thebank
New Member
Posts โข 41
Likes โข 2
April 2006
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idea
Apr 13, 2006 15:22:52 GMT 1
idea, by thebank on Apr 13, 2006 15:22:52 GMT 1, Whoever runs this site, can you get in contact with me . . . I have an idea I'd like to discuss. Thanks.
Whoever runs this site, can you get in contact with me . . . I have an idea I'd like to discuss. Thanks.
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idea
Apr 13, 2006 17:46:34 GMT 1
idea, by Daniel Silk on Apr 13, 2006 17:46:34 GMT 1, Yep, I have just sent you a message
Yep, I have just sent you a message
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thebank
New Member
Posts โข 41
Likes โข 2
April 2006
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idea
Apr 14, 2006 14:20:26 GMT 1
idea, by thebank on Apr 14, 2006 14:20:26 GMT 1, I have an idea that could really benefit the Banksy market and think you are the man to implement it due to this site. I'm forever getting more annoyed with ebay for the Banksy market. It was good in the beginning but I don't think the future lies with it. Not only is it full of a load of rubbish that people are trying to palm off as Banksy work but its an expensive, unsafe and unnecessary way to sell Banksy work.
What I would like to see is something that could not only benefit everyone here interested in Banksy but something that in essence could revolutionise the art world. Its a really exciting concept that could have great implications in future. I haven't fully explored all the options yet though, hence brainstorming here with you (and anyone else who wants to get involved). It is an idea I have toyed with for a while now but want to put it to you as a proposal if you have any interest to take it further.
What I propose is some form of art exchange, similar in concept to a stock exchange selling shares. Because Banksy's prints are limited editions they are in effect like shares and as we see now are being traded freely between people in a number of different market places, most notably ebay.
It is not beneficial to anyone who is buying Banksy in the second hand market for this selling of his work to be spread across so many outlets. This makes it far easier to sell fakes and also people don't have a real understanding of value because they don't see all the deals being done. Also ebay is a very untrustworthy place to sell Banksy as some people here will already have found unfortunately. It is too easy to photocopy Banksy's work and stick it on ebay with a legitimate photo and sell someone a naff ripped off print, only to default on your ebay account the next week having made hundreds of pounds. This is not necessary and my idea can limit this risk (to some extent, not totally) and make the buying/selling of Banksy's work a much better and easier process.
A central source of liquidity (sorry that's a technical term used in the trading of any asset that effectively means the amount something is traded) would be fantastic for this market. Just imagine seeing a list of all the Banksy prints on a webpage and seeing what people are currently bidding at / offering at in the market place. You can enter what you want to bid and if it is enough then you buy the pritn you want. Alternatively you can enter what you are willing to sell at and wait until you have a buyer at that price. Either that or the sale could be run like a dutch action (ie ebay) but all traded through the same channel. I think people would prefer to sell their Banksy here rather than on ebay. There are a number of options available which all need exploring but I think I have got across the rough idea. Once people trust this source of sale then most of the Banksy would be sold here and it would be negate the need for ebay. In addition to limiting the risk of buying a duff print it could also benefit from a better fee structure. Paypal could be used or a similar alternative, but the fee certainly wouldn't need to be as high as ebay's. Everyone interested in Banksy would be a winner . . . the only losers would be the people trying to cheat us out of Banksy's original work and ebay (chin up . . . they make enough money as it is).
Another part of the concept that would be great would be some sort of history of ownership of Banksy work and the knowledge that it is real and has come from a reputable source. For example, the exchange could have an agreement that it receives (or buys depending on what Steph and POW feel) certain details about the sale of each Banksy print when released into teh public for the first time. Each time the Banksy changes hands the exchange coudl record this adn then users woudl know that the print has come down the line direct from POW and does exist. This would reduce your risk of buying a print that doesn't exist as each print would have a history associated with it. Safe buyng of Banksy's work is what we are all interested, no? This would take a bit of ground work as there are a lot of Banksy out there already but I'm sure most of us would want the history of our Banksy's to be know so that if we ever needed to pay rent we could sell our work at a fair price and have its history known.
Any comments on the above much appreciated. A concept like the above would make every art dealer in the world smile. I'm fairly sure it hasn't been done before and is in the interest of every honest Banksy enthusiast. A Bansky art exchange . . . all in needs now is a name.
If anyone wishes to take this discussion further here, or off line then let me know.
Best wishes to all and have a great Easter.
thebank
I have an idea that could really benefit the Banksy market and think you are the man to implement it due to this site. I'm forever getting more annoyed with ebay for the Banksy market. It was good in the beginning but I don't think the future lies with it. Not only is it full of a load of rubbish that people are trying to palm off as Banksy work but its an expensive, unsafe and unnecessary way to sell Banksy work.
What I would like to see is something that could not only benefit everyone here interested in Banksy but something that in essence could revolutionise the art world. Its a really exciting concept that could have great implications in future. I haven't fully explored all the options yet though, hence brainstorming here with you (and anyone else who wants to get involved). It is an idea I have toyed with for a while now but want to put it to you as a proposal if you have any interest to take it further.
What I propose is some form of art exchange, similar in concept to a stock exchange selling shares. Because Banksy's prints are limited editions they are in effect like shares and as we see now are being traded freely between people in a number of different market places, most notably ebay.
It is not beneficial to anyone who is buying Banksy in the second hand market for this selling of his work to be spread across so many outlets. This makes it far easier to sell fakes and also people don't have a real understanding of value because they don't see all the deals being done. Also ebay is a very untrustworthy place to sell Banksy as some people here will already have found unfortunately. It is too easy to photocopy Banksy's work and stick it on ebay with a legitimate photo and sell someone a naff ripped off print, only to default on your ebay account the next week having made hundreds of pounds. This is not necessary and my idea can limit this risk (to some extent, not totally) and make the buying/selling of Banksy's work a much better and easier process.
A central source of liquidity (sorry that's a technical term used in the trading of any asset that effectively means the amount something is traded) would be fantastic for this market. Just imagine seeing a list of all the Banksy prints on a webpage and seeing what people are currently bidding at / offering at in the market place. You can enter what you want to bid and if it is enough then you buy the pritn you want. Alternatively you can enter what you are willing to sell at and wait until you have a buyer at that price. Either that or the sale could be run like a dutch action (ie ebay) but all traded through the same channel. I think people would prefer to sell their Banksy here rather than on ebay. There are a number of options available which all need exploring but I think I have got across the rough idea. Once people trust this source of sale then most of the Banksy would be sold here and it would be negate the need for ebay. In addition to limiting the risk of buying a duff print it could also benefit from a better fee structure. Paypal could be used or a similar alternative, but the fee certainly wouldn't need to be as high as ebay's. Everyone interested in Banksy would be a winner . . . the only losers would be the people trying to cheat us out of Banksy's original work and ebay (chin up . . . they make enough money as it is).
Another part of the concept that would be great would be some sort of history of ownership of Banksy work and the knowledge that it is real and has come from a reputable source. For example, the exchange could have an agreement that it receives (or buys depending on what Steph and POW feel) certain details about the sale of each Banksy print when released into teh public for the first time. Each time the Banksy changes hands the exchange coudl record this adn then users woudl know that the print has come down the line direct from POW and does exist. This would reduce your risk of buying a print that doesn't exist as each print would have a history associated with it. Safe buyng of Banksy's work is what we are all interested, no? This would take a bit of ground work as there are a lot of Banksy out there already but I'm sure most of us would want the history of our Banksy's to be know so that if we ever needed to pay rent we could sell our work at a fair price and have its history known.
Any comments on the above much appreciated. A concept like the above would make every art dealer in the world smile. I'm fairly sure it hasn't been done before and is in the interest of every honest Banksy enthusiast. A Bansky art exchange . . . all in needs now is a name.
If anyone wishes to take this discussion further here, or off line then let me know.
Best wishes to all and have a great Easter.
thebank
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idea
Apr 14, 2006 14:35:55 GMT 1
idea, by Daniel Silk on Apr 14, 2006 14:35:55 GMT 1, Sounds like a good idea
Your taking about a very big and complex website
Lets see what everyone else thinks
Sounds like a good idea Your taking about a very big and complex website Lets see what everyone else thinks
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idea
Apr 14, 2006 14:58:53 GMT 1
idea, by Daniel Silk on Apr 14, 2006 14:58:53 GMT 1, Are we really talking about a site like ebay with BUY NOW & Auctions just for Banksy and a few other artists? but with it being watched over closely by Banksy people to make sure every piece is genuine?
If so, I could make it happen but POW would need to give me approval. Don't want to upset anyone
Would people use it?
Everyone! would you?
If anyone from POW reads this, send me a message and let me know what you think
Are we really talking about a site like ebay with BUY NOW & Auctions just for Banksy and a few other artists? but with it being watched over closely by Banksy people to make sure every piece is genuine? If so, I could make it happen but POW would need to give me approval. Don't want to upset anyone Would people use it? Everyone! would you? If anyone from POW reads this, send me a message and let me know what you think
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Honest Jon
New Member
Posts โข 273
Likes โข 8
January 2006
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idea
Apr 14, 2006 15:23:54 GMT 1
idea, by Honest Jon on Apr 14, 2006 15:23:54 GMT 1, It sounds like alot of work would need to be done to get it up and going, im not sure if it would work or not. It would be nice to search through a list of items without all the crap u get on ebay. Im not sure on the database idea, I think again it would be alot of work, isnt a bad idea and im not sure POW would want to give out customers info about who bought what etc......
It sounds like alot of work would need to be done to get it up and going, im not sure if it would work or not. It would be nice to search through a list of items without all the crap u get on ebay. Im not sure on the database idea, I think again it would be alot of work, isnt a bad idea and im not sure POW would want to give out customers info about who bought what etc......
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thekevster
New Member
Posts โข 61
Likes โข 3
January 2006
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idea
Apr 14, 2006 15:32:19 GMT 1
idea, by thekevster on Apr 14, 2006 15:32:19 GMT 1, Yeah, it sounds like a huge undertaking. Surely it would be easier if POW held a register, as im sure they already kinda do?
Maybe prints could be sold with POW authenticity certificates? It would increase the administration time at POW but i'm sure would benefit the owners and security of the marketplace in future.
Yeah, it sounds like a huge undertaking. Surely it would be easier if POW held a register, as im sure they already kinda do?
Maybe prints could be sold with POW authenticity certificates? It would increase the administration time at POW but i'm sure would benefit the owners and security of the marketplace in future.
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thebank
New Member
Posts โข 41
Likes โข 2
April 2006
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idea
Apr 14, 2006 15:47:21 GMT 1
idea, by thebank on Apr 14, 2006 15:47:21 GMT 1, Thanks for the response.
Just breifly . . .
POW do keep a list. And it may be hard to get around customer confidentiality (but not impossible!). It is entirely at their discression. But at least Steph wouldn't get us calling her up every 10 minutes asking for an authentication for ebay pieces. This way she could hand the responsibility over. It would be very hard to completely guanrantee a Banksy piece, unless the seller actually sent it to a central place to be looked at adn varified. However it could easily increase the chance of getting a real one, not a fake, and reduce that risk . . . esp if each numbered print or print in general had a history attached.
Also about the website auction part of it . . . this needs more thought and knowledge. I'm not a techy but I'm sure some of you are and know more about programming than me. However we may not even need that . . . if it was run as an auction it seems relatively easy to get a front end from the internet for under ยฃ100. There are plenty auction websites to be seen on Google. I'm sure one of these could be used.
Where do you see the hard work? The IT part, the history part or the varification part?
I think you'd be suprised at how many people will like the concept. I just takes some planning. Few things that man have done in this world just happened easily, so dont' be put off by a little hard graft initially. There are obviously ways this could generate revenues for those repsonsible too. If it did work, then it could quite easily be expanded to other art markets too.
Thanks for the response.
Just breifly . . .
POW do keep a list. And it may be hard to get around customer confidentiality (but not impossible!). It is entirely at their discression. But at least Steph wouldn't get us calling her up every 10 minutes asking for an authentication for ebay pieces. This way she could hand the responsibility over. It would be very hard to completely guanrantee a Banksy piece, unless the seller actually sent it to a central place to be looked at adn varified. However it could easily increase the chance of getting a real one, not a fake, and reduce that risk . . . esp if each numbered print or print in general had a history attached.
Also about the website auction part of it . . . this needs more thought and knowledge. I'm not a techy but I'm sure some of you are and know more about programming than me. However we may not even need that . . . if it was run as an auction it seems relatively easy to get a front end from the internet for under ยฃ100. There are plenty auction websites to be seen on Google. I'm sure one of these could be used.
Where do you see the hard work? The IT part, the history part or the varification part?
I think you'd be suprised at how many people will like the concept. I just takes some planning. Few things that man have done in this world just happened easily, so dont' be put off by a little hard graft initially. There are obviously ways this could generate revenues for those repsonsible too. If it did work, then it could quite easily be expanded to other art markets too.
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idea
Apr 14, 2006 18:22:18 GMT 1
idea, by mido on Apr 14, 2006 18:22:18 GMT 1, I'm not trying to stop any sort of 'innovation' but I'm not really sure how and why it would run.
Why banksy in particular? This could be relevant to anyone / anything couldn't it?
Personally I think part of the problem is lazy people / sellers who don't keep / print out / offer a copy of the email confirmations or receipts they got with prints. Ok, there are some cases where this cannot happen, but the amount of times that nothing like this is offered and / or someone has put up a print for sale with only a stock photo on it is amazing. What sort of customer service is that? I am amazed at how many times I have to send a message asking whether / when they will put proper photos up (of the actual print, inc close-ups of the numbering and any sig) - sometimes you just get a snotty reply as well!
The idea sounds a bit like an auction house. There are already auction houses, and some of them do actually sell banksy prints and canvases. What you get with auction houses is some degree of 'expertise', reliability and come back. That's why people use them, and that's why their prices tend to be higher than other selling methods.
I think that basically you get what u pay for in life. ebay is a pretty cheap & cheerful medium. In general prices are lower on ebay exactly because there is that potential for fraudsters, copyists and idiots. Look at the prices on ebay (for banksy) and then compare them to lazinc, tomtom and auction houses.....
One big problem is POW. POW print and sell prints. They aren't there to verify, authenticate or run databases (even though they have one). Why should they be interested in what happens to them after they are sold from POW? I don't mean that is a bad way, but merely they are very busy as it is, without getting involved in something that really has little or no benefit to them. Could you imagine Woolworths being asked for all sorts of info about things they sold in the past?
The bottom line is this. If someone wants to do something and thinks it is worthwhile, then go for it. I started a fanzine aged 18 partly because I had offered to help someone I had heard was about to set one up. After no reply, I couldn't wait longer, so started one.
I'm not trying to stop any sort of 'innovation' but I'm not really sure how and why it would run. Why banksy in particular? This could be relevant to anyone / anything couldn't it? Personally I think part of the problem is lazy people / sellers who don't keep / print out / offer a copy of the email confirmations or receipts they got with prints. Ok, there are some cases where this cannot happen, but the amount of times that nothing like this is offered and / or someone has put up a print for sale with only a stock photo on it is amazing. What sort of customer service is that? I am amazed at how many times I have to send a message asking whether / when they will put proper photos up (of the actual print, inc close-ups of the numbering and any sig) - sometimes you just get a snotty reply as well! The idea sounds a bit like an auction house. There are already auction houses, and some of them do actually sell banksy prints and canvases. What you get with auction houses is some degree of 'expertise', reliability and come back. That's why people use them, and that's why their prices tend to be higher than other selling methods. I think that basically you get what u pay for in life. ebay is a pretty cheap & cheerful medium. In general prices are lower on ebay exactly because there is that potential for fraudsters, copyists and idiots. Look at the prices on ebay (for banksy) and then compare them to lazinc, tomtom and auction houses..... One big problem is POW. POW print and sell prints. They aren't there to verify, authenticate or run databases (even though they have one). Why should they be interested in what happens to them after they are sold from POW? I don't mean that is a bad way, but merely they are very busy as it is, without getting involved in something that really has little or no benefit to them. Could you imagine Woolworths being asked for all sorts of info about things they sold in the past? The bottom line is this. If someone wants to do something and thinks it is worthwhile, then go for it. I started a fanzine aged 18 partly because I had offered to help someone I had heard was about to set one up. After no reply, I couldn't wait longer, so started one.
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idea
Apr 17, 2006 11:13:05 GMT 1
idea, by monochrome on Apr 17, 2006 11:13:05 GMT 1, I personally don't see what the problem is to be honest. Trying to control the market is just wrong. I don't see that many fake prints on eBay - in fact i don't remember seeing any - fake sign posts maybe, but prints? If you don't like the look of something then stand back and let someone else take the risk - we shouldn't be policing what people do with their money.
I have around 15 prints of Banksy, and about 3 with receipts - I'd like someone to see them and tell me that they are fake. You can't unless it has no number, stamp, signature etc... if it has nothing of these then its a souvenir 'reproduction'.
It all sounds harsh, but remember, buy from Galleries at inflated prices if you want reassurance of the product - plus a 'worthless' receipt.
I personally don't see what the problem is to be honest. Trying to control the market is just wrong. I don't see that many fake prints on eBay - in fact i don't remember seeing any - fake sign posts maybe, but prints? If you don't like the look of something then stand back and let someone else take the risk - we shouldn't be policing what people do with their money.
I have around 15 prints of Banksy, and about 3 with receipts - I'd like someone to see them and tell me that they are fake. You can't unless it has no number, stamp, signature etc... if it has nothing of these then its a souvenir 'reproduction'.
It all sounds harsh, but remember, buy from Galleries at inflated prices if you want reassurance of the product - plus a 'worthless' receipt.
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idea
Apr 17, 2006 22:31:29 GMT 1
idea, by Daniel Silk on Apr 17, 2006 22:31:29 GMT 1, Yeah, I dont think we have a fake problem.
I can only remember about 3-4 clear fakes on ebay in the past, any others have been those few that had come from the printers back door, and I think we have seen the last for those.
Yeah, I dont think we have a fake problem.
I can only remember about 3-4 clear fakes on ebay in the past, any others have been those few that had come from the printers back door, and I think we have seen the last for those.
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LoveRat
New Member
Posts โข 467
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January 2006
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idea
Apr 17, 2006 22:58:43 GMT 1
idea, by LoveRat on Apr 17, 2006 22:58:43 GMT 1, No , maybe not that bad at the moment but if prices carry on going the way they are then I'm sure it would make it worthwhile for someone to start knocking out quality fakes
No , maybe not that bad at the moment but if prices carry on going the way they are then I'm sure it would make it worthwhile for someone to start knocking out quality fakes
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thebank
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Posts โข 41
Likes โข 2
April 2006
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idea
Apr 18, 2006 12:00:05 GMT 1
idea, by thebank on Apr 18, 2006 12:00:05 GMT 1, Exactly. And would you pay ยฃ1000 for a print on ebay that could be fake, or may not even exist?
For an enthusiast like BOE I think it wouldn't take much more to set up something that can help here. It does require commitment but not too much.
Is there anyone else apart from the usual suspect who have views on this topic pls?
Exactly. And would you pay ยฃ1000 for a print on ebay that could be fake, or may not even exist?
For an enthusiast like BOE I think it wouldn't take much more to set up something that can help here. It does require commitment but not too much.
Is there anyone else apart from the usual suspect who have views on this topic pls?
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idea
Apr 19, 2006 23:17:23 GMT 1
idea, by heavyweaponry on Apr 19, 2006 23:17:23 GMT 1, Nice idea,,,but we're not talking about the Footsie 100 here are we. A lot of effort for one 'stock' - just do your research before buying?....
Nice idea,,,but we're not talking about the Footsie 100 here are we. A lot of effort for one 'stock' - just do your research before buying?....
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Hairbland
Junior Member
Posts โข 2,943
Likes โข 2,733
November 2010
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idea
Sept 14, 2017 11:27:41 GMT 1
via mobile
idea, by Hairbland on Sept 14, 2017 11:27:41 GMT 1, There is a lot of cruelty in our world. Cruelty attracts attention. weedit.photos But I want beauty, tranquility and harmony. you dug up a 10 year old thread for this?
There is a lot of cruelty in our world. Cruelty attracts attention. weedit.photos But I want beauty, tranquility and harmony. you dug up a 10 year old thread for this?
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