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Banksy Happy Chopper Print, by andypandy007 on Nov 15, 2013 19:13:31 GMT 1, I'm sure laz released edition of 50, Happy Chopper back in the days.
I'm sure laz released edition of 50, Happy Chopper back in the days.
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dsd
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Banksy Happy Chopper Print, by dsd on Nov 15, 2013 19:32:37 GMT 1, Very nice to see a price , , rather than the blind auction that is the norm on here.It should be made a rule to have a price .glwts
Very nice to see a price , , rather than the blind auction that is the norm on here.It should be made a rule to have a price .glwts
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2badmice
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Banksy Happy Chopper Print, by 2badmice on Nov 15, 2013 19:35:22 GMT 1, Well after all this nonsense and as I am talking at the moment to Dora about another print and I am going to POW's offices in the next week or so, so I will get the COA for this. They will probably have a good laugh over this. So advice from the honourable board members, should i pull this sale until i have this legendary piece of paper or leave it so that others can air their views on the legitimacy or not of Mr Lazarides? I understand where I think you're coming from, and I can feel your grief; but even more clearly I do know where the respondents are coming from in their concerns for your sale. If you water down the cynicism I think you'll find valuable advice as far as aiding in getting a high-value print sold successfully with minimal (going forward) headache involved. **As usual I'll append my standard "I am in no way an expert nor is a $15K Banksy anywhere at all near the realm of ever being remotely feasible" nota bene.I am not really looking for £15k
I take your advice: so it looks like COA's are the most important documents out there, it just astonishes me, so I am leaning toward closing this and then when I have the golden ticket re-issue the sale at £15050.00 ono and I will pay the travelling expenses to POW.
Well after all this nonsense and as I am talking at the moment to Dora about another print and I am going to POW's offices in the next week or so, so I will get the COA for this. They will probably have a good laugh over this. So advice from the honourable board members, should i pull this sale until i have this legendary piece of paper or leave it so that others can air their views on the legitimacy or not of Mr Lazarides? I understand where I think you're coming from, and I can feel your grief; but even more clearly I do know where the respondents are coming from in their concerns for your sale. If you water down the cynicism I think you'll find valuable advice as far as aiding in getting a high-value print sold successfully with minimal (going forward) headache involved. **As usual I'll append my standard "I am in no way an expert nor is a $15K Banksy anywhere at all near the realm of ever being remotely feasible" nota bene.I am not really looking for £15k I am not really looking for £15k that is a crazy price but what else do you do? Asking for offers is essentially an open auction with no defined time in which to bid so is an ONO but unless you have a defined price then there is no choice but to put in a crazy figure and let the market decide. I take your advice: so it looks like COA's are the most important documents out there, it just astonishes me, so I am leaning toward closing this and then when I have the golden ticket re-issue the sale at £15050.00 ono and I will pay the travelling expenses to POW. |
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2badmice
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Banksy Happy Chopper Print, by 2badmice on Nov 15, 2013 19:36:27 GMT 1, I'm sure laz released edition of 50, Happy Chopper back in the days.
I'm sure laz released edition of 50, Happy Chopper back in the days. That is correct but still as part of the overall issue not on top of. |
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kbfrombk
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Banksy Happy Chopper Print, by kbfrombk on Nov 15, 2013 19:39:23 GMT 1, I understand where I think you're coming from, and I can feel your grief; but even more clearly I do know where the respondents are coming from in their concerns for your sale. If you water down the cynicism I think you'll find valuable advice as far as aiding in getting a high-value print sold successfully with minimal (going forward) headache involved. **As usual I'll append my standard "I am in no way an expert nor is a $15K Banksy anywhere at all near the realm of ever being remotely feasible" nota bene.I am not really looking for £15k I am not really looking for £15k that is a crazy price but what else do you do? Asking for offers is essentially an open auction with no defined time in which to bid so is an ONO but unless you have a defined price then there is no choice but to put in a crazy figure and let the market decide. I take your advice: so it looks like COA's are the most important documents out there, it just astonishes me, so I am leaning toward closing this and then when I have the golden ticket re-issue the sale at £15050.00 ono and I will pay the travelling expenses to POW.
Exactly the simple point being attempted; only £50 to ensure a smooth as possible sale.
After that it's up to the buyer to step up and show their cards.
It may sound silly to you but the input you've received is coming direct from your demographic, or at least a hypothetical sample thereof; so why not take that minor measure to satisfy the reasonable concerns?
Groovy.
I understand where I think you're coming from, and I can feel your grief; but even more clearly I do know where the respondents are coming from in their concerns for your sale. If you water down the cynicism I think you'll find valuable advice as far as aiding in getting a high-value print sold successfully with minimal (going forward) headache involved. **As usual I'll append my standard "I am in no way an expert nor is a $15K Banksy anywhere at all near the realm of ever being remotely feasible" nota bene.I am not really looking for £15k I am not really looking for £15k that is a crazy price but what else do you do? Asking for offers is essentially an open auction with no defined time in which to bid so is an ONO but unless you have a defined price then there is no choice but to put in a crazy figure and let the market decide. I take your advice: so it looks like COA's are the most important documents out there, it just astonishes me, so I am leaning toward closing this and then when I have the golden ticket re-issue the sale at £15050.00 ono and I will pay the travelling expenses to POW. As above, it's good to at least have a price posted, unlike the usual. Exactly the simple point being attempted; only £50 to ensure a smooth as possible sale. After that it's up to the buyer to step up and show their cards. It may sound silly to you but the input you've received is coming direct from your demographic, or at least a hypothetical sample thereof; so why not take that minor measure to satisfy the reasonable concerns? Groovy. |
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2badmice
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Banksy Happy Chopper Print, by 2badmice on Nov 15, 2013 19:43:35 GMT 1, At 15k no one in their right mind would touch it without a COA from PC. That includes you by the way as you had to check with them it was real and yet you bought it and had the Laz letter. Your email response from PC unless it states the specific print and number means bugger all. "But there was a time circa 2007, when there was some concern about backdoor HC's going around (some people here may remember) I contacted POW to confirm the number I had was OK they asked me where I had got the print and their response was….." My opinion and is just my opinion is that people should regard anything without a COA as dodgy. No reflection implied on you or the piece but people should take serious care of their hard earned cash. High price does not imply authenticity. I agree with your Laz letter etc but that was replaced by PC so PC over rides that eg if they then say it's not the buyer is buggered. You say 15k or nearest offer then take 14950 and spend 50 on the COA. Your choice but this whole thread implies that not too is a waste of time.
But I take your point, I have made mine over and again to no avail so I will get the magic ticket….and declare here that this sale IS NOW CLOSED.
At 15k no one in their right mind would touch it without a COA from PC. That includes you by the way as you had to check with them it was real and yet you bought it and had the Laz letter. Your email response from PC unless it states the specific print and number means bugger all. "But there was a time circa 2007, when there was some concern about backdoor HC's going around (some people here may remember) I contacted POW to confirm the number I had was OK they asked me where I had got the print and their response was….." My opinion and is just my opinion is that people should regard anything without a COA as dodgy. No reflection implied on you or the piece but people should take serious care of their hard earned cash. High price does not imply authenticity. I agree with your Laz letter etc but that was replaced by PC so PC over rides that eg if they then say it's not the buyer is buggered. You say 15k or nearest offer then take 14950 and spend 50 on the COA. Your choice but this whole thread implies that not too is a waste of time. "Your email response from PC unless it states the specific print and number means bugger all." Of course it does, I am not using that as any part of it's authenticity but only to show that POW are aware of this print an fit's number and that it belongs to me, that is easy enough to check. After all, if you apply for COA you don't have to get the certificate you have only registered it with POW and that was done by me in 2007. But I take your point, I have made mine over and again to no avail so I will get the magic ticket….and declare here that this sale IS NOW CLOSED. |
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2badmice
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Banksy Happy Chopper Print, by 2badmice on Nov 15, 2013 19:47:17 GMT 1, I am not really looking for £15k that is a crazy price but what else do you do? Asking for offers is essentially an open auction with no defined time in which to bid so is an ONO but unless you have a defined price then there is no choice but to put in a crazy figure and let the market decide. I take your advice: so it looks like COA's are the most important documents out there, it just astonishes me, so I am leaning toward closing this and then when I have the golden ticket re-issue the sale at £15050.00 ono and I will pay the travelling expenses to POW. As above, it's good to at least have a price posted, unlike the usual. Exactly the simple point being attempted; only £50 to ensure a smooth as possible sale. After that it's up to the buyer to step up and show their cards. It may sound silly to you but the input you've received is coming direct from your demographic, or at least a hypothetical sample thereof; so why not take that minor measure to satisfy the reasonable concerns? Groovy.
So to re-iterate THE SALE IS NOW CLOSED. Lets move on.
Now what to do with those bloody INVADERS I have opened…
I am not really looking for £15k that is a crazy price but what else do you do? Asking for offers is essentially an open auction with no defined time in which to bid so is an ONO but unless you have a defined price then there is no choice but to put in a crazy figure and let the market decide. I take your advice: so it looks like COA's are the most important documents out there, it just astonishes me, so I am leaning toward closing this and then when I have the golden ticket re-issue the sale at £15050.00 ono and I will pay the travelling expenses to POW. As above, it's good to at least have a price posted, unlike the usual. Exactly the simple point being attempted; only £50 to ensure a smooth as possible sale. After that it's up to the buyer to step up and show their cards. It may sound silly to you but the input you've received is coming direct from your demographic, or at least a hypothetical sample thereof; so why not take that minor measure to satisfy the reasonable concerns? Groovy. DONE…..many thanks to you all for an excellent discussion on the nature of COA's v Real Provenance. So to re-iterate THE SALE IS NOW CLOSED. Lets move on. Now what to do with those bloody INVADERS I have opened… |
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Quinnster
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Banksy Happy Chopper Print, by Quinnster on Nov 15, 2013 19:56:07 GMT 1, As above, it's good to at least have a price posted, unlike the usual. Exactly the simple point being attempted; only £50 to ensure a smooth as possible sale. After that it's up to the buyer to step up and show their cards. It may sound silly to you but the input you've received is coming direct from your demographic, or at least a hypothetical sample thereof; so why not take that minor measure to satisfy the reasonable concerns? Groovy. DONE…..many thanks to you all for an excellent discussion on the nature of COA's v Real Provenance. So to re-iterate THE SALE IS NOW CLOSED. Lets move on. Now what to do with those bloody INVADERS I have opened…
You might want to make it £15066 as is £50 plus VAT and postage :-)
As above, it's good to at least have a price posted, unlike the usual. Exactly the simple point being attempted; only £50 to ensure a smooth as possible sale. After that it's up to the buyer to step up and show their cards. It may sound silly to you but the input you've received is coming direct from your demographic, or at least a hypothetical sample thereof; so why not take that minor measure to satisfy the reasonable concerns? Groovy. DONE…..many thanks to you all for an excellent discussion on the nature of COA's v Real Provenance. So to re-iterate THE SALE IS NOW CLOSED. Lets move on. Now what to do with those bloody INVADERS I have opened… You might want to make it £15066 as is £50 plus VAT and postage :-) |
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2badmice
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Banksy Happy Chopper Print, by 2badmice on Nov 15, 2013 20:06:53 GMT 1,
"You might want to make it £15066 as is £50 plus VAT and postage :-)"
I think people may think I am taking the piss……..
"You might want to make it £15066 as is £50 plus VAT and postage :-)"
I think people may think I am taking the piss……..
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Snakes
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Banksy Happy Chopper Print, by Snakes on Nov 15, 2013 20:42:16 GMT 1, Does Steve Lazarides have any criminal convictions? Is it possible to get his thumb print checked on the police national data base just to ensure that it is actually his?
Does Steve Lazarides have any criminal convictions? Is it possible to get his thumb print checked on the police national data base just to ensure that it is actually his?
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johnnyh
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Banksy Happy Chopper Print, by johnnyh on Nov 15, 2013 20:46:03 GMT 1, At 15k no one in their right mind would touch it without a COA from PC. That includes you by the way as you had to check with them it was real and yet you bought it and had the Laz letter. Your email response from PC unless it states the specific print and number means bugger all. "But there was a time circa 2007, when there was some concern about backdoor HC's going around (some people here may remember) I contacted POW to confirm the number I had was OK they asked me where I had got the print and their response was….." My opinion and is just my opinion is that people should regard anything without a COA as dodgy. No reflection implied on you or the piece but people should take serious care of their hard earned cash. High price does not imply authenticity. I agree with your Laz letter etc but that was replaced by PC so PC over rides that eg if they then say it's not the buyer is buggered. You say 15k or nearest offer then take 14950 and spend 50 on the COA. Your choice but this whole thread implies that not too is a waste of time. "Your email response from PC unless it states the specific print and number means bugger all." Of course it does, I am not using that as any part of it's authenticity but only to show that POW are aware of this print an fit's number and that it belongs to me, that is easy enough to check. After all, if you apply for COA you don't have to get the certificate you have only registered it with POW and that was done by me in 2007. But I take your point, I have made mine over and again to no avail so I will get the magic ticket….and declare here that this sale IS NOW CLOSED.
At 15k no one in their right mind would touch it without a COA from PC. That includes you by the way as you had to check with them it was real and yet you bought it and had the Laz letter. Your email response from PC unless it states the specific print and number means bugger all. "But there was a time circa 2007, when there was some concern about backdoor HC's going around (some people here may remember) I contacted POW to confirm the number I had was OK they asked me where I had got the print and their response was….." My opinion and is just my opinion is that people should regard anything without a COA as dodgy. No reflection implied on you or the piece but people should take serious care of their hard earned cash. High price does not imply authenticity. I agree with your Laz letter etc but that was replaced by PC so PC over rides that eg if they then say it's not the buyer is buggered. You say 15k or nearest offer then take 14950 and spend 50 on the COA. Your choice but this whole thread implies that not too is a waste of time. "Your email response from PC unless it states the specific print and number means bugger all." Of course it does, I am not using that as any part of it's authenticity but only to show that POW are aware of this print an fit's number and that it belongs to me, that is easy enough to check. After all, if you apply for COA you don't have to get the certificate you have only registered it with POW and that was done by me in 2007. But I take your point, I have made mine over and again to no avail so I will get the magic ticket….and declare here that this sale IS NOW CLOSED. Think your right fella as say not questioning you or the authenticity of your print but a buyer would have to be mad to take it without it. It is a beauty good luck with its future sale. No offense in my post implied or meant to you. |
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solar77
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Banksy Happy Chopper Print, by solar77 on Nov 15, 2013 22:31:28 GMT 1, OMG TEH CoAzzz
OMG TEH CoAzzz
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Banksy Happy Chopper Print, by andyroo0312 on Nov 16, 2013 0:37:37 GMT 1, Pest Control issue the COA's. They have the final word on authentication, as I'm sure you know. I'd be a little worried about spending £15k on a print that doesn't have the stamp or the COA. Pest Control was not in existence at the time I obtained the letter of provenance. This letter is form Lazerides himself sand is signed by him….really what more do you want, a COA from an organisation created to issue COA's for items that don't have LoP's? Come on…...
Pest Control issue the COA's. They have the final word on authentication, as I'm sure you know. I'd be a little worried about spending £15k on a print that doesn't have the stamp or the COA. Pest Control was not in existence at the time I obtained the letter of provenance. This letter is form Lazerides himself sand is signed by him….really what more do you want, a COA from an organisation created to issue COA's for items that don't have LoP's? Come on…... If i bought this print and had no PC my insurance company would not insure it for replacement value without authentication and as far as the insurance company is concerned that can only come from PC as it is the only authorised authenticator of Banksy prints.. Tust saying.. |
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kbfrombk
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Banksy Happy Chopper Print, by kbfrombk on Nov 16, 2013 0:40:10 GMT 1, Pest Control was not in existence at the time I obtained the letter of provenance. This letter is form Lazerides himself sand is signed by him….really what more do you want, a COA from an organisation created to issue COA's for items that don't have LoP's? Come on…... If i bought this print and had no PC my insurance company would not insure it for replacement value without authentication and as far as the insurance company is concerned that can only come from PC as it is the only authorised authenticator of Banksy prints.. Tust saying..
Pest Control was not in existence at the time I obtained the letter of provenance. This letter is form Lazerides himself sand is signed by him….really what more do you want, a COA from an organisation created to issue COA's for items that don't have LoP's? Come on…... If i bought this print and had no PC my insurance company would not insure it for replacement value without authentication and as far as the insurance company is concerned that can only come from PC as it is the only authorised authenticator of Banksy prints.. Tust saying.. That is a solid important point -- glad that OP seems to have seen the light on this and is addressing it. Now I guess that means we have a few weeks to pool together and start the Banksy Forum HC Share. |
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Carrie
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Banksy Happy Chopper Print, by Carrie on Nov 16, 2013 1:57:07 GMT 1, Whoever authenticates the print at the time of its release is the official "authenticator". I believe Picasso had a number of different organizations that authenticated his work throughout his career, and if an old work had a coa from an old organization a new one wasn't needed - that was the coa!
Whoever authenticates the print at the time of its release is the official "authenticator". I believe Picasso had a number of different organizations that authenticated his work throughout his career, and if an old work had a coa from an old organization a new one wasn't needed - that was the coa!
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Deleted
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Banksy Happy Chopper Print, by Deleted on Nov 16, 2013 2:02:08 GMT 1, Whoever authenticates the print at the time of its release is the official "authenticator". I believe Picasso had a number of different organizations that authenticated his work throughout his career, and if an old work had a coa from an old organization a new one wasn't needed - that was the coa!
When Picasso was selling/releasing prints, there was really no such thing as a COA, you would have a gallery receipt from purchase.
But authentication of prints in the wider art world revolves around the catalogue raisonne of a particular artist.
Whoever authenticates the print at the time of its release is the official "authenticator". I believe Picasso had a number of different organizations that authenticated his work throughout his career, and if an old work had a coa from an old organization a new one wasn't needed - that was the coa! When Picasso was selling/releasing prints, there was really no such thing as a COA, you would have a gallery receipt from purchase. But authentication of prints in the wider art world revolves around the catalogue raisonne of a particular artist. |
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2badmice
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Banksy Happy Chopper Print, by 2badmice on Nov 16, 2013 3:36:06 GMT 1, Thanks to you all and I think this has been a good discussion for one thing and another. If this paper is the be all and end all of the reality, then it must be put in place, so as I have said before and as Banksy has so succinctly stated before 'SALE ENDS'. Await the same in future but with COA, curtain closed. It has been fun but all fun must come to an end!! Good night and a good night I have had at the Crazy Bear, Fitzrovia with friends and we all had a jolly good time discussing the whys and wherefores of this particular thread. It has been fun!!
Thanks to you all and I think this has been a good discussion for one thing and another. If this paper is the be all and end all of the reality, then it must be put in place, so as I have said before and as Banksy has so succinctly stated before 'SALE ENDS'. Await the same in future but with COA, curtain closed. It has been fun but all fun must come to an end!! Good night and a good night I have had at the Crazy Bear, Fitzrovia with friends and we all had a jolly good time discussing the whys and wherefores of this particular thread. It has been fun!!
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Banksy Happy Chopper Print, by Black Apple Art on Nov 16, 2013 9:50:46 GMT 1, Interesting subject as I have a singed, mint framed & unfolded, Happy Choppers print from the 03 issue of sleazenation accompanied with a letter from the former co-owner of sleazenation which owned Swinstead Publishing and later POW. Letter states that banksy singed this in front of him at his desk in 03. While PC admitted the signature was authentic, they refused to issue a COA on the grounds that they did not release the print as it was an insert in the magazine. I think in some circumstances, other forms of Provenance are acceptable. Especially when PC/POW is not an option for technical reasons and not because they disputed the authenticity.
Interesting subject as I have a singed, mint framed & unfolded, Happy Choppers print from the 03 issue of sleazenation accompanied with a letter from the former co-owner of sleazenation which owned Swinstead Publishing and later POW. Letter states that banksy singed this in front of him at his desk in 03. While PC admitted the signature was authentic, they refused to issue a COA on the grounds that they did not release the print as it was an insert in the magazine. I think in some circumstances, other forms of Provenance are acceptable. Especially when PC/POW is not an option for technical reasons and not because they disputed the authenticity.
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saint
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Banksy Happy Chopper Print, by saint on Nov 16, 2013 10:42:16 GMT 1, I don't think Sleazenation owned Swinstead publishing, Swinstead publishing published Sleazenation as far as i'm aware? Steve Lazarides worked for PYMCA which was part of Sleazenation.
I lived in the flat next door to Jon Swinstead from 2000 to about 2003 in shoreditch, good guy, crazy parties.
I don't think Sleazenation owned Swinstead publishing, Swinstead publishing published Sleazenation as far as i'm aware? Steve Lazarides worked for PYMCA which was part of Sleazenation.
I lived in the flat next door to Jon Swinstead from 2000 to about 2003 in shoreditch, good guy, crazy parties.
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saint
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Banksy Happy Chopper Print, by saint on Nov 16, 2013 10:44:22 GMT 1, They also published Jockey Slut as far as i can remember.
I once turned up to a flat party of his and it was sponsored by bacardi, was a good night.
They also published Jockey Slut as far as i can remember.
I once turned up to a flat party of his and it was sponsored by bacardi, was a good night.
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2badmice
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Banksy Happy Chopper Print, by 2badmice on Nov 16, 2013 12:37:37 GMT 1, Interesting subject as I have a singed, mint framed & unfolded, Happy Choppers print from the 03 issue of sleazenation accompanied with a letter from the former co-owner of sleazenation which owned Swinstead Publishing and later POW. Letter states that banksy singed this in front of him at his desk in 03. While PC admitted the signature was authentic, they refused to issue a COA on the grounds that they did not release the print as it was an insert in the magazine. I think in some circumstances, other forms of Provenance are acceptable. Especially when PC/POW is not an option for technical reasons and not because they disputed the authenticity.
I would be perfectly happy to have a backdoor print now with no collecting investment value, it is as genuine as the edition prints but has no legitimacy within that edition and therefore no investment value, but wasn't the whole thing based on the image at one time not the money?
Now would anyone buy this HC from sleaze nation, even though it a genuine print after this debate…..no?
Interesting subject as I have a singed, mint framed & unfolded, Happy Choppers print from the 03 issue of sleazenation accompanied with a letter from the former co-owner of sleazenation which owned Swinstead Publishing and later POW. Letter states that banksy singed this in front of him at his desk in 03. While PC admitted the signature was authentic, they refused to issue a COA on the grounds that they did not release the print as it was an insert in the magazine. I think in some circumstances, other forms of Provenance are acceptable. Especially when PC/POW is not an option for technical reasons and not because they disputed the authenticity. In a way that was my point: there are Banksy prints out there that ARE genuine works but have no legitimacy in the "Art" world because a body (POW/PC) refuses to issue a piece of paper stating it is genuine because their only function is in stating that the print is one of an edition. Does a print work have to be part of an edition to be genuine? No, I don't think so. I would be perfectly happy to have a backdoor print now with no collecting investment value, it is as genuine as the edition prints but has no legitimacy within that edition and therefore no investment value, but wasn't the whole thing based on the image at one time not the money? Now would anyone buy this HC from sleaze nation, even though it a genuine print after this debate…..no? |
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Deleted
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Banksy Happy Chopper Print, by Deleted on Nov 16, 2013 12:44:29 GMT 1, I would say £15k is more AP ball park area surely? ONO….please, all I ever see here is moaning about not putting a price down. ONO that can be £2k who knows?
I'll start it off with a 500 quid bid.
ps. re the COA discussion etc. a Lazarides signed letter would be good enough proof for me.
I would say £15k is more AP ball park area surely? ONO….please, all I ever see here is moaning about not putting a price down. ONO that can be £2k who knows? To be fair, to Badmice, asking and selling prices are 2 different thing Carrie. I'll start it off with a 500 quid bid. ps. re the COA discussion etc. a Lazarides signed letter would be good enough proof for me. |
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Quinnster
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January 2006
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Banksy Happy Chopper Print, by Quinnster on Nov 16, 2013 12:44:51 GMT 1, Interesting subject as I have a singed, mint framed & unfolded, Happy Choppers print from the 03 issue of sleazenation accompanied with a letter from the former co-owner of sleazenation which owned Swinstead Publishing and later POW. Letter states that banksy singed this in front of him at his desk in 03. While PC admitted the signature was authentic, they refused to issue a COA on the grounds that they did not release the print as it was an insert in the magazine. I think in some circumstances, other forms of Provenance are acceptable. Especially when PC/POW is not an option for technical reasons and not because they disputed the authenticity. In a way that was my point: there are Banksy prints out there that ARE genuine works but have no legitimacy in the "Art" world because a body (POW/PC) refuses to issue a piece of paper stating it is genuine because their only function is in stating that the print is one of an edition. Does a print work have to be part of an edition to be genuine? No, I don't think so. I would be perfectly happy to have a backdoor print now with no collecting investment value, it is as genuine as the edition prints but has no legitimacy within that edition and therefore no investment value, but wasn't the whole thing based on the image at one time not the money? Now would anyone buy this HC from sleaze nation, even though it a genuine print after this debate…..no?
It's not a print but a free poster that was inside the magazine ( I have one ) and it has a value depending on what someone will pay for it.
Interesting subject as I have a singed, mint framed & unfolded, Happy Choppers print from the 03 issue of sleazenation accompanied with a letter from the former co-owner of sleazenation which owned Swinstead Publishing and later POW. Letter states that banksy singed this in front of him at his desk in 03. While PC admitted the signature was authentic, they refused to issue a COA on the grounds that they did not release the print as it was an insert in the magazine. I think in some circumstances, other forms of Provenance are acceptable. Especially when PC/POW is not an option for technical reasons and not because they disputed the authenticity. In a way that was my point: there are Banksy prints out there that ARE genuine works but have no legitimacy in the "Art" world because a body (POW/PC) refuses to issue a piece of paper stating it is genuine because their only function is in stating that the print is one of an edition. Does a print work have to be part of an edition to be genuine? No, I don't think so. I would be perfectly happy to have a backdoor print now with no collecting investment value, it is as genuine as the edition prints but has no legitimacy within that edition and therefore no investment value, but wasn't the whole thing based on the image at one time not the money? Now would anyone buy this HC from sleaze nation, even though it a genuine print after this debate…..no? [ It's not a print but a free poster that was inside the magazine ( I have one ) and it has a value depending on what someone will pay for it. |
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January 1970
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Banksy Happy Chopper Print, by Deleted on Nov 16, 2013 12:47:14 GMT 1, ^^^ me too! (Thanks to Q), i would never sell it though so its priceless to me.
^^^ me too! (Thanks to Q), i would never sell it though so its priceless to me.
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January 1970
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Banksy Happy Chopper Print, by Deleted on Nov 16, 2013 12:57:39 GMT 1, ONO….please, all I ever see here is moaning about not putting a price down. ONO that can be £2k who knows? To be fair, to Badmice, asking and selling prices are 2 different thing Carrie. I'll start it off with a 500 quid bid. ps. re the COA discussion etc. a Lazarides signed letter would be good enough proof for me.
I see your offer and raise it to £625
ONO….please, all I ever see here is moaning about not putting a price down. ONO that can be £2k who knows? To be fair, to Badmice, asking and selling prices are 2 different thing Carrie. I'll start it off with a 500 quid bid. ps. re the COA discussion etc. a Lazarides signed letter would be good enough proof for me. I see your offer and raise it to £625 |
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saint
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September 2010
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Banksy Happy Chopper Print, by saint on Nov 16, 2013 12:59:18 GMT 1, Different question.
2badmice, if someone bought your print and applied for the COA, would POW issue it?
Or is this, like for example a gift print, a print that is known to be legit but won't be granted a COA as it was never intended for sale??
Different question.
2badmice, if someone bought your print and applied for the COA, would POW issue it?
Or is this, like for example a gift print, a print that is known to be legit but won't be granted a COA as it was never intended for sale??
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saint
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September 2010
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Banksy Happy Chopper Print, by saint on Nov 16, 2013 13:02:29 GMT 1, PS i only ask that as for the life of me I can think of no negatives to applying for a COA, other than the price of 50 quid (plus VAT), however i would think the positives outweigh this and so am struggling to understand why you have such a problem with the idea?
PS i only ask that as for the life of me I can think of no negatives to applying for a COA, other than the price of 50 quid (plus VAT), however i would think the positives outweigh this and so am struggling to understand why you have such a problem with the idea?
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2badmice
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May 2006
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Banksy Happy Chopper Print, by 2badmice on Nov 16, 2013 13:36:05 GMT 1, Different question. 2badmice, if someone bought your print and applied for the COA, would POW issue it? Or is this, like for example a gift print, a print that is known to be legit but won't be granted a COA as it was never intended for sale??
It is not a gift print issued as 'not for sale' as it was sold to me by Steve Lazarides with a letter of provenance.
Different question. 2badmice, if someone bought your print and applied for the COA, would POW issue it? Or is this, like for example a gift print, a print that is known to be legit but won't be granted a COA as it was never intended for sale?? I have no reason to believe that they wouldn't, as I had discussions with POW in 2007 regarding the numbering, as at that time there was some issue with back door prints and numbering. I have an email trail regarding this and the final answer from that email trail was that the print was legitimate. Therefore POW know that I have this number and this print from our discussions in 2007 which was before there was any thought of actually issuing COA's. It is not a gift print issued as 'not for sale' as it was sold to me by Steve Lazarides with a letter of provenance. |
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2badmice
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May 2006
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Banksy Happy Chopper Print, by 2badmice on Nov 16, 2013 13:43:25 GMT 1, PS i only ask that as for the life of me I can think of no negatives to applying for a COA, other than the price of 50 quid (plus VAT), however i would think the positives outweigh this and so am struggling to understand why you have such a problem with the idea?
PS i only ask that as for the life of me I can think of no negatives to applying for a COA, other than the price of 50 quid (plus VAT), however i would think the positives outweigh this and so am struggling to understand why you have such a problem with the idea? Saint, my point seems to have been missed. It is not about £50, it is about the legitimacy of the art which seems to revolve around the COA, not print and it's provenance. This seems wrong to me but I accept that it is the way that these prints are traded, wrong but reality. |
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Quinnster
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January 2006
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Banksy Happy Chopper Print, by Quinnster on Nov 16, 2013 13:51:16 GMT 1, PS i only ask that as for the life of me I can think of no negatives to applying for a COA, other than the price of 50 quid (plus VAT), however i would think the positives outweigh this and so am struggling to understand why you have such a problem with the idea? Saint, my point seems to have been missed. It is not about £50, it is about the legitimacy of the art which seems to revolve around the COA, not print and it's provenance. This seems wrong to me but I accept that it is the way that these prints are traded, wrong but reality.
If this was a grand you would be right bad mice but as you want 10-15k you have to do what the market dictates.
PS i only ask that as for the life of me I can think of no negatives to applying for a COA, other than the price of 50 quid (plus VAT), however i would think the positives outweigh this and so am struggling to understand why you have such a problem with the idea? Saint, my point seems to have been missed. It is not about £50, it is about the legitimacy of the art which seems to revolve around the COA, not print and it's provenance. This seems wrong to me but I accept that it is the way that these prints are traded, wrong but reality. If this was a grand you would be right bad mice but as you want 10-15k you have to do what the market dictates. |
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