Phil Midds
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October 2006
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Insurance for sending prints sold on ebay/forum, by Phil Midds on Mar 12, 2008 11:50:15 GMT 1, Can anyone help???
I've recently sold a high value print and I had to look more closely into the conditions/exclusions etc of insuring art through a couple of carriers. From what I can make out, Parcelforce actually only cover the price you (the sender) paid for it - which in most cases will be a lot less than it's current value. Here's the exact wording:
"Collectables - items which have appreciated in value either due to their scarcity or due to their being out of production are not excluded from cover. However, any compensation payable for loss of, or damage to, any collectable shall be limited to the actual price paid for the collectable"
I also looked into using UPS and they told me that with art if you were to make a claim for loss/damage then you they would only proceed with a claim if:
1. The artist is still alive
2. The piece is replaceable (is a sold out limited edition print replaceable? In theory yes - but in practice???)
3. You would need to provide a written art gallery appraisal of the piece dated within the last year
Also, in both cases, as a private customer (as opposed to a business customer) it appears that the only person that would be entitled to claim compensation is the sender and it wouldn't benefit the receiver at all.
I also contacted a specialist carrier K Pak (someone put it up on the forum recently) and the guy there was very helpful and they are more used to packing and delivering art worth in the tens of thousands internationally. Even so, they could deliver my measly print within the UK but it would work out at about ยฃ1200 and insurance compensation, again, is determined by an existing art gallery valuation.
This makes me wonder if paying for additional compensation is actually worth bothering with at all .... has anyone out there had any experience of having to claim for a lost/damaged print or can anyone shed any more light on this whole thing for me?
Cheers, Phil
Can anyone help???
I've recently sold a high value print and I had to look more closely into the conditions/exclusions etc of insuring art through a couple of carriers. From what I can make out, Parcelforce actually only cover the price you (the sender) paid for it - which in most cases will be a lot less than it's current value. Here's the exact wording:
"Collectables - items which have appreciated in value either due to their scarcity or due to their being out of production are not excluded from cover. However, any compensation payable for loss of, or damage to, any collectable shall be limited to the actual price paid for the collectable"
I also looked into using UPS and they told me that with art if you were to make a claim for loss/damage then you they would only proceed with a claim if:
1. The artist is still alive
2. The piece is replaceable (is a sold out limited edition print replaceable? In theory yes - but in practice???)
3. You would need to provide a written art gallery appraisal of the piece dated within the last year
Also, in both cases, as a private customer (as opposed to a business customer) it appears that the only person that would be entitled to claim compensation is the sender and it wouldn't benefit the receiver at all.
I also contacted a specialist carrier K Pak (someone put it up on the forum recently) and the guy there was very helpful and they are more used to packing and delivering art worth in the tens of thousands internationally. Even so, they could deliver my measly print within the UK but it would work out at about ยฃ1200 and insurance compensation, again, is determined by an existing art gallery valuation.
This makes me wonder if paying for additional compensation is actually worth bothering with at all .... has anyone out there had any experience of having to claim for a lost/damaged print or can anyone shed any more light on this whole thing for me?
Cheers, Phil
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savilerogue
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August 2007
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Insurance for sending prints sold on ebay/forum, by savilerogue on Mar 12, 2008 11:57:03 GMT 1, "Collectables - items which have appreciated in value either due to their scarcity or due to their being out of production are not excluded from cover. However, any compensation payable for loss of, or damage to, any collectable shall be limited to the actual price paid for the collectable"
Interesting that this clause does not specify whether the limiting factor is the "actual price paid" by the person selling or receiving the print. If it was the latter you'd be OK. Any lawyers around?
"Collectables - items which have appreciated in value either due to their scarcity or due to their being out of production are not excluded from cover. However, any compensation payable for loss of, or damage to, any collectable shall be limited to the actual price paid for the collectable" Interesting that this clause does not specify whether the limiting factor is the "actual price paid" by the person selling or receiving the print. If it was the latter you'd be OK. Any lawyers around? |
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Phil Midds
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Posts โข 73
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October 2006
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Insurance for sending prints sold on ebay/forum, by Phil Midds on Mar 12, 2008 12:06:19 GMT 1, "Collectables - items which have appreciated in value either due to their scarcity or due to their being out of production are not excluded from cover. However, any compensation payable for loss of, or damage to, any collectable shall be limited to the actual price paid for the collectable" Interesting that this clause does not specify whether the limiting factor is the "actual price paid" by the person selling or receiving the print. If it was the latter you'd be OK. Any lawyers around?
My understanding of insurance is that as a standard, private, customer it would be the price you paid for it - otherwise the insurance would need to be specified in the name of the receiver/buyer - and as far as I'm aware this isn't possible (it may be if you are using the service as a business customer?)
"Collectables - items which have appreciated in value either due to their scarcity or due to their being out of production are not excluded from cover. However, any compensation payable for loss of, or damage to, any collectable shall be limited to the actual price paid for the collectable" Interesting that this clause does not specify whether the limiting factor is the "actual price paid" by the person selling or receiving the print. If it was the latter you'd be OK. Any lawyers around? My understanding of insurance is that as a standard, private, customer it would be the price you paid for it - otherwise the insurance would need to be specified in the name of the receiver/buyer - and as far as I'm aware this isn't possible (it may be if you are using the service as a business customer?) |
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savilerogue
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August 2007
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Insurance for sending prints sold on ebay/forum, by savilerogue on Mar 12, 2008 12:12:58 GMT 1, Interesting that this clause does not specify whether the limiting factor is the "actual price paid" by the person selling or receiving the print. If it was the latter you'd be OK. Any lawyers around? My understanding of insurance is that as a standard, private, customer it would be the price you paid for it - otherwise the insurance would need to be specified in the name of the receiver/buyer - and as far as I'm aware this isn't possible (it may be if you are using the service as a business customer?)
It is an interesting one for me as I work in insurance, for my sins.
Most contracts of insurance are contracts of indemnity - basically the purpose is to place the insured person in the same financial position as they were in immediately prior to the loss or damage. In the case of a destroyed art print, this would be the market value, not the price originally paid. Like comprehensive car insurance - if you write off your car you get paid market value minus any excess, not the price you originally paid for it.
Interesting that this clause does not specify whether the limiting factor is the "actual price paid" by the person selling or receiving the print. If it was the latter you'd be OK. Any lawyers around? My understanding of insurance is that as a standard, private, customer it would be the price you paid for it - otherwise the insurance would need to be specified in the name of the receiver/buyer - and as far as I'm aware this isn't possible (it may be if you are using the service as a business customer?) It is an interesting one for me as I work in insurance, for my sins. Most contracts of insurance are contracts of indemnity - basically the purpose is to place the insured person in the same financial position as they were in immediately prior to the loss or damage. In the case of a destroyed art print, this would be the market value, not the price originally paid. Like comprehensive car insurance - if you write off your car you get paid market value minus any excess, not the price you originally paid for it. |
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funyoung
Junior Member
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February 2008
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Insurance for sending prints sold on ebay/forum, by funyoung on Mar 12, 2008 12:13:39 GMT 1, interesting topic.
are you not acting as the buyers agent when you buy the insurance as it is done on their behalf and paid for indirectly by them ?(assuming you charge them postage, packing, insurance on top of the cost of the artwork)
interesting topic.
are you not acting as the buyers agent when you buy the insurance as it is done on their behalf and paid for indirectly by them ?(assuming you charge them postage, packing, insurance on top of the cost of the artwork)
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savilerogue
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Posts โข 326
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August 2007
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Insurance for sending prints sold on ebay/forum, by savilerogue on Mar 12, 2008 12:15:37 GMT 1, interesting topic. are you not acting as the buyers agent when you buy the insurance as it is done on their behalf and paid for indirectly by them ?(assuming you charge them postage, packing, insurance on top of the cost of the artwork)
I was sort of thinking along the same lines. I suppose it depends when the ownership of the print is technically tranferred from buyer to seller.
interesting topic. are you not acting as the buyers agent when you buy the insurance as it is done on their behalf and paid for indirectly by them ?(assuming you charge them postage, packing, insurance on top of the cost of the artwork) I was sort of thinking along the same lines. I suppose it depends when the ownership of the print is technically tranferred from buyer to seller. |
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Phil Midds
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October 2006
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Insurance for sending prints sold on ebay/forum, by Phil Midds on Mar 12, 2008 12:24:30 GMT 1, [/quote]I was sort of thinking along the same lines. I suppose it depends when the ownership of the print is technically tranferred from buyer to seller.[/quote]
That's another good point - I was discussing this earlier with another forum member who I work with. My thoughts were that the buyer only becomes the owner when they (or someone on their behalf) sign for delivery. In terms of determining market value - this is where it would get messy without a current gallery valuation of the actual, specific print. I can't imagine an insurance company would accept the price someone paid on ebay for it?
[/quote]I was sort of thinking along the same lines. I suppose it depends when the ownership of the print is technically tranferred from buyer to seller.[/quote]
That's another good point - I was discussing this earlier with another forum member who I work with. My thoughts were that the buyer only becomes the owner when they (or someone on their behalf) sign for delivery. In terms of determining market value - this is where it would get messy without a current gallery valuation of the actual, specific print. I can't imagine an insurance company would accept the price someone paid on ebay for it?
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savilerogue
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August 2007
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Insurance for sending prints sold on ebay/forum, by savilerogue on Mar 12, 2008 12:27:01 GMT 1,
IMO eBay prices are a far more accurate representation of 'market value'. A gallery valuation is essentially just an opinion, and in order to maintain accuracy you'd have to get one every few weeks to keep pace with market fluctuations (especially for 'Urban' or 'Street' art!).
IMO eBay prices are a far more accurate representation of 'market value'. A gallery valuation is essentially just an opinion, and in order to maintain accuracy you'd have to get one every few weeks to keep pace with market fluctuations (especially for 'Urban' or 'Street' art!).
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curiousgeorge
Junior Member
Posts โข 5,833
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March 2007
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Insurance for sending prints sold on ebay/forum, by curiousgeorge on Mar 12, 2008 12:27:52 GMT 1, My 2 cents
I recently sent a computer, to buy new would be 1.6k. Overnight service over approx 300 miles for ยฃ35 ish with ยฃ10k cover as standard
My 2 cents
I recently sent a computer, to buy new would be 1.6k. Overnight service over approx 300 miles for ยฃ35 ish with ยฃ10k cover as standard
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BME
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Posts โข 799
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December 2006
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Insurance for sending prints sold on ebay/forum, by BME on Mar 12, 2008 12:55:03 GMT 1, In the North of England, I generally use Preston couriers for expensive items. Insurance up to 25k if required. Damian is helpful and I've never had any bother. www.prestoncouriers.co.uk/
In the North of England, I generally use Preston couriers for expensive items. Insurance up to 25k if required. Damian is helpful and I've never had any bother. www.prestoncouriers.co.uk/ |
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Insurance for sending prints sold on ebay/forum, by jonpud on Mar 12, 2008 13:22:31 GMT 1, I have travelled the country, paid in cash, taken days off work etc.
Wouldn't trust ANY delivery service with anything that I couldn't afford to insure myself! Simple as that!!
My mate had a Placard Rat stolen by the Fed Ex delivery man, proved but never compensated!
Only ones safe to use post is the issuing gallery themselves, only costs a fiver to re-print!
Fuck em all I say, do it yourself!! 
I have travelled the country, paid in cash, taken days off work etc. Wouldn't trust ANY delivery service with anything that I couldn't afford to insure myself! Simple as that!! My mate had a Placard Rat stolen by the Fed Ex delivery man, proved but never compensated! Only ones safe to use post is the issuing gallery themselves, only costs a fiver to re-print! Fuck em all I say, do it yourself!! |
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Phil Midds
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Posts โข 73
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October 2006
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Insurance for sending prints sold on ebay/forum, by Phil Midds on Mar 12, 2008 13:24:04 GMT 1, In the North of England, I generally use Preston couriers for expensive items. Insurance up to 25k if required. Damian is helpful and I've never had any bother. www.prestoncouriers.co.uk/
Good shout ... all things considered I think that might be the best option. Will cost a lot more than Special Delivery but I think using a smaller local courier firm that's gonna pick it up and take it straight to the destination might be the best idea for mine and the buyers peace of mind!
In the North of England, I generally use Preston couriers for expensive items. Insurance up to 25k if required. Damian is helpful and I've never had any bother. www.prestoncouriers.co.uk/ Good shout ... all things considered I think that might be the best option. Will cost a lot more than Special Delivery but I think using a smaller local courier firm that's gonna pick it up and take it straight to the destination might be the best idea for mine and the buyers peace of mind! |
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