|
|
Is street art getting too commercial?, by Oliver Winconek on May 28, 2008 22:29:05 GMT 1, I know this is going to split an awful lot of people but I am just interested in peoples feelings towards the movement.
Having been a member of the forum for a while now I have noticed there are just as many people who want a more commercial side to urban/street art as there are who think it should remain true to it's roots and stay on the street.
I am not against anyone making money from their art, far from it, I am just asking this in the wake of countless huge editions of the same prints being produced, Banksy's work appearing at Selfridges and the variable slump that appears in the market from time to time. I fully appreciate that there is often a huge demand for the more established artists latest works and that galleries are only supplying the demand, is this a good thing? Discuss.......
I know this is going to split an awful lot of people but I am just interested in peoples feelings towards the movement.
Having been a member of the forum for a while now I have noticed there are just as many people who want a more commercial side to urban/street art as there are who think it should remain true to it's roots and stay on the street.
I am not against anyone making money from their art, far from it, I am just asking this in the wake of countless huge editions of the same prints being produced, Banksy's work appearing at Selfridges and the variable slump that appears in the market from time to time. I fully appreciate that there is often a huge demand for the more established artists latest works and that galleries are only supplying the demand, is this a good thing? Discuss.......
|
|
|
|
Is street art getting too commercial?, by Oliver Garland on May 28, 2008 23:14:08 GMT 1, Why are you concerned with it getting commercial be more in the moment.
Why are you concerned with it getting commercial be more in the moment.
|
|
|
|
Is street art getting too commercial?, by Agent Provocateur on May 28, 2008 23:27:46 GMT 1, I think the important word you have in your qeustion is 'too'. Any art movement that starts undergound, questioning society, peoples acceptance of government, right and wrong and just plain sticking a finger up at people and organisations that tell us what to do has has the possibility of becoming accepted. This acceptance moves the initial undergound movement into an accepted and commercial form of the original.
Here it becomes tricky, artists by definition seek acceptance, fans and people that will buy their work. Street art started out as a way for people who felt the establishment was controlling them, not speaking for them but telling them what to do. But once these works of art and artists get media coverage and more people associate themselves with the message the movement is conveying it becomes popular.
With popularity, and I must add, the correct environment for the message to be accepted, the intial format of rebelling against the establishment starts to be accepted by the masses. This could be for various reasons. They haven't encountered it before but now because it is much more prevelant in the media they have seen it and like it. Some because of the art, some the message and some because they see there is money to be made.
Everyone doing something that has a message, and want to convey this message to a wider audience is asking for a rise in popularity. But this is where I get back to my original point of the word 'too' in your question. If street artists are still sticking by their original manifesto off speaking for people without a voice but getting much more attention you cannot call the way things are going 'too commercial', it is a natural progression of an undergound movement into a accepted and appreciated art form.
The crux comes, and I think this is what you are alluding to, when the artists move from their core values and get caught up in the massive amounts of money flooding into the market. Forgetting the original reason for their art and slowly slipping into the eastablished gallery big money art scene.
To finish my little thesis on the subject... remembering these are my own opinions (and rather 'half cut' ones at that!). I don't think the street art scene is becoming too commercial, I DO think it is becoming MORE commercial, but because of my reasons stated above this is inevitable. What must happen to make sure it doesn't become too commercial is the artists and galleries must understand why it is popular...
And that last question is a whole other p****d post, but now I must get another drink. Of course I will re-read this post later and wonder what I was babbling about ;D.
Good question Oliver  .
I think the important word you have in your qeustion is 'too'. Any art movement that starts undergound, questioning society, peoples acceptance of government, right and wrong and just plain sticking a finger up at people and organisations that tell us what to do has has the possibility of becoming accepted. This acceptance moves the initial undergound movement into an accepted and commercial form of the original. Here it becomes tricky, artists by definition seek acceptance, fans and people that will buy their work. Street art started out as a way for people who felt the establishment was controlling them, not speaking for them but telling them what to do. But once these works of art and artists get media coverage and more people associate themselves with the message the movement is conveying it becomes popular. With popularity, and I must add, the correct environment for the message to be accepted, the intial format of rebelling against the establishment starts to be accepted by the masses. This could be for various reasons. They haven't encountered it before but now because it is much more prevelant in the media they have seen it and like it. Some because of the art, some the message and some because they see there is money to be made. Everyone doing something that has a message, and want to convey this message to a wider audience is asking for a rise in popularity. But this is where I get back to my original point of the word 'too' in your question. If street artists are still sticking by their original manifesto off speaking for people without a voice but getting much more attention you cannot call the way things are going 'too commercial', it is a natural progression of an undergound movement into a accepted and appreciated art form. The crux comes, and I think this is what you are alluding to, when the artists move from their core values and get caught up in the massive amounts of money flooding into the market. Forgetting the original reason for their art and slowly slipping into the eastablished gallery big money art scene. To finish my little thesis on the subject... remembering these are my own opinions (and rather 'half cut' ones at that!). I don't think the street art scene is becoming too commercial, I DO think it is becoming MORE commercial, but because of my reasons stated above this is inevitable. What must happen to make sure it doesn't become too commercial is the artists and galleries must understand why it is popular... And that last question is a whole other p****d post, but now I must get another drink. Of course I will re-read this post later and wonder what I was babbling about ;D. Good question Oliver . |
|
Blind Angle
Art Gallery
New Member
Posts โข 399
Likes โข 0
July 2007
|
Is street art getting too commercial?, by Blind Angle on May 29, 2008 0:12:51 GMT 1, Very Well written response to a good question agentp.....don't worry about sobering up !-) I do agree you all the way and i do believe that artists and galleries alike constantly have to question what they do (show/sell) and why and not be dictated by the market......a rather obvious answer i guess !-)
cheers
Ragnar
Very Well written response to a good question agentp.....don't worry about sobering up !-) I do agree you all the way and i do believe that artists and galleries alike constantly have to question what they do (show/sell) and why and not be dictated by the market......a rather obvious answer i guess !-)
cheers
Ragnar
|
|
|
|
Is street art getting too commercial?, by Oliver Winconek on May 29, 2008 7:42:58 GMT 1, Why are you concerned with it getting commercial be more in the moment.
I didn't say I was concerned, I was just interested in a few peoples opinions, a degree of commercialism can only be a good thing, the poll centres around it becoming 'too' commercial. I.e ridiculously big print runs, merchandising and corporate sponsorship/commissions
Why are you concerned with it getting commercial be more in the moment. I didn't say I was concerned, I was just interested in a few peoples opinions, a degree of commercialism can only be a good thing, the poll centres around it becoming 'too' commercial. I.e ridiculously big print runs, merchandising and corporate sponsorship/commissions |
|
|
|
Is street art getting too commercial?, by Oliver Winconek on May 29, 2008 7:46:55 GMT 1, I think the important word you have in your qeustion is 'too'. Any art movement that starts undergound, questioning society, peoples acceptance of government, right and wrong and just plain sticking a finger up at people and organisations that tell us what to do has has the possibility of becoming accepted. This acceptance moves the initial undergound movement into an accepted and commercial form of the original. Here it becomes tricky, artists by definition seek acceptance, fans and people that will buy their work. Street art started out as a way for people who felt the establishment was controlling them, not speaking for them but telling them what to do. But once these works of art and artists get media coverage and more people associate themselves with the message the movement is conveying it becomes popular. With popularity, and I must add, the correct environment for the message to be accepted, the intial format of rebelling against the establishment starts to be accepted by the masses. This could be for various reasons. They haven't encountered it before but now because it is much more prevelant in the media they have seen it and like it. Some because of the art, some the message and some because they see there is money to be made. Everyone doing something that has a message, and want to convey this message to a wider audience is asking for a rise in popularity. But this is where I get back to my original point of the word 'too' in your question. If street artists are still sticking by their original manifesto off speaking for people without a voice but getting much more attention you cannot call the way things are going 'too commercial', it is a natural progression of an undergound movement into a accepted and appreciated art form. The crux comes, and I think this is what you are alluding to, when the artists move from their core values and get caught up in the massive amounts of money flooding into the market. Forgetting the original reason for their art and slowly slipping into the eastablished gallery big money art scene. To finish my little thesis on the subject... remembering these are my own opinions (and rather 'half cut' ones at that!). I don't think the street art scene is becoming too commercial, I DO think it is becoming MORE commercial, but because of my reasons stated above this is inevitable. What must happen to make sure it doesn't become too commercial is the artists and galleries must understand why it is popular... And that last question is a whole other p****d post, but now I must get another drink. Of course I will re-read this post later and wonder what I was babbling about ;D. Good question Oliver .
Thanks for the that AP, it seems we share very similar views, and i'm not even drunk, what does that tell you! On the whole I think a lot of the galleries and artists do have a conscience to stay true to their original beliefs but it must be so damn hard when the money and interest is there to turn it down by doing 'not for profit' street work
Oliver
I think the important word you have in your qeustion is 'too'. Any art movement that starts undergound, questioning society, peoples acceptance of government, right and wrong and just plain sticking a finger up at people and organisations that tell us what to do has has the possibility of becoming accepted. This acceptance moves the initial undergound movement into an accepted and commercial form of the original. Here it becomes tricky, artists by definition seek acceptance, fans and people that will buy their work. Street art started out as a way for people who felt the establishment was controlling them, not speaking for them but telling them what to do. But once these works of art and artists get media coverage and more people associate themselves with the message the movement is conveying it becomes popular. With popularity, and I must add, the correct environment for the message to be accepted, the intial format of rebelling against the establishment starts to be accepted by the masses. This could be for various reasons. They haven't encountered it before but now because it is much more prevelant in the media they have seen it and like it. Some because of the art, some the message and some because they see there is money to be made. Everyone doing something that has a message, and want to convey this message to a wider audience is asking for a rise in popularity. But this is where I get back to my original point of the word 'too' in your question. If street artists are still sticking by their original manifesto off speaking for people without a voice but getting much more attention you cannot call the way things are going 'too commercial', it is a natural progression of an undergound movement into a accepted and appreciated art form. The crux comes, and I think this is what you are alluding to, when the artists move from their core values and get caught up in the massive amounts of money flooding into the market. Forgetting the original reason for their art and slowly slipping into the eastablished gallery big money art scene. To finish my little thesis on the subject... remembering these are my own opinions (and rather 'half cut' ones at that!). I don't think the street art scene is becoming too commercial, I DO think it is becoming MORE commercial, but because of my reasons stated above this is inevitable. What must happen to make sure it doesn't become too commercial is the artists and galleries must understand why it is popular... And that last question is a whole other p****d post, but now I must get another drink. Of course I will re-read this post later and wonder what I was babbling about ;D. Good question Oliver . Thanks for the that AP, it seems we share very similar views, and i'm not even drunk, what does that tell you! On the whole I think a lot of the galleries and artists do have a conscience to stay true to their original beliefs but it must be so damn hard when the money and interest is there to turn it down by doing 'not for profit' street work Oliver |
|
|
|
|
|
Is street art getting too commercial?, by slowmo on May 29, 2008 8:48:35 GMT 1, Street art is as commercial as the artist wants it to be, take you Oliver, you produce art commercially, backed up with street work. Then take El Chivo (wherever and whoever they may be) the art was on the wall, you took a photo of it, that was the end of that.
Most artists want to do their art full time, so I understand the commercialism aspect of it, they have to pay the bills. Whether it is too commercial could only ever be the opinion of an individual, so there is no real debate that could be had as far as I can see?
Street art is as commercial as the artist wants it to be, take you Oliver, you produce art commercially, backed up with street work. Then take El Chivo (wherever and whoever they may be) the art was on the wall, you took a photo of it, that was the end of that.
Most artists want to do their art full time, so I understand the commercialism aspect of it, they have to pay the bills. Whether it is too commercial could only ever be the opinion of an individual, so there is no real debate that could be had as far as I can see?
|
|
|
|
Is street art getting too commercial?, by Oliver Winconek on May 29, 2008 8:55:19 GMT 1, Street art is as commercial as the artist wants it to be, take you Oliver, you produce art commercially, backed up with street work. Then take El Chivo (wherever and whoever they may be) the art was on the wall, you took a photo of it, that was the end of that. Most artists want to do their art full time, so I understand the commercialism aspect of it, they have to pay the bills. Whether it is too commercial could only ever be the opinion of an individual, so there is no real debate that could be had as far as I can see?
Good point well made, as much as I do feel that sometimes galleries will push to make prints, limited editions of work etc but as you state it's up to the individual artist to make that decision and see whats right for them. Believe me, I'm not against people making money from their art, without that we would all have to go and get 'proper' jobs!
Street art is as commercial as the artist wants it to be, take you Oliver, you produce art commercially, backed up with street work. Then take El Chivo (wherever and whoever they may be) the art was on the wall, you took a photo of it, that was the end of that. Most artists want to do their art full time, so I understand the commercialism aspect of it, they have to pay the bills. Whether it is too commercial could only ever be the opinion of an individual, so there is no real debate that could be had as far as I can see? Good point well made, as much as I do feel that sometimes galleries will push to make prints, limited editions of work etc but as you state it's up to the individual artist to make that decision and see whats right for them. Believe me, I'm not against people making money from their art, without that we would all have to go and get 'proper' jobs! |
|
|
|
Is street art getting too commercial?, by Daniel Silk on May 29, 2008 11:07:59 GMT 1, Street art is as commercial as the artist wants it to be, take you Oliver, you produce art commercially, backed up with street work. Then take El Chivo (wherever and whoever they may be) the art was on the wall, you took a photo of it, that was the end of that. Most artists want to do their art full time, so I understand the commercialism aspect of it, they have to pay the bills. Whether it is too commercial could only ever be the opinion of an individual, so there is no real debate that could be had as far as I can see?
Great post Slowmo ;D
Street art is as commercial as the artist wants it to be, take you Oliver, you produce art commercially, backed up with street work. Then take El Chivo (wherever and whoever they may be) the art was on the wall, you took a photo of it, that was the end of that. Most artists want to do their art full time, so I understand the commercialism aspect of it, they have to pay the bills. Whether it is too commercial could only ever be the opinion of an individual, so there is no real debate that could be had as far as I can see? Great post Slowmo ;D |
|
|
|
Is street art getting too commercial?, by Daniel Silk on May 29, 2008 11:16:40 GMT 1, As others were saying, most Artists would like to be able to do art full time rather than doing another job just to pay the bills of doing the stuff on the street. Even when they start to make serious money like Banksy, it dunt mean they have "sold out" coz it just free's them up even more to be able to afford to do stuff like the Santas Ghetto and Cans Festival, and travel worldwide to do work on the streets.
I know some people seem to want to hide the commercial side of things, but I just dont see the point of that  Artists need to make money, Galleries need to make money, some people flip art to make money, thats the truth of the scene so why censor it?
As others were saying, most Artists would like to be able to do art full time rather than doing another job just to pay the bills of doing the stuff on the street. Even when they start to make serious money like Banksy, it dunt mean they have "sold out" coz it just free's them up even more to be able to afford to do stuff like the Santas Ghetto and Cans Festival, and travel worldwide to do work on the streets. I know some people seem to want to hide the commercial side of things, but I just dont see the point of that Artists need to make money, Galleries need to make money, some people flip art to make money, thats the truth of the scene so why censor it? |
|
|
|
Is street art getting too commercial?, by mydeaddogwontwoof on May 29, 2008 12:03:18 GMT 1, I know some people seem to want to hide the commercial side of things, but I just dont see the point of that Artists need to make money, Galleries need to make money, some people flip art to make money, thats the truth of the scene so why censor it?
What do you mean?, this whole scene revolves around the pound, nothing to hide there!, I reckon, if you really thought about it, and you weren't in it soley for the love of "Urban art", I bet you too could make a few bob out of it Silky!, (it must be tempting!) 
I know some people seem to want to hide the commercial side of things, but I just dont see the point of that Artists need to make money, Galleries need to make money, some people flip art to make money, thats the truth of the scene so why censor it? What do you mean?, this whole scene revolves around the pound, nothing to hide there!, I reckon, if you really thought about it, and you weren't in it soley for the love of "Urban art", I bet you too could make a few bob out of it Silky!, (it must be tempting!) |
|
|
|
Is street art getting too commercial?, by pisspoorenglish on May 29, 2008 12:36:59 GMT 1, I think agentprovocateur put it better than I could! but basically i think with any subculture that has that initial sense of cool or feel of mystery about it, it's eventually gonna grow beyond itself. I think you can make a comparison with, say, Punk Music.
I think it's inevitable that it will mutate. And hopefully it will continue to do so in ways we don't imagine. Like a few of you I guess, I got interested in graffiti in the 80's. I was only a nipper, but my older brother got his hands on the Spraycan Art books and we both loved it. i remained mostly a voyeur.
But I still think I can say and agree with the proposition that anyone creating any kind of art form, is looking for some kind of acceptance or recognition. Maybe in different degrees. But basically, your looking for someone to say 'fuck, yeah, i agree with you' or 'fuck off , you're wrong'.
Becoming more 'commerical' i think in todays terms means that there's just a shit load more people aware of it. Maybe even interested in it. i think a singular person can become too influenced by commercial values or aspirations, but the art form or scene if you like, can mostly benefit from the increased exposure.
I think agentprovocateur put it better than I could! but basically i think with any subculture that has that initial sense of cool or feel of mystery about it, it's eventually gonna grow beyond itself. I think you can make a comparison with, say, Punk Music.
I think it's inevitable that it will mutate. And hopefully it will continue to do so in ways we don't imagine. Like a few of you I guess, I got interested in graffiti in the 80's. I was only a nipper, but my older brother got his hands on the Spraycan Art books and we both loved it. i remained mostly a voyeur.
But I still think I can say and agree with the proposition that anyone creating any kind of art form, is looking for some kind of acceptance or recognition. Maybe in different degrees. But basically, your looking for someone to say 'fuck, yeah, i agree with you' or 'fuck off , you're wrong'.
Becoming more 'commerical' i think in todays terms means that there's just a shit load more people aware of it. Maybe even interested in it. i think a singular person can become too influenced by commercial values or aspirations, but the art form or scene if you like, can mostly benefit from the increased exposure.
|
|
|
|
Is street art getting too commercial?, by thebleedingedge on May 29, 2008 17:21:34 GMT 1, Just look back at any subculture and watch the pattern, how the little dirty people find an incredible outlet that comes from a need for expression and how it gets appropriated, co-opted and rebranded. That is the struggle. Skateboarding was massively popular during the zephyr movement, but it was because it has been bought up by the masses and was turned into figure skating in the sun, but because you had that struggle you had the formation of something new and different, that something new was enough to keep skating alive for another 30 years but more importantly, those are the only times when you get significant progression, neccessity is the mother of all invention after all.
I think without that struggle it will become stagnent and die.
yes but acceptance and recognition from who
Just look back at any subculture and watch the pattern, how the little dirty people find an incredible outlet that comes from a need for expression and how it gets appropriated, co-opted and rebranded. That is the struggle. Skateboarding was massively popular during the zephyr movement, but it was because it has been bought up by the masses and was turned into figure skating in the sun, but because you had that struggle you had the formation of something new and different, that something new was enough to keep skating alive for another 30 years but more importantly, those are the only times when you get significant progression, neccessity is the mother of all invention after all.
I think without that struggle it will become stagnent and die.
yes but acceptance and recognition from who
|
|
mcster
New Member
Posts โข 367
Likes โข 0
October 2007
|
Is street art getting too commercial?, by mcster on May 29, 2008 17:43:17 GMT 1, I've just voted 'no' on this. If the increase in profile means that the up and coming street artists think further than writing their names in an ape of 80's New York lettering (that was great in its day I hasten to add) and start creating something more original, then there is a very bright future for the scene. Anything that becomes popular doesn't always have to lose its edge. IMO Banksy's work is still as powerful as it was when I first saw it, but it's just not a surprise any more. I expect to see good street work. If we are talking from the collecting angle, then maybe. I've been collecting since 2003 and gone are the days of strolling into POW and flicking through the Banksy prints. Too many people have bought in now, riding the scene for a quick few quid in their pensions. Or so they hope. thebleedingedge made a good comparison with skateboarding, maybe we need the craze to die in order for the scene to thrive?
I've just voted 'no' on this. If the increase in profile means that the up and coming street artists think further than writing their names in an ape of 80's New York lettering (that was great in its day I hasten to add) and start creating something more original, then there is a very bright future for the scene. Anything that becomes popular doesn't always have to lose its edge. IMO Banksy's work is still as powerful as it was when I first saw it, but it's just not a surprise any more. I expect to see good street work. If we are talking from the collecting angle, then maybe. I've been collecting since 2003 and gone are the days of strolling into POW and flicking through the Banksy prints. Too many people have bought in now, riding the scene for a quick few quid in their pensions. Or so they hope. thebleedingedge made a good comparison with skateboarding, maybe we need the craze to die in order for the scene to thrive?
|
|
|
|
roc99
New Member
Posts โข 6
Likes โข 0
April 2008
|
Is street art getting too commercial?, by roc99 on May 29, 2008 19:26:56 GMT 1, I voted 'yes' but its probably only 51%. Honestly, without the commericialization of street art, I may have never been introduced to it. I live in a relatively small, conservative city in the southern US and street art is non-existent. For this reason, I suppose its slightly hypocrital of me to say that street art is commercialized. However, the extent to which street art has transformed from a form of anti-establishment expression into a capitalistic venture has been swift. Then again, maybe I'm just mad I can't afford 90% of the art I want.
I voted 'yes' but its probably only 51%. Honestly, without the commericialization of street art, I may have never been introduced to it. I live in a relatively small, conservative city in the southern US and street art is non-existent. For this reason, I suppose its slightly hypocrital of me to say that street art is commercialized. However, the extent to which street art has transformed from a form of anti-establishment expression into a capitalistic venture has been swift. Then again, maybe I'm just mad I can't afford 90% of the art I want.
|
|
1800garrett
New Member
Posts โข 721
Likes โข 6
September 2007
|
Is street art getting too commercial?, by 1800garrett on Jun 10, 2008 20:33:01 GMT 1, I voted no. The art itself is not getting played out.... What is getting annoying is when a artist does something on the street on a big concrete wall and then the next day before anyone has had a chance to look at it, it's already up on ebay. I think that what artist do on the street should be left for the public.....
Other than that issue I love how the internet is allowing an artists to do a piece in one place and people on the other side of the planet to blog and post about it the very same day....
I voted no. The art itself is not getting played out.... What is getting annoying is when a artist does something on the street on a big concrete wall and then the next day before anyone has had a chance to look at it, it's already up on ebay. I think that what artist do on the street should be left for the public.....
Other than that issue I love how the internet is allowing an artists to do a piece in one place and people on the other side of the planet to blog and post about it the very same day....
|
|
gerry
New Member
Posts โข 303
Likes โข 0
October 2007
|
Is street art getting too commercial?, by gerry on Jun 10, 2008 21:11:11 GMT 1, Yeah, i guess the bigger surprise should be that it now 'is' commercial at all, even going back only 10 years or so at most!
So, for some it will have been too commercial for far longer than others, and personally i'm looking forward to it getting too commercial and imploding in on itself, cos that's when we'll all get to see the new fresh genuinely new stuff that will be sucked in to fill the vacuum in the street art space (as in the space on the actual streets, not the galleries).
It'll probably be going on now, so looking for it already. Certainly i'm finding some of the unknown street artists round bristol more exciting than some of the other big names nationally right now.
Yeah, i guess the bigger surprise should be that it now 'is' commercial at all, even going back only 10 years or so at most!
So, for some it will have been too commercial for far longer than others, and personally i'm looking forward to it getting too commercial and imploding in on itself, cos that's when we'll all get to see the new fresh genuinely new stuff that will be sucked in to fill the vacuum in the street art space (as in the space on the actual streets, not the galleries).
It'll probably be going on now, so looking for it already. Certainly i'm finding some of the unknown street artists round bristol more exciting than some of the other big names nationally right now.
|
|
.
Artists need to make money, Galleries need to make money, some people flip art to make money, thats the truth of the scene so why censor it?
