saint
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Banksy Happy Chopper Print, by saint on Nov 16, 2013 13:53:59 GMT 1, PS i only ask that as for the life of me I can think of no negatives to applying for a COA, other than the price of 50 quid (plus VAT), however i would think the positives outweigh this and so am struggling to understand why you have such a problem with the idea? Saint, my point seems to have been missed. It is not about £50, it is about the legitimacy of the art which seems to revolve around the COA, not print and it's provenance. This seems wrong to me but I accept that it is the way that these prints are traded, wrong but reality.
I've not been saying that because your print doesn't have the COA its not legit, no one has, i've been saying that if you had the COA your sales audience would widen. I've heard alot of people say 'i wont buy a banksy print without a COA these days', but not once have i heard someone say 'I'm not buying that banksy print as it has a COA'.
The COA is not the reason the print is legitimate, but it is a security blanket for people who are unsure in this game and don't have a firm footing on legitimate works by Banksy.
This is all IMO by the way, works sell for thousands of pounds without PC COA's (Vermin stuff etc), so what do i know.
As i've said, good luck with the sale, its a cracking print.
PS i only ask that as for the life of me I can think of no negatives to applying for a COA, other than the price of 50 quid (plus VAT), however i would think the positives outweigh this and so am struggling to understand why you have such a problem with the idea? Saint, my point seems to have been missed. It is not about £50, it is about the legitimacy of the art which seems to revolve around the COA, not print and it's provenance. This seems wrong to me but I accept that it is the way that these prints are traded, wrong but reality. I understand what you're saying, but i think you've missed the point also. I've not been saying that because your print doesn't have the COA its not legit, no one has, i've been saying that if you had the COA your sales audience would widen. I've heard alot of people say 'i wont buy a banksy print without a COA these days', but not once have i heard someone say 'I'm not buying that banksy print as it has a COA'. The COA is not the reason the print is legitimate, but it is a security blanket for people who are unsure in this game and don't have a firm footing on legitimate works by Banksy. This is all IMO by the way, works sell for thousands of pounds without PC COA's (Vermin stuff etc), so what do i know. As i've said, good luck with the sale, its a cracking print. |
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2badmice
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Banksy Happy Chopper Print, by 2badmice on Nov 16, 2013 14:07:29 GMT 1, One reason for creating this thread (it wasn't all about the sale, or the ridiculous £15k) was generated after I had read the Invader thread about the legitimacy of the art once the packaging was opened.
I was interested in the weird dichotomy that art: which was the object i.e. the tiles, has move from being an image based art work (the tiles), to a conceptual artwork: the packaging. So now Invader is a conceptual artist not an image based artist.
So the 'market' has changed the basis on which the artist actually created the artwork in the first place.
It is like the original conceptual piece: Duchamp's urinal. The original urinal was destroyed after the first show and it was left that way until Duchamp became the famous conceptual artist we now all accept. So when he had an exhibition later, the original urinals were no longer in production and one could not be found, so he had a ceramic artist create a copy. The original "anti-art" statement of the urinal was lost and changed by the art market. Interesting….and a similar thing has happened to the Invader work.
Art is what the "market" creates not what the artist creates.
So to relate this to this print debate, again it is the "market" changing the legitimacy of the art work itself. And I have a problem with that.
One reason for creating this thread (it wasn't all about the sale, or the ridiculous £15k) was generated after I had read the Invader thread about the legitimacy of the art once the packaging was opened.
I was interested in the weird dichotomy that art: which was the object i.e. the tiles, has move from being an image based art work (the tiles), to a conceptual artwork: the packaging. So now Invader is a conceptual artist not an image based artist.
So the 'market' has changed the basis on which the artist actually created the artwork in the first place.
It is like the original conceptual piece: Duchamp's urinal. The original urinal was destroyed after the first show and it was left that way until Duchamp became the famous conceptual artist we now all accept. So when he had an exhibition later, the original urinals were no longer in production and one could not be found, so he had a ceramic artist create a copy. The original "anti-art" statement of the urinal was lost and changed by the art market. Interesting….and a similar thing has happened to the Invader work.
Art is what the "market" creates not what the artist creates.
So to relate this to this print debate, again it is the "market" changing the legitimacy of the art work itself. And I have a problem with that.
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2badmice
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Banksy Happy Chopper Print, by 2badmice on Nov 16, 2013 14:19:23 GMT 1, Saint, my point seems to have been missed. It is not about £50, it is about the legitimacy of the art which seems to revolve around the COA, not print and it's provenance. This seems wrong to me but I accept that it is the way that these prints are traded, wrong but reality. I understand what you're saying, but i think you've missed the point also. I've not been saying that because your print doesn't have the COA its not legit, no one has, i've been saying that if you had the COA your sales audience would widen. I've heard alot of people say 'i wont buy a banksy print without a COA these days', but not once have i heard someone say 'I'm not buying that banksy print as it has a COA'. The COA is not the reason the print is legitimate, but it is a security blanket for people who are unsure in this game and don't have a firm footing on legitimate works by Banksy. This is all IMO by the way, works sell for thousands of pounds without PC COA's (Vermin stuff etc), so what do i know. As i've said, good luck with the sale, its a cracking print.
Anyway, this print is part of that edition, it is known by POW and they know it is mine, so I couldn't understand this overriding need for one single piece of paper stating that was so important. I know now that is the case.
The sale is over by the way……my point was made but not accepted, I will live with that.
Saint, my point seems to have been missed. It is not about £50, it is about the legitimacy of the art which seems to revolve around the COA, not print and it's provenance. This seems wrong to me but I accept that it is the way that these prints are traded, wrong but reality. I understand what you're saying, but i think you've missed the point also. I've not been saying that because your print doesn't have the COA its not legit, no one has, i've been saying that if you had the COA your sales audience would widen. I've heard alot of people say 'i wont buy a banksy print without a COA these days', but not once have i heard someone say 'I'm not buying that banksy print as it has a COA'. The COA is not the reason the print is legitimate, but it is a security blanket for people who are unsure in this game and don't have a firm footing on legitimate works by Banksy. This is all IMO by the way, works sell for thousands of pounds without PC COA's (Vermin stuff etc), so what do i know. As i've said, good luck with the sale, its a cracking print. No, I did understand that, I was making a point in relation to provenance v COA's. I take the point that someone new Banksy may require the legitimacy of the COA but they should understand that the COA only relates to the edition and not all the work that may be outside of that edition. Anyway, this print is part of that edition, it is known by POW and they know it is mine, so I couldn't understand this overriding need for one single piece of paper stating that was so important. I know now that is the case. The sale is over by the way……my point was made but not accepted, I will live with that. |
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2badmice
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Banksy Happy Chopper Print, by 2badmice on Nov 16, 2013 14:30:37 GMT 1, Saint, my point seems to have been missed. It is not about £50, it is about the legitimacy of the art which seems to revolve around the COA, not print and it's provenance. This seems wrong to me but I accept that it is the way that these prints are traded, wrong but reality. If this was a grand you would be right bad mice but as you want 10-15k you have to do what the market dictates.
Saint, my point seems to have been missed. It is not about £50, it is about the legitimacy of the art which seems to revolve around the COA, not print and it's provenance. This seems wrong to me but I accept that it is the way that these prints are traded, wrong but reality. If this was a grand you would be right bad mice but as you want 10-15k you have to do what the market dictates. Correct and understood, see my statement about market forces and how it changes the reality of the art work which I am uncomfortable with but as I said - I accept. |
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Deleted
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January 1970
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Banksy Happy Chopper Print, by Deleted on Nov 16, 2013 14:32:08 GMT 1, ?, so did i win it for my 500 then?.
GLWTS anyhow, i like the image.
?, so did i win it for my 500 then?.
GLWTS anyhow, i like the image.
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2badmice
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Banksy Happy Chopper Print, by 2badmice on Nov 16, 2013 14:43:48 GMT 1, No sorry…..but you had the highest actual bid. However, I would be uncomfortable to let you have that without a COA!
No sorry…..but you had the highest actual bid. However, I would be uncomfortable to let you have that without a COA!
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Deleted
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January 1970
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Banksy Happy Chopper Print, by Deleted on Nov 16, 2013 14:56:22 GMT 1, No sorry…..but you had the highest actual bid. However, I would be uncomfortable to let you have that without a COA!
No sorry…..but you had the highest actual bid. However, I would be uncomfortable to let you have that without a COA! I'll risk it fella, Laz's faceprint or whatever is good enough for me. |
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Deleted
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January 1970
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Banksy Happy Chopper Print, by Deleted on Nov 16, 2013 15:08:56 GMT 1, Does Steve Lazarides have any criminal convictions? Is it possible to get his thumb print checked on the police national data base just to ensure that it is actually his?
Does Steve Lazarides have any criminal convictions? Is it possible to get his thumb print checked on the police national data base just to ensure that it is actually his? ...also you could take some DNA off the fingerprint and simply clone a new one just incase the original Lazarides breaks or summat. |
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Dr Plip
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Banksy Happy Chopper Print, by Dr Plip on Nov 16, 2013 15:16:59 GMT 1, Does Steve Lazarides have any criminal convictions? Is it possible to get his thumb print checked on the police national data base just to ensure that it is actually his? ...also you could take some DNA off the fingerprint and simply clone a new one just incase the original Lazarides breaks or summat.
In the future, we won't need Pest Control.......
nypost.com/2013/11/08/pollocks-final-work-authenticated-as-mistress-claimed/
Anyone know if Banksy has a dog or a Polar Bear rug?
Does Steve Lazarides have any criminal convictions? Is it possible to get his thumb print checked on the police national data base just to ensure that it is actually his? ...also you could take some DNA off the fingerprint and simply clone a new one just incase the original Lazarides breaks or summat. In the future, we won't need Pest Control....... nypost.com/2013/11/08/pollocks-final-work-authenticated-as-mistress-claimed/ Anyone know if Banksy has a dog or a Polar Bear rug? |
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Banksy Happy Chopper Print, by andyroo0312 on Nov 16, 2013 15:19:38 GMT 1, ONO….please, all I ever see here is moaning about not putting a price down. ONO that can be £2k who knows? To be fair, to Badmice, asking and selling prices are 2 different thing Carrie. I'll start it off with a 500 quid bid.  ps. re the COA discussion etc. a Lazarides signed letter would be good enough proof for me.
ONO….please, all I ever see here is moaning about not putting a price down. ONO that can be £2k who knows? To be fair, to Badmice, asking and selling prices are 2 different thing Carrie. I'll start it off with a 500 quid bid. ps. re the COA discussion etc. a Lazarides signed letter would be good enough proof for me. But without PC you could not get this insured for replacement value with any major insurance company and given the cost of these bits of paper you would be mad not to insure them for theft or fire/water etc |
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treweman
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Banksy Happy Chopper Print, by treweman on Nov 16, 2013 16:33:20 GMT 1, To be fair, to Badmice, asking and selling prices are 2 different thing Carrie. I'll start it off with a 500 quid bid. ps. re the COA discussion etc. a Lazarides signed letter would be good enough proof for me. But without PC you could not get this insured for replacement value with any major insurance company and given the cost of these bits of paper you would be mad not to insure them for theft or fire/water etc
To be fair, to Badmice, asking and selling prices are 2 different thing Carrie. I'll start it off with a 500 quid bid. ps. re the COA discussion etc. a Lazarides signed letter would be good enough proof for me. But without PC you could not get this insured for replacement value with any major insurance company and given the cost of these bits of paper you would be mad not to insure them for theft or fire/water etc No offense, but on the U.S. side of the pond, this is a rather silly statement. I have a homeowners policy with a large, well known company, and went to see my agent to discuss my art collection (as well as an expensive grand piano, several antiques, a collection of signed, first edition books, etc.). My agent was very clear that my policy covered the contents of the house up to $350K, and that my only responsibility was to keep a list of the items I owned in case I ever had to file a claim. And if it ever came to pass that I needed to file a claim, replacement cost was important, not whether I had a piano tuner regularly work on the piano to keep it in top condition, or whether I could prove that my art was the real deal. A 15K Banksy isn't even close to the most valuable piece I own, and with much of my original art, all provenance would be lost with the pieces themselves in the event of a fire. |
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2badmice
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Banksy Happy Chopper Print, by 2badmice on Nov 16, 2013 16:44:17 GMT 1, Hmm…also who here has their collections separately insured? Mine would be covered by my overall house insurance, you only have to have to state the maximum sum required for any one item within that policy and you should do that when getting insured.
Here in the UK I don't think we overall maximum value for contents but a maximum for any one item.
Hmm…also who here has their collections separately insured? Mine would be covered by my overall house insurance, you only have to have to state the maximum sum required for any one item within that policy and you should do that when getting insured.
Here in the UK I don't think we overall maximum value for contents but a maximum for any one item.
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thisisanton
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Banksy Happy Chopper Print, by thisisanton on Nov 16, 2013 19:44:50 GMT 1, Hmm…also who here has their collections separately insured? Mine would be covered by my overall house insurance, you only have to have to state the maximum sum required for any one item within that policy and you should do that when getting insured. Here in the UK I don't think we overall maximum value for contents but a maximum for any one item.
A few months ago I was quoted 12.5K with COA and framed. And that was form a gallery. For 15K you must also be a gallery. If not you should start one. So 9K sounds about the right price for a private sale...Including a COA.
Hmm…also who here has their collections separately insured? Mine would be covered by my overall house insurance, you only have to have to state the maximum sum required for any one item within that policy and you should do that when getting insured. Here in the UK I don't think we overall maximum value for contents but a maximum for any one item. A few months ago I was quoted 12.5K with COA and framed. And that was form a gallery. For 15K you must also be a gallery. If not you should start one. So 9K sounds about the right price for a private sale...Including a COA. |
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Banksy Happy Chopper Print, by Black Apple Art on Nov 16, 2013 20:14:07 GMT 1, But without PC you could not get this insured for replacement value with any major insurance company and given the cost of these bits of paper you would be mad not to insure them for theft or fire/water etc No offense, but on the U.S. side of the pond, this is a rather silly statement. I have a homeowners policy with a large, well known company, and went to see my agent to discuss my art collection (as well as an expensive grand piano, several antiques, a collection of signed, first edition books, etc.). My agent was very clear that my policy covered the contents of the house up to $350K, and that my only responsibility was to keep a list of the items I owned in case I ever had to file a claim. And if it ever came to pass that I needed to file a claim, replacement cost was important, not whether I had a piano tuner regularly work on the piano to keep it in top condition, or whether I could prove that my art was the real deal. A 15K Banksy isn't even close to the most valuable piece I own, and with much of my original art, all provenance would be lost with the pieces themselves in the event of a fire.
But without PC you could not get this insured for replacement value with any major insurance company and given the cost of these bits of paper you would be mad not to insure them for theft or fire/water etc No offense, but on the U.S. side of the pond, this is a rather silly statement. I have a homeowners policy with a large, well known company, and went to see my agent to discuss my art collection (as well as an expensive grand piano, several antiques, a collection of signed, first edition books, etc.). My agent was very clear that my policy covered the contents of the house up to $350K, and that my only responsibility was to keep a list of the items I owned in case I ever had to file a claim. And if it ever came to pass that I needed to file a claim, replacement cost was important, not whether I had a piano tuner regularly work on the piano to keep it in top condition, or whether I could prove that my art was the real deal. A 15K Banksy isn't even close to the most valuable piece I own, and with much of my original art, all provenance would be lost with the pieces themselves in the event of a fire. Most Ins companies require all COAs, lists and provenance (or at least photos of them) be stored "off site" for this exact reason. |
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2badmice
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Banksy Happy Chopper Print, by 2badmice on Nov 16, 2013 20:15:41 GMT 1, thisisanton…...I would agree with your conclusion.
However, a little story: in September 2011, I consigned a signed CND to Bonhams with the usual kind of reserve at £3-4k if I remember, which seemed ok to me as Lazarides had one for sale at £6.5k. If you now look at that sale results you will see that the CND made £13.5k over twice the gallery price, so the market is a strange animal and mean averages sometimes do not reflect reality.
But to re-iterate, I would agree with your logic.
thisisanton…...I would agree with your conclusion.
However, a little story: in September 2011, I consigned a signed CND to Bonhams with the usual kind of reserve at £3-4k if I remember, which seemed ok to me as Lazarides had one for sale at £6.5k. If you now look at that sale results you will see that the CND made £13.5k over twice the gallery price, so the market is a strange animal and mean averages sometimes do not reflect reality.
But to re-iterate, I would agree with your logic.
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Deleted
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January 1970
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Banksy Happy Chopper Print, by Deleted on Nov 16, 2013 20:21:02 GMT 1, so does that mean in theory that my bid of 500 quid pounds has now secured this print for me?, or not?.
so does that mean in theory that my bid of 500 quid pounds has now secured this print for me?, or not?.
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2badmice
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Banksy Happy Chopper Print, by 2badmice on Nov 16, 2013 20:32:42 GMT 1, In theory yes but in reality, no but many thanks for your offers which have been very entertaining and tenacious, appreciated.
In theory yes but in reality, no but many thanks for your offers which have been very entertaining and tenacious, appreciated.
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Snakes
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Banksy Happy Chopper Print, by Snakes on Nov 17, 2013 0:25:24 GMT 1, Is wiz the old boy who used to go by the forum name of wizbong?
Is wiz the old boy who used to go by the forum name of wizbong?
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Quinnster
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Banksy Happy Chopper Print, by Quinnster on Nov 17, 2013 11:04:50 GMT 1, Is wiz the old boy who used to go by the forum name of wizbong?
Yes
Is wiz the old boy who used to go by the forum name of wizbong? Yes |
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Banksy Happy Chopper Print, by howlinjack on Nov 17, 2013 12:44:21 GMT 1, .
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2badmice
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Banksy Happy Chopper Print, by 2badmice on Nov 17, 2013 12:51:51 GMT 1, Oh I will probably go with POW on this, I have had dealings with Dora over the years and she has always been cool. Pest control I believe do have a bad rep but then imagine how much sh1t they have to put up with, so I feel their pain.
Oh I will probably go with POW on this, I have had dealings with Dora over the years and she has always been cool. Pest control I believe do have a bad rep but then imagine how much sh1t they have to put up with, so I feel their pain.
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Banksy Happy Chopper Print, by howlinjack on Nov 17, 2013 13:17:00 GMT 1, dora is lovely and always a pleasure to deal with....she may only point you in the direction of PC these days though. worth a try. its all the same place anyhows......
dora is lovely and always a pleasure to deal with....she may only point you in the direction of PC these days though. worth a try. its all the same place anyhows......
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2badmice
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Banksy Happy Chopper Print, by 2badmice on Nov 17, 2013 13:27:31 GMT 1, Thanks for the heads up on that….
Thanks for the heads up on that….
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saint
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Banksy Happy Chopper Print, by saint on Nov 17, 2013 16:29:56 GMT 1, Not sure how often Dora is there these days, think she's concentrating more on her own work or she was when we last spoke.
She's a lovely girl, always good for a chat.
Not sure how often Dora is there these days, think she's concentrating more on her own work or she was when we last spoke.
She's a lovely girl, always good for a chat.
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2badmice
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Banksy Happy Chopper Print, by 2badmice on Nov 17, 2013 21:15:39 GMT 1, Saint, thanks for that I didn't know she had moved on….and I wish her luck with her work, it is fun on the whole.
Saint, thanks for that I didn't know she had moved on….and I wish her luck with her work, it is fun on the whole.
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Paname
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Banksy Happy Chopper Print, by Paname on Dec 15, 2013 17:35:45 GMT 1, What is the current price for unsigned Happy Chopper (ed 750)?
What is the current price for unsigned Happy Chopper (ed 750)?
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jonti
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December 2011
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Banksy Happy Chopper Print, by jonti on Dec 15, 2013 18:28:58 GMT 1, I picked one up last week for £17,500
I picked one up last week for £17,500
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craigf
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Banksy Happy Chopper Print, by craigf on Dec 15, 2013 22:39:35 GMT 1, I'd sell mine for what Jonti paid, assuming he hasn't added a 0 
I'd sell mine for what Jonti paid, assuming he hasn't added a 0 |
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jonti
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Banksy Happy Chopper Print, by jonti on Dec 15, 2013 23:03:06 GMT 1, Ha! Sorry that's what an afternoons boozing will do!
Ha! Sorry that's what an afternoons boozing will do!
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Paname
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Banksy Happy Chopper Print, by Paname on Dec 16, 2013 18:02:39 GMT 1, A guy offered me a good pricefor this print, do you think it's original?
![]()
photo edit
ok thx
A guy offered me a good pricefor this print, do you think it's original? ![]() photo edit ok thx |
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