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Neate 2am Blog, by shavemysoul on Aug 14, 2007 18:36:33 GMT 1, The prints are of amazing quality in themselves. But it's a little hard when you study the originals in real life to not feel taken to another level that the prints, in fairness of their phsyical/dimensional nature, just could never manage. Just my opinion. Prints still rock; nothing on the originals though. when is that not the case though?
Oh no, completely. What I think I meant to say is that I think the gap is bigger with Neate than with many artists. And the distance is caused by the quality of the originals, much more so than (if not entirely) the quality of the prints.
The prints are of amazing quality in themselves. But it's a little hard when you study the originals in real life to not feel taken to another level that the prints, in fairness of their phsyical/dimensional nature, just could never manage. Just my opinion. Prints still rock; nothing on the originals though. when is that not the case though? Oh no, completely. What I think I meant to say is that I think the gap is bigger with Neate than with many artists. And the distance is caused by the quality of the originals, much more so than (if not entirely) the quality of the prints. |
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Neate 2am Blog, by mammal2 on Aug 14, 2007 18:56:38 GMT 1, I was put off by the whole gig. Seems like the venue is set up for this sort of behaviour. To be honest, I think Elms Lesters actually encourages this kind of thing. The preview was restricted to people who have purchased prints before. Not surprising that many of the people invited are flippers. Message of the day seems to be - 'we'll invite you to our exclusive opening if you can help us inflate the price of anything we sell, especially on auction platforms such as Ebay....' Not impressed - by the prints to be honest. The originals rock, the prints are a chance for them to cash-in. so if you've bought before you're likely to be a flipper? que? the only reason the invites were limited was because so many ppl wanted to go, and who is it most fair to allow to come? Those who have bought previously? Or anyone who show's interest...I'm pretty sure Elms aren't alone in this kind of policy and I'd want to ensure the patronage of those who have bought with me before if I was doing... as for the prints debate...for most of us this is the the closest we'll get to owning an Adam Neate original so I'll take it  also the 'photocopy' comment dude..is a little out of order...I don't what kind of quality your photocopier is...but mine at work is a bag of Sh*te and that copmparison is pretty crazy really  also thinking on further surely the fact prints are going for a fair amount more is due purely to the fact they're in demand rather than invisible greed engine eminating from clever manipulation by Elms?
Agree with all your comments Carilto. Have'nt been on here too much of late due to a mash up in my flat. Hope you are cool. Right back to work...
I was put off by the whole gig. Seems like the venue is set up for this sort of behaviour. To be honest, I think Elms Lesters actually encourages this kind of thing. The preview was restricted to people who have purchased prints before. Not surprising that many of the people invited are flippers. Message of the day seems to be - 'we'll invite you to our exclusive opening if you can help us inflate the price of anything we sell, especially on auction platforms such as Ebay....' Not impressed - by the prints to be honest. The originals rock, the prints are a chance for them to cash-in. so if you've bought before you're likely to be a flipper? que? the only reason the invites were limited was because so many ppl wanted to go, and who is it most fair to allow to come? Those who have bought previously? Or anyone who show's interest...I'm pretty sure Elms aren't alone in this kind of policy and I'd want to ensure the patronage of those who have bought with me before if I was doing... as for the prints debate...for most of us this is the the closest we'll get to owning an Adam Neate original so I'll take it also the 'photocopy' comment dude..is a little out of order...I don't what kind of quality your photocopier is...but mine at work is a bag of Sh*te and that copmparison is pretty crazy really also thinking on further surely the fact prints are going for a fair amount more is due purely to the fact they're in demand rather than invisible greed engine eminating from clever manipulation by Elms? Agree with all your comments Carilto. Have'nt been on here too much of late due to a mash up in my flat. Hope you are cool. Right back to work... |
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skanky
New Member
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August 2007
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Neate 2am Blog, by skanky on Aug 14, 2007 19:22:29 GMT 1, Agreed Carlito cant get my head round why people have problems with Giclee prints, surely its whatever method gets the best results for the image. In this case to recreate the 3d effect and shadows from the cardboard. The quality of the printing at elms is superb and really gives you the effect of the original at a fraction of the price. Correct me if I am wrong but is 21st CL not a Giclee print, Micallef chose this method to get the best results for that image and lithographs for others. The detail on the two Neate self portraits in particular really shows the benifits of using this method . Happy days ;D
Agreed Carlito cant get my head round why people have problems with Giclee prints, surely its whatever method gets the best results for the image. In this case to recreate the 3d effect and shadows from the cardboard. The quality of the printing at elms is superb and really gives you the effect of the original at a fraction of the price. Correct me if I am wrong but is 21st CL not a Giclee print, Micallef chose this method to get the best results for that image and lithographs for others. The detail on the two Neate self portraits in particular really shows the benifits of using this method . Happy days ;D
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Imoy-San
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January 2007
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Neate 2am Blog, by Imoy-San on Aug 14, 2007 19:34:40 GMT 1, I really can't agree with you guys on the giclee / photocopy thing.
It's hard to see how I can justify buying one of those things in the current climate. There are loads of artists pushing the boundaries of printing, even some have merged giclee, screen print and hand embellishment.
The original has loads of artistic merit, but how much has a electronic reproduction got? Several thousand pounds worth?
They are amazing, but...
I really can't agree with you guys on the giclee / photocopy thing.
It's hard to see how I can justify buying one of those things in the current climate. There are loads of artists pushing the boundaries of printing, even some have merged giclee, screen print and hand embellishment.
The original has loads of artistic merit, but how much has a electronic reproduction got? Several thousand pounds worth?
They are amazing, but...
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Neate 2am Blog, by dave313perry on Aug 14, 2007 19:46:52 GMT 1, Agreed Carlito cant get my head round why people have problems with Giclee prints, surely its whatever method gets the best results for the image. In this case to recreate the 3d effect and shadows from the cardboard. The quality of the printing at elms is superb and really gives you the effect of the original at a fraction of the price. Correct me if I am wrong but is 21st CL not a Giclee print, Micallef chose this method to get the best results for that image and lithographs for others. The detail on the two Neate self portraits in particular really shows the benifits of using this method . Happy days ;D
Problem for me is the lack of input needed to create a giclee - screenprint for instance is a continuation of the artistic process, bringing individuality to each print, which can be controlled by the artist as well as printer resulting in A/P's and P/P's.
With Giclee prints its a matter of pressing a button abit of contrast alteration a command+P and your done, there is no consideration, i grant you that some images certainly work better via giclee which is all good, but i dont think that anyone should ever charge more than £50 for a Giclee, mainly because if you claim that you like giclee's to get an image onto your wall then buy a £200 giclee, get it scanned yourself get it printed, and it will cost you about £20 get it framed and onto your wall and sell the original £200 Giclee on ebay and youve got yourself a carbon copy!
Investment wise i also think they are very very dubious, especially if unsigned, they can be copied down to the very last detail, embossing, seals and similar can be copied at the drop of a hat, and no doubt will be in the future. Screenprints can also be copied but if analysed closely, in the future perhaps when they are worth 10's of thousands, a fake screenprint will be seperable from an original using elements such as the signature, right down to the colour and pigments in the inks.
Iv said this several times buit the money going into giclees scares the hell out of me!
Agreed Carlito cant get my head round why people have problems with Giclee prints, surely its whatever method gets the best results for the image. In this case to recreate the 3d effect and shadows from the cardboard. The quality of the printing at elms is superb and really gives you the effect of the original at a fraction of the price. Correct me if I am wrong but is 21st CL not a Giclee print, Micallef chose this method to get the best results for that image and lithographs for others. The detail on the two Neate self portraits in particular really shows the benifits of using this method . Happy days ;D Problem for me is the lack of input needed to create a giclee - screenprint for instance is a continuation of the artistic process, bringing individuality to each print, which can be controlled by the artist as well as printer resulting in A/P's and P/P's. With Giclee prints its a matter of pressing a button abit of contrast alteration a command+P and your done, there is no consideration, i grant you that some images certainly work better via giclee which is all good, but i dont think that anyone should ever charge more than £50 for a Giclee, mainly because if you claim that you like giclee's to get an image onto your wall then buy a £200 giclee, get it scanned yourself get it printed, and it will cost you about £20 get it framed and onto your wall and sell the original £200 Giclee on ebay and youve got yourself a carbon copy! Investment wise i also think they are very very dubious, especially if unsigned, they can be copied down to the very last detail, embossing, seals and similar can be copied at the drop of a hat, and no doubt will be in the future. Screenprints can also be copied but if analysed closely, in the future perhaps when they are worth 10's of thousands, a fake screenprint will be seperable from an original using elements such as the signature, right down to the colour and pigments in the inks. Iv said this several times buit the money going into giclees scares the hell out of me! |
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skanky
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August 2007
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Neate 2am Blog, by skanky on Aug 14, 2007 20:21:26 GMT 1, This is a very common argument and I respect your opinion but I have to agree to disagree it really doesnt bother me " investment wise " the prints that we are discussing are all hand signed limited editions of the highest quality. I cant see anyone paying thousands for an unsigned photocopy. The reason they command the prices they do is that they are so in demand . How can a print like 21st CL be a worry to anyone, I would feel priveleged to own one
This is a very common argument and I respect your opinion but I have to agree to disagree it really doesnt bother me " investment wise " the prints that we are discussing are all hand signed limited editions of the highest quality. I cant see anyone paying thousands for an unsigned photocopy. The reason they command the prices they do is that they are so in demand . How can a print like 21st CL be a worry to anyone, I would feel priveleged to own one
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Imoy-San
Junior Member
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January 2007
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Neate 2am Blog, by Imoy-San on Aug 14, 2007 20:36:45 GMT 1, I really think there will be a schism somewhere along the lines.
There will be the purists, the people who believe in screenprints, and those that favour giclee's.
It will invariably have an impact on price and whether people feel something is worthy of being in a collection.
Technology will win, collectors will have to compromise.
I really think there will be a schism somewhere along the lines.
There will be the purists, the people who believe in screenprints, and those that favour giclee's.
It will invariably have an impact on price and whether people feel something is worthy of being in a collection.
Technology will win, collectors will have to compromise.
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Neate 2am Blog, by dave313perry on Aug 14, 2007 20:43:50 GMT 1, What happens when someone decides to source the paper of Micallefs DD and 21C Buys the exact same printer that printed them, fakes the signature and sells them on ebay for 10k weekly?? only a signature expert would tell the difference and who gets theirs checked when they purchase from ebay??? its not like the profit isnt worthy of the hassle for some crook!
What happens when someone decides to source the paper of Micallefs DD and 21C Buys the exact same printer that printed them, fakes the signature and sells them on ebay for 10k weekly?? only a signature expert would tell the difference and who gets theirs checked when they purchase from ebay??? its not like the profit isnt worthy of the hassle for some crook!
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Neate 2am Blog, by carlito on Aug 14, 2007 20:48:08 GMT 1, I'm sorry but I couldn't care less about the print process ..I'm buying for the pleasure of the image...as long as it isn't photocopy quality which these are quite pointedly are NOT...I don't favour either process I don't care.
I'm not knowledgeable on the processes that occur and maybe that's my bad but really - I love the images Neate presents and thats all that bothers me
oi oi Mammal u coming to Eine next week?
I'm sorry but I couldn't care less about the print process ..I'm buying for the pleasure of the image...as long as it isn't photocopy quality which these are quite pointedly are NOT...I don't favour either process I don't care. I'm not knowledgeable on the processes that occur and maybe that's my bad but really - I love the images Neate presents and thats all that bothers me oi oi Mammal u coming to Eine next week? |
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skanky
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August 2007
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Neate 2am Blog, by skanky on Aug 14, 2007 20:58:25 GMT 1, What happens when someone cuts a stencil and copies banksy on canvas and sells on ebay etc as an original ? I am sure its happened does that mean spray paint and canvas are dubious mediums ? Forgery has been around for centuries and many top experts have been fooled before in all mediums , there is only one rule when buying the provenance has to be rock solid.
What happens when someone cuts a stencil and copies banksy on canvas and sells on ebay etc as an original ? I am sure its happened does that mean spray paint and canvas are dubious mediums ? Forgery has been around for centuries and many top experts have been fooled before in all mediums , there is only one rule when buying the provenance has to be rock solid.
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Simococo
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April 2007
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Neate 2am Blog, by Simococo on Aug 14, 2007 21:01:42 GMT 1, I don't have an issue with Neates Giclees beacuse the quality is top drawer. Good luck to Adam, Fiona and Paul if the extra £750,000 they made allows them to produce more great work, earn a living and sponsor new talent then surely we all benefit in the long run. An artist can only make so many originals and this is the 21st century so technology is always going to offer a solution.
I don't have an issue with Neates Giclees beacuse the quality is top drawer. Good luck to Adam, Fiona and Paul if the extra £750,000 they made allows them to produce more great work, earn a living and sponsor new talent then surely we all benefit in the long run. An artist can only make so many originals and this is the 21st century so technology is always going to offer a solution.
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Neate 2am Blog, by dave313perry on Aug 14, 2007 21:05:00 GMT 1, What happens when someone cuts a stencil and copies banksy on canvas and sells on ebay etc as an original ? I am sure its happened does that mean spray paint and canvas are dubious mediums ? Forgery has been around for centuries and many top experts have been fooled before in all mediums , there is only one rule when buying the provenance has to be rock solid.
It has been attempted time after time, each one sniffed out. Provenance is the key but Banksy's are easily distinguishable - hence hes the no.1!
But your talking about originals, totally different area. His early originals cant and wont be authenticated officially from what Iv heard, but more recent pieces are sold via LAZ and lets face it old becks and robbie williams wouldnt likely to be hanging a replica canvas!
What happens when someone cuts a stencil and copies banksy on canvas and sells on ebay etc as an original ? I am sure its happened does that mean spray paint and canvas are dubious mediums ? Forgery has been around for centuries and many top experts have been fooled before in all mediums , there is only one rule when buying the provenance has to be rock solid. It has been attempted time after time, each one sniffed out. Provenance is the key but Banksy's are easily distinguishable - hence hes the no.1! But your talking about originals, totally different area. His early originals cant and wont be authenticated officially from what Iv heard, but more recent pieces are sold via LAZ and lets face it old becks and robbie williams wouldnt likely to be hanging a replica canvas! |
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skanky
New Member
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August 2007
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Neate 2am Blog, by skanky on Aug 14, 2007 21:10:26 GMT 1, What happens when someone cuts a stencil and copies banksy on canvas and sells on ebay etc as an original ? I am sure its happened does that mean spray paint and canvas are dubious mediums ? Forgery has been around for centuries and many top experts have been fooled before in all mediums , there is only one rule when buying the provenance has to be rock solid. It has been attempted time after time, each one sniffed out. Provenance is the key but Banksy's are easily distinguishable - hence hes the no.1! But your talking about originals, totally different area. His early originals cant and wont be authenticated officially from what Iv heard, but more recent pieces are sold via LAZ and lets face it old becks and robbie williams wouldnt likely to be hanging a replica canvas!
Exactly the point I was making fakes will always be sniffed out
What happens when someone cuts a stencil and copies banksy on canvas and sells on ebay etc as an original ? I am sure its happened does that mean spray paint and canvas are dubious mediums ? Forgery has been around for centuries and many top experts have been fooled before in all mediums , there is only one rule when buying the provenance has to be rock solid. It has been attempted time after time, each one sniffed out. Provenance is the key but Banksy's are easily distinguishable - hence hes the no.1! But your talking about originals, totally different area. His early originals cant and wont be authenticated officially from what Iv heard, but more recent pieces are sold via LAZ and lets face it old becks and robbie williams wouldnt likely to be hanging a replica canvas! Exactly the point I was making fakes will always be sniffed out |
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JD
Junior Member
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June 2007
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Neate 2am Blog, by JD on Aug 14, 2007 23:14:52 GMT 1, Lots of chat about investment,photocopies,not as good as originals etc but I have to say my Cold War and Come On are amongst the best prints I have. They take me to another place which is the point isnt it ? They make me think. They are clever,they have dual meaning. I hope they drop in value to close to zero so my head never has to upset my heart by selling.Good art for your wall not your bank vault, potfolio or whatever some people .
Lots of chat about investment,photocopies,not as good as originals etc but I have to say my Cold War and Come On are amongst the best prints I have. They take me to another place which is the point isnt it ? They make me think. They are clever,they have dual meaning. I hope they drop in value to close to zero so my head never has to upset my heart by selling.Good art for your wall not your bank vault, potfolio or whatever some people .
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organics1
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December 2006
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Neate 2am Blog, by manty on Aug 16, 2007 10:22:12 GMT 1, How much were these from the Gallery when they were available ?
How much were these from the Gallery when they were available ?
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Strange Al
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October 2006
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Neate 2am Blog, by Strange Al on Aug 16, 2007 10:26:53 GMT 1, How much were these from the Gallery when they were available ?
£900
How much were these from the Gallery when they were available ? £900 |
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Neate 2am Blog, by verbalkint on Aug 16, 2007 14:50:20 GMT 1, I was put off by the whole gig. Seems like the venue is set up for this sort of behaviour. To be honest, I think Elms Lesters actually encourages this kind of thing. The preview was restricted to people who have purchased prints before. Not surprising that many of the people invited are flippers. Message of the day seems to be - 'we'll invite you to our exclusive opening if you can help us inflate the price of anything we sell, especially on auction platforms such as Ebay....' Not impressed - by the prints to be honest. The originals rock, the prints are a chance for them to cash-in.
What Paul and Fiona decided was, that seen as the preview could have been filled 10 times over, they would send out single invites instead of plus 1's and they would restrict the guest list to people who have supported the gallery in the past. I know forum members who have been to every single Elms show this year and who were going long before Adam neate was even on their books, supporting the gallery. Obviously they cannot snub those people for an invite can they?
I try to go to elms every time im in london just to see whats happening/say hello, and yes i have bought from the gallery before. At some of the other previews its not full at all, but then the Neate show comes along and everyone is calling either for an invite or to buy an original, Pauls first question is usually 'have you been to the gallery before'? I think this is a totally fair way of doing things. In life you help the people who have helped you, Right?
I was put off by the whole gig. Seems like the venue is set up for this sort of behaviour. To be honest, I think Elms Lesters actually encourages this kind of thing. The preview was restricted to people who have purchased prints before. Not surprising that many of the people invited are flippers. Message of the day seems to be - 'we'll invite you to our exclusive opening if you can help us inflate the price of anything we sell, especially on auction platforms such as Ebay....' Not impressed - by the prints to be honest. The originals rock, the prints are a chance for them to cash-in. What Paul and Fiona decided was, that seen as the preview could have been filled 10 times over, they would send out single invites instead of plus 1's and they would restrict the guest list to people who have supported the gallery in the past. I know forum members who have been to every single Elms show this year and who were going long before Adam neate was even on their books, supporting the gallery. Obviously they cannot snub those people for an invite can they? I try to go to elms every time im in london just to see whats happening/say hello, and yes i have bought from the gallery before. At some of the other previews its not full at all, but then the Neate show comes along and everyone is calling either for an invite or to buy an original, Pauls first question is usually 'have you been to the gallery before'? I think this is a totally fair way of doing things. In life you help the people who have helped you, Right? |
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Neate 2am Blog, by carlito on Aug 16, 2007 15:17:16 GMT 1, -71 and +71 living in perfect harmony...side by side on my piano...
-71 and +71 living in perfect harmony...side by side on my piano... |
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Neate 2am Blog, by insite on Aug 16, 2007 15:45:13 GMT 1, -71 and +71 living in perfect harmony...side by side on my piano...
Hah spoilt you're song 
And what's this down the caff get back to work
-71 and +71 living in perfect harmony...side by side on my piano... Hah spoilt you're song And what's this down the caff get back to work |
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Neate 2am Blog, by carlito on Aug 16, 2007 15:52:00 GMT 1, -71 and +71 living in perfect harmony...side by side on my piano... Hah spoilt you're song And what's this down the caff get back to work
nahhh mate cup of tea and some monster munch is where it's at ;D
-71 and +71 living in perfect harmony...side by side on my piano... Hah spoilt you're song And what's this down the caff get back to work nahhh mate cup of tea and some monster munch is where it's at ;D |
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Neate 2am Blog, by insite on Aug 16, 2007 16:14:37 GMT 1, Tea and monster munch ? bring back the biscuit thread.
Tea and monster munch ? bring back the biscuit thread.
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Neate 2am Blog, by carlito on Aug 16, 2007 16:29:48 GMT 1, Carlo. How am I going to find my way back to Liverpool Street station if you don't go tonight? 
by not getting so drunk ;D if i'm done with house stuff early i'll pop down
Carlo. How am I going to find my way back to Liverpool Street station if you don't go tonight? by not getting so drunk ;D if i'm done with house stuff early i'll pop down |
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romanywg
Junior Member
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October 2006
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Neate 2am Blog, by romanywg on Aug 17, 2007 9:50:01 GMT 1, Went along to Elms Lester yesterday and was blown away by the exhibition and am now another Adam Neate fanatic. The giclees looked outstanding and if anyone wants to swop either 'Red Portrait' or 'The cold war continues' for a Micallef Angel Bomber?
Went along to Elms Lester yesterday and was blown away by the exhibition and am now another Adam Neate fanatic. The giclees looked outstanding and if anyone wants to swop either 'Red Portrait' or 'The cold war continues' for a Micallef Angel Bomber? |
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Neate 2am Blog, by manchestermike on Aug 17, 2007 11:00:03 GMT 1, Went along to Elms Lester yesterday and was blown away by the exhibition and am now another Adam Neate fanatic. The giclees looked outstanding and if anyone wants to swop either 'Red Portrait' or 'The cold war continues' for a Micallef Angel Bomber?
You'll struggle with the portrait mate, even with a pair of Angel Bombers! Could get Litvenenko though not a bad deal there - good luck, it's a cracker
Went along to Elms Lester yesterday and was blown away by the exhibition and am now another Adam Neate fanatic. The giclees looked outstanding and if anyone wants to swop either 'Red Portrait' or 'The cold war continues' for a Micallef Angel Bomber? You'll struggle with the portrait mate, even with a pair of Angel Bombers! Could get Litvenenko though not a bad deal there - good luck, it's a cracker |
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Montubu7
Junior Member
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November 2006
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Neate 2am Blog, by Montubu7 on Aug 17, 2007 11:02:15 GMT 1, Adam neate rocks my f**king socks!
Adam neate rocks my f**king socks!
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pezlow
Junior Member
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January 2007
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Neate 2am Blog, by pezlow on Aug 17, 2007 11:04:35 GMT 1, I defy anyone who goes to this exhibition not to come away a huge neate fan. Not surprised you have been converted romany.
I defy anyone who goes to this exhibition not to come away a huge neate fan. Not surprised you have been converted romany.
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Neate 2am Blog, by manchestermike on Aug 17, 2007 11:06:44 GMT 1, Indeed...
Whips on almost everything else from a massive height
Indeed...
Whips on almost everything else from a massive height
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Neate 2am Blog, by carlito on Aug 17, 2007 11:09:35 GMT 1, genuinely exciting eh? this is what Art should be about pieces that move you...so glad I came across Adam a while back wicked stuff
genuinely exciting eh? this is what Art should be about pieces that move you...so glad I came across Adam a while back wicked stuff
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