Tactics of true politicians. Using power for personal gain at the expense of the law abiding citizen. Then going incognito while your crew try to brush the event under the carpet swerving the actual issue.

everyone just rides him is all! he saw a chance to make a good deal is all! I just think people are mad and jealous they didn't get it? Am i Right? Who really cares? WTF is a Guardian anyway? s**t if they made the biggest hustler a Guardian who's fault is that? I just know FR has always been golden to me! he has gotten me prints for cost before where he could of flipped them for many pounds.....

In my dealings with FR he has been an angel and a top gent is all I'm saying? Peeps are jealous that they didn't scoop this OG up is the real story going on here! Am I right? He sold me a Sandra print the day of the drop when they were flipping for 3X!!! So he is a good man and a bad man according to everyone else! I just don't know why or who made him a Guardian and thought he was gonna be an alter boy! He saw his chance and grabbed it and you can't knock the hustle as we all do it! We all flip to buy the stuff we like. My hat goes off to FR because I RESPECT his HUSTLE AND HIS GAME! YA'LL just mad he got the OG! That's what this is all about!

I'll just leave this here for my Boyfriend FR! EVERYONE NEEDS TO STOP RIDING HIS DICK!!




you know something about COCAINE?

Only interesting sentence for me is "WTF is a guardian anyway?". That's a good question and I 'll be happy to know the answer. For me a guardian is like a protector but protecting what?
Again, Sandra Chevrier is not my cup of tee (even what she does looks nice)

Is it possible unclegrandpa and FR are one and the same??

I have thought the same for a while now and after reading his last few posts, I think it is confirmed he is FR.

Coach, I completely agree with what you say and I would not want to be a guardian for this very reason. However, the role of a guardian should not be misused and a lot of forum members feel that this has been the case.

Sorry if one Forum Guardian felt I was "causing trouble", I only voiced my concern because I actually do care about this place and its integrity ! My only intention was to highlight what I strongly believe was a conflict of interest from FЯ being a Forum Guardian and derailing the Thread only to make his purchase cheaper ! The fact that so many other good forumites have raised their voices as well actually is a great thing, it shows THEY DO CARE ABOUT THIS PLACE, not everybody has left for the other one (only) yet ;-) Forum Guardians should be happy with that...

Some (rightly so) applaude FЯ's (genius) machiavelic tactics and dent confirmed he's happy with the price he's got, so the price achieved is not the issue here, it's a matter of principles so that newbies with higher expectations (than dent seems to have) towards this place don't get abused in the same way in the future.... I think it's fair to say a lot of people here (including me) have no problem AT ALL (not that it would matter anyway) with FЯ being an entertaining member of this Forum, the issue started the day he put himself forward to become a Forum Guardian with clearly an agenda in his mind ! As cmodart clearly put it ("FG's opinion becomes more valid than the community in the eyes of those that are most susceptible to influence") so that's exactly what went wrong here, if you believe one second that FЯ was not fully aware of what he was doing then I'm afraid you're very naive...

When I asked for Forum Guardians' opinions on all this it was not to blame any of them (we all agree it's a tough / time-consuming task) but only to genuinely ask for their views on what I personally considered something really disturbing which prevents this place from being the better place it could be. Harveyn worded very carefully his stand on this but it was crystal clear and more than good enough for me... I also fully agree with @coach when he says "I do think that the guardians should be a little more careful about liking each other's posts, when something controversial is being discussed", the discussion here was quite constructive and as I said, something VERY POSITIVE came out of it :the obvious fact that A LOT OF PEOPLE still do care about this place and its integrity. I might stick around for a little longer for that reason ;-)

Just to be clear 11, I don't think you personally or dreadnatty etc are to blame here.. 
I appreciate that being a Forum Guardian can be a bit of a thankless task, and you are all good guys with largely the same passions and interests as myself, and one of the best things about the forum is that it brings people with shared interests together. 

Its simply a case of 1 FG abusing his position. Whether the seller in this case is a "newbie" or not doesn't really matter, a FG still used their authority to manipulate a sales thread for the sole purpose of personal gaid/greed.

A - this is clearly not fair either on the forum or in any walk of life.

B - Forum Guardians should be just as accountable as other forum members, not allowed to do what they want, with other FGs seemingly turning a blind eye, whether well intentioned or a genuine oversight or not. 

There should be a code of conduct for FGs, and members should have been notified when the rules where updated what those are, and the steps to complain if issues arise. Do we email Dan who is hardly on here these days and no doubt missed the whole thing? Or do we raise issues with other FGs who are on here more regularly and in a position to do something? It seems fair to me that a FG who steps way out of line should have their FG status temporarily removed at the very least. That way being accountable might prevent future misuse of authority, and any 'bad apples' would be weeded out from the largely good group of FGs who have the forums best interests at heart.

Anyway, thats my last comment on the issue. If this gets swept under the carpet, then it will happen again and the forum will be a worse place for it. Personally i'm going to take some time out from here and hope things sort themselves out. I'm uncomfortable being a passive supporter of such low ethics.

"Perhaps we 're all FR" - indeed, my last line about Dent being FR was sarcastic (sorry I forgot the smiley) in order to emphasize the lack of transparency and fact that this kind of tactics is not new.

As for the failing, I wrote "they failed to act, by at least notifying FR". If you want to be more specific about you in particular, then let me say I read what you said early and agree partly with it (you aren't here to do the police and have other occupations). 

But I return the question to you, instead of making ambiguous posts about Guardians and evading the main issue, why don't you just acknowledge that it was just wrong (oh yes you did and found nothing wrong)

Well then, end of story... because, at the end, FR will never get it, Dent is gone and having FR as guardians is a joke !

Peace

My generic response to the questions being raised of Guardian comments or not and unified thoughts or not is as follows.

In the real world I run my own business. As a Board of Directors we sit debating the issues and problems we face. Often there is no unanimous decision and it can feel like we spend more time in conflict management mode than core competency mode. That said the absolute 100% rule is that we as a Board when the decision is made show a unified approach.

For me this is not the real world but also we must all remember actions do have consequences. I do not believe as forum guardians that we need to have a unified opinion, speak as a collective or speak at all unless it is to enforce rules set out in the T&Cs by Administration. The problem with all rules is when an element of subjectivity has to be applied. The "Grey".

In this particular incident I believe the element of grey appears to centre round "cautionary advice that might or might not have influenced events with respect to the seller and potential buyers" and "trolling with respect to a significant number of posts from start to finish".

So if rules have been clearly broken we as Guardians should have a unified approach/opinion. If the said issue is grey with respect to this matter then I believe it’s up to each Guardian to comment or not comment accordingly. Said comments by definition become personal opinions.

The seller doesnt HAVE to sell it for that price, do they? And if they want to, maybe they need the loot. If there wasnt a higher bid, so be it. If they feel wronged, throw it on ebay for a 5 day auction and post on Expresso, it'll go quick.

Why would anybody throw £1850 to a forum member with 2 posts when the sales thread started and where you are unable to meet up due to location to complete the transaction. To much dodgy shit happening on this sales thread especially by one of the forum Guardians. Was always a pathetic idea to have them as some of them don't really help the smooth running of the forum more about hyping artists they have in their own collection.

Time to break silence. As I have said earlier, I had not in my wildest imagination thought that my first sale here would end up in a discussion like this.

There have been some points that might be good that is being discussed, but in my opinion there have also been some finger pointing , condescending talk, and other posts that are not much better than what started this whole discussion.

While this has been happening , FR and I have had a civilized and constructive discussion on PM, and chosen not to comment on the thread. We have arrived at a consensus in terms for this sale that both are happy with. No hard feelings.

I have received some PM from people who have been commentating on this thread and from some of the FG, but chose not to respond while I discussed with FR. I know that FR have received some PM's as well, and my impression is that some of them have been out of line. I don't know if he have answered.

I think that bout FR and me have learned something from this, but on different levels. I hope that the forum can leave this sale behind, and instead look forward. It might be a good idea to have a discussion on how people think this forum should work. But then it should be forward looking discussion, not pointing to historical disputes/incidents or specific persons historical behavior. Keeping this kind of discussions polite and to the point could have helped this forum to move forward in the right direction.


 

The bigger problem is that it was a forum guardian writing this manipulative garbage.

Has there been any resolution to this?