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LAZ - Artists Careers?, by snausages on Jul 30, 2008 20:19:23 GMT 1, And how about David Choe, I've personally been told by someone who you could say is an important part of Choe's career and he told me hethinks Choes prices have been pushed too high. No surprise Laz still have a lot of inventory left. It has been said on here that Choe priced his works for Laz (although not sure if it was just prints). Anyway, I think Choe's prices were worth it!
Don't believe everything you read on the Banksy forum. It's up to the artists to a degree but not much doubt with a lot of prodding by Laz in the background. An artist can't just say they want to charge XXX amount without talking it through with the gallery unless maybe they're Hirst or someone like that.
And how about David Choe, I've personally been told by someone who you could say is an important part of Choe's career and he told me hethinks Choes prices have been pushed too high. No surprise Laz still have a lot of inventory left. It has been said on here that Choe priced his works for Laz (although not sure if it was just prints). Anyway, I think Choe's prices were worth it! Don't believe everything you read on the Banksy forum. It's up to the artists to a degree but not much doubt with a lot of prodding by Laz in the background. An artist can't just say they want to charge XXX amount without talking it through with the gallery unless maybe they're Hirst or someone like that. |
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Francis
Junior Member
Posts โข 2,571
Likes โข 137
September 2007
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LAZ - Artists Careers?, by Francis on Jul 30, 2008 20:20:02 GMT 1, He has ruined Bast's and Kelsey Brooke's careers. You NEVER hear about them anymore. It's like they've vanished from the artworld. Huh? Both as popular as ever, Bast has just had a great show - Kelsey Brookes is probably traveling the world surfing, living life to the full, check his website for all his recent works. Laz has been nothing but good for most of his artists imo but you can't get it right all the time, give him a bit of slack for f**ks sake.
Bast - that show was months ago. He has no shows scheduled AT TALL! He doesn't even have a website. All because of Laz.
Brookes - If you were David Beckham's manager and he wanted to travel the world and rollerblade, would you tell him that's a good idea? If you were Thom Yorke's manager and he wanted to travel the world and make babies, would you not advise him against it and to make music?
He has ruined Bast's and Kelsey Brooke's careers. You NEVER hear about them anymore. It's like they've vanished from the artworld. Huh? Both as popular as ever, Bast has just had a great show - Kelsey Brookes is probably traveling the world surfing, living life to the full, check his website for all his recent works. Laz has been nothing but good for most of his artists imo but you can't get it right all the time, give him a bit of slack for f**ks sake. Bast - that show was months ago. He has no shows scheduled AT TALL! He doesn't even have a website. All because of Laz. Brookes - If you were David Beckham's manager and he wanted to travel the world and rollerblade, would you tell him that's a good idea? If you were Thom Yorke's manager and he wanted to travel the world and make babies, would you not advise him against it and to make music? |
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LAZ - Artists Careers?, by ricosg11 on Jul 30, 2008 20:37:17 GMT 1, Only thing I will say here is that the LARGEST Gemeos pieces at Deitch were around 50k usd. End of argument.
Only thing I will say here is that the LARGEST Gemeos pieces at Deitch were around 50k usd. End of argument.
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LAZ - Artists Careers?, by felix on Jul 30, 2008 20:45:47 GMT 1, I will agree to disagree with you Francis. I am pretty sure that if Laz was such a cunt as you are trying to say, surely no one would want to affiliate themselves with him?
I am also pretty sure that Bast and Kelsey live pretty frickin great lives and are very happy.
Snausages - thanks, I agree and love your name.
I will agree to disagree with you Francis. I am pretty sure that if Laz was such a cunt as you are trying to say, surely no one would want to affiliate themselves with him?
I am also pretty sure that Bast and Kelsey live pretty frickin great lives and are very happy.
Snausages - thanks, I agree and love your name.
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LAZ - Artists Careers?, by ricosg11 on Jul 30, 2008 20:50:08 GMT 1, I was saying Deitch does things by the book. The right way, slow and steady and carefully. My point being that based on a 100k usd Micallef canvas a Gemeos of the same size should be at least equally priced, and thats me being generous.
I was saying Deitch does things by the book. The right way, slow and steady and carefully. My point being that based on a 100k usd Micallef canvas a Gemeos of the same size should be at least equally priced, and thats me being generous.
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LAZ - Artists Careers?, by slowmo on Jul 30, 2008 20:55:30 GMT 1, There were two bast canvas's at the outsiders first hang, both sold. There is a large Kelsey Brookes in there now with the new hang? Not sure what you mean about never hearing about them, he is displaying them actively?
There were two bast canvas's at the outsiders first hang, both sold. There is a large Kelsey Brookes in there now with the new hang? Not sure what you mean about never hearing about them, he is displaying them actively?
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LAZ - Artists Careers?, by weaver on Jul 30, 2008 22:01:35 GMT 1, I think people are much too fast to start pinning blame on people  People miss out on a print release or the prices get out of their reach and they go around slagging of the Gallery and Artist  Steve has done a great job over the last few years, and proof of that is the list of Galleries trying to emulate his model. Supply & Demand 
Silky, you set great store in protecting galleries and supporting them ( as we have seen recently), these people who are not in any way commenting on art at all are breaking pretty much every one of your new criteria, but generally seem to be allowed to continue as its Laz.
Maybe we should start another thread of which artists represented by Laz would we not have heard about without his influence?
I think people are much too fast to start pinning blame on people People miss out on a print release or the prices get out of their reach and they go around slagging of the Gallery and Artist Steve has done a great job over the last few years, and proof of that is the list of Galleries trying to emulate his model. Supply & Demand Spot on, just caught up with this thread and am astounded, in my opinion, Laz has had alot more to do with bringing alot of artists to peoples attention, many of whom we would not have paid much attention to without his promotion and stated interest. There has been a steady anti-Laz theme to several regular posters comments, fair enough if they have a personal grudge with Laz, but FFS, the queue was a year ago, if anyone feels that a bad queue is reason enough to lauch a life long vendetta against someone and their business ( which without that business, I boubt we would be enjoying the same degree of interest as we currently do), then it may be time to get out more and get a life. I had to wait a while in Tesco the other day, and someone pushed in a few folk ahead in the queue, I'm not about to spend the next couple of years boycotting and publicly decrying tesco. Silky, you set great store in protecting galleries and supporting them ( as we have seen recently), these people who are not in any way commenting on art at all are breaking pretty much every one of your new criteria, but generally seem to be allowed to continue as its Laz. Maybe we should start another thread of which artists represented by Laz would we not have heard about without his influence? |
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guest2
Junior Member
Posts โข 2,471
Likes โข 1
December 2006
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LAZ - Artists Careers?, by guest2 on Jul 30, 2008 22:10:56 GMT 1, I was saying Deitch does things by the book. The right way, slow and steady and carefully. My point being that based on a 100k usd Micallef canvas a Gemeos of the same size should be at least equally priced, and thats me being generous.
If anyone could have took the piss deitch could have at the last OS G show.
You will not see any of these os Gemeos pieces turning up anywhere at least for the next 2 years I feel.
I was saying Deitch does things by the book. The right way, slow and steady and carefully. My point being that based on a 100k usd Micallef canvas a Gemeos of the same size should be at least equally priced, and thats me being generous. If anyone could have took the piss deitch could have at the last OS G show. You will not see any of these os Gemeos pieces turning up anywhere at least for the next 2 years I feel. |
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Baxter Orr
Artist
New Member
Posts โข 75
Likes โข 8
September 2007
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LAZ - Artists Careers?, by Baxter Orr on Jul 30, 2008 22:35:10 GMT 1, Has Adam Neate ever been affiliated with LAZ? He seems to be doing amazingly well without releasing many prints and simply focusing on originals, even in this "scene" I dont hear much about him but he seems to be on another level. I mean his website doesnt even work right which might prove all you need is a decent gallery and a few wealthy collectors who really like collecting your work. Does good work really need the artificial hype of someone like Laz? Feels like a lot of these artists are doing fine but us low class "can only afford the print" type people are bashing them. David Choe and Micallef are both really talented and as long as they can keep collectors willing to spend 25k+ on their works they are fine. Who cares if their prints go for more than retail on ebay, for artists like these its all about the original collector base which for most artists is relatively small.
Has Adam Neate ever been affiliated with LAZ? He seems to be doing amazingly well without releasing many prints and simply focusing on originals, even in this "scene" I dont hear much about him but he seems to be on another level. I mean his website doesnt even work right which might prove all you need is a decent gallery and a few wealthy collectors who really like collecting your work. Does good work really need the artificial hype of someone like Laz? Feels like a lot of these artists are doing fine but us low class "can only afford the print" type people are bashing them. David Choe and Micallef are both really talented and as long as they can keep collectors willing to spend 25k+ on their works they are fine. Who cares if their prints go for more than retail on ebay, for artists like these its all about the original collector base which for most artists is relatively small.
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Heavyconsumer
Junior Member
Posts โข 4,974
Likes โข 5
February 2008
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LAZ - Artists Careers?, by Heavyconsumer on Jul 30, 2008 22:37:17 GMT 1, Only thing I will say here is that the LARGEST Gemeos pieces at Deitch were around 50k usd. End of argument.
I think that's very much more relevant than some other points here. Graeme started the thread off, with a title about ruining careers, which I feel was a bit harsh and set a negative tone for th responses. I'm not clued up on what makes an artist successful, but I do think Laz appears to overprice some of the work on offer.
I was not suggesting for a moment that he has "ruined" Lucy M's career, but just that he didn't price her art up correctly, because the recent show she did elsewhere sold out and his didn't, while there was/is some beautiful work left over, not just the space-fillers (not to mention a couple of crackers he had on offer long before her December show that are still available).
I don't pretend to understand all the effects this might have on an artist's career, but it would seem sensible to me, that any Laz artist, also has an overseas rep/outlet and also sells their own work domestically at more realistic pricing, in addition to Laz (if that's legally possible).
For all the above negative comments it's good to read people pointing out that he's given some arists a much wider audience than they might otherwise have had. Would I have heard of Miranda Donovan, Lucy McLauchlan or Blu without Laz? I don't now, but I'm sure I wouldn't have stumbled across them quite so easily/quickly.
Only thing I will say here is that the LARGEST Gemeos pieces at Deitch were around 50k usd. End of argument. I think that's very much more relevant than some other points here. Graeme started the thread off, with a title about ruining careers, which I feel was a bit harsh and set a negative tone for th responses. I'm not clued up on what makes an artist successful, but I do think Laz appears to overprice some of the work on offer. I was not suggesting for a moment that he has "ruined" Lucy M's career, but just that he didn't price her art up correctly, because the recent show she did elsewhere sold out and his didn't, while there was/is some beautiful work left over, not just the space-fillers (not to mention a couple of crackers he had on offer long before her December show that are still available). I don't pretend to understand all the effects this might have on an artist's career, but it would seem sensible to me, that any Laz artist, also has an overseas rep/outlet and also sells their own work domestically at more realistic pricing, in addition to Laz (if that's legally possible). For all the above negative comments it's good to read people pointing out that he's given some arists a much wider audience than they might otherwise have had. Would I have heard of Miranda Donovan, Lucy McLauchlan or Blu without Laz? I don't now, but I'm sure I wouldn't have stumbled across them quite so easily/quickly. |
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loucastel
Junior Member
Posts โข 1,551
Likes โข 53
October 2007
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LAZ - Artists Careers?, by loucastel on Jul 30, 2008 22:50:15 GMT 1, I think people are much too fast to start pinning blame on people People miss out on a print release or the prices get out of their reach and they go around slagging of the Gallery and Artist Steve has done a great job over the last few years, and proof of that is the list of Galleries trying to emulate his model. Supply & Demand Spot on, just caught up with this thread and am astounded, in my opinion, Laz has had alot more to do with bringing alot of artists to peoples attention, many of whom we would not have paid much attention to without his promotion and stated interest. There has been a steady anti-Laz theme to several regular posters comments, fair enough if they have a personal grudge with Laz, but FFS, the queue was a year ago, if anyone feels that a bad queue is reason enough to lauch a life long vendetta against someone and their business ( which without that business, I boubt we would be enjoying the same degree of interest as we currently do), then it may be time to get out more and get a life. I had to wait a while in Tesco the other day, and someone pushed in a few folk ahead in the queue, I'm not about to spend the next couple of years boycotting and publicly decrying tesco. Silky, you set great store in protecting galleries and supporting them ( as we have seen recently), these people who are not in any way commenting on art at all are breaking pretty much every one of your new criteria, but generally seem to be allowed to continue as its Laz.Maybe we should start another thread of which artists represented by Laz would we not have heard about without his influence?
Whats this? trying to get people banned are we?
I think people are much too fast to start pinning blame on people People miss out on a print release or the prices get out of their reach and they go around slagging of the Gallery and Artist Steve has done a great job over the last few years, and proof of that is the list of Galleries trying to emulate his model. Supply & Demand Spot on, just caught up with this thread and am astounded, in my opinion, Laz has had alot more to do with bringing alot of artists to peoples attention, many of whom we would not have paid much attention to without his promotion and stated interest. There has been a steady anti-Laz theme to several regular posters comments, fair enough if they have a personal grudge with Laz, but FFS, the queue was a year ago, if anyone feels that a bad queue is reason enough to lauch a life long vendetta against someone and their business ( which without that business, I boubt we would be enjoying the same degree of interest as we currently do), then it may be time to get out more and get a life. I had to wait a while in Tesco the other day, and someone pushed in a few folk ahead in the queue, I'm not about to spend the next couple of years boycotting and publicly decrying tesco. Silky, you set great store in protecting galleries and supporting them ( as we have seen recently), these people who are not in any way commenting on art at all are breaking pretty much every one of your new criteria, but generally seem to be allowed to continue as its Laz.Maybe we should start another thread of which artists represented by Laz would we not have heard about without his influence? Whats this? trying to get people banned are we? |
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afroken
Junior Member
Posts โข 1,018
Likes โข 29
February 2009
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LAZ - Artists Careers?, by afroken on Jul 31, 2008 1:39:23 GMT 1, Bast - that show was months ago. He has no shows scheduled AT TALL! He doesn't even have a website. All because of Laz.
What on earth does Laz have to do with BAST?? He's never represented or exhibited him (apart from the odd piece here and there). Anyway, he just had an amazing show at Brooklynite that finished 3 weeks ago. Give the guy a chance to prepare another one! Jeez!
Or are you confusing him with someone else?
Bast - that show was months ago. He has no shows scheduled AT TALL! He doesn't even have a website. All because of Laz. What on earth does Laz have to do with BAST?? He's never represented or exhibited him (apart from the odd piece here and there). Anyway, he just had an amazing show at Brooklynite that finished 3 weeks ago. Give the guy a chance to prepare another one! Jeez! Or are you confusing him with someone else? |
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jamesreeve5
Blank Rank
Posts โข 0
Likes โข 0
September 2012
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LAZ - Artists Careers?, by jamesreeve5 on Jul 31, 2008 6:47:36 GMT 1, This post is not slagging off Laz, but rather offering constructive criticism on ways in which he might improve the longevity of his gallery.
The problem with Laz galleries and artists careers is that while Laz charges large sums of money for the artists he represents, he is unable to get a significant flow of international museum shows and critical recognition for his artists. It is a market that is being held up by the consumer while the institutions sit on the sidelines and twiddle their thumbs. You see a steady flow of Banksys going through the auction houses and yet I can't think of a single museum that has a significant work of his in their permanent collection. If Laz was smart he would be donating bits of his collection to museums instead of worrying about getting every last penny.
This post is not slagging off Laz, but rather offering constructive criticism on ways in which he might improve the longevity of his gallery.
The problem with Laz galleries and artists careers is that while Laz charges large sums of money for the artists he represents, he is unable to get a significant flow of international museum shows and critical recognition for his artists. It is a market that is being held up by the consumer while the institutions sit on the sidelines and twiddle their thumbs. You see a steady flow of Banksys going through the auction houses and yet I can't think of a single museum that has a significant work of his in their permanent collection. If Laz was smart he would be donating bits of his collection to museums instead of worrying about getting every last penny.
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LAZ - Artists Careers?, by weaver on Jul 31, 2008 20:08:41 GMT 1, Spot on, just caught up with this thread and am astounded, in my opinion, Laz has had alot more to do with bringing alot of artists to peoples attention, many of whom we would not have paid much attention to without his promotion and stated interest. There has been a steady anti-Laz theme to several regular posters comments, fair enough if they have a personal grudge with Laz, but FFS, the queue was a year ago, if anyone feels that a bad queue is reason enough to lauch a life long vendetta against someone and their business ( which without that business, I boubt we would be enjoying the same degree of interest as we currently do), then it may be time to get out more and get a life. I had to wait a while in Tesco the other day, and someone pushed in a few folk ahead in the queue, I'm not about to spend the next couple of years boycotting and publicly decrying tesco. Silky, you set great store in protecting galleries and supporting them ( as we have seen recently), these people who are not in any way commenting on art at all are breaking pretty much every one of your new criteria, but generally seem to be allowed to continue as its Laz.Maybe we should start another thread of which artists represented by Laz would we not have heard about without his influence? Whats this? trying to get people banned are we?
Spot on, just caught up with this thread and am astounded, in my opinion, Laz has had alot more to do with bringing alot of artists to peoples attention, many of whom we would not have paid much attention to without his promotion and stated interest. There has been a steady anti-Laz theme to several regular posters comments, fair enough if they have a personal grudge with Laz, but FFS, the queue was a year ago, if anyone feels that a bad queue is reason enough to lauch a life long vendetta against someone and their business ( which without that business, I boubt we would be enjoying the same degree of interest as we currently do), then it may be time to get out more and get a life. I had to wait a while in Tesco the other day, and someone pushed in a few folk ahead in the queue, I'm not about to spend the next couple of years boycotting and publicly decrying tesco. Silky, you set great store in protecting galleries and supporting them ( as we have seen recently), these people who are not in any way commenting on art at all are breaking pretty much every one of your new criteria, but generally seem to be allowed to continue as its Laz.Maybe we should start another thread of which artists represented by Laz would we not have heard about without his influence? Whats this? trying to get people banned are we? Nah more wondering about why some folk are banned / suspended for commenting on the excessive self promotion of one but others seem to be able to slate other galleries. Not trying to get people banned Lou, just trying to make sense of why Laz bashing seems freely acepted here, even though he has brought alot of artists to our attention, but small galleries who repeatedly present very little of interest are protected and promoted with aplomb. |
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LAZ - Artists Careers?, by snausages on Jul 31, 2008 21:07:01 GMT 1, just trying to make sense of why Laz bashing seems freely acepted here
I think because he got greedy. At least that's what my unscientific opinion is. I get a more honest feeling from most other galleries about caring more about the art than the money. You do have to give Laz credit for starting it all when Banksy work wasn't worth all that much but I feel (without knowing the guy) that once he got a taste of serious money the direction he has taken the gallery and the artists has been motivated by just that, money not art. Just my opinion but I'll never patronize them, that's for sure.
On a related note, a Micallef Improvide Minotaur print failed to meet a very modest reserve of $1000 at Christies today. Retail cost at Laz, $2000 + VAT. Ouch.
just trying to make sense of why Laz bashing seems freely acepted hereI think because he got greedy. At least that's what my unscientific opinion is. I get a more honest feeling from most other galleries about caring more about the art than the money. You do have to give Laz credit for starting it all when Banksy work wasn't worth all that much but I feel (without knowing the guy) that once he got a taste of serious money the direction he has taken the gallery and the artists has been motivated by just that, money not art. Just my opinion but I'll never patronize them, that's for sure. On a related note, a Micallef Improvide Minotaur print failed to meet a very modest reserve of $1000 at Christies today. Retail cost at Laz, $2000 + VAT. Ouch.
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LAZ - Artists Careers?, by Daniel Silk on Jul 31, 2008 21:38:04 GMT 1, I dont really see this thread as bashing Laz I guess some people might be attempting it, but I think they are struggling to find any valid reasons for it ;D If anything this threads highlighting all the good he has done for the Artists and scene as a whole over the years.
I dont really see this thread as bashing Laz I guess some people might be attempting it, but I think they are struggling to find any valid reasons for it ;D If anything this threads highlighting all the good he has done for the Artists and scene as a whole over the years. |
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LAZ - Artists Careers?, by ricosg11 on Jul 31, 2008 22:16:08 GMT 1, with great power comes great responsibility. You hear that Steve-o?!?!
with great power comes great responsibility. You hear that Steve-o?!?!
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thinkbank
New Member
Posts โข 230
Likes โข 0
March 2008
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LAZ - Artists Careers?, by thinkbank on Jul 31, 2008 22:20:40 GMT 1, I think people are much too fast to start pinning blame on people People miss out on a print release or the prices get out of their reach and they go around slagging of the Gallery and Artist Steve has done a great job over the last few years, and proof of that is the list of Galleries trying to emulate his model. Supply & Demand
were you in that Micallef Q then Silks? Blatantly not....
I think people are much too fast to start pinning blame on people People miss out on a print release or the prices get out of their reach and they go around slagging of the Gallery and Artist Steve has done a great job over the last few years, and proof of that is the list of Galleries trying to emulate his model. Supply & Demand were you in that Micallef Q then Silks? Blatantly not.... |
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LAZ - Artists Careers?, by lukedixon on Jul 31, 2008 23:55:44 GMT 1, I'd love laz to ruin my career. seriously, i'd love to live the ruined life of micallef...
to defend laz even more, there gallery opening in newcastle only encourages the urban art scene in the north east! money aside - i get to see some of my favourite artists on my doorstep...which can only be good.
I'd love laz to ruin my career. seriously, i'd love to live the ruined life of micallef...
to defend laz even more, there gallery opening in newcastle only encourages the urban art scene in the north east! money aside - i get to see some of my favourite artists on my doorstep...which can only be good.
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robinbanks
Junior Member
Posts โข 1,319
Likes โข 2
October 2007
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LAZ - Artists Careers?, by robinbanks on Aug 1, 2008 0:38:10 GMT 1, I dont really see this thread as bashing Laz I guess some people might be attempting it, but I think they are struggling to find any valid reasons for it ;D If anything this threads highlighting all the good he has done for the Artists and scene as a whole over the years.
Erm - was this thread not called "Laz - ruining artists careers" yesterday?
Surely under new forum rules if the name Laz was replaced with any of the online "galleries" that grace this forum it would have grounds for a banning?
I dont really see this thread as bashing Laz I guess some people might be attempting it, but I think they are struggling to find any valid reasons for it ;D If anything this threads highlighting all the good he has done for the Artists and scene as a whole over the years. Erm - was this thread not called "Laz - ruining artists careers" yesterday? Surely under new forum rules if the name Laz was replaced with any of the online "galleries" that grace this forum it would have grounds for a banning? |
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People miss out on a print release or the prices get out of their reach and they go around slagging of the Gallery and Artist 
