funyoung
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February 2008
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HOLD ON A MINUTE, manchestermike the flipper, by funyoung on Feb 19, 2008 12:37:58 GMT 1, A flipper is someone who buys a piece of art for the sole reason (and no other) but to sell it immediately for profit.
Capitalist economic practices became institutionalized in Europe between the 16th and 19th centuries, although some features of capitalist organization existed in the ancient world, and early forms of merchant capitalism flourished during the Middle Ages.[3][4] Capitalism has been dominant in the Western world since the end of feudalism,[5]
Wikipedia.
Point being - we hate flippers for taking away the opportunity for us to buy at cost - but it isn't exactly a new thing is it?
(not sold any art myself ..... yet)
A flipper is someone who buys a piece of art for the sole reason (and no other) but to sell it immediately for profit. Capitalist economic practices became institutionalized in Europe between the 16th and 19th centuries, although some features of capitalist organization existed in the ancient world, and early forms of merchant capitalism flourished during the Middle Ages.[3][4] Capitalism has been dominant in the Western world since the end of feudalism,[5] Wikipedia. Point being - we hate flippers for taking away the opportunity for us to buy at cost - but it isn't exactly a new thing is it? (not sold any art myself ..... yet)
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top
Junior Member
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November 2007
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HOLD ON A MINUTE, manchestermike the flipper, by top on Feb 19, 2008 12:38:22 GMT 1, hope this helps to end this thread..
hope this helps to end this thread..
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HOLD ON A MINUTE, manchestermike the flipper, by alsbabar on Feb 19, 2008 12:43:47 GMT 1, The key here is in the definition of a flipper imo. A flipper is someone who buys a piece of art for the sole reason (and no other) but to sell it immediately for proffit. Anyone who does this should rightfully be criticized as they have stopped a true collector purchasing the piece. Anyone who sells to re-invest or just doesn't like a piece anymore is not a flipper. Obviously if money is needed for an emergency then that also acceptable. You know the flippers on the bay because they are the same sellers, selling new prints and their only interest in art is "can I make some money on this". Where as the majority of this forums member's interest in art is "do I like it / want it on my wall" and if it happens to accumulate value then thats a bonus, not a necessity. imo MM is a serious collector and I wish I has a 1/10th of his collection.
Bram i have to disagree with you. A collector hardly ever sells there work. Anyone who buys art and then sells it cannot be deemed as a collector. It doesnt matter if it is done within 24 hours or 24 months - the fact remains, that person is aiming to profit from it. What some people do is try and move their art collection forwards, but by doing so, he/she buys cheap, then sells at much inflated price - its called "exploiting current market prices". I dought for one moment a Dface collage would be up for sale had it not reached the price it did at Bonhams.
So either you dont sell and you are golden, or sell at what you bought it for and you are golden, or sell at current market value, still you are golden. A person who flips shouldnt be criticised for selling. There will always be a much truer art collector who is probably more deserving then the next man - just that person needs to be quicker on the F5
The key here is in the definition of a flipper imo. A flipper is someone who buys a piece of art for the sole reason (and no other) but to sell it immediately for proffit. Anyone who does this should rightfully be criticized as they have stopped a true collector purchasing the piece. Anyone who sells to re-invest or just doesn't like a piece anymore is not a flipper. Obviously if money is needed for an emergency then that also acceptable. You know the flippers on the bay because they are the same sellers, selling new prints and their only interest in art is "can I make some money on this". Where as the majority of this forums member's interest in art is "do I like it / want it on my wall" and if it happens to accumulate value then thats a bonus, not a necessity. imo MM is a serious collector and I wish I has a 1/10th of his collection. Bram i have to disagree with you. A collector hardly ever sells there work. Anyone who buys art and then sells it cannot be deemed as a collector. It doesnt matter if it is done within 24 hours or 24 months - the fact remains, that person is aiming to profit from it. What some people do is try and move their art collection forwards, but by doing so, he/she buys cheap, then sells at much inflated price - its called "exploiting current market prices". I dought for one moment a Dface collage would be up for sale had it not reached the price it did at Bonhams. So either you dont sell and you are golden, or sell at what you bought it for and you are golden, or sell at current market value, still you are golden. A person who flips shouldnt be criticised for selling. There will always be a much truer art collector who is probably more deserving then the next man - just that person needs to be quicker on the F5
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aj
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August 2007
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HOLD ON A MINUTE, manchestermike the flipper, by aj on Feb 19, 2008 12:46:29 GMT 1, I wish i had 1/10th of his motor! ;D
Preferably the key....
I wish i had 1/10th of his motor! ;D
Preferably the key....
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funyoung
Junior Member
Posts โข 1,040
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February 2008
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HOLD ON A MINUTE, manchestermike the flipper, by funyoung on Feb 19, 2008 12:47:23 GMT 1, The key here is in the definition of a flipper imo. A flipper is someone who buys a piece of art for the sole reason (and no other) but to sell it immediately for proffit. Anyone who does this should rightfully be criticized as they have stopped a true collector purchasing the piece. Anyone who sells to re-invest or just doesn't like a piece anymore is not a flipper. Obviously if money is needed for an emergency then that also acceptable. You know the flippers on the bay because they are the same sellers, selling new prints and their only interest in art is "can I make some money on this". Where as the majority of this forums member's interest in art is "do I like it / want it on my wall" and if it happens to accumulate value then thats a bonus, not a necessity. imo MM is a serious collector and I wish I has a 1/10th of his collection. Bram i have to disagree with you. A collector hardly ever sells there work. Anyone who buys art and then sells it cannot be deemed as a collector. It doesnt matter if it is done within 24 hours or 24 months - the fact remains, that person is aiming to profit from it. What some people do is try and move their art collection forwards, but by doing so, he/she buys cheap, then sells at much inflated price - its called "exploiting current market prices". I dought for one moment a Dface collage would be up for sale had it not reached the price it did at Bonhams. So either you dont sell and you are golden, or sell at what you bought it for and you are golden, or sell at current market value, still you are golden. A person who flips shouldnt be criticised for selling. There will always be a much truer art collector who is probably more deserving then the next man - just that person needs to be quicker on the F5
Is Charles Saatchi the worlds biggest flipper?
The key here is in the definition of a flipper imo. A flipper is someone who buys a piece of art for the sole reason (and no other) but to sell it immediately for proffit. Anyone who does this should rightfully be criticized as they have stopped a true collector purchasing the piece. Anyone who sells to re-invest or just doesn't like a piece anymore is not a flipper. Obviously if money is needed for an emergency then that also acceptable. You know the flippers on the bay because they are the same sellers, selling new prints and their only interest in art is "can I make some money on this". Where as the majority of this forums member's interest in art is "do I like it / want it on my wall" and if it happens to accumulate value then thats a bonus, not a necessity. imo MM is a serious collector and I wish I has a 1/10th of his collection. Bram i have to disagree with you. A collector hardly ever sells there work. Anyone who buys art and then sells it cannot be deemed as a collector. It doesnt matter if it is done within 24 hours or 24 months - the fact remains, that person is aiming to profit from it. What some people do is try and move their art collection forwards, but by doing so, he/she buys cheap, then sells at much inflated price - its called "exploiting current market prices". I dought for one moment a Dface collage would be up for sale had it not reached the price it did at Bonhams. So either you dont sell and you are golden, or sell at what you bought it for and you are golden, or sell at current market value, still you are golden. A person who flips shouldnt be criticised for selling. There will always be a much truer art collector who is probably more deserving then the next man - just that person needs to be quicker on the F5 Is Charles Saatchi the worlds biggest flipper?
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top
Junior Member
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November 2007
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HOLD ON A MINUTE, manchestermike the flipper, by top on Feb 19, 2008 12:48:33 GMT 1, I wish i had 1/10th of his motor! ;D Preferably the key....
..poor man's 911 eh Mike
;D
I wish i had 1/10th of his motor! ;D Preferably the key.... ..poor man's 911 eh Mike ;D
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HOLD ON A MINUTE, manchestermike the flipper, by manchestermike on Feb 19, 2008 12:49:25 GMT 1, I wish i had 1/10th of his motor! ;D Preferably the key.... ..poor man's 911 eh Mike ;D
Pah... 2/3 the price and twice as good
I wish i had 1/10th of his motor! ;D Preferably the key.... ..poor man's 911 eh Mike ;D Pah... 2/3 the price and twice as good
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HOLD ON A MINUTE, manchestermike the flipper, by alsbabar on Feb 19, 2008 12:49:43 GMT 1, Saatchi is an art dealer not a collector
Saatchi is an art dealer not a collector
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aj
New Member
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August 2007
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HOLD ON A MINUTE, manchestermike the flipper, by aj on Feb 19, 2008 12:50:32 GMT 1, I wish i had 1/10th of his motor! ;D Preferably the key.... ..poor man's 911 eh Mike ;D Rich mans fiesta?
I wish i had 1/10th of his motor! ;D Preferably the key.... ..poor man's 911 eh Mike ;D Rich mans fiesta?
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top
Junior Member
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November 2007
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HOLD ON A MINUTE, manchestermike the flipper, by top on Feb 19, 2008 12:50:50 GMT 1, ..poor man's 911 eh Mike ;D Pah... 2/3 the price and twice as good
lol ;D
..poor man's 911 eh Mike ;D Pah... 2/3 the price and twice as good lol ;D
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robinbanks
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October 2007
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HOLD ON A MINUTE, manchestermike the flipper, by robinbanks on Feb 19, 2008 13:01:10 GMT 1, Saatchi is an art dealer not a collector
Charles Saatchi shows his "collection" in his public gallery. Surely that defines him a collector?
Adam Lindemann certainly thinks so, and I'd hazard a guess that he knows a damn site more about art than you do.
Saatchi is an art dealer not a collector Charles Saatchi shows his "collection" in his public gallery. Surely that defines him a collector? Adam Lindemann certainly thinks so, and I'd hazard a guess that he knows a damn site more about art than you do.
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funyoung
Junior Member
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February 2008
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HOLD ON A MINUTE, manchestermike the flipper, by funyoung on Feb 19, 2008 13:01:15 GMT 1, if people want a more mature view on art collecting / flipping / selling (this backs your way of doing things mike) then try reading charles saatchi on the matter:
www.saatchi-gallery.co.uk/charlesqa/qa.htm
most relevant bit is:
especially the last sentence.
if people want a more mature view on art collecting / flipping / selling (this backs your way of doing things mike) then try reading charles saatchi on the matter: www.saatchi-gallery.co.uk/charlesqa/qa.htmmost relevant bit is: especially the last sentence.
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Martin Whatson
Artist
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May 2007
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HOLD ON A MINUTE, manchestermike the flipper, by Martin Whatson on Feb 19, 2008 13:04:41 GMT 1, is flipping getting justified by calling yourself an art dealer then?
is flipping getting justified by calling yourself an art dealer then?
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HOLD ON A MINUTE, manchestermike the flipper, by alsbabar on Feb 19, 2008 13:12:19 GMT 1, Saatchi is an art dealer not a collector Charles Saatchi shows his "collection" in his public gallery. Surely that defines him a collector? Adam Lindemann certainly thinks so, and I'd hazard a guess that he knows a damn site more about art than you do.
in his public gallery which he gets paid for - via lottery money or via other means, so dont think you are seeing his stuff for free. Hell I would charge ยฃ5 for people to come over and see my collection, i have a few banksys, dface originals, kelsey brookes, guy dennings - my wife would even make you a cup of tea - taste like soap water but beggars cant be choosers
Saatchi is an art dealer not a collector Charles Saatchi shows his "collection" in his public gallery. Surely that defines him a collector? Adam Lindemann certainly thinks so, and I'd hazard a guess that he knows a damn site more about art than you do. in his public gallery which he gets paid for - via lottery money or via other means, so dont think you are seeing his stuff for free. Hell I would charge ยฃ5 for people to come over and see my collection, i have a few banksys, dface originals, kelsey brookes, guy dennings - my wife would even make you a cup of tea - taste like soap water but beggars cant be choosers
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top
Junior Member
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November 2007
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HOLD ON A MINUTE, manchestermike the flipper, by top on Feb 19, 2008 13:13:48 GMT 1, ..poor man's 911 eh Mike ;D Rich mans fiesta?
..quite literally bud!
..ya got me there! hehe ;D
..poor man's 911 eh Mike ;D Rich mans fiesta? ..quite literally bud! ..ya got me there! hehe ;D
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HOLD ON A MINUTE, manchestermike the flipper, by alsbabar on Feb 19, 2008 13:15:08 GMT 1, is flipping getting justified by calling yourself an art dealer then?
whatson, actually what difference does it make to you as an artist, as long as your art is sold and a demand is made for your work, do you care if it is a flipper who buys to sell, or an art dealer who buys to sell, as long as it sells?
Plus flippers is a terminology i only ever hear in this forum.
is flipping getting justified by calling yourself an art dealer then? whatson, actually what difference does it make to you as an artist, as long as your art is sold and a demand is made for your work, do you care if it is a flipper who buys to sell, or an art dealer who buys to sell, as long as it sells? Plus flippers is a terminology i only ever hear in this forum.
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top
Junior Member
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November 2007
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HOLD ON A MINUTE, manchestermike the flipper, by top on Feb 19, 2008 13:16:40 GMT 1, but just remember damon alburn there are people that know about art and there are people that pretend they know about it and say things that they have over heard others talking about
..that's me fooked then
hahaha ;D
but just remember damon alburn there are people that know about art and there are people that pretend they know about it and say things that they have over heard others talking about ..that's me fooked then hahaha ;D
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HOLD ON A MINUTE, manchestermike the flipper, by mammal2 on Feb 19, 2008 13:16:47 GMT 1, Have to stand up for MM here. A truly great guy with a brilliant collection! A business that I wish I had that allows him to buy the best! A great eye for good work, and a gent to talk to! Most boring thread I have ever read by the way! Oi Oi
Have to stand up for MM here. A truly great guy with a brilliant collection! A business that I wish I had that allows him to buy the best! A great eye for good work, and a gent to talk to! Most boring thread I have ever read by the way! Oi Oi
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HOLD ON A MINUTE, manchestermike the flipper, by alsbabar on Feb 19, 2008 13:18:10 GMT 1, then dont read it mammal - you have a choice!!!
then dont read it mammal - you have a choice!!!
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HOLD ON A MINUTE, manchestermike the flipper, by mammal2 on Feb 19, 2008 13:26:26 GMT 1, i wish i did but i think im addicted to this board! need to get a crack habit to take the shine off!
i wish i did but i think im addicted to this board! need to get a crack habit to take the shine off!
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HOLD ON A MINUTE, manchestermike the flipper, by alsbabar on Feb 19, 2008 13:28:21 GMT 1, i hear you on that one tosspot
i hear you on that one tosspot
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HOLD ON A MINUTE, manchestermike the flipper, by arcam on Feb 19, 2008 13:35:30 GMT 1, At the end of the day no one has the right to judge others.
At the end of the day no one has the right to judge others.
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HOLD ON A MINUTE, manchestermike the flipper, by mammal2 on Feb 19, 2008 13:36:32 GMT 1, cheers printsland!
cheers printsland!
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loucastel
Junior Member
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October 2007
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HOLD ON A MINUTE, manchestermike the flipper, by loucastel on Feb 19, 2008 13:38:11 GMT 1, At the end of the day no one has the right to judge others. Oh how I wish that was true, there are a lot on here who should heed those wise words!!
At the end of the day no one has the right to judge others. Oh how I wish that was true, there are a lot on here who should heed those wise words!!
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Bram
Artist
Junior Member
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November 2007
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HOLD ON A MINUTE, manchestermike the flipper, by Bram on Feb 19, 2008 13:38:14 GMT 1, A true collector never sells?
A true collector with loads of money and plenty of wall space maybe.
My meager income and tiny shed tells me if I want more and more pieces at some point something would have to go. Would that make me a flipper or an art dealer. imo neither.
A true collector never sells?
A true collector with loads of money and plenty of wall space maybe.
My meager income and tiny shed tells me if I want more and more pieces at some point something would have to go. Would that make me a flipper or an art dealer. imo neither.
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HOLD ON A MINUTE, manchestermike the flipper, by dave313perry on Feb 19, 2008 13:43:33 GMT 1, Theres so many variables its impossible to depict exactly what a flipper is, a flipper is simply a term used by us on here which is usually aimed at..(amongst others...)
people selling prints before they receive them over hyping an artist or work, only to sell when a huge price can be attained as a result of hype people who have no art on their walls, who purchase it just to fund other interests
thats my view anyway and thats how i distinguish a collector from a flipper, everyone sells and buys, really bored of this topic now, it never has a conclusion and just creates friction and usually ends up in personal insults, i think weve already ticked all the boxes so im out...
Theres so many variables its impossible to depict exactly what a flipper is, a flipper is simply a term used by us on here which is usually aimed at..(amongst others...)
people selling prints before they receive them over hyping an artist or work, only to sell when a huge price can be attained as a result of hype people who have no art on their walls, who purchase it just to fund other interests
thats my view anyway and thats how i distinguish a collector from a flipper, everyone sells and buys, really bored of this topic now, it never has a conclusion and just creates friction and usually ends up in personal insults, i think weve already ticked all the boxes so im out...
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top
Junior Member
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November 2007
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HOLD ON A MINUTE, manchestermike the flipper, by top on Feb 19, 2008 14:08:16 GMT 1, ..its gonna get messy soon..
..time to bow out and wait for the inevitable abuse and closure of this thread..
..its gonna get messy soon..
..time to bow out and wait for the inevitable abuse and closure of this thread..
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jfury
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May 2007
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HOLD ON A MINUTE, manchestermike the flipper, by jfury on Feb 19, 2008 14:25:19 GMT 1, the same old boring argument yawn....we have all bought stuff and we have all sold stuff...sometimes we make money, sometimes we break even and sometimes we lose.
....peronally I see a "flipper" as the fat dude from laz with the 32 family members or the other guy from BRP queue. The majority of us are not to that extreme (I like to think so anyway).
Maybe we can have one thread in a seperate section that just endlessley debates the correct definition of a flipper then leave it at that. At least we wont see a new thread debating the same old topic once a month
....and yes I realise I am contributing to the thread I am moaning about
the same old boring argument yawn....we have all bought stuff and we have all sold stuff...sometimes we make money, sometimes we break even and sometimes we lose. ....peronally I see a "flipper" as the fat dude from laz with the 32 family members or the other guy from BRP queue. The majority of us are not to that extreme (I like to think so anyway). Maybe we can have one thread in a seperate section that just endlessley debates the correct definition of a flipper then leave it at that. At least we wont see a new thread debating the same old topic once a month ....and yes I realise I am contributing to the thread I am moaning about
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BONGO
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February 2007
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HOLD ON A MINUTE, manchestermike the flipper, by BONGO on Feb 19, 2008 14:26:53 GMT 1, BONGO NOTES THAT THE STASI AND SECURITATE WORKED BY CASTING SUSPICION OVER EVERYONE AND ENCOURAGING FRIENDS TO INFORM ON EACH OTHER TO GAIN SMALL REWARDS SUCH AS A BIGGER FLAT.
BONGO UNDERSTANDS HOW DISRUPTIVE IT CAN BECOME WHEN PEOPLE BEGIN TO INFORM ON EACH OTHER AND POINT ACCUSING FINGERS. THE SECURITY SERVICES DID NOT NEED TO IMPRISON OR TORTURE, OR EVEN ARREST PEOPLE.
WHY BOTHER WITH AN ORGANISED UNIFORMED POLICE FORCE WHEN WE INVARIABLY BECOME POLICEMEN TO OURSELVES
BONGO NOTES THAT THE STASI AND SECURITATE WORKED BY CASTING SUSPICION OVER EVERYONE AND ENCOURAGING FRIENDS TO INFORM ON EACH OTHER TO GAIN SMALL REWARDS SUCH AS A BIGGER FLAT.
BONGO UNDERSTANDS HOW DISRUPTIVE IT CAN BECOME WHEN PEOPLE BEGIN TO INFORM ON EACH OTHER AND POINT ACCUSING FINGERS. THE SECURITY SERVICES DID NOT NEED TO IMPRISON OR TORTURE, OR EVEN ARREST PEOPLE.
WHY BOTHER WITH AN ORGANISED UNIFORMED POLICE FORCE WHEN WE INVARIABLY BECOME POLICEMEN TO OURSELVES
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jfury
Junior Member
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May 2007
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HOLD ON A MINUTE, manchestermike the flipper, by jfury on Feb 19, 2008 14:30:34 GMT 1, BONGO NOTES THAT THE STASI AND SECURITATE WORKED BY CASTING SUSPICION OVER EVERYONE AND ENCOURAGING FRIENDS TO INFORM ON EACH OTHER TO GAIN SMALL REWARDS SUCH AS A BIGGER FLAT. BONGO UNDERSTANDS HOW DISRUPTIVE IT CAN BECOME WHEN PEOPLE BEGIN TO INFORM ON EACH OTHER AND POINT ACCUSING FINGERS. THE SECURITY SERVICES DID NOT NEED TO IMPRISON OR TORTURE, OR EVEN ARREST PEOPLE. WHY BOTHER WITH AN ORGANISED UNIFORMED POLICE FORCE WHEN WE INVARIABLY BECOME POLICEMEN TO OURSELVES
Bongo everytime you nail it spot on...As I have said many times before I wish I had your endless fountain of knowledge!!!
BONGO NOTES THAT THE STASI AND SECURITATE WORKED BY CASTING SUSPICION OVER EVERYONE AND ENCOURAGING FRIENDS TO INFORM ON EACH OTHER TO GAIN SMALL REWARDS SUCH AS A BIGGER FLAT. BONGO UNDERSTANDS HOW DISRUPTIVE IT CAN BECOME WHEN PEOPLE BEGIN TO INFORM ON EACH OTHER AND POINT ACCUSING FINGERS. THE SECURITY SERVICES DID NOT NEED TO IMPRISON OR TORTURE, OR EVEN ARREST PEOPLE. WHY BOTHER WITH AN ORGANISED UNIFORMED POLICE FORCE WHEN WE INVARIABLY BECOME POLICEMEN TO OURSELVES Bongo everytime you nail it spot on...As I have said many times before I wish I had your endless fountain of knowledge!!!
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