silvermyn
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April 2008
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Banksy Show โข Cut & Run โข Glasgow , by silvermyn on Jun 21, 2023 9:18:26 GMT 1, This was just up the road from the gallery too Finally, the king is back. Fakes that will be appearing on e B a y soon to con the good people out of their hard earned.
These are so poor it's almost comical.
This was just up the road from the gallery too Finally, the king is back. Fakes that will be appearing on e B a y soon to con the good people out of their hard earned. These are so poor it's almost comical.
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silvermyn
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April 2008
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Pest Control COA โข Banksy Print Authentication, by silvermyn on May 16, 2023 16:45:53 GMT 1, God's teeth man! I had a piece in the Sothebyโs auction last month. In the pre-sale it stated they would get the new PC COA and take the charge off the sales proceeds. The print didn't sell and it's back with me now waiting for the market to pick up. It is my personal preference to have the new style PC COA on file so I don't face the same issue the next time I try to sell. Happy? I'd be astonished if you were on here as long as Silky. From your quoting my words back to me to your little x, I'd say you were about 12 years old and this site has been around long before you were out of nappies. Seriously, if you can't be of any help with my question, which you obviously can't, just. naff off. You're wasting my time and you're starting to get on my t#ts. Sotheby's also told me that if I sold with them they would replace my old COA with a new one from Pest control. This was the first I heard of any new COA. Sothebys turned out to be about as equally unmotivated at selling anything as the other auction houses and I didn't sell with them in the end (EDIT:- it won't let me name the auction house for some reason and keeps removing the name but same as previously mentioned Cheers withnail69.
I dropped PC authentications a line to see if they would change my old cert for the new style. I'm sure they wouldn't want to be inundated with such requests but they may just do it an an ad hoc.
I'm expecting a response from them towards the middle of 2025
God's teeth man! I had a piece in the Sothebyโs auction last month. In the pre-sale it stated they would get the new PC COA and take the charge off the sales proceeds. The print didn't sell and it's back with me now waiting for the market to pick up. It is my personal preference to have the new style PC COA on file so I don't face the same issue the next time I try to sell. Happy? I'd be astonished if you were on here as long as Silky. From your quoting my words back to me to your little x, I'd say you were about 12 years old and this site has been around long before you were out of nappies. Seriously, if you can't be of any help with my question, which you obviously can't, just. naff off. You're wasting my time and you're starting to get on my t#ts. Sotheby's also told me that if I sold with them they would replace my old COA with a new one from Pest control. This was the first I heard of any new COA. Sothebys turned out to be about as equally unmotivated at selling anything as the other auction houses and I didn't sell with them in the end (EDIT:- it won't let me name the auction house for some reason and keeps removing the name but same as previously mentioned Cheers withnail69. I dropped PC authentications a line to see if they would change my old cert for the new style. I'm sure they wouldn't want to be inundated with such requests but they may just do it an an ad hoc. I'm expecting a response from them towards the middle of 2025
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silvermyn
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April 2008
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Pest Control COA โข Banksy Print Authentication, by silvermyn on May 14, 2023 22:41:29 GMT 1, Cheers. ""Nothing wrong with my old style PC COA, just personal preference to have the new style."" been on here as long as Silky for the record x God's teeth man! I had a piece in the Sothebyโs auction last month. In the pre-sale it stated they would get the new PC COA and take the charge off the sales proceeds. The print didn't sell and it's back with me now waiting for the market to pick up. It is my personal preference to have the new style PC COA on file so I don't face the same issue the next time I try to sell. Happy?
I'd be astonished if you were on here as long as Silky. From your quoting my words back to me to your little x, I'd say you were about 12 years old and this site has been around long before you were out of nappies.
Seriously, if you can't be of any help with my question, which you obviously can't, just. naff off. You're wasting my time and you're starting to get on my t#ts.
Cheers. ""Nothing wrong with my old style PC COA, just personal preference to have the new style."" been on here as long as Silky for the record x God's teeth man! I had a piece in the Sothebyโs auction last month. In the pre-sale it stated they would get the new PC COA and take the charge off the sales proceeds. The print didn't sell and it's back with me now waiting for the market to pick up. It is my personal preference to have the new style PC COA on file so I don't face the same issue the next time I try to sell. Happy? I'd be astonished if you were on here as long as Silky. From your quoting my words back to me to your little x, I'd say you were about 12 years old and this site has been around long before you were out of nappies. Seriously, if you can't be of any help with my question, which you obviously can't, just. naff off. You're wasting my time and you're starting to get on my t#ts.
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silvermyn
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April 2008
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Pest Control COA โข Banksy Print Authentication, by silvermyn on May 14, 2023 20:43:51 GMT 1, Thanks. It's not a case of picking and choosing. Big auction houses ask for the new format. If you don't have it, they say they will apply for it and take the cost out of the sales proceeds. To save the wait and to lock in the current price, why not apply ahead of any potential sale? sounds like total rubbish....wheres your proof of that ?? It's in my pre-sale correspondence with Sothebyโs, not that I have to prove anything to you.
If you can't be of any help, why don't you do one and waste your mama's time. You've been on here about one year and you're acting like you know 5hit about 5hit when you clearly don't know 5hit.
Thanks. It's not a case of picking and choosing. Big auction houses ask for the new format. If you don't have it, they say they will apply for it and take the cost out of the sales proceeds. To save the wait and to lock in the current price, why not apply ahead of any potential sale? sounds like total rubbish....wheres your proof of that ?? It's in my pre-sale correspondence with Sothebyโs, not that I have to prove anything to you. If you can't be of any help, why don't you do one and waste your mama's time. You've been on here about one year and you're acting like you know 5hit about 5hit when you clearly don't know 5hit.
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silvermyn
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April 2008
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Pest Control COA โข Banksy Print Authentication, by silvermyn on May 14, 2023 19:46:23 GMT 1, Hi. I've read a few pages back but couldn't see the info I'm looking for. Does anyone know what the process is for changing and old style PC COA for the new style PC COA? Also, is there a charge for getting the new style PC COA? I looked on the PC website but couldn't see the relevant information. Thanks. LOL Don't think you get to pick and choose Thanks. It's not a case of picking and choosing. Big auction houses ask for the new format. If you don't have it, they say they will apply for it and take the cost out of the sales proceeds. To save the wait and to lock in the current price, why not apply ahead of any potential sale?
Hi. I've read a few pages back but couldn't see the info I'm looking for. Does anyone know what the process is for changing and old style PC COA for the new style PC COA? Also, is there a charge for getting the new style PC COA? I looked on the PC website but couldn't see the relevant information. Thanks. LOL Don't think you get to pick and choose Thanks. It's not a case of picking and choosing. Big auction houses ask for the new format. If you don't have it, they say they will apply for it and take the cost out of the sales proceeds. To save the wait and to lock in the current price, why not apply ahead of any potential sale?
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silvermyn
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April 2008
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Pest Control COA โข Banksy Print Authentication, by silvermyn on May 14, 2023 12:19:53 GMT 1, Hi. I've read a few pages back but couldn't see the info I'm looking for. Does anyone know what the process is for changing and old style PC COA for the new style PC COA? Also, is there a charge for getting the new style PC COA? I looked on the PC website but couldn't see the relevant information. Thanks. I may be wrong but I think it costs the same as the regular transfer of ownership fee. Is it just a personal preference or is it damaged? Only reason I ask is that I personally couldn't be bothered with the hassle and the wait. Cheers.
Nothing wrong with my old style PC COA, just personal preference to have the new style.
Hi. I've read a few pages back but couldn't see the info I'm looking for. Does anyone know what the process is for changing and old style PC COA for the new style PC COA? Also, is there a charge for getting the new style PC COA? I looked on the PC website but couldn't see the relevant information. Thanks. I may be wrong but I think it costs the same as the regular transfer of ownership fee. Is it just a personal preference or is it damaged? Only reason I ask is that I personally couldn't be bothered with the hassle and the wait. Cheers. Nothing wrong with my old style PC COA, just personal preference to have the new style.
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silvermyn
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April 2008
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Pest Control COA โข Banksy Print Authentication, by silvermyn on May 14, 2023 11:30:08 GMT 1, Hi.
I've read a few pages back but couldn't see the info I'm looking for.
Does anyone know what the process is for changing and old style PC COA for the new style PC COA? Also, is there a charge for getting the new style PC COA?
I looked on the PC website but couldn't see the relevant information.
Thanks.
Hi.
I've read a few pages back but couldn't see the info I'm looking for.
Does anyone know what the process is for changing and old style PC COA for the new style PC COA? Also, is there a charge for getting the new style PC COA?
I looked on the PC website but couldn't see the relevant information.
Thanks.
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silvermyn
Junior Member
Posts โข 1,611
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April 2008
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silvermyn
Junior Member
Posts โข 1,611
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April 2008
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silvermyn
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April 2008
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Heritage Auctions ๐บ๐ฒ, by silvermyn on Mar 23, 2023 12:52:05 GMT 1, Hello all, Thank you met and cemltz and others for your questions (and PMs!) There is nothing untoward here. Single Lane was cleaned after the Phillips auction (it went unsold, which is why it's not listed on the provenance, as is common practice across all auction houses). The owner at the time had concerns that the work was not archival or conserved up to a high standard and would not last the test of time. We feel the condition report reflects this and is accurate. Pest Control and Banksy authorized this conservation (as is common with many other artists, works do go back to the studio), and the work was then sent back to Pest Control to be re-authenticated post-conservation. That is why the Pest Control certificate is dated more recently than the Phillips sale. The Pest Control certificate for this work is dated May 16, 2017. The work is still as close to the artist's intention as possible. If it wasn't, it would not have been granted a PC COA a second time. Thanks and no doubt they'll be many more questions tomorrow. Edited: A further note, as we list in the description Warning Sign was never included in Art in the Streets. Not sure where that came from. It's not clear to me how the damage done to this artwork by the owner at the time can be described as "conservation".
"Cleaning, preserving, and occasionally repairing works of art is known as art conservation, and the people who do this specialised work are called conservators." Cleaning, in this context, to my mind means the removal of dirt that was not part of the original piece of work. Removing dirt that was there when the piece was executed simply confirms that the owner has perminantly altered the piece. This is not conservation work done to the artwork.
You would be right in saying that concervation work (cleaning) was done to the sign itself, as a roadsign, because the cleaning removed dirt that was not originally on the sign when it was first produced. But you're not selling a roadsign, your selling a piece of urban art.
Do you know who did the "conservation" work in this instance? Was the work sent to artist's studio, or was it done by some other unconnected third party? If it didn't go back to the artist's studio, then why mention that this would be the common practice? Was the cleaning done before authorisation by PC and Banksy, or only after prior discussion and authorised by PC and Banksy? A bit more clarity in this regard may be helpful.
Hello all, Thank you met and cemltz and others for your questions (and PMs!) There is nothing untoward here. Single Lane was cleaned after the Phillips auction (it went unsold, which is why it's not listed on the provenance, as is common practice across all auction houses). The owner at the time had concerns that the work was not archival or conserved up to a high standard and would not last the test of time. We feel the condition report reflects this and is accurate. Pest Control and Banksy authorized this conservation (as is common with many other artists, works do go back to the studio), and the work was then sent back to Pest Control to be re-authenticated post-conservation. That is why the Pest Control certificate is dated more recently than the Phillips sale. The Pest Control certificate for this work is dated May 16, 2017. The work is still as close to the artist's intention as possible. If it wasn't, it would not have been granted a PC COA a second time. Thanks and no doubt they'll be many more questions tomorrow. Edited: A further note, as we list in the description Warning Sign was never included in Art in the Streets. Not sure where that came from. It's not clear to me how the damage done to this artwork by the owner at the time can be described as "conservation". "Cleaning, preserving, and occasionally repairing works of art is known as art conservation, and the people who do this specialised work are called conservators." Cleaning, in this context, to my mind means the removal of dirt that was not part of the original piece of work. Removing dirt that was there when the piece was executed simply confirms that the owner has perminantly altered the piece. This is not conservation work done to the artwork. You would be right in saying that concervation work (cleaning) was done to the sign itself, as a roadsign, because the cleaning removed dirt that was not originally on the sign when it was first produced. But you're not selling a roadsign, your selling a piece of urban art. Do you know who did the "conservation" work in this instance? Was the work sent to artist's studio, or was it done by some other unconnected third party? If it didn't go back to the artist's studio, then why mention that this would be the common practice? Was the cleaning done before authorisation by PC and Banksy, or only after prior discussion and authorised by PC and Banksy? A bit more clarity in this regard may be helpful.
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silvermyn
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April 2008
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silvermyn
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April 2008
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Banksy โข frAGILE โข Legacy of War Foundation , by silvermyn on Dec 19, 2022 11:07:54 GMT 1, what is the significance #'s on the side. if it was a used box from some cheap ikea furniture it surely would not have the date of 12/22 "603825161" The number is an interesting part of this piece. It's not particularly clear (no doubt intentionally) which can lead to different searches and different results.
I read the number as starting with 0038, rather than 6038. Ukraine's International dialing code is 0038. The next set of numbers I read as being 25161, but it could also be 25181 or 25101. Either way, seems far too short to be an actual telephone number in Ukraine and I doubt they would put a real number up because about 30 numpties a day would be calling it.
The GPS coordinates for latitude 25 longitude 16.1 (25161) locate the town of Murzuq in Libya, which was bombed in 2020 by the Lybyan national army. Coincidence... ? Maybe but maybe not. All part of the fun!
Out of interest, did anybody do research on the number printed on the Barcode leopard and shark images? There may be a thread on it already but I don't recall ever reading it, if there is one.
what is the significance #'s on the side. if it was a used box from some cheap ikea furniture it surely would not have the date of 12/22 "603825161" The number is an interesting part of this piece. It's not particularly clear (no doubt intentionally) which can lead to different searches and different results. I read the number as starting with 0038, rather than 6038. Ukraine's International dialing code is 0038. The next set of numbers I read as being 25161, but it could also be 25181 or 25101. Either way, seems far too short to be an actual telephone number in Ukraine and I doubt they would put a real number up because about 30 numpties a day would be calling it. The GPS coordinates for latitude 25 longitude 16.1 (25161) locate the town of Murzuq in Libya, which was bombed in 2020 by the Lybyan national army. Coincidence... ? Maybe but maybe not. All part of the fun! Out of interest, did anybody do research on the number printed on the Barcode leopard and shark images? There may be a thread on it already but I don't recall ever reading it, if there is one.
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silvermyn
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Banksy โข Rodeo Girl โข GIFT Print, by silvermyn on Dec 16, 2022 19:44:55 GMT 1, These are fantastic. I just can't get past them being dedicated to someone else ๐คท๐ผโโ๏ธ You could always change your name, if it bothers you that much
These are fantastic. I just can't get past them being dedicated to someone else ๐คท๐ผโโ๏ธ You could always change your name, if it bothers you that much
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silvermyn
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Loaning out artwork, by silvermyn on Dec 8, 2022 18:40:42 GMT 1, One other thing to think about is which legal entity you are dealing with, if the company you are dealing with a part of a group. Make sure you have the parent or the correct operating entity.
Edit - the person signing on behalf of the company should be an authorised signatory. Don't let just any old employee tell you they are authosed to bind the company to a legal agreement.
One other thing to think about is which legal entity you are dealing with, if the company you are dealing with a part of a group. Make sure you have the parent or the correct operating entity.
Edit - the person signing on behalf of the company should be an authorised signatory. Don't let just any old employee tell you they are authosed to bind the company to a legal agreement.
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silvermyn
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Loaning out artwork, by silvermyn on Dec 8, 2022 18:30:39 GMT 1, I suppose it all depends on what the piece is worth.
If you have a high value item, I would definitely put in place a written agreement. Things to detail are the artist, name of piece and condition. Attach high resolution photos as appendices in case you find damage later on. Outline who owns legal title, the period of the loan, what your fee is and that the company is responsible for maintaining the condition of the work. Outline who is insuring the piece and whether the insurance value is to be adjusted each year. Who pays the insurance should be specified. If you're being paid, specify how much and when it gets paid. Get it all in writing. Use a lawyer if it's worth it and ask them to pay all/part of the legal fees, or adjust the rental fee to cover such costs.
You may be happy with the company but any company can go bust or get taken over. You don't want to get into problems later on with a high value item.
If it's not a high value item now, and you think it won't ever become a high value item, then you can be a bit more laid back about it.
I suppose it all depends on what the piece is worth.
If you have a high value item, I would definitely put in place a written agreement. Things to detail are the artist, name of piece and condition. Attach high resolution photos as appendices in case you find damage later on. Outline who owns legal title, the period of the loan, what your fee is and that the company is responsible for maintaining the condition of the work. Outline who is insuring the piece and whether the insurance value is to be adjusted each year. Who pays the insurance should be specified. If you're being paid, specify how much and when it gets paid. Get it all in writing. Use a lawyer if it's worth it and ask them to pay all/part of the legal fees, or adjust the rental fee to cover such costs.
You may be happy with the company but any company can go bust or get taken over. You don't want to get into problems later on with a high value item.
If it's not a high value item now, and you think it won't ever become a high value item, then you can be a bit more laid back about it.
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silvermyn
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Banksy in Kiev, Ukraine ๐บ๐ฆ, by silvermyn on Nov 11, 2022 23:42:24 GMT 1, We're in the run up to Christmas now. Santa's Ghetto in Ukraine this year...?
Come me on, someone had to say it first ๐
We're in the run up to Christmas now. Santa's Ghetto in Ukraine this year...?
Come me on, someone had to say it first ๐
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silvermyn
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Banksy STREET ART, by silvermyn on Nov 7, 2022 11:05:02 GMT 1, Iโm wondering what the scale of this piece is, itโs hard to figure out. What is that iron cross thing for? It's designed to obstruct tanks.
Words words words words words words words words words words.
Iโm wondering what the scale of this piece is, itโs hard to figure out. What is that iron cross thing for? It's designed to obstruct tanks. Words words words words words words words words words words.
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silvermyn
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Banksy STREET ART, by silvermyn on Nov 6, 2022 21:02:19 GMT 1, It ticks a lot of boxes that one. It would be great if it was a Banksy. He's been quiet... almost too quiet.
Apologies if it's common knowledge on here but I had no idea that Mrs B had pro-Russia views.
Did Mr B marry a Russian...? PM if it's not something for a public forum.
It ticks a lot of boxes that one. It would be great if it was a Banksy. He's been quiet... almost too quiet.
Apologies if it's common knowledge on here but I had no idea that Mrs B had pro-Russia views.
Did Mr B marry a Russian...? PM if it's not something for a public forum.
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silvermyn
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silvermyn
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Queen Elizabeth II, by silvermyn on Sept 9, 2022 18:59:59 GMT 1, Nobody has said he supports the Royals. They have, however, featured as an ongoing topic in his body of work over the years.
Nobody has said he supports the Royals. They have, however, featured as an ongoing topic in his body of work over the years.
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silvermyn
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Queen Elizabeth II, by silvermyn on Sept 9, 2022 18:37:24 GMT 1, Not sure Banksy is into the royals. He did the naughty queen mum print and the monkey queen Liz print. Perhaos a monkey Charles is in the works ๐๐ I actually think Banksy is quite into the Royals. He did the Queen Victoria piece and the Monkey Queen. Then we have the "ER' tea towel. Not to mention of course Di faced tenners. May be others but that's all that springs to mind immediately. In fact, I can't think of a single topic that he has been more focused on... apart from rats, that is. He seems very partial to a cheeky rat or two. There's also the Stoke Newington piece which has to be, at least, inspired by the Royals on the balcony at Buckingham Palace.
www.artofthestate.co.uk/london-street-art-2/banksy-street-art/banksy-street-work/banksy-balcony-family-stoke-newington/
Not sure Banksy is into the royals. He did the naughty queen mum print and the monkey queen Liz print. Perhaos a monkey Charles is in the works ๐๐ I actually think Banksy is quite into the Royals. He did the Queen Victoria piece and the Monkey Queen. Then we have the "ER' tea towel. Not to mention of course Di faced tenners. May be others but that's all that springs to mind immediately. In fact, I can't think of a single topic that he has been more focused on... apart from rats, that is. He seems very partial to a cheeky rat or two. There's also the Stoke Newington piece which has to be, at least, inspired by the Royals on the balcony at Buckingham Palace. www.artofthestate.co.uk/london-street-art-2/banksy-street-art/banksy-street-work/banksy-balcony-family-stoke-newington/
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silvermyn
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Queen Elizabeth II, by silvermyn on Sept 9, 2022 17:44:41 GMT 1, Not sure Banksy is into the royals. He did the naughty queen mum print and the monkey queen Liz print. Perhaos a monkey Charles is in the works ๐๐ I actually think Banksy is quite into the Royals. He did the Queen Victoria piece and the Monkey Queen. Then we have the "ER' tea towel. Not to mention of course Di faced tenners. May be others but that's all that springs to mind immediately.
In fact, I can't think of a single topic that he has been more focused on... apart from rats, that is. He seems very partial to a cheeky rat or two.
Not sure Banksy is into the royals. He did the naughty queen mum print and the monkey queen Liz print. Perhaos a monkey Charles is in the works ๐๐ I actually think Banksy is quite into the Royals. He did the Queen Victoria piece and the Monkey Queen. Then we have the "ER' tea towel. Not to mention of course Di faced tenners. May be others but that's all that springs to mind immediately. In fact, I can't think of a single topic that he has been more focused on... apart from rats, that is. He seems very partial to a cheeky rat or two.
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silvermyn
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Banksy at Sothebyโs , by silvermyn on Aug 17, 2022 22:22:51 GMT 1, The ยฃ100k result for Morons Sepia is a real surprise. There was a much rarer version of Morons (signed LA edition) that sold for $53k only last month.
onlineonly.christies.com/s/trespassing/banksy-11/157559
You would have thought the results would have been the other way around :/
The ยฃ100k result for Morons Sepia is a real surprise. There was a much rarer version of Morons (signed LA edition) that sold for $53k only last month. onlineonly.christies.com/s/trespassing/banksy-11/157559You would have thought the results would have been the other way around :/
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silvermyn
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Digard Auctions โข Invader Exclusive Auctions โข PARIS ๐ซ๐ท , by silvermyn on May 10, 2022 17:07:22 GMT 1, Good result for the RC @ โฌ180,000.
Probably a new record for an unsigned Banksy print!
Good result for the RC @ โฌ180,000.
Probably a new record for an unsigned Banksy print!
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silvermyn
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Backdoor Banksy Prints, by silvermyn on May 7, 2022 19:29:27 GMT 1, When I Google "backdoor meaning" I get the following definition "the back door of a building". This is the very definition of the word backdoor. I also see a definition which states "achieved by using indirect or dishonest means" but there is definitely an "or" in that definition. My point is that it is wrong to automatically assume that a backdoor print means that it must have been obtained dishonestly. There is nothing to support that view unless you believe from the background story that there may have been some dishonesty involved. The definition of "backdoor" is not an automatic substitute for the word "dishonest" or "stolen". I know you're going to keep digging in so be my guest. I'm kind of done with this discussion. Happy to agree to disagree. If it's obtained indirectly, then it hasn't been obtained by the original owner/supplier... Nope, I'm not going to keep digging, as I'm enjoying a beer and about to have a BBQ๐ป
Thank Christ! Enjoy.
When I Google "backdoor meaning" I get the following definition "the back door of a building". This is the very definition of the word backdoor. I also see a definition which states "achieved by using indirect or dishonest means" but there is definitely an "or" in that definition. My point is that it is wrong to automatically assume that a backdoor print means that it must have been obtained dishonestly. There is nothing to support that view unless you believe from the background story that there may have been some dishonesty involved. The definition of "backdoor" is not an automatic substitute for the word "dishonest" or "stolen". I know you're going to keep digging in so be my guest. I'm kind of done with this discussion. Happy to agree to disagree. If it's obtained indirectly, then it hasn't been obtained by the original owner/supplier... Nope, I'm not going to keep digging, as I'm enjoying a beer and about to have a BBQ๐ป Thank Christ! Enjoy.
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silvermyn
Junior Member
Posts โข 1,611
Likes โข 781
April 2008
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Backdoor Banksy Prints, by silvermyn on May 7, 2022 19:17:55 GMT 1, In my example, what's dishonest about a studio giving a pizza delivery guy a throw away print instead of a tip? There is no dishonestly there. I can't see why you would automatically associate backdoor prints with dishonestly, theft or anything else untoward. 'In my example, what's dishonest about a studio giving a pizza delivery guy a throw away print instead of a tip?' Nothing at all, if the person gifting that print had the authority to do so. 'I can't see why you would automatically associate backdoor prints with dishonestly, theft or anything else untoward' Because that is the definition of something that is called 'backdoor'. Which is why I said the OP should change the thread title.
When I Google "backdoor meaning" I get the following definition "the back door of a building". This is the very definition of the word backdoor.
I also see a definition which states "achieved by using indirect or dishonest means" but there is definitely an "or" in that definition.
My point is that it is wrong to automatically assume that a backdoor print means that it must have been obtained dishonestly. There is nothing to support that view unless you believe from the background story that there may have been some dishonesty involved. The definition of "backdoor" is not an automatic substitute for the word "dishonest" or "stolen".
I know you're going to keep digging in so be my guest. I'm kind of done with this discussion. Happy to agree to disagree.
In my example, what's dishonest about a studio giving a pizza delivery guy a throw away print instead of a tip? There is no dishonestly there. I can't see why you would automatically associate backdoor prints with dishonestly, theft or anything else untoward. 'In my example, what's dishonest about a studio giving a pizza delivery guy a throw away print instead of a tip?' Nothing at all, if the person gifting that print had the authority to do so. 'I can't see why you would automatically associate backdoor prints with dishonestly, theft or anything else untoward' Because that is the definition of something that is called 'backdoor'. Which is why I said the OP should change the thread title. When I Google "backdoor meaning" I get the following definition "the back door of a building". This is the very definition of the word backdoor. I also see a definition which states "achieved by using indirect or dishonest means" but there is definitely an "or" in that definition. My point is that it is wrong to automatically assume that a backdoor print means that it must have been obtained dishonestly. There is nothing to support that view unless you believe from the background story that there may have been some dishonesty involved. The definition of "backdoor" is not an automatic substitute for the word "dishonest" or "stolen". I know you're going to keep digging in so be my guest. I'm kind of done with this discussion. Happy to agree to disagree.
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silvermyn
Junior Member
Posts โข 1,611
Likes โข 781
April 2008
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Backdoor Banksy Prints, by silvermyn on May 7, 2022 18:46:25 GMT 1, Agreed. However, I think the point stands. Backdoor is not the same as stolen. Many backdoor stories cannot be confirmed and this is why these prints linger in the gray area forever. Ownership of prints can be verified through PC and that is a way to identify stolen prints. It all comes down to how you define 'backdoor'. To me, backdoor means it was obtained through dishonest means. That's why I said the op should change the title of the thread to fit his story. Whole thing is a clusterfuck for sure and I suppose that is why we should be thankful for what PC do, as they don't have an easy task.
In my example, what's dishonest about a studio giving a pizza delivery guy a throw away print instead of a tip?
There is no dishonestly there. I can't see why you would automatically associate backdoor prints with dishonestly, theft or anything else untoward.
Agreed. However, I think the point stands. Backdoor is not the same as stolen. Many backdoor stories cannot be confirmed and this is why these prints linger in the gray area forever. Ownership of prints can be verified through PC and that is a way to identify stolen prints. It all comes down to how you define 'backdoor'. To me, backdoor means it was obtained through dishonest means. That's why I said the op should change the title of the thread to fit his story. Whole thing is a clusterfuck for sure and I suppose that is why we should be thankful for what PC do, as they don't have an easy task. In my example, what's dishonest about a studio giving a pizza delivery guy a throw away print instead of a tip? There is no dishonestly there. I can't see why you would automatically associate backdoor prints with dishonestly, theft or anything else untoward.
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silvermyn
Junior Member
Posts โข 1,611
Likes โข 781
April 2008
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Backdoor Banksy Prints, by silvermyn on May 7, 2022 18:13:02 GMT 1, Backdoor prints are a grey area. Gift prints, stolen prints and test prints are in a black and white area. In the grey area of backdoor prints you have prints that escaped via the back door of the print house or the artists studio. The printer may have had a misprint that wound up in a skip, or the studio trimmed off too much from a print and gave it to the pizza delivery guy who happend to see it and said "you're not going to throw that out are you?" instead of a tip. That's why the story is important. If the story can be backed up then you know where you stand. You're in the backdoor grey area. If the story turns out to be BS then you may well be in the stolen black and white area. If you find a print like this and scribble "Banksy" and a heart on the front, or the words "Test print", then you're in the black and white area of fraud. It is a grey area for sure and no matter what the story is, if it can't be backed up then it's just that, a story. You've also got the issue of known dodgy goings on with some of the employees at pow selling non authorised editions. Problem is, at the time they were made, these prints outside of the edition would have had little to no value, but potentially maybe a couple of ยฃk's now.
Agreed. However, I think the point stands. Backdoor is not the same as stolen.
Many backdoor stories cannot be confirmed and this is why these prints linger in the gray area forever. Ownership of prints can be verified through PC and that is a way to identify stolen prints.
Backdoor prints are a grey area. Gift prints, stolen prints and test prints are in a black and white area. In the grey area of backdoor prints you have prints that escaped via the back door of the print house or the artists studio. The printer may have had a misprint that wound up in a skip, or the studio trimmed off too much from a print and gave it to the pizza delivery guy who happend to see it and said "you're not going to throw that out are you?" instead of a tip. That's why the story is important. If the story can be backed up then you know where you stand. You're in the backdoor grey area. If the story turns out to be BS then you may well be in the stolen black and white area. If you find a print like this and scribble "Banksy" and a heart on the front, or the words "Test print", then you're in the black and white area of fraud. It is a grey area for sure and no matter what the story is, if it can't be backed up then it's just that, a story. You've also got the issue of known dodgy goings on with some of the employees at pow selling non authorised editions. Problem is, at the time they were made, these prints outside of the edition would have had little to no value, but potentially maybe a couple of ยฃk's now. Agreed. However, I think the point stands. Backdoor is not the same as stolen. Many backdoor stories cannot be confirmed and this is why these prints linger in the gray area forever. Ownership of prints can be verified through PC and that is a way to identify stolen prints.
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