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The Next Big Thing, by mcnuts on Feb 20, 2007 15:23:15 GMT 1, his stuff has been around for a while so why is it all selling out so quickly? To me it reeks of people buying solely for financial purposes. Pretty obvious, i know. Dan Baldwin=Snake Oil.....people are trying to get the same returns as Banksy has seen. The difference is that Banksy's rise was organic rather than manufactured. Seems to be a bubble economy. What the f**k though, buy his stuff if you like it, and even if you don't you may as well fleece some other sucka in the short term and buy something you like.
Playa hater and playa lovers. As I have said, some of his stuff is very, very cool. ApocWow and DisneyF*** amongst them. There is some boot sale quality stuff too (that dog print?). I can't afford ยฃ400 for a print but politics at ยฃ150 is a steal. It's art I like and, if the hype pushes it up in value, great. I say all the best to any artist trying to make a living out his/her art.
his stuff has been around for a while so why is it all selling out so quickly? To me it reeks of people buying solely for financial purposes. Pretty obvious, i know. Dan Baldwin=Snake Oil.....people are trying to get the same returns as Banksy has seen. The difference is that Banksy's rise was organic rather than manufactured. Seems to be a bubble economy. What the f**k though, buy his stuff if you like it, and even if you don't you may as well fleece some other sucka in the short term and buy something you like. Playa hater and playa lovers. As I have said, some of his stuff is very, very cool. ApocWow and DisneyF*** amongst them. There is some boot sale quality stuff too (that dog print?). I can't afford ยฃ400 for a print but politics at ยฃ150 is a steal. It's art I like and, if the hype pushes it up in value, great. I say all the best to any artist trying to make a living out his/her art. |
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The Next Big Thing, by Daniel Silk on Feb 20, 2007 16:36:43 GMT 1, Dan Baldwin - is definitely the one to watch. His last 3 prints have sold out. The last set sold out in 3 days. Prices have doubled in the last few weeks!!! The quality of the prints are excellent also.
Sorry  Just coz they have sold out dunt mean I should like them 
Dan Baldwin - is definitely the one to watch. His last 3 prints have sold out. The last set sold out in 3 days. Prices have doubled in the last few weeks!!! The quality of the prints are excellent also. Sorry Just coz they have sold out dunt mean I should like them |
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frank11
Junior Member
๐จ๏ธ 1,190
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September 2006
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The Next Big Thing, by frank11 on Feb 20, 2007 16:40:03 GMT 1, Dan Baldwin - is definitely the one to watch. His last 3 prints have sold out. The last set sold out in 3 days. Prices have doubled in the last few weeks!!! The quality of the prints are excellent also. Sorry Just coz they have sold out dunt mean I should like them
Dan Baldwin - is definitely the one to watch. His last 3 prints have sold out. The last set sold out in 3 days. Prices have doubled in the last few weeks!!! The quality of the prints are excellent also. Sorry Just coz they have sold out dunt mean I should like them Yup i agree i think alot of his stuff is just plain awfull! |
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The Next Big Thing, by manchestermike on Feb 20, 2007 16:40:23 GMT 1, Dan Baldwin - is definitely the one to watch. His last 3 prints have sold out. The last set sold out in 3 days. Prices have doubled in the last few weeks!!! The quality of the prints are excellent also. Sorry Just coz they have sold out dunt mean I should like them
But them being really good means you should? 
Dan Baldwin - is definitely the one to watch. His last 3 prints have sold out. The last set sold out in 3 days. Prices have doubled in the last few weeks!!! The quality of the prints are excellent also. Sorry Just coz they have sold out dunt mean I should like them But them being really good means you should? |
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alvington89
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October 2006
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The Next Big Thing, by alvington89 on Feb 20, 2007 16:51:15 GMT 1, Personally I just don't get Dan Baldwin's stuff or see what all the fuss is about.
Skulls, swear words, fag packets, silver foil and bullets. All looks like Laurence Lewellyn-Bowen on acid decoupagรฉ gone awry.
Personally I just don't get Dan Baldwin's stuff or see what all the fuss is about.
Skulls, swear words, fag packets, silver foil and bullets. All looks like Laurence Lewellyn-Bowen on acid decoupagรฉ gone awry.
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RBK
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September 2006
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The Next Big Thing, by RBK on Feb 20, 2007 20:08:43 GMT 1, I would never buy a Dan Baldwin piece period - it is was 500 selling at Laz or 50 at a street fair. But different strokes for different folks. A lot of people were hating on Ben Turnbull - but I think his stuff is class.
I would never buy a Dan Baldwin piece period - it is was 500 selling at Laz or 50 at a street fair. But different strokes for different folks. A lot of people were hating on Ben Turnbull - but I think his stuff is class.
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The Next Big Thing, by slowmo on Feb 20, 2007 20:48:52 GMT 1, Bought apocolypse wow on the strength of the piece when I saw it at the London art Fair. Its the best print (not original but sure looks close) I have ever seen in terms of production, looks good and I felt was good value for money.
Certainly can understand why it wouldn't appeal to a lot of people on a banksy forum as it is miles away from Banksy style work. Enjoy the freshness of it all. Most of my banksy stuff is the plain stuff bar Grannies which I also enjoy because of its brightness. Just hope that when I get mine home it will bring some nice balance to my walls against a lot of essentially black and white work.
Bought apocolypse wow on the strength of the piece when I saw it at the London art Fair. Its the best print (not original but sure looks close) I have ever seen in terms of production, looks good and I felt was good value for money.
Certainly can understand why it wouldn't appeal to a lot of people on a banksy forum as it is miles away from Banksy style work. Enjoy the freshness of it all. Most of my banksy stuff is the plain stuff bar Grannies which I also enjoy because of its brightness. Just hope that when I get mine home it will bring some nice balance to my walls against a lot of essentially black and white work.
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Run Pig Run
Junior Member
๐จ๏ธ 2,437
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January 2006
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The Next Big Thing, by Run Pig Run on Feb 20, 2007 21:04:48 GMT 1, yeah, i like most of dan baldwins stuff and the quality of the prints are pretty incredible, I posted a topic about him 6 months ago on here - no one gave a fuck. weird how this forum can turn an artist into a 'the next big thing' overnight....I hope Silky is getting something out of all this........?
yeah, i like most of dan baldwins stuff and the quality of the prints are pretty incredible, I posted a topic about him 6 months ago on here - no one gave a fuck. weird how this forum can turn an artist into a 'the next big thing' overnight....I hope Silky is getting something out of all this........?
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The Next Big Thing, by slowmo on Feb 21, 2007 10:40:37 GMT 1, Very good point bombhugger, was discussing the exact same thing with my wife last night. Thought it would be interesting for a newspaper reporter to set up a sting as an artist, produce a load of prints, hype them via association to known artists, press coverage, a secretive new website, blog all forums on contemporary art and see if they became an overnight star.
Very good point bombhugger, was discussing the exact same thing with my wife last night. Thought it would be interesting for a newspaper reporter to set up a sting as an artist, produce a load of prints, hype them via association to known artists, press coverage, a secretive new website, blog all forums on contemporary art and see if they became an overnight star.
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The Next Big Thing, by manchestermike on Feb 21, 2007 10:56:43 GMT 1, Very good point bombhugger, was discussing the exact same thing with my wife last night. Thought it would be interesting for a newspaper reporter to set up a sting as an artist, produce a load of prints, hype them via association to known artists, press coverage, a secretive new website, blog all forums on contemporary art and see if they became an overnight star.
The work would still have to be good though
Very good point bombhugger, was discussing the exact same thing with my wife last night. Thought it would be interesting for a newspaper reporter to set up a sting as an artist, produce a load of prints, hype them via association to known artists, press coverage, a secretive new website, blog all forums on contemporary art and see if they became an overnight star. The work would still have to be good though |
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pezlow
Junior Member
๐จ๏ธ 5,388
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January 2007
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The Next Big Thing, by pezlow on Feb 21, 2007 11:09:49 GMT 1, Who knows what makes an artist hot. Baldwin clearly is the current blue eyed boy and I agree with most that his work is quite average. Also I am not sure why it is being hyped on these forums when it is not "street work". There are plenty of artists plying their trade so why is he selected.
On the street artists scene there are many who, in my opinion, are very underated - Eine, Ghostboy, Sickboy and others and then many who, in my opinion, are overrated but I won't mention names because I really don't want to have to engage in a pointless debate where people tell me I'm wrong for criticising their style and that I know nothing about art.
Who knows what makes an artist hot. Baldwin clearly is the current blue eyed boy and I agree with most that his work is quite average. Also I am not sure why it is being hyped on these forums when it is not "street work". There are plenty of artists plying their trade so why is he selected.
On the street artists scene there are many who, in my opinion, are very underated - Eine, Ghostboy, Sickboy and others and then many who, in my opinion, are overrated but I won't mention names because I really don't want to have to engage in a pointless debate where people tell me I'm wrong for criticising their style and that I know nothing about art.
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The Next Big Thing, by johnas on Feb 21, 2007 11:16:47 GMT 1, Very good point bombhugger, was discussing the exact same thing with my wife last night. Thought it would be interesting for a newspaper reporter to set up a sting as an artist, produce a load of prints, hype them via association to known artists, press coverage, a secretive new website, blog all forums on contemporary art and see if they became an overnight star.
It would be interesting to do just to see if, as many people claim, it's all about the art. If the art was good enough to stand up by itself, then a well oiled PR machine could definitely turn a nobody into an overnight star.
However, if the art is OK at best, would it still be possible through clever PR stunts, targeted marketing and spin to do the same?? I think the answer is YES... they could become an overnight star but I doubt they could rise to the same level as Banksy as it's essentially his art that has led to his meteroic rise. Instead, they would purely be a fad that would disappear as quickly as they arrived. To site an xample, just look at programmes like Pop Idol - hype hype hype only to turn up in bargain buckets at Woolworths the following week ;D
Personally I think that there are plenty of people out there who buy for the wrong reasons and buy because they're told artist X is the 'Next Big Thing'. People like to think they're marketing savvy but it just ain't true.
Very good point bombhugger, was discussing the exact same thing with my wife last night. Thought it would be interesting for a newspaper reporter to set up a sting as an artist, produce a load of prints, hype them via association to known artists, press coverage, a secretive new website, blog all forums on contemporary art and see if they became an overnight star. It would be interesting to do just to see if, as many people claim, it's all about the art. If the art was good enough to stand up by itself, then a well oiled PR machine could definitely turn a nobody into an overnight star. However, if the art is OK at best, would it still be possible through clever PR stunts, targeted marketing and spin to do the same?? I think the answer is YES... they could become an overnight star but I doubt they could rise to the same level as Banksy as it's essentially his art that has led to his meteroic rise. Instead, they would purely be a fad that would disappear as quickly as they arrived. To site an xample, just look at programmes like Pop Idol - hype hype hype only to turn up in bargain buckets at Woolworths the following week ;D Personally I think that there are plenty of people out there who buy for the wrong reasons and buy because they're told artist X is the 'Next Big Thing'. People like to think they're marketing savvy but it just ain't true. |
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The Next Big Thing, by slowmo on Feb 21, 2007 11:19:05 GMT 1, I think this forum has gone way beyond street art, Micallef gets almost as much written on here as Banksy. I appreciate it when people flag anything contemporary on here.
Don't get many photo's on here of pieces people have seen in the streets because I think most people want pieces on their walls at home on here now, I guess its a forum in flux from its orginal starting place but theirs plenty of threads and so plenty of room for everyone.
I think this forum has gone way beyond street art, Micallef gets almost as much written on here as Banksy. I appreciate it when people flag anything contemporary on here.
Don't get many photo's on here of pieces people have seen in the streets because I think most people want pieces on their walls at home on here now, I guess its a forum in flux from its orginal starting place but theirs plenty of threads and so plenty of room for everyone.
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romanywg
Junior Member
๐จ๏ธ 4,093
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October 2006
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The Next Big Thing, by romanywg on Feb 21, 2007 11:31:29 GMT 1, It would be interesting to do just to see if, as many people claim, it's all about the art. If the art was good enough to stand up by itself, then a well oiled PR machine could definitely turn a nobody into an overnight star.
Reminds me of William Boyds' 'Nat Tate' in which the author presents the paintings and tragic biography of a supposed New York-based 1950s Abstract Expressionist painter, a man named Nat Tate, who actually never existed and was, along with his paintings, a creation of Boyd's. When the book was initially published, it was not revealed that it was a work of fiction, and some were duped by the hoax; it was launched at a lavish party, with excerpts read by David Bowie (who was in on the joke), and a number of prominent members of the art world claimed to remember the artist. It caused quite a stir once the truth was revealed.
It would be interesting to do just to see if, as many people claim, it's all about the art. If the art was good enough to stand up by itself, then a well oiled PR machine could definitely turn a nobody into an overnight star.
Reminds me of William Boyds' 'Nat Tate' in which the author presents the paintings and tragic biography of a supposed New York-based 1950s Abstract Expressionist painter, a man named Nat Tate, who actually never existed and was, along with his paintings, a creation of Boyd's. When the book was initially published, it was not revealed that it was a work of fiction, and some were duped by the hoax; it was launched at a lavish party, with excerpts read by David Bowie (who was in on the joke), and a number of prominent members of the art world claimed to remember the artist. It caused quite a stir once the truth was revealed.
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pezlow
Junior Member
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January 2007
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The Next Big Thing, by pezlow on Feb 21, 2007 11:32:55 GMT 1, appreciate that this forum goes beyond street art. My question was really why certain "non-street" artists have a high profile on this forum and others, who have been plying their trade for years, don't.
appreciate that this forum goes beyond street art. My question was really why certain "non-street" artists have a high profile on this forum and others, who have been plying their trade for years, don't.
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The Next Big Thing, by slowmo on Feb 21, 2007 11:54:46 GMT 1, Its a good question, I think Ghostboys can be easily answered, he has never yet produced a good print. I Like his street stuff but have only seen it from his website.
Its a good question, I think Ghostboys can be easily answered, he has never yet produced a good print. I Like his street stuff but have only seen it from his website.
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The Next Big Thing, by corblimeylimey on Feb 21, 2007 12:17:42 GMT 1, It does surprise me that there seems to be so little interest in some corners of this site, like the Sreet Art section, this is what it's all about. I posted some pics of graffiti in November that I took in Barcelona nearly 2 years ago, and it's only had 22 hits.
banksyforum.proboards82.com/index.cgi?board=streetartgallery&action=display&thread=1164742249
I have great admiration for some members particularly HowAboutNo, Nuart (formally known as Numusic) and Martin but there are others, who are really interested in where all this is coming from and spend time posting pics.
It's not all about prints, but it seems there's too many people here only interested in prints for profit.
If you're really interested in this kind of stuff you must visit HowAboutNo's Flickr photos www.flickr.com/photos/howaboutno/
It does surprise me that there seems to be so little interest in some corners of this site, like the Sreet Art section, this is what it's all about. I posted some pics of graffiti in November that I took in Barcelona nearly 2 years ago, and it's only had 22 hits. banksyforum.proboards82.com/index.cgi?board=streetartgallery&action=display&thread=1164742249I have great admiration for some members particularly HowAboutNo, Nuart (formally known as Numusic) and Martin but there are others, who are really interested in where all this is coming from and spend time posting pics. It's not all about prints, but it seems there's too many people here only interested in prints for profit. If you're really interested in this kind of stuff you must visit HowAboutNo's Flickr photos www.flickr.com/photos/howaboutno/ |
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The Next Big Thing, by monochrome on Feb 21, 2007 12:21:39 GMT 1, It does surprise me that there seems to be so little interest in some corners of this site, like the Sreet Art section, this is what it's all about. I posted some pics of graffiti in November that I took in Barcelona nearly 2 years ago, and it's only had 22 hits. banksyforum.proboards82.com/index.cgi?board=streetartgallery&action=display&thread=1164742249I have great admiration for some members particularly HowAboutNo, Nuart (formally known as Numusic) and Martin but there are others, who are really interested in where all this is coming from and spend time posting pics. It's not all about prints, but it seems there's too many people here only interested in prints for profit. If you're really interested in this kind of stuff you must visit HowAboutNo's Flickr photos www.flickr.com/photos/howaboutno/
perhaps this is the wrong place to discuss Street Art
It does surprise me that there seems to be so little interest in some corners of this site, like the Sreet Art section, this is what it's all about. I posted some pics of graffiti in November that I took in Barcelona nearly 2 years ago, and it's only had 22 hits. banksyforum.proboards82.com/index.cgi?board=streetartgallery&action=display&thread=1164742249I have great admiration for some members particularly HowAboutNo, Nuart (formally known as Numusic) and Martin but there are others, who are really interested in where all this is coming from and spend time posting pics. It's not all about prints, but it seems there's too many people here only interested in prints for profit. If you're really interested in this kind of stuff you must visit HowAboutNo's Flickr photos www.flickr.com/photos/howaboutno/perhaps this is the wrong place to discuss Street Art |
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The Next Big Thing, by corblimeylimey on Feb 21, 2007 12:25:40 GMT 1, How can this be the wrong place, this is what it's all about.
How can this be the wrong place, this is what it's all about.
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gbh
Junior Member
๐จ๏ธ 2,595
๐๐ป 14
May 2006
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The Next Big Thing, by gbh on Feb 21, 2007 12:27:52 GMT 1, Its a good question, I think Ghostboys can be easily answered, he has never yet produced a good print. I Like his street stuff but have only seen it from his website.
Umm, beg to differ.
HFH is one of my all time favourite prints by anyone
Its a good question, I think Ghostboys can be easily answered, he has never yet produced a good print. I Like his street stuff but have only seen it from his website. Umm, beg to differ. HFH is one of my all time favourite prints by anyone |
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The Next Big Thing, by Daniel Silk on Feb 21, 2007 12:31:35 GMT 1, appreciate that this forum goes beyond street art. My question was really why certain "non-street" artists have a high profile on this forum and others, who have been plying their trade for years, don't.
I guess people are just talking about the artists they are interested in  The reason for setting up the other forums such as Micallef, Nick Walker, D*Face, Dolk and Eelus was to give people the opportunity to keep the different subjects apart, but still making them a group of forums so people can still find out about the other artists easily ;D
appreciate that this forum goes beyond street art. My question was really why certain "non-street" artists have a high profile on this forum and others, who have been plying their trade for years, don't. I guess people are just talking about the artists they are interested in The reason for setting up the other forums such as Micallef, Nick Walker, D*Face, Dolk and Eelus was to give people the opportunity to keep the different subjects apart, but still making them a group of forums so people can still find out about the other artists easily ;D |
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The Next Big Thing, by slowmo on Feb 21, 2007 12:32:22 GMT 1, anywhere I can see it? the ghostboy one
anywhere I can see it? the ghostboy one
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The Next Big Thing, by slowmo on Feb 21, 2007 12:37:34 GMT 1, You don't mean Ho F'ing Ho do you? Thats awful. Sorry thats a bit strong, what is becoming clear though GBH is we have very different tastes, you liked the Pandas Rock as well didn't you. To each there own
You don't mean Ho F'ing Ho do you? Thats awful. Sorry thats a bit strong, what is becoming clear though GBH is we have very different tastes, you liked the Pandas Rock as well didn't you. To each there own
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mxale
New Member
๐จ๏ธ 33
๐๐ป 0
January 2007
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The Next Big Thing, by mxale on Feb 21, 2007 13:09:19 GMT 1, Hutch is the man... check out Opus underground 2cy
Hutch is the man... check out Opus underground 2cy
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gbh
Junior Member
๐จ๏ธ 2,595
๐๐ป 14
May 2006
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The Next Big Thing, by gbh on Feb 21, 2007 14:46:17 GMT 1, You don't mean Ho F'ing Ho do you? Thats awful. Sorry thats a bit strong, what is becoming clear though GBH is we have very different tastes, you liked the Pandas Rock as well didn't you. To each there own
www.globalskunkworks.com/gallery/main.php/v/Ghostboy/
HFH is one of my all time favourites.
Everyone has different tastes. That's the beautiful thing. Just because you don't like GB, doesn't mean he is a shit artist or his work is crap.
Because I like his work, doesn't mean he is Picasso either.
I'm just not a fan of slagging off artists or their work because it's not to my taste.
I'm not a fan of Micallef at all but I certainly would never go out on a limb and say he's never produced a good print. I'm quite sure loads of people like his work, just not me.
and for the record,
Pandas Rock.....
8+)
It's up on the wall in my baby boy's nursery now.
You don't mean Ho F'ing Ho do you? Thats awful. Sorry thats a bit strong, what is becoming clear though GBH is we have very different tastes, you liked the Pandas Rock as well didn't you. To each there own HFH is one of my all time favourites. Everyone has different tastes. That's the beautiful thing. Just because you don't like GB, doesn't mean he is a shit artist or his work is crap. Because I like his work, doesn't mean he is Picasso either. I'm just not a fan of slagging off artists or their work because it's not to my taste. I'm not a fan of Micallef at all but I certainly would never go out on a limb and say he's never produced a good print. I'm quite sure loads of people like his work, just not me. and for the record, Pandas Rock..... 8+) It's up on the wall in my baby boy's nursery now. |
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fecam
New Member
๐จ๏ธ 352
๐๐ป 0
October 2006
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The Next Big Thing, by fecam on Feb 21, 2007 14:49:33 GMT 1, Art republic have just increased the price of the Dan Baldwin Politics print from ยฃ200 to ยฃ295 now that everywhere else is sold out!!
Art republic have just increased the price of the Dan Baldwin Politics print from ยฃ200 to ยฃ295 now that everywhere else is sold out!!
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The Next Big Thing, by mcnuts on Feb 21, 2007 14:55:20 GMT 1, Art republic have just increased the price of the Dan Baldwin Politics print from ยฃ200 to ยฃ295 now that everywhere else is sold out!!
I noticed that as well. very cheeky. What was it at before, ยฃ200? How long till it is on ebay do you reckon?
Art republic have just increased the price of the Dan Baldwin Politics print from ยฃ200 to ยฃ295 now that everywhere else is sold out!! I noticed that as well. very cheeky. What was it at before, ยฃ200? How long till it is on ebay do you reckon? |
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The Next Big Thing, by slowmo on Feb 21, 2007 15:06:40 GMT 1, You don't mean Ho F'ing Ho do you? Thats awful. Sorry thats a bit strong, what is becoming clear though GBH is we have very different tastes, you liked the Pandas Rock as well didn't you. To each there own HFH is one of my all time favourites. Everyone has different tastes. That's the beautiful thing. Just because you don't like GB, doesn't mean he is a s**t artist or his work is crap. Because I like his work, doesn't mean he is Picasso either. I'm just not a fan of slagging off artists or their work because it's not to my taste. I'm not a fan of Micallef at all but I certainly would never go out on a limb and say he's never produced a good print. I'm quite sure loads of people like his work, just not me. and for the record, Pandas Rock..... 8+) It's up on the wall in my baby boy's nursery now.
Fair dues GBH 
You don't mean Ho F'ing Ho do you? Thats awful. Sorry thats a bit strong, what is becoming clear though GBH is we have very different tastes, you liked the Pandas Rock as well didn't you. To each there own HFH is one of my all time favourites. Everyone has different tastes. That's the beautiful thing. Just because you don't like GB, doesn't mean he is a s**t artist or his work is crap. Because I like his work, doesn't mean he is Picasso either. I'm just not a fan of slagging off artists or their work because it's not to my taste. I'm not a fan of Micallef at all but I certainly would never go out on a limb and say he's never produced a good print. I'm quite sure loads of people like his work, just not me. and for the record, Pandas Rock..... 8+) It's up on the wall in my baby boy's nursery now. Fair dues GBH |
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stuey09
New Member
๐จ๏ธ 49
๐๐ป 1
August 2008
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The Next Big Thing, by stuey09 on Feb 21, 2007 15:06:47 GMT 1, Art republic have just increased the price of the Dan Baldwin Politics print from ยฃ200 to ยฃ295 now that everywhere else is sold out!!
Opus are still advertising it at ยฃ200 on their site.
Art republic have just increased the price of the Dan Baldwin Politics print from ยฃ200 to ยฃ295 now that everywhere else is sold out!! Opus are still advertising it at ยฃ200 on their site. |
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fecam
New Member
๐จ๏ธ 352
๐๐ป 0
October 2006
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The Next Big Thing, by fecam on Feb 21, 2007 15:36:49 GMT 1, Art republic have just increased the price of the Dan Baldwin Politics print from ยฃ200 to ยฃ295 now that everywhere else is sold out!! Opus are still advertising it at ยฃ200 on their site.
But no "add to cart button" - I reckon they have sold out as well (or are holding a couple back)
Art republic have just increased the price of the Dan Baldwin Politics print from ยฃ200 to ยฃ295 now that everywhere else is sold out!! Opus are still advertising it at ยฃ200 on their site. But no "add to cart button" - I reckon they have sold out as well (or are holding a couple back) |
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Just coz they have sold out dunt mean I should like them 
The reason for setting up the other forums such as Micallef, Nick Walker, D*Face, Dolk and Eelus was to give people the opportunity to keep the different subjects apart, but still making them a group of forums so people can still find out about the other artists easily ;D 
