so much pain, glorifies and lies about a man who committed atrocities against humankind would actually be championed and cause upset to be removed. In addition the irony of people feeling so compelled to cry lefties and point out that vandalism is wrong but yet are forum members on platform that actually promotes artist who are predominately left, many of whom are anarchist and have carried out acts of vandalism through graffiti.
Personally if I did not agree with Banksys political views, I wouldn’t follow him and I certainly would not have joined this platform which was once called the Banksy forum
Why not? I didn’t have a problem with colston statue coming down at all along with many other people in bristol and people around the world. Just look at the positive ripple effect of various shitty monuments getting ripped down. It was historic 👏🏽👏🏽 I wonder if people were saying the same thing as you when Saddam Hussains monument was toppled in Iraq? If you think being anti-slavery means you can pull down statues to your hearts content then you are misguided. If we pulled down everything connected with slavery then there probably wouldn't be any public buildings left in the centre of Bristol. It's very easy to take a leftie rebel stance like Banksy. And even easier to simply say "slavery is wrong, therefore I can do what I like." Studying philosophy at Uni has made me very wary of simplistic knee-jerk reactions like this.
Actually you are misguided I never suggested pulling down everything related to slavery and I don’t think I have ever heard anyone suggest that but I do hear those with extreme right views highlighting that all the time 🤷♂️. What you are implying would be both impractical and pointless and I’d not the issue. I do however believe that any statues glorifying evil genocidal people traffickers like edward colston should be taken down. I find it incredible that a statue that causes so much pain, glorifies and lies about a man who committed atrocities against humankind would actually be championed and cause upset to be removed. In addition the irony of people feeling so compelled to cry lefties and point out that vandalism is wrong but yet are forum members on platform that actually promotes artist who are predominately left, many of whom are anarchist and have carried out acts of vandalism through graffiti. Personally if I did not agree with Banksys political views, I wouldn’t follow him and I certainly would not have joined this platform which was once called the Banksy forum Why not? I didn’t have a problem with colston statue coming down at all along with many other people in bristol and people around the world. Just look at the positive ripple effect of various shitty monuments getting ripped down. It was historic 👏🏽👏🏽 I wonder if people were saying the same thing as you when Saddam Hussains monument was toppled in Iraq? If you think being anti-slavery means you can pull down statues to your hearts content then you are misguided. If we pulled down everything connected with slavery then there probably wouldn't be any public buildings left in the centre of Bristol. It's very easy to take a leftie rebel stance like Banksy. And even easier to simply say "slavery is wrong, therefore I can do what I like." Studying philosophy at Uni has made me very wary of simplistic knee-jerk reactions like this. |
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Reader
Junior Member
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June 2016
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Banksy Bristol TShirt • Colston Four, by Reader on Dec 22, 2021 2:12:11 GMT 1, Actually you are misguided I never suggested pulling down everything related to slavery and I don’t think I have ever heard anyone suggest that but I do hear those with extreme right views highlighting that all the time 🤷♂️. What you are implying would be both impractical and pointless and I’d not the issue. I do however believe that any statues glorifying evil genocidal people traffickers like edward colston should be taken down. I find it incredible that a statue that causes so much pain, glorifies and lies about a man who committed atrocities against humankind would actually be championed and cause upset to be removed. In addition the irony of people feeling so compelled to cry lefties and point out that vandalism is wrong but yet are forum members on platform that actually promotes artist who are predominately left, many of whom are anarchist and have carried out acts of vandalism through graffiti. Personally if I did not agree with Banksys political views, I wouldn’t follow him and I certainly would not have joined this platform which was once called the Banksy forum If you think being anti-slavery means you can pull down statues to your hearts content then you are misguided. If we pulled down everything connected with slavery then there probably wouldn't be any public buildings left in the centre of Bristol. It's very easy to take a leftie rebel stance like Banksy. And even easier to simply say "slavery is wrong, therefore I can do what I like." Studying philosophy at Uni has made me very wary of simplistic knee-jerk reactions like this.
www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/dec/20/rightwingers-us-social-change-coming
Actually you are misguided I never suggested pulling down everything related to slavery and I don’t think I have ever heard anyone suggest that but I do hear those with extreme right views highlighting that all the time 🤷♂️. What you are implying would be both impractical and pointless and I’d not the issue. I do however believe that any statues glorifying evil genocidal people traffickers like edward colston should be taken down. I find it incredible that a statue that causes so much pain, glorifies and lies about a man who committed atrocities against humankind would actually be championed and cause upset to be removed. In addition the irony of people feeling so compelled to cry lefties and point out that vandalism is wrong but yet are forum members on platform that actually promotes artist who are predominately left, many of whom are anarchist and have carried out acts of vandalism through graffiti. Personally if I did not agree with Banksys political views, I wouldn’t follow him and I certainly would not have joined this platform which was once called the Banksy forum If you think being anti-slavery means you can pull down statues to your hearts content then you are misguided. If we pulled down everything connected with slavery then there probably wouldn't be any public buildings left in the centre of Bristol. It's very easy to take a leftie rebel stance like Banksy. And even easier to simply say "slavery is wrong, therefore I can do what I like." Studying philosophy at Uni has made me very wary of simplistic knee-jerk reactions like this. Well said mate, the author Rebecca Solnit has a piece in The Guardian today which covers this topic. Well worth anyone's time. Really puts things into context and the first article that I've read that captures the positive direction of all these actions. www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/dec/20/rightwingers-us-social-change-coming |
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ubl
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November 2019
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Banksy Bristol TShirt • Colston Four, by ubl on Dec 22, 2021 2:13:43 GMT 1, Why not? I didn’t have a problem with colston statue coming down at all along with many other people in bristol and people around the world. Just look at the positive ripple effect of various shitty monuments getting ripped down. It was historic 👏🏽👏🏽 I wonder if people were saying the same thing as you when Saddam Hussains monument was toppled in Iraq? If you think being anti-slavery means you can pull down statues to your hearts content then you are misguided. If we pulled down everything connected with slavery then there probably wouldn't be any public buildings left in the centre of Bristol. It's very easy to take a leftie rebel stance like Banksy. And even easier to simply say "slavery is wrong, therefore I can do what I like." Studying philosophy at Uni has made me very wary of simplistic knee-jerk reactions like this.
Why not? I didn’t have a problem with colston statue coming down at all along with many other people in bristol and people around the world. Just look at the positive ripple effect of various shitty monuments getting ripped down. It was historic 👏🏽👏🏽 I wonder if people were saying the same thing as you when Saddam Hussains monument was toppled in Iraq? If you think being anti-slavery means you can pull down statues to your hearts content then you are misguided. If we pulled down everything connected with slavery then there probably wouldn't be any public buildings left in the centre of Bristol. It's very easy to take a leftie rebel stance like Banksy. And even easier to simply say "slavery is wrong, therefore I can do what I like." Studying philosophy at Uni has made me very wary of simplistic knee-jerk reactions like this. I think the idea is more which persons do you want to idolize, because thats what a statue is isn't it? I dont know what you idolize, and which ideals you support, but I think they should be allowed to choose if a statue of a slave trader is in their city. Things change, maybe you should too. |
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dirtypete
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September 2006
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Banksy Bristol TShirt • Colston Four, by dirtypete on Dec 22, 2021 9:49:10 GMT 1, I thought that the ripping down of the Coulson was a brilliant act of defiance, however mob rule should not be the standard ways in which a democratic society makes such decisions.
When people reference the ripping down of other structures linked to slavery they are highlighting the many modern institutions are built off the profits. The removal of status is largely symbolic, would people also be prepared to pay reparations payment if this lead to a considerable drop in living standards? While for some people the answers is yes, I doubt this is true for the vast majority of people.
I’m always perplexed why people say that people who don’t follow Banksys political beliefs have no right to enjoy his work or frequent and urban art forum. Most of Banksy’s recent political activity seem to be publicity stunts.
There was always going to be a huge demand for these T-shirts. Why not do a much larger run and sell them globally creating huge profits for charity. Instead they do a limited run to create a healthy secondary market. Banksys capitalist ways are exactly in keeping with this forums obsession with the monetary value of art.
I thought that the ripping down of the Coulson was a brilliant act of defiance, however mob rule should not be the standard ways in which a democratic society makes such decisions.
When people reference the ripping down of other structures linked to slavery they are highlighting the many modern institutions are built off the profits. The removal of status is largely symbolic, would people also be prepared to pay reparations payment if this lead to a considerable drop in living standards? While for some people the answers is yes, I doubt this is true for the vast majority of people.
I’m always perplexed why people say that people who don’t follow Banksys political beliefs have no right to enjoy his work or frequent and urban art forum. Most of Banksy’s recent political activity seem to be publicity stunts.
There was always going to be a huge demand for these T-shirts. Why not do a much larger run and sell them globally creating huge profits for charity. Instead they do a limited run to create a healthy secondary market. Banksys capitalist ways are exactly in keeping with this forums obsession with the monetary value of art.
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vandamme
New Member
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May 2019
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Banksy Bristol TShirt • Colston Four, by vandamme on Dec 22, 2021 10:55:56 GMT 1, Unfortunately people have been petitioning the correct way for the statue to come down for decades. Nothing was done to either remove it or tell Colstons true legacy.
Regarding reparations, I would not have a problem with reparations, I’ve been paying off the slave owners for most of my life along with my parents and every other tax payer I know in the U.K.
What form reparations should be in is another discussion. Also reparations should come from those big cooperations which have benefited from the proceeds of the trans Atlantic people trafficking, those companies and family’s are still flourishing from it.
What I find alarming is the negative focus on reparations and the little focus on the fact that we have been paying off slave owners for over 100 years for their loss of earnings due to the abolishment of slavery.
I thought that the ripping down of the Coulson was a brilliant act of defiance, however mob rule should not be the standard ways in which a democratic society makes such decisions. When people reference the ripping down of other structures linked to slavery they are highlighting the many modern institutions are built off the profits. The removal of status is largely symbolic, would people also be prepared to pay reparations payment if this lead to a considerable drop in living standards? While for some people the answers is yes, I doubt this is true for the vast majority of people. I’m always perplexed why people say that people who don’t follow Banksys political belieFor Salehave no right to enjoy his work or frequent and urban art forum. Most of Banksy’s recent political activity seem to be publicity stunts. There was always going to be a huge demand for these T-shirts. Why not do a much larger run and sell them globally creating huge profits for charity. Instead they do a limited run to create a healthy secondary market. Banksys capitalist ways are exactly in keeping with this forums obsession with the monetary value of art.
Unfortunately people have been petitioning the correct way for the statue to come down for decades. Nothing was done to either remove it or tell Colstons true legacy. Regarding reparations, I would not have a problem with reparations, I’ve been paying off the slave owners for most of my life along with my parents and every other tax payer I know in the U.K. What form reparations should be in is another discussion. Also reparations should come from those big cooperations which have benefited from the proceeds of the trans Atlantic people trafficking, those companies and family’s are still flourishing from it. What I find alarming is the negative focus on reparations and the little focus on the fact that we have been paying off slave owners for over 100 years for their loss of earnings due to the abolishment of slavery. I thought that the ripping down of the Coulson was a brilliant act of defiance, however mob rule should not be the standard ways in which a democratic society makes such decisions. When people reference the ripping down of other structures linked to slavery they are highlighting the many modern institutions are built off the profits. The removal of status is largely symbolic, would people also be prepared to pay reparations payment if this lead to a considerable drop in living standards? While for some people the answers is yes, I doubt this is true for the vast majority of people. I’m always perplexed why people say that people who don’t follow Banksys political belieFor Salehave no right to enjoy his work or frequent and urban art forum. Most of Banksy’s recent political activity seem to be publicity stunts. There was always going to be a huge demand for these T-shirts. Why not do a much larger run and sell them globally creating huge profits for charity. Instead they do a limited run to create a healthy secondary market. Banksys capitalist ways are exactly in keeping with this forums obsession with the monetary value of art. |
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dirtypete
New Member
🗨️ 182
👍🏻 258
September 2006
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Banksy Bristol TShirt • Colston Four, by dirtypete on Dec 22, 2021 14:23:27 GMT 1, Unfortunately people have been petitioning the correct way for the statue to come down for decades. Nothing was done to either remove it or tell Colstons true legacy. Regarding reparations, I would not have a problem with reparations, I’ve been paying off the slave owners for most of my life along with my parents and every other tax payer I know in the U.K. What form reparations should be in is another discussion. Also reparations should come from those big cooperations which have benefited from the proceeds of the trans Atlantic people trafficking, those companies and family’s are still flourishing from it. What I find alarming is the negative focus on reparations and the little focus on the fact that we have been paying off slave owners for over 100 years for their loss of earnings due to the abolishment of slavery. I thought that the ripping down of the Coulson was a brilliant act of defiance, however mob rule should not be the standard ways in which a democratic society makes such decisions. When people reference the ripping down of other structures linked to slavery they are highlighting the many modern institutions are built off the profits. The removal of status is largely symbolic, would people also be prepared to pay reparations payment if this lead to a considerable drop in living standards? While for some people the answers is yes, I doubt this is true for the vast majority of people. I’m always perplexed why people say that people who don’t follow Banksys political belieFor Salehave no right to enjoy his work or frequent and urban art forum. Most of Banksy’s recent political activity seem to be publicity stunts. There was always going to be a huge demand for these T-shirts. Why not do a much larger run and sell them globally creating huge profits for charity. Instead they do a limited run to create a healthy secondary market. Banksys capitalist ways are exactly in keeping with this forums obsession with the monetary value of art.
I agree that the debate about the Coulson statue had been progressing at a slow pace for decades. I do remember that it had taken 8 years without resolution to update the statue’s plaque discussing the history.
While the reparations paid to the slave traders are odious in the modern context it was the only way to stop the trade at the time. Being pragmatic it seems like the only option that was possible at the time.
While reparations from families and corporations who hugely profited at the time would be the equitable solution I can’t see it happening no matter how good the lobbying.
It’s hard to pinpoint how much wealth was created, although certain ports and institutions did benefit hugely. I’ve been trying to do some wider reading into the subject but it’s hard finding an unbiased historical view. A lot of the information says that the Caribbean colonies were only profitable due to huge subsidies which were used to undercut other European nations. The fact that plantation owners were widely representative of the government at the time explains why the trade continued long after public opinion had changed.
Unfortunately people have been petitioning the correct way for the statue to come down for decades. Nothing was done to either remove it or tell Colstons true legacy. Regarding reparations, I would not have a problem with reparations, I’ve been paying off the slave owners for most of my life along with my parents and every other tax payer I know in the U.K. What form reparations should be in is another discussion. Also reparations should come from those big cooperations which have benefited from the proceeds of the trans Atlantic people trafficking, those companies and family’s are still flourishing from it. What I find alarming is the negative focus on reparations and the little focus on the fact that we have been paying off slave owners for over 100 years for their loss of earnings due to the abolishment of slavery. I thought that the ripping down of the Coulson was a brilliant act of defiance, however mob rule should not be the standard ways in which a democratic society makes such decisions. When people reference the ripping down of other structures linked to slavery they are highlighting the many modern institutions are built off the profits. The removal of status is largely symbolic, would people also be prepared to pay reparations payment if this lead to a considerable drop in living standards? While for some people the answers is yes, I doubt this is true for the vast majority of people. I’m always perplexed why people say that people who don’t follow Banksys political belieFor Salehave no right to enjoy his work or frequent and urban art forum. Most of Banksy’s recent political activity seem to be publicity stunts. There was always going to be a huge demand for these T-shirts. Why not do a much larger run and sell them globally creating huge profits for charity. Instead they do a limited run to create a healthy secondary market. Banksys capitalist ways are exactly in keeping with this forums obsession with the monetary value of art. I agree that the debate about the Coulson statue had been progressing at a slow pace for decades. I do remember that it had taken 8 years without resolution to update the statue’s plaque discussing the history. While the reparations paid to the slave traders are odious in the modern context it was the only way to stop the trade at the time. Being pragmatic it seems like the only option that was possible at the time. While reparations from families and corporations who hugely profited at the time would be the equitable solution I can’t see it happening no matter how good the lobbying. It’s hard to pinpoint how much wealth was created, although certain ports and institutions did benefit hugely. I’ve been trying to do some wider reading into the subject but it’s hard finding an unbiased historical view. A lot of the information says that the Caribbean colonies were only profitable due to huge subsidies which were used to undercut other European nations. The fact that plantation owners were widely representative of the government at the time explains why the trade continued long after public opinion had changed. |
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ubl
New Member
🗨️ 362
👍🏻 301
November 2019
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Banksy Bristol TShirt • Colston Four, by ubl on Dec 22, 2021 14:28:42 GMT 1, Any statue celebrating anyone involved in slavery and the mistreatment of people based on race should be taken down. Sure - first by authorities, but if they are too ignorant to act in a timely manner then in this particular case, yes it was a justified statement of the movement. In the US the government has removed many similar statues themselves, particularly in Charleston and many southern states. I'm reminded of Rosa Parks who said "To bring about change, you must not be afraid to take the first step. We will fail when we fail to try." "Any statue celebrating anyone involved in slavery and the mistreatment of people based on race should be taken down." Really? So basically, any statue of any person who lived more than about 100 years ago needs to be demolished. Racism was ubiquitous and the majority view up until very recently. In fact, so was slavery. Vicars' wives owned slaves. The whole of Bristol and Liverpool befitted vastly from the slave trade and would be unrecognisable today if you removed everything connected with the slave trade. Incidentally, William Wilberforce (the slave trade abolitionist) was a racist. He campaigned in parliament against the slave trade but not against keeping slaves. He actually voted in parliament *against* freeing slaves. He thought black people were like children who needed looking after by good white folks. Do you want to pull down statues of William Wilberforce?
Maybe William had some convincing to do in parliament at a time in the world where racism was "ubiquitous and the majority view". Anyway you seem more offended that a statue of a slave trader got pulled down rather then damage being done to public property. Again dude times change, do you know how many statues got pulled down and replaced in history? No reason to get so personally offended by it. Are you from Bristol?
Any statue celebrating anyone involved in slavery and the mistreatment of people based on race should be taken down. Sure - first by authorities, but if they are too ignorant to act in a timely manner then in this particular case, yes it was a justified statement of the movement. In the US the government has removed many similar statues themselves, particularly in Charleston and many southern states. I'm reminded of Rosa Parks who said "To bring about change, you must not be afraid to take the first step. We will fail when we fail to try." "Any statue celebrating anyone involved in slavery and the mistreatment of people based on race should be taken down." Really? So basically, any statue of any person who lived more than about 100 years ago needs to be demolished. Racism was ubiquitous and the majority view up until very recently. In fact, so was slavery. Vicars' wives owned slaves. The whole of Bristol and Liverpool befitted vastly from the slave trade and would be unrecognisable today if you removed everything connected with the slave trade. Incidentally, William Wilberforce (the slave trade abolitionist) was a racist. He campaigned in parliament against the slave trade but not against keeping slaves. He actually voted in parliament *against* freeing slaves. He thought black people were like children who needed looking after by good white folks. Do you want to pull down statues of William Wilberforce? Maybe William had some convincing to do in parliament at a time in the world where racism was "ubiquitous and the majority view". Anyway you seem more offended that a statue of a slave trader got pulled down rather then damage being done to public property. Again dude times change, do you know how many statues got pulled down and replaced in history? No reason to get so personally offended by it. Are you from Bristol? |
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Fairxat
New Member
🗨️ 464
👍🏻 127
May 2013
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dirtypete
New Member
🗨️ 182
👍🏻 258
September 2006
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Banksy Bristol TShirt • Colston Four, by dirtypete on Dec 22, 2021 17:25:46 GMT 1, br][/quote]Your first point is certainly possible. But just to be clear, I am not particularly offended by the taking down of statues. I am more offended by Banksy who throws shedloads of cash at a bunch of yobs who think they can destroy public property with impunity because, hey, slavery is bad. Yeah, thanks for that, I would never have realised that slavery is bad if Banksy hasn't told me and a bunch of people hasn't vandalised and tried to destroy public property. I wonder what's next. People destroying the statue of Florence Nightingale because she did not stand up for trans rights during the Crimea war. Remember, you heard it here first. [/quote]
If you can show me some historical evidence that Florence Nightingale didn’t stand up for trans rights I’ll destroy the statue myself!
You’re clearly just trying to get a rise out of people who are a least providing valid points. I hope you don’t do this in the real world, as it’s quite sad.
br][/quote]Your first point is certainly possible. But just to be clear, I am not particularly offended by the taking down of statues. I am more offended by Banksy who throws shedloads of cash at a bunch of yobs who think they can destroy public property with impunity because, hey, slavery is bad. Yeah, thanks for that, I would never have realised that slavery is bad if Banksy hasn't told me and a bunch of people hasn't vandalised and tried to destroy public property. I wonder what's next. People destroying the statue of Florence Nightingale because she did not stand up for trans rights during the Crimea war. Remember, you heard it here first. [/quote]
If you can show me some historical evidence that Florence Nightingale didn’t stand up for trans rights I’ll destroy the statue myself!
You’re clearly just trying to get a rise out of people who are a least providing valid points. I hope you don’t do this in the real world, as it’s quite sad.
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Banksy Bristol TShirt • Colston Four, by Lunch Special on Dec 22, 2021 18:05:54 GMT 1, I got a pot Angel print for a tshirt.
I got a pot Angel print for a tshirt.
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Banksy Bristol TShirt • Colston Four, by Lroy on Dec 22, 2021 20:10:56 GMT 1, I got a pot Angel print for a tshirt. Me too, I would offer I don't know what or how much for one of these tees... Real one, of course. With the songs, beers and sweat, of course ! As In the pubs !
Long live Bristol !
I got a pot Angel print for a tshirt. Me too, I would offer I don't know what or how much for one of these tees... Real one, of course. With the songs, beers and sweat, of course ! As In the pubs !
Long live Bristol !
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Fairxat
New Member
🗨️ 464
👍🏻 127
May 2013
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Banksy Bristol TShirt • Colston Four, by Fairxat on Dec 22, 2021 22:02:48 GMT 1, Displays that it’s just the public relations that count to score points by the amount of meaningless discussion/ debate around the issue and just the value of the t shirts, same with the walled off hotel
Displays that it’s just the public relations that count to score points by the amount of meaningless discussion/ debate around the issue and just the value of the t shirts, same with the walled off hotel
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Fairxat
New Member
🗨️ 464
👍🏻 127
May 2013
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Banksy Bristol TShirt • Colston Four, by Fairxat on Dec 22, 2021 22:03:16 GMT 1, Displays that it’s just the public relations that count to score points by the amount of meaningless discussion/ debate around the issue and just the value of the t shirts, same with the walled off hotel
Displays that it’s just the public relations that count to score points by the amount of meaningless discussion/ debate around the issue and just the value of the t shirts, same with the walled off hotel
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Atelier
New Member
🗨️ 169
👍🏻 125
June 2014
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Banksy Bristol TShirt • Colston Four, by Atelier on Dec 23, 2021 8:26:59 GMT 1, Any statue celebrating anyone involved in slavery and the mistreatment of people based on race should be taken down. Sure - first by authorities, but if they are too ignorant to act in a timely manner then in this particular case, yes it was a justified statement of the movement. In the US the government has removed many similar statues themselves, particularly in Charleston and many southern states. I'm reminded of Rosa Parks who said "To bring about change, you must not be afraid to take the first step. We will fail when we fail to try." "Any statue celebrating anyone involved in slavery and the mistreatment of people based on race should be taken down." Really? So basically, any statue of any person who lived more than about 100 years ago needs to be demolished. Racism was ubiquitous and the majority view up until very recently. In fact, so was slavery. Vicars' wives owned slaves. The whole of Bristol and Liverpool befitted vastly from the slave trade and would be unrecognisable today if you removed everything connected with the slave trade. Incidentally, William Wilberforce (the slave trade abolitionist) was a racist. He campaigned in parliament against the slave trade but not against keeping slaves. He actually voted in parliament *against* freeing slaves. He thought black people were like children who needed looking after by good white folks. Do you want to pull down statues of William Wilberforce?
Perhaps you can hit up Gloria Daniel too to share your dissatisfaction that these "hooligans" took the law into their own hands:
www.bristolpost.co.uk/news/bristol-news/ancestor-slave-tells-jury-colston-6385214
Thanks for the history lesson on statues of the world by the way. Nothing beats a Philosophy graduates skill of arguing until the end of time. I'll check back into this thread in 10 years time to see how it's all going for you. 😴
Any statue celebrating anyone involved in slavery and the mistreatment of people based on race should be taken down. Sure - first by authorities, but if they are too ignorant to act in a timely manner then in this particular case, yes it was a justified statement of the movement. In the US the government has removed many similar statues themselves, particularly in Charleston and many southern states. I'm reminded of Rosa Parks who said "To bring about change, you must not be afraid to take the first step. We will fail when we fail to try." "Any statue celebrating anyone involved in slavery and the mistreatment of people based on race should be taken down." Really? So basically, any statue of any person who lived more than about 100 years ago needs to be demolished. Racism was ubiquitous and the majority view up until very recently. In fact, so was slavery. Vicars' wives owned slaves. The whole of Bristol and Liverpool befitted vastly from the slave trade and would be unrecognisable today if you removed everything connected with the slave trade. Incidentally, William Wilberforce (the slave trade abolitionist) was a racist. He campaigned in parliament against the slave trade but not against keeping slaves. He actually voted in parliament *against* freeing slaves. He thought black people were like children who needed looking after by good white folks. Do you want to pull down statues of William Wilberforce? Perhaps you can hit up Gloria Daniel too to share your dissatisfaction that these "hooligans" took the law into their own hands: www.bristolpost.co.uk/news/bristol-news/ancestor-slave-tells-jury-colston-6385214Thanks for the history lesson on statues of the world by the way. Nothing beats a Philosophy graduates skill of arguing until the end of time. I'll check back into this thread in 10 years time to see how it's all going for you. 😴 |
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rockbeer
New Member
🗨️ 364
👍🏻 445
May 2006
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Banksy Bristol TShirt • Colston Four, by rockbeer on Dec 23, 2021 9:42:09 GMT 1, Cant erase history that easily.
I don’t think anyone is trying to erase history, and anyway, the idea is absurd. History is what happened - that can’t be erased. It is academic history, as generally told, taught and learned, which has erased large parts of actual history by failing to include the stories of those who suffered at the hands of people like Colston.
What people are trying to do is recontextualise history, by removing symbols that glorify people such as Colston and thereby drawing attention to those whose experiences have been minimised and ignored.
Even prosecution witnesses at the current trial admit that history, in its entirety, is better-served by the statue in its new fully-contextualised location than when it towered over Bristol on its plinth, a giant up-yours to both those who suffered and their descendants.
Cant erase history that easily. I don’t think anyone is trying to erase history, and anyway, the idea is absurd. History is what happened - that can’t be erased. It is academic history, as generally told, taught and learned, which has erased large parts of actual history by failing to include the stories of those who suffered at the hands of people like Colston. What people are trying to do is recontextualise history, by removing symbols that glorify people such as Colston and thereby drawing attention to those whose experiences have been minimised and ignored. Even prosecution witnesses at the current trial admit that history, in its entirety, is better-served by the statue in its new fully-contextualised location than when it towered over Bristol on its plinth, a giant up-yours to both those who suffered and their descendants. |
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Banksy Bristol TShirt • Colston Four, by Rouen Cathedral on Dec 24, 2021 4:00:58 GMT 1, When’s banksy going to paint some walls again? Still have no life, eh? Christmas coming, still a chance!
You prefer your artists not to create art???
Sad.
Really got your Brainwashed.
When’s banksy going to paint some walls again? Still have no life, eh? Christmas coming, still a chance! You prefer your artists not to create art??? Sad. Really got your Brainwashed. |
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