pezlow
Junior Member
Posts โข 5,388
Likes โข 254
January 2007
|
Highest Sold in 10 Years Time..., by pezlow on Feb 10, 2009 15:08:46 GMT 1, An artist can still command high prices with little or no mainstream interest though silky. By way of example whilst Hirst steals all the YBA headlines there are other artists from that time who attract little or no press interest but still high prices at auction. Jenny Saville springs to mind in particular. Peter Doig would be another example of an artist who gets very little mainstream press interest yet his work sells from big bucks.
An artist can still command high prices with little or no mainstream interest though silky. By way of example whilst Hirst steals all the YBA headlines there are other artists from that time who attract little or no press interest but still high prices at auction. Jenny Saville springs to mind in particular. Peter Doig would be another example of an artist who gets very little mainstream press interest yet his work sells from big bucks.
|
|
|
Highest Sold in 10 Years Time..., by onemandown72 on Feb 10, 2009 15:22:02 GMT 1, Banksy / Neate in a close run thing
I'm veering slightly more towards Neate just over Banksy in this - with Parla running third between these 2.
Banksy / Neate in a close run thing I'm veering slightly more towards Neate just over Banksy in this - with Parla running third between these 2.
|
|
funster
Junior Member
Posts โข 2,256
Likes โข 0
October 2006
|
Highest Sold in 10 Years Time..., by funster on Feb 10, 2009 17:16:00 GMT 1, I think if Neate slows down and carefully picks how he takes on the next few years he could be at the very top, however if not he'll just be an 'also ran' - which would be a shame as he's got amazing talent.
I think if Neate slows down and carefully picks how he takes on the next few years he could be at the very top, however if not he'll just be an 'also ran' - which would be a shame as he's got amazing talent.
|
|
mike hunt
New Member
Posts โข 456
Likes โข 0
December 2006
|
Highest Sold in 10 Years Time..., by mike hunt on Feb 10, 2009 17:47:07 GMT 1, I think if Neate slows down and carefully picks how he takes on the next few years he could be at the very top, however if not he'll just be an 'also ran' - which would be a shame as he's got amazing talent.
Yea - Parla for me, because the people looking after him seem to be building in the right way. He's not categorised as a street artist so much as an artist. He's so different to the others - he could go all the way.
I think if Neate slows down and carefully picks how he takes on the next few years he could be at the very top, however if not he'll just be an 'also ran' - which would be a shame as he's got amazing talent. Yea - Parla for me, because the people looking after him seem to be building in the right way. He's not categorised as a street artist so much as an artist. He's so different to the others - he could go all the way.
|
|
loucastel
Junior Member
Posts โข 1,551
Likes โข 53
October 2007
|
Highest Sold in 10 Years Time..., by loucastel on Feb 10, 2009 18:22:51 GMT 1, "None of the above" ten years is no time at all in the art world, yet lots can change, perhaps one or two of Banksy' and Neate's work will still be valued as an example of the genre of it's time, but I personaly think there will be other artists who will emerge over time and out-shine them, as has been said in previous posts this is still in it's infancy as a recognised genre and artists are learning all the time.
"None of the above" ten years is no time at all in the art world, yet lots can change, perhaps one or two of Banksy' and Neate's work will still be valued as an example of the genre of it's time, but I personaly think there will be other artists who will emerge over time and out-shine them, as has been said in previous posts this is still in it's infancy as a recognised genre and artists are learning all the time.
|
|
|
Highest Sold in 10 Years Time..., by snausages on Feb 10, 2009 18:42:11 GMT 1, Which Fairey canvases are editioned? And, Faile is way too niche to ever get anywhere. I know several have and Faile too niche? Every artist is Niche, it's whether or not they capture something of our time or better yet are timeless and classic. IMO faile accomplishes this. But every artists on that list is extremely niche.
And as for the comment about Hirst, vs. Saville vs. Doig. It's not about mainstream press recognition it's about critical recognitionโmajor collectors don't dole out cash based on the number of comments in the Daily Post. Saville and Doig are two of the greatest painters of our time. And they are represented by some of the worlds premier galleries, they have accolades and awards out the arse, major museum exhibitions behind and in front of them.
I don't discount the idea that in 20 years things could transform and street art could be a very legitimate and accepted part of the art world but it's a bit of an outside shot. And Hirst etc. aren't going to be considered out of fashion old fogies. Nonsense. I work in the NY art world and I can tell you that most of the people in that world don't know and or even if you explain it to them they still don't give a damn about any of these artists.
I still find it absurd that some of these artists are commanding 100-200k for paintings. You can seriously get a canvas by artists already in major museum collections, artists represented by some of the worlds most respected galleries, with critical praise in some of the best art papers for that price range. Yet most of these people (except for Kaws) don't even have real gallery representation in the worlds biggest art market. It's stunning.
I see this outsider art world kind of like "third world foreign investment" it's the most untested and risky and can go to dizzying speculative heights but it usually takes the worst tumble in bad times, yet it still seems to me like people are expecting amazing things here.
Which Fairey canvases are editioned? And, Faile is way too niche to ever get anywhere. I know several have and Faile too niche? Every artist is Niche, it's whether or not they capture something of our time or better yet are timeless and classic. IMO faile accomplishes this. But every artists on that list is extremely niche. And as for the comment about Hirst, vs. Saville vs. Doig. It's not about mainstream press recognition it's about critical recognitionโmajor collectors don't dole out cash based on the number of comments in the Daily Post. Saville and Doig are two of the greatest painters of our time. And they are represented by some of the worlds premier galleries, they have accolades and awards out the arse, major museum exhibitions behind and in front of them. I don't discount the idea that in 20 years things could transform and street art could be a very legitimate and accepted part of the art world but it's a bit of an outside shot. And Hirst etc. aren't going to be considered out of fashion old fogies. Nonsense. I work in the NY art world and I can tell you that most of the people in that world don't know and or even if you explain it to them they still don't give a damn about any of these artists. I still find it absurd that some of these artists are commanding 100-200k for paintings. You can seriously get a canvas by artists already in major museum collections, artists represented by some of the worlds most respected galleries, with critical praise in some of the best art papers for that price range. Yet most of these people (except for Kaws) don't even have real gallery representation in the worlds biggest art market. It's stunning. I see this outsider art world kind of like "third world foreign investment" it's the most untested and risky and can go to dizzying speculative heights but it usually takes the worst tumble in bad times, yet it still seems to me like people are expecting amazing things here.
|
|
|
raiden
New Member
Posts โข 512
Likes โข 3
April 2008
|
Highest Sold in 10 Years Time..., by raiden on Feb 11, 2009 4:11:13 GMT 1, Hmmm... haven't commented much lately because I've been so broke, art I can't afford is the last thing I want to think about.
1) We haven't seen the low of the art market. The February auction I think are going to end up terrible.
2) Banksy seems like the obvious choice as the top of the top in terms of the stencil movement.
3) Yes, I think we are seeing a movement, but I don't agree that everyone who falls into the catchall term "Urban Art" necessarily should be considered part of this "movement."
I think the movement is distinctly outsider, street based, involves the forced democratization of art as a way of challenging perceptions - often at the expense of legitimacy - i.e. through vandalism.
As such, I think "Urban Art" is a useful term somewhat, but is more or less a marketing term that is supposed to be a big umbrella for lots of artists to get under and ride various coattails of people who will be looked back on as important to "The Movement."
I do find it funny how many artists have undertook "street pieces" so that they can fall into the world of "Urban Art" - yet I question their legitimacy. Its similar to the many recording artists in the 70s who put out disco albums, but had no business doing so. But bandwagons will be bandwagons.
4) I might actually take the field on this one. I think there are several artists we discuss on this board that might rapidly appreciate - almost all of which are toeing the line of "urban." I actually think some of the marginally urban artists may do better over the long run on an individual piece basis due to preferences of high end buyers.
5) Shepard, by my count, did 3-4 canvas editions of Obama. I see Shepards prices playing second fiddle to Banksy in the art world in ten years for lots of reasons, mostly the number of editions Shepard released and also the process that goes into Shepard's work.
I think Shepard is going to suffer from some prejudice against his methods of creating his work - namely heavy use of photoshop to plan his pieces. I personally have nothing wrong with this, and frankly, Banksy seems likely a photoshop planner too, but I do think Sheps prices will suffer disproportionately due to perceptions regarding "mix media" and how his pieces are assembled - versus artists who utilize more traditional paint brush on canvas. This is partly merited out by the current prices for Mark Ryden versus all Urban Artists. (He's selling works for $1M)
6) Snausages - good points. I think we got into it once about Shep, but you make some really good points concerning the legit art world - or should I say, the stuffy old money art world. Fact is though, these people are late adopters and I really do think Banksy and many others have the potential to break out big in this world - but there is a big question mark about how a movement that partly is predicated on the democratization of art can be co-opted by the establishment.
I will say that $100K for certain works in this market seems a more sustainable result of supply and demand than what I tend to see as the smoke and mirrors world of "big money" art, which seems to rely so much more on Rich Family #1 perceiving the same value as Rich Family #2. You're absolutely right that the "Old Money" system is more stable than the fadish "urban art" market, but I would contend that its far more based on perceived value, than actual supply and demand dictated values - simply because the general fan bases of some of these artists by far outstrips the stuffy Gegosian roster of artists.
7) Where's Cartrain on this list??? He's only 16! In ten years, think how much improvement he might exhibit?!? How can you bet against that!
Hmmm... haven't commented much lately because I've been so broke, art I can't afford is the last thing I want to think about.
1) We haven't seen the low of the art market. The February auction I think are going to end up terrible.
2) Banksy seems like the obvious choice as the top of the top in terms of the stencil movement.
3) Yes, I think we are seeing a movement, but I don't agree that everyone who falls into the catchall term "Urban Art" necessarily should be considered part of this "movement."
I think the movement is distinctly outsider, street based, involves the forced democratization of art as a way of challenging perceptions - often at the expense of legitimacy - i.e. through vandalism.
As such, I think "Urban Art" is a useful term somewhat, but is more or less a marketing term that is supposed to be a big umbrella for lots of artists to get under and ride various coattails of people who will be looked back on as important to "The Movement."
I do find it funny how many artists have undertook "street pieces" so that they can fall into the world of "Urban Art" - yet I question their legitimacy. Its similar to the many recording artists in the 70s who put out disco albums, but had no business doing so. But bandwagons will be bandwagons.
4) I might actually take the field on this one. I think there are several artists we discuss on this board that might rapidly appreciate - almost all of which are toeing the line of "urban." I actually think some of the marginally urban artists may do better over the long run on an individual piece basis due to preferences of high end buyers.
5) Shepard, by my count, did 3-4 canvas editions of Obama. I see Shepards prices playing second fiddle to Banksy in the art world in ten years for lots of reasons, mostly the number of editions Shepard released and also the process that goes into Shepard's work.
I think Shepard is going to suffer from some prejudice against his methods of creating his work - namely heavy use of photoshop to plan his pieces. I personally have nothing wrong with this, and frankly, Banksy seems likely a photoshop planner too, but I do think Sheps prices will suffer disproportionately due to perceptions regarding "mix media" and how his pieces are assembled - versus artists who utilize more traditional paint brush on canvas. This is partly merited out by the current prices for Mark Ryden versus all Urban Artists. (He's selling works for $1M)
6) Snausages - good points. I think we got into it once about Shep, but you make some really good points concerning the legit art world - or should I say, the stuffy old money art world. Fact is though, these people are late adopters and I really do think Banksy and many others have the potential to break out big in this world - but there is a big question mark about how a movement that partly is predicated on the democratization of art can be co-opted by the establishment.
I will say that $100K for certain works in this market seems a more sustainable result of supply and demand than what I tend to see as the smoke and mirrors world of "big money" art, which seems to rely so much more on Rich Family #1 perceiving the same value as Rich Family #2. You're absolutely right that the "Old Money" system is more stable than the fadish "urban art" market, but I would contend that its far more based on perceived value, than actual supply and demand dictated values - simply because the general fan bases of some of these artists by far outstrips the stuffy Gegosian roster of artists.
7) Where's Cartrain on this list??? He's only 16! In ten years, think how much improvement he might exhibit?!? How can you bet against that!
|
|
Francis
Junior Member
Posts โข 2,571
Likes โข 137
September 2007
|
Highest Sold in 10 Years Time..., by Francis on Feb 11, 2009 4:31:02 GMT 1, snausages, if you know of several, then name some.
raiden, you say you've seen 3-4 Obama canvases....show us one.
snausages, if you know of several, then name some.
raiden, you say you've seen 3-4 Obama canvases....show us one.
|
|
raiden
New Member
Posts โข 512
Likes โข 3
April 2008
|
Highest Sold in 10 Years Time..., by raiden on Feb 11, 2009 5:29:42 GMT 1, I didn't say I saw 3-4 Obama canvases, I said he did 3-4 "by my count." Just so I show I know what I'm talking about... I looked it up to be sure...
From Obeygiant.com...
"After Shepardโs initial feeling not to make a fine art piece of the OBAMA image, he thought about it and was presented with an opportunity to do something exceptional. When Shepard was asked by industry heavyweight, Russell Simmons, to donate a piece for his Rush Philanthropic Arts Foundation, he felt this was a worthy cause. The piece is being auctioned for the Art For Life Charity event."
At this point, Shep had done 3 total. There was the one that was auctioned off to private hands at this auction (This was as of late July 2008, when the pre-auction estimate for the work was a laughable $30K, and it ended up going for $108K, the most for any Shep wor by a mile, but which is a steal in hindsight) Additionally, there were 2 others, which I think toured the gallery scene a bit.
After that auction, is really when the "Hope" and "Progress" images took off - and for that matter Shep took off. I assume that the "Obama" image that ended up in the national portrait gallery is a separate 4th image because reports said he was commissioned to created it specifically for the portrait gallery.
So there....
That's 4 "fine art" canvases by my count.
Additionally, there are multiple "live art" collages Shep made of the Obama image, one of them being the one from the LA Victory Party - for example. I've seen pictures of others at stuff like "Manifest Hope" I don't know what eventually happened to these paste up event collages or how many there are. These were mostly done on board or wood - but I'm sure someone grabbed one and hung onto it.
Shep was always pretty vocal about wanting to refrain from doing lots of Canvases of the Obama image - partly because he thought it lessened the democratization of the image - so I doubt he did a ton more - but I could be wrong and I have no idea how many ended up in private hands - possibly only 1 or 2. Based on his response to the AP complaint, supposedly Shep didn't make any money directly from the image - so I don't think he did a separate private canvas offering for $200K to collectors.
Accurate enough for you? Or shall I ask Shep the numbers next time I run into him?
I didn't say I saw 3-4 Obama canvases, I said he did 3-4 "by my count." Just so I show I know what I'm talking about... I looked it up to be sure...
From Obeygiant.com...
"After Shepardโs initial feeling not to make a fine art piece of the OBAMA image, he thought about it and was presented with an opportunity to do something exceptional. When Shepard was asked by industry heavyweight, Russell Simmons, to donate a piece for his Rush Philanthropic Arts Foundation, he felt this was a worthy cause. The piece is being auctioned for the Art For Life Charity event."
At this point, Shep had done 3 total. There was the one that was auctioned off to private hands at this auction (This was as of late July 2008, when the pre-auction estimate for the work was a laughable $30K, and it ended up going for $108K, the most for any Shep wor by a mile, but which is a steal in hindsight) Additionally, there were 2 others, which I think toured the gallery scene a bit.
After that auction, is really when the "Hope" and "Progress" images took off - and for that matter Shep took off. I assume that the "Obama" image that ended up in the national portrait gallery is a separate 4th image because reports said he was commissioned to created it specifically for the portrait gallery.
So there....
That's 4 "fine art" canvases by my count.
Additionally, there are multiple "live art" collages Shep made of the Obama image, one of them being the one from the LA Victory Party - for example. I've seen pictures of others at stuff like "Manifest Hope" I don't know what eventually happened to these paste up event collages or how many there are. These were mostly done on board or wood - but I'm sure someone grabbed one and hung onto it.
Shep was always pretty vocal about wanting to refrain from doing lots of Canvases of the Obama image - partly because he thought it lessened the democratization of the image - so I doubt he did a ton more - but I could be wrong and I have no idea how many ended up in private hands - possibly only 1 or 2. Based on his response to the AP complaint, supposedly Shep didn't make any money directly from the image - so I don't think he did a separate private canvas offering for $200K to collectors.
Accurate enough for you? Or shall I ask Shep the numbers next time I run into him?
|
|
raiden
New Member
Posts โข 512
Likes โข 3
April 2008
|
Highest Sold in 10 Years Time..., by raiden on Feb 11, 2009 5:30:33 GMT 1,
|
|
pezlow
Junior Member
Posts โข 5,388
Likes โข 254
January 2007
|
Highest Sold in 10 Years Time..., by pezlow on Feb 11, 2009 10:08:22 GMT 1, And as for the comment about Hirst, vs. Saville vs. Doig. It's not about mainstream press recognition it's about critical recognitionโmajor collectors don't dole out cash based on the number of comments in the Daily Post. Saville and Doig are two of the greatest painters of our time. And they are represented by some of the worlds premier galleries, they have accolades and awards out the arse, major museum exhibitions behind and in front of them.
I appreciate that. My comment was to illustrate the point that getting widespread press attention and high prices at auction are 2 entirely seperate things.
Yes but the art market changes all the time. After all the White Cube gallery only opened 15 years ago. It achieved success through promoting and supporting the YBA's as a movement. Now they are a blue chip, branded gallery. 15 years ago you would have been saying that Hirst et al didn't have "real" gallery representation whatever that means.
The YBA movement arose out a group of like-minded individuals who hung around together as a group, were friends, promoted each other, held group shows that attracted a lot of publicity, did not exhibit with mainstream galleries etc. I see very direct parallels between this movement and them. Except I would argue that this movement has an even greater cohesion and focus.
Why shouldn't we expect amazing things? After all if you are on this board you are here because you love the art being produced by this movement. I go to Art Fairs, galleries, museums etc and read a lot about art on the internet and through books and magazines. And whilst there is a lot of good contemporary art out there NOTHING excites me as much as this movement. Of course time will tell but there is no reason at all why the artists we talk about and love can't achieve greatness.
And as for the comment about Hirst, vs. Saville vs. Doig. It's not about mainstream press recognition it's about critical recognitionโmajor collectors don't dole out cash based on the number of comments in the Daily Post. Saville and Doig are two of the greatest painters of our time. And they are represented by some of the worlds premier galleries, they have accolades and awards out the arse, major museum exhibitions behind and in front of them. I appreciate that. My comment was to illustrate the point that getting widespread press attention and high prices at auction are 2 entirely seperate things. Yes but the art market changes all the time. After all the White Cube gallery only opened 15 years ago. It achieved success through promoting and supporting the YBA's as a movement. Now they are a blue chip, branded gallery. 15 years ago you would have been saying that Hirst et al didn't have "real" gallery representation whatever that means. The YBA movement arose out a group of like-minded individuals who hung around together as a group, were friends, promoted each other, held group shows that attracted a lot of publicity, did not exhibit with mainstream galleries etc. I see very direct parallels between this movement and them. Except I would argue that this movement has an even greater cohesion and focus. Why shouldn't we expect amazing things? After all if you are on this board you are here because you love the art being produced by this movement. I go to Art Fairs, galleries, museums etc and read a lot about art on the internet and through books and magazines. And whilst there is a lot of good contemporary art out there NOTHING excites me as much as this movement. Of course time will tell but there is no reason at all why the artists we talk about and love can't achieve greatness.
|
|
Simococo
Junior Member
Posts โข 3,147
Likes โข 372
April 2007
|
Highest Sold in 10 Years Time..., by Simococo on Feb 11, 2009 10:11:12 GMT 1, great post pezlow
great post pezlow
|
|
|
Highest Sold in 10 Years Time..., by sand on Feb 11, 2009 10:30:48 GMT 1, I think to much is made of 'value' on this forum.
Like many have said before, buy what you like and can afford. Enjoy what you have on your walls. Commission new artists you like. Visit galleries. Enjoy the art.
No one knows what will happen in 10 years time and that's part of the fun.
But to answer the question - Banksy, Shepard Fairey, Kaws, Barry Mcgee, Jose Parla all excite me and I can see there work still being in high demand in 10 years time. Whilst others will simply fade into mediocrity.
I think to much is made of 'value' on this forum.
Like many have said before, buy what you like and can afford. Enjoy what you have on your walls. Commission new artists you like. Visit galleries. Enjoy the art.
No one knows what will happen in 10 years time and that's part of the fun.
But to answer the question - Banksy, Shepard Fairey, Kaws, Barry Mcgee, Jose Parla all excite me and I can see there work still being in high demand in 10 years time. Whilst others will simply fade into mediocrity.
|
|
|
Highest Sold in 10 Years Time..., by mose on Feb 11, 2009 11:39:53 GMT 1, I didn't say I saw 3-4 Obama canvases, I said he did 3-4 "by my count." Just so I show I know what I'm talking about... I looked it up to be sure... Accurate enough for you? Or shall I ask Shep the numbers next time I run into him?
Raiden, those aren't canvas pieces. The ones you are talking about are on paper.
I didn't say I saw 3-4 Obama canvases, I said he did 3-4 "by my count." Just so I show I know what I'm talking about... I looked it up to be sure... Accurate enough for you? Or shall I ask Shep the numbers next time I run into him? Raiden, those aren't canvas pieces. The ones you are talking about are on paper.
|
|
|
robinbanks
Junior Member
Posts โข 1,319
Likes โข 2
October 2007
|
Highest Sold in 10 Years Time..., by robinbanks on Feb 11, 2009 12:33:11 GMT 1, I'm a little surprised that no one has mentioned Alexandre Farto aka Vhils. In my opinion he has a lot more talent than many of those names on the list and is still very young. In ten years who knows what he could achieve.
He is very much part of the "street" scene but has a fine art background, which could mean he is more readily accepted by the old school art collectors clique.
Ten years is a hell of a long time though, and to be perfectly honest, anything could happen. I would however, be very, very surprised if anyone out-performs Banksy in the next decade. His place in art history is virtually guaranteed now - even if it only proves to be a footnote. I honestly think Shep will fade into the background - once the hype machine for his Mr President poster finally runs out of gas.
I'm a little surprised that no one has mentioned Alexandre Farto aka Vhils. In my opinion he has a lot more talent than many of those names on the list and is still very young. In ten years who knows what he could achieve.
He is very much part of the "street" scene but has a fine art background, which could mean he is more readily accepted by the old school art collectors clique.
Ten years is a hell of a long time though, and to be perfectly honest, anything could happen. I would however, be very, very surprised if anyone out-performs Banksy in the next decade. His place in art history is virtually guaranteed now - even if it only proves to be a footnote. I honestly think Shep will fade into the background - once the hype machine for his Mr President poster finally runs out of gas.
|
|
|
Highest Sold in 10 Years Time..., by manty on Feb 11, 2009 12:44:54 GMT 1, I wish I knew enough to have a comment :-)
I wish I knew enough to have a comment :-)
|
|
edcase
Junior Member
Posts โข 1,151
Likes โข 84
July 2008
|
Highest Sold in 10 Years Time..., by edcase on Feb 11, 2009 12:50:17 GMT 1, Herakut anyone?
Seriously.
Herakut anyone?
Seriously.
|
|
motor
Junior Member
Posts โข 1,836
Likes โข 409
December 2006
|
Highest Sold in 10 Years Time..., by motor on Feb 11, 2009 12:55:34 GMT 1, Herakut anyone? Seriously.
Seriously? As it stands now - No way. IMO
Herakut anyone? Seriously. Seriously? As it stands now - No way. IMO
|
|
edcase
Junior Member
Posts โข 1,151
Likes โข 84
July 2008
|
Highest Sold in 10 Years Time..., by edcase on Feb 11, 2009 13:12:51 GMT 1, Hang on, this thread isn't about now? It's about 10 years time.
I spend more time looking at my Herakut than the rest of my collection put together, and it is the piece that all of my non-collector friends make the most positive comments about. From standing in the Gallery talking to Frankie during the show, it was also very telling the amount and type of people who were passers by but who were naturally drawn into the gallery - all walks of life. Of all of the artists in the current 'scene' they are in my opinion one of the best placed to 'crossover'.
Their street work is also amazing, and true to their beginnings not 'bandwagon jumping'.
Hang on, this thread isn't about now? It's about 10 years time.
I spend more time looking at my Herakut than the rest of my collection put together, and it is the piece that all of my non-collector friends make the most positive comments about. From standing in the Gallery talking to Frankie during the show, it was also very telling the amount and type of people who were passers by but who were naturally drawn into the gallery - all walks of life. Of all of the artists in the current 'scene' they are in my opinion one of the best placed to 'crossover'.
Their street work is also amazing, and true to their beginnings not 'bandwagon jumping'.
|
|
|
Highest Sold in 10 Years Time..., by manty on Feb 11, 2009 13:13:36 GMT 1, Further to my last glib comment
It is quite obvious to me that regardless of the great talent of an artist if they havnt got the right representation, ie gallery has great contacts with the right type of media, then they are never going to become 'great'.
I would imagine alot of the bigger collectors are led to alot of purchases through dealing with the high level galleries who have the right influence in the right places.
What galleries support our kind of artists? low level, well meaning businesses, but none, not even Laz is in the second division, let alone premier league.
Having said that Neate will shine through when he is shown to a larger audience, remember he has not had a show outside the uk since he was picked up by Elms, providing of course Elms or Adam picks the right Gallery to support him in the good ol' US of A
Further to my last glib comment
It is quite obvious to me that regardless of the great talent of an artist if they havnt got the right representation, ie gallery has great contacts with the right type of media, then they are never going to become 'great'.
I would imagine alot of the bigger collectors are led to alot of purchases through dealing with the high level galleries who have the right influence in the right places.
What galleries support our kind of artists? low level, well meaning businesses, but none, not even Laz is in the second division, let alone premier league.
Having said that Neate will shine through when he is shown to a larger audience, remember he has not had a show outside the uk since he was picked up by Elms, providing of course Elms or Adam picks the right Gallery to support him in the good ol' US of A
|
|
pezlow
Junior Member
Posts โข 5,388
Likes โข 254
January 2007
|
Highest Sold in 10 Years Time..., by pezlow on Feb 11, 2009 13:25:55 GMT 1, True manty but who is to say that Laz won't be a premier league gallery in 10 years time specialising in this sort of work. After all as per my point above the white cube gallery only started 15 years ago.
Besides there is nothing to stop some of these artists being picked up by premier league galleries. Rumours have abounded for some time about gagosian picking up faile. Whilst I don't these rumours are likely to come true yet it is highly possible that they may do so in years to come. Very few artists step out of the unknown and become superstars overnight. It takes time for them to build up to that.
True manty but who is to say that Laz won't be a premier league gallery in 10 years time specialising in this sort of work. After all as per my point above the white cube gallery only started 15 years ago.
Besides there is nothing to stop some of these artists being picked up by premier league galleries. Rumours have abounded for some time about gagosian picking up faile. Whilst I don't these rumours are likely to come true yet it is highly possible that they may do so in years to come. Very few artists step out of the unknown and become superstars overnight. It takes time for them to build up to that.
|
|
|
Highest Sold in 10 Years Time..., by mose on Feb 11, 2009 13:27:12 GMT 1, Ten years is a hell of a long time though, and to be perfectly honest, anything could happen. I would however, be very, very surprised if anyone out-performs Banksy in the next decade. His place in art history is virtually guaranteed now - even if it only proves to be a footnote. I honestly think Shep will fade into the background - once the hype machine for his Mr President poster finally runs out of gas.
Threads like this remind me of the gulf between American views and our scene, vs. the UK scene, vs. the 'world' scene.
Banksy, in the US, is the far more likely to fade into the background. His name is not on everyones lips, he is not the revered icon he is in the UK, and we just don't have that cultural attachment to him that UK'ers do.
Fairey, on the other hand, has been part of the US fabric for two decades now. He has risen slowly and surely, his artwork and style have woven their way in to the mainstream, and he has become a cultural icon and legend. UK'ers, i reckon, just wouldn't have the connection with him because 'andre the giant has a posse' just wasn't part of your lives like it was anyone who lived through the 1990's in the US. UK'ers largely know Shepard Fairey the artist and not the Obey Giant campaign that so many US'ers experienced.
Personally, I give much credit for Banksy's rise to the post-9/11 financial shift from New York to London. He was became the hip artist of a very moneyed era. It'll be interesting to see over the next 10 years, with the likely twists and turns the world takes, what will play out. What parallels will be seen with the early-to-mid 1980's scene in NYC? Not too many people got out of that one unscathed, and even the hottest artists went very, very cold after a while. Some forever.
Another question I ask, had 9-11 not happened, would this be the Dash Snow forum, with the vast majority of posters based in NYC?
Ten years is a hell of a long time though, and to be perfectly honest, anything could happen. I would however, be very, very surprised if anyone out-performs Banksy in the next decade. His place in art history is virtually guaranteed now - even if it only proves to be a footnote. I honestly think Shep will fade into the background - once the hype machine for his Mr President poster finally runs out of gas. Threads like this remind me of the gulf between American views and our scene, vs. the UK scene, vs. the 'world' scene. Banksy, in the US, is the far more likely to fade into the background. His name is not on everyones lips, he is not the revered icon he is in the UK, and we just don't have that cultural attachment to him that UK'ers do. Fairey, on the other hand, has been part of the US fabric for two decades now. He has risen slowly and surely, his artwork and style have woven their way in to the mainstream, and he has become a cultural icon and legend. UK'ers, i reckon, just wouldn't have the connection with him because 'andre the giant has a posse' just wasn't part of your lives like it was anyone who lived through the 1990's in the US. UK'ers largely know Shepard Fairey the artist and not the Obey Giant campaign that so many US'ers experienced. Personally, I give much credit for Banksy's rise to the post-9/11 financial shift from New York to London. He was became the hip artist of a very moneyed era. It'll be interesting to see over the next 10 years, with the likely twists and turns the world takes, what will play out. What parallels will be seen with the early-to-mid 1980's scene in NYC? Not too many people got out of that one unscathed, and even the hottest artists went very, very cold after a while. Some forever. Another question I ask, had 9-11 not happened, would this be the Dash Snow forum, with the vast majority of posters based in NYC?
|
|
|
edcase
Junior Member
Posts โข 1,151
Likes โข 84
July 2008
|
Highest Sold in 10 Years Time..., by edcase on Feb 11, 2009 13:30:19 GMT 1, Let's not forget, none of us are getting any younger. 'Our' generation (and I use the metric of the typical age and appearance of the majority of people I see at shows, I know obviously that there are significant collectors on this forum and beyond who fall way outside of this category) is getting older and more comfortable and more interested in collecting art, and I really believe that over the next 10 to 15 years that we will see significantly increased crossover / blurring of boundaries, which will naturally see certain artists breaking through.
Street art is increasingly important the world over, some people sometimes get snow blinded by Shoreditch. Manty makes a very good point about 'what kind of galleries support our kind of artists'... however what interests me is 'what kind of gallery support do our kind of artists want.'
It's still very early days in the grand scheme of things for any kind of representation of 'outsider art' via galleries, and it's going to be very interesting to see the kind of moves which are made even in the next 3-5 years.
Let's not forget, none of us are getting any younger. 'Our' generation (and I use the metric of the typical age and appearance of the majority of people I see at shows, I know obviously that there are significant collectors on this forum and beyond who fall way outside of this category) is getting older and more comfortable and more interested in collecting art, and I really believe that over the next 10 to 15 years that we will see significantly increased crossover / blurring of boundaries, which will naturally see certain artists breaking through.
Street art is increasingly important the world over, some people sometimes get snow blinded by Shoreditch. Manty makes a very good point about 'what kind of galleries support our kind of artists'... however what interests me is 'what kind of gallery support do our kind of artists want.'
It's still very early days in the grand scheme of things for any kind of representation of 'outsider art' via galleries, and it's going to be very interesting to see the kind of moves which are made even in the next 3-5 years.
|
|
pezlow
Junior Member
Posts โข 5,388
Likes โข 254
January 2007
|
Highest Sold in 10 Years Time..., by pezlow on Feb 11, 2009 13:52:55 GMT 1, Personally, I give much credit for Banksy's rise to the post-9/11 financial shift from New York to London. He was became the hip artist of a very moneyed era. It'll be interesting to see over the next 10 years, with the likely twists and turns the world takes, what will play out. What parallels will be seen with the early-to-mid 1980's scene in NYC? Not too many people got out of that one unscathed, and even the hottest artists went very, very cold after a while. Some forever. Another question I ask, had 9-11 not happened, would this be the Dash Snow forum, with the vast majority of posters based in NYC?
I agree with you that Banksy is a mainly UK based phenomenon but on that basis cannot agree that his rise has anything to do with 9-11. Your argument seems to be based on the premise that 9-11 caused a shift in the financial services market from New York to London and that that triggered a chain of wealthy bankers who then bought up Banksy's art.
It doesn't wash with me and is a pretty american-centric view of things. It requires proof that:
1) London benefited financially from 9-11 2) It is people in finance that have bought in to banksy and caused the rising price of his work
I don't think either of those two issues are proved. London has been the financial centre of europe for some time, long before 9-11. If anything with the huge concentration of insurers in the london marketplace who has a significant exposure to 9-11 I would say it had the effect of draining money out of London.
Furthermore though it is de rigour to write off every high end purchaser of Banksy's work as being City boys with a big bonus I actually see his main demographic as being people from more creative industries. This is borne out by the collectors I have met over here.
Personally, I give much credit for Banksy's rise to the post-9/11 financial shift from New York to London. He was became the hip artist of a very moneyed era. It'll be interesting to see over the next 10 years, with the likely twists and turns the world takes, what will play out. What parallels will be seen with the early-to-mid 1980's scene in NYC? Not too many people got out of that one unscathed, and even the hottest artists went very, very cold after a while. Some forever. Another question I ask, had 9-11 not happened, would this be the Dash Snow forum, with the vast majority of posters based in NYC? I agree with you that Banksy is a mainly UK based phenomenon but on that basis cannot agree that his rise has anything to do with 9-11. Your argument seems to be based on the premise that 9-11 caused a shift in the financial services market from New York to London and that that triggered a chain of wealthy bankers who then bought up Banksy's art. It doesn't wash with me and is a pretty american-centric view of things. It requires proof that: 1) London benefited financially from 9-11 2) It is people in finance that have bought in to banksy and caused the rising price of his work I don't think either of those two issues are proved. London has been the financial centre of europe for some time, long before 9-11. If anything with the huge concentration of insurers in the london marketplace who has a significant exposure to 9-11 I would say it had the effect of draining money out of London. Furthermore though it is de rigour to write off every high end purchaser of Banksy's work as being City boys with a big bonus I actually see his main demographic as being people from more creative industries. This is borne out by the collectors I have met over here.
|
|
|
Highest Sold in 10 Years Time..., by wiz on Feb 11, 2009 13:58:45 GMT 1, I reckon its all about educated / uneducated guesses and good or bad luck depending on allsorts of different forces and influences. I started collecting Design and Art works properly in the early eighties, bought some nice stuff and some duffers since then but have always had a laugh and enjoyed it, made some money on those i have sold as well as lost some now and again. Ten years ago i was a mere 60 odd and worried about getting older (ha) and in ten years from now i will be 80 odd and if im still around i will be stone bonkers and wont know which hole to eat with! but if i lost everything i have tomorrow then i have still had a good time so wouldnt grumble.
I reckon its all about educated / uneducated guesses and good or bad luck depending on allsorts of different forces and influences. I started collecting Design and Art works properly in the early eighties, bought some nice stuff and some duffers since then but have always had a laugh and enjoyed it, made some money on those i have sold as well as lost some now and again. Ten years ago i was a mere 60 odd and worried about getting older (ha) and in ten years from now i will be 80 odd and if im still around i will be stone bonkers and wont know which hole to eat with! but if i lost everything i have tomorrow then i have still had a good time so wouldnt grumble.
|
|
darrenrapley
Junior Member
Posts โข 1,858
Likes โข 229
June 2008
|
Highest Sold in 10 Years Time..., by darrenrapley on Feb 11, 2009 14:00:27 GMT 1, Hear hear
Hear hear
|
|
|
Highest Sold in 10 Years Time..., by Guest on Feb 11, 2009 14:07:47 GMT 1, well said wiz, buy what you like and enjoy it.
well said wiz, buy what you like and enjoy it.
|
|
howlinjack
New Member
Posts โข 615
Likes โข 55
July 2006
|
Highest Sold in 10 Years Time..., by howlinjack on Feb 11, 2009 14:09:59 GMT 1, totally agree mr wiz. well put.
totally agree mr wiz. well put.
|
|
motor
Junior Member
Posts โข 1,836
Likes โข 409
December 2006
|
Highest Sold in 10 Years Time..., by motor on Feb 11, 2009 14:11:41 GMT 1, Hang on, this thread isn't about now? It's about 10 years time.I spend more time looking at my Herakut than the rest of my collection put together, and it is the piece that all of my non-collector friends make the most positive comments about. From standing in the Gallery talking to Frankie during the show, it was also very telling the amount and type of people who were passers by but who were naturally drawn into the gallery - all walks of life. Of all of the artists in the current 'scene' they are in my opinion one of the best placed to 'crossover'. Their street work is also amazing, and true to their beginnings not 'bandwagon jumping'.
Edcase, you're right anything can happen in 10 years time and I don't want this thread to turn into pissing contest.
I consider Herakut one of the talented artists mentioned on this board and very pleasing on the eye. However do you consider their art groundbreaking, progressive, timeless? I don't hence my current skepticism toward Herakut. But who knows.
Hang on, this thread isn't about now? It's about 10 years time.I spend more time looking at my Herakut than the rest of my collection put together, and it is the piece that all of my non-collector friends make the most positive comments about. From standing in the Gallery talking to Frankie during the show, it was also very telling the amount and type of people who were passers by but who were naturally drawn into the gallery - all walks of life. Of all of the artists in the current 'scene' they are in my opinion one of the best placed to 'crossover'. Their street work is also amazing, and true to their beginnings not 'bandwagon jumping'. Edcase, you're right anything can happen in 10 years time and I don't want this thread to turn into pissing contest. I consider Herakut one of the talented artists mentioned on this board and very pleasing on the eye. However do you consider their art groundbreaking, progressive, timeless? I don't hence my current skepticism toward Herakut. But who knows.
|
|
|
Highest Sold in 10 Years Time..., by Guest on Feb 11, 2009 14:18:56 GMT 1, Hang on, this thread isn't about now? It's about 10 years time.I spend more time looking at my Herakut than the rest of my collection put together, and it is the piece that all of my non-collector friends make the most positive comments about. From standing in the Gallery talking to Frankie during the show, it was also very telling the amount and type of people who were passers by but who were naturally drawn into the gallery - all walks of life. Of all of the artists in the current 'scene' they are in my opinion one of the best placed to 'crossover'. Their street work is also amazing, and true to their beginnings not 'bandwagon jumping'. Edcase, you're right anything can happen in 10 years time and I don't want this thread to turn into pissing contest. I consider Herakut one of the talented artists mentioned on this board and very pleasing on the eye. However do you consider their art groundbreaking, progressive, timeless? I don't hence my current skepticism toward Herakut. But who knows.
I think the most important factor is their unique style of working. The work is very recognizable, and that goes a long way.
Hang on, this thread isn't about now? It's about 10 years time.I spend more time looking at my Herakut than the rest of my collection put together, and it is the piece that all of my non-collector friends make the most positive comments about. From standing in the Gallery talking to Frankie during the show, it was also very telling the amount and type of people who were passers by but who were naturally drawn into the gallery - all walks of life. Of all of the artists in the current 'scene' they are in my opinion one of the best placed to 'crossover'. Their street work is also amazing, and true to their beginnings not 'bandwagon jumping'. Edcase, you're right anything can happen in 10 years time and I don't want this thread to turn into pissing contest. I consider Herakut one of the talented artists mentioned on this board and very pleasing on the eye. However do you consider their art groundbreaking, progressive, timeless? I don't hence my current skepticism toward Herakut. But who knows. I think the most important factor is their unique style of working. The work is very recognizable, and that goes a long way.
|
|