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LAZ - Artists Careers?, by graeme501 on Jul 30, 2008 12:32:39 GMT 1, it seems to happen time and time again that people mention that LAZ will ruin this artists career and that artists career by charging too much money for their works, and that he has little thought about the future work of the artists
but has LAZ done this with anyone ? which artist's career has been ruined by LAZ's aleadged money grabbing ways ? some might say micallef, but look at what he has coming up in the next year ... a royal academy group show and a print exhibition in the tate - hardly a career ruined
i think some people here maybe underestimate Steve Laz and the way he handles his artists and their careers
it seems to happen time and time again that people mention that LAZ will ruin this artists career and that artists career by charging too much money for their works, and that he has little thought about the future work of the artists
but has LAZ done this with anyone ? which artist's career has been ruined by LAZ's aleadged money grabbing ways ? some might say micallef, but look at what he has coming up in the next year ... a royal academy group show and a print exhibition in the tate - hardly a career ruined
i think some people here maybe underestimate Steve Laz and the way he handles his artists and their careers
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Richard
Junior Member
Posts โข 1,367
Likes โข 199
September 2007
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LAZ - Artists Careers?, by Richard on Jul 30, 2008 12:39:33 GMT 1, I will never forget the Micallef queue. I set off from Leeds at 2am...got to Laz at 6am...about 70th in the queue. Waited nearly 12 hours with everyone and their dog pushing in...people getting beaten up etc. When I finally got to the door I was told that they had sold out: a bit gutted but shit happens. When we asked if we could go in to look at the pieces on the wall we were asked if we were going to buy the book. I told them I wasn't that bothered and they basically told us to fuck off. I emailed Laz and Antony about this and never got an apology. Needless to say I won't be dealing with Laz again.
I will never forget the Micallef queue. I set off from Leeds at 2am...got to Laz at 6am...about 70th in the queue. Waited nearly 12 hours with everyone and their dog pushing in...people getting beaten up etc. When I finally got to the door I was told that they had sold out: a bit gutted but shit happens. When we asked if we could go in to look at the pieces on the wall we were asked if we were going to buy the book. I told them I wasn't that bothered and they basically told us to fuck off. I emailed Laz and Antony about this and never got an apology. Needless to say I won't be dealing with Laz again.
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LAZ - Artists Careers?, by victorwilliams on Jul 30, 2008 12:40:21 GMT 1, I don't think he has ruined anyones career, people are very narrow minded. when an artist's value drops in the secondary market (ebay) the usual people come out and think the worlds going to end.
A artist's career especially one as talented as Micallef's is not judged by ebay, far far from it.
I don't think he has ruined anyones career, people are very narrow minded. when an artist's value drops in the secondary market (ebay) the usual people come out and think the worlds going to end.
A artist's career especially one as talented as Micallef's is not judged by ebay, far far from it.
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LAZ - Artists Careers?, by Daniel Silk on Jul 30, 2008 12:56:08 GMT 1, I think people are much too fast to start pinning blame on people People miss out on a print release or the prices get out of their reach and they go around slagging of the Gallery and Artist Steve has done a great job over the last few years, and proof of that is the list of Galleries trying to emulate his model.
Supply & Demand
I think people are much too fast to start pinning blame on people People miss out on a print release or the prices get out of their reach and they go around slagging of the Gallery and Artist Steve has done a great job over the last few years, and proof of that is the list of Galleries trying to emulate his model. Supply & Demand
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LAZ - Artists Careers?, by cashman on Jul 30, 2008 13:02:05 GMT 1, I think people are much too fast to start pinning blame on people People miss out on a print release or the prices get out of their reach and they go around slagging of the Gallery and Artist Steve has done a great job over the last few years, and proof of that is the list of Galleries trying to emulate his model. Supply & Demand
emulate his model ?? how about trying to make as much money as him ? Im not saying that all he's done has had a negative impact...but some people make out that the scene wouldnt be here without him
I think people are much too fast to start pinning blame on people People miss out on a print release or the prices get out of their reach and they go around slagging of the Gallery and Artist Steve has done a great job over the last few years, and proof of that is the list of Galleries trying to emulate his model. Supply & Demand emulate his model ?? how about trying to make as much money as him ? Im not saying that all he's done has had a negative impact...but some people make out that the scene wouldnt be here without him
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Simococo
Junior Member
Posts โข 3,179
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April 2007
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LAZ - Artists Careers?, by Simococo on Jul 30, 2008 13:05:08 GMT 1, so few artists make the real big time anyway that the law of the jungle means most of his stable will fade away. Nothing to do with Laz, just gravity.
so few artists make the real big time anyway that the law of the jungle means most of his stable will fade away. Nothing to do with Laz, just gravity.
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LAZ - Artists Careers?, by graeme501 on Jul 30, 2008 13:08:38 GMT 1, but why do all the artists need to make real big money ? even if an artist is selling their biggest original works for say ยฃ3-5k, and releasing a few prints a year, they are still making a very very good living, doing something creative and exciting
artists dont die when they fail to reach the heights of say banksy or micallef
but why do all the artists need to make real big money ? even if an artist is selling their biggest original works for say ยฃ3-5k, and releasing a few prints a year, they are still making a very very good living, doing something creative and exciting
artists dont die when they fail to reach the heights of say banksy or micallef
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LAZ - Artists Careers?, by Daniel Silk on Jul 30, 2008 13:16:49 GMT 1, I think people are much too fast to start pinning blame on people People miss out on a print release or the prices get out of their reach and they go around slagging of the Gallery and Artist Steve has done a great job over the last few years, and proof of that is the list of Galleries trying to emulate his model. Supply & Demand emulate his model ?? how about trying to make as much money as him ? Im not saying that all he's done has had a negative impact...but some people make out that the scene wouldnt be here without him
I agree!
I think people are much too fast to start pinning blame on people People miss out on a print release or the prices get out of their reach and they go around slagging of the Gallery and Artist Steve has done a great job over the last few years, and proof of that is the list of Galleries trying to emulate his model. Supply & Demand emulate his model ?? how about trying to make as much money as him ? Im not saying that all he's done has had a negative impact...but some people make out that the scene wouldnt be here without him I agree!
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Simococo
Junior Member
Posts โข 3,179
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April 2007
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LAZ - Artists Careers?, by Simococo on Jul 30, 2008 13:28:03 GMT 1, i don't think most set out to make real big money but they certainly want recognition for their art. They want to get there stuff out there and feedback is very important. Money, press and ultimately museum interest is all part (but not all) of the feedback they seek.
i don't think most set out to make real big money but they certainly want recognition for their art. They want to get there stuff out there and feedback is very important. Money, press and ultimately museum interest is all part (but not all) of the feedback they seek.
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LAZ - Artists Careers?, by graeme501 on Jul 30, 2008 13:32:05 GMT 1, surely being part of laz's roster is recognition ? all of his artist tour the world doing group and solo shows, and are known pretty well
surely being part of laz's roster is recognition ? all of his artist tour the world doing group and solo shows, and are known pretty well
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LAZ - Artists Careers?, by Daniel Silk on Jul 30, 2008 13:32:26 GMT 1, i don't think most set out to make real big money but they certainly want recognition for their art. They want to get there stuff out there and feedback is very important. Money, press and ultimately museum interest is all part (but not all) of the feedback they seek.
Bang on!
Any moaning of Artist or Gallery making a lot of money is just pure jealousy.
i don't think most set out to make real big money but they certainly want recognition for their art. They want to get there stuff out there and feedback is very important. Money, press and ultimately museum interest is all part (but not all) of the feedback they seek. Bang on! Any moaning of Artist or Gallery making a lot of money is just pure jealousy.
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andyctree
New Member
Posts โข 307
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July 2007
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LAZ - Artists Careers?, by andyctree on Jul 30, 2008 13:35:39 GMT 1, The prices on the Lucy McLauchlan originals are ridiculous compared to her last show prices at Fifty24SF. I wouldn't say it is ruining her career, but it would help her if they didn't price her work 5 times more than other places are selling similar work.
The prices on the Lucy McLauchlan originals are ridiculous compared to her last show prices at Fifty24SF. I wouldn't say it is ruining her career, but it would help her if they didn't price her work 5 times more than other places are selling similar work.
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LAZ - Artists Careers?, by graeme501 on Jul 30, 2008 13:37:51 GMT 1, The prices on the Lucy McLauchlan originals are ridiculous compared to her last show prices at Fifty24SF. I wouldn't say it is ruining her career, but it would help her if they didn't price her work 5 times more than other places are selling similar work.
having bought 2 pieces from the fifty24sf show and bing priced out at laz, i would agree with you there
however, the laz pieces are much much bigger, i paid ยฃ1.5k for a 16"x16" canvas, where at laz, there is a very nice 100cmx100cm canvas for ยฃ5k
The prices on the Lucy McLauchlan originals are ridiculous compared to her last show prices at Fifty24SF. I wouldn't say it is ruining her career, but it would help her if they didn't price her work 5 times more than other places are selling similar work. having bought 2 pieces from the fifty24sf show and bing priced out at laz, i would agree with you there however, the laz pieces are much much bigger, i paid ยฃ1.5k for a 16"x16" canvas, where at laz, there is a very nice 100cmx100cm canvas for ยฃ5k
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LAZ - Artists Careers?, by graeme501 on Jul 30, 2008 13:40:21 GMT 1, i don't think most set out to make real big money but they certainly want recognition for their art. They want to get there stuff out there and feedback is very important. Money, press and ultimately museum interest is all part (but not all) of the feedback they seek. Bang on! Any moaning of Artist or Gallery making a lot of money is just pure jealousy.
i dont agree with that at all, people who follow a particular artist dont want to be ripped off or feel that they are not getting value for money
i don't think most set out to make real big money but they certainly want recognition for their art. They want to get there stuff out there and feedback is very important. Money, press and ultimately museum interest is all part (but not all) of the feedback they seek. Bang on! Any moaning of Artist or Gallery making a lot of money is just pure jealousy. i dont agree with that at all, people who follow a particular artist dont want to be ripped off or feel that they are not getting value for money
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LAZ - Artists Careers?, by slowmo on Jul 30, 2008 13:45:42 GMT 1, Have to agree to disagree, LAZ overprices his artists work. Banksy, a desired artist who regularly exceeds ยฃ100,000 at auction on works, has loads of OVERPRICED work for sale on LAZ, it gets people thinking, If I want to bid ยฃ160,000 for a Banksy at Auction, is it worth it? At ยฃ400K (Banksy di faced tenner case) no one in the world wants it at source, so I am definitely paying THE MAXIMUM value for my investment (at this level its an investment).
Price them just below auction prices, original source material sells. Auction prices increase as their is no primary work available, repeat exercise.
I really think in the long term LAZ pricing things higher than anyone could hope to re-sell (Lots of Faile sitting on that site too, and Micallef) will affect this particular market, which is incredibly financially driven.
people want to feel good about a piece in their house for 6-12 months then make a profit.
Have to agree to disagree, LAZ overprices his artists work. Banksy, a desired artist who regularly exceeds ยฃ100,000 at auction on works, has loads of OVERPRICED work for sale on LAZ, it gets people thinking, If I want to bid ยฃ160,000 for a Banksy at Auction, is it worth it? At ยฃ400K (Banksy di faced tenner case) no one in the world wants it at source, so I am definitely paying THE MAXIMUM value for my investment (at this level its an investment).
Price them just below auction prices, original source material sells. Auction prices increase as their is no primary work available, repeat exercise.
I really think in the long term LAZ pricing things higher than anyone could hope to re-sell (Lots of Faile sitting on that site too, and Micallef) will affect this particular market, which is incredibly financially driven.
people want to feel good about a piece in their house for 6-12 months then make a profit.
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Simococo
Junior Member
Posts โข 3,179
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April 2007
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LAZ - Artists Careers?, by Simococo on Jul 30, 2008 13:49:35 GMT 1, Being part of the Laz club is a decent start, but there is so much more out there for an artist's career.
The fact they made it onto his roster shows their talent and motivation for sure. Laz has only been running his gallery for a very short period of time so even he is learning the game, and maybe one day he will recieve the world wide praise and reward he may or may not deserve.
and micallef is obviously an ambitious chap (BP Portrait runner up) but ouside of our world I expect his celebrity (shit word I know) is pretty small. I doubt Anthony sits there at home with a stella thinking "I have achieved all I can"
Being part of the Laz club is a decent start, but there is so much more out there for an artist's career.
The fact they made it onto his roster shows their talent and motivation for sure. Laz has only been running his gallery for a very short period of time so even he is learning the game, and maybe one day he will recieve the world wide praise and reward he may or may not deserve.
and micallef is obviously an ambitious chap (BP Portrait runner up) but ouside of our world I expect his celebrity (shit word I know) is pretty small. I doubt Anthony sits there at home with a stella thinking "I have achieved all I can"
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LAZ - Artists Careers?, by Daniel Silk on Jul 30, 2008 14:08:39 GMT 1, Bang on! Any moaning of Artist or Gallery making a lot of money is just pure jealousy. i dont agree with that at all, people who follow a particular artist dont want to be ripped off or feel that they are not getting value for money
Yeah, or course! if you think pieces are over priced that fine its when people moan about how much money they are making.
Bang on! Any moaning of Artist or Gallery making a lot of money is just pure jealousy. i dont agree with that at all, people who follow a particular artist dont want to be ripped off or feel that they are not getting value for money Yeah, or course! if you think pieces are over priced that fine its when people moan about how much money they are making.
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LAZ - Artists Careers?, by graeme501 on Jul 30, 2008 14:12:52 GMT 1, but they are making ยฃ0 if the artwork doesnt sell
but they are making ยฃ0 if the artwork doesnt sell
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LAZ - Artists Careers?, by Daniel Silk on Jul 30, 2008 14:18:24 GMT 1, but they are making ยฃ0 if the artwork doesnt sell
True, True! Everyone loses out in that situation
but they are making ยฃ0 if the artwork doesnt sell True, True! Everyone loses out in that situation
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nacional
Junior Member
Posts โข 1,734
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August 2007
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LAZ - Artists Careers?, by nacional on Jul 30, 2008 14:20:37 GMT 1, If you look at the Laz site the new Micallef stuff is at 50K, but scroll back a bit and the older stuff is at 20K.
What is that about.....
If you look at the Laz site the new Micallef stuff is at 50K, but scroll back a bit and the older stuff is at 20K.
What is that about.....
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loucastel
Junior Member
Posts โข 1,551
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October 2007
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LAZ - Artists Careers?, by loucastel on Jul 30, 2008 14:49:36 GMT 1, Most people tend to forget, a gallery is a business just like any other, so many artists have been oversold by thier agents, publishers, galleries, most,I'm not saying all, galleries try to squeeze as much money out of their artists as they can, it has happened in the contempory market over and over again, someone ,in another thread mentioned the artist Doug Hyde, a while ago the average price for his original work was ยฃ12K +, now he is having trouble giving his work away, I dont know why Micaleff keeps getting used as an example but he is someone who has risen too far too fast, but while people keep paying these grossly inflated prices, galleries will continue to extort as much as possible, thats business. Once one artist has been bled, doesnt matter, there will be another one along soon, the art buying public are fickle at best. A gallery owner friend of mine is a personal friend of Micaleff, and when his prices started to go stella, he couldnt believe it, and didnt want it to happen that way because he knew that it could also go the other way just as quick, then you become yesterdays news, ok you still have a hardcore fanbase, but thats about it, and as I said on another thread, this forum isnt the centre of the art universe!!
Most people tend to forget, a gallery is a business just like any other, so many artists have been oversold by thier agents, publishers, galleries, most,I'm not saying all, galleries try to squeeze as much money out of their artists as they can, it has happened in the contempory market over and over again, someone ,in another thread mentioned the artist Doug Hyde, a while ago the average price for his original work was ยฃ12K +, now he is having trouble giving his work away, I dont know why Micaleff keeps getting used as an example but he is someone who has risen too far too fast, but while people keep paying these grossly inflated prices, galleries will continue to extort as much as possible, thats business. Once one artist has been bled, doesnt matter, there will be another one along soon, the art buying public are fickle at best. A gallery owner friend of mine is a personal friend of Micaleff, and when his prices started to go stella, he couldnt believe it, and didnt want it to happen that way because he knew that it could also go the other way just as quick, then you become yesterdays news, ok you still have a hardcore fanbase, but thats about it, and as I said on another thread, this forum isnt the centre of the art universe!!
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moleman
Junior Member
Posts โข 1,866
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March 2008
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LAZ - Artists Careers?, by moleman on Jul 30, 2008 15:30:33 GMT 1, you will soon be forgotten if your work is not accesable to the masses and you will end up high end like hirst good for him bad for you and me. maybe its time to say sod it when mic has gone stella some one else will come along there are many great artist in the world. Who resently bought something from laz anyone
you will soon be forgotten if your work is not accesable to the masses and you will end up high end like hirst good for him bad for you and me. maybe its time to say sod it when mic has gone stella some one else will come along there are many great artist in the world. Who resently bought something from laz anyone
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Heavyconsumer
Junior Member
Posts โข 4,974
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February 2008
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LAZ - Artists Careers?, by Heavyconsumer on Jul 30, 2008 15:34:03 GMT 1, The prices on the Lucy McLauchlan originals are ridiculous compared to her last show prices at Fifty24SF. I wouldn't say it is ruining her career, but it would help her if they didn't price her work 5 times more than other places are selling similar work. having bought 2 pieces from the fifty24sf show and bing priced out at laz, i would agree with you there however, the laz pieces are much much bigger, i paid ยฃ1.5k for a 16"x16" canvas, where at laz, there is a very nice 100cmx100cm canvas for ยฃ5k
There were/are some quality pieces at Laz, but the proof's in the pudding. And it's not being eaten at Laz. As has been said before, most people like the comfort of knowing that if they are spending thousands of pounds on art, it will retain some resale value and are put off by the thought that they would probably lose 50%+ were they to need to sell at some point. Laz's customers are not "most people!"
It seems from comments by the staff at Fifty24 (comments made to me by telephone), that it was Lucy herself who was intent on reducing the prices of her work and producing plenty on paper to help them do this and to help fans buy, who were priced out by Laz (I was also one of those fans). Could there be a better reflection that the work is overpriced, than when the artist reacts in this way?
The prices on the Lucy McLauchlan originals are ridiculous compared to her last show prices at Fifty24SF. I wouldn't say it is ruining her career, but it would help her if they didn't price her work 5 times more than other places are selling similar work. having bought 2 pieces from the fifty24sf show and bing priced out at laz, i would agree with you there however, the laz pieces are much much bigger, i paid ยฃ1.5k for a 16"x16" canvas, where at laz, there is a very nice 100cmx100cm canvas for ยฃ5k There were/are some quality pieces at Laz, but the proof's in the pudding. And it's not being eaten at Laz. As has been said before, most people like the comfort of knowing that if they are spending thousands of pounds on art, it will retain some resale value and are put off by the thought that they would probably lose 50%+ were they to need to sell at some point. Laz's customers are not "most people!" It seems from comments by the staff at Fifty24 (comments made to me by telephone), that it was Lucy herself who was intent on reducing the prices of her work and producing plenty on paper to help them do this and to help fans buy, who were priced out by Laz (I was also one of those fans). Could there be a better reflection that the work is overpriced, than when the artist reacts in this way?
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Bram
Artist
Junior Member
Posts โข 2,818
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November 2007
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LAZ - Artists Careers?, by Bram on Jul 30, 2008 16:12:24 GMT 1, Here's a question then, well two. If you was an up and coming artist and SL knocked on the door would you 1) be flattered and order that new Merc or 2) tell him to get stuffed and if so where would you take your next bus ride to.
Here's a question then, well two. If you was an up and coming artist and SL knocked on the door would you 1) be flattered and order that new Merc or 2) tell him to get stuffed and if so where would you take your next bus ride to.
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LAZ - Artists Careers?, by snausages on Jul 30, 2008 16:26:55 GMT 1, I don't think Micallef's career has been ruined by Laz, but then again I think Laz has definitely not handled his career in the best way possible in many respects. Micallef does have that Royal Acedemy show but I think that was set up before his LA show. I might be wrong. But Micallef may not be finished right now but his career could definitely have been in a better spot than it is now. But then again his prices are way too high.
And how about David Choe, I've personally been told by someone who you could say is an important part of Choe's career and he told me hethinks Choes prices have been pushed too high. No surprise Laz still have a lot of inventory left.
I've never bought anything through Laz but I have talked to them on a few occasions about some things and can't say I was impressed by their service or responses. Not the most helpful or nicest people, at least not in my experience.
Interesting to see what happens to Faile when Laz pushes their prices to god knows what this fall. Will they sell out or will they be sitting on a load of inventory?
Common theme here seems to be Laz putting people and fans off by pushing prices way too high too fast. Faile might be able to support it??? We'll see.
I don't think Micallef's career has been ruined by Laz, but then again I think Laz has definitely not handled his career in the best way possible in many respects. Micallef does have that Royal Acedemy show but I think that was set up before his LA show. I might be wrong. But Micallef may not be finished right now but his career could definitely have been in a better spot than it is now. But then again his prices are way too high.
And how about David Choe, I've personally been told by someone who you could say is an important part of Choe's career and he told me hethinks Choes prices have been pushed too high. No surprise Laz still have a lot of inventory left.
I've never bought anything through Laz but I have talked to them on a few occasions about some things and can't say I was impressed by their service or responses. Not the most helpful or nicest people, at least not in my experience.
Interesting to see what happens to Faile when Laz pushes their prices to god knows what this fall. Will they sell out or will they be sitting on a load of inventory?
Common theme here seems to be Laz putting people and fans off by pushing prices way too high too fast. Faile might be able to support it??? We'll see.
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weeble
Junior Member
Posts โข 1,278
Likes โข 2
April 2007
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LAZ - Artists Careers?, by weeble on Jul 30, 2008 19:48:48 GMT 1, I've always wondered what would happen if a gallery really has cocked up and overpriced pieces. I mean, they can't really 'reduce' the price of pieces like a dented can of chopped tomatoes - that wouldn't do any good for any kind of reputation, artist's or gallery's. So if they are not selling, what can they do? What next?
I've always wondered what would happen if a gallery really has cocked up and overpriced pieces. I mean, they can't really 'reduce' the price of pieces like a dented can of chopped tomatoes - that wouldn't do any good for any kind of reputation, artist's or gallery's. So if they are not selling, what can they do? What next?
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Francis
Junior Member
Posts โข 2,571
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September 2007
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LAZ - Artists Careers?, by Francis on Jul 30, 2008 19:54:08 GMT 1, He has ruined Bast's and Kelsey Brooke's careers. You NEVER hear about them anymore. It's like they've vanished from the artworld.
He has ruined Bast's and Kelsey Brooke's careers. You NEVER hear about them anymore. It's like they've vanished from the artworld.
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LAZ - Artists Careers?, by felix on Jul 30, 2008 20:05:52 GMT 1, He has ruined Bast's and Kelsey Brooke's careers. You NEVER hear about them anymore. It's like they've vanished from the artworld.
Huh? Both as popular as ever, Bast has just had a great show - Kelsey Brookes is probably traveling the world surfing, living life to the full, check his website for all his recent works. Laz has been nothing but good for most of his artists imo but you can't get it right all the time, give him a bit of slack for fucks sake.
He has ruined Bast's and Kelsey Brooke's careers. You NEVER hear about them anymore. It's like they've vanished from the artworld. Huh? Both as popular as ever, Bast has just had a great show - Kelsey Brookes is probably traveling the world surfing, living life to the full, check his website for all his recent works. Laz has been nothing but good for most of his artists imo but you can't get it right all the time, give him a bit of slack for fucks sake.
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LAZ - Artists Careers?, by felix on Jul 30, 2008 20:13:00 GMT 1, And how about David Choe, I've personally been told by someone who you could say is an important part of Choe's career and he told me hethinks Choes prices have been pushed too high. No surprise Laz still have a lot of inventory left.
It has been said on here that Choe priced his works for Laz (although not sure if it was just prints). Anyway, I think Choe's prices were worth it!
And how about David Choe, I've personally been told by someone who you could say is an important part of Choe's career and he told me hethinks Choes prices have been pushed too high. No surprise Laz still have a lot of inventory left. It has been said on here that Choe priced his works for Laz (although not sure if it was just prints). Anyway, I think Choe's prices were worth it!
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LAZ - Artists Careers?, by snausages on Jul 30, 2008 20:14:34 GMT 1, Here's a question then, well two. If you was an up and coming artist and SL knocked on the door would you 1) be flattered and order that new Merc or 2) tell him to get stuffed and if so where would you take your next bus ride to. That's like asking a want to be Hollywood Starlet what she would do if some slimeball came up to her and promised her a wad of cash for doing some skin flicks with lots of 'promises' for a bright career down the road.
Here's a question then, well two. If you was an up and coming artist and SL knocked on the door would you 1) be flattered and order that new Merc or 2) tell him to get stuffed and if so where would you take your next bus ride to. That's like asking a want to be Hollywood Starlet what she would do if some slimeball came up to her and promised her a wad of cash for doing some skin flicks with lots of 'promises' for a bright career down the road.
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