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Dreweatts Art Auctions π¬π§, by snausages on Oct 15, 2008 4:51:38 GMT 1, Ease not a street artist? It's his roots. And how wide his audience is, is a little tricky to pin down. And I'd be surprised if his urban fan base isn't the most fervent.
Don't think it's just a London post 9/11 thing. Even if he attempts to define himself outside of this genre, it's contemporary art too. Comparisons? They're everywhere. Many young contemporary artists who exploded got a lot of flack too. And a lot of them have seen many buy-ins now and most of them have critical recognition. I don't think it's a saving grace even if Parla breaks free of the 'urban artist' tag.
And certainly the price for that piece is nothing shameful. But I'm not surprised, the auction was no secret to street art fans, they're scarce and he's riding a lot of hype from his current show. But to me when you say that it was able to reach retail at the 'wrong auction and place' it comes across as the same kind of bigging up hype we've seen a lot of.
It's exactly what Drewatts did last time though and it worked well. It was part of their marketing strategy about exposing lesser known artists by luring buyers in with a few diamonds. It's a valid idea. And really, it's not like Bonhams is nothing but gems. Bonhams has and had a number of weak originals and widely available prints too.
Ease not a street artist? It's his roots. And how wide his audience is, is a little tricky to pin down. And I'd be surprised if his urban fan base isn't the most fervent.
Don't think it's just a London post 9/11 thing. Even if he attempts to define himself outside of this genre, it's contemporary art too. Comparisons? They're everywhere. Many young contemporary artists who exploded got a lot of flack too. And a lot of them have seen many buy-ins now and most of them have critical recognition. I don't think it's a saving grace even if Parla breaks free of the 'urban artist' tag.
And certainly the price for that piece is nothing shameful. But I'm not surprised, the auction was no secret to street art fans, they're scarce and he's riding a lot of hype from his current show. But to me when you say that it was able to reach retail at the 'wrong auction and place' it comes across as the same kind of bigging up hype we've seen a lot of.
It's exactly what Drewatts did last time though and it worked well. It was part of their marketing strategy about exposing lesser known artists by luring buyers in with a few diamonds. It's a valid idea. And really, it's not like Bonhams is nothing but gems. Bonhams has and had a number of weak originals and widely available prints too.
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Dreweatts Art Auctions π¬π§, by suburbangangstar on Oct 15, 2008 5:09:22 GMT 1, MOSE KEEP LIVING IN FANTASY LAND. PARLA MICALLEF NEATE WOULD COMMAND A QUARTER OF WHAT THEYRE HYPED UP TO BE. THANKS TO MR B. NO DIFFERENT THAN THE SCRUBS, JUST A BIT MORE TALENTED. AND WHATS WITH YOU TRYING TO SEPARATE THWM FROM THIS SCENE? THIS SCENE MADE THEM AS THEY NEVER WOULD ACHIEVE THE FAME THWY NOW ENJOY.
MOSE KEEP LIVING IN FANTASY LAND. PARLA MICALLEF NEATE WOULD COMMAND A QUARTER OF WHAT THEYRE HYPED UP TO BE. THANKS TO MR B. NO DIFFERENT THAN THE SCRUBS, JUST A BIT MORE TALENTED. AND WHATS WITH YOU TRYING TO SEPARATE THWM FROM THIS SCENE? THIS SCENE MADE THEM AS THEY NEVER WOULD ACHIEVE THE FAME THWY NOW ENJOY.
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Dreweatts Art Auctions π¬π§, by mose on Oct 15, 2008 5:24:39 GMT 1, Ease not a street artist? It's his roots. And how wide his audience is, is a little tricky to pin down. And I'd be surprised if his urban fan base isn't the most fervent. Don't think it's just a London post 9/11 thing. Even if he attempts to define himself outside of this genre, it's contemporary art too. Comparisons? They're everywhere. Many young contemporary artists who exploded got a lot of flack too. And a lot of them have seen many buy-ins now and most of them have critical recognition. I don't think it's a saving grace even if Parla breaks free of the 'urban artist' tag. And certainly the price for that piece is nothing shameful. But I'm not surprised, the auction was no secret to street art fans, they're scarce and he's riding a lot of hype from his current show. But to me when you say that it was able to reach retail at the 'wrong auction and place' it comes across as the same kind of bigging up hype we've seen a lot of. It's exactly what Drewatts did last time though and it worked well. It was part of their marketing strategy about exposing lesser known artists by luring buyers in with a few diamonds. It's a valid idea. And really, it's not like Bonhams is nothing but gems. Bonhams has and had a number of weak originals and widely available prints too.
1. Ease is not releasing work, Jose Parla is. SAMO was a street artist, Basquiat was a gallery artist.
2. It is a London post-9/11 thing with street art. That's all I was referring to.
3. "I'd be surprised if his urban fan base isn't the most fervent." I'd be really surprised if this statement is actually true. I don't believe it is, as I don't believe Parla is what we refer to as an urban/street artist. I think Jose is being purchased by "proper art patrons".
4. Not giving actual examples isn't answering. I was hoping to discuss actual examples of the 'pump and dump' and how their stories compare/contrast with Parla.
5. No hype. Bad auction, not bad performance for one piece in isolation. It is what it is. You'd still like to see primary have the lowest price, that's definitely healthier IMO.
6. The phrase 'going to the well once too often' comes to mind with regard to this auction. As does 'the market manipulators have moved on'. I think these small guys should take a tip from Tobias Meyer and slowly mix the new stuff, like this genre overall, in with established stuff(like Meyer did mixing Hirst with Warhol, Kippenberger with Rothko, etc.). Urban art does not have the foundation required to continuously support auctions like this. A few mid-grade diamonds from urban art is simply not enough to draw money.
7. Some auction houses will do whatever short-term, self-serving move they see fit to meet profit goals. Poor originals and high-edition, weak, recent prints only destroys your reputation going forward and when the bad times hit, it's often your rep. alone that gets you through. I don't think what they've done with urban art in the last two years will pay dividends going forward.
Ease not a street artist? It's his roots. And how wide his audience is, is a little tricky to pin down. And I'd be surprised if his urban fan base isn't the most fervent. Don't think it's just a London post 9/11 thing. Even if he attempts to define himself outside of this genre, it's contemporary art too. Comparisons? They're everywhere. Many young contemporary artists who exploded got a lot of flack too. And a lot of them have seen many buy-ins now and most of them have critical recognition. I don't think it's a saving grace even if Parla breaks free of the 'urban artist' tag. And certainly the price for that piece is nothing shameful. But I'm not surprised, the auction was no secret to street art fans, they're scarce and he's riding a lot of hype from his current show. But to me when you say that it was able to reach retail at the 'wrong auction and place' it comes across as the same kind of bigging up hype we've seen a lot of. It's exactly what Drewatts did last time though and it worked well. It was part of their marketing strategy about exposing lesser known artists by luring buyers in with a few diamonds. It's a valid idea. And really, it's not like Bonhams is nothing but gems. Bonhams has and had a number of weak originals and widely available prints too. 1. Ease is not releasing work, Jose Parla is. SAMO was a street artist, Basquiat was a gallery artist. 2. It is a London post-9/11 thing with street art. That's all I was referring to. 3. "I'd be surprised if his urban fan base isn't the most fervent." I'd be really surprised if this statement is actually true. I don't believe it is, as I don't believe Parla is what we refer to as an urban/street artist. I think Jose is being purchased by "proper art patrons". 4. Not giving actual examples isn't answering. I was hoping to discuss actual examples of the 'pump and dump' and how their stories compare/contrast with Parla. 5. No hype. Bad auction, not bad performance for one piece in isolation. It is what it is. You'd still like to see primary have the lowest price, that's definitely healthier IMO. 6. The phrase 'going to the well once too often' comes to mind with regard to this auction. As does 'the market manipulators have moved on'. I think these small guys should take a tip from Tobias Meyer and slowly mix the new stuff, like this genre overall, in with established stuff(like Meyer did mixing Hirst with Warhol, Kippenberger with Rothko, etc.). Urban art does not have the foundation required to continuously support auctions like this. A few mid-grade diamonds from urban art is simply not enough to draw money. 7. Some auction houses will do whatever short-term, self-serving move they see fit to meet profit goals. Poor originals and high-edition, weak, recent prints only destroys your reputation going forward and when the bad times hit, it's often your rep. alone that gets you through. I don't think what they've done with urban art in the last two years will pay dividends going forward. |
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Dreweatts Art Auctions π¬π§, by mose on Oct 15, 2008 5:31:33 GMT 1, MOSE KEEP LIVING IN FANTASY LAND. PARLA MICALLEF NEATE WOULD COMMAND A QUARTER OF WHAT THEYRE HYPED UP TO BE. THANKS TO MR B. NO DIFFERENT THAN THE SCRUBS, JUST A BIT MORE TALENTED. AND WHATS WITH YOU TRYING TO SEPARATE THWM FROM THIS SCENE? THIS SCENE MADE THEM AS THEY NEVER WOULD ACHIEVE THE FAME THWY NOW ENJOY.
did I make any mention of Parla, Micallef, and Neate with regard to hype, Banksy, or anything of the sort? All I stated was that I hope the 'rushing to bad auction houses with work that is just too soon' ends before it hurts them. Simple.
MOSE KEEP LIVING IN FANTASY LAND. PARLA MICALLEF NEATE WOULD COMMAND A QUARTER OF WHAT THEYRE HYPED UP TO BE. THANKS TO MR B. NO DIFFERENT THAN THE SCRUBS, JUST A BIT MORE TALENTED. AND WHATS WITH YOU TRYING TO SEPARATE THWM FROM THIS SCENE? THIS SCENE MADE THEM AS THEY NEVER WOULD ACHIEVE THE FAME THWY NOW ENJOY. did I make any mention of Parla, Micallef, and Neate with regard to hype, Banksy, or anything of the sort? All I stated was that I hope the 'rushing to bad auction houses with work that is just too soon' ends before it hurts them. Simple. |
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Dreweatts Art Auctions π¬π§, by suburbangangstar on Oct 15, 2008 5:47:14 GMT 1, HOW CAN IT "HURT" THEM WHEN THEIR "VALUATIONS" ARE AT LEAST 4- 5x OF WHERE THEY WOULD BE GIVEN THEIR PORTFOLIOS. THEY'RE MERE EVOLUTIONARIES. PRETTY ART BUT STILL NOT IMPORTANT. BIG DISTINCTION.
HOW CAN IT "HURT" THEM WHEN THEIR "VALUATIONS" ARE AT LEAST 4- 5x OF WHERE THEY WOULD BE GIVEN THEIR PORTFOLIOS. THEY'RE MERE EVOLUTIONARIES. PRETTY ART BUT STILL NOT IMPORTANT. BIG DISTINCTION.
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Dreweatts Art Auctions π¬π§, by snausages on Oct 15, 2008 5:57:26 GMT 1, Ease, Parla, street is his roots and they are a huge part of his fan base. He shows not exclusively but mainly at galleries known for alternative and street art. He is part of this urban art scene plain and simple. I find it odd how much you don't want to associate him with it anyway.
I really don't want to waste time getting into tit for tat comparisons either. But Parlas prices have shot up about 6-10 times what they were about 1-2 years ago. That's exponential and there's really no solid base of support for those prices and there is still not yet critical support for it either. (Think stocks and technical levels of support.) It's happened to many an artists in this scene and in the contemporary art scene and the results aren't always good. Examples are plentiful to see and it's not a difficult concept that requires drawn out comparisons.
And imo the way you word things comes across as bigging up Parla. There's definitely a sense in how you talk about him and it's often the kind of language and thought we've seen applied to many a pumped artist.
Ease, Parla, street is his roots and they are a huge part of his fan base. He shows not exclusively but mainly at galleries known for alternative and street art. He is part of this urban art scene plain and simple. I find it odd how much you don't want to associate him with it anyway.
I really don't want to waste time getting into tit for tat comparisons either. But Parlas prices have shot up about 6-10 times what they were about 1-2 years ago. That's exponential and there's really no solid base of support for those prices and there is still not yet critical support for it either. (Think stocks and technical levels of support.) It's happened to many an artists in this scene and in the contemporary art scene and the results aren't always good. Examples are plentiful to see and it's not a difficult concept that requires drawn out comparisons.
And imo the way you word things comes across as bigging up Parla. There's definitely a sense in how you talk about him and it's often the kind of language and thought we've seen applied to many a pumped artist.
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Dreweatts Art Auctions π¬π§, by mose on Oct 15, 2008 6:16:31 GMT 1, HOW CAN IT "HURT" THEM WHEN THEIR "VALUATIONS" ARE AT LEAST 4- 5x OF WHERE THEY WOULD BE GIVEN THEIR PORTFOLIOS. THEY'RE MERE EVOLUTIONARIES. PRETTY ART BUT STILL NOT IMPORTANT. BIG DISTINCTION.
Bobby, the long-term impact of flooding auction houses with still-dripping art goes far beyond merely hurting 'valuations'.
And let's leave the concept of importance alone for now, as it is really best examined once the strict term 'contemporary' is no longer an appropriate description of the artist. I mean, Warhol was not the most popular in his day, being eclipsed by the likes of his contemporaries Johns and Rauschenberg. No one then would have predicted that Warhol would become the Dow Jones Industrial Average of the contemporary art market. No one would have seen Warhol 'inspiring' 1001 bad urban art screenprints either.
And evolutionary is very dicey to determine right now as well. For example, one might say of Basquiat, as Rene Ricard did in the famous 1981 essay 'Radiant Child', "If Cy Twombly and Jean Dubuffet had a baby and gave it up for adoption, it would be Jean-Michel. The elegance of Twombly is there but from the same source (graffiti) and so is the brut of the young Dubuffet" Why then is Basquiat considered a revolutionary when his lineage is so apparent and was, in fact, one of the early selling points of his gallery work?
HOW CAN IT "HURT" THEM WHEN THEIR "VALUATIONS" ARE AT LEAST 4- 5x OF WHERE THEY WOULD BE GIVEN THEIR PORTFOLIOS. THEY'RE MERE EVOLUTIONARIES. PRETTY ART BUT STILL NOT IMPORTANT. BIG DISTINCTION. Bobby, the long-term impact of flooding auction houses with still-dripping art goes far beyond merely hurting 'valuations'. And let's leave the concept of importance alone for now, as it is really best examined once the strict term 'contemporary' is no longer an appropriate description of the artist. I mean, Warhol was not the most popular in his day, being eclipsed by the likes of his contemporaries Johns and Rauschenberg. No one then would have predicted that Warhol would become the Dow Jones Industrial Average of the contemporary art market. No one would have seen Warhol 'inspiring' 1001 bad urban art screenprints either. And evolutionary is very dicey to determine right now as well. For example, one might say of Basquiat, as Rene Ricard did in the famous 1981 essay 'Radiant Child', "If Cy Twombly and Jean Dubuffet had a baby and gave it up for adoption, it would be Jean-Michel. The elegance of Twombly is there but from the same source (graffiti) and so is the brut of the young Dubuffet" Why then is Basquiat considered a revolutionary when his lineage is so apparent and was, in fact, one of the early selling points of his gallery work? |
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pezlow
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Dreweatts Art Auctions π¬π§, by pezlow on Oct 15, 2008 6:41:03 GMT 1, I don't think there can be any doubt that Parla is part of the urban art scene for all the reasons set out above.
On a more general level I agree with Mose. The whole concept of having an urban art auction at this stage is just too much too young. Dreweatt Neate are a great auction house with a long history BUT they are based in the south-west and have no real track record of selling contemporary art. They just don't have the client base for contemporary art that Sothebys or Christies do. These two auction houses (not bonhams) are the market leaders in contemporary art and I suspect it will be an awful long time before either of them have a dedicated urban art sale.
I don't think there can be any doubt that Parla is part of the urban art scene for all the reasons set out above.
On a more general level I agree with Mose. The whole concept of having an urban art auction at this stage is just too much too young. Dreweatt Neate are a great auction house with a long history BUT they are based in the south-west and have no real track record of selling contemporary art. They just don't have the client base for contemporary art that Sothebys or Christies do. These two auction houses (not bonhams) are the market leaders in contemporary art and I suspect it will be an awful long time before either of them have a dedicated urban art sale.
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RBK
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Dreweatts Art Auctions π¬π§, by RBK on Oct 15, 2008 7:19:55 GMT 1, This is one of the rare times I'll disagree with you pezlow.
Parla has some roots in urban art when he was Ease the graffiti writer, but there's no question imho Jose Parla's art is better labelled in the contemporary/fine art category.
This is one of the rare times I'll disagree with you pezlow.
Parla has some roots in urban art when he was Ease the graffiti writer, but there's no question imho Jose Parla's art is better labelled in the contemporary/fine art category.
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curiousgeorge
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March 2007
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Dreweatts Art Auctions π¬π§, by curiousgeorge on Oct 15, 2008 7:40:54 GMT 1, One swallow does not make a summer, did people really expect all estimates to be smashed?
What you saw was people exercising caution which is no bad thing IMO
One swallow does not make a summer, did people really expect all estimates to be smashed?
What you saw was people exercising caution which is no bad thing IMO
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oe32
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Dreweatts Art Auctions π¬π§, by oe32 on Oct 15, 2008 8:39:40 GMT 1, What did Paul Insect Elvis go for?
What did Paul Insect Elvis go for?
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pezlow
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Dreweatts Art Auctions π¬π§, by pezlow on Oct 15, 2008 9:12:14 GMT 1, Agreed Havana.
Looking at the results as a whole I can't see that any of was particularly unexpected. Many of the pieces sold for estimate anyway, so it is really not that bad. What do people expect given the current financial climate?
Agreed Havana.
Looking at the results as a whole I can't see that any of was particularly unexpected. Many of the pieces sold for estimate anyway, so it is really not that bad. What do people expect given the current financial climate?
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silvermyn
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Dreweatts Art Auctions π¬π§, by silvermyn on Oct 15, 2008 9:14:25 GMT 1, haha nice one photo, I really don't think this was the best auction or time to make a judgement on how Parla's star will shine. The Faile's all did well asides from that one on cardboard, which you can't expect much from to begin with. I can't wrap my head around how the Happy Chopper's sold for so little but then again with the current state of our economies, you can comprehend how. I have to say though my favorite part about the day was how each NW didn't sell, that was the truest answer for me on today's news. Oh, do you have the results on the failes? would be curious to see how they did.
Butterfly Girl 1/1 went for Β£5k. I think the others were all passed. The huge McBeth reached Β£1.3k but didn't sell. 
haha nice one photo, I really don't think this was the best auction or time to make a judgement on how Parla's star will shine. The Faile's all did well asides from that one on cardboard, which you can't expect much from to begin with. I can't wrap my head around how the Happy Chopper's sold for so little but then again with the current state of our economies, you can comprehend how. I have to say though my favorite part about the day was how each NW didn't sell, that was the truest answer for me on today's news. Oh, do you have the results on the failes? would be curious to see how they did. Butterfly Girl 1/1 went for Β£5k. I think the others were all passed. The huge McBeth reached Β£1.3k but didn't sell. |
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dslug
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Dreweatts Art Auctions π¬π§, by dslug on Oct 15, 2008 9:14:45 GMT 1, Go get em you angry little "Gang-Star" The all caps is a touch annoying but his sentiment is pretty accurate. And not 100% trustworthy are the final two parla bids coming in over the internet. The hammer price is more than fair though, considering I was offered a similar watercolour from Elms for about Β£4k 6 months ago. Price has already more than doubled. No offense to Parla, but hasn't anyone learned anything from the dozens of previous pump and dump hype ups we've already seen? How much more do his prices have to jump before they see a major correction too? The conspiracy theories here on this forum are just mad...i dont see how two late internet bids tells anyone here anything.I have used the saleroom to bid before and when there is bidding in the room then the delay on the internet means that every time you click the bid button it has already increased and therefore you might have clicked a number of times before you actually ever register a bid.IMHO based on using that system the internet only gets its chance after the room slows down.
Go get em you angry little "Gang-Star" The all caps is a touch annoying but his sentiment is pretty accurate. And not 100% trustworthy are the final two parla bids coming in over the internet. The hammer price is more than fair though, considering I was offered a similar watercolour from Elms for about Β£4k 6 months ago. Price has already more than doubled. No offense to Parla, but hasn't anyone learned anything from the dozens of previous pump and dump hype ups we've already seen? How much more do his prices have to jump before they see a major correction too? The conspiracy theories here on this forum are just mad...i dont see how two late internet bids tells anyone here anything.I have used the saleroom to bid before and when there is bidding in the room then the delay on the internet means that every time you click the bid button it has already increased and therefore you might have clicked a number of times before you actually ever register a bid.IMHO based on using that system the internet only gets its chance after the room slows down. |
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Pattycakes
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Dreweatts Art Auctions π¬π§, by Pattycakes on Oct 15, 2008 9:25:54 GMT 1, I think we'll see similarly bad results for the Bonham's sale coming up. The problem is that the majority of the buyers these sales target are now seriously hurting because of the financial shit pile we're in right now. What I think is really not realised is that in the most part the people who buy at the Urban sales are not Art Collectors, they are speculators who are jumping on the bandwagon, I know of very few major collectors of contemporary art who would consider a Banksy purchase, let alone Parla, Micallef et al. There is little to differentiate the dramatic and ridiculous rise in the values of Urban Art to the dramatic and ridiculous rise of the markets which so spectacularly crumbled (and took a lot of Banksy Buyers with them). As soon as Banksy prints started selling for more than Picassos and Warhols I realised that this ride was going to end very quickly - it's not sustainable when there are so many works out there signed and unsigned editions of between 150 and 750! These things are not rare, the demand for them is entirely based on supply, and with so many people hoarding vast numbers of Banksy prints it seemed as though there were not that many to go around, as soon as the flood gates opened and the secondary market came in to play the true picture became known. I can only see prices dropping even further, and quite rapidly at that.
I think we'll see similarly bad results for the Bonham's sale coming up. The problem is that the majority of the buyers these sales target are now seriously hurting because of the financial shit pile we're in right now. What I think is really not realised is that in the most part the people who buy at the Urban sales are not Art Collectors, they are speculators who are jumping on the bandwagon, I know of very few major collectors of contemporary art who would consider a Banksy purchase, let alone Parla, Micallef et al. There is little to differentiate the dramatic and ridiculous rise in the values of Urban Art to the dramatic and ridiculous rise of the markets which so spectacularly crumbled (and took a lot of Banksy Buyers with them). As soon as Banksy prints started selling for more than Picassos and Warhols I realised that this ride was going to end very quickly - it's not sustainable when there are so many works out there signed and unsigned editions of between 150 and 750! These things are not rare, the demand for them is entirely based on supply, and with so many people hoarding vast numbers of Banksy prints it seemed as though there were not that many to go around, as soon as the flood gates opened and the secondary market came in to play the true picture became known. I can only see prices dropping even further, and quite rapidly at that.
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motor
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Dreweatts Art Auctions π¬π§, by motor on Oct 15, 2008 9:26:17 GMT 1, Oh, do you have the results on the failes? would be curious to see how they did. Butterfly Girl 1/1 went for Β£5k. I think the others were all passed. The huge McBeth reached Β£1.3k but didn't sell.
BG (basicaly not an original but unique print) - Β£6K
My Confessions - Β£1200
Mirror, Mirror - didn't sell
There was one more:
Nothing Lasts Forever, 2006 Stencil spray paint on cardboard Signed and dated 2004 on reverse 15cm x 33cm Provenance: CampBarbossa This lot is accompanied by an email from Patrick McNeil (Faile) confirming its authenticity - luckily - passed.
I am a Faile fan but I have to say that this last one was just taking a piss (especially with those estimates Β£3K - Β£5K) and summed up the character of the whole auction 
Oh, do you have the results on the failes? would be curious to see how they did. Butterfly Girl 1/1 went for Β£5k. I think the others were all passed. The huge McBeth reached Β£1.3k but didn't sell. BG (basicaly not an original but unique print) - Β£6K My Confessions - Β£1200 Mirror, Mirror - didn't sell There was one more: Nothing Lasts Forever, 2006 Stencil spray paint on cardboard Signed and dated 2004 on reverse 15cm x 33cm Provenance: CampBarbossa This lot is accompanied by an email from Patrick McNeil (Faile) confirming its authenticity - luckily - passed. I am a Faile fan but I have to say that this last one was just taking a piss (especially with those estimates Β£3K - Β£5K) and summed up the character of the whole auction |
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Dreweatts Art Auctions π¬π§, by Gallery My Arse on Oct 15, 2008 9:36:17 GMT 1, I agree. Prices will continue to drop. I was at the auction yesterday and I got a sense that there was bidding up on the Parla and Os G works as people who "hold" their works want to see a good price achieved. Keep an eye out for the next artist hyped up on this forum. "Online galleries" get in there, buy up available works, talk nonsense on here, offload them a few weeks later with a tidy profit and move on a few months later to the next one. It's not conspiracy theory. It's just part of the business and the scummy people involved will hopefully get their fingers burned so I can buy a Nick Walker at a price not vastly inflated.
I agree. Prices will continue to drop. I was at the auction yesterday and I got a sense that there was bidding up on the Parla and Os G works as people who "hold" their works want to see a good price achieved. Keep an eye out for the next artist hyped up on this forum. "Online galleries" get in there, buy up available works, talk nonsense on here, offload them a few weeks later with a tidy profit and move on a few months later to the next one. It's not conspiracy theory. It's just part of the business and the scummy people involved will hopefully get their fingers burned so I can buy a Nick Walker at a price not vastly inflated.
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Dreweatts Art Auctions π¬π§, by jonpud on Oct 15, 2008 9:40:49 GMT 1, So whose greedy here, Nick & BRP for the pricing, or buyers after a quick buck snapping the pieces up to sell on within 6 months at auction houses inexperienced in street art? exactly - nick and brp have set their prices, and the people that have tried to make a quick buck have been caught out, but this is at the expense of nick walker's fans, who had to pay over the odds for his work, and were in many cases priced out
Just read through this thread, not a great night for most concerned but to be honest it was pretty much expected due to the auction house selling and the obviously deflated market at present!
As for Nick Walker, it goes without saying that I am an admirer of the majority of Nick's work, I am also an admirer of the man himself and his approachable nature.
I was disappointed that the prices were up for the BRP show in comparrison to the State side event, but I still bought and it wasn't with the intention of making a profit.
If YOU were the artist and had seen flippers cashing in on your work wouldn't YOU have raised your prices to a reasonable level? Why watch the flippers take the profit on YOUR hard work?
And lets put things into context here, Ratatouille for instance, it was sold for Β£4k in the States and increased to Β£5.5k in the UK, Nick didn't increase it to Β£10k (as he could have and no doubt it would still sell!) The Mona Canvas was Β£3k at source and sold for Β£50k, the price increase was 'realistic' in my mind and I beleive the majority of what sold that night would still sell for the price it was bought for. I beleive if I offered up my Ratatouille for Β£5.5k I would sell it pretty quickly.
Those who bought for profit ONLY are the ones who have been stung in all of this, those who bought for genuine reasons obviously don't like to see the pieces unsold, but, at the end of the day we bought for the love of the art, not for a quick profit. Mine is off to be framed and will give me many years of pleasure, the only people who will see a return on my canvas will be my children as they paid fuck all for it!
The only people here who have caused some to get there fingers burned are the Flippers and the greedy bastards such as LAZ. (Micallef prints being the icing on the cake, Β£4700 for an edition of 50 or a Nick Walker original for the same price, I know which I would sooner have!)
So whose greedy here, Nick & BRP for the pricing, or buyers after a quick buck snapping the pieces up to sell on within 6 months at auction houses inexperienced in street art? exactly - nick and brp have set their prices, and the people that have tried to make a quick buck have been caught out, but this is at the expense of nick walker's fans, who had to pay over the odds for his work, and were in many cases priced out Just read through this thread, not a great night for most concerned but to be honest it was pretty much expected due to the auction house selling and the obviously deflated market at present! As for Nick Walker, it goes without saying that I am an admirer of the majority of Nick's work, I am also an admirer of the man himself and his approachable nature. I was disappointed that the prices were up for the BRP show in comparrison to the State side event, but I still bought and it wasn't with the intention of making a profit. If YOU were the artist and had seen flippers cashing in on your work wouldn't YOU have raised your prices to a reasonable level? Why watch the flippers take the profit on YOUR hard work? And lets put things into context here, Ratatouille for instance, it was sold for Β£4k in the States and increased to Β£5.5k in the UK, Nick didn't increase it to Β£10k (as he could have and no doubt it would still sell!) The Mona Canvas was Β£3k at source and sold for Β£50k, the price increase was 'realistic' in my mind and I beleive the majority of what sold that night would still sell for the price it was bought for. I beleive if I offered up my Ratatouille for Β£5.5k I would sell it pretty quickly. Those who bought for profit ONLY are the ones who have been stung in all of this, those who bought for genuine reasons obviously don't like to see the pieces unsold, but, at the end of the day we bought for the love of the art, not for a quick profit. Mine is off to be framed and will give me many years of pleasure, the only people who will see a return on my canvas will be my children as they paid fuck all for it! The only people here who have caused some to get there fingers burned are the Flippers and the greedy bastards such as LAZ. (Micallef prints being the icing on the cake, Β£4700 for an edition of 50 or a Nick Walker original for the same price, I know which I would sooner have!) |
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guest2
Junior Member
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December 2006
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Dreweatts Art Auctions π¬π§, by guest2 on Oct 15, 2008 10:12:04 GMT 1, .... If YOU were the artist and had seen flippers cashing in on your work wouldn't YOU have raised your prices to a reasonable level? Why watch the flippers take the profit on YOUR hard work?
the thing is here, is that from a primary dealers point of a view the work should not just be sold to people who have the money or are 'in 1st'. The work should be sold to clients that want to hang the piece on their wall. If the artist and primary dealer have that plan and sell the work responsibly as opposed to 'quick' then you would not see many flippers or these pieces coming up in auction so soon. Of course you can't be 100% right all the time but you can def cut down the odds. Checks can be made.
.... If YOU were the artist and had seen flippers cashing in on your work wouldn't YOU have raised your prices to a reasonable level? Why watch the flippers take the profit on YOUR hard work? the thing is here, is that from a primary dealers point of a view the work should not just be sold to people who have the money or are 'in 1st'. The work should be sold to clients that want to hang the piece on their wall. If the artist and primary dealer have that plan and sell the work responsibly as opposed to 'quick' then you would not see many flippers or these pieces coming up in auction so soon. Of course you can't be 100% right all the time but you can def cut down the odds. Checks can be made. |
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Dreweatts Art Auctions π¬π§, by jonpud on Oct 15, 2008 10:15:56 GMT 1, .... If YOU were the artist and had seen flippers cashing in on your work wouldn't YOU have raised your prices to a reasonable level? Why watch the flippers take the profit on YOUR hard work? the thing is here, is that from a primary dealers point of a view the work should not just be sold to people who have the money or are 'in 1st'. The work should be sold to clients that want to hang the piece on their wall. If the artist and primary dealer have that plan and sell the work responsibly as opposed to 'quick' then you would not see many flippers or these pieces coming up in auction so soon. Of course you can't be 100% right all the time but you can def cut down the odds. Checks can be made.
Agreed! As much as we don't like it in general, those who get private viewings and buy before the show opens tend to be buying as they genuinely want the piece to hang on their wall. You don't see many pre-sold pieces turn up on the secondary market!
Many who moan because they didn't have access to buy are more gutted about the potential loss of profit rather than missing out on an original piece of art destined for theitr wall!!!
.... If YOU were the artist and had seen flippers cashing in on your work wouldn't YOU have raised your prices to a reasonable level? Why watch the flippers take the profit on YOUR hard work? the thing is here, is that from a primary dealers point of a view the work should not just be sold to people who have the money or are 'in 1st'. The work should be sold to clients that want to hang the piece on their wall. If the artist and primary dealer have that plan and sell the work responsibly as opposed to 'quick' then you would not see many flippers or these pieces coming up in auction so soon. Of course you can't be 100% right all the time but you can def cut down the odds. Checks can be made. Agreed! As much as we don't like it in general, those who get private viewings and buy before the show opens tend to be buying as they genuinely want the piece to hang on their wall. You don't see many pre-sold pieces turn up on the secondary market! Many who moan because they didn't have access to buy are more gutted about the potential loss of profit rather than missing out on an original piece of art destined for theitr wall!!! |
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Dreweatts Art Auctions π¬π§, by bobbyt23 on Oct 15, 2008 10:39:29 GMT 1, Indeed. Buy art for walls not for e-bay.
I dont mind pre-sales at all. Never been to one but like Pud says you dont often get flipped pieces from them.
I think the only piece I ever got before it officially went on sale was my Mantis AFD and that is still sitting pretty in it's nice new frame.
Indeed. Buy art for walls not for e-bay.
I dont mind pre-sales at all. Never been to one but like Pud says you dont often get flipped pieces from them.
I think the only piece I ever got before it officially went on sale was my Mantis AFD and that is still sitting pretty in it's nice new frame.
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Dreweatts Art Auctions π¬π§, by worlddomination on Oct 15, 2008 11:15:17 GMT 1, Everyone should be allowed to buy art for whatever reason they want to in my opinion. There are collectors and dealers in all forms of art, I don't see why people have this big hang up about people buying, collecting and selling. I buy I collect and yes I sell, I enjoy the buzz of it and the financial reward too. There's no guarantee that there is always a profit so there's an element of risk which is also part of fun of it. Art has been bought and sold for thousands of years it's no new thing that just appeared on the horizon, and here's a point that those of you who say you just collect and never sell, if nothing got bought and sold then there would be very little art to be talked about as it would never see the light of day. I had two pieces in that sale last night, two pieces that have been talked about in this thread numerous times. The people who know me know which one's they were, and that's where it rests, but let me tell all those people who do buy or are thinking about buying urban art because they like it and like the idea of maybe also making financial gains it was a great sale, and the money I made will go back into more urban art, some to keep and some to keep until the time is right for me to sell. Each to their own. Peace.
Everyone should be allowed to buy art for whatever reason they want to in my opinion. There are collectors and dealers in all forms of art, I don't see why people have this big hang up about people buying, collecting and selling. I buy I collect and yes I sell, I enjoy the buzz of it and the financial reward too. There's no guarantee that there is always a profit so there's an element of risk which is also part of fun of it. Art has been bought and sold for thousands of years it's no new thing that just appeared on the horizon, and here's a point that those of you who say you just collect and never sell, if nothing got bought and sold then there would be very little art to be talked about as it would never see the light of day. I had two pieces in that sale last night, two pieces that have been talked about in this thread numerous times. The people who know me know which one's they were, and that's where it rests, but let me tell all those people who do buy or are thinking about buying urban art because they like it and like the idea of maybe also making financial gains it was a great sale, and the money I made will go back into more urban art, some to keep and some to keep until the time is right for me to sell. Each to their own. Peace.
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Dreweatts Art Auctions π¬π§, by Daniel Silk on Oct 15, 2008 11:18:58 GMT 1, Everyone should be allowed to buy art for whatever reason they want to in my opinion. There are collectors and dealers in all forms of art, I don't see why people have this big hang up about people buying, collecting and selling. I buy I collect and yes I sell, I enjoy the buzz of it and the financial reward too. There's no guarantee that there is always a profit so there's an element of risk which is also part of fun of it. Art has been bought and sold for thousands of years it's no new thing that just appeared on the horizon, and here's a point that those of you who say you just collect and never sell, if nothing got bought and sold then there would be very little art to be talked about as it would never see the light of day. I had two pieces in that sale last night, two pieces that have been talked about in this thread numerous times. The people who know me know which one's they were, and that's where it rests, but let me tell all those people who do buy or are thinking about buying urban art because they like it and like the idea of making money it was a great sale, and the money I made will go back into more urban art, some to keep and some to keep until the time is right for me to sell. Each to their own. Peace.
Spot on!
Everyone should be allowed to buy art for whatever reason they want to in my opinion. There are collectors and dealers in all forms of art, I don't see why people have this big hang up about people buying, collecting and selling. I buy I collect and yes I sell, I enjoy the buzz of it and the financial reward too. There's no guarantee that there is always a profit so there's an element of risk which is also part of fun of it. Art has been bought and sold for thousands of years it's no new thing that just appeared on the horizon, and here's a point that those of you who say you just collect and never sell, if nothing got bought and sold then there would be very little art to be talked about as it would never see the light of day. I had two pieces in that sale last night, two pieces that have been talked about in this thread numerous times. The people who know me know which one's they were, and that's where it rests, but let me tell all those people who do buy or are thinking about buying urban art because they like it and like the idea of making money it was a great sale, and the money I made will go back into more urban art, some to keep and some to keep until the time is right for me to sell. Each to their own. Peace. Spot on! |
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dotdot
Junior Member
π¨οΈ 3,660
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December 2006
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Dreweatts Art Auctions π¬π§, by dotdot on Oct 15, 2008 11:40:54 GMT 1, I agree. Prices will continue to drop. I was at the auction yesterday and I got a sense that there was bidding up on the Parla and Os G works as people who "hold" their works want to see a good price achieved. Keep an eye out for the next artist hyped up on this forum. "Online galleries" get in there, buy up available works, talk nonsense on here, offload them a few weeks later with a tidy profit and move on a few months later to the next one. It's not conspiracy theory. It's just part of the business and the scummy people involved will hopefully get their fingers burned so I can buy a Nick Walker at a price not vastly inflated.
GMA - thanks for the info re last night - plenty of interesting
statements in there - i agree with most.
It's a shame that the process/strategy being adopted by the
few (on here) misleads a few others but then the forum is as
open to abuse as the next place of reference - that includes
papers and the like, people.
I agree. Prices will continue to drop. I was at the auction yesterday and I got a sense that there was bidding up on the Parla and Os G works as people who "hold" their works want to see a good price achieved. Keep an eye out for the next artist hyped up on this forum. "Online galleries" get in there, buy up available works, talk nonsense on here, offload them a few weeks later with a tidy profit and move on a few months later to the next one. It's not conspiracy theory. It's just part of the business and the scummy people involved will hopefully get their fingers burned so I can buy a Nick Walker at a price not vastly inflated. GMA - thanks for the info re last night - plenty of interesting statements in there - i agree with most. It's a shame that the process/strategy being adopted by the few (on here) misleads a few others but then the forum is as open to abuse as the next place of reference - that includes papers and the like, people. |
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Dreweatts Art Auctions π¬π§, by manty on Oct 15, 2008 13:27:11 GMT 1, Fair play to you for not playing the ' I am silky boss of the banksy forum card' and getting what i would imagine VIP treatment from these gallery guys
And full marks for not buying a print to flip :-)
Good point Frankie  I was thinking about the last D*Face show, and wondering how many people waiting in that line were only there to buy a print to flip the next day on ebay? When they were handing out the pieces of paper to the line so you had a print put by for you inside (Great Idea BTW) When I said I was not buying, they looked a bit shocked as if why would anybody be waiting here unless they want to buy a print Well, Im a D*Face Fan ;D so just being able to see the art was all I wanted ;D Sad but true!
Fair play to you for not playing the ' I am silky boss of the banksy forum card' and getting what i would imagine VIP treatment from these gallery guys And full marks for not buying a print to flip :-) Good point Frankie I was thinking about the last D*Face show, and wondering how many people waiting in that line were only there to buy a print to flip the next day on ebay? When they were handing out the pieces of paper to the line so you had a print put by for you inside (Great Idea BTW) When I said I was not buying, they looked a bit shocked as if why would anybody be waiting here unless they want to buy a print Well, Im a D*Face Fan ;D so just being able to see the art was all I wanted ;D Sad but true! |
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Dreweatts Art Auctions π¬π§, by Daniel Silk on Oct 15, 2008 13:59:30 GMT 1, Fair play to you for not playing the ' I am silky boss of the banksy forum card' and getting what i would imagine VIP treatment from these gallery guys And full marks for not buying a print to flip :-) Good point Frankie I was thinking about the last D*Face show, and wondering how many people waiting in that line were only there to buy a print to flip the next day on ebay? When they were handing out the pieces of paper to the line so you had a print put by for you inside (Great Idea BTW) When I said I was not buying, they looked a bit shocked as if why would anybody be waiting here unless they want to buy a print Well, Im a D*Face Fan ;D so just being able to see the art was all I wanted ;D Sad but true!
I did contact the gallery before the day to ask about if I could get in early so I could get photos clear of people, to post up on the forums for people that could not get to the show, but was told it was not possible so I just tried to do ma best in the mad crush for the prints.
Fair play to you for not playing the ' I am silky boss of the banksy forum card' and getting what i would imagine VIP treatment from these gallery guys And full marks for not buying a print to flip :-) Good point Frankie I was thinking about the last D*Face show, and wondering how many people waiting in that line were only there to buy a print to flip the next day on ebay? When they were handing out the pieces of paper to the line so you had a print put by for you inside (Great Idea BTW) When I said I was not buying, they looked a bit shocked as if why would anybody be waiting here unless they want to buy a print Well, Im a D*Face Fan ;D so just being able to see the art was all I wanted ;D Sad but true! I did contact the gallery before the day to ask about if I could get in early so I could get photos clear of people, to post up on the forums for people that could not get to the show, but was told it was not possible so I just tried to do ma best in the mad crush for the prints. |
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