|
|
Bloomsbury Auctions ๐ฌ๐ง, by robertlondon on Nov 28, 2007 18:32:23 GMT 1, I think all this must be taken in the context of a lack of confidence in the UK at present.
Northern Rock... Child Benefit details... Labour's funding scam... anticipated house prices levelling out... reports of low spending on the high street in the run up to Christmas... there's little to instill security in people's minds.
We've seen people selling 6 months ago and I personally thought they were mad... but perhaps, they realized that the market would definately turn downwards at some point and thought they'd make more money then, rather than waiting 5 years for the price to go any higher?
I think all this must be taken in the context of a lack of confidence in the UK at present.
Northern Rock... Child Benefit details... Labour's funding scam... anticipated house prices levelling out... reports of low spending on the high street in the run up to Christmas... there's little to instill security in people's minds.
We've seen people selling 6 months ago and I personally thought they were mad... but perhaps, they realized that the market would definately turn downwards at some point and thought they'd make more money then, rather than waiting 5 years for the price to go any higher?
|
|
|
|
Bloomsbury Auctions ๐ฌ๐ง, by jonpud on Nov 28, 2007 18:33:30 GMT 1, Big apologies to all. I was cutting and pasting so quick I did not realise Mike was up to the same. Even worse he beat me to the draw on everyone..... 
No worries Neil, I just thought they were selling 2 of everything!
Thanks for the updates, pretty much all as expected I reckon!?
Big apologies to all. I was cutting and pasting so quick I did not realise Mike was up to the same. Even worse he beat me to the draw on everyone..... No worries Neil, I just thought they were selling 2 of everything! Thanks for the updates, pretty much all as expected I reckon!? |
|
jam
Junior Member
๐จ๏ธ 1,629
๐๐ป 31
November 2006
|
Bloomsbury Auctions ๐ฌ๐ง, by jam on Nov 28, 2007 18:39:00 GMT 1, Big apologies to all. I was cutting and pasting so quick I did not realise Mike was up to the same. Even worse he beat me to the draw on everyone..... Edit: Thanks for the neg - I think I deserved it for repetition.... 
+ from me mate... you were just trying to inform those who weren't watching! 
Big apologies to all. I was cutting and pasting so quick I did not realise Mike was up to the same. Even worse he beat me to the draw on everyone..... Edit: Thanks for the neg - I think I deserved it for repetition.... + from me mate... you were just trying to inform those who weren't watching! |
|
|
|
Bloomsbury Auctions ๐ฌ๐ง, by buffin on Nov 28, 2007 18:42:02 GMT 1, Neil - I appreciated you putting the full names of the pieces up so +1 from me. Is it just me that struggles with some of the abbreviations?
Neil - I appreciated you putting the full names of the pieces up so +1 from me. Is it just me that struggles with some of the abbreviations?
|
|
pw
New Member
๐จ๏ธ 308
๐๐ป 1
October 2006
|
Bloomsbury Auctions ๐ฌ๐ง, by pw on Nov 28, 2007 18:57:03 GMT 1, Prices imo will be low due to closeness to xmas - nightmare time to sell
i agree. i remember this time last year was exactly the same scenario. prices started falling through december and january. then lo and behold when february came along with the start of the new auction season prices took off again.
worries over the state of the econonmy and over-supply of prints may be part of the problem but i believe that its largely due to a seasonal dip.
Prices imo will be low due to closeness to xmas - nightmare time to sell i agree. i remember this time last year was exactly the same scenario. prices started falling through december and january. then lo and behold when february came along with the start of the new auction season prices took off again. worries over the state of the econonmy and over-supply of prints may be part of the problem but i believe that its largely due to a seasonal dip. |
|
dmandpenfold
Junior Member
๐จ๏ธ 2,466
๐๐ป 10
December 2006
|
Bloomsbury Auctions ๐ฌ๐ง, by dmandpenfold on Nov 28, 2007 18:57:18 GMT 1, big thanks to Mike and Harvyn for keeping everyone up to speed, i was watching the bidding, no way i could have typed that quick, fast fingers indeed 
Made a list while i was watching the auction, see below for summary if anyone's interested c/w names in full;
- Pulp Fiction 6K
- Golf Sale 4k
- HMV 3.6k
- Morons BW 2.2k
- Morons Pooh 1.7k
- Grin Reaper 4k
- Jack and Jill 4.6k
- Flying Copper u/s 1.4k
- Pulp Fiction u/s 2k
- HMV u/s 1.4k
- Love is in the Air u/s 1.4k
- Weston Super Mare u/s 1.9k
- Love Rat u/s 800
- Turf War u/s 1.2k
- Monkey Queen u/s 950
- Toxic Mary u/s 800
- CND Soldiers u/s 800
- I fought the law u/s 750
- Napalm u/s 700
- Grannies u/s 750
- Applause u/s 550
that's it please point out any errors, i bid on Love Rat and Applause, but lost
Edit: naturally some of these didnt make reserve
Edit2: and of course you have to add 22.5% for the buyers premium, 4% for the artists re-sale rights and 17.5% VAT on the fees dunno how they'll pay banksy, no one knows who he is 
big thanks to Mike and Harvyn for keeping everyone up to speed, i was watching the bidding, no way i could have typed that quick, fast fingers indeed Made a list while i was watching the auction, see below for summary if anyone's interested c/w names in full; - Pulp Fiction 6K
- Golf Sale 4k
- HMV 3.6k
- Morons BW 2.2k
- Morons Pooh 1.7k
- Grin Reaper 4k
- Jack and Jill 4.6k
- Flying Copper u/s 1.4k
- Pulp Fiction u/s 2k
- HMV u/s 1.4k
- Love is in the Air u/s 1.4k
- Weston Super Mare u/s 1.9k
- Love Rat u/s 800
- Turf War u/s 1.2k
- Monkey Queen u/s 950
- Toxic Mary u/s 800
- CND Soldiers u/s 800
- I fought the law u/s 750
- Napalm u/s 700
- Grannies u/s 750
- Applause u/s 550
that's it please point out any errors, i bid on Love Rat and Applause, but lost Edit: naturally some of these didnt make reserve Edit2: and of course you have to add 22.5% for the buyers premium, 4% for the artists re-sale rights and 17.5% VAT on the fees dunno how they'll pay banksy, no one knows who he is |
|
|
|
jellya
Junior Member
๐จ๏ธ 2,740
๐๐ป 338
November 2006
|
Bloomsbury Auctions ๐ฌ๐ง, by jellya on Nov 28, 2007 19:02:11 GMT 1, WSM unsigned did well. Been going for a lot recently.
WSM unsigned did well. Been going for a lot recently.
|
|
Harveyn
Full Member
๐จ๏ธ 7,746
๐๐ป 4,900
July 2007
|
Bloomsbury Auctions ๐ฌ๐ง, by Harveyn on Nov 28, 2007 19:04:11 GMT 1, Good Summary DP...+1
A Dieter Roth (1930-1998) piece "reykjavic" (d.36) just sold for ยฃ360 or failed to make reserve. When I was in the Tate Modern on Sunday his stencil work was some of the best on show.
Good Summary DP...+1
A Dieter Roth (1930-1998) piece "reykjavic" (d.36) just sold for ยฃ360 or failed to make reserve. When I was in the Tate Modern on Sunday his stencil work was some of the best on show.
|
|
|
|
Bloomsbury Auctions ๐ฌ๐ง, by manty on Nov 28, 2007 19:09:57 GMT 1, The only thing this auction has shown me, is that if you chose to sell your Mic or Neate dont try to sell it to an audience who hasnt even heard of them before :-)
The only thing this auction has shown me, is that if you chose to sell your Mic or Neate dont try to sell it to an audience who hasnt even heard of them before :-)
|
|
jellya
Junior Member
๐จ๏ธ 2,740
๐๐ป 338
November 2006
|
Bloomsbury Auctions ๐ฌ๐ง, by jellya on Nov 28, 2007 19:13:06 GMT 1,
What!!
|
|
Harveyn
Full Member
๐จ๏ธ 7,746
๐๐ป 4,900
July 2007
|
Bloomsbury Auctions ๐ฌ๐ง, by Harveyn on Nov 28, 2007 19:13:33 GMT 1, Andy Warhol (1928-1987) red lenin ยฃ32k
Andy Warhol (1928-1987) red lenin ยฃ32k
|
|
sammyboy999
New Member
๐จ๏ธ 7
๐๐ป 0
October 2007
|
Bloomsbury Auctions ๐ฌ๐ง, by sammyboy999 on Nov 28, 2007 20:31:30 GMT 1, So, is it right that buyers at auction are paying an extra 44% on top of the hammer price?
22.5% Commision
4% Artist resale rights
17.5% VAT
Surely the only people making a profit are the auctioneers!!
So, is it right that buyers at auction are paying an extra 44% on top of the hammer price?
22.5% Commision
4% Artist resale rights
17.5% VAT
Surely the only people making a profit are the auctioneers!!
|
|
rydal
New Member
๐จ๏ธ 109
๐๐ป 3
October 2006
|
Bloomsbury Auctions ๐ฌ๐ง, by rydal on Nov 28, 2007 20:43:19 GMT 1, At the beginning of this thread there was a discussion of whether it is worth paying a premium at auction in order to benefit from the additional protection it provides. Whilst I must admit that I have never even been to an art auction I'm not sure this perceived protection extends as far as many would imagine.
For example see para 7 of Bloomsbury's conditions, this is only one of several exclusion clauses, which, as you will see specifically excludes liability in respect of genuineness and provenance. And before you ask, yes this clause will almost certainly stand up.
"7. Any representation or statement by the Auctioneer in any catalogue, brochure or advertisement of forthcoming sales as to authorship, attribution, genuineness, origin, date, age, provenance, condition or estimate selling price is a statement of opinion only. Every person interest should exercise and rely on his own judgement as to such matters and neither the Auctioneer nor his servants or agents are responsible for the correctness of such opinions. No warranty whatsover is given by the Auctioneer or the seller in respect of any lot and any express or implied warranties are hereby excluded".
I do acknowledge however that there is limited protection for buyers in connection with "deliberate forgeries".
I have been involved in several cases involving goods purchased from auctions and they were a nightmare, certainly scared me off auctions!
Remember that all provisions of the Sale of Goods Act (including those relating to description) can be validly excluded in auctions so this won't help out a buyer. Interestingly however e-bay is not regarded as an aution in the legal sense as the final price is actually determined by the elapse of time rather than the highest price a bidder is prepared to pay.
If anybody is interested, and when I have a spare minute, I am happy to put together some information from a legal perspective regarding a seller's liability for pieces that turn out not to be authentic or are misdescribed - from an auction or otherwise. Let me know.
Meanwhile, well done to everybody who picked up a bargain.
At the beginning of this thread there was a discussion of whether it is worth paying a premium at auction in order to benefit from the additional protection it provides. Whilst I must admit that I have never even been to an art auction I'm not sure this perceived protection extends as far as many would imagine.
For example see para 7 of Bloomsbury's conditions, this is only one of several exclusion clauses, which, as you will see specifically excludes liability in respect of genuineness and provenance. And before you ask, yes this clause will almost certainly stand up.
"7. Any representation or statement by the Auctioneer in any catalogue, brochure or advertisement of forthcoming sales as to authorship, attribution, genuineness, origin, date, age, provenance, condition or estimate selling price is a statement of opinion only. Every person interest should exercise and rely on his own judgement as to such matters and neither the Auctioneer nor his servants or agents are responsible for the correctness of such opinions. No warranty whatsover is given by the Auctioneer or the seller in respect of any lot and any express or implied warranties are hereby excluded".
I do acknowledge however that there is limited protection for buyers in connection with "deliberate forgeries".
I have been involved in several cases involving goods purchased from auctions and they were a nightmare, certainly scared me off auctions!
Remember that all provisions of the Sale of Goods Act (including those relating to description) can be validly excluded in auctions so this won't help out a buyer. Interestingly however e-bay is not regarded as an aution in the legal sense as the final price is actually determined by the elapse of time rather than the highest price a bidder is prepared to pay.
If anybody is interested, and when I have a spare minute, I am happy to put together some information from a legal perspective regarding a seller's liability for pieces that turn out not to be authentic or are misdescribed - from an auction or otherwise. Let me know.
Meanwhile, well done to everybody who picked up a bargain.
|
|
dmandpenfold
Junior Member
๐จ๏ธ 2,466
๐๐ป 10
December 2006
|
Bloomsbury Auctions ๐ฌ๐ง, by dmandpenfold on Nov 28, 2007 20:49:12 GMT 1, nice one rydal, i reckon there would be plenty of interest in your offer, maybe it could be put in as a sticky thread somewhere on the forum as a reference section for anyone to use
nice one rydal, i reckon there would be plenty of interest in your offer, maybe it could be put in as a sticky thread somewhere on the forum as a reference section for anyone to use
|
|
|
|
dmandpenfold
Junior Member
๐จ๏ธ 2,466
๐๐ป 10
December 2006
|
Bloomsbury Auctions ๐ฌ๐ง, by dmandpenfold on Nov 28, 2007 20:52:25 GMT 1, So, is it right that buyers at auction are paying an extra 44% on top of the hammer price? 22.5% Commision 4% Artist resale rights 17.5% VAT Surely the only people making a profit are the auctioneers!!
not quite, you pay the commision and sometimes the artist rights depending on the artist (interesting to see the banksy's had artist re-sale rights but not the bleks, what about art for the masses?) you only pay 17.5% VAT on the fees, not the cost of the item you bid on, so it would be more like 28-30%.
Plus in addition the vendor pays a 15% fee to the auction house if i am right??
So, is it right that buyers at auction are paying an extra 44% on top of the hammer price? 22.5% Commision 4% Artist resale rights 17.5% VAT Surely the only people making a profit are the auctioneers!! not quite, you pay the commision and sometimes the artist rights depending on the artist (interesting to see the banksy's had artist re-sale rights but not the bleks, what about art for the masses?) you only pay 17.5% VAT on the fees, not the cost of the item you bid on, so it would be more like 28-30%. Plus in addition the vendor pays a 15% fee to the auction house if i am right?? |
|
saltandiron
New Member
๐จ๏ธ 794
๐๐ป 3
July 2006
|
Bloomsbury Auctions ๐ฌ๐ง, by saltandiron on Nov 28, 2007 20:54:03 GMT 1, nice one rydal, i reckon there would be plenty of interest in your offer, maybe it could be put in as a sticky thread somewhere on the forum as a reference section for anyone to use
seconded, would definitely be of use.
nice one rydal, i reckon there would be plenty of interest in your offer, maybe it could be put in as a sticky thread somewhere on the forum as a reference section for anyone to use seconded, would definitely be of use. |
|
afroken
Junior Member
๐จ๏ธ 1,018
๐๐ป 29
February 2009
|
Bloomsbury Auctions ๐ฌ๐ง, by afroken on Nov 28, 2007 21:05:52 GMT 1, With VAT, re-sale rights and buyers premium you need to add about 30.5% to the hammer prices all in all. So pretty much everything sold for what you'd expect or more.
It's pretty stupid that eBay doesn't show the full price as a lot of people use it to measure the market. Do these show up on Expresso Beans?
With VAT, re-sale rights and buyers premium you need to add about 30.5% to the hammer prices all in all. So pretty much everything sold for what you'd expect or more.
It's pretty stupid that eBay doesn't show the full price as a lot of people use it to measure the market. Do these show up on Expresso Beans?
|
|
|
|
Bloomsbury Auctions ๐ฌ๐ง, by ejvaze on Nov 28, 2007 21:31:57 GMT 1, Vazie's Ian Hamilton-Finlay exceeded estimate it would appear. Well done
Thanks pez
Yes I am very pleased with the sale price for the Ian Hamilton Finlay portfolio.
I had only expected it to have gone for the reserve price which was well under the top estimate of ยฃ900 so was well chuffed when it went for ยฃ1200 which was well over the estimate price.
I couldn't stand the thought of watching the Banksys go so with the news of my little windfall went shopping as all women do ;D
You'll be pleased to hear I didn't spend much, it was more window shopping. ;D
Anything to keep my mind off what the Banksys might sell for in the afternoon.
The money from the Ian Hamilton Finlay is being added to my 'Serious Banksy' fund  ;D
I do think auction was the best way to sell this portfolio rather than ebay as I am sure not many would know much about this artist. It looks as though I did the right thing. ;D
Vazie's Ian Hamilton-Finlay exceeded estimate it would appear. Well done Thanks pez Yes I am very pleased with the sale price for the Ian Hamilton Finlay portfolio. I had only expected it to have gone for the reserve price which was well under the top estimate of ยฃ900 so was well chuffed when it went for ยฃ1200 which was well over the estimate price. I couldn't stand the thought of watching the Banksys go so with the news of my little windfall went shopping as all women do ;D You'll be pleased to hear I didn't spend much, it was more window shopping. ;D Anything to keep my mind off what the Banksys might sell for in the afternoon. The money from the Ian Hamilton Finlay is being added to my 'Serious Banksy' fund ;D I do think auction was the best way to sell this portfolio rather than ebay as I am sure not many would know much about this artist. It looks as though I did the right thing. ;D |
|
|
|
Bloomsbury Auctions ๐ฌ๐ง, by alsbabar on Nov 28, 2007 21:52:11 GMT 1, Rydal, i would be interested to hear your view on how the Distant Selling Act applies to todays auction, in particular how this impacts Bloomsburys' conditions, in particular to those who bid/won online.
Rydal, i would be interested to hear your view on how the Distant Selling Act applies to todays auction, in particular how this impacts Bloomsburys' conditions, in particular to those who bid/won online.
|
|
|
|
Bloomsbury Auctions ๐ฌ๐ง, by manchestermike on Nov 28, 2007 22:00:03 GMT 1, Rydal, i would be interested to hear your view on how the Distant Selling Act applies to todays auction, in particular how this impacts Bloomsburys' conditions, in particular to those who bid/won online.
Good point... I think with auctions like this you lose your rights to return etc under the DSA. If you've won it's yours
Rydal, i would be interested to hear your view on how the Distant Selling Act applies to todays auction, in particular how this impacts Bloomsburys' conditions, in particular to those who bid/won online. Good point... I think with auctions like this you lose your rights to return etc under the DSA. If you've won it's yours |
|
rydal
New Member
๐จ๏ธ 109
๐๐ป 3
October 2006
|
Bloomsbury Auctions ๐ฌ๐ง, by rydal on Nov 28, 2007 23:13:24 GMT 1, Manchestermike is correct, the Distance Selling Regs do not apply to contracts concluded at auction - that is a genuine auction however, not e-bay which as explained previously is not legally regarded as an auction.
Manchestermike is correct, the Distance Selling Regs do not apply to contracts concluded at auction - that is a genuine auction however, not e-bay which as explained previously is not legally regarded as an auction.
|
|
Dead Elvis
New Member
๐จ๏ธ 308
๐๐ป 1
August 2007
|
Bloomsbury Auctions ๐ฌ๐ง, by Dead Elvis on Nov 29, 2007 1:10:55 GMT 1, So I was high bidder on Napalm, along with someone else, but the item says unsold. Both bids clearly set at low-end estimate.
So I was high bidder on Napalm, along with someone else, but the item says unsold. Both bids clearly set at low-end estimate.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Bloomsbury Auctions ๐ฌ๐ง, by darjeeling on Nov 29, 2007 2:56:27 GMT 1, Prices imo will be low due to closeness to xmas - nightmare time to sell i agree. i remember this time last year was exactly the same scenario. prices started falling through december and january. then lo and behold when february came along with the start of the new auction season prices took off again. worries over the state of the econonmy and over-supply of prints may be part of the problem but i believe that its largely due to a seasonal dip.
But this seasonal dip has been going on for a long time. When prices got weak in the summer the excuse was everyone was supposed to be on vacation?!? Then as prices continued to drag even when the fall auction season resumed there were some other excuses and now there is the holiday excuse. I don't think prices are going to collapse. But I certainly don't see any reason to return to the price frenzy of spring 2007. I think prices aren't going to be going anywhere for awhile now. A lot of people bought Banksy prints in the spring and summer and 'd reckon most of those people are flat or at a loss. That's really going to make them think twice about buying anything else on the secondary market. And I'm sure there's still going to be a fair amount of new releases in 2008 to continue to fill the market.
Prices imo will be low due to closeness to xmas - nightmare time to sell i agree. i remember this time last year was exactly the same scenario. prices started falling through december and january. then lo and behold when february came along with the start of the new auction season prices took off again. worries over the state of the econonmy and over-supply of prints may be part of the problem but i believe that its largely due to a seasonal dip. But this seasonal dip has been going on for a long time. When prices got weak in the summer the excuse was everyone was supposed to be on vacation?!? Then as prices continued to drag even when the fall auction season resumed there were some other excuses and now there is the holiday excuse. I don't think prices are going to collapse. But I certainly don't see any reason to return to the price frenzy of spring 2007. I think prices aren't going to be going anywhere for awhile now. A lot of people bought Banksy prints in the spring and summer and 'd reckon most of those people are flat or at a loss. That's really going to make them think twice about buying anything else on the secondary market. And I'm sure there's still going to be a fair amount of new releases in 2008 to continue to fill the market. |
|
jam
Junior Member
๐จ๏ธ 1,629
๐๐ป 31
November 2006
|
Bloomsbury Auctions ๐ฌ๐ง, by jam on Nov 29, 2007 3:07:20 GMT 1, Is anyone on the board close to someone at the Bloomsbury auction house? I would like to know actual percentages of sold prints VS reserve not met. I bid on a few prints that were 'cheap' and didn't end up getting them as the reserve wasn't met, and I know of a few people that had things listed in the sale that failed to meet reserve... I am betting there were many prints that didn't change hands. It would be nice to clear the actual sales percentage up seeing so many are referencing the prices from the auction to site a downturn in the market or that they are reflective of actual values. 
Is anyone on the board close to someone at the Bloomsbury auction house? I would like to know actual percentages of sold prints VS reserve not met. I bid on a few prints that were 'cheap' and didn't end up getting them as the reserve wasn't met, and I know of a few people that had things listed in the sale that failed to meet reserve... I am betting there were many prints that didn't change hands. It would be nice to clear the actual sales percentage up seeing so many are referencing the prices from the auction to site a downturn in the market or that they are reflective of actual values. |
|
|
|
Bloomsbury Auctions ๐ฌ๐ง, by Jonny Breaks on Nov 29, 2007 12:04:16 GMT 1, the way i read it it was 22% and then VAT on the whole lot...about 43% on the hammer price?
the way i read it it was 22% and then VAT on the whole lot...about 43% on the hammer price?
|
|
|
|
Bloomsbury Auctions ๐ฌ๐ง, by finsburyparkranger on Nov 29, 2007 15:25:40 GMT 1, Is anyone on the board close to someone at the Bloomsbury auction house? I would like to know actual percentages of sold prints VS reserve not met. I bid on a few prints that were 'cheap' and didn't end up getting them as the reserve wasn't met, and I know of a few people that had things listed in the sale that failed to meet reserve... I am betting there were many prints that didn't change hands. It would be nice to clear the actual sales percentage up seeing so many are referencing the prices from the auction to site a downturn in the market or that they are reflective of actual values.
Ok I was at the auction yesterday at I've got to say the auctioneer looked fairly depressed at times. The majority of art failed to be sold at all. I think 90% if the mica's didn't sell. For a long time the continual patter of the auctioneer saying 'no sale' was almost hypnotizing. It looks like the art market is going the way of the property market and a stand off between buyers and sellers is commencing. The sellers are refusing to accept the current market price for their prints and the buyers are refusing to buy at the rate the sellers are asking.
In regards to selling my golf sale, how do i feel? Well gutted in lots of respects. On the other hand I feel grateful to MR B helping paying off my overdraft. I think I've learned one lesson through the whole experience and thats to never assume you've made a penny until you cash in your chips and leave the casino. I've refereed to the art market before as a casino and i still think of it like that now. Whether its the free drinks, sexy sales girls or the ยฃ1000 art bets that are made every thursday night, it is essentially a gambling game in my mind, albeit one of the most cultured and interesting.
I think there is a danger however that people sometimes fail to see the art game for what it is. Sometimes we lose sight that the moment you decide you want a limited edition print you are buying into a new currency. Personally I'm loosing confidence with some of the people that regulate that currency. After micallef 'flooded the market' with 1000's signed GIWTBB's and hundreds of jumping cows and lucky Mc has brought out 100's of new colourways of her old prints on her web site, I have lost faith that artists within the LAZ circle are not going to do the same. Even if you get a watertight guarantee that something is a genuine 'limited edition' you cant guarantee that the artist wont flood the market. With the recent example's cited above i think this inflation is going to continue especially with the LAZ/POW artists.
Notice the POW web site. When it only says 'edition' not 'limited edition' you can expect that the colourways will forever be printed. Lucy represent one of the first artist to exploit that in her contract, watch and see the other follow suit.
Regarding flooding the market concept, there is one man I know that would love to use that as his defining stunt. It is the artistic sequel to selling 'morons' in an auction or getting thousands of fans to queue for hours for 'festival' after all. Maybe the sale will never end......
.... or maybe this is the talk of a man thats sold his banksy and wants another one on the cheap.
Is anyone on the board close to someone at the Bloomsbury auction house? I would like to know actual percentages of sold prints VS reserve not met. I bid on a few prints that were 'cheap' and didn't end up getting them as the reserve wasn't met, and I know of a few people that had things listed in the sale that failed to meet reserve... I am betting there were many prints that didn't change hands. It would be nice to clear the actual sales percentage up seeing so many are referencing the prices from the auction to site a downturn in the market or that they are reflective of actual values. Ok I was at the auction yesterday at I've got to say the auctioneer looked fairly depressed at times. The majority of art failed to be sold at all. I think 90% if the mica's didn't sell. For a long time the continual patter of the auctioneer saying 'no sale' was almost hypnotizing. It looks like the art market is going the way of the property market and a stand off between buyers and sellers is commencing. The sellers are refusing to accept the current market price for their prints and the buyers are refusing to buy at the rate the sellers are asking. In regards to selling my golf sale, how do i feel? Well gutted in lots of respects. On the other hand I feel grateful to MR B helping paying off my overdraft. I think I've learned one lesson through the whole experience and thats to never assume you've made a penny until you cash in your chips and leave the casino. I've refereed to the art market before as a casino and i still think of it like that now. Whether its the free drinks, sexy sales girls or the ยฃ1000 art bets that are made every thursday night, it is essentially a gambling game in my mind, albeit one of the most cultured and interesting. I think there is a danger however that people sometimes fail to see the art game for what it is. Sometimes we lose sight that the moment you decide you want a limited edition print you are buying into a new currency. Personally I'm loosing confidence with some of the people that regulate that currency. After micallef 'flooded the market' with 1000's signed GIWTBB's and hundreds of jumping cows and lucky Mc has brought out 100's of new colourways of her old prints on her web site, I have lost faith that artists within the LAZ circle are not going to do the same. Even if you get a watertight guarantee that something is a genuine 'limited edition' you cant guarantee that the artist wont flood the market. With the recent example's cited above i think this inflation is going to continue especially with the LAZ/POW artists. Notice the POW web site. When it only says 'edition' not 'limited edition' you can expect that the colourways will forever be printed. Lucy represent one of the first artist to exploit that in her contract, watch and see the other follow suit. Regarding flooding the market concept, there is one man I know that would love to use that as his defining stunt. It is the artistic sequel to selling 'morons' in an auction or getting thousands of fans to queue for hours for 'festival' after all. Maybe the sale will never end...... .... or maybe this is the talk of a man thats sold his banksy and wants another one on the cheap. |
|
|
|
Bloomsbury Auctions ๐ฌ๐ง, by a4mnt on Nov 29, 2007 15:38:23 GMT 1, I think the Casino hypothesis is a good one. You are buying into a gamble with every sale. Maybe not so much with the slot machines, but certainly at the roulette table.
We're seeing that now.
It's all down to who can afford to hold their nerve.
I think the Casino hypothesis is a good one. You are buying into a gamble with every sale. Maybe not so much with the slot machines, but certainly at the roulette table.
We're seeing that now.
It's all down to who can afford to hold their nerve.
|
|
|
|
Bloomsbury Auctions ๐ฌ๐ง, by numusic on Nov 29, 2007 15:49:02 GMT 1, I think the Casino hypothesis is a good one. You are buying into a gamble with every sale. Maybe not so much with the slot machines, but certainly at the roulette table. We're seeing that now. It's all down to who can afford to hold their nerve.
where's the gamble ? I don't get the analogy
I think the Casino hypothesis is a good one. You are buying into a gamble with every sale. Maybe not so much with the slot machines, but certainly at the roulette table. We're seeing that now. It's all down to who can afford to hold their nerve. where's the gamble ? I don't get the analogy |
|
saltandiron
New Member
๐จ๏ธ 794
๐๐ป 3
July 2006
|
Bloomsbury Auctions ๐ฌ๐ง, by saltandiron on Nov 29, 2007 15:52:16 GMT 1, I think the Casino hypothesis is a good one. You are buying into a gamble with every sale. Maybe not so much with the slot machines, but certainly at the roulette table. We're seeing that now. It's all down to who can afford to hold their nerve. where's the gamble ? I don't get the analogy
ditto,
the only gamble I take when I buy a print is 'will I like it as much in the flesh as I do on the screen'
I think the Casino hypothesis is a good one. You are buying into a gamble with every sale. Maybe not so much with the slot machines, but certainly at the roulette table. We're seeing that now. It's all down to who can afford to hold their nerve. where's the gamble ? I don't get the analogy ditto, the only gamble I take when I buy a print is 'will I like it as much in the flesh as I do on the screen' |
|
|
|
Bloomsbury Auctions ๐ฌ๐ง, by carlito on Nov 29, 2007 15:56:12 GMT 1, for those of us not super rich, its nice for a print to at least hold its value if you need to sell it, so intrinsically you take a gamble on a print...
yes in la de dah land where I don't need to sell anything ever it would be super nice just go on 'buy because you like' but unfortunately in reality check land I'm honest enough to say it doesn't always work like that
for those of us not super rich, its nice for a print to at least hold its value if you need to sell it, so intrinsically you take a gamble on a print...
yes in la de dah land where I don't need to sell anything ever it would be super nice just go on 'buy because you like' but unfortunately in reality check land I'm honest enough to say it doesn't always work like that
|
|
;D 
