Zippy
Junior Member
Posts โข 6,765
Likes โข 2,598
April 2006
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'Life's too short' on ebay., by Zippy on Apr 20, 2008 22:41:42 GMT 1, Romany, i may have said before but I have had to look into this at work. Happy to talk to you about this at the next show / in private as its probbly best that not every lurker knows the legalities of it. Z
Romany, i may have said before but I have had to look into this at work. Happy to talk to you about this at the next show / in private as its probbly best that not every lurker knows the legalities of it. Z
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'Life's too short' on ebay., by sahoria on Apr 20, 2008 22:48:11 GMT 1, isnt there a way on flickr to say they are copyrighted... and as suggestion contact nick to contact the specific gallery... even though your pictures which are in public domain as they say it is still nicks art piece so in theory they would have to abide by what he says as he is the original copyright holder for that specific art piece...it is his trademark bowler hat aswell... s
isnt there a way on flickr to say they are copyrighted... and as suggestion contact nick to contact the specific gallery... even though your pictures which are in public domain as they say it is still nicks art piece so in theory they would have to abide by what he says as he is the original copyright holder for that specific art piece...it is his trademark bowler hat aswell... s
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'Life's too short' on ebay., by giiiant on Apr 20, 2008 22:55:04 GMT 1, Send out a few DMCA complaints, job done
Send out a few DMCA complaints, job done
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'Life's too short' on ebay., by alsbabar on Apr 20, 2008 23:07:18 GMT 1, FMA = fil thy motherf**king assholes
FMA = fil thy motherf**king assholes
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'Life's too short' on ebay., by Happy Shopper on Apr 21, 2008 0:20:15 GMT 1, Why don't BRP put in winning bids for all these, find the sellers names and email addresses, and then cancel their prints ? Easy, and it'll stop this kind of thing happening so often !!
Why don't BRP put in winning bids for all these, find the sellers names and email addresses, and then cancel their prints ? Easy, and it'll stop this kind of thing happening so often !!
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Prescription Art
Art Gallery
Junior Member
Posts โข 3,145
Likes โข 1,210
November 2007
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'Life's too short' on ebay., by Prescription Art on Apr 21, 2008 0:23:27 GMT 1, I don't agree with people flipping prints like this, but frankly if someone's gone to the effort of camping out in the cold for 36 hours, they can do what the fuck they like with it.
I don't agree with people flipping prints like this, but frankly if someone's gone to the effort of camping out in the cold for 36 hours, they can do what the fuck they like with it.
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aginghippie
New Member
Posts โข 211
Likes โข 0
December 2007
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'Life's too short' on ebay., by aginghippie on Apr 21, 2008 4:26:09 GMT 1, Just heard from filthymodernart who wrote "got the pictures from Flickr, they are in the public domain but if you'd like me to use your name I can" Public domain, he has got to be joking! That's utter bollocks. Copyright resides with you and must be *explicitly* assigned. Just because something is publicly available, as with Flickr, it does not make it public domain. Take down requests must always be honored although getting compensation is verging on the impossible unless they leave the material up.
In your case simply writing to ebay stating that; it is your image, is of the original work and not the print, and that the print is not yet available so no images of that exist. Say you want the your copyright material removed. In this case because the prints aren't out it is an open and shut case.
Just heard from filthymodernart who wrote "got the pictures from Flickr, they are in the public domain but if you'd like me to use your name I can" Public domain, he has got to be joking! That's utter bollocks. Copyright resides with you and must be *explicitly* assigned. Just because something is publicly available, as with Flickr, it does not make it public domain. Take down requests must always be honored although getting compensation is verging on the impossible unless they leave the material up. In your case simply writing to ebay stating that; it is your image, is of the original work and not the print, and that the print is not yet available so no images of that exist. Say you want the your copyright material removed. In this case because the prints aren't out it is an open and shut case.
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welshboy
New Member
Posts โข 322
Likes โข 1
January 2008
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'Life's too short' on ebay., by welshboy on Apr 21, 2008 8:50:53 GMT 1, If the picture they are using is the canvas and not the print, surely a lot of buyer`s are going to look at the the difference, and question it??
If the picture they are using is the canvas and not the print, surely a lot of buyer`s are going to look at the the difference, and question it??
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romanywg
Junior Member
Posts โข 4,093
Likes โข 36
October 2006
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'Life's too short' on ebay., by romanywg on Apr 21, 2008 10:22:43 GMT 1, Just heard back from ebay. "I have reviewed the information you sent us and can confirm that no action can be taken in this case.Please understand that we are unable to take any action if the images used are also placed on other websites for general public use.The images stored on these websites are termed as stock images and we don't have any control over the copy/theft of such images as they are freely viewable and downloadable from web. We can only take action on such images if they are reported from the website owners."
Just heard back from ebay. "I have reviewed the information you sent us and can confirm that no action can be taken in this case.Please understand that we are unable to take any action if the images used are also placed on other websites for general public use.The images stored on these websites are termed as stock images and we don't have any control over the copy/theft of such images as they are freely viewable and downloadable from web. We can only take action on such images if they are reported from the website owners."
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'Life's too short' on ebay., by manchestermike on Apr 21, 2008 10:25:56 GMT 1, Just heard back from ebay. "I have reviewed the information you sent us and can confirm that no action can be taken in this case.Please understand that we are unable to take any action if the images used are also placed on other websites for general public use.The images stored on these websites are termed as stock images and we don't have any control over the copy/theft of such images as they are freely viewable and downloadable from web. We can only take action on such images if they are reported from the website owners."
What bollocks! I think you should go straight to the sellers then...
What about the issue of them advertising the wrong product? i.e. the canvas...
Just heard back from ebay. "I have reviewed the information you sent us and can confirm that no action can be taken in this case.Please understand that we are unable to take any action if the images used are also placed on other websites for general public use.The images stored on these websites are termed as stock images and we don't have any control over the copy/theft of such images as they are freely viewable and downloadable from web. We can only take action on such images if they are reported from the website owners." What bollocks! I think you should go straight to the sellers then... What about the issue of them advertising the wrong product? i.e. the canvas...
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'Life's too short' on ebay., by stillborncrisps on Apr 21, 2008 10:41:36 GMT 1, I think anythinng uploaded to flickr does not make it free from copyright unless you specifically tag it as so - see this page www.flickr.com/account/prefs/license/ - you'll see the default is set to 'All rights reserved' meaning the photos cannot be downloaded and used willy-nilly.
Write back to eBay explaining this and demand they remove the photos or you'll serve a cease and desist order, or something like that.
I think anythinng uploaded to flickr does not make it free from copyright unless you specifically tag it as so - see this page www.flickr.com/account/prefs/license/ - you'll see the default is set to 'All rights reserved' meaning the photos cannot be downloaded and used willy-nilly. Write back to eBay explaining this and demand they remove the photos or you'll serve a cease and desist order, or something like that.
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'Life's too short' on ebay., by insite on Apr 21, 2008 10:41:42 GMT 1, JG, I've just checked on your flickr stream and the photos are quite clearly marked "all rights reserved". Maybe things have changed (I'm not keeping up with flickr or changes in legislation) but up until a few months ago this use of your photos would have been illegal. If you had marked them as Creative Commons then there may be an argument that they were in the public domain and could be used but you have asserted your rights as the owner of the image.
Did you say earlier in the thread that the photo that had been nicked was of the OG and not the print ? if so there's another approach to take as it would quite clearly be false advertising.
Although nice to know that if you nick something that's for "general public use" they'll flog it for you, bus stops ? road signs ? all those hanging baskets ?yeah bet they would bunch of responsibility shirking wankers.
JG, I've just checked on your flickr stream and the photos are quite clearly marked "all rights reserved". Maybe things have changed (I'm not keeping up with flickr or changes in legislation) but up until a few months ago this use of your photos would have been illegal. If you had marked them as Creative Commons then there may be an argument that they were in the public domain and could be used but you have asserted your rights as the owner of the image.
Did you say earlier in the thread that the photo that had been nicked was of the OG and not the print ? if so there's another approach to take as it would quite clearly be false advertising.
Although nice to know that if you nick something that's for "general public use" they'll flog it for you, bus stops ? road signs ? all those hanging baskets ?yeah bet they would bunch of responsibility shirking wankers.
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'Life's too short' on ebay., by alsbabar on Apr 21, 2008 10:48:30 GMT 1, what are the sellers going to do? They can argue that they took the image from another ebay listing - with that statement, case closed!!
what are the sellers going to do? They can argue that they took the image from another ebay listing - with that statement, case closed!!
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br1stol
New Member
Posts โข 307
Likes โข 4
October 2007
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'Life's too short' on ebay., by br1stol on Apr 21, 2008 10:50:00 GMT 1, Romany, i understand the frustraition!
Putting copyright issues to one side for a moment - they are complicated, lengthy and a pain in the arse (and probably very expensive) to actually inforce - i see uploading your photos to the net very much ike putting a piece of art out on the street. Once it is out there - you have to expect, and accept, that people will use it/bite it/ruin it/diss it. I have grown to basically just deal with the fact as you cant be precious about it once you have put it out there - 99% of the time it will eventually get ruined in one way or another. I have decided that if i feel precious about something i have made - be it a photo, a video, an artwork or a piece of writing - i keep it to myself, and only release it to others when necessary. Watermaking is also a good way of stamping ownwership. Just my view...
Romany, i understand the frustraition! Putting copyright issues to one side for a moment - they are complicated, lengthy and a pain in the arse (and probably very expensive) to actually inforce - i see uploading your photos to the net very much ike putting a piece of art out on the street. Once it is out there - you have to expect, and accept, that people will use it/bite it/ruin it/diss it. I have grown to basically just deal with the fact as you cant be precious about it once you have put it out there - 99% of the time it will eventually get ruined in one way or another. I have decided that if i feel precious about something i have made - be it a photo, a video, an artwork or a piece of writing - i keep it to myself, and only release it to others when necessary. Watermaking is also a good way of stamping ownwership. Just my view...
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'Life's too short' on ebay., by stillborncrisps on Apr 21, 2008 10:51:17 GMT 1, eBay have got it wrong as they're saying flickr is a photo stock site 'allowing free use' which it is not. Think you'll get further arguing this point than the false advertising, as you have vested interest in the rights to the photo.
eBay have got it wrong as they're saying flickr is a photo stock site 'allowing free use' which it is not. Think you'll get further arguing this point than the false advertising, as you have vested interest in the rights to the photo.
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'Life's too short' on ebay., by stillborncrisps on Apr 21, 2008 10:52:33 GMT 1, what are the sellers going to do? They can argue that they took the image from another ebay listing - with that statement, case closed!!
Think that action itself is actually against eBay's own rules.. or at least it used to be.
what are the sellers going to do? They can argue that they took the image from another ebay listing - with that statement, case closed!! Think that action itself is actually against eBay's own rules.. or at least it used to be.
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newmang
New Member
Posts โข 119
Likes โข 1
October 2007
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'Life's too short' on ebay., by newmang on Apr 21, 2008 10:54:32 GMT 1, Just heard from filthymodernart who wrote "got the pictures from Flickr, they are in the public domain but if you'd like me to use your name I can" Public domain, he has got to be joking!
Unbelieveable. Apart from being wrong as the default Flickr licence is 'All rights reserved' the lifes too short pic on FMA was stolen from ebay as it has the ebay camera watermark.
Just heard from filthymodernart who wrote "got the pictures from Flickr, they are in the public domain but if you'd like me to use your name I can" Public domain, he has got to be joking! Unbelieveable. Apart from being wrong as the default Flickr licence is 'All rights reserved' the lifes too short pic on FMA was stolen from ebay as it has the ebay camera watermark.
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'Life's too short' on ebay., by insite on Apr 21, 2008 10:58:55 GMT 1, eBay have got it wrong as they're saying flickr is a photo stock site 'allowing free use' which it is not. Think you'll get further arguing this point than the false advertising, as you have vested interest in the rights to the photo.
Haven't been keeping up with flickr recently but there was talk about making it a stock site at one point, I think when it was bought out by Yahoo.
I agree with what you're saying though, and JGs pics are clearly marked copyright all rights reserved so even if they've changed I don't see how you could justify the use.
eBay have got it wrong as they're saying flickr is a photo stock site 'allowing free use' which it is not. Think you'll get further arguing this point than the false advertising, as you have vested interest in the rights to the photo. Haven't been keeping up with flickr recently but there was talk about making it a stock site at one point, I think when it was bought out by Yahoo. I agree with what you're saying though, and JGs pics are clearly marked copyright all rights reserved so even if they've changed I don't see how you could justify the use.
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newmang
New Member
Posts โข 119
Likes โข 1
October 2007
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'Life's too short' on ebay., by newmang on Apr 21, 2008 10:59:15 GMT 1, what are the sellers going to do? They can argue that they took the image from another ebay listing - with that statement, case closed!! Think that action itself is actually against eBay's own rules.. or at least it used to be.
Yes it is. Quote from this ebay help page
pages.ebay.co.uk/help/policies/vero-image-text-theft.html
eBay members are not allowed to use another eBay user's pictures or descriptions in their listings or About Me pages without the owner's permission.
- Breaches of this policy may result in a range of actions, including:
- Listing cancellation
- Loss of eBay fees
- Limits placed on account privileges
- Loss of PowerSeller status
- Account suspension
what are the sellers going to do? They can argue that they took the image from another ebay listing - with that statement, case closed!! Think that action itself is actually against eBay's own rules.. or at least it used to be. Yes it is. Quote from this ebay help page pages.ebay.co.uk/help/policies/vero-image-text-theft.htmleBay members are not allowed to use another eBay user's pictures or descriptions in their listings or About Me pages without the owner's permission. - Breaches of this policy may result in a range of actions, including:
- Listing cancellation
- Loss of eBay fees
- Limits placed on account privileges
- Loss of PowerSeller status
- Account suspension
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br1stol
New Member
Posts โข 307
Likes โข 4
October 2007
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'Life's too short' on ebay., by br1stol on Apr 21, 2008 11:00:42 GMT 1, That might be true in a legal sense - but who is actually going to follow through a legal suit against someone who has copied and re-posted a photo, indirectly claiming it to be their own? Once you put it on the net, it will get copied and possibly passed off as someone elses....
That might be true in a legal sense - but who is actually going to follow through a legal suit against someone who has copied and re-posted a photo, indirectly claiming it to be their own? Once you put it on the net, it will get copied and possibly passed off as someone elses....
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'Life's too short' on ebay., by alsbabar on Apr 21, 2008 11:03:12 GMT 1, I think anythinng uploaded to flickr does not make it free from copyright unless you specifically tag it as so - see this page www.flickr.com/account/prefs/license/ - you'll see the default is set to 'All rights reserved' meaning the photos cannot be downloaded and used willy-nilly. Write back to eBay explaining this and demand they remove the photos or you'll serve a cease and desist order, or something like that.
you cannot claim copyright if no licensing rights were insitu prior to violation - its a bit like trying to close the stable door after the horse has bolted!!
Romanwyg, you will have to just accept that there isnt anything you can do, without having to take considerable time and expense in proving your case. Even then you will probably not get far, as the original images are not yours to own or publish. You may have technically been the person who took the photo, but the image is not yours to copyright. Watermark all your images, current and future, and take this one on the chin mate, and put this down to bitter experience.
I think anythinng uploaded to flickr does not make it free from copyright unless you specifically tag it as so - see this page www.flickr.com/account/prefs/license/ - you'll see the default is set to 'All rights reserved' meaning the photos cannot be downloaded and used willy-nilly. Write back to eBay explaining this and demand they remove the photos or you'll serve a cease and desist order, or something like that. you cannot claim copyright if no licensing rights were insitu prior to violation - its a bit like trying to close the stable door after the horse has bolted!! Romanwyg, you will have to just accept that there isnt anything you can do, without having to take considerable time and expense in proving your case. Even then you will probably not get far, as the original images are not yours to own or publish. You may have technically been the person who took the photo, but the image is not yours to copyright. Watermark all your images, current and future, and take this one on the chin mate, and put this down to bitter experience.
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'Life's too short' on ebay., by stillborncrisps on Apr 21, 2008 11:09:10 GMT 1, Liscencing rights were in situ though?? They were tagged as "All rights reserved" on flickr.
Agree it'll be an uphill struggle to resolve this, and probably more a lesson learnt in watermarking, which is a shame but the harsh truth these days.
Romany - try asking in the help msg board on flickr, as I'm sure yours isn't the first time this has happened. www.flickr.com/help/forum/en-us/
Liscencing rights were in situ though?? They were tagged as "All rights reserved" on flickr. Agree it'll be an uphill struggle to resolve this, and probably more a lesson learnt in watermarking, which is a shame but the harsh truth these days. Romany - try asking in the help msg board on flickr, as I'm sure yours isn't the first time this has happened. www.flickr.com/help/forum/en-us/
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'Life's too short' on ebay., by insite on Apr 21, 2008 11:16:02 GMT 1, I think anythinng uploaded to flickr does not make it free from copyright unless you specifically tag it as so - see this page www.flickr.com/account/prefs/license/ - you'll see the default is set to 'All rights reserved' meaning the photos cannot be downloaded and used willy-nilly. Write back to eBay explaining this and demand they remove the photos or you'll serve a cease and desist order, or something like that. you cannot claim copyright if no licensing rights were insitu prior to violation - its a bit like trying to close the stable door after the horse has bolted!! Romanwyg, you will have to just accept that there isnt anything you can do, without having to take considerable time and expense in proving your case. Even then you will probably not get far, as the original images are not yours to own or publish. You may have technically been the person who took the photo, but the image is not yours to copyright. Watermark all your images, current and future, and take this one on the chin mate, and put this down to bitter experience.
Jg's photos are quite clearly marked "copyright all rights reserved"
A photographer owns the images they capture and has the right to use them however they see fit. The only exception to this would be harassment, you would have to show the photo was taken with the sole intention of causing you distress or invasion of privacy like when celebs get papped but then stop the photos being used.
I think anythinng uploaded to flickr does not make it free from copyright unless you specifically tag it as so - see this page www.flickr.com/account/prefs/license/ - you'll see the default is set to 'All rights reserved' meaning the photos cannot be downloaded and used willy-nilly. Write back to eBay explaining this and demand they remove the photos or you'll serve a cease and desist order, or something like that. you cannot claim copyright if no licensing rights were insitu prior to violation - its a bit like trying to close the stable door after the horse has bolted!! Romanwyg, you will have to just accept that there isnt anything you can do, without having to take considerable time and expense in proving your case. Even then you will probably not get far, as the original images are not yours to own or publish. You may have technically been the person who took the photo, but the image is not yours to copyright. Watermark all your images, current and future, and take this one on the chin mate, and put this down to bitter experience. Jg's photos are quite clearly marked "copyright all rights reserved" A photographer owns the images they capture and has the right to use them however they see fit. The only exception to this would be harassment, you would have to show the photo was taken with the sole intention of causing you distress or invasion of privacy like when celebs get papped but then stop the photos being used.
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'Life's too short' on ebay., by alsbabar on Apr 21, 2008 11:18:52 GMT 1, Liscencing rights were in situ though?? They were tagged as "All rights reserved" on flickr. Agree it'll be an uphill struggle to resolve this, and probably more a lesson learnt in watermarking, which is a shame but the harsh truth these days. Romany - try asking in the help msg board on flickr, as I'm sure yours isn't the first time this has happened. www.flickr.com/help/forum/en-us/
Licensing rights are not insitu for Romanywg, because he doesnt own the copyrights nor has he claimed them You cannot have one without the other.
Interesting debate though and a good learning for us all.
As they say, you can protect your ass but not your assets!!
Liscencing rights were in situ though?? They were tagged as "All rights reserved" on flickr. Agree it'll be an uphill struggle to resolve this, and probably more a lesson learnt in watermarking, which is a shame but the harsh truth these days. Romany - try asking in the help msg board on flickr, as I'm sure yours isn't the first time this has happened. www.flickr.com/help/forum/en-us/Licensing rights are not insitu for Romanywg, because he doesnt own the copyrights nor has he claimed them You cannot have one without the other. Interesting debate though and a good learning for us all. As they say, you can protect your ass but not your assets!!
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'Life's too short' on ebay., by stillborncrisps on Apr 21, 2008 11:30:57 GMT 1, ICBW but I think the copyright of the photo and the copyright of the original work are two seperate things, alsabar.
Found this article in which a UK QC passes comment in light of a US art/photo copyright law getting passed in 1999, and how UK copyright law would still probably protect photographs of works of art: www.museumscopyright.org.uk/bridge.htm
ICBW but I think the copyright of the photo and the copyright of the original work are two seperate things, alsabar. Found this article in which a UK QC passes comment in light of a US art/photo copyright law getting passed in 1999, and how UK copyright law would still probably protect photographs of works of art: www.museumscopyright.org.uk/bridge.htm
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slacker
New Member
Posts โข 787
Likes โข 0
June 2007
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'Life's too short' on ebay., by slacker on Apr 21, 2008 12:48:48 GMT 1, what are the sellers going to do? They can argue that they took the image from another ebay listing - with that statement, case closed!!
nope - i had to sell some tickets once but didn't have them to hand so i grabbed a photo from a completed listing and used it. ebay removed the listing 5 days later because the original seller had reported that i had used his picture.
what are the sellers going to do? They can argue that they took the image from another ebay listing - with that statement, case closed!! nope - i had to sell some tickets once but didn't have them to hand so i grabbed a photo from a completed listing and used it. ebay removed the listing 5 days later because the original seller had reported that i had used his picture.
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aginghippie
New Member
Posts โข 211
Likes โข 0
December 2007
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'Life's too short' on ebay., by aginghippie on Apr 21, 2008 14:04:34 GMT 1, ICBW but I think the copyright of the photo and the copyright of the original work are two seperate things. This is correct. Also all work is copyrighted by default, didn't used to be the case but it is now, and it isn't necessary to mark it to retain copyright although people do. The US has fair use exemptions but this would not fall under that. I work for a mjor information provider and a lot of my time is spent on asset protection. There are some very strange ideas about the web and copyright out there.
ICBW but I think the copyright of the photo and the copyright of the original work are two seperate things. This is correct. Also all work is copyrighted by default, didn't used to be the case but it is now, and it isn't necessary to mark it to retain copyright although people do. The US has fair use exemptions but this would not fall under that. I work for a mjor information provider and a lot of my time is spent on asset protection. There are some very strange ideas about the web and copyright out there.
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