lv90210
Junior Member
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January 2018
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Banksy • Tesco Petrol Bomb Poster, by lv90210 on Dec 1, 2020 7:26:46 GMT 1, Is this just concerning Petrol Bomb Posters or are there other works in question ?
Is this just concerning Petrol Bomb Posters or are there other works in question ?
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Deleted
🗨️ 0
👍🏻
January 1970
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Banksy • Tesco Petrol Bomb Poster, by Deleted on Dec 1, 2020 7:51:54 GMT 1, Is this just concerning Petrol Bomb Posters or are there other works in question ?
There's been no suggestion of any other works being in question, but the usual forum dramatics have bubbled up.
As ever, those not remotely affected are the most worked up.
Is this just concerning Petrol Bomb Posters or are there other works in question ? There's been no suggestion of any other works being in question, but the usual forum dramatics have bubbled up. As ever, those not remotely affected are the most worked up. |
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Matt
Junior Member
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September 2014
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Banksy • Tesco Petrol Bomb Poster, by Matt on Dec 1, 2020 8:40:11 GMT 1, Today we began contacting all buyers of Petrol Bomb Posters that have been purchased Via Tate Ward to offer an inspection against a reference copy to confirm weather genuine or fake then issue a full refund as requested by the client. We will pay refunds immediately and take up the matter with the consigners separately. On behalf of myself and the team I want to apologise wholeheartedly for this situation. Our reputation is of the upmost importance to us and anything that diminishes it or brings into question our expertise and knowledge is something we take very seriously. Problems are going to occur whilst running a business, for me how they are addressed is the true measure of those involved. On a personal note, Nick has been my business partner for 3 years and during that time he has always acted with the highest levels of integrity. I know any poster he has sold privately will be refunded if found to be fake or at the buyers request. I do not believe for one moment he had any prior knowledge that the posters were not genuine. The poster in our current sale comes with email provenance from Jo Brooks I’m 100% sure it’s genuine and inspection is welcome in person at any point prior to the sale on 9th December. The dedication has been changed on the 10 x Di faced tenners and book it’s actually dedicated from “Team Laz” not Steve Lazarides’s himself. The notes have been checked under a x10 loop and are genuine. Again inspection is welcome anytime pre sale.
Cute. Another nice story
So the official answer is that this is widespread incompetence from the whole Tate Ward team ?
It took me 2 minutes to realise that my poster looked nothing like an original, and this isn’t my day job.
Yet we should believe
- it took years for Nick to realize that his hundreds of posters were fake
- no one at Tate Ward was any wiser at any moment
- despite many (including me) asking questions it never occurred to you to look closer until it blew up here
Today we began contacting all buyers of Petrol Bomb Posters that have been purchased Via Tate Ward to offer an inspection against a reference copy to confirm weather genuine or fake then issue a full refund as requested by the client. We will pay refunds immediately and take up the matter with the consigners separately. On behalf of myself and the team I want to apologise wholeheartedly for this situation. Our reputation is of the upmost importance to us and anything that diminishes it or brings into question our expertise and knowledge is something we take very seriously. Problems are going to occur whilst running a business, for me how they are addressed is the true measure of those involved. On a personal note, Nick has been my business partner for 3 years and during that time he has always acted with the highest levels of integrity. I know any poster he has sold privately will be refunded if found to be fake or at the buyers request. I do not believe for one moment he had any prior knowledge that the posters were not genuine. The poster in our current sale comes with email provenance from Jo Brooks I’m 100% sure it’s genuine and inspection is welcome in person at any point prior to the sale on 9th December. The dedication has been changed on the 10 x Di faced tenners and book it’s actually dedicated from “Team Laz” not Steve Lazarides’s himself. The notes have been checked under a x10 loop and are genuine. Again inspection is welcome anytime pre sale. Cute. Another nice story So the official answer is that this is widespread incompetence from the whole Tate Ward team ? It took me 2 minutes to realise that my poster looked nothing like an original, and this isn’t my day job. Yet we should believe - it took years for Nick to realize that his hundreds of posters were fake - no one at Tate Ward was any wiser at any moment - despite many (including me) asking questions it never occurred to you to look closer until it blew up here |
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Banksy • Tesco Petrol Bomb Poster, by Lroy on Dec 1, 2020 8:44:50 GMT 1, Is this just concerning Petrol Bomb Posters or are there other works in question ? There's been no suggestion of any other works being in question, but the usual forum dramatics have bubbled up. As ever, those not remotely affected are the most worked up.
“ There was no suggestion that other works were in question, but the usual forum drama boiled down "
This is no small feat! And that is not just about aggrieved buyers, forum members and collectors, but the people themselves. Without adding fuel to the fire, this is the first time I've heard that a reputable gallery and auction site can sell fakes ! Now I would know, thanks to the poster! thanks to him. A lot.
It would be a member of the forum, an ebayer, or a creepy gallery, no one would have given him flowers ...
Of course, for some here, it does not represent much but for others? and who knows! ...
“ As always, those who are not touched from a distance are the most agitated "
This is the purpose of an open forum, this is not a circle of insiders.
Is this just concerning Petrol Bomb Posters or are there other works in question ? There's been no suggestion of any other works being in question, but the usual forum dramatics have bubbled up. As ever, those not remotely affected are the most worked up. “ There was no suggestion that other works were in question, but the usual forum drama boiled down " This is no small feat! And that is not just about aggrieved buyers, forum members and collectors, but the people themselves. Without adding fuel to the fire, this is the first time I've heard that a reputable gallery and auction site can sell fakes ! Now I would know, thanks to the poster! thanks to him. A lot. It would be a member of the forum, an ebayer, or a creepy gallery, no one would have given him flowers ... Of course, for some here, it does not represent much but for others? and who knows! ... “ As always, those who are not touched from a distance are the most agitated " This is the purpose of an open forum, this is not a circle of insiders. |
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Rubberneck
Junior Member
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October 2018
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Banksy • Tesco Petrol Bomb Poster, by Rubberneck on Dec 1, 2020 9:12:38 GMT 1, Is this just concerning Petrol Bomb Posters or are there other works in question ?
Is this just concerning Petrol Bomb Posters or are there other works in question ? That’s my main concern.. all ephemera is now suspect, anything outside of an edition and worst case scenario Is prints without CoA such as GDP |
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lv90210
Junior Member
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January 2018
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Banksy • Tesco Petrol Bomb Poster, by lv90210 on Dec 1, 2020 9:14:43 GMT 1, Is this just concerning Petrol Bomb Posters or are there other works in question ? That’s my main concern.. all ephemera is of concern, anything outside of an edition and worst case scenario Is prints without CoA such as GDP
Feel sorry for the buyers here.
Is this just concerning Petrol Bomb Posters or are there other works in question ? That’s my main concern.. all ephemera is of concern, anything outside of an edition and worst case scenario Is prints without CoA such as GDP What would be the best way to monitor previous sales ? Feel sorry for the buyers here. |
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Rubberneck
Junior Member
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October 2018
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Banksy • Tesco Petrol Bomb Poster, by Rubberneck on Dec 1, 2020 9:28:12 GMT 1, I think they should definitely be offering their due diligence on other items which buyers can query in the light of this thread.
Tat Fraud is essentially their new name however it’s great that they are being proactive to contacting auction buyers of these, definitely the correct thing to be done.
They should be taking action against whomever has consigned these posters? Will they be pressing charges? What else have they put through the auction house?
If multiple consigners then at least explain the history of how these posters came to be sold multiple times through gallery’s, private sales, agents and the auction house itself over three years in more detail.
If not it’s not much of a leap to think this goes much further into all ephemera, prints etc...
I think they should definitely be offering their due diligence on other items which buyers can query in the light of this thread.
Tat Fraud is essentially their new name however it’s great that they are being proactive to contacting auction buyers of these, definitely the correct thing to be done.
They should be taking action against whomever has consigned these posters? Will they be pressing charges? What else have they put through the auction house?
If multiple consigners then at least explain the history of how these posters came to be sold multiple times through gallery’s, private sales, agents and the auction house itself over three years in more detail.
If not it’s not much of a leap to think this goes much further into all ephemera, prints etc...
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jamieb
New Member
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December 2007
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Banksy • Tesco Petrol Bomb Poster, by jamieb on Dec 1, 2020 10:24:11 GMT 1, Do galleries / Auction houses not have to be identified on the forum?
I know artist do and are in red.
I had no idea that daniel3886 is Tateward
And Rubberneck - "Tat Fraud" is genius 
I explained to Nick about using a loop to inspect the posters (my pictures of the dots are taken through one) and what to look for on Di-Faced tenner across Dianas eye and the number of rosettes. He had never heard of a loop 2 months ago. Maybe now Tateward have invested in one.
On the upside at least it's all being finally addressed and if taken at their "word" that this is all an accident and down to a lack due diligence then it won't be happening going forward.
Would still be nice to see them destroyed rather than still in circulation.
If you try and bank a counterfeit note at a bank they don't give it back to to try and use somewhere else?
I do wonder if calling them "fake" is actually dismissing how serious it actually is. Really they are counterfeit and a lot more lucrative than counterfeit money as they are easier to produce and considerably more valuable.
Finally, I am not saying that this is a unique issue to Nick / Tateward, it's just the only place I have had first hand experience from, I do think it's a more widespread issue.
Do galleries / Auction houses not have to be identified on the forum? I know artist do and are in red. I had no idea that daniel3886 is Tateward And Rubberneck - "Tat Fraud" is genius I explained to Nick about using a loop to inspect the posters (my pictures of the dots are taken through one) and what to look for on Di-Faced tenner across Dianas eye and the number of rosettes. He had never heard of a loop 2 months ago. Maybe now Tateward have invested in one. On the upside at least it's all being finally addressed and if taken at their "word" that this is all an accident and down to a lack due diligence then it won't be happening going forward. Would still be nice to see them destroyed rather than still in circulation. If you try and bank a counterfeit note at a bank they don't give it back to to try and use somewhere else? I do wonder if calling them "fake" is actually dismissing how serious it actually is. Really they are counterfeit and a lot more lucrative than counterfeit money as they are easier to produce and considerably more valuable. Finally, I am not saying that this is a unique issue to Nick / Tateward, it's just the only place I have had first hand experience from, I do think it's a more widespread issue. |
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Lazarus II
Junior Member
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August 2019
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Banksy • Tesco Petrol Bomb Poster, by Lazarus II on Dec 1, 2020 10:56:12 GMT 1, Do galleries / Auction houses not have to be identified on the forum? I know artist do and are in red. I had no idea that daniel3886 is Tateward And Rubberneck - "Tat Fraud" is genius I explained to Nick about using a loop to inspect the posters (my pictures of the dots are taken through one) and what to look for on Di-Faced tenner across Dianas eye and the number of rosettes. He had never heard of a loop 2 months ago. Maybe now Tateward have invested in one. On the upside at least it's all being finally addressed and if taken at their "word" that this is all an accident and down to a lack due diligence then it won't be happening going forward. Would still be nice to see them destroyed rather than still in circulation. If you try and bank a counterfeit note at a bank they don't give it back to to try and use somewhere else? I do wonder if calling them "fake" is actually dismissing how serious it actually is. Really they are counterfeit and a lot more lucrative than counterfeit money as they are easier to produce and considerably more valuable. Finally, I am not saying that this is a unique issue to Nick / Tateward, it's just the only place I have had first hand experience from, I do think it's a more widespread issue.
galleries should be identified as such but for whatever reasons the owners / employees / consultants can still post as users like me and thee.
A few years back i sold an invader to a forum user who turned out to be the owner of Dope Gallery, i only established this after agreeing a sale. I said that he should contact Daniel Silk to get a gallery identification and he said Dope already had one but he was posting as himself so he didnt need one. There was only one dope in that conversation and it wasnt him 😊
Daniel3886 does post regularly on Tate Ward threads / issues and is always up front on that matter.
Do galleries / Auction houses not have to be identified on the forum? I know artist do and are in red. I had no idea that daniel3886 is Tateward And Rubberneck - "Tat Fraud" is genius I explained to Nick about using a loop to inspect the posters (my pictures of the dots are taken through one) and what to look for on Di-Faced tenner across Dianas eye and the number of rosettes. He had never heard of a loop 2 months ago. Maybe now Tateward have invested in one. On the upside at least it's all being finally addressed and if taken at their "word" that this is all an accident and down to a lack due diligence then it won't be happening going forward. Would still be nice to see them destroyed rather than still in circulation. If you try and bank a counterfeit note at a bank they don't give it back to to try and use somewhere else? I do wonder if calling them "fake" is actually dismissing how serious it actually is. Really they are counterfeit and a lot more lucrative than counterfeit money as they are easier to produce and considerably more valuable. Finally, I am not saying that this is a unique issue to Nick / Tateward, it's just the only place I have had first hand experience from, I do think it's a more widespread issue. galleries should be identified as such but for whatever reasons the owners / employees / consultants can still post as users like me and thee. A few years back i sold an invader to a forum user who turned out to be the owner of Dope Gallery, i only established this after agreeing a sale. I said that he should contact Daniel Silk to get a gallery identification and he said Dope already had one but he was posting as himself so he didnt need one. There was only one dope in that conversation and it wasnt him 😊 Daniel3886 does post regularly on Tate Ward threads / issues and is always up front on that matter. |
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medichead
New Member
🗨️ 575
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January 2017
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Banksy • Tesco Petrol Bomb Poster, by medichead on Dec 1, 2020 11:46:37 GMT 1, Is this just concerning Petrol Bomb Posters or are there other works in question ? There's been no suggestion of any other works being in question, but the usual forum dramatics have bubbled up. As ever, those not remotely affected are the most worked up.
We have a business partner of an auction house owner who may have been selling - over a period of years - countless counterfeit copies of Banksy ephemera at great profit. How is it possible he would not question the source of these pieces? Is this malice or wilful ignorance? I am struggling to believe it is plain old incompetence, but that is what those claiming 'forum dramatics' would have you believe.
It is also worth remembering that some of those awaiting a refund may say or do things to guarantee their refund actually materialises. As such, those of us not remotely affected are able to speak without bias and therefore should do so.
Is this just concerning Petrol Bomb Posters or are there other works in question ? There's been no suggestion of any other works being in question, but the usual forum dramatics have bubbled up. As ever, those not remotely affected are the most worked up. This is one of those times that forum dramatics are actually called for - you should recognise it as such. We have a business partner of an auction house owner who may have been selling - over a period of years - countless counterfeit copies of Banksy ephemera at great profit. How is it possible he would not question the source of these pieces? Is this malice or wilful ignorance? I am struggling to believe it is plain old incompetence, but that is what those claiming 'forum dramatics' would have you believe. It is also worth remembering that some of those awaiting a refund may say or do things to guarantee their refund actually materialises. As such, those of us not remotely affected are able to speak without bias and therefore should do so. |
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Deleted
🗨️ 0
👍🏻
January 1970
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Banksy • Tesco Petrol Bomb Poster, by Deleted on Dec 1, 2020 12:20:02 GMT 1, There's been no suggestion of any other works being in question, but the usual forum dramatics have bubbled up. As ever, those not remotely affected are the most worked up. This is one of those times that forum dramatics are actually called for - you should recognise it as such. We have a business partner of an auction house owner selling - over a period of years - countless counterfeit copies of Banksy ephemera at great profit. How is it possible he would not question the source of these pieces? Is this malice or wilful ignorance? I am struggling to believe it is plain old incompetence, but that is what those claiming 'forum dramatics' would have you believe. It is also worth remembering that some of those awaiting a refund may say or do things to guarantee their refund actually materialises. As such, those of us not remotely affected are able to speak without bias and therefore should do so.
The term forum dramatics was in reference to the people who have gone full conspiracy theory, linking every fake Petrol Bomb they can find on the internet back to Tate Ward. Or stacking up unevidenced 'what if?' theories. I don't see the aim of it, beyond enjoying the drama.
It's not useful to anyone to chuck around theories. It's certainly not useful to those looking for refunds. The more unfounded accusations made, the more confusing things become. Lots of libellous statements on here make a quick resolution for everyone less likely. Your post above contains at least one instance of libel, by the way.
Jamie's clear, factual posts were incredibly useful. They helped me, and others mis-sold this piece, to get refunds. The rest, based on people's guesswork, adds very little.
Obviously something weird has happened, either deliberately or unwittingly. Anyone who bought a fake would be fully within their rights to initiate legal action. I won't, because I don't see a worthwhile result coming from that. But if there were legal action brought, nothing posted in this thread in the past five pages would help it.
There's been no suggestion of any other works being in question, but the usual forum dramatics have bubbled up. As ever, those not remotely affected are the most worked up. This is one of those times that forum dramatics are actually called for - you should recognise it as such. We have a business partner of an auction house owner selling - over a period of years - countless counterfeit copies of Banksy ephemera at great profit. How is it possible he would not question the source of these pieces? Is this malice or wilful ignorance? I am struggling to believe it is plain old incompetence, but that is what those claiming 'forum dramatics' would have you believe. It is also worth remembering that some of those awaiting a refund may say or do things to guarantee their refund actually materialises. As such, those of us not remotely affected are able to speak without bias and therefore should do so. The term forum dramatics was in reference to the people who have gone full conspiracy theory, linking every fake Petrol Bomb they can find on the internet back to Tate Ward. Or stacking up unevidenced 'what if?' theories. I don't see the aim of it, beyond enjoying the drama. It's not useful to anyone to chuck around theories. It's certainly not useful to those looking for refunds. The more unfounded accusations made, the more confusing things become. Lots of libellous statements on here make a quick resolution for everyone less likely. Your post above contains at least one instance of libel, by the way. Jamie's clear, factual posts were incredibly useful. They helped me, and others mis-sold this piece, to get refunds. The rest, based on people's guesswork, adds very little. Obviously something weird has happened, either deliberately or unwittingly. Anyone who bought a fake would be fully within their rights to initiate legal action. I won't, because I don't see a worthwhile result coming from that. But if there were legal action brought, nothing posted in this thread in the past five pages would help it. |
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daniel3886
Junior Member
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October 2006
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Banksy • Tesco Petrol Bomb Poster, by daniel3886 on Dec 1, 2020 12:40:45 GMT 1, We have always and will continue to offer a 100% money back authenticity guarantee on all works we sell. This is the first time
we’ve needed to show that we will honour that promise but we welcome the opportunity.
Buyers are encouraged to satisfy themselves on the provenance and authenticity of any work they are considering bidding on.
I’ve never made any secret of my involvement in Tate Ward but for the sake of transparency I have added my position to the signature on my profile.
(After checking I already had that on my signature but it’s only viewable on the desktop version)
We have always and will continue to offer a 100% money back authenticity guarantee on all works we sell. This is the first time
we’ve needed to show that we will honour that promise but we welcome the opportunity.
Buyers are encouraged to satisfy themselves on the provenance and authenticity of any work they are considering bidding on.
I’ve never made any secret of my involvement in Tate Ward but for the sake of transparency I have added my position to the signature on my profile.
(After checking I already had that on my signature but it’s only viewable on the desktop version)
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jamieb
New Member
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December 2007
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Banksy • Tesco Petrol Bomb Poster, by jamieb on Dec 1, 2020 12:48:53 GMT 1, Buyers are encouraged to satisfy themselves on the provenance and authenticity of any work they are considering bidding on.
So the onus is on the buyer to check if a piece in an auction is real before bidding, not the auction house to make sure it's real before selling?
Seems a bit backward
Buyers are encouraged to satisfy themselves on the provenance and authenticity of any work they are considering bidding on. So the onus is on the buyer to check if a piece in an auction is real before bidding, not the auction house to make sure it's real before selling? Seems a bit backward |
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medichead
New Member
🗨️ 575
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January 2017
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Banksy • Tesco Petrol Bomb Poster, by medichead on Dec 1, 2020 12:49:01 GMT 1, This is one of those times that forum dramatics are actually called for - you should recognise it as such. We have a business partner of an auction house owner selling - over a period of years - countless counterfeit copies of Banksy ephemera at great profit. How is it possible he would not question the source of these pieces? Is this malice or wilful ignorance? I am struggling to believe it is plain old incompetence, but that is what those claiming 'forum dramatics' would have you believe. It is also worth remembering that some of those awaiting a refund may say or do things to guarantee their refund actually materialises. As such, those of us not remotely affected are able to speak without bias and therefore should do so. The term forum dramatics was in reference to the people who have gone full conspiracy theory, linking every fake Petrol Bomb they can find on the internet back to Tate Ward. Or stacking up unevidenced 'what if?' theories. I don't see the aim of it, beyond enjoying the drama. It's not useful to anyone to chuck around theories. It's certainly not useful to those looking for refunds. The more unfounded accusations made, the more confusing things become. Lots of libellous statements on here make a quick resolution for everyone less likely. Your post above contains at least one instance of libel, by the way. Jamie's clear, factual posts were incredibly useful. They helped me, and others mis-sold this piece, to get refunds. The rest, based on people's guesswork, adds very little. Obviously something weird has happened, either deliberately or unwittingly. Anyone who bought a fake would be fully within their rights to initiate legal action. I won't, because I don't see a worthwhile result coming from that. But if there were legal action brought, nothing posted in this thread in the past five pages would help it.
This is one of those times that forum dramatics are actually called for - you should recognise it as such. We have a business partner of an auction house owner selling - over a period of years - countless counterfeit copies of Banksy ephemera at great profit. How is it possible he would not question the source of these pieces? Is this malice or wilful ignorance? I am struggling to believe it is plain old incompetence, but that is what those claiming 'forum dramatics' would have you believe. It is also worth remembering that some of those awaiting a refund may say or do things to guarantee their refund actually materialises. As such, those of us not remotely affected are able to speak without bias and therefore should do so. The term forum dramatics was in reference to the people who have gone full conspiracy theory, linking every fake Petrol Bomb they can find on the internet back to Tate Ward. Or stacking up unevidenced 'what if?' theories. I don't see the aim of it, beyond enjoying the drama. It's not useful to anyone to chuck around theories. It's certainly not useful to those looking for refunds. The more unfounded accusations made, the more confusing things become. Lots of libellous statements on here make a quick resolution for everyone less likely. Your post above contains at least one instance of libel, by the way. Jamie's clear, factual posts were incredibly useful. They helped me, and others mis-sold this piece, to get refunds. The rest, based on people's guesswork, adds very little. Obviously something weird has happened, either deliberately or unwittingly. Anyone who bought a fake would be fully within their rights to initiate legal action. I won't, because I don't see a worthwhile result coming from that. But if there were legal action brought, nothing posted in this thread in the past five pages would help it. Very interested to know which word/phrase is libellous, happy to change if that's appropriate. |
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Banksy • Tesco Petrol Bomb Poster, by Lroy on Dec 1, 2020 12:51:57 GMT 1, Is this just concerning Petrol Bomb Posters or are there other works in question ? That’s my main concern.. all ephemera is now suspect, anything outside of an edition and worst case scenario Is prints without CoA such as GDP yeps, tha's why I refuse totally any *rats etc from GDP ! No want to feed the pidgeons. They even made fake of Stik poster lol... BUt GDP, I would not trust anyone, apart one !
edit : the *free prints, you see... Will they make fake WOH dioramas ? who knows ... a bit more difficult it seems...
Is this just concerning Petrol Bomb Posters or are there other works in question ? That’s my main concern.. all ephemera is now suspect, anything outside of an edition and worst case scenario Is prints without CoA such as GDP yeps, tha's why I refuse totally any *rats etc from GDP ! No want to feed the pidgeons. They even made fake of Stik poster lol... BUt GDP, I would not trust anyone, apart one !
edit : the *free prints, you see... Will they make fake WOH dioramas ? who knows ... a bit more difficult it seems...
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daniel3886
Junior Member
🗨️ 1,250
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October 2006
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Banksy • Tesco Petrol Bomb Poster, by daniel3886 on Dec 1, 2020 12:59:33 GMT 1, Buyers are encouraged to satisfy themselves on the provenance and authenticity of any work they are considering bidding on. So the onus is on the buyer to check if a piece in an auction is real before bidding, not the auction house to make sure it's real before selling? Seems a bit backward
As an auction house we do the upmost to present work that we believe to be authentic. Further to protect our buyers we offer a money back guarantee. The ultimate decision on weather to bid or not on a work rests with the buyer. We always welcome open and transparent conversations about the provenance for works we sell.
Clearly we have failed in this case and that is something that I feel hugely disappointed from a professional point of view. It does not mean we are incapable of spotting anything fake moving forward. But I understand the need to rebuild trust with our customers is important and something we will put at the front of our priorities.
Buyers are encouraged to satisfy themselves on the provenance and authenticity of any work they are considering bidding on. So the onus is on the buyer to check if a piece in an auction is real before bidding, not the auction house to make sure it's real before selling? Seems a bit backward As an auction house we do the upmost to present work that we believe to be authentic. Further to protect our buyers we offer a money back guarantee. The ultimate decision on weather to bid or not on a work rests with the buyer. We always welcome open and transparent conversations about the provenance for works we sell. Clearly we have failed in this case and that is something that I feel hugely disappointed from a professional point of view. It does not mean we are incapable of spotting anything fake moving forward. But I understand the need to rebuild trust with our customers is important and something we will put at the front of our priorities. |
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jamieb
New Member
🗨️ 673
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December 2007
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Banksy • Tesco Petrol Bomb Poster, by jamieb on Dec 1, 2020 13:56:25 GMT 1, As an auction house we do the upmost to present work that we believe to be authentic. Further to protect our buyers we offer a money back guarantee. The ultimate decision on weather to bid or not on a work rests with the buyer. We always welcome open and transparent conversations about the provenance for works we sell. Clearly we have failed in this case and that is something that I feel hugely disappointed from a professional point of view. It does not mean we are incapable of spotting anything fake moving forward. But I understand the need to rebuild trust with our customers is important and something we will put at the front of our priorities. This is a much better response than your partner getting aggressive and baselessly threatening to sue everyone. Kudos and best of luck in the future. The change of tone is encouraging.
I agree, maybe we should have spoken at the time to voice my concerns regarding authenticity rather than the conversations I did have.
As an auction house we do the upmost to present work that we believe to be authentic. Further to protect our buyers we offer a money back guarantee. The ultimate decision on weather to bid or not on a work rests with the buyer. We always welcome open and transparent conversations about the provenance for works we sell. Clearly we have failed in this case and that is something that I feel hugely disappointed from a professional point of view. It does not mean we are incapable of spotting anything fake moving forward. But I understand the need to rebuild trust with our customers is important and something we will put at the front of our priorities. This is a much better response than your partner getting aggressive and baselessly threatening to sue everyone. Kudos and best of luck in the future. The change of tone is encouraging. I agree, maybe we should have spoken at the time to voice my concerns regarding authenticity rather than the conversations I did have. |
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tab1
Full Member
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September 2011
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Banksy • Tesco Petrol Bomb Poster, by tab1 on Dec 1, 2020 14:15:46 GMT 1, The term forum dramatics was in reference to the people who have gone full conspiracy theory, linking every fake Petrol Bomb they can find on the internet back to Tate Ward. Or stacking up unevidenced 'what if?' theories. I don't see the aim of it, beyond enjoying the drama. It's not useful to anyone to chuck around theories. It's certainly not useful to those looking for refunds. The more unfounded accusations made, the more confusing things become. Lots of libellous statements on here make a quick resolution for everyone less likely. Your post above contains at least one instance of libel, by the way. Jamie's clear, factual posts were incredibly useful. They helped me, and others mis-sold this piece, to get refunds. The rest, based on people's guesswork, adds very little. Obviously something weird has happened, either deliberately or unwittingly. Anyone who bought a fake would be fully within their rights to initiate legal action. I won't, because I don't see a worthwhile result coming from that. But if there were legal action brought, nothing posted in this thread in the past five pages would help it. Its not worthwhile investigating as you have been refunded ? What about all the members of the public that have purchased and are not aware of this thread? An investigation will lead to full transparency and ends the conspiracy theories you mention and rumours which annoy you www.met.police.uk/ro/report/fo/fraud/These have been soLd over years and could run into hundreds of thousands in profits , An investigation would clear the auction house by their accounts and lead to the source that may have used many other channels to sell which are unknown presently thus other buyers unaware they have purchased fakes . If op had the same thoughts and not posted here as he was happy with his refund would you or others here been refunded ? Few of those refunded may be less forward to display true thoughts as awaiting refunds or may have benifited as sold items with the auction house . Other members posts have prompted the owners reply If a private individual / member were selling these for years the forum would be up in arms , would expect an auction house to be more vigilant than a private seller and in this scenario it is more damning the auction house has let this occur for years , buyers have an assumed trust when dealing with auction houses These have been sold for years at vast profits , even years ago there were mentions of fakes around so more thorough checks should of been in place , no excuses
The term forum dramatics was in reference to the people who have gone full conspiracy theory, linking every fake Petrol Bomb they can find on the internet back to Tate Ward. Or stacking up unevidenced 'what if?' theories. I don't see the aim of it, beyond enjoying the drama. It's not useful to anyone to chuck around theories. It's certainly not useful to those looking for refunds. The more unfounded accusations made, the more confusing things become. Lots of libellous statements on here make a quick resolution for everyone less likely. Your post above contains at least one instance of libel, by the way. Jamie's clear, factual posts were incredibly useful. They helped me, and others mis-sold this piece, to get refunds. The rest, based on people's guesswork, adds very little. Obviously something weird has happened, either deliberately or unwittingly. Anyone who bought a fake would be fully within their rights to initiate legal action. I won't, because I don't see a worthwhile result coming from that. But if there were legal action brought, nothing posted in this thread in the past five pages would help it. Its not worthwhile investigating as you have been refunded ? What about all the members of the public that have purchased and are not aware of this thread? An investigation will lead to full transparency and ends the conspiracy theories you mention and rumours which annoy you www.met.police.uk/ro/report/fo/fraud/These have been soLd over years and could run into hundreds of thousands in profits , An investigation would clear the auction house by their accounts and lead to the source that may have used many other channels to sell which are unknown presently thus other buyers unaware they have purchased fakes . If op had the same thoughts and not posted here as he was happy with his refund would you or others here been refunded ? Few of those refunded may be less forward to display true thoughts as awaiting refunds or may have benifited as sold items with the auction house . Other members posts have prompted the owners reply If a private individual / member were selling these for years the forum would be up in arms , would expect an auction house to be more vigilant than a private seller and in this scenario it is more damning the auction house has let this occur for years , buyers have an assumed trust when dealing with auction houses These have been sold for years at vast profits , even years ago there were mentions of fakes around so more thorough checks should of been in place , no excuses |
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Deleted
🗨️ 0
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January 1970
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Banksy • Tesco Petrol Bomb Poster, by Deleted on Dec 1, 2020 14:21:32 GMT 1, The term forum dramatics was in reference to the people who have gone full conspiracy theory, linking every fake Petrol Bomb they can find on the internet back to Tate Ward. Or stacking up unevidenced 'what if?' theories. I don't see the aim of it, beyond enjoying the drama. It's not useful to anyone to chuck around theories. It's certainly not useful to those looking for refunds. The more unfounded accusations made, the more confusing things become. Lots of libellous statements on here make a quick resolution for everyone less likely. Your post above contains at least one instance of libel, by the way. Jamie's clear, factual posts were incredibly useful. They helped me, and others mis-sold this piece, to get refunds. The rest, based on people's guesswork, adds very little. Obviously something weird has happened, either deliberately or unwittingly. Anyone who bought a fake would be fully within their rights to initiate legal action. I won't, because I don't see a worthwhile result coming from that. But if there were legal action brought, nothing posted in this thread in the past five pages would help it. Its not worthwhile instigating as you have been refunded ? What about all the members of the public that have purchased and are not aware of this thread? An investigation will lead to full transparency and ends the conspiracy theories you mention and rumours which annoy you www.met.police.uk/ro/report/fo/fraud/These have been soLd over years and could run into hundreds of thousands in profits , An investigation would clear the auction house by their accounts and lead to the source that may have used many other channels to sell which are unknown presently thus other buyers unaware they have purchased fakes . If op had the same thoughts and not posted here as he was happy with his refund would you or others here been refunded ? Few of those refunded may be less forward to display true thoughts as awaiting refunds or may have benifited as sold items with the auction house . Other members posts have prompted the owners reply If a private individual / member were selling these for years the forum would be up in arms , would expect an auction house to be more vigilant than a private seller and in this scenario it is more damning the auction house has let this occur for years These have been sold for years at vast profits , even years ago there were mentions of fakes around so more thorough checks should of been in place , no excuses
Your post contains a lot of assumptions. This is what I mean by forum dramatics.
The term forum dramatics was in reference to the people who have gone full conspiracy theory, linking every fake Petrol Bomb they can find on the internet back to Tate Ward. Or stacking up unevidenced 'what if?' theories. I don't see the aim of it, beyond enjoying the drama. It's not useful to anyone to chuck around theories. It's certainly not useful to those looking for refunds. The more unfounded accusations made, the more confusing things become. Lots of libellous statements on here make a quick resolution for everyone less likely. Your post above contains at least one instance of libel, by the way. Jamie's clear, factual posts were incredibly useful. They helped me, and others mis-sold this piece, to get refunds. The rest, based on people's guesswork, adds very little. Obviously something weird has happened, either deliberately or unwittingly. Anyone who bought a fake would be fully within their rights to initiate legal action. I won't, because I don't see a worthwhile result coming from that. But if there were legal action brought, nothing posted in this thread in the past five pages would help it. Its not worthwhile instigating as you have been refunded ? What about all the members of the public that have purchased and are not aware of this thread? An investigation will lead to full transparency and ends the conspiracy theories you mention and rumours which annoy you www.met.police.uk/ro/report/fo/fraud/These have been soLd over years and could run into hundreds of thousands in profits , An investigation would clear the auction house by their accounts and lead to the source that may have used many other channels to sell which are unknown presently thus other buyers unaware they have purchased fakes . If op had the same thoughts and not posted here as he was happy with his refund would you or others here been refunded ? Few of those refunded may be less forward to display true thoughts as awaiting refunds or may have benifited as sold items with the auction house . Other members posts have prompted the owners reply If a private individual / member were selling these for years the forum would be up in arms , would expect an auction house to be more vigilant than a private seller and in this scenario it is more damning the auction house has let this occur for years These have been sold for years at vast profits , even years ago there were mentions of fakes around so more thorough checks should of been in place , no excuses Will you be footing the bill for legal expenses? And putting in all the time it would take? I said I would not be pursuing anything. If someone decided to and asked for my account of my purchase, of course I'd give it. Your post contains a lot of assumptions. This is what I mean by forum dramatics. |
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tab1
Full Member
🗨️ 8,519
👍🏻 3,679
September 2011
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Banksy • Tesco Petrol Bomb Poster, by tab1 on Dec 1, 2020 14:41:56 GMT 1, Its not worthwhile instigating as you have been refunded ? What about all the members of the public that have purchased and are not aware of this thread? An investigation will lead to full transparency and ends the conspiracy theories you mention and rumours which annoy you www.met.police.uk/ro/report/fo/fraud/These have been soLd over years and could run into hundreds of thousands in profits , An investigation would clear the auction house by their accounts and lead to the source that may have used many other channels to sell which are unknown presently thus other buyers unaware they have purchased fakes . If op had the same thoughts and not posted here as he was happy with his refund would you or others here been refunded ? Few of those refunded may be less forward to display true thoughts as awaiting refunds or may have benifited as sold items with the auction house . Other members posts have prompted the owners reply If a private individual / member were selling these for years the forum would be up in arms , would expect an auction house to be more vigilant than a private seller and in this scenario it is more damning the auction house has let this occur for years These have been sold for years at vast profits , even years ago there were mentions of fakes around so more thorough checks should of been in place , no excuses Will you be footing the bill for legal expenses? And putting in all the time it would take? I said I would not be pursuing anything. If someone decided to and asked for my account of my purchase, of course I'd give it. Your post contains a lot of assumptions. This is what I mean by forum dramatics.
Aware of someone who is cosidering commencing proceedings , everyone has their own choices , everyone will have an opinion at present
Dramatics?
Its not worthwhile instigating as you have been refunded ? What about all the members of the public that have purchased and are not aware of this thread? An investigation will lead to full transparency and ends the conspiracy theories you mention and rumours which annoy you www.met.police.uk/ro/report/fo/fraud/These have been soLd over years and could run into hundreds of thousands in profits , An investigation would clear the auction house by their accounts and lead to the source that may have used many other channels to sell which are unknown presently thus other buyers unaware they have purchased fakes . If op had the same thoughts and not posted here as he was happy with his refund would you or others here been refunded ? Few of those refunded may be less forward to display true thoughts as awaiting refunds or may have benifited as sold items with the auction house . Other members posts have prompted the owners reply If a private individual / member were selling these for years the forum would be up in arms , would expect an auction house to be more vigilant than a private seller and in this scenario it is more damning the auction house has let this occur for years These have been sold for years at vast profits , even years ago there were mentions of fakes around so more thorough checks should of been in place , no excuses Will you be footing the bill for legal expenses? And putting in all the time it would take? I said I would not be pursuing anything. If someone decided to and asked for my account of my purchase, of course I'd give it. Your post contains a lot of assumptions. This is what I mean by forum dramatics. Aware of someone who is cosidering commencing proceedings , everyone has their own choices , everyone will have an opinion at present Dramatics? |
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medichead
New Member
🗨️ 575
👍🏻 578
January 2017
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Banksy • Tesco Petrol Bomb Poster, by medichead on Dec 1, 2020 15:16:37 GMT 1, Very interested to know which word/phrase is libellous, happy to change if that's appropriate. This bit. It's stated as fact but unproven: " We have a business partner of an auction house owner selling - over a period of years - countless counterfeit copies of Banksy ephemera at great profit"
Very interested to know which word/phrase is libellous, happy to change if that's appropriate. This bit. It's stated as fact but unproven: " We have a business partner of an auction house owner selling - over a period of years - countless counterfeit copies of Banksy ephemera at great profit" I've edited it to reflect your comment. Thank you. |
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JFCC
New Member
🗨️ 390
👍🏻 394
May 2020
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Banksy • Tesco Petrol Bomb Poster, by JFCC on Dec 1, 2020 15:17:49 GMT 1, This is like watching a car crash in slow motion.
Tate Ward have clearly, at their own admission sold fakes. Life all auctioneers they have a duty of care to take all reasonable steps to ensure their representations are accurate, again at their own admission they appear not to have done so as the results are there for all to see with them seeking to buy back all of those items found to be fake.
Whilst Petrol Bomb is the item that has come to the fore there has been a lot of speculation around a number of the GDP prints in the market as a whole, with whole threads around items' legitimacy or otherwise.
I have no view if Tate Ward have sold any fake GDP or other non COA posters, stickers or the like, but if I was them I would to know for certain that I had, or had not.
Clearly there is a strong supply chain of these fake prints, and similar non COA items, which Tate Ward have not had processes to prohibit entering their auctions. This is where a police investigation should start, at Tate Ward, Nick (and his related sources) and a number of their consignors.
This is about the market as whole and is not about conspiracy theories. What everyone should want is to eliminate the parasitic elements from the marketplace. It is also about help this poor unfortunates, both on this forum, and those who are not, who are naively sitting there believing their treasured work is not only a great piece of art but is nicely accumulating investment for them.
In order to restore that magic word "Trust" which Tate Ward refer to in their recent post, they themselves should call the Police in to investigate the situation as it is in their own interest to prove that they have been both innocent in the practise but to help eradicate those who have been guilty of deliberately and wantonly supplying fakes in to the market via eBay, galleries and their and other auction houses. No drama, no fuss just doing the right thing for all concerned who have bought in the past and may buy again from them in the future.
This is like watching a car crash in slow motion.
Tate Ward have clearly, at their own admission sold fakes. Life all auctioneers they have a duty of care to take all reasonable steps to ensure their representations are accurate, again at their own admission they appear not to have done so as the results are there for all to see with them seeking to buy back all of those items found to be fake.
Whilst Petrol Bomb is the item that has come to the fore there has been a lot of speculation around a number of the GDP prints in the market as a whole, with whole threads around items' legitimacy or otherwise.
I have no view if Tate Ward have sold any fake GDP or other non COA posters, stickers or the like, but if I was them I would to know for certain that I had, or had not.
Clearly there is a strong supply chain of these fake prints, and similar non COA items, which Tate Ward have not had processes to prohibit entering their auctions. This is where a police investigation should start, at Tate Ward, Nick (and his related sources) and a number of their consignors.
This is about the market as whole and is not about conspiracy theories. What everyone should want is to eliminate the parasitic elements from the marketplace. It is also about help this poor unfortunates, both on this forum, and those who are not, who are naively sitting there believing their treasured work is not only a great piece of art but is nicely accumulating investment for them.
In order to restore that magic word "Trust" which Tate Ward refer to in their recent post, they themselves should call the Police in to investigate the situation as it is in their own interest to prove that they have been both innocent in the practise but to help eradicate those who have been guilty of deliberately and wantonly supplying fakes in to the market via eBay, galleries and their and other auction houses. No drama, no fuss just doing the right thing for all concerned who have bought in the past and may buy again from them in the future.
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tab1
Full Member
🗨️ 8,519
👍🏻 3,679
September 2011
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Banksy • Tesco Petrol Bomb Poster, by tab1 on Dec 1, 2020 15:34:47 GMT 1, This is like watching a car crash in slow motion. Tate Ward have clearly, at their own admission sold fakes. Life all auctioneers they have a duty of care to take all reasonable steps to ensure their representations are accurate, again at their own admission they appear not to have done so as the results are there for all to see with them seeking to buy back all of those items found to be fake. Whilst Petrol Bomb is the item that has come to the fore there has been a lot of speculation around a number of the GDP prints in the market as a whole, with whole threads around items' legitimacy or otherwise. I have no view if Tate Ward have sold any fake GDP or other non COA posters, stickers or the like, but if I was them I would to know for certain that I had, or had not. Clearly there is a strong supply chain of these fake prints, and similar non COA items, which Tate Ward have not had processes to prohibit entering their auctions. This is where a police investigation should start, at Tate Ward, Nick (and his related sources) and a number of their consignors. This is about the market as whole and is not about conspiracy theories. What everyone should want is to eliminate the parasitic elements from the marketplace. It is also about help this poor unfortunates, both on this forum, and those who are not, who are naively sitting there believing their treasured work is not only a great piece of art but is nicely accumulating investment for them. In order to restore that magic word "Trust" which Tate Ward refer to in their recent post, they themselves should call the Police in to investigate the situation as it is in their own interest to prove that they have been both innocent in the practise but to help eradicate those who have been guilty of deliberately and wantonly supplying fakes in to the market via eBay, galleries and their and other auction houses. No drama, no fuss just doing the right thing for all concerned who have bought in the past and may buy again from them in the future.
A new member with sense .
How many gdp posters items were sold through tate ? With vigilance lacking in the assesment of the firebomb posters it is plausible the same lack of assesment was shown towards the gdp posters .
The average buyer when conducting business with an auction house naturally assumes all is above board and trust is instilled in the transaction
This is like watching a car crash in slow motion. Tate Ward have clearly, at their own admission sold fakes. Life all auctioneers they have a duty of care to take all reasonable steps to ensure their representations are accurate, again at their own admission they appear not to have done so as the results are there for all to see with them seeking to buy back all of those items found to be fake. Whilst Petrol Bomb is the item that has come to the fore there has been a lot of speculation around a number of the GDP prints in the market as a whole, with whole threads around items' legitimacy or otherwise. I have no view if Tate Ward have sold any fake GDP or other non COA posters, stickers or the like, but if I was them I would to know for certain that I had, or had not. Clearly there is a strong supply chain of these fake prints, and similar non COA items, which Tate Ward have not had processes to prohibit entering their auctions. This is where a police investigation should start, at Tate Ward, Nick (and his related sources) and a number of their consignors. This is about the market as whole and is not about conspiracy theories. What everyone should want is to eliminate the parasitic elements from the marketplace. It is also about help this poor unfortunates, both on this forum, and those who are not, who are naively sitting there believing their treasured work is not only a great piece of art but is nicely accumulating investment for them. In order to restore that magic word "Trust" which Tate Ward refer to in their recent post, they themselves should call the Police in to investigate the situation as it is in their own interest to prove that they have been both innocent in the practise but to help eradicate those who have been guilty of deliberately and wantonly supplying fakes in to the market via eBay, galleries and their and other auction houses. No drama, no fuss just doing the right thing for all concerned who have bought in the past and may buy again from them in the future. A new member with sense . How many gdp posters items were sold through tate ? With vigilance lacking in the assesment of the firebomb posters it is plausible the same lack of assesment was shown towards the gdp posters . The average buyer when conducting business with an auction house naturally assumes all is above board and trust is instilled in the transaction |
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Deleted
🗨️ 0
👍🏻
January 1970
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Banksy • Tesco Petrol Bomb Poster, by Deleted on Dec 1, 2020 16:03:38 GMT 1, This is like watching a car crash in slow motion. Tate Ward have clearly, at their own admission sold fakes. Life all auctioneers they have a duty of care to take all reasonable steps to ensure their representations are accurate, again at their own admission they appear not to have done so as the results are there for all to see with them seeking to buy back all of those items found to be fake. Whilst Petrol Bomb is the item that has come to the fore there has been a lot of speculation around a number of the GDP prints in the market as a whole, with whole threads around items' legitimacy or otherwise. I have no view if Tate Ward have sold any fake GDP or other non COA posters, stickers or the like, but if I was them I would to know for certain that I had, or had not. Clearly there is a strong supply chain of these fake prints, and similar non COA items, which Tate Ward have not had processes to prohibit entering their auctions. This is where a police investigation should start, at Tate Ward, Nick (and his related sources) and a number of their consignors. This is about the market as whole and is not about conspiracy theories. What everyone should want is to eliminate the parasitic elements from the marketplace. It is also about help this poor unfortunates, both on this forum, and those who are not, who are naively sitting there believing their treasured work is not only a great piece of art but is nicely accumulating investment for them. In order to restore that magic word "Trust" which Tate Ward refer to in their recent post, they themselves should call the Police in to investigate the situation as it is in their own interest to prove that they have been both innocent in the practise but to help eradicate those who have been guilty of deliberately and wantonly supplying fakes in to the market via eBay, galleries and their and other auction houses. No drama, no fuss just doing the right thing for all concerned who have bought in the past and may buy again from them in the future.
This is like watching a car crash in slow motion. Tate Ward have clearly, at their own admission sold fakes. Life all auctioneers they have a duty of care to take all reasonable steps to ensure their representations are accurate, again at their own admission they appear not to have done so as the results are there for all to see with them seeking to buy back all of those items found to be fake. Whilst Petrol Bomb is the item that has come to the fore there has been a lot of speculation around a number of the GDP prints in the market as a whole, with whole threads around items' legitimacy or otherwise. I have no view if Tate Ward have sold any fake GDP or other non COA posters, stickers or the like, but if I was them I would to know for certain that I had, or had not. Clearly there is a strong supply chain of these fake prints, and similar non COA items, which Tate Ward have not had processes to prohibit entering their auctions. This is where a police investigation should start, at Tate Ward, Nick (and his related sources) and a number of their consignors. This is about the market as whole and is not about conspiracy theories. What everyone should want is to eliminate the parasitic elements from the marketplace. It is also about help this poor unfortunates, both on this forum, and those who are not, who are naively sitting there believing their treasured work is not only a great piece of art but is nicely accumulating investment for them. In order to restore that magic word "Trust" which Tate Ward refer to in their recent post, they themselves should call the Police in to investigate the situation as it is in their own interest to prove that they have been both innocent in the practise but to help eradicate those who have been guilty of deliberately and wantonly supplying fakes in to the market via eBay, galleries and their and other auction houses. No drama, no fuss just doing the right thing for all concerned who have bought in the past and may buy again from them in the future. Absolutely agree with all of this. |
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Deleted
🗨️ 0
👍🏻
January 1970
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Banksy • Tesco Petrol Bomb Poster, by Deleted on Dec 1, 2020 16:04:43 GMT 1, I've edited it to reflect your comment. Thank you.
I've edited it to reflect your comment. Thank you. Deleted my post so the original quote isn't still on the board. |
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lv90210
Junior Member
🗨️ 2,030
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January 2018
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Banksy • Tesco Petrol Bomb Poster, by lv90210 on Dec 1, 2020 16:09:19 GMT 1, Im confused......
If I buy from Sothebys again, do I have to do my own due diligence to see if the piece of work is fake or not ?
Sorry to be off topic.
Im confused......
If I buy from Sothebys again, do I have to do my own due diligence to see if the piece of work is fake or not ?
Sorry to be off topic.
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jamieb
New Member
🗨️ 673
👍🏻 516
December 2007
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Banksy • Tesco Petrol Bomb Poster, by jamieb on Dec 1, 2020 16:09:26 GMT 1, A new member with sense . How many gdp posters items were sold through tate ? With vigilance lacking in the assesment of the firebomb posters it is plausible the same lack of assesment was shown towards the gdp posters . The average buyer when conducting business with an auction house naturally assumes all is above board and trust is instilled in the transaction
A prospective buyer can go to ebay, a forum or Facebook etc. and buy an item with the associated risks.
Or can pay, a not insignificant premium to buy from an Auction house or Gallery with expectation that with that premium comes the trust that the item is indeed genuine and that they are indeed experts in the field.
A new member with sense . How many gdp posters items were sold through tate ? With vigilance lacking in the assesment of the firebomb posters it is plausible the same lack of assesment was shown towards the gdp posters . The average buyer when conducting business with an auction house naturally assumes all is above board and trust is instilled in the transaction And this is a key point. A prospective buyer can go to ebay, a forum or Facebook etc. and buy an item with the associated risks. Or can pay, a not insignificant premium to buy from an Auction house or Gallery with expectation that with that premium comes the trust that the item is indeed genuine and that they are indeed experts in the field. |
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tab1
Full Member
🗨️ 8,519
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September 2011
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Banksy • Tesco Petrol Bomb Poster, by tab1 on Dec 1, 2020 16:15:02 GMT 1, Im confused...... If I buy from Sothebys again, do I have to do my own due diligence to see if the piece of work is fake or not ? Sorry to be off topic.
Think they only meant their business
Im confused...... If I buy from Sothebys again, do I have to do my own due diligence to see if the piece of work is fake or not ? Sorry to be off topic. Think they only meant their business |
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lv90210
Junior Member
🗨️ 2,030
👍🏻 1,926
January 2018
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Banksy • Tesco Petrol Bomb Poster, by lv90210 on Dec 1, 2020 16:18:58 GMT 1, Im confused...... If I buy from Sothebys again, do I have to do my own due diligence to see if the piece of work is fake or not ? Sorry to be off topic. Think they only meant their business
I must have my blonde head on today as I'm still confused - apologies.
Im confused...... If I buy from Sothebys again, do I have to do my own due diligence to see if the piece of work is fake or not ? Sorry to be off topic. Think they only meant their business So the firm in question are different from Sothebys ? I must have my blonde head on today as I'm still confused - apologies. |
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JFCC
New Member
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May 2020
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Banksy • Tesco Petrol Bomb Poster, by JFCC on Dec 1, 2020 16:35:05 GMT 1, Im confused...... If I buy from Sothebys again, do I have to do my own due diligence to see if the piece of work is fake or not ? Sorry to be off topic.
This is covered in law by the Doctrine of Estoppel which states in essence that you will be protected if you relied on those statement and assumptions there from, which subsequently turned out to be untrue.
So buying from a Gallery and Auction house you can categorically rely on their statements, unless you could be reasonably shown to have thought they to be false.
On eBay or at flea market, less so as you cannot assume that the seller himself has knowledge unless it is unequivocally clear that he is a trader and that that would be a fair assumption.
So, here Tate Ward have a duty of care not to make false representations and they must be able to show they took all reasonable steps to prevent making a false statement.
Im confused...... If I buy from Sothebys again, do I have to do my own due diligence to see if the piece of work is fake or not ? Sorry to be off topic. If you buy from a an Auction House or a Gallery they have a duty of care to you as buyer, as they are holding out to offer "expert" knowledge and, it is fair to assume, have taken all reasonable steps to ensure the representations they are making are reasonable and truthful. This is covered in law by the Doctrine of Estoppel which states in essence that you will be protected if you relied on those statement and assumptions there from, which subsequently turned out to be untrue. So buying from a Gallery and Auction house you can categorically rely on their statements, unless you could be reasonably shown to have thought they to be false. On eBay or at flea market, less so as you cannot assume that the seller himself has knowledge unless it is unequivocally clear that he is a trader and that that would be a fair assumption. So, here Tate Ward have a duty of care not to make false representations and they must be able to show they took all reasonable steps to prevent making a false statement. |
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