Heavyconsumer
Junior Member
Posts โข 4,974
Likes โข 5
February 2008
|
ARTIST OR ILLUSTRATOR? Who cares???, by Heavyconsumer on Mar 5, 2008 18:29:26 GMT 1, I don't get this at all!
There is a thread today about a guy called Tim Lane. His art is very impressive imo.
I recently posted a thread about another illustrator, Andy Council. I discovered his stuff and liked it a lot, spoke to him then fished for feedback on here. The response was surprisingly little to guage opinion. People read and looked but didn't reply, I think because of this artist/illustrator thing.
These guys are artists, their images are art, whoever buys them why should that influence our perceptions of their work? They each have very distinctive, personal styles and I'm not convinced that they could or would betray these to satisfy a client. Surely clients comission and buy because they like those styles, not want to change them???
Looking for more insight, any comments?
I don't get this at all!
There is a thread today about a guy called Tim Lane. His art is very impressive imo.
I recently posted a thread about another illustrator, Andy Council. I discovered his stuff and liked it a lot, spoke to him then fished for feedback on here. The response was surprisingly little to guage opinion. People read and looked but didn't reply, I think because of this artist/illustrator thing.
These guys are artists, their images are art, whoever buys them why should that influence our perceptions of their work? They each have very distinctive, personal styles and I'm not convinced that they could or would betray these to satisfy a client. Surely clients comission and buy because they like those styles, not want to change them???
Looking for more insight, any comments?
|
|
mike hunt
New Member
Posts โข 456
Likes โข 0
December 2006
|
ARTIST OR ILLUSTRATOR? Who cares???, by mike hunt on Mar 5, 2008 18:55:31 GMT 1, I think this is an excellent point. Artists these days are designers/illustrators. Warhol started it, and street art has built on it.
I think this is an excellent point. Artists these days are designers/illustrators. Warhol started it, and street art has built on it.
|
|
|
|
top
Junior Member
Posts โข 2,486
Likes โข 4
November 2007
|
ARTIST OR ILLUSTRATOR? Who cares???, by top on Mar 5, 2008 19:14:03 GMT 1, Sometimes threads just get overlooked bud, usually because something else of a more interesting nature takes precedence (this is interesting tho!).
An artist is an artist full-stop..be it illustrator or otherwise..
Cherri Wood for example..
Sorry for the lack of insight, I am not knowledgeable enough to delve into this subject as am way out of my depth..
Sometimes threads just get overlooked bud, usually because something else of a more interesting nature takes precedence (this is interesting tho!).
An artist is an artist full-stop..be it illustrator or otherwise..
Cherri Wood for example..
Sorry for the lack of insight, I am not knowledgeable enough to delve into this subject as am way out of my depth..
|
|
Heavyconsumer
Junior Member
Posts โข 4,974
Likes โข 5
February 2008
|
ARTIST OR ILLUSTRATOR? Who cares???, by Heavyconsumer on Mar 5, 2008 20:28:29 GMT 1, top, good point, there are a lot of threads for people of various interests to choose from..
This forum's members do claim though, to want to learn and seek out new, interesting/pleasurable forms of art. I know many may think "this is not for me" when they see something new, god knows, happens often enough for me, even with some of the most popular artists discussed on the forum!
I just think it's a shame that when something new does pop up, many of the most regular contributors don't bother to comment. I know for a fact that their opinions one way or the other, are greatly valued by the artists. In theory this is one of the best imaginable places for them to get feedback on their work. We should try to make it work that way in practice imo.
top, good point, there are a lot of threads for people of various interests to choose from..
This forum's members do claim though, to want to learn and seek out new, interesting/pleasurable forms of art. I know many may think "this is not for me" when they see something new, god knows, happens often enough for me, even with some of the most popular artists discussed on the forum!
I just think it's a shame that when something new does pop up, many of the most regular contributors don't bother to comment. I know for a fact that their opinions one way or the other, are greatly valued by the artists. In theory this is one of the best imaginable places for them to get feedback on their work. We should try to make it work that way in practice imo.
|
|
stuey09
New Member
Posts โข 49
Likes โข 1
August 2008
|
ARTIST OR ILLUSTRATOR? Who cares???, by stuey09 on Mar 5, 2008 20:39:09 GMT 1, top, good point, there are a lot of threads for people of various interests to choose from.. This forum's members do claim though, to want to learn and seek out new, interesting/pleasurable forms of art. I know many may think "this is not for me" when they see something new, god knows, happens often enough for me, even with some of the most popular artists discussed on the forum! I just think it's a shame that when something new does pop up, many of the most regular contributors don't bother to comment. I know for a fact that their opinions one way or the other, are greatly valued by the artists. In theory this is one of the best imaginable places for them to get feedback on their work. We should try to make it work that way in practice imo.
A fair point. Tbh, I think one of the most damaging aspects is when some people praise work that is blatantly mediocre at best and occasionaly poor. How this is meant to assist an artist is beyond me. Not going to churn out a load of examples, because they're quite easy to find if you look.
Bland praise or 'its crap' aren't enough. It's better to ask the artists why they have chosen their subject, what is its context, etc. Get them to justify it even. Equally if something is deemed crap, I'd like to know why its considered crap.
I'm beginning to ramble, so hope this makes sense.
top, good point, there are a lot of threads for people of various interests to choose from.. This forum's members do claim though, to want to learn and seek out new, interesting/pleasurable forms of art. I know many may think "this is not for me" when they see something new, god knows, happens often enough for me, even with some of the most popular artists discussed on the forum! I just think it's a shame that when something new does pop up, many of the most regular contributors don't bother to comment. I know for a fact that their opinions one way or the other, are greatly valued by the artists. In theory this is one of the best imaginable places for them to get feedback on their work. We should try to make it work that way in practice imo. A fair point. Tbh, I think one of the most damaging aspects is when some people praise work that is blatantly mediocre at best and occasionaly poor. How this is meant to assist an artist is beyond me. Not going to churn out a load of examples, because they're quite easy to find if you look. Bland praise or 'its crap' aren't enough. It's better to ask the artists why they have chosen their subject, what is its context, etc. Get them to justify it even. Equally if something is deemed crap, I'd like to know why its considered crap. I'm beginning to ramble, so hope this makes sense. |
|
|
|
top
Junior Member
Posts โข 2,486
Likes โข 4
November 2007
|
ARTIST OR ILLUSTRATOR? Who cares???, by top on Mar 5, 2008 21:23:09 GMT 1, I think what your trying to say stuey is that you like to talk art, rather than absentmindedly give out praise and/or untoward negative feedback..yeah? 
I admit to being flippant on occasion, mostly due to getting excited and drawn in by the crowd..I think those days are going though!
Much prefer to see people's real opinions posted, draw my own conclusions and reply with an open an honest mind.
Anyway, I'm a newbie, so expect me to talk shit often..
haha! ;D
I think what your trying to say stuey is that you like to talk art, rather than absentmindedly give out praise and/or untoward negative feedback..yeah? I admit to being flippant on occasion, mostly due to getting excited and drawn in by the crowd..I think those days are going though! Much prefer to see people's real opinions posted, draw my own conclusions and reply with an open an honest mind. Anyway, I'm a newbie, so expect me to talk shit often.. haha! ;D |
|
foundation
New Member
Posts โข 526
Likes โข 0
January 2008
|
ARTIST OR ILLUSTRATOR? Who cares???, by foundation on Mar 5, 2008 21:41:19 GMT 1, top, good point, there are a lot of threads for people of various interests to choose from.. This forum's members do claim though, to want to learn and seek out new, interesting/pleasurable forms of art. I know many may think "this is not for me" when they see something new, god knows, happens often enough for me, even with some of the most popular artists discussed on the forum! I just think it's a shame that when something new does pop up, many of the most regular contributors don't bother to comment. I know for a fact that their opinions one way or the other, are greatly valued by the artists. In theory this is one of the best imaginable places for them to get feedback on their work. We should try to make it work that way in practice imo.
top, good point, there are a lot of threads for people of various interests to choose from.. This forum's members do claim though, to want to learn and seek out new, interesting/pleasurable forms of art. I know many may think "this is not for me" when they see something new, god knows, happens often enough for me, even with some of the most popular artists discussed on the forum! I just think it's a shame that when something new does pop up, many of the most regular contributors don't bother to comment. I know for a fact that their opinions one way or the other, are greatly valued by the artists. In theory this is one of the best imaginable places for them to get feedback on their work. We should try to make it work that way in practice imo. Its a good point and one that most have taken on board at some point, but opinions are like farts, everyone loves their own but other peoples stink... and as we have seen recently, expressing an opinion ( be it well founded and well intentioned ( or the oposite, for shock value as some like to express)) tends to degenerate into a squabble sorta sharpish. I know most regular posters have been involved in or read enough not to want to get involved in any more of these. Its easier to talk about a record cover for 30 pages than to extract a well thought out critique of a new artists work...... just my opinion though. |
|
mike hunt
New Member
Posts โข 456
Likes โข 0
December 2006
|
ARTIST OR ILLUSTRATOR? Who cares???, by mike hunt on Mar 5, 2008 22:17:50 GMT 1, The lines have blurred between illustrators, designers and artists in our world. Flippant comments - I know i've been guilty - I fessed up a while ago on wk about it
The lines have blurred between illustrators, designers and artists in our world. Flippant comments - I know i've been guilty - I fessed up a while ago on wk about it
|
|
mainartery
New Member
Posts โข 255
Likes โข 0
September 2007
|
ARTIST OR ILLUSTRATOR? Who cares???, by mainartery on Mar 5, 2008 23:28:05 GMT 1, The art and design argument will always be an issue, its one of the most disgusted themes in art. However there is usually a difference between a commercial illustrator and artist as commercial illustrators will probably go where the money is and be willing to compromise. While a true artist will stay faithful the the cause.
The art and design argument will always be an issue, its one of the most disgusted themes in art. However there is usually a difference between a commercial illustrator and artist as commercial illustrators will probably go where the money is and be willing to compromise. While a true artist will stay faithful the the cause.
|
|
Heavyconsumer
Junior Member
Posts โข 4,974
Likes โข 5
February 2008
|
ARTIST OR ILLUSTRATOR? Who cares???, by Heavyconsumer on Mar 6, 2008 0:57:35 GMT 1, Funny that! I would bet most artists would be prepared to comprimise if they had the chance too. Maybe the successfull ones don't need to! If I put myself in that position (being skint is easy enough for me to imagine - oops I don't need to imagine - but also having someone offer me cash to use my skills their way), I'm sure I'd accept also. Imo there is no shame in this.
But going back to one of my earlier points, surely corporate/private clients will approach an individual because they like his/her work in the first place. Now it seems clearer to me from thinking about these comments what people are trying to say: If I'm correct people are saying that illustrators are client-driven whereas artists are purely inspirationally driven.
That certainly appears, on the face of it to be flawed by my original example, Andy Council. If you see his site, one of his images "Flower" was purchased by Orange. This image is totally in keeping with his overall theme/style. His streetwork appears to be just as in tune and the rest of the work on his site, although it shows some progression in style, all echoes his personal artistic/style characteristics.
The really funny part, is that Tim Lane's site will show pretty much the same uniformity of style throughout his work.
So I question the popular conception that illustrators (at least these days) are any different from any other artist. I'm not suggesting there are not skilled individuals who can tailor their styles, but again how is that any crime against art, rather than a display of simply being multitalented?
My next question is, are these guys doing themselves an injustice in our eyes by calling themselves "illustrators"?? Or are we doing them one by segregating them from other artists of the day? - I would guess the latter.
Funny that! I would bet most artists would be prepared to comprimise if they had the chance too. Maybe the successfull ones don't need to! If I put myself in that position (being skint is easy enough for me to imagine - oops I don't need to imagine - but also having someone offer me cash to use my skills their way), I'm sure I'd accept also. Imo there is no shame in this.
But going back to one of my earlier points, surely corporate/private clients will approach an individual because they like his/her work in the first place. Now it seems clearer to me from thinking about these comments what people are trying to say: If I'm correct people are saying that illustrators are client-driven whereas artists are purely inspirationally driven.
That certainly appears, on the face of it to be flawed by my original example, Andy Council. If you see his site, one of his images "Flower" was purchased by Orange. This image is totally in keeping with his overall theme/style. His streetwork appears to be just as in tune and the rest of the work on his site, although it shows some progression in style, all echoes his personal artistic/style characteristics.
The really funny part, is that Tim Lane's site will show pretty much the same uniformity of style throughout his work.
So I question the popular conception that illustrators (at least these days) are any different from any other artist. I'm not suggesting there are not skilled individuals who can tailor their styles, but again how is that any crime against art, rather than a display of simply being multitalented?
My next question is, are these guys doing themselves an injustice in our eyes by calling themselves "illustrators"?? Or are we doing them one by segregating them from other artists of the day? - I would guess the latter.
|
|
top
Junior Member
Posts โข 2,486
Likes โข 4
November 2007
|
ARTIST OR ILLUSTRATOR? Who cares???, by top on Mar 6, 2008 1:55:48 GMT 1, ..some artists produce prints en masse, suppose you could consider that as 'selling out' or not as the case may be..all in all, any artist would not turn down a few quid, so good luck to all artists, skilled, multi talented or otherwise..at least I assume they are doing what they want to do..I think what appeals most to me is that the artists work is purely their own , and not copied/loosely based/stolen images etc(tho I do realise art is also prone to not being an 'original thought' ..bound to be similarities/variants/exceptions ..surely it must be a chore for an inspirationally driven artist to draw for someone else(as an example)an image for money(except commissions!!)..art is not money..lets hope its future is not dictated by our pockets..
That makes Graff/Street stuff/original works inspirational and prints just 'cashing in' on popular imagery..all's fair, after all, we chose consumerism and democracy..or are we being led..
PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE, take the above with a pinch of salt, I dont profess to know fuck all about art/politics etc, so don't ask me to explain myself as its late and when I read this tomorrow, it will all be bollox that I've written..
No disrespect to anyone!!!!!!!!!!!
..some artists produce prints en masse, suppose you could consider that as 'selling out' or not as the case may be..all in all, any artist would not turn down a few quid, so good luck to all artists, skilled, multi talented or otherwise..at least I assume they are doing what they want to do..I think what appeals most to me is that the artists work is purely their own , and not copied/loosely based/stolen images etc(tho I do realise art is also prone to not being an 'original thought' ..bound to be similarities/variants/exceptions ..surely it must be a chore for an inspirationally driven artist to draw for someone else(as an example)an image for money(except commissions!!)..art is not money..lets hope its future is not dictated by our pockets..
That makes Graff/Street stuff/original works inspirational and prints just 'cashing in' on popular imagery..all's fair, after all, we chose consumerism and democracy..or are we being led..
PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE, take the above with a pinch of salt, I dont profess to know fuck all about art/politics etc, so don't ask me to explain myself as its late and when I read this tomorrow, it will all be bollox that I've written..
No disrespect to anyone!!!!!!!!!!!
|
|
Miss Bugs
Artist
New Member
Posts โข 60
Likes โข 0
July 2007
|
ARTIST OR ILLUSTRATOR? Who cares???, by Miss Bugs on Mar 6, 2008 2:01:45 GMT 1, artist, illustrator, graphic designer, street artist, urban artist, fine art pint marker, all just labels for people
that make images for others to look at....
Not sure if this helps!!
artist, illustrator, graphic designer, street artist, urban artist, fine art pint marker, all just labels for people
that make images for others to look at....
Not sure if this helps!!
|
|
Heavyconsumer
Junior Member
Posts โข 4,974
Likes โข 5
February 2008
|
ARTIST OR ILLUSTRATOR? Who cares???, by Heavyconsumer on Mar 6, 2008 3:48:17 GMT 1, Thanks Carrot, it's nice to hear my sentiment echoed by someone with a personal experience that is relevant.
So we come full circle!
The answer to why people don't seem to comment as frequently or as freely about works by artists with whom they were not previously familiar, is presumably down to the same type of herd mentality that creates economies based on "glorified Photocopies" of which I myself have so many!!! (the irony of my hypocricy is not lost on me!).
Anyway it seems that this thread has generated a little phiosophy, perhaps some form of conclusion was always unrealistic!
Too deep for me, time for bed!
Thanks Carrot, it's nice to hear my sentiment echoed by someone with a personal experience that is relevant.
So we come full circle!
The answer to why people don't seem to comment as frequently or as freely about works by artists with whom they were not previously familiar, is presumably down to the same type of herd mentality that creates economies based on "glorified Photocopies" of which I myself have so many!!! (the irony of my hypocricy is not lost on me!).
Anyway it seems that this thread has generated a little phiosophy, perhaps some form of conclusion was always unrealistic!
Too deep for me, time for bed!
|
|
|
|
Like I'm not really into the photographer's 
Nothing against them! just not my sort of thing 
