silvermyn
Junior Member
Posts • 1,611
Likes • 781
April 2008
|
|
|
|
silvermyn
Junior Member
Posts • 1,611
Likes • 781
April 2008
|
Brexit
Sept 29, 2021 9:47:31 GMT 1
via mobile
Brexit, by silvermyn on Sept 29, 2021 9:47:31 GMT 1, the forum's brexit cheerleaders are very quiet these days.
can't think why...
They are way too busy staring at the giant Union Jack flags behind cabinet members every time they are on the news.
Anyway, you know what they say about ostriches.
the forum's brexit cheerleaders are very quiet these days.
can't think why... They are way too busy staring at the giant Union Jack flags behind cabinet members every time they are on the news. Anyway, you know what they say about ostriches.
|
|
silvermyn
Junior Member
Posts • 1,611
Likes • 781
April 2008
|
Banksy Signature - Barcode, by silvermyn on Sept 21, 2021 21:27:10 GMT 1, Back then, I'm pretty sure he signed them as and when they were purchased.
If he had a pen on the day, it would be signed in pen. Otherwise a pencil. I'm just relieved that there wasn't any lipstick to hand.
Back then, I'm pretty sure he signed them as and when they were purchased.
If he had a pen on the day, it would be signed in pen. Otherwise a pencil. I'm just relieved that there wasn't any lipstick to hand.
|
|
silvermyn
Junior Member
Posts • 1,611
Likes • 781
April 2008
|
AP DN
Sept 15, 2021 21:54:22 GMT 1
via mobile
AP DN, by silvermyn on Sept 15, 2021 21:54:22 GMT 1, there's a Barcode on sotheby's right now....should the DN mistake that Pest Controlled made be a big deal? So they numbered two the same on that lot.....if it affects price what do you think it would go for if it didn't have DN - what % more you think? it's still pest controlled, signed and in good condition...last few auction results were over 100k pound for barcode...if someone can get this for 70k pound probably a good deal? no idea...
I'm a bit nerdy so I find this sort of thing quite interesting.
The one currently on at Sotheby's is marked 47/150 DN. It's not marked AP/DN, just DN. That calls into question whether the signed Barcode is indeed an edition of only 150 prints. I would say that unless there is an entire separate edition of 150 signed DNs, then we have to presume that there are at least 151 of the signed prints in the edition including this DN. There is a separate AP edition (if memory serves there were only 2 in the AP edition and they were on a much wider sheet).
We will probably never know how many DNs there are and therefore how many prints there were in the signed edition. For all we know PC could still be issuing DNs for VIPs/friends, but that's just the cynical side of my mind in action rather than based on anything I've seen or heard. However, without a definitive catalogue raisonne I would say it is impossible for the market to be certain.
Will the DN affect the value of this print? I would think not. I suspect the market is driven by condition and authenticity. No two prints will be in the same condition, so if this is a good one then why get hung up on it being a DN? I think I'd be more concerned about having a regular print claiming to be from an edition of 150, knowing full well that with the duplicates there are more than 150 in the edition.
I suspect that most editions have been affected by this issue but prices seem unaffected by the lack of certainty around the true edition size. People picking on the DN being a problem IMHO are really missing the point of the wider issue with the edition size.
there's a Barcode on sotheby's right now....should the DN mistake that Pest Controlled made be a big deal? So they numbered two the same on that lot.....if it affects price what do you think it would go for if it didn't have DN - what % more you think? it's still pest controlled, signed and in good condition...last few auction results were over 100k pound for barcode...if someone can get this for 70k pound probably a good deal? no idea... I'm a bit nerdy so I find this sort of thing quite interesting. The one currently on at Sotheby's is marked 47/150 DN. It's not marked AP/DN, just DN. That calls into question whether the signed Barcode is indeed an edition of only 150 prints. I would say that unless there is an entire separate edition of 150 signed DNs, then we have to presume that there are at least 151 of the signed prints in the edition including this DN. There is a separate AP edition (if memory serves there were only 2 in the AP edition and they were on a much wider sheet). We will probably never know how many DNs there are and therefore how many prints there were in the signed edition. For all we know PC could still be issuing DNs for VIPs/friends, but that's just the cynical side of my mind in action rather than based on anything I've seen or heard. However, without a definitive catalogue raisonne I would say it is impossible for the market to be certain. Will the DN affect the value of this print? I would think not. I suspect the market is driven by condition and authenticity. No two prints will be in the same condition, so if this is a good one then why get hung up on it being a DN? I think I'd be more concerned about having a regular print claiming to be from an edition of 150, knowing full well that with the duplicates there are more than 150 in the edition. I suspect that most editions have been affected by this issue but prices seem unaffected by the lack of certainty around the true edition size. People picking on the DN being a problem IMHO are really missing the point of the wider issue with the edition size.
|
|
silvermyn
Junior Member
Posts • 1,611
Likes • 781
April 2008
|
Banksy • Girl With Red Balloon Print, by silvermyn on Aug 2, 2021 14:33:37 GMT 1,
This is not the first time this particularly print has been listed recently with the same photos. I recall somebody commenting on one of the photos having Hang Up paper in the background.
Smellys whiffy and I would avoid it like the proverbial.
This is not the first time this particularly print has been listed recently with the same photos. I recall somebody commenting on one of the photos having Hang Up paper in the background. Smellys whiffy and I would avoid it like the proverbial.
|
|
|
silvermyn
Junior Member
Posts • 1,611
Likes • 781
April 2008
|
Euros long shot - any spare final tickets fir sale?, by silvermyn on Jul 11, 2021 17:24:22 GMT 1, I've heard that Kane and Sterling are heading straight out to Japan after the match to join the English Olympic Diving team
Tell me about it. They've single handedly ruined the beautiful game
I've heard that Kane and Sterling are heading straight out to Japan after the match to join the English Olympic Diving team Tell me about it. They've single handedly ruined the beautiful game
|
|
silvermyn
Junior Member
Posts • 1,611
Likes • 781
April 2008
|
Euros long shot - any spare final tickets fir sale?, by silvermyn on Jul 11, 2021 17:08:51 GMT 1,
I've heard that Kane and Sterling are heading straight out to Japan after the match to join the English Olympic Diving team
I've heard that Kane and Sterling are heading straight out to Japan after the match to join the English Olympic Diving team
|
|
silvermyn
Junior Member
Posts • 1,611
Likes • 781
April 2008
|
Banksy VIP Only Prints, by silvermyn on Jul 5, 2021 23:07:04 GMT 1, My understanding is that the Modern Multiples prints that were signed for the Barely Legal show in LA were only given to VIPs. Not sure about the signed sets but I believe the signed prints outside of sets went to VIPs.
There were not that many of the signed LA prints, a handful of each perhaps.
My understanding is that the Modern Multiples prints that were signed for the Barely Legal show in LA were only given to VIPs. Not sure about the signed sets but I believe the signed prints outside of sets went to VIPs.
There were not that many of the signed LA prints, a handful of each perhaps.
|
|
silvermyn
Junior Member
Posts • 1,611
Likes • 781
April 2008
|
Banksy • Napalm Print, by silvermyn on Jun 23, 2021 17:27:07 GMT 1, Hi adamthecollector....I'm not entirely sure this is considered his 'worst'..I feel more like 'underrated'. I personally think 'applause' or 'sale ends' would be in this category...together with 'flags'...but that's just my opinion. Another reason why I think it is so underrated is that after seeing the full size canvas of this many years ago at The Serpentine..you got an amazing extra sense of its beauty and meaning....it was very powerful and quite honestly, incredibly moving. I think Damien Hirst was/is the owner...it was HUGE....and quite glorious in the flesh..I love mine to pieces...but now feel it's wrong to be 'hidden away' for so long.....it's time to be enjoyed by someone else.
Maybe "worst" isn't quite the right expression by adam but both the Napalm and QV are incredibly wall unfriendly. Probably why you have them in a portfolio, right?
As a single man I had no problem with my signed QV being on the dining room wall. Mates loved it but girlfriends were a bit "meh" about it. My parents f*ing hated it! She's gone now, sadly. With kids now neither would sit well on the walls.
If I had a man cave, I'd be all over these. The smaller edition Banksy/Hirst signed version of Napalm would be the one I'd really like but they are harder to come by.
Good luck with the sales. Mint ones must be few and far between especially from the original purchaser.
Hi adamthecollector....I'm not entirely sure this is considered his 'worst'..I feel more like 'underrated'. I personally think 'applause' or 'sale ends' would be in this category...together with 'flags'...but that's just my opinion. Another reason why I think it is so underrated is that after seeing the full size canvas of this many years ago at The Serpentine..you got an amazing extra sense of its beauty and meaning....it was very powerful and quite honestly, incredibly moving. I think Damien Hirst was/is the owner...it was HUGE....and quite glorious in the flesh..I love mine to pieces...but now feel it's wrong to be 'hidden away' for so long.....it's time to be enjoyed by someone else. Maybe "worst" isn't quite the right expression by adam but both the Napalm and QV are incredibly wall unfriendly. Probably why you have them in a portfolio, right? As a single man I had no problem with my signed QV being on the dining room wall. Mates loved it but girlfriends were a bit "meh" about it. My parents f*ing hated it! She's gone now, sadly. With kids now neither would sit well on the walls. If I had a man cave, I'd be all over these. The smaller edition Banksy/Hirst signed version of Napalm would be the one I'd really like but they are harder to come by. Good luck with the sales. Mint ones must be few and far between especially from the original purchaser.
|
|
silvermyn
Junior Member
Posts • 1,611
Likes • 781
April 2008
|
Thank you
Jun 2, 2021 21:19:20 GMT 1
via mobile
Thank you, by silvermyn on Jun 2, 2021 21:19:20 GMT 1, They are fantastic. A few years ago I wrote to them on the off chance about a 1/1 blue Faile Dog I bought on eBay trying to authenticate it. It was on some sort of airplane themed background. I really wasn't expecting a response to my email as I knew they were busy guys.
Then I got this long email from one of the Patricks giving a fairly detailed response and congratulating me on the purchase! There was absolutely nothing in it for him to write to me but he took the time and did it anyway.
Wish I still had the piece but I traded it for a Bethlehem Trolleys and I think the other guy got the better deal at the time (yes, the Faile Dog was that good). It eventually ended up with someone on here, I think.
Anyway, great dealings with Faile.
They are fantastic. A few years ago I wrote to them on the off chance about a 1/1 blue Faile Dog I bought on eBay trying to authenticate it. It was on some sort of airplane themed background. I really wasn't expecting a response to my email as I knew they were busy guys.
Then I got this long email from one of the Patricks giving a fairly detailed response and congratulating me on the purchase! There was absolutely nothing in it for him to write to me but he took the time and did it anyway.
Wish I still had the piece but I traded it for a Bethlehem Trolleys and I think the other guy got the better deal at the time (yes, the Faile Dog was that good). It eventually ended up with someone on here, I think.
Anyway, great dealings with Faile.
|
|
silvermyn
Junior Member
Posts • 1,611
Likes • 781
April 2008
|
Shredded Girl with Balloon - One Big Fraud, by silvermyn on May 10, 2021 22:29:57 GMT 1, I would like to add that I just watched 'Star Wars' and it is also a fraud. Did you know that their laser swords are fake? They are not real. They are an illusion to entertain us. THIS IS FRAUD. The beginning of the movie says 'A long time ago, in a Galaxy far far away'- but it is fake! How can we even believe that this is real if the laser swords are fake. There are also no sounds in space.
That's right. In space nobody can hear you scream...
Apologies, wrong sci-fi film.
I would like to add that I just watched 'Star Wars' and it is also a fraud. Did you know that their laser swords are fake? They are not real. They are an illusion to entertain us. THIS IS FRAUD. The beginning of the movie says 'A long time ago, in a Galaxy far far away'- but it is fake! How can we even believe that this is real if the laser swords are fake. There are also no sounds in space. That's right. In space nobody can hear you scream... Apologies, wrong sci-fi film.
|
|
silvermyn
Junior Member
Posts • 1,611
Likes • 781
April 2008
|
Shredded Girl with Balloon - One Big Fraud, by silvermyn on May 10, 2021 18:54:54 GMT 1, The year on the PC certificates isn't always correct and it certainly isn't the point of the certificates, in the first place. The certificates are primarily and mostly meant to certify authenticity of the work - and none of the other information on them is nearly as important. Although it is nice when the year is correct, I do not believe that the year being off has any impact on the value of the work itself. The PC certificates for the AP Girl With Balloon prints have a year of 2004 on them even though they were released and sold (and likely made) over a decade later. Does that make them worth any less? I do not think so. Check the recent auction results for those prints with an "incorrect" year on the PC certificate from a decade earlier to see how much buyers care. Girl With Balloon as an image was made over a decade before these prints were sold and also more than a decade before the "Love is in the Bin" work from Sotheby's sold - and everyone knows this - so it can be seen as correct to have an earlier year on certificates for the later released works of the same image. The stunt at the Sothebys sale was one of the greatest, if not the greatest, stunt pulled by any artist. Instead of applauding it for what it is, worrying about the year on the certificate seems to completely miss the point of it, IMO.
So what's important on a COA...? Everything IMHO.
PC COAs state the Title, Medium, Year, Size, Edition Number and in the Notes whether of not it is signed or unsigned etc. It is a "certification" that all those details are correct. At the bottom of the COA it states the the purpose of the document is to "... certify that the work described above is an 'original work of art' by Banksy."
Granted, the year of production may be the least of a buyer's concerns but PC are the only people that can confirm these details and it is done via the COA. The Year should be accurate, otherwise what's the point of including it?
The year on the PC certificates isn't always correct and it certainly isn't the point of the certificates, in the first place. The certificates are primarily and mostly meant to certify authenticity of the work - and none of the other information on them is nearly as important. Although it is nice when the year is correct, I do not believe that the year being off has any impact on the value of the work itself. The PC certificates for the AP Girl With Balloon prints have a year of 2004 on them even though they were released and sold (and likely made) over a decade later. Does that make them worth any less? I do not think so. Check the recent auction results for those prints with an "incorrect" year on the PC certificate from a decade earlier to see how much buyers care. Girl With Balloon as an image was made over a decade before these prints were sold and also more than a decade before the "Love is in the Bin" work from Sotheby's sold - and everyone knows this - so it can be seen as correct to have an earlier year on certificates for the later released works of the same image. The stunt at the Sothebys sale was one of the greatest, if not the greatest, stunt pulled by any artist. Instead of applauding it for what it is, worrying about the year on the certificate seems to completely miss the point of it, IMO. So what's important on a COA...? Everything IMHO. PC COAs state the Title, Medium, Year, Size, Edition Number and in the Notes whether of not it is signed or unsigned etc. It is a "certification" that all those details are correct. At the bottom of the COA it states the the purpose of the document is to "... certify that the work described above is an 'original work of art' by Banksy." Granted, the year of production may be the least of a buyer's concerns but PC are the only people that can confirm these details and it is done via the COA. The Year should be accurate, otherwise what's the point of including it?
|
|
silvermyn
Junior Member
Posts • 1,611
Likes • 781
April 2008
|
Banksy original “Sale Ends” sells £4.2Million+, by silvermyn on May 10, 2021 14:40:21 GMT 1, Probably one of the most expensive frames in history!
I wonder if it is behind glass...
Probably one of the most expensive frames in history!
I wonder if it is behind glass...
|
|
|
silvermyn
Junior Member
Posts • 1,611
Likes • 781
April 2008
|
Shredded Girl with Balloon - One Big Fraud, by silvermyn on May 10, 2021 13:35:11 GMT 1, Some people will never understand what “no one cares” means. one thing youll never hear, “JPS showed that Banksy guy didnt he”. Attention seeking taken to stalker like levels by JPS. I bet it keeps Banksy awake at night, not. As others have said, yawn.
I don't think he's attention seeking. To me, it seems to be a genuine concern about the certification process. Something we should all be concerned about if we're relying on PC certification?
In this instance it seems to be a simple misunderstanding about what was certified /claimed to be certified and what the true purpose of the alleged certification was.
A lot of effort and detective work which in itself is quite impressive. But failed to recognise that the COA was part of the stunt. The COA, if it existed, was also probably in a frame that shredded it
Personally, if I was at PC, I would have avoided getting involved in this stunt. Maybe state that a COA is pending and leave it at that. PC should IMHO always remain completely above board to protect their reputation from any of these sorts of allegations. I know this isn't possible in reality because Banksy is a bit of a cheeky rascal...
Some people will never understand what “no one cares” means. one thing youll never hear, “JPS showed that Banksy guy didnt he”. Attention seeking taken to stalker like levels by JPS. I bet it keeps Banksy awake at night, not. As others have said, yawn. I don't think he's attention seeking. To me, it seems to be a genuine concern about the certification process. Something we should all be concerned about if we're relying on PC certification? In this instance it seems to be a simple misunderstanding about what was certified /claimed to be certified and what the true purpose of the alleged certification was. A lot of effort and detective work which in itself is quite impressive. But failed to recognise that the COA was part of the stunt. The COA, if it existed, was also probably in a frame that shredded it Personally, if I was at PC, I would have avoided getting involved in this stunt. Maybe state that a COA is pending and leave it at that. PC should IMHO always remain completely above board to protect their reputation from any of these sorts of allegations. I know this isn't possible in reality because Banksy is a bit of a cheeky rascal...
|
|
silvermyn
Junior Member
Posts • 1,611
Likes • 781
April 2008
|
Shredded Girl with Balloon - One Big Fraud, by silvermyn on May 10, 2021 12:05:29 GMT 1, So it's no problem that art is back dated and sold as a 2006 piece? It's 12 year later! A COA is meant to be confirmation from the artist of the period of their career to which the work relates. So, I completely agree with you on that aspect. If the work wasn’t created in 2006, then you cannot “certify” that it dates from 2006.
However, the pre-shedded piece was not meant to be sold as such. The COA (if there actually was one) was never going to be valid or supported by PC in the longer term. They knew that the piece that went onto the rostrum wasn’t going to survive the day. The COA was as much of a marketing tool for the stunt as the pre-shredded piece itself.
Once the piece was shredded, I doubt that anyone was going to fork out that much for a pile of shredded canvas so the COA claim was irrelevant. Unfortunately, the piece didn’t completely self destruct and the high bidder actually wanted it in the end. Hence why you have a COA for the final piece which is dated 2018; the date the piece was completed.
IMHO the original COA claim wasn’t meant to mislead anyone because the pre-shredded piece wasn’t for sale as such. The wording in the auction catalogue about a COA simply became part of the stunt.
PC aren’t in the business of issuing fraudulent documents. Their credibility is a critical part of their role.
So it's no problem that art is back dated and sold as a 2006 piece? It's 12 year later! A COA is meant to be confirmation from the artist of the period of their career to which the work relates. So, I completely agree with you on that aspect. If the work wasn’t created in 2006, then you cannot “certify” that it dates from 2006. However, the pre-shedded piece was not meant to be sold as such. The COA (if there actually was one) was never going to be valid or supported by PC in the longer term. They knew that the piece that went onto the rostrum wasn’t going to survive the day. The COA was as much of a marketing tool for the stunt as the pre-shredded piece itself. Once the piece was shredded, I doubt that anyone was going to fork out that much for a pile of shredded canvas so the COA claim was irrelevant. Unfortunately, the piece didn’t completely self destruct and the high bidder actually wanted it in the end. Hence why you have a COA for the final piece which is dated 2018; the date the piece was completed. IMHO the original COA claim wasn’t meant to mislead anyone because the pre-shredded piece wasn’t for sale as such. The wording in the auction catalogue about a COA simply became part of the stunt. PC aren’t in the business of issuing fraudulent documents. Their credibility is a critical part of their role.
|
|
silvermyn
Junior Member
Posts • 1,611
Likes • 781
April 2008
|
Bast
May 5, 2021 16:50:56 GMT 1
via mobile
Bast, by silvermyn on May 5, 2021 16:50:56 GMT 1, Tragic news. RIP
Tragic news. RIP
|
|
silvermyn
Junior Member
Posts • 1,611
Likes • 781
April 2008
|
Banksy Dream..., by silvermyn on May 5, 2021 16:36:58 GMT 1, Which auction house was it
Which auction house was it
|
|
silvermyn
Junior Member
Posts • 1,611
Likes • 781
April 2008
|
Banksy Grannies condition opinion needed please, by silvermyn on Apr 23, 2021 7:46:41 GMT 1, Timmundo - try Graham Bignell Paper Conservation. His studio is near Old Street Station in London.
It will cost you a couple of hundred but we'll worth it.
Timmundo - try Graham Bignell Paper Conservation. His studio is near Old Street Station in London.
It will cost you a couple of hundred but we'll worth it.
|
|
silvermyn
Junior Member
Posts • 1,611
Likes • 781
April 2008
|
Do Banksy's prints feel dated now?, by silvermyn on Apr 17, 2021 11:28:12 GMT 1, For me, HMV and Pulp Fiction already feel quite dated. The next generation will not have a clue about the HMV stores or the Tarantino film (without looking them up) whereas you don’t face that sort of issue with the likes of Rude Copper or Bomb Middle England. Once you have to hit Google to understand something the message has already been lost IMHO.
I’d even go as far as to say that Kate Moss will soon become dated. Unless something tragic happens to her (sincerely hope it doesn’t) I doubt a lot of young people will instantly recognise her image in 20 years time.
For me, HMV and Pulp Fiction already feel quite dated. The next generation will not have a clue about the HMV stores or the Tarantino film (without looking them up) whereas you don’t face that sort of issue with the likes of Rude Copper or Bomb Middle England. Once you have to hit Google to understand something the message has already been lost IMHO.
I’d even go as far as to say that Kate Moss will soon become dated. Unless something tragic happens to her (sincerely hope it doesn’t) I doubt a lot of young people will instantly recognise her image in 20 years time.
|
|
silvermyn
Junior Member
Posts • 1,611
Likes • 781
April 2008
|
Phillips Art Auctions • New York, Hong Kong & London, by silvermyn on Apr 16, 2021 16:23:35 GMT 1, Love is in the air a/p hammer £250k at that price wtf
Estimate was £300-£500k...
Love is in the air a/p hammer £250k at that price wtf Estimate was £300-£500k...
|
|
silvermyn
Junior Member
Posts • 1,611
Likes • 781
April 2008
|
Phillips Art Auctions • New York, Hong Kong & London, by silvermyn on Apr 16, 2021 16:02:01 GMT 1, GWRB U/S hammer £105k Bird With Grenade hammer £260k Love is in the air a/p hammer £250k
GWRB U/S hammer £105k Bird With Grenade hammer £260k Love is in the air a/p hammer £250k
|
|
|
silvermyn
Junior Member
Posts • 1,611
Likes • 781
April 2008
|
Banksy 'Subject to availability' Christies June 20th, by silvermyn on Apr 15, 2021 22:52:00 GMT 1, Punchy asking price on the Crows piece of €1.3m
Very punchy, considering it's a gift canvas outside of the main edition! Dedicated to "Steve" who would look good in a suit apparently...
I wonder how much Christie's would value one of these from the main edition? I think it was an edition of two, but some on here may know more on that.
Punchy asking price on the Crows piece of €1.3m Very punchy, considering it's a gift canvas outside of the main edition! Dedicated to "Steve" who would look good in a suit apparently... I wonder how much Christie's would value one of these from the main edition? I think it was an edition of two, but some on here may know more on that.
|
|
silvermyn
Junior Member
Posts • 1,611
Likes • 781
April 2008
|
Phillips Art Auctions • New York, Hong Kong & London, by silvermyn on Apr 15, 2021 21:49:16 GMT 1, The Bird with Grenade is quite a small piece (30cm by 30cm) and the image is a crop from the full sized version.
idsb.tmgrup.com.tr/ly/uploads/images/2020/11/27/75305.jpg
There are also some minor condition issues which would have been taken into account when agreeing the estimate.
It’s not part of an edition which, from that period, tended to have the signature tagged along the edge of the canvas. This was a gift from the artist to the present owner. Although not dedicated to the original owner as many gift prints tended to be, some buyers may be put off by its uniqueness.
Having said all that it should still do well considering the value of limited edition prints. One I would happily have on the kids bedroom wall.
The Bird with Grenade is quite a small piece (30cm by 30cm) and the image is a crop from the full sized version. idsb.tmgrup.com.tr/ly/uploads/images/2020/11/27/75305.jpgThere are also some minor condition issues which would have been taken into account when agreeing the estimate. It’s not part of an edition which, from that period, tended to have the signature tagged along the edge of the canvas. This was a gift from the artist to the present owner. Although not dedicated to the original owner as many gift prints tended to be, some buyers may be put off by its uniqueness. Having said all that it should still do well considering the value of limited edition prints. One I would happily have on the kids bedroom wall.
|
|
silvermyn
Junior Member
Posts • 1,611
Likes • 781
April 2008
|
Banksy Zebra Car Parts FOR SALE, by silvermyn on Apr 1, 2021 16:08:28 GMT 1, I'm quite surprised by how much it has rusted. Was it burnt out befote it was painted?
Looking at those wheels, I would say so.
I'm quite surprised by how much it has rusted. Was it burnt out befote it was painted? Looking at those wheels, I would say so.
|
|
silvermyn
Junior Member
Posts • 1,611
Likes • 781
April 2008
|
Banksy Zebra Car Parts FOR SALE, by silvermyn on Apr 1, 2021 15:59:10 GMT 1, When you zoom in on the image of the intact car, the bonnet seems to be completely white. It doesn't look like it was painted at the time the photo was taken.
Seller looking for offers over £50k. Seems quite pricey for a car bonnet that does not appear to correspond to the photograph in Wall and Piece IMHO :/
When you zoom in on the image of the intact car, the bonnet seems to be completely white. It doesn't look like it was painted at the time the photo was taken.
Seller looking for offers over £50k. Seems quite pricey for a car bonnet that does not appear to correspond to the photograph in Wall and Piece IMHO :/
|
|
silvermyn
Junior Member
Posts • 1,611
Likes • 781
April 2008
|
Banksy • Sale Ends Today, by silvermyn on Mar 19, 2021 14:10:02 GMT 1, You don't think that the blank white plate was there for others to sign...? That's the only reason to have it there. I'm pretty sure that Banksy does know how to sign his name without the need to trace a blank plate. The plate would have been part of the design as with other prints, but in this case instead of the double signature it was decided to sign over the plate signature. I just can't see that it was an intentional template for other people to sign. It just looks better signed this way. I also think that if any artist was to get someone else to sign their signature it would be someone that could replicate the signature without the need for a template. The easiest option is to have the artist themselves sign.
Not sure I agree. Banksy doesn't need a blank template to sign his name. He could have done it freehand.
If you look at sepia Morons, that is the way he signed them; freehand below the plate. Colour Trolleys is signed over a blank (white) plate signature. Anyone could have followed the outline of the plate.
You don't think that the blank white plate was there for others to sign...? That's the only reason to have it there. I'm pretty sure that Banksy does know how to sign his name without the need to trace a blank plate. The plate would have been part of the design as with other prints, but in this case instead of the double signature it was decided to sign over the plate signature. I just can't see that it was an intentional template for other people to sign. It just looks better signed this way. I also think that if any artist was to get someone else to sign their signature it would be someone that could replicate the signature without the need for a template. The easiest option is to have the artist themselves sign. Not sure I agree. Banksy doesn't need a blank template to sign his name. He could have done it freehand. If you look at sepia Morons, that is the way he signed them; freehand below the plate. Colour Trolleys is signed over a blank (white) plate signature. Anyone could have followed the outline of the plate.
|
|
silvermyn
Junior Member
Posts • 1,611
Likes • 781
April 2008
|
Banksy • Sale Ends Today, by silvermyn on Mar 19, 2021 11:50:39 GMT 1, When I want to buy a Colour Trolleys way back when they were around the £3k mark a was told by someone at Laz it probably wasn’t actually signed by Banksy himself and it made me hesitant on the purchase. I lost out on the deal. Huge mistake.
Agreed. However, you could probably pick up the unsigned B&W for under £1k at the time and you would have lost out on that too.
Begs the question as to whether it is worth having a signed version if it was signed by anyone other than Banksy himself. Suppose only the true purists will be losing any sleep over it. If the COA states it's signed then most people don't care to look beyond that.
When I want to buy a Colour Trolleys way back when they were around the £3k mark a was told by someone at Laz it probably wasn’t actually signed by Banksy himself and it made me hesitant on the purchase. I lost out on the deal. Huge mistake. Agreed. However, you could probably pick up the unsigned B&W for under £1k at the time and you would have lost out on that too. Begs the question as to whether it is worth having a signed version if it was signed by anyone other than Banksy himself. Suppose only the true purists will be losing any sleep over it. If the COA states it's signed then most people don't care to look beyond that.
|
|
silvermyn
Junior Member
Posts • 1,611
Likes • 781
April 2008
|
Banksy • Sale Ends Today, by silvermyn on Mar 19, 2021 11:10:57 GMT 1, I'm sorry but I've got to challenge this. Why are 'we' more confident that this was signed personally by Banksy than something from say 2004 when he wasn't a big deal? It’s documented that early pow was chaos and that Ben eine and many other employees scribbled his signature. In 2017 things had changed , he signed those prints.
I doubt it myself.
I believe he changed his signature around 2006/2007 because it was not easy to copy his original hand signature without it looking like a forgery. The new format signature is easy to copy.
Anything signed with the new format signature (e.g. POW Grannies, Trolleys, Morons, Applause onwards) is questionable IMHO. Even if they are certified as "signed", the certificate doesn't specify that that the print was signed by Banksy himself.
It's an interesting point that I suppose will never be clarified by PC.
I'm sorry but I've got to challenge this. Why are 'we' more confident that this was signed personally by Banksy than something from say 2004 when he wasn't a big deal? It’s documented that early pow was chaos and that Ben eine and many other employees scribbled his signature. In 2017 things had changed , he signed those prints. I doubt it myself. I believe he changed his signature around 2006/2007 because it was not easy to copy his original hand signature without it looking like a forgery. The new format signature is easy to copy. Anything signed with the new format signature (e.g. POW Grannies, Trolleys, Morons, Applause onwards) is questionable IMHO. Even if they are certified as "signed", the certificate doesn't specify that that the print was signed by Banksy himself. It's an interesting point that I suppose will never be clarified by PC.
|
|
silvermyn
Junior Member
Posts • 1,611
Likes • 781
April 2008
|
Banksy • Sale Ends Today, by silvermyn on Mar 19, 2021 10:53:12 GMT 1, Give me one (1) source for this. It doesn't even have to be that reliable. I am aware of no credible sources (documented or otherwise) that would support an assertion of genuine Ban ksy editioned prints having been signed by someone other than Ban ksy himself. All I've witnessed thus far over the years is the very occasional member making unsubstantiated claims on the topic. But when challenged and asked for evidence (cf. the Sagan standard of ECREE), they tend to go silent. Or they become evasive and deflect, sometimes with awkward attempts at humour. [Misplaced pride will often prevent such individuals from backtracking. And to openly acknowledge they misspoke would of course also require a level of integrity that may be in short supply.]What this amounts to is dishonesty and/or attention-seeking, as opposed to truth-seeking. It is in my view a contemptuous disregard for verification, evidence and truth. That is regrettable on open forums like this one — especially when pure speculation is presented as statements of fact, whether cynically or cluelessly. __________ As for why this happens (leaving aside the explanation of false details being spread to prop up vested interests), my guess is that the reasons include discontentment and insecurity. Both are manifested by an apparent desire to give the appearance of being more in-the-know than is actually the case.
Hey Met.
As you know, the colour Trolleys is a signed edition of 750 prints. All signed in pencil.
When the prints were produced there was a plate signature that was later filled in with a coloured pencil. I know this because I recall seeing one of the prints where somebody had forgotten to write over the plate signature.
Now, putting aside the discussion as to whether Banksy could be arsed to sit there signing 750 prints (and that's in addition to the 100 odd signatures that would have gone on the B&W and Bethlehem editions) why do you suppose a plate signature was used on the 750 colour edition? Is it not fair to assume that the plate was there so that any one of his assistants could help get the prints all signed and in the post in a timely manner?
I don't think that a plate signature would serve any other purpose, but maybe you know more about this sort of stuff.
Cheers.
Give me one (1) source for this. It doesn't even have to be that reliable. I am aware of no credible sources (documented or otherwise) that would support an assertion of genuine Ban ksy editioned prints having been signed by someone other than Ban ksy himself. All I've witnessed thus far over the years is the very occasional member making unsubstantiated claims on the topic. But when challenged and asked for evidence (cf. the Sagan standard of ECREE), they tend to go silent. Or they become evasive and deflect, sometimes with awkward attempts at humour. [Misplaced pride will often prevent such individuals from backtracking. And to openly acknowledge they misspoke would of course also require a level of integrity that may be in short supply.]What this amounts to is dishonesty and/or attention-seeking, as opposed to truth-seeking. It is in my view a contemptuous disregard for verification, evidence and truth. That is regrettable on open forums like this one — especially when pure speculation is presented as statements of fact, whether cynically or cluelessly. __________ As for why this happens (leaving aside the explanation of false details being spread to prop up vested interests), my guess is that the reasons include discontentment and insecurity. Both are manifested by an apparent desire to give the appearance of being more in-the-know than is actually the case. Hey Met. As you know, the colour Trolleys is a signed edition of 750 prints. All signed in pencil. When the prints were produced there was a plate signature that was later filled in with a coloured pencil. I know this because I recall seeing one of the prints where somebody had forgotten to write over the plate signature. Now, putting aside the discussion as to whether Banksy could be arsed to sit there signing 750 prints (and that's in addition to the 100 odd signatures that would have gone on the B&W and Bethlehem editions) why do you suppose a plate signature was used on the 750 colour edition? Is it not fair to assume that the plate was there so that any one of his assistants could help get the prints all signed and in the post in a timely manner? I don't think that a plate signature would serve any other purpose, but maybe you know more about this sort of stuff. Cheers.
|
|