Cocteau 101
Junior Member
Posts โข 3,483
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January 2007
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Charidee Complete & A Big THANK YOU!!!, by Cocteau 101 on Feb 21, 2008 23:24:52 GMT 1, This is a very sad outcome. I remember pming you Verbal with my support, in your defence I know you had your own issues to deal with, were moving flats in London etc etc But that response to Neil who I have every respect for makes you sound like a rather famous footballer we have all read about today. Not clever and very damaging for the forum.
This is a very sad outcome. I remember pming you Verbal with my support, in your defence I know you had your own issues to deal with, were moving flats in London etc etc But that response to Neil who I have every respect for makes you sound like a rather famous footballer we have all read about today. Not clever and very damaging for the forum.
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Ripper1331
Artist
New Member
Posts โข 351
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February 2007
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Charidee Complete & A Big THANK YOU!!!, by Ripper1331 on Feb 21, 2008 23:25:38 GMT 1, Thanks for all the effort Neil; sorry it's all gone sideways.
Verbal - you can't get much lower than taking from kids really, unless of course you drag their name through the mud while doing it.
Copyright don't let one bad experience overshadow the good ones, at the end of the day we're out a few pieces and some time but it was all donated for a good cause and of all the charity events I've donated to this is the first to not benefit anyone but the organizer.
Thanks for all the effort Neil; sorry it's all gone sideways.
Verbal - you can't get much lower than taking from kids really, unless of course you drag their name through the mud while doing it.
Copyright don't let one bad experience overshadow the good ones, at the end of the day we're out a few pieces and some time but it was all donated for a good cause and of all the charity events I've donated to this is the first to not benefit anyone but the organizer.
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top
Junior Member
Posts โข 2,486
Likes โข 4
November 2007
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Charidee Complete & A Big THANK YOU!!!, by top on Feb 21, 2008 23:39:34 GMT 1, Hopefully the sour taste will diminish quickly Neil.
Such a shame it has distorted into an utter shambles
I admire your determination and diligence, you are right to walk away now..hold your head up and let verbal drown in his own shit.
Pez is right about communicating the facts to all those involved, hope it gets sorted.
And guess what folks..its all for charity ;D ..love the sketches!
Hopefully the sour taste will diminish quickly Neil. Such a shame it has distorted into an utter shambles I admire your determination and diligence, you are right to walk away now..hold your head up and let verbal drown in his own shit. Pez is right about communicating the facts to all those involved, hope it gets sorted. And guess what folks..its all for charity ;D ..love the sketches!
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Martin Whatson
Artist
Junior Member
Posts โข 2,285
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May 2007
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Charidee Complete & A Big THANK YOU!!!, by Martin Whatson on Feb 21, 2008 23:51:16 GMT 1, Ill be happy to donate another piece witch I will personally send to the buyer and I will personally put the money in on either Harveyn's paypal or to bluebell. If anyone wants one of theese for a good cause and to get this sad story back on a good track I will donate 20 pounds from each of the first three of this pieces sold!
Price is 20 pounds + postage Send me a pm if you are interested! Thanks for all your help Harveyn. Also if someone wants to add another 5 pounds to a payment I will send one of them out to Harveyn as a thanks for the patient work he has done!
Thanks. Martin
Ill be happy to donate another piece witch I will personally send to the buyer and I will personally put the money in on either Harveyn's paypal or to bluebell. If anyone wants one of theese for a good cause and to get this sad story back on a good track I will donate 20 pounds from each of the first three of this pieces sold! Price is 20 pounds + postage Send me a pm if you are interested! Thanks for all your help Harveyn. Also if someone wants to add another 5 pounds to a payment I will send one of them out to Harveyn as a thanks for the patient work he has done! Thanks. Martin
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holden
New Member
Posts โข 541
Likes โข 29
July 2008
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Charidee Complete & A Big THANK YOU!!!, by holden on Feb 22, 2008 1:30:42 GMT 1, Nice work Neil, above and beyond the call of duty by the sound of it. Verbal, nice work mate. From sympathy to empathy. Nice new Ian Francis by the way
Nice work Neil, above and beyond the call of duty by the sound of it. Verbal, nice work mate. From sympathy to empathy. Nice new Ian Francis by the way
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Harveyn
Forum Guardian
Full Member
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July 2007
Staff Member
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Charidee Complete & A Big THANK YOU!!!, by Harveyn on Feb 22, 2008 8:23:49 GMT 1, Thanks Whatson.
Please donate all money directly to Helen at Bluebell.
Thanks Whatson.
Please donate all money directly to Helen at Bluebell.
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Charidee Complete & A Big THANK YOU!!!, by daveanthony28 on Feb 22, 2008 10:59:34 GMT 1, Well done for all your hard work Harveyn. From posts I've read you put a lot of time & effort in to help a good cause. hope it all get's sorted from the other guy's end as it would be bad for the charity to lose out & also the buyers.
Well done for all your hard work Harveyn. From posts I've read you put a lot of time & effort in to help a good cause. hope it all get's sorted from the other guy's end as it would be bad for the charity to lose out & also the buyers.
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Charidee Complete & A Big THANK YOU!!!, by orangematt on Feb 22, 2008 12:12:07 GMT 1, :/
So , if i read right Verbal says its ok for you to collect the unauctioned items from him ? Well in which case cant a couple of good forum mebers who live somewhere near the man ( guessing London ) go along and pick the lot up !! I would volounteer to do so myself but Somerset is quite a drive , but i will do it if no one else want to !!! damn the expense , surely this is the way to go !! What does everyone think ?
SPQR
:/
So , if i read right Verbal says its ok for you to collect the unauctioned items from him ? Well in which case cant a couple of good forum mebers who live somewhere near the man ( guessing London ) go along and pick the lot up !! I would volounteer to do so myself but Somerset is quite a drive , but i will do it if no one else want to !!! damn the expense , surely this is the way to go !! What does everyone think ?
SPQR
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pezlow
Junior Member
Posts โข 5,388
Likes โข 254
January 2007
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Charidee Complete & A Big THANK YOU!!!, by pezlow on Feb 22, 2008 12:14:56 GMT 1, I think actually all of the lots are up in yorkshire - this is apparently one of the explanations that verbal has given to my friend dan for the delay in sending them out.
I think actually all of the lots are up in yorkshire - this is apparently one of the explanations that verbal has given to my friend dan for the delay in sending them out.
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Charidee Complete & A Big THANK YOU!!!, by daveanthony28 on Feb 22, 2008 12:31:12 GMT 1, Anybody in/near Yorkshire guys/gals ?
Anybody in/near Yorkshire guys/gals ?
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gozgoz
Junior Member
Posts โข 1,617
Likes โข 7
September 2007
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Charidee Complete & A Big THANK YOU!!!, by gozgoz on Feb 22, 2008 12:40:26 GMT 1, well if anyones gonna get them back i'll like mine back... i took ages to do it and it was my very first time doing silkscreening and my first actual piece of art.
well if anyones gonna get them back i'll like mine back... i took ages to do it and it was my very first time doing silkscreening and my first actual piece of art.
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Harveyn
Forum Guardian
Full Member
Posts โข 7,690
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July 2007
Staff Member
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Charidee Complete & A Big THANK YOU!!!, by Harveyn on Feb 22, 2008 12:48:54 GMT 1, SPQR - I am more than happy for someone else to get them off him. After another email from him last night I seriously have no wish to make any further communication. I really do not like the veiled threat contained within.
"I am grateful for the work you have done but am so happy that you are not going to be interfearing anymore. I'm sure you will have a parting shot, you will not be able to resist, but if you do wish to cross swords with me instead of just fading away then you had better make sure that it is very sharp"
My interference has been this.
After the 1st set of auctions which were delayed significantly, after numerous complaints from the buyers and information that was sent to me about Verbal I contacted Bluebell and they voiced the fact that they already had concerns. This resulted in me contacting Verbal at Bluebell's request to make a payment immediately to Bluebell and hopefully to restore some confidence in the auctions.
I then had no further communication of any significance with Verbal until the second set of of auctions started producing further complaints about receipts and payments to both myself and Bluebell. Bluebell then contacted me and ask me to put an ultimatum to Verbal which I did. It was this ultimatum for the pieces to be sent to me and a summary of the outstanding payments that resulted in more extremely arrogant, rude and threatening communications from Verbal.
The guy has actually stated that Bluebell and myself have been in collusion to try and take over the auctions.
"constantly had discussions with helen behind my back have created your own little loop and kept me out of it, you are a power hungry fool"
Bluebell had contacted Verbal independently on several occasion and guess what, they received no communication back.
I can do with out threats like....
"you really want to see what happens when my utter contempt for you explodes then I suggest you continue with this 'hostile takeover"
I deeply regret having been involved in this process and apologize for the pleas I made to many artists, galleries and members to donate.
SPQR - I am more than happy for someone else to get them off him. After another email from him last night I seriously have no wish to make any further communication. I really do not like the veiled threat contained within.
"I am grateful for the work you have done but am so happy that you are not going to be interfearing anymore. I'm sure you will have a parting shot, you will not be able to resist, but if you do wish to cross swords with me instead of just fading away then you had better make sure that it is very sharp"
My interference has been this.
After the 1st set of auctions which were delayed significantly, after numerous complaints from the buyers and information that was sent to me about Verbal I contacted Bluebell and they voiced the fact that they already had concerns. This resulted in me contacting Verbal at Bluebell's request to make a payment immediately to Bluebell and hopefully to restore some confidence in the auctions.
I then had no further communication of any significance with Verbal until the second set of of auctions started producing further complaints about receipts and payments to both myself and Bluebell. Bluebell then contacted me and ask me to put an ultimatum to Verbal which I did. It was this ultimatum for the pieces to be sent to me and a summary of the outstanding payments that resulted in more extremely arrogant, rude and threatening communications from Verbal.
The guy has actually stated that Bluebell and myself have been in collusion to try and take over the auctions.
"constantly had discussions with helen behind my back have created your own little loop and kept me out of it, you are a power hungry fool"
Bluebell had contacted Verbal independently on several occasion and guess what, they received no communication back.
I can do with out threats like....
"you really want to see what happens when my utter contempt for you explodes then I suggest you continue with this 'hostile takeover"
I deeply regret having been involved in this process and apologize for the pleas I made to many artists, galleries and members to donate.
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pezlow
Junior Member
Posts โข 5,388
Likes โข 254
January 2007
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Charidee Complete & A Big THANK YOU!!!, by pezlow on Feb 22, 2008 12:55:11 GMT 1, ps I think you should publish what you know about verbal. Why keep it a secret. It is a matter of public record and people are entitled to know who they are dealing with.
ps I think you should publish what you know about verbal. Why keep it a secret. It is a matter of public record and people are entitled to know who they are dealing with.
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holden
New Member
Posts โข 541
Likes โข 29
July 2008
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Charidee Complete & A Big THANK YOU!!!, by holden on Feb 22, 2008 13:03:35 GMT 1, people are entitled to know who they are dealing with.
a little boy by the sound of it
people are entitled to know who they are dealing with. a little boy by the sound of it
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jellya
Junior Member
Posts โข 2,738
Likes โข 335
November 2006
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Charidee Complete & A Big THANK YOU!!!, by jellya on Feb 22, 2008 13:03:42 GMT 1, Well done for putting up with so much in the interests of Bluebell (making sure they received something after the first round), the artists and the buyers. Your hands are clean Harveyn. I think most, if not all, of the forum, appreciate that and would want to thank you for all your efforts and for keeping a professional and civil outlook on it all.
Well done for putting up with so much in the interests of Bluebell (making sure they received something after the first round), the artists and the buyers. Your hands are clean Harveyn. I think most, if not all, of the forum, appreciate that and would want to thank you for all your efforts and for keeping a professional and civil outlook on it all.
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Charidee Complete & A Big THANK YOU!!!, by bobbyt23 on Feb 22, 2008 13:12:24 GMT 1, Anybody in/near Yorkshire guys/gals ?
I live in Yorkshire and would be happy to help out if needs be. Someone get in touch and we can see if I can help.
Anybody in/near Yorkshire guys/gals ? I live in Yorkshire and would be happy to help out if needs be. Someone get in touch and we can see if I can help.
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Blind Angle
Art Gallery
New Member
Posts โข 399
Likes โข 0
July 2007
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Charidee Complete & A Big THANK YOU!!!, by Blind Angle on Feb 22, 2008 13:37:12 GMT 1, Hi Harveyn
I can only echo what people are saying above and thank you for the great effort you have put in to try and get the whole thing back on track!
Of course i'm very sorry to see the mess the whole auction has ended up in, but i believe that this should not scare us (all forum members) from participating charity auctions in the future. I guess though that how the whole process is constructed needs to be discussed and rather than relying on individuals to do the practical work it should be probably be group of members doing the practical work as this often tends to be much more time consuming than one thinks.
Maybe it would be a good idea now to make an excact status of:
Works donated Works sold and paid for Works recieved Works remaining to be sold Value of work sold Money recieved by Bluebell Money outstanding.
Maybe this has already been done, and if so please pardon me! I think if we get this cleared and get a good status and the remaining works picked up we can get the whole auction sorted out and taken to conclusion.
Maybe it would be an idea to start a tread where the people still waiting to recieve the work they have paid for list, or this could maybe be done via an email adress.
As i said above i think this forum can still contribute to a lot of good causes as the willingness of the members to donate work to this auction has shown!
cheers
Ragnar
Hi Harveyn
I can only echo what people are saying above and thank you for the great effort you have put in to try and get the whole thing back on track!
Of course i'm very sorry to see the mess the whole auction has ended up in, but i believe that this should not scare us (all forum members) from participating charity auctions in the future. I guess though that how the whole process is constructed needs to be discussed and rather than relying on individuals to do the practical work it should be probably be group of members doing the practical work as this often tends to be much more time consuming than one thinks.
Maybe it would be a good idea now to make an excact status of:
Works donated Works sold and paid for Works recieved Works remaining to be sold Value of work sold Money recieved by Bluebell Money outstanding.
Maybe this has already been done, and if so please pardon me! I think if we get this cleared and get a good status and the remaining works picked up we can get the whole auction sorted out and taken to conclusion.
Maybe it would be an idea to start a tread where the people still waiting to recieve the work they have paid for list, or this could maybe be done via an email adress.
As i said above i think this forum can still contribute to a lot of good causes as the willingness of the members to donate work to this auction has shown!
cheers
Ragnar
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Harveyn
Forum Guardian
Full Member
Posts โข 7,690
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July 2007
Staff Member
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Charidee Complete & A Big THANK YOU!!!, by Harveyn on Feb 22, 2008 13:52:13 GMT 1, Hi Ragnar
I agree but unfortunately Verbal is not prepared to give me a status report other than ยฃ3000 pounds worth of auctions have not been paid.
Trying to ascertain the status through the forum will be difficult as I am sure many pieces were bought by non-members.
I am 100% behind running next years auction as long as the members are happy. It will be the forums auction and the format/charities to benefit will be decided by the forum.
I have spoken to Helen at Bluebell and she will contact me once they have meet internally to decide what to do. She has once again reiterated her thanks for the generosity of the forum members and the ยฃ4200 paid to date.
Hi Ragnar
I agree but unfortunately Verbal is not prepared to give me a status report other than ยฃ3000 pounds worth of auctions have not been paid.
Trying to ascertain the status through the forum will be difficult as I am sure many pieces were bought by non-members.
I am 100% behind running next years auction as long as the members are happy. It will be the forums auction and the format/charities to benefit will be decided by the forum.
I have spoken to Helen at Bluebell and she will contact me once they have meet internally to decide what to do. She has once again reiterated her thanks for the generosity of the forum members and the ยฃ4200 paid to date.
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Charidee Complete & A Big THANK YOU!!!, by dave313perry on Feb 22, 2008 13:58:27 GMT 1, more than happy for you to run things next year mate, lessons learnt so your in a better position than anyone to do a smashing job next year!!!
nevertheless congrats on this years total mate i know you've put in alot of time, effort and consideration, and your communication has been top draw
more than happy for you to run things next year mate, lessons learnt so your in a better position than anyone to do a smashing job next year!!!
nevertheless congrats on this years total mate i know you've put in alot of time, effort and consideration, and your communication has been top draw
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Charidee Complete & A Big THANK YOU!!!, by orangematt on Feb 22, 2008 14:02:03 GMT 1,
Its a massive shame it has come to this.. But lets not forget that a good sum has been raised for bluebell which i am sure will be put to very good use .. its a shame they have to waste precious resources chasing down this Verbal character .
Harveyn you have nothing at all to be regretful about, the matter has been out of your hands since the beginning , I for one was more than happy to donate and definitely wish to donate to the next one which you will be running !
I also reiterate that if my donation has not been recieved by the purchaser then if they can let me know i will remake the piece from scratch and make sure that they receive it safely .. adding that i request Verbal to return the original to me if he cant post it out to the winning bidder ! If he does not this will be considered ' theft '..
Lets not let one bad character foul up the forum or future auctions ..
SPQR
Its a massive shame it has come to this.. But lets not forget that a good sum has been raised for bluebell which i am sure will be put to very good use .. its a shame they have to waste precious resources chasing down this Verbal character . Harveyn you have nothing at all to be regretful about, the matter has been out of your hands since the beginning , I for one was more than happy to donate and definitely wish to donate to the next one which you will be running ! I also reiterate that if my donation has not been recieved by the purchaser then if they can let me know i will remake the piece from scratch and make sure that they receive it safely .. adding that i request Verbal to return the original to me if he cant post it out to the winning bidder ! If he does not this will be considered ' theft '.. Lets not let one bad character foul up the forum or future auctions .. SPQR
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dmandpenfold
Junior Member
Posts โข 2,466
Likes โข 10
December 2006
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Charidee Complete & A Big THANK YOU!!!, by dmandpenfold on Feb 22, 2008 15:33:00 GMT 1, deja vu anyone??
Shame it's come to this, but well done for all the effort to those involved.
deja vu anyone??
Shame it's come to this, but well done for all the effort to those involved.
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Charidee Complete & A Big THANK YOU!!!, by cbl on Feb 22, 2008 16:24:47 GMT 1, I've just re-registered to make my feelings known on this issue as I have been personally involved in the auctions by winning one of them.
I must say well done to you Harveyn in everything you've done and tried to do, I can understand why you can't continue given verbals attitude.
I was lucky to get what I paid for (1 month after winning) and also luckily my money has been donated. Verbal never answered any of my emails and was a pain to deal with, I left no feedback as looking at his Diamond dealing account if I had given him poor feedback he'd of just been nasty back. Note that Verbals diamond dealing account is now closed and plenty of people are left with no diamonds and no refund. If you care to google "Christopher Whitnall" as a UK search other information will come to light that I won't comment on here.
It's a real shame it's gone all pear-shaped.
I've just re-registered to make my feelings known on this issue as I have been personally involved in the auctions by winning one of them.
I must say well done to you Harveyn in everything you've done and tried to do, I can understand why you can't continue given verbals attitude.
I was lucky to get what I paid for (1 month after winning) and also luckily my money has been donated. Verbal never answered any of my emails and was a pain to deal with, I left no feedback as looking at his Diamond dealing account if I had given him poor feedback he'd of just been nasty back. Note that Verbals diamond dealing account is now closed and plenty of people are left with no diamonds and no refund. If you care to google "Christopher Whitnall" as a UK search other information will come to light that I won't comment on here.
It's a real shame it's gone all pear-shaped.
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Charidee Complete & A Big THANK YOU!!!, by manchestermike on Feb 22, 2008 16:38:44 GMT 1, I've just re-registered to make my feelings known on this issue as I have been personally involved in the auctions by winning one of them. I must say well done to you Harveyn in everything you've done and tried to do, I can understand why you can't continue given verbals attitude. I was lucky to get what I paid for (1 month after winning) and also luckily my money has been donated. Verbal never answered any of my emails and was a pain to deal with, I left no feedback as looking at his Diamond dealing account if I had given him poor feedback he'd of just been nasty back. Note that Verbals diamond dealing account is now closed and plenty of people are left with no diamonds and no refund. If you care to google "Christopher Whitnall" as a UK search other information will come to light that I won't comment on here. It's a real shame it's gone all pear-shaped.
I just did
I've just re-registered to make my feelings known on this issue as I have been personally involved in the auctions by winning one of them. I must say well done to you Harveyn in everything you've done and tried to do, I can understand why you can't continue given verbals attitude. I was lucky to get what I paid for (1 month after winning) and also luckily my money has been donated. Verbal never answered any of my emails and was a pain to deal with, I left no feedback as looking at his Diamond dealing account if I had given him poor feedback he'd of just been nasty back. Note that Verbals diamond dealing account is now closed and plenty of people are left with no diamonds and no refund. If you care to google "Christopher Whitnall" as a UK search other information will come to light that I won't comment on here. It's a real shame it's gone all pear-shaped. I just did
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top
Junior Member
Posts โข 2,486
Likes โข 4
November 2007
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Charidee Complete & A Big THANK YOU!!!, by top on Feb 22, 2008 16:41:28 GMT 1, I've just re-registered to make my feelings known on this issue as I have been personally involved in the auctions by winning one of them. I must say well done to you Harveyn in everything you've done and tried to do, I can understand why you can't continue given verbals attitude. I was lucky to get what I paid for (1 month after winning) and also luckily my money has been donated. Verbal never answered any of my emails and was a pain to deal with, I left no feedback as looking at his Diamond dealing account if I had given him poor feedback he'd of just been nasty back. Note that Verbals diamond dealing account is now closed and plenty of people are left with no diamonds and no refund. If you care to google "Christopher Whitnall" as a UK search other information will come to light that I won't comment on here. It's a real shame it's gone all pear-shaped.
Oooops..looks bad from here on in..
..fucking hell..
I've just re-registered to make my feelings known on this issue as I have been personally involved in the auctions by winning one of them. I must say well done to you Harveyn in everything you've done and tried to do, I can understand why you can't continue given verbals attitude. I was lucky to get what I paid for (1 month after winning) and also luckily my money has been donated. Verbal never answered any of my emails and was a pain to deal with, I left no feedback as looking at his Diamond dealing account if I had given him poor feedback he'd of just been nasty back. Note that Verbals diamond dealing account is now closed and plenty of people are left with no diamonds and no refund. If you care to google "Christopher Whitnall" as a UK search other information will come to light that I won't comment on here. It's a real shame it's gone all pear-shaped. Oooops..looks bad from here on in.. ..fucking hell..
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top
Junior Member
Posts โข 2,486
Likes โข 4
November 2007
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Charidee Complete & A Big THANK YOU!!!, by bobbyt23 on Feb 22, 2008 16:52:55 GMT 1, I've just re-registered to make my feelings known on this issue as I have been personally involved in the auctions by winning one of them. I must say well done to you Harveyn in everything you've done and tried to do, I can understand why you can't continue given verbals attitude. I was lucky to get what I paid for (1 month after winning) and also luckily my money has been donated. Verbal never answered any of my emails and was a pain to deal with, I left no feedback as looking at his Diamond dealing account if I had given him poor feedback he'd of just been nasty back. Note that Verbals diamond dealing account is now closed and plenty of people are left with no diamonds and no refund. If you care to google "Christopher Whitnall" as a UK search other information will come to light that I won't comment on here. It's a real shame it's gone all pear-shaped. Oooops..looks bad from here on in.. ..f**king hell..
Confused.
EDIT- Not anymore. Just read the article. Whoopsie. That is not a good sign.
I've just re-registered to make my feelings known on this issue as I have been personally involved in the auctions by winning one of them. I must say well done to you Harveyn in everything you've done and tried to do, I can understand why you can't continue given verbals attitude. I was lucky to get what I paid for (1 month after winning) and also luckily my money has been donated. Verbal never answered any of my emails and was a pain to deal with, I left no feedback as looking at his Diamond dealing account if I had given him poor feedback he'd of just been nasty back. Note that Verbals diamond dealing account is now closed and plenty of people are left with no diamonds and no refund. If you care to google "Christopher Whitnall" as a UK search other information will come to light that I won't comment on here. It's a real shame it's gone all pear-shaped. Oooops..looks bad from here on in.. ..f**king hell.. Confused. EDIT- Not anymore. Just read the article. Whoopsie. That is not a good sign.
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Charidee Complete & A Big THANK YOU!!!, by daveanthony28 on Feb 22, 2008 16:56:24 GMT 1,
doesnt look like a good outcome will prevail after reading this
doesnt look like a good outcome will prevail after reading this
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spencerlee
New Member
Posts โข 853
Likes โข 27
May 2006
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Charidee Complete & A Big THANK YOU!!!, by spencerlee on Feb 22, 2008 16:56:55 GMT 1, Holy Fuck
Holy Fuck
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pezlow
Junior Member
Posts โข 5,388
Likes โข 254
January 2007
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Charidee Complete & A Big THANK YOU!!!, by pezlow on Feb 22, 2008 16:59:37 GMT 1, ps I think you should publish what you know about verbal. Why keep it a secret. It is a matter of public record and people are entitled to know who they are dealing with.
Done now. I think people had a right to know who they were dealing with. Well done CBL.
ps I think you should publish what you know about verbal. Why keep it a secret. It is a matter of public record and people are entitled to know who they are dealing with. Done now. I think people had a right to know who they were dealing with. Well done CBL.
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